The Salesforce Founder And CEO Explains What Features The Company’s new Agentforce Agentic AI Tool Will Unlock for Customers
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00:00Are we going to use the video?
00:01I guess we will.
00:02Then you're going to have to sit up straight, Diane,
00:04and you're going to have to look into the camera.
00:06No, I'm a print journalist, so I
00:09don't think I'm held to the same standard of being like,
00:13hi, everybody, welcome.
00:14That's not how we do things at Time, Diane.
00:16No, it's true.
00:19Dare to dream.
00:22Welcome to Leadership Next, the podcast
00:24about the changing rules of business leadership.
00:27I'm Diane Brady.
00:30Well, Mark, good to see you.
00:31Great to be with you.
00:33I know I was at Dreamforce, so I heard
00:36your fantastic presentation on agent force.
00:39So let's start there.
00:40What are we getting wrong about AI agents?
00:42And I heard you had a big splash last week
00:44at the New York World Tour.
00:45I wish I was there.
00:46Yeah, it was fantastic, especially, I think,
00:48some of the entertainment.
00:50And by entertainment, I include some of the speakers
00:52in that category.
00:53Oh, wow, great.
00:54Who did you like?
00:55I liked Boris Johnson, because I used to debate in college,
00:58and he was going off the debating circuit
01:01as I was going on.
01:02So he's very funny.
01:03And look, I liked, of course, the people
01:05I interview, because you get to know them on a deeper level.
01:09But Brian Cornell of Target was great.
01:12I think hearing from His Excellency in Saudi Arabia,
01:17which is, of course, a complicated place,
01:19but having been in Riyadh for the first time,
01:22I thought that was fascinating.
01:23So who are some of the favorite people you've spoken with?
01:27Well, there's been so many, but some of them have gone.
01:31Some of my mentors, Colin Powell, I think,
01:33really influenced me so dramatically
01:37in my core leadership.
01:41I would say maybe one of the most important people
01:45who I've ever had an opportunity to speak to also
01:50was Shimon Peres, who really gave me
01:52some incredible wisdom in terms of trying
01:56to create peace in the world.
01:58And I found that to be incredibly inspiring.
02:01And then I'd also add in really, I
02:05think, the vision and the insights of some of the leaders
02:12who have done so much in business.
02:15And I guess I'll give you one of the people
02:17who I wish I had met, which is Hal Janine, the former CEO
02:21of ITT, who wrote the book Managing.
02:26People like that who have really been
02:29able to capture their wisdom and encapsulate it for us,
02:32I think, is so important.
02:34Well, and I think that's what you
02:35bring to your own leadership.
02:36It's funny.
02:37Unprompted, I would have said Shimon Peres as well.
02:42What a great man.
02:42And I remember he mocked me for having a BlackBerry when
02:45he'd moved on to the iPhone.
02:47So that was when I knew I was behind the times.
02:50But I think that's something you bring a lot to your leadership,
02:54Mark, as we're talking about AI, is
02:57it seems like in addition to running your company,
03:00you do feel this, not compulsion,
03:04but this desire to be a translator of what's
03:07happening in technology to the rest of the world.
03:11Do you think that's fair to say, as you talk about AI agents?
03:15Well, yeah, we have a lot to talk about today, don't we?
03:18Yeah.
03:19I'll say that, yeah, I would say that my thought on that
03:25is I've really enjoyed being in the software
03:28industry for the last 45 years.
03:30When I was 15 years old is when I started writing
03:33my first software commercially.
03:35And my first software product, How
03:37to Juggle, to my current software product, AgentForce,
03:40and when I look at them as a continuum,
03:44I've really enjoyed software and everything that software can be
03:48and what it does and how it works
03:50and how we can work with these computers
03:52to do all these amazing things.
03:54And especially as I moved into business software,
03:57it's been amazing to help companies manage
03:59and share their information and become more productive
04:02to augment their employees.
04:04There's no question.
04:05But I think that right now, I've never
04:07been more excited about software,
04:09more energized or motivated, inspired.
04:12And I think that we're about to move
04:14into a completely new world.
04:16And I don't really have all the words yet
04:20because in a lot of these areas that we're moving into,
04:23I'm not an expert.
04:24And I feel like I need to pick up my level of expertise.
04:28And specifically, I think software
04:30is about to become digital labor.
04:32And that idea that we're going to have digital workers that
04:35are built in software that are replacing, in some cases,
04:41our human workers, augmenting our human workers,
04:44or just doing jobs that have never been done before,
04:48all of these things, well, these are areas
04:51that I have very little expertise in, actually.
04:53You must be using it, though.
04:55I'm quite energized because it's not very often
04:58that you get to learn so many new things all at once.
05:02You know, I have to point out that I
05:04think the first tagline for Salesforce
05:06was the end of software, wasn't it?
05:08Wasn't that your so-
05:10That's exactly right.
05:11We were trying to make the point,
05:13which is, hey, we want to really say you don't have to.
05:18You know, you were getting the software
05:20on CDs or floppy disks.
05:22And people were installing it and upgrading it
05:25and putting it all together.
05:27And that's certainly changed quite a bit, hasn't it,
05:29now that everybody understands now what the cloud is.
05:32I don't have to explain that anymore, thank God.
05:34So we're in a new world, which is the cloud world.
05:37We have a new business model, which is subscription.
05:40Salesforce also introduced its philanthropic model,
05:43which is our one-one-one model,
05:45where we put one percent of our equity,
05:47profit, and time into a foundation
05:49and ended up giving away a billion dollars
05:51and, you know, 10 million hours of volunteerism
05:54and 100,000 nonprofits run on our service for free.
05:57I mean, that's where we started.
05:59But today, I would say there is a new technology model,
06:02which is going to be this idea of agents
06:05and a new business model,
06:07which is you're paying per conversation.
06:10And there's no question there's a new labor model,
06:13a new productivity model, and a new economic model.
06:17Let's drill down on that a bit,
06:19because I'll tell you how I think of agentic AI,
06:22if that's the right way to put it,
06:24which is basically, you know,
06:26you give the prompts to the chatbots of the world,
06:29and really the agents, in essence,
06:32are executing on their own.
06:34So I think of it as that multi-agent model,
06:37like one will go and source, one will scope,
06:40and it'll come back to you with sort of a plan.
06:43So it's not based on what you've inputted.
06:46It's based on its own discovery.
06:48Is that too simplistic,
06:50or how would you define an AI agent?
06:53Well, I kind of look at it like this.
06:55You know, we look at the healthcare industry right now
06:58as probably the largest and most important industry
07:01in the United States.
07:03It's so significant in our economy.
07:05And I actually can't see this right now,
07:07but I'm wearing a boot
07:09because I ruptured my Achilles in September scuba diving.
07:12And I, you know,
07:14go through all of these healthcare processes
07:17like we all do,
07:19and you're very much an advocate
07:21for your own health in the United States.
07:23And, you know, here, Mark,
07:25you need to kind of take this scan,
07:27you need to get these labs,
07:29and, you know, finish these,
07:31and come and see your doctor,
07:33and then somehow it's all gonna work out,
07:35and you're gonna, you know,
07:37your Achilles is gonna repair itself,
07:39and you're gonna be healthy again,
07:41and everything is fine.
07:43And the funny thing is
07:45is that as you go through the process,
07:47and you're kind of, you know,
07:49let's say you get the scan,
07:51and they give you contrast on your MRI
07:53or your CT scan, and they say,
07:55now make sure you drink some water
07:57and you take the drugs,
07:59and you're gonna finish these drugs,
08:01but it's very important that you finish these drugs,
08:03or you get your labs,
08:05and they say, now here's the labs,
08:07but, oh, this number's a little off,
08:09so you need to get a repeat lab in 30 days.
08:11The burden is on you.
08:13You're carrying that burden.
08:15That is your monkey on your back
08:17to drink the water, to finish your drugs,
08:19and to, you know, get the repeat labs.
08:21And the reality is that you really
08:23are not relying on anyone,
08:25and there's nobody in the hospital
08:27that's gonna be calling you.
08:29So that's all gonna change,
08:31and the way it's gonna change
08:33is these agents are gonna deliver
08:35exactly the word that you used,
08:37I think, an agentic layer on the hospital,
08:39and you're gonna be interoperating
08:41at the agentic layer,
08:43and things that do not happen in healthcare
08:45because we have nobody to do them,
08:47you're gonna get a text that's gonna say,
08:49hey, yeah, did you finish your drugs?
08:51And, oh, yeah, hey,
08:53what is the pain like now on your leg?
08:55Are you doing all right, and how are you feeling,
08:57and do you have any questions about that boot
08:59you're wearing, and, oh, one more thing,
09:01you know, we need to get you to come back
09:03for your repeat lab,
09:05so I scheduled it for next Tuesday at 8 o'clock.
09:07Is that all right for you?
09:09And all those things
09:11and the constant interaction and kind of
09:13helping you to become healthy again
09:15are gonna come through the agentic layer
09:17because we don't have anybody in the United States
09:19who does that, and we all know that
09:21because we're all living this healthcare
09:23system directly,
09:25and this will
09:27actually make everyone a lot healthier
09:29because when you do those basic things,
09:31you do get healthier
09:33as a society or
09:35individually.
09:37That's a big thought, I think.
09:39I think it's a big idea, Diane,
09:41that this is like possible,
09:43we're providing digital labor,
09:45so in that case, there's somebody
09:47that's, you know, the software is
09:49providing that capability.
09:51It's not a somebody, it's software,
09:53but it's taking the role
09:55of what, you know,
09:57theoretically would be somebody making that
09:59phone call or email or text message
10:01to you. Now, this is supposed
10:03to be the year of agentic
10:05AI, so that would imply that we
10:07are already here. Have you used any of this
10:09yourself? Yes, I
10:11am, and our customers, let's
10:13talk about that for a second because I think that that
10:15is so important, and
10:17you're right. This was not possible
10:19before. We now have hundreds
10:21and soon we'll have thousands of companies
10:23on our platform, which is
10:25called AgentForce, and
10:27one of those companies is an amazing
10:29company with 75,000 people,
10:3138 billion in revenue,
10:33number one in their class,
10:35incredible organization, great CEO,
10:37it's called Salesforce.
10:39Salesforce
10:41has a
10:43service, you know, that we offer to our
10:46customers called help.salesforce.com
10:48and help.salesforce.com
10:50is
10:52where our customers can go to get their
10:54questions answered, and, you know, the
10:56first round, if you're not authenticated into our
10:58system and we don't know who you are, you
11:00can ask questions and get answers
11:02that are pretty good, but then if you authenticate
11:04in and we know who you are and we know what
11:06products you have and what you've asked before,
11:08we can give you really good answers
11:10and we have converted
11:12help.salesforce.com
11:14completely over to an agentic layer.
11:16So it's now 100% AgentForce.
11:18And those are chatbots who will then
11:20go operate on your behalf.
11:22They can go and operate on your behalf
11:24and let me tell you why that's important.
11:26Salesforce also
11:28has, of our 75,000
11:30employees, 9,000 or so
11:32are in support. So
11:34as the CEO, now what I'm
11:36actually seeing is a lot more
11:38productivity on the agentic
11:40layer and those support agents
11:42are coming to me saying, hey, you know, we're not
11:44as busy as we were, what would you like us to do?
11:46And it turns out we're so busy
11:48at Salesforce, we want to redeploy them
11:50into being sales development
11:52representatives and business development representatives
11:54and in some case account executives
11:56and other things directly working
11:58with customers because
12:00that agentic layer is working
12:02so well in support. So
12:04of those 9,000 support
12:06engineers today, on
12:08my mind is, well,
12:10are we going to redeploy 1,000,
12:122,000, 3,000, 4,000
12:14of them? And
12:16how has the agentic layer changed
12:18our labor model at Salesforce?
12:20That is a
12:22big idea.
12:24And that's an idea and a thought I've never had to have
12:26before at Salesforce. It's true.
12:28I'm trying to imagine somebody
12:30going to you and saying, I need more
12:32to do. That sounds like a perilous
12:34career move. But
12:36those 9,000 agents that you have,
12:38you wouldn't need 9,000
12:40of them going forward, would you? Because I
12:42think about, like, in the 90s
12:44if you had a team from
12:46India, you know, my favorite country
12:48on earth, and
12:50come over, you would think, okay,
12:52I'm training these people to
12:54replace me because Wipro
12:56and, you know, Emphasis and
12:58all the other places you'd outsource to.
13:00I'm imagining
13:02there must be some resistance among those
13:049,000 people as opposed to
13:06I would perhaps be nervous
13:08that this agentic AI
13:10is going to replace me. Well, I think
13:12that this is, you know, reality that
13:14we have to live in right now, which is we are
13:16entering a new world. This is a new horizon
13:18for business. And the thought
13:20that labor is going to change. You
13:22probably saw in the third quarter, while
13:24labor in the United States
13:26remained basically stagnant,
13:28productivity went up, actually,
13:30significantly. And economists
13:32are saying, economists who are not really
13:34technologists, that they're saying AI
13:36and the advancements in AI over the last
13:38several years is really an
13:40indication of why we're starting to see a little
13:42more productivity in the
13:44economy today. So,
13:46when we start to apply that to
13:48our company at a company level, like with this
13:50example with help.salesforce.com,
13:52now there's another
13:54question, which is what other
13:56things are improving? And I'll give you another example
13:58in my own company, because I
14:00know my company very well. We have
14:02about 13,000
14:04software engineers. And our software
14:06engineering leader, who's an amazing executive,
14:08came to me and for the first
14:10time said, hey, we're building the new plan
14:12for fiscal year 26.
14:14We're going to start it February 1st of next year.
14:16And I have something
14:18I want to tell you. And I'm like, well, what's that? He said,
14:20I don't want to hire any new engineers this year.
14:22And I'm like, what
14:24did you say? He said, no, I don't want
14:26to hire any new engineers, because
14:28I am 30
14:30plus percent more productive
14:32this year based on
14:34technology that I have added into
14:36my organization, using
14:38AgentForce and other special tricks
14:40that we have up our sleeve. Our
14:42software engineering team is just a lot better.
14:44And that is also
14:46amazing. So here I am,
14:48you have to realize, you know,
14:50I'm actually doing the work, right? I have
14:52to write a business plan for next year.
14:54And now I'm saying,
14:56okay, well, how many support engineers am I going
14:58to have? And how many software engineers am I going to have?
15:00And how many salespeople am I going to have?
15:02And accountants and all the people
15:04who are so critical at Salesforce.
15:06And I can augment and extend and change
15:08different parts of my business based
15:10on this. And that
15:12is what every CEO
15:14has the opportunity to do right now,
15:16which is to rebalance, shift
15:18and change what their business
15:20looks like based on what technology
15:22can do today that it could not do
15:24even just one year ago.
15:26And that could be in my industry
15:28or other industries. And I'd love to talk
15:30about that with you. Well, I think
15:32it is exciting. I was listening
15:34to you in a different conversation
15:36where you compared Microsoft's
15:38copilot to Clippy. Talk a little
15:40bit about Microsoft, because it
15:42definitely is,
15:44what would you say, I suppose, big man
15:46on campus with regard to
15:48having, you know, ChatGPT,
15:50OpenAI, Copilot.
15:52Where does this leave
15:54a company like that?
15:56Microsoft has been a disappointment to so
15:58many of our customers with Copilot. And I know
16:00anyone who's used Copilot
16:02has had the same experience that I've had, which is
16:04it doesn't seem to be able to do anything
16:06more than I can do with just
16:08ChatGPT or
16:10even Perplexity or
16:12Gemini or U.com
16:14on my phone. And the reason
16:16why is because
16:18to make this AI work
16:20and to get the value from
16:22the AI and to deliver the agentic layer
16:24to make it truly successful
16:26to get the accuracy
16:28to lower the hallucinogenic
16:30capabilities, you have
16:32to ground it into data and metadata.
16:34You have to give it your
16:36workflow. You have to really
16:38let it know who your business is. And I think
16:40where Salesforce is really
16:42benefiting here is, you know, we're
16:44managing
16:46a lot of data, you know,
16:48230, 300
16:50petabytes of data for our customers.
16:52And because that data is there, plus the
16:54metadata, you know, that metadata is
16:56like, data is a phone number.
16:58The metadata is, this is a phone number.
17:00So the AI, when it can get those two
17:02pieces of information, plus other things that we're
17:04able to feed it based on how you're
17:06using our platform, we've
17:08been able just to extend our platform.
17:10You know, AgentForce is just a switch
17:12you're turning on in Salesforce now.
17:14It's not something new you're installing
17:16or some new team you're hiring.
17:18And I think that that idea
17:20that it's easy for our customers just
17:22to turn this on now
17:24is very powerful. We have 135,000
17:26customers. We have given them
17:28all AgentForce. They all have the
17:30ability to turn it on today.
17:32And not all of them are going to do that, because
17:34either A, they don't have a desire, or B,
17:36they don't understand it, or C,
17:38you know, there might be some other
17:40situation where they're not ready in their
17:42business to do that. But we are
17:44seeing a very high
17:46rate of adoption where we're starting
17:48to see customers say, yes, I'm going to do
17:50this. And for new customers coming in,
17:52they're designing
17:54their systems and their companies
17:56agent-first. And I think
17:58that will be a big moment where you're really saying
18:00I'm designing my platform,
18:02my company, my industry
18:04to be agent-first.
18:06And that is a big thought.
18:08It's almost like, you know,
18:10when we talk about the automobile originally
18:12just replacing sort of the horse and buggy
18:14and once you get critical mass, then you
18:16start to reimagine how cities are
18:18designed, how work is designed. So
18:20I think it's exciting. You did mention
18:22hallucinogenic. I want to
18:24stop and pause there. Do you
18:26worry about that? Because
18:28obviously the sophistication
18:30of deep fakes,
18:32the risk of, you know,
18:34hallucinations, as we call them.
18:36How do you think about that? Well, this has
18:38been a very interesting process for us.
18:40Now, Salesforce not
18:42only builds agent-first,
18:44we build some of the most
18:46accurate and compