On this episode, we explore the biblical story of Noah's Ark and weather's role in it. Plus, find out if the Bible is the first to tell the story of a great flood.
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00:00Welcome to Invisible Iceberg.
00:06On today's show, we explore the biblical story of Noah's Ark and weather's role.
00:11Plus, is the Bible the first to tell the story of a great flood?
00:16We'll reveal the answer.
00:19And we discuss the most devastating and costly floods in U.S. history.
00:24It all starts now on Invisible Iceberg.
00:34Today we're diving into the iconic Bible story of Noah's Ark and its dramatic flood.
00:41Does this tale of weather's power represent ancient folklore, or could it be a reflection
00:47of real life events?
00:49We'll examine how stories like Noah's Ark may actually be historical records passed
00:54down through the generations.
00:56This is just one of the fascinating stories explored in the book Invisible Iceberg, When
01:00Climate and Weather Shaped History.
01:02Welcome to Invisible Iceberg.
01:04I'm Bernie Raynaud.
01:05Joining us right now is ACUE with the founder and executive chairman and author of the book
01:10Invisible Iceberg, When Climate and Weather Shaped History, Dr. Joel Myers.
01:14Dr. Joel, thanks for joining us today.
01:17My pleasure, always.
01:19All right, we're going to talk about a story that I think is very well known.
01:23Let's talk about the Bible and whether the Bible talks about weather and weather events.
01:31It does.
01:32At least 31 times it mentions weather and probably more than that.
01:37The best known one, of course, is Noah's flood, the seventh plague in Egypt, hail, but you
01:47can find references to weather in the Bible, but you find references to the weather in
01:54any historical documents and stories that are passed on because the weather and climate
02:02had such an effect on humanity and threats to individuals and their survival.
02:07Let's talk about the great flood.
02:10Yeah, so obviously God said to Noah, a great flood is coming and prepare for it and build
02:19a great ark.
02:22And he did and put pairs of the animals and probably plants and so on to survive.
02:30How did God tell him or how did he have a suspicion that this was occurring without
02:35getting into the religious aspect?
02:38Obviously the ark was built and a lot of animal life and humans survived a tremendous
02:46flood.
02:47Now, maybe glaciers were melting was about the time that we were coming out of the ice
02:53age and clearly there was enough time, months or maybe even years to prepare for this flood.
03:03Others were very skeptical, thought it was crazy and so on.
03:07But it was a huge, it must have a lot of support because it was huge.
03:10It had the volume of one third of the Titanic and remember it rained for 40 days and 40
03:16nights.
03:17It was a terrible flood.
03:18So it might have been a glacier, it might have been added rain.
03:21Remember he sent off the raven and then he sent off the dove and kept coming back, which
03:25meant they couldn't find land.
03:27And finally, on the third attempt, the dove came back with an olive branch in his mouth
03:35indicating the dove brought it back from a land area and it was time to find that land
03:40and start humanity over.
03:43How does the biblical text play into this belief, that is, that a flood did occur?
03:51Undoubtedly a flood occurred and it was passed on, of course, and it's in the Old Testament
03:58and a lot of details about it and it certainly influenced a lot of religions and there's
04:04a basis for it.
04:05And the fear of a flood and what it means and how God warned Noah and the power of God
04:13to know this was coming and provide this forecast and Noah and the people and the animals on
04:21board survived and there's a lot that represent a lot of things in history, how humans got
04:27through these crises and these challenges by the environment and the weather and climate
04:32to be alive another day.
04:35Well, thanks, Dr. Joel.
04:37Lots of great information on the big flood.
04:40Stick around.
04:41Coming up in a few minutes, you'll be joining us again with our What If segment.
04:44Here with more perspective on this biblical weather event is Dr. Tremper Longman.
04:49He's a professor, theologian, and distinguished scholar of biblical studies at Westmont College.
04:56Thanks for joining us again today, sir.
04:58Oh, it's my pleasure, Bernie.
05:00Thanks for having me.
05:02Was the Bible the first to tell the story of a great flood?
05:06We think it wasn't the first.
05:07We have a very similar story in something called the Gilgamesh epic and references to
05:15it in other Babylonian texts.
05:17And indeed, the flood is first mentioned in a mid third millennium Sumerian text.
05:25The story of the flood in the book of Genesis was likely based on oral tradition that was
05:32passed down through the ages.
05:34Is there any evidence that the biblical story is based on a real event?
05:39My own view is that what you have in Genesis 1 to 11 is referring to historical events.
05:47And of course, the flood stories in Genesis 6 to 9, it is referring to real events.
05:55It's giving a figurative depiction of them.
06:00And in the case of the flood, it's using hyperbole.
06:05And probably both the Gilgamesh epic and the biblical story, and perhaps even other flood
06:12stories, were inspired by a very dramatic event in the past that imprinted itself on the minds of
06:26the people who survived it.
06:28And as one example, we know that there was this dramatic flood around 5500 BC at the end of the
06:37last ice age that created the Black Sea and actually separated Europe from Asia.
06:45And perhaps an event like that imprinted itself on people's minds and then they interpreted it
06:55from their theological perspective.
06:58That's one way to think about the reality that lies behind the flood.
07:04What role does the biblical text and this theological significance of the story of Noah
07:10play into scholarship?
07:14Yeah, I mean, it plays into scholarship by reflecting on what is the theological message
07:22which is being communicated by the flood story.
07:25And here, I think we'd find more unanimity among scholars, no matter whether they think
07:32it's literally true, figuratively true, or mythological.
07:39It's clearly talking about human sin and God's judgment on human sin.
07:47But perhaps maybe even most importantly, it's also talking about God's grace in that he doesn't
07:55completely eradicate humanity, but he gives it a second chance in Noah and his family.
08:06Noah's flood story includes scripture, faith, and myth.
08:10As a biblical scholar, how do you combine that with today's knowledge
08:15to find the reality about the flood?
08:18Yeah, so my own view as a biblical scholar is that, indeed, it takes faith to believe the story,
08:31that there's a reality behind it.
08:34It can't be proven through scientific methods.
08:39There is a mythic quality to it in that myths tend to tell us about ourselves and about God
08:52in a kind of foundational way.
08:55And so there is a combination of faith, myth, and reality as we encounter
09:02the story of the flood in the Bible.
09:05Here's a tough question.
09:07Meteorologists try to plan and warn others about upcoming weather events.
09:11When Noah prepared for the flood, was he an early meteorologist?
09:17Well, yes.
09:17And let me say how much we all appreciate meteorologists who prepare us for...
09:23But I would say that Noah's anticipation of the weather, of course, was based on divine
09:30revelation, something that you all probably won't appeal to, but rather more scientific
09:38methods.
09:39You know, there's an interesting passage in the Gospel of Matthew where it says,
09:45where Jesus says, when people ask him for a miraculous sign, they say,
09:49you know the saying, red sky at night means fair weather tomorrow.
09:55Red sky in the morning means foul weather all day.
09:58So I don't know how far back that kind of, you know, folk meteorology goes.
10:05But yeah, it is interesting to think about Noah being the first weather person.
10:14As they said, red sky at night, sailor's delight, red sky in the morning,
10:19sailor's warning.
10:20All goes back, perhaps, to biblical text.
10:24Dr. Tremper Logman, professor, theologian,
10:27and distinguished scholar of biblical studies at Westmont College.
10:31Thanks again for joining us today.
10:34My pleasure.
10:36Coming up, is the Bible the first to tell the story of a great flood?
10:41We explore.
10:42But next, we reveal the most devastating and costly floods in U.S. history.
11:04Welcome back to Invisible Iceberg.
11:05I'm Bernie Rainow.
11:06It's time for our What If segment.
11:09And we're back with Akiwa, the founder and executive chairman and author
11:12of Invisible Iceberg, When Climate and Weather Shaped History.
11:17Dr. Joel Myers, thanks for joining us again here.
11:20So let's get into this.
11:22Are there other sources that tell stories of a great flood?
11:26It's not the Bible, right?
11:27Yeah, of course.
11:29Noah's story in the Bible.
11:31But in other cultures, just about every culture has a story of a flood.
11:39And a lot of people have drowned and died in floods.
11:43And it's a threat.
11:45And in history, it was a tremendous threat.
11:47People didn't have any forecast, any warning.
11:51Torrential rains would occur.
11:53People lived along streams and rivers because they needed water.
11:57And they may have died in a flood while they were sleeping,
12:02or just couldn't get out of the way, or maybe there was a tidal wave.
12:07So floods have killed hundreds of millions of people over time.
12:11Tremendous loss of life.
12:13And so it is a fear, a great fear of humanity.
12:17But there are some examples of prophets in other cultures that said this flood is coming.
12:26We need to build a ship and something to be able to survive the flood.
12:31And of course, those are the stories that survived and where people were saved.
12:37We don't know how many other prophets may have said a flood's coming.
12:40It didn't come.
12:40But we just know that it's not only Noah, but there are other stories like that.
12:45So we have a lot of stories from a lot of different cultures.
12:48What does science tell us?
12:51Is there evidence that this great flood actually took place?
12:55Yeah, there is.
12:56The Noah flood, it was in the cradle of civilization where we've been able to pass on things.
13:02It's in the Old Testament.
13:05And there's evidence of the flood.
13:10And not only that, there's been artifacts found in different places that may represent
13:16the actual flood that's talked about in the Bible and Noah.
13:20But there's also evidence, of course, of other tremendous floods in other parts of the world
13:26that have been lethal.
13:28In most cases, people were not prepared for the flood.
13:32And your research in the book, when you were looking at extreme and severe weather events,
13:38what are some of the biggest floods that come to your mind that we know that happened?
13:45Well, just in the last 100 years or so, a terrible flood when the rivers in China flooded
13:53in 1931, between one and four million people died.
13:58One to four million.
14:00Three or four million people died in one flood over a period of a couple of weeks along the
14:05rivers.
14:08And that's been in the last 100 years.
14:10We know also that there have been major hurricanes in the Indian Ocean just in the last 100 years
14:17that have killed over 100,000 people.
14:20In some cases, perhaps as much as a half million people with one hurricane.
14:24And so we know floods have killed in the last 100 years well over 10, maybe 20 million people
14:34on the planet.
14:34That's a lot of people.
14:35And so you go back further where you had no communication, no warnings of any sort.
14:43And the death toll has probably been enormous because you go further back,
14:49enormous storms and tidal waves and tsunamis and all types of events that just probably
14:57wiped out entire areas, entire countries, entire islands.
15:02Hundreds of millions of people died in flood since humanity started walking the earth,
15:08I have no doubt.
15:09And even today with the warnings and all of the advanced weather forecasting, flooding
15:16and inland flooding and flash flooding is still something that that kills today.
15:21Oh, absolutely.
15:22In fact, it's a major cause of deaths from hurricane, not the wind.
15:26But modern forecasting and the success, as Nate Silver says in his book, The Signal and
15:32the Noise, weather forecasters, meteorologists have made more progress in prediction than
15:37those in any other field.
15:38It looked at 100 fields.
15:40And so we can all be proud of that and our legacy.
15:42And of course, AccuWeather has been part of that and our ability to warn people, have
15:47superior warnings.
15:48There's no doubt that we've saved tens of thousands of lives, maybe even more when you
15:53look around the world, because the kind of storms that used to kill even decades ago,
16:00hundreds of thousands of people now do not because people get warnings on their cell
16:05phone, even in some of the poorer areas, we get these to them.
16:08So this is great progress.
16:12Let's celebrate.
16:13We are saving over decades, millions of people that would have died that used to died even
16:2170, 80 years ago.
16:23And with the warming planet, there is strong belief.
16:26And I knew you personally that these flooding events and these rare record rainfall events
16:35are going to continue to be a problem.
16:38Well, yeah, because as the Earth's temperature warms even a little bit, it can hold a lot
16:43more water vapor.
16:44The amount of water vapor in there doubles, capacity doubles every 20 degree increase
16:49in temperature.
16:49So about 7 percent for every degree.
16:52And that's pretty dramatic.
16:54So that is why we're having some all time record rains and particularly in certain storms
17:02and so on.
17:02So no question, the extreme events will be more frequent.
17:08And one final question that's interesting.
17:10Did the biblical flood story lead to the name of the U.S. government weather agency?
17:17NOAA, spelled differently.
17:19It's different, right?
17:20We don't know for sure, but I suspect it played a role.
17:25Interesting.
17:26I did not get the connection with that.
17:29But NOAA, that's a little uncanny, isn't it?
17:33Well, I think it was by design.
17:37Well, it was the great flood and interesting.
17:39We have story and science coming together.
17:43Thanks so much for telling us the story, Dr. Joel.
17:46My pleasure.
17:47Always.
17:47These are fascinating and we both enjoy them.
17:49We really do.
17:50After the break, we reveal the most devastating and costly floods in U.S. history.
17:59Welcome back to Invisible Iceberg, I'm Bernie Raynaud.
18:02Flooding is one of the most devastating natural disasters causing significant
18:07economic losses and loss of life worldwide.
18:10In fact, the World Bank estimates global flood losses could reach $1 trillion annually by 2050.
18:18Floods come in various forms.
18:21River flooding occurs when rivers overflow due to excess rainfall or flooding.
18:26Such as the Niles annual floods and the 1993 Midwest floods in the U.S.
18:32Flash flooding happens suddenly due to intense rainfall,
18:35common in mountainous and urban areas.
18:38Water can rapidly rise, sometimes in just a few minutes.
18:41Now, examples include the deadly flash flooding in St.
18:44Louis on July 24th, 25th of 2022 and New York City during Tropical Storm Ida.
18:51Now, coastal flooding occurs when rivers overflow due to excess rainfall
18:56and flooding.
18:57Now, coastal flooding results from storm surges from tropical storms, hurricanes,
19:03but also during non-tropical low-pressure areas such as the March 1993 superstorm.
19:10Usually high tides or king times, sometimes occurring under blue skies,
19:15also can result in serious coastal flooding in cities such as Miami.
19:20Ice jam flooding occurs in colder regions.
19:22Causing water to back up and flood surrounding areas.
19:26In March of 1936, ice jam flooded areas across Pennsylvania, New York and New England,
19:31resulting in $5.5 billion in today's dollars and 107 fatalities.
19:38That's our show for today.
19:39For more information and get your copy of the book Invisible Iceberg,
19:44When Climate and Weather Shaped History by Dr. Joel Myers, go to invisibleiceberg.com.
19:50And a big thanks to all of you for watching.
19:52If you have any questions or comments, send us an email at questions at accuweather.com.