Join Robbie Stelling and Rich Mennear on the latest episode of the Poolie Podcast. Robbie and Rich dissect Hartlepool's late defeat against Wealdstone, preview the clash against Woking and all the latest transfer and injury news.
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00:30Hello, and welcome to the latest Pooley podcast with me, Richard Muneer, and our Hacker United
00:38writer here at the Hackpool Mail, Robbie Stirling. How are you, Robbie?
00:41I'm very well, thanks, Rich. Lots of traveling for everyone connected with Pools over the
00:45next month or so, but obviously I'm never too disappointed about being back down south,
00:50so yeah, everything's a good thing.
00:52Yeah, it's good that the games are back on after 18 days, I think. It was good, certainly
00:57longer than two weeks, wasn't it? Quite a lengthy spell without any football. So, plenty
01:01to talk about on this week's Pooley podcast, so we'll get into the draw at the weekend
01:06shortly. We'll obviously discuss the injuries to Mancini and Gray, which were pretty significant
01:11blows I think, Robbie, given what they had individually at the team and also different
01:15dynamic and pace and stuff, and we'll also reflect on the latest transfer news. Obviously
01:20no transfer window in the National League, but there's obviously still a lot going on
01:25on that front, and Lenny Lawrence provided an update at the weekend as well, so we'll
01:28have the latest on that front. So, plenty to discuss. I suppose, Robbie, we should probably
01:32kick off, because the last time we did this was a couple of weeks ago, was just to reflect
01:38briefly on the incident at the training ground last week. The training ground bust up that
01:42I'm sure all the Pools fans will have seen on social media, and Lenny Lawrence reflected
01:46on it as well. It is pretty much press conference on Friday, as you'd expect, trying to draw
01:52a line under it. Move quickly on. It says that it had been settled between the two plays
02:00involved, but not a great look, however, Robbie.
02:03No, it's a funny one, Rich. I mean, when we last spoke, which was obviously just off the
02:08back of the really impressive win over Oldham, maybe the best performance of the campaign
02:14to date, I think two of the things that we really praised were the team's spirit and
02:20the team's strength and depth, and you fast forward a couple of weeks and all of a sudden
02:23those are two of the things that have been really called into question. Obviously, a
02:28training ground bust up, might you say, is certainly not a good look, and it's a bad
02:32situation made worse, isn't it, really, by the fact that it emerges online, as Lenny
02:37Lawrence was at pains to say, and as I think a lot of fans agreed with, these kind of things
02:44probably do happen up and down the country. You know, these guys are professional athletes.
02:49They are in a high-pressure situation. They want to do the best for their team, but obviously
02:56it's not something that you like to see. I mean, I think we probably can put it down
03:01to a relatively isolated incident. I mean, we've often spoken about the camaraderie and
03:07the spirit in the team, and I don't feel like that's going to have changed overnight just
03:11because of a coming together between two players. We obviously get to spend quite a bit of time
03:17in and around the group, both on match days and in midweek when we go to Maiden Castle
03:21for the press conferences, and you certainly still get that sense that the mood in the
03:26camp is generally more optimistic, more positive, more open and honest than it was earlier in
03:34the campaign. I think Poole's probably dealt with the situation from the point that it
03:39emerged online about as well as they possibly could have done. I think Lenny Lawrence spoke
03:45pretty openly, pretty candidly. Obviously, there were some things he chose not to give
03:50away. He decided not to name the two players involved, but he did go into a fair amount
03:56of detail about the incident, and he also said that the club had dealt with it internally,
04:03although again, he declined to go into too much detail about how exactly they had dealt
04:09with it. But I think fans probably appreciated the fact that the manager was willing to face
04:14up to the issue. I mean, we were told when we arrived at Maiden Castle on Friday morning
04:19that Lenny was prepared for any kind of questions. He was happy to talk about the incident, answer
04:25any questions we might have on it, and I think that was good. I think that supporters will
04:29have appreciated the openness of the manager. I mean, if there was a manager that you maybe
04:35wanted at the helm to deal with this kind of situation, it would be someone like Lenny
04:40Lawrence, 77 years old. I think he's been in management for around 46 years, first job at
04:45Plymouth as caretaker in 1978. So he's probably seen a lot of these kind of incidents throughout
04:52his long and distinguished career, and will probably be pretty well placed to deal with it.
04:57I think from a Pools perspective, what they've really tried to do is not make a mountain out
05:03of a molehill. They've addressed the incident, and now they're looking to move on. Of course,
05:07the best way that they could have moved on would have been if they'd won on Saturday at
05:12Wildsdon. That felt like a winnable game. Obviously, the injuries, which we'll touch on
05:16a bit later, certainly didn't help, but it wasn't a particularly good performance. So it was a
05:21disappointing end to a difficult week for Pools, but they'll certainly be hoping that they can
05:26move on and start to put this challenging incident behind them now.
05:30Yeah, I guess incidents like this, I'm sure, happen a fair amount.
05:33Yeah.
05:34On the ground, maybe not to that extent, but yeah, the fact that it was then leaked
05:38on social media and added a complication for Pools. But as you say, the players have apparently
05:43moved on, so we shall as well. So yeah, just going on to the game then, Robbie. Obviously,
05:50a few forced changes in terms of the team and some of the players available. We might as well
05:55touch on the injury situation first. So no Joe Gray and no Mancini, both out for, I think,
06:01several weeks. And Lenny indicated afterwards that they'll probably, well, they will have to
06:06try and add to the squad. I think you referred to loan signings, though, which
06:10may come as a slight disappointment for Pools fans, although we won't be surprised at that,
06:13given recent transfer business this time of year and the past has often been loan signings.
06:19Just to add on the injury blow to the pair of them to start with, and then how much business
06:24do you expect to see Pools do in terms of bringing in some recruitment to the team?
06:29Yeah, I mean, big blows, both of them. I think that was, we anticipated that they would be
06:36significant blows, but it was laid bare for all to see on Saturday. I mean, last season,
06:41one of the biggest complaints often levelled against Pools was the lack of pace in the side.
06:46Joe Gray was really the only player who was able to inject the pace into the team last season,
06:52and they have added a bit more speed to their ranks this season. Adam Campbell's pretty quick.
06:57Obviously, he's been out injured as well. I know Lenny Lawrence is hoping to have him
07:01back in contention to play potentially at least some part against Woking this weekend. Luke
07:06Charman as well is really pretty quick, especially when he gets going. He can be difficult to stop,
07:12and he was back in the side after missing the game against Oldham on New Year's Day
07:17through personal reasons. But nonetheless, they are really big blows. I mean, ironically,
07:22just when we were arriving at the ground, I was chatting to a couple of people and I said,
07:26well, they've had pretty good luck with injuries so far this season in general,
07:30and they're going to need to have some more luck. They're going to need to be able to keep most of
07:34their squad fully fit if they're to challenge for the playoffs. And lo and behold, an hour later,
07:39we were met with the news that both Gray and Mancini were set for considerable spells.
