El detrás de escena de la salida de Kravetz y la reestructuración política en CABA.
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00:00We could have used the cover like we used other references a week ago, a month ago, maybe five months ago too, because there were many episodes that were marking this tension.
00:12What did change, Pablo, is that in the last seven days there were five or six episodes that define the existing tension between Javier Milei and Mauricio Macri.
00:26And I'm going to take one more license, between the Macri and the Milei, or between the Milei and the Macri.
00:33Naturally talking about Jorge and Mauricio, and talking about Javier and Karina.
00:41Many things happened, but above all a climate and a definition that was noticed in the last 72 hours.
00:50The idea that we are at a point of no return.
00:55Milei saying, through some of his spokespersons, the final battle against the Macri in the city.
01:03Macri saying, this is not going anywhere, it ends here.
01:08From both families.
01:11From both Montezco and Capuleto, both saying, guys, this relationship, this kind of symbiosis that we had, irregular, sometimes good, sometimes bad.
01:22Sometimes we argued about something, but then there was the pact of the milanesa in Olivos.
01:28Well, what is now expressed is very difficult to find a voice in both camps that says, no, this is going to be solved.
01:37Maybe the only actor left there is Guillermo Francos, who usually lowers his decibels.
01:44It is almost his task as Minister of the Interior, Chief of the Cabinet, the most political man.
01:50And another figure appears, which later I will like to talk to Hernán and Cero, because it has to do with this moment of the financial market.
01:59They tell me in the Macri world that the person who is intervening to lower the tension is the Minister of Economy, Toto Caputo.
02:08Well.
02:09And with what do I link it, with what do I link it?
02:13With these statements that also, very hypothetically, but in a tone of clear threat, emerge from the Macri world saying,
02:23what would happen if we no longer give him the votes and he remains in absolute weakness?
02:28What would have happened if we had not approved the laws, where would the country's risk be?
02:33What would happen if Macri, debatable, it would be interesting at some point to discuss it with Hernán and Cero,
02:38if Mauricio Macri starts talking to investment funds, international investors and international figures, saying, hey, watch out for my law.
02:48It has always been said, and even Mauricio Macri himself has allowed it to transcend, that beyond the construction capacity that Macri may have in a context like this,
02:57you have to fear his ability to destroy, his ability to hurt.
03:01Exactly.
03:02This ratifies it, let's say.
03:05One could consider, Pablo, sorry, that in the plane of internal politics he has a power limited to those thirty-odd votes of the Congress,
03:14but he speculates that his voice at an international level could be of greater impact.
03:21Because it is also true that from the outside he is seen, beyond the nuances that we find out there,
03:27he is seen as someone who supports economic policy almost blindly, without any kind of objection.
03:33Now, you said in the last 72 hours, what happened, what episode?
03:36Well, there we are going to start reviewing some data.
03:39Last week, there was a piece of data that we have to go to last Thursday, which was the legislators of Carina Milley,
03:45did not approve the budget project of Jorge Macri in the city of Buenos Aires.
03:49Yes.
03:50It was a tense objection, he was able to obtain the number,
03:53bargaining to achieve the sufficient number.
03:56He had to go to Marra.
03:57He had to go to another sector of Libertad Avanza, which is already distanced.
04:01But in the last few days, several things happened, not only the warning of Mauricio Macri,
04:08but also this disembarkation that there was today of Carina Milley in the city of Buenos Aires,
04:13which later I want to make a separate link, short, but relevant,
04:16because it also marks the field to the Macris, but perhaps it marks the field to other actors of the libertarian system,
04:24as we usually say.
04:26Now we go to the act of Carina Milley in Floresta.
04:28And also something that has to do with this.
04:30Today it was finally known, yesterday actually, the departure of Diego Craves.
04:35Diego Craves was the security number two.
04:37He had been chatting with Santiago Caputo to become an official of the national government.
04:41He had a chat with Jorge Macri.
04:43Kirchnerism legislator at one point.
04:45Well, Kirchnerism legislator, someone at the time very linked to Alberto Fernández,
04:49in the first stage of Néstor Kirchner.
04:51Today someone told me, it is very unfair, regarding the trajectory of Diego Craves,
04:55to say that he was changing sides.
04:58Because the question is, does he have a side?
05:02If he ever had any affiliation to be more specific.
05:05Well, he has had his affiliations there for a while.
05:07In recent years, he was part of the ecosystem of the pro.
05:12Now one could, if I wanted to put music to this song, I would put it hitting the door of heaven.
05:19Very well.
05:20You would be with that, because he went to negotiate with Santiago Caputo,
05:23who puts him in a hyper-sensitive place, which is the number two of the CIDE.
05:28How many number two of the CIDE do you remember?
05:30I remember especially one.
05:32It is the one known as Mr. 8.
05:34At the time it was Paco Larcher.
05:36A man who had a domain of the CIDE all the time.
05:39They changed the number one, but Paco Larcher was always left.
05:42The five.
05:43That is, Mr. 8 is usually the most important man in the CIDE,
05:46because the other, in some way, is the visible one.
05:48Therefore, we will have to see.
05:50This does not mean that it is exactly that.
05:52But what reading is done of the departure of the Ciudad de Buenos Aires,
05:56or of the pro, and the arrival of La Libertad Avanza?
05:59Because it has the demonstration of the tension,
06:02that at least you cannot play in two fields at the same time.
06:05Perhaps at another time, if the relationship was good,
06:07it could have had a civilized departure from Jorge Macri's government,
06:11and go to another role in the national government.
06:14But it was all cloudy, all noisy, all tense.
06:18I get a little conspiratorial.
06:20But the departure of Kravets, and the very fast packing,
06:25in a scheme with protagonism,
06:27is also a sign that those who want to leave the pro do not worry.
06:32Here we are going to treat them well.
06:33They have a place here.
06:34It already happened with Patricia Bullrich.
06:36That's why I say, knocking on the door of heaven,
06:39and someone opening the door selectively.
06:41Here is a method that has to do with that.
06:45The cooptation of the players on the other side.
06:47It can happen with Diego Santilli at any time.
06:49Until this bad moment that is affecting Cristian Ritondo at this time.
06:53Cristian Ritondo had a preferential attention on the part of the government,
06:58who always thought,
06:59Macri, keep the seal and the last name,
07:03the leaders who come here, and the votes in Congress for here.
07:06What other decision in the last four years?
07:08And that leads to a matter that accelerated.
07:11Kravets was going to leave the government in January.
07:14A decision that Jorge Macri had to relaunch the cabinet.
07:18What was it going to mean in the movement?
07:20Nestor Grindetti, who is head of the cabinet,
07:23was going to go to a much more political position.
07:25Secretary of political strategy,
07:28but an armorer, taking into account that the election year is coming,
07:32who plays in both territories.
07:33AMBA and PROVINCIA.
07:36Ciudad de Buenos Aires and PROVINCIA.
07:38Well, that also accelerated.
07:39Because of all the crisis that drifted.
07:41And let's not forget that Grindetti and Kravets are two very close figures.
07:46Kravets was the heir to Grindetti in the ANUS.
07:49Now, the armorer who chooses the Macris,
07:52has a very close personal and political relationship
07:56with the one who has become, in the last hours,
07:59in the logic of Macri.
08:00In the logic of Macri, I repeat.
08:02In a kind of traitor.
08:03But then we could think that there are bridges,
08:05that not everything is broken.
08:06Difficult, difficult, that this relationship can be sustained.
08:10Because the accumulation of facts indicates that the tension is increasing
08:14and the climate is also increasing.
08:17Pause, and there we go to something that was decided in terms of the elections next year.
08:20Yes, Hernan?
08:21Yes, no, I wanted to ask Pablo in particular.
08:23Let's see, Kravets at the end of Grindetti.
08:27Yes.
08:28He is leaving the city of Buenos Aires badly.
08:30Yes.
08:31Does that hit Grindetti?
08:32Is Grindetti knocking on the door of freedom?
08:36Or is it simply a rush and that's it?
08:38No.
08:39The information I have is that Grindetti was aware that Kravets was going to leave.
08:43He was surprised that the departure was traumatic at this time,
08:47because it was foreseen that it was a change of relaunch of Jorge Macri's government,
08:53which would have had a logic.
08:54We relaunch the government, there are movements,
08:56and Kravets ends up awarded in the national government.
08:59In an area of empathy, of good ties, there is even a suspicion.
09:04Because Kravets says, hey, they operated on me a week ago,
09:08I submitted the resignation, they told me to stay,
09:10and now they got me out.
09:12What happened there?
09:13Some say Waldo Wolf operates it, with whom Kravets has a very bad relationship,
09:18who is the Secretary of Security,
09:19and others say, watch out, it could have been a self-operation to leave very quickly
09:24and to make this milleist wave of always being very intense.
09:29We enter the field of hypothesis, but everything is verisimilar.
09:31Everything is verisimilar in this framework.
09:33What do I mean?
09:34They are relations of much symbiosis, which appear broken and tensed by the macro,
09:41where Macri and Milley, to return to the main axis, are in extreme tension.
09:46Let's speed up, because we still need to talk about the act of Carina Milley,
09:49of which Carina Milley did not want to be talked about much,
09:52because she prohibited entry to the press.
09:54Yes.
09:55What concrete decisions regarding the elections of next year?
09:58Today there was a meeting of Jorge Macri with his political team.
10:02Before the end of the year, he is going to call the elections for next year.
10:06The climate that is crossing the idea of Jorge Macri,
10:11which in this case we must consider that it is also a political table
10:15where Mauricio Macri is playing,
10:17because what happens in the city impacts what happens in the province.
10:21The idea is to unfold the elections,
10:24that the elections for port positions are before the national election.
10:31But for that to happen, the steps must be eliminated,
10:35because if not, it would be very difficult to unfold
10:39and that there are four elections in the city of Buenos Aires.
10:43Who unfolds what he wants to do is to break the attraction with the national.
10:47Who unfolds wants to break the attraction and say,
10:49Jorge Macri, I care about the legislature,
10:51I want to see the votes of the legislature and start playing.
10:54That's why today we put the photo there,
10:56the figure of Adorni is important.
10:58Adorni was invited today.
11:00He is someone who is not of pure Karinism,
11:05but who is close to Karina.
11:07Let's say, if one had to do ...
11:09Run for my heart.
11:10Adorni does everything possible to be of pure Karinism.
11:12If one had to put ...
11:14If there were two extremes, between Karina and Santiago Caputo,
11:18where do you put Adorni?
11:20Well, the man who made the location of the photos is closer to Karina.
11:25Thank you very much.
11:26Karina sees him as a functional person,
11:28invited him, made him talk,
11:30and Adorni, to close,
11:32was luckier than José Luis Esper.
11:35He was invited,
11:36who seems to be the candidate chosen by my law
11:40to be the first figure in the province of Buenos Aires,
11:43but he was invited, but he did not speak,
11:45because Karina preferred that one of his speak,
11:47Sebastián Pareja, his armorer of advanced freedom.
11:50That's why I say ...
11:51That he was also at the meeting.
11:52That he was at the meeting and that he had special preference
11:54with Pilar Ramírez, who is the legislator for Teña Caneda.
11:58That's why I say ...
11:59It is an act of advanced freedom,
12:01but it is a Karinist act of advanced freedom,
12:05or at least of that variable of freedom.
12:07Now we are going to return to that act in a while, nothing more.
12:09Very good information, Pablo Ibañez,
12:11to understand that it is at a point of no return.
12:15At least in the Abra, anything can happen in Argentine politics.
12:20But the feeling of the Macri-Millay relationship is a point of no return.
12:25What implications can this have?
12:27Even, as Pablo said well,
12:29even in the expectation that the economic plan itself generates.