Phil discusses Sunderland's potential signing of Enzo Le Fée and what it might mean for the rest of the campaign
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00:00Morning everyone and welcome to a, I guess, a sort of special edition of On The Whistle
00:05where we're going to be talking a little bit about transfers, specifically about Enzo
00:08Lefebvre. Now, as I'm sure you're all aware already, Sunderland look increasingly likely
00:13that they're going to make the Roma midfielder their first signing of the January transfer
00:17window. And I was doing a bit of research yesterday about Lefebvre, what kind of play
00:21he is, where I thought he might fit into the squad. There's a big read on the Sunderland
00:24Echo website or on My Blue Sky, where you can find the link. So go and have a read of
00:29that. But I thought, why not turn it into a little video as well and hopefully give
00:32you some insight on the player who increasingly looks like he's going to be Sunderland's first
00:37signing of the January transfer window. Now, there's a big caveat here. I am recording
00:40it at half past nine on Thursday morning. As of yet, Enzo Lefebvre is absolutely not
00:45a Sunderland player. The deal has not been concluded. I mean, as we all know, anything
00:48can happen in football. But I think it's fair to say that it looks like there's a very good
00:52chance it will happen now. And I thought it would be interesting to have a little bit
00:56of a look at him as a player and talk to you about what I think it might mean, both for
00:59the starting XI and the squad more generally moving forward, if and when this does actually
01:04happen. So first things first, who is Enzo Lefebvre and what might this deal look like?
01:09Lefebvre is a French midfielder. He's 24. There is a strong link to Régis Lebris, which
01:15is why personally I think a player of this calibre is coming to Sunderland at this stage
01:18of his career. I'm not sure it happens without the Lebris link. So Lebris actually coached
01:22Lefebvre during their time in Lorient Academy, when Régis Lebris was in charge of Lorient's
01:28reserve team. That was the same kind of era as Matteo Guendouzi, Ila Mesia, the Leeds
01:33United goalkeeper. Lefebvre then worked his way into Lorient's first team and when Lebris
01:38took over as first team head coach, the two enjoyed a hugely successful first campaign
01:42together where Lorient surpassed all expectations and finished 10th. At the end of that campaign,
01:48Lefebvre moved to Rennes and I think it's fair to say that was one of the reasons why
01:51Lebris didn't have a particularly, and Lorient, didn't have a particularly successful second
01:55season. Lefebvre then moved to Roma last summer for €23m, signing a five-year contract,
02:02so a huge investment on Roma's part. But Roma have had a really, really difficult season.
02:06It's been a little bit dysfunctional there, as some of you who follow Italian football
02:09will know. They're on their third manager of the season, so Daniele De Rossi, who was
02:14obviously part of the club when Lefebvre was first signed, was sacked. Ivan Juric then
02:19came in, now Southampton manager, he was sacked and Claudio Magnieri is now back in as temporary
02:24manager until the end of the season. Magnieri has quite simply gone with other central midfielders.
02:29Roma have a ton of central midfielders and Lefebvre's playing time has reduced dramatically.
02:34That means that Roma now want him out. They want him playing specifically because they
02:38want to try and raise some funds potentially in the summer and recoup some of that money
02:42that they spent last summer. Now, obviously, Sunderland, being a championship club, do
02:46not have the finances to strike a permanent deal of that scope at this time. I think that's
02:50fair to say. So what we're initially looking at is a loan. And what we're expecting from
02:54Italian sources that have been reporting on this deal is that if Sunderland win promotion
02:59to the Premier League, they will automatically sign Lefebvre for what we think will probably
03:05be a club record transfer somewhere in the region of £20m. Now, that's not confirmed.
03:11That's just me reflecting what's been reported heavily in the Italian media from some trusted
03:15sources. So as I say, the caveat is that this isn't done yet and we'll have to see how
03:20that all shakes out. But that's what we think is likely to happen. So I think it's a really
03:26interesting one in terms of when I was doing my research, what I wanted to try and find
03:29out was a bit more about Lefebvre as a player and specifically, how was he used by Le Brice
03:34in that successful season? And does that give us any clues for how he might be used for
03:38the rest of this campaign and moving forward? What I find out about Lefebvre by looking
03:42at that 22-23 Ligue 1 season in close detail was the main thing we're talking about when
03:49we're talking about Enzo Lefebvre is a very, very, very creative player. Now, the first
03:54thing to say is that he's a hugely flexible midfielder. At some point in his career, and
03:58remember he's only 24, but he now has well over 100 senior appearances to his name. So
04:02there is a certain level of experience there, possibly slightly different to some of the
04:06players that some of them brought in before, like in Edouard Michoud, for example, he has
04:10played a lot more regular minutes at the top level. He has played in every position. He's
04:15played as the holding midfielder, taking the ball off the centre half and trying to
04:19launch attacks that way. He's played as a more orthodox central midfielder and he's
04:23played as a very attacking midfielder. Now, under Le Brice specifically, Lefebvre tended
04:28to be used as a more attacking player. So in the first half of the season, when Lorient
04:32were pushing for the Champions League, actually, Lefebvre was playing on the left of the 4-3-3
04:38in a very, very attacking No. 8 role. What happened in January was that Lorient then
04:42sold two of their best players that season, their two wingers, and Le Brice had to switch
04:46formation to a back five, which without those key sort of wingers, they were a lot less
04:50successful in the second half of the season, but they did still have some big wins. In
04:53that formation, Lefebvre actually played as a No. 10. So Le Brice played with three at
04:57the back, he played at the centre forward and two No. 10s in behind, and Lefebvre was
05:01one of those players. So while Lefebvre is a very flexible player, I think it's fair
05:05to say that Le Brice, generally speaking, has used him as more of an attacking midfielder.
05:10When you look at some of the statistics, which I've sourced from Opta via FB Ref, you can
05:15see that creativity is his main strength. So if we have a look at some of his statistics,
05:20his assists, 0.18 assists for every 90 minutes that he played, that was better than 84% of
05:26midfielders in Ligue 1 that season. His expected assists was 0.2 per 90 minutes, which was
05:33better than 89% of midfielders at the level. His shot-creating actions, so basically this
05:39is when a midfielder or a winger or whoever does an action that leads to him or a teammate
05:44having a shot on goal, whether that's a pass, whether that's a cross, whether that's a dribble.
05:49He averaged 3.57 shot-creating actions per 90 minutes. That was better than 82% of midfielders
05:56in the French top tier that season. And there's so many other statistics that underline that
06:01basically the main thing he tries to do is to create chances, take risks and make things
06:06happen specifically in the final third. Successful take-ons, so that's getting passing opposition
06:11play, averaging 2.02 per 90 minutes, that was better than 91% of midfielders in the
06:17French top tier that season. Progressive passes, 6.48 per 90 minutes, better than 77% of midfielders
06:24in the French top tier that season. Progressive carries, that's dribbling with the ball into
06:28a dangerous area, 2.85 per 90 minutes, that was better than 79% of midfielders in the
06:34French top tier that season. So hopefully what I'm trying to give you an image of is
06:39a risk-taker basically with Lefebvre. He will try and make something happen, he will try
06:42and go past players, he will try and play risky passes, he's all about trying to take
06:48creative options on the pitch. I should mention as well that he's known to be a set-piece
06:52taker which I think will be music to the ears of Sunderland fans if and when he does actually
06:56sign for the club because that's definitely a little bit of an X-factor that he could
06:59potentially bring. So I think when you look at it, you could say that the most obvious
07:04position Lefebvre would play would be one of the 2-8s in Sunderland's 4-3-3. However,
07:09I do think it might be a little bit more complicated than that because when we're talking about
07:14this really creative midfielder who is quite slight, he's quite a small footballer, you
07:19might think that out of possession is going to be a problem. The statistics don't necessarily
07:24suggest that's going to be the case at all. If I look at that same season where I've just
07:27reeled off all those impressive creative passing and dribbling numbers, actually his
07:31defensive numbers absolutely stack up. So his average of 3.21 tackles for every 90 minutes
07:37he played that season was better than 90% of other midfielders in the French top tier
07:43that season. He averaged 1.49 blocks per 90 minutes, that was better than 76% of midfielders
07:51in the French top tier. Clearances, again, 1.13 per 90 minutes, better than 69% of his peers.