07:46On the sidelines, Joe Gray's one is something that's been in the pipeline for a while. He's
07:50been playing through the pain for a fair while now. I saw Joe after the game against York in
07:57November, which was the first game that Anthony Lindbergh and Gavin Skelton had
08:01been in the dugout for. And I knew then he was struggling. And it's one of those things that
08:06the longer it goes on without being addressed, the worse it's going to get. And it was something
08:11that needed an operation for it to get better. So in the long term, that's obviously going to
08:15be a positive thing, both for Pools and for Joe Gray. But in the short to medium term,
08:21it's going to be a big loss. He hasn't perhaps replicated the electric form that we saw towards
08:27the back end of last season under Kevin Phillips. I think he scored 10 goals in his final 22
08:31appearances last season, had a really fast start to the season as well, scored a brace at Woking,
08:36scored the winning goal later on against Tamworth. And then sort of tailed off a little bit. I mean,
08:42he was one of a number of players who started to struggle a bit under Darren Song, lost his place
08:46in the side for a couple of weeks, even if that was a bit of a bizarre decision. But they were
08:50just signs he was starting to get back to his best form. He was excellent against Gateshead
08:55on Boxing Day. He scored a lovely goal from the edge of the box, bending an effort into the top
08:59corner. And he was really good again against Oldham. One of the only players who was probably
09:05better than Joe Gray on New Year's Day was Anthony Mancini, who was set for his fourth
09:10National League start in a row, perhaps benefited somewhat from Adam Campbell's recent absence. But
09:15he'd taken his chance with both hands. And it's such a shame for Mancini. Clearly, physically,
09:23he is a little bit temperamental. I mean, injuries struck him down at the beginning of last season
09:28when he was in a blistering vein of form, became briefly one of the National League's hottest
09:33properties. And there were signs that he was just getting back to those sort of levels.
09:38I mean, he ran the show against Oldham. He was absolutely superb, scored the winning goal and
09:43really gave an in-form latex back line. All sorts of problems. And I think if you look on Saturday,
09:51they really missed Gray's pace and they really missed Mancini's invention. I mean, for the first
09:57time in a long time, Poole's looked a little bit one-paced and pedestrian at times. Luke Charman
10:04didn't really get into the game. He obviously hadn't played for more than three weeks. So
10:10perhaps he's got to get a bit of time to get up to speed. I'm a big fan of Luke Charman's. I think
10:14he's a real asset to the side. Kuzengun Luangwa made his first start on the opposite flank and
10:20didn't really make the most of his opportunity. He turned 34 last month. Doesn't really seem to have
10:26that explosive pace that he was once fairly reliant on, that once made him such an impressive
10:32player in the Championship and even in the Premier League. There was one moment when he took
10:38the ball past Enzio Boldovine in the first half, but then he didn't have that raw acceleration to
10:45make the most of the initial move. And so he was pretty quiet. And when you've got a player like
10:52Anthony Mancini, he's one of those. He carries the ball so well and he's always liable to make
10:57something happen, even in a game like the one we saw on Saturday, where chances certainly from
11:02a Poole's perspective are relatively few and far between. He's that sort of archetypal,
11:07bums-off-seats type player, isn't he? And it's interesting because obviously he didn't feature
11:13that regularly in the first half of the season. He made a lot of appearances off the bench, but his
11:18starts were very limited. Suddenly it feels like Poole's are really going to miss him. And obviously
11:23a player of Mancini's quality, you're always going to miss someone like him. Joe Gray, we expect
11:29to be out for around four to six weeks. That's what Manny Lawrence told us on Saturday. I think
11:34with Mancini, there's a little bit more confusion because Manny, when we spoke to him on Saturday,
11:40said he was hoping to have him back before Joe Gray. I think he said around four weeks. But
11:45if you look on the club website, the club statement said months. I mean, you never quite
11:50know with someone like Mancini. Obviously, he's only 23, but he's had so many injuries.
11:55Poole certainly won't want to rush him back, as they did a bit towards the end of last season.
12:00And he had a setback that kept him out for even longer. So perhaps it remains to be seen in terms
12:06of Mancini. But whatever the case, Poole's are going to need to look to add. I think if they're
12:10serious about challenging for the playoffs, then they're going to need to add probably more than
12:16one player. I know Manny said that funds have been made available for a loan signing, and that
12:21frustrated some fans because of the fact that I think, first of all, it was potentially only a
12:28loan signing. Second of all, because he spoke in the singular, I think Poole would like to add a
12:34couple in an ideal world. Obviously, Adam Campbell is going to be coming back. So that will be a big
12:40boost. The chairman, Raj Singh, was only a couple of rows in front of us on Saturday. So whether
12:45what he saw on Saturday, because it was probably the worst Poole's have been under Lanny Lawrence,
12:50to be honest, since the Maidenhead game, his first game in charge when he'd only had
12:5448 hours or so to work with the squad, whether what he saw on Saturday potentially might change
13:00his mind. I understand that Poole's are, if possible, going to try and look to bring in more
13:06than one player. I mean, certainly they need to bolster their attacking ranks a little bit.
13:12They obviously lost Rashawn Mathurin, who I know was only in and out. He's gone back
13:16to Crystal Palace. Nathan Asinwe, who made a big difference at the start of
13:20Lanny Lawrence's tenure. He's signed for League Two leaders Walsall on loan. So that's another
13:25one that won't be returning. I think a little bit of pace, not just to bolster the starting 11,
13:31obviously, in the absence of Joe Gray, who's been a really regular starter, but also to
13:35strengthen the bench. I mean, you looked at the bench on Saturday. They had a couple of
13:40defenders in Billy Sastavius and Campbell Darcy, who's obviously only a teenager, just come back
13:45from a loan spell. Kian Foreman, 17-year-old striker, who played 10 minutes in the FA Trophy,
13:51but we haven't seen anything of him other than that. Jack Hunter, Greg Sloggett, two generally
13:55defensive-minded midfielders. You looked at the bench on Saturday and you felt like there wasn't
14:01a lot Manny could do to change the game in a positive sense for Poole's in truth. Obviously,
14:07the return of Adam Campbell is going to mean that they do have one more option from the bench,
14:11whether that's Campbell initially or whether someone like N'Gouar N'Gouar drops out
14:16and goes back onto the bench remains to be seen. But yeah, I mean, it doesn't just take a strong
14:22side to win promotion from the National League. I think it takes a strong squad as well, especially
14:27given the relentless schedule Poole's have got so much travelling to do over the next month or so.
14:32And I think a lot of supporters are going to be watching on with real interest to see
14:38perhaps just how ambitious the club are in their minds. I think they will feel that Poole's need
14:42a couple of new additions if they're going to seriously challenge for the playoff places,
14:46because bear in mind, they've still got plenty of ground or not plenty of ground,
14:49but they've still got some ground to make up their four points adrift of the top seven.
14:52Now a number of teams have got games in hand on them, albeit Poole's have got games in hand on
14:58a couple of sides like Somerhale Moors, who are currently occupying the last remaining playoff
15:04place. But yeah, I think Poole's will need to bring in certainly one, but ideally a couple.
15:09And I think the club will try and do that as well, Rich.
15:12Fortunate to get a draw on the end on Saturday, I think, Smith made a few good saves there.
15:16Very fortunate. I mean, it's disappointing to concede a goal late on, but it was no less than
15:22Wildstone deserved, to be honest. I mean, the first half was a bit of a non-event, in truth.
15:27Gary Medin and Manny Disrui combined won a few times and Medin, that's six goals in six games
15:32now. Just that striker's instinct, that movement that he's got, that's one of the reasons he's
15:36scored goals at a much higher level. But second half, it was all about Adam Smith. He produced
15:42a string of fantastic saves, denied Sam Ashford a couple of times, denied Callum Cisse, who had
15:48a really good game for Wildstone in midfield, and then denied Adrian Mariapa, who is still going at
15:5438 years old. He came on at halftime and had a point-blank header remarkably saved by Smith.
16:00So, had it not been for some goalkeeping heroics, yeah, Pools could well not have been going back
16:05to the North East empty-handed, I think. And then, like you say, another busy week,
16:10walking on Saturday, and then Barnet was obviously rearranged for the 28th week today, next Tuesday,
16:17after the game fell foul of the icy conditions a week before last. So, yeah, interesting couple
16:23of games coming up. How do you see those two going? And hopefully there'll be another couple
16:27of additions into the squad prior to then. Yeah, well, I think Pools need to win on Saturday,
16:33Rich. I mean, Lenny Lawrence has said many times that good teams, promotion-winning teams,
16:39playoff contenders, you look at their home form, and that's often where the difference is made.
16:46Pools have started to show signs that they are improving at home. I mean, towards the end of
16:51the Darren Sarnley era, the Prestige Group stadium became a very difficult place to play
16:56for Pools. Obviously, a large part of that was down to the animosity between
16:59the fans and Sarn at the time. And I think the game on New Year's Day was probably the best
17:07atmosphere we've had all season. I think the fans have warmed to not just Lenny Lawrence,
17:12but they've warmed to Anthony Lindbergh and Gavin Skelton as well. I think that they can see
17:17the differences that the three of them are trying to make. I think that they can see the fact that
17:24they've all really bought into not just the club, but the town and the people as well.
17:29I think Lindbergh's got that sort of raw passion that inevitably has made him popular on the
17:37terraces, and Skelton's been a really nice sort of foil to that as well with his slightly more
17:43understated approach. But Pools will need to win their home games, and they'll need to win
17:50on Saturday. I think that would turn a sort of disappointing point at Wilston into a fairly
17:55decent one. It certainly won't be easy, though. It's not a good time to play working. I think
18:01six unbeaten since they appointed Neil Ardley. He's obviously a really experienced manager,
18:10especially at this level, and seems to be getting the best out of his side. I mean,
18:16they only drew one all with Ebbsfleet last time out, which obviously isn't a great result.
18:20Ebbsfleet have struggled massively this season, and they've got loads of travelling as well. I
18:25think their next four away games are all on the road, so that'll be difficult. Look,
18:30it's a working side in good form, and a poolside perhaps in a slightly difficult
18:35moment. But I still think that this is a game winning Lawrence, and his side will
18:39need to win. And as you say, Rich, they'll be hopeful that they might have at least one, maybe
18:43two new additions in by Saturday, and then obviously you've got to go to Barnett in midweek.
18:49I mean, that's going to be extremely difficult. It'll be much easier if they can win on Saturday,
18:53because it takes some of the pressure off. And let's not forget, Poole's really managed
18:58to frustrate Barnett back in November. B's boss Dean Brennan was really frustrated after
19:04that goal was drawn, albeit perhaps a couple of decisions didn't go their way
19:08as well. But that'll be a massive challenge. But if you can win on Saturday,
19:12things are going to start to be looking up again. Poole's can start to put a challenging few days
19:17behind them, and it takes a bit of the pressure off ahead of a really difficult midweek trip.
19:22Yeah, like you say, if they manage to beat Woken, then that would be, what, seven points
19:25from the nine for the last three games, so not an unreasonable points tally. Poole's
19:31rather currently 13th in the league. It can be quite deceptive, can't it, because there is
19:35often in the National League, there are so many teams who have games in hand,
19:39so you think, oh, Poole's aren't too far off the playoff situation, but in reality,
19:44the likes of, I think, Rochdale have only played 23. Bolden 24, so there's certainly a few teams
19:49that have got a few games in hand over Poole's and their rivals. But yeah, we shall see. A win
19:54on Saturday would certainly help boost morale. And then, yeah, Barnett next Tuesday, so we shall see.
20:01As I say, there's no transfer window in the National League, so Poole's do have scope to
20:06continue to add to the squad, but you do feel that if there weren't the drop points on Saturday
20:11and it was to become quite clear in the next week or so that this could just be a mid-table season,
20:17then do you think that investment would still be there in terms of new signings,
20:20or do you think they would ease off a little bit? I think all I'm trying to say is it's a
20:27crucial fortnight, because if they get a couple of good players in and win a couple of games,
20:32then it could really boost morale amongst the squad and fans heading into the February-March
20:37spell. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think the ambition is still very much there. I mean,
20:43if Poole's don't win on Saturday, it would be a body, but it wouldn't necessarily be the end of
20:49their playoff hopes. I mean, there's no saying that they won't go and win three or four on the
20:54trot. They do have, after the Barnett game, a run of what looks like, although there's plenty of
20:59travelling, they do have a run of sort of fairly winnable games and there's no reason they couldn't
21:03go and win three or four on the trot. You're right to say that obviously some of the teams do have
21:09three or four games in hand, but at this stage of the season, that can be both a blessing
21:13and a curse. I think you'd always probably rather have the points in the bank. In truth,
21:17you're probably going to have to end up playing Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday, Tuesday. That can be
21:22really difficult. We know how relentless the National League is, so there's no guarantee
21:26that sides like Rochdale are going to go and take an extra nine, 12 points or whatever. So I think
21:33Poole's will still remain pretty hopeful. I mean, if you look at the current squad, the squad that
21:37they fielded on Saturday, I wonder whether that has enough, particularly on the bench, and I wonder
21:45whether it has enough pace and dynamism in forward areas to mount a playoff charge, given the fact
21:51that Poole still have a little bit of catching up to do. I think they'll need to strengthen. I mean,
21:57there was certainly some frustration from supporters on Saturday night and Sunday as well.
22:04But I mean, it remains to be seen. It's difficult to say quite what's going to happen. I mean,
22:12January, I know there's no transfer window necessarily. It's never the easiest time to
22:17recruit players. It's obviously somewhat short-noticed, especially given the injuries
22:24to Gray. I know they've potentially known about that for some time, and Man City. So
22:28Poole's are going to have to think on their feet to an extent. I mean, there's still plenty of
22:31football to be played, but Poole's are not going to be able to afford to have too many more slip-ups
22:37like the one at Wheelston if they're serious playoff contenders, especially if you then look
22:42at the run in the final four, six weeks of the campaign. They've got some really, really
22:48difficult games. So I know Lenny says he wants to be sort of within three or four points,
22:53eight games out from the end of the season. And I think that would definitely be a success. But
22:57I think in an ideal world, you'd want to be there or thereabouts because you're going to have some
23:00really challenging fixtures. Sides potentially playing for the title, potentially also playing
23:05for a place in the playoffs as well. So they're going to be really competitive towards the end.
23:10So I think Poole's will need to put a run of wins together between now and those final six to
23:17eight weeks of the campaign. And to do that, I do think they're probably going to need to
23:21strengthen. I know that the intention is there from the club. They would like to add a couple.
23:25And of course, if they were to lose on Saturday and lose on Tuesday, then you never quite know
23:30how that might change the perspective. But it doesn't take a lot. In football, you've only got
23:35to win a couple of games and all of a sudden you're right back in there. It's incredibly competitive.
23:39It's incredibly congested. Teams are dropping points all the time. Solon have just lost their
23:45manager, Andy Wing, to Barrow. You look at a side like Yeovil, they've had a bit of a difficult
23:51run. So there's still the potential there for Poole to mount a playoff push. I mean,
23:56I think that the players in the squad and the management will still feel as though they've
23:59got a bit of momentum. OK, they've had a really difficult week. But if you look at the three
24:04months since Manny Lawrence has been in charge, they've only lost two nationally games, five wins,
24:09six draws. It's been generally really positive. There's an upward trend. So long may that
24:15continue. Let's hope so. Yes, indeed. Let's hope so. Thank you very much, Robbie. I think we'll
24:21wrap up there. We will do one next week as well, the next Poole podcast. It could well be after
24:27the Barnet game and a good chance to reflect on both the Woken and Barnet victories for
24:32Hartlepool United and the two new signings, he says, with a lot of hope. Looking at this video,
24:36I think I'm going to go for a haircut before working on Saturday. Safe travels for the
24:41upcoming games, Robbie, and head to the Hartlepool Mail website throughout the week for the latest
24:48Hartlepool news from Robbie and the team. Until next time, thanks for listening. Cheers.