07:57So we absolutely shouldn't be looking at this guy as someone who can only play in a very
08:02attacking position. I think what's really interesting for me looking at Lefevre's numbers
08:07is that there is a far stronger comparison with Dan Neil than Joe Bellingham or Chris Rigg.
08:13We know that Joe Bellingham posts some incredible numbers in terms of a lot of the attributes he
08:19has. Chris Rigg, again, the same, especially when it comes to goal scoring, you know the
08:22amount of chances that Chris Rigg's getting on the end of. But in terms of his sort of
08:26progressing passing numbers and then some of his sort of tackling numbers as well,
08:30I think Lefevre most closely mirrors Dan Neil in the current Sunderland squad. So what that
08:35means to me is that I think Lefevre can play any of the positions in Le Brice's midfield as it
08:40stands. What we've seen in recent weeks is that Dan Neil is playing that holding midfield role
08:46in a much less orthodox fashion. He's now been much more aggressive, he's grown in confidence
08:50in the role. We're seeing him now have the freedom to take players on. We're seeing him
08:54to start being much more creative and aggressive in the passes that he plays to the final third.
08:59So I absolutely believe from looking at Lefevre's profile that he could offer cover in that position
09:04and he could definitely be a player who is quite aggressive from a deeper position as well.
09:09So in short, I think that Lefevre is someone who I would imagine Le Brice might look to use
09:14in quite attacking positions. What I can definitely imagine is one of the things
09:17that we talk about a lot is someone struggling with low blocks. I think Lefevre is definitely
09:21somebody who could get around the opposition box and try and create that bit of moment of magic
09:25for an Isidoro or somebody like that with a pass. I can definitely see that later in games.
09:29But I could also see him if Dan Neil was injured or suspended or whatever or Le Brice needed a rest,
09:35Lefevre's certainly a player who could play that role the way that Dan Neil's playing at the moment
09:39where he's starting to find some outstanding form, let's be fair, but he's also finding ways to be
09:44attacking within that role. So I think it's really interesting in terms of one of the things I've
09:49seen a lot of Sunderland fans talking about was does this mean that Sunderland are going to sell
09:52a player this month? Does this mean that they're anticipating the departure of Savage or Joel
09:56Bellingham? I really don't think that's the case. I think two things are true about this deal.
10:00I think one is potentially that it's just too good for Sunderland not to get involved with.
10:04Le Brice knows the player's quality. There is a feeling that if it clicks, he could be one of
10:09the best midfielders at this level and potentially a hugely successful long-term investment for the
10:16club. We know that Le Brice wanted to sign a midfielder this month because while in theory
10:21there are a lot of players in that position, the reality of this season is that Sunderland have
10:26been really stretched. Alan Brown has obviously missed a lot of games due to injury. We haven't
10:30yet seen Salih Samed. And while we know that he's now very close to a debut, Le Brice has been really
10:35cautious in saying, look, you have to be realistic about how much football Samed's missed. He's going
10:40to be a really important player for us. I think he could make an impact, but he's not going to be
10:43playing 90 minutes three times a week from day one. So I really do think that this isn't related
10:48to any player's departing. Sunderland wanted another midfielder and I think this incredible
10:53opportunity has come up that they want to take. And I think it's more a reflection of the fact
10:57that they feel they need more cover because at the moment, Samed in particular is a little bit
11:01of an unknown because we don't know how quickly he's going to reach his absolute best level after
11:05so long out. And I can, as I've said before in this video, I can see Le Fay playing that position,
11:10even if I think more naturally we might see him used as an impact player in the final third.
11:15And I also think that, listen, we all know, I think that at some point Job is probably destined
11:20for the top tier. You know, whether that's another European league, as his brother did,
11:28or whether it's to go to the Premier League. I think we all know that at some point he may leave
11:33for a huge sum. I think it's obvious that Sunderland will be doing some kind of succession
11:37planning on that front. I don't think it's any coincidence, you know, that they signed Milano
11:40Lecic last summer. They knew that he would take time to settle, that he wouldn't have a huge part
11:44of play of the season, but he's someone who they feel in the future could be a brilliant number
11:48eight for Sunderland. You know, we know that's what they did. It's why they signed Romain Mundo
11:51last January, even though Jack Clarke was in brilliant form, because they knew there might
11:55be some point he goes. So I'm super realistic about what the future might hold for Job Bellingham,
11:59but I don't think we should jump to conclusions that he's going to leave in this window.
12:02You've got to remember that Job Bellingham signed a new contract last summer. He could have left for
12:06the Premier League last summer, if he really wanted to do and wanted to push for it. He wanted
12:10the complete opposite. He told Sunderland he felt he had unfinished business here. He still felt he
12:14really wanted to be part of something, that he loved the club. So he signed a new deal, which
12:17he didn't have to do. There was no obligation for him to do that. Is he going to leave mid-season
12:23when he is clearly loving life, when he is playing every single week, when he's got the trust of his
12:27head coach and he's got the opportunity to be part of something really special? I really don't
12:31think he's going to be pushing to depart. Now there's a huge caveat here that anything can
12:35happen in football. Things change quickly. At the start of this week, I was speaking to people who
12:39said, yeah, you know, Enzo Lefere is a great player, but I just can't see Sunderland pulling
12:42it off. And now we're doing this video because it looks like, although it's not done yet,
12:45they might be able to do just that. So I'm not, I can't say for sure what will happen next,
12:50but I don't think we should jump to conclusions about Job. Yes, for sure, Sunderland will be
12:53thinking about succession planning in midfield because any sensible club would be doing that.
12:57But I don't think, at this point, right now, we should be overly worried about Job leaving in
13:02this window. Sunderland have always been looking for another midfielder and they've been presented
13:06with this unique opportunity to sign someone that knows Lebris and could potentially bring
13:11some real x-factor to the squad. So all in all, I'm excited about it. I'm not expecting players
13:17to leave as a result of this. I don't think that's what this is about. As I say, things can change
13:21quickly. We know the riches of the Premier League, but that's just my gut feeling that I'm sharing
13:24with you. There's always the caveat, and we've seen it with some of the players Sunderland have
13:28signed over recent times, you don't know how quickly players are going to settle. Lefebvre,
13:33he should have some sharpness because he has been playing this season, but he probably won't be at
13:37his absolute best yet. You don't know how he's going to adjust to a new division and a new
13:41language. There are a lot of unknowns and so I'm always a little bit cautious in trying not to get
13:46too carried away. But I think it's fair to say that, generally speaking, he has more experience
13:52than a lot of players who Sunderland have recruited and that should hopefully help him hit the ground
13:57running. And I think what we've seen from the season under Lebris is that he could potentially
14:01be a bit of a special player. So fingers crossed this happens. I think it could be a real exciting
14:06one for Sunderland fans to watch. So I'm really hopeful that's given you a bit of an understanding
14:11of who Lefebvre is as a player, why Sunderland might be interested, what it might all mean.
14:16As I say, I've recorded this at half past nine on Thursday morning, and as of yet,
14:20Lefebvre hasn't signed and anything can happen. So don't hold it against me if we don't actually
14:24get a scarf picture, but let's fingers crossed that it does happen and hopefully this has given
14:28you a little bit of insight. So thanks so much for watching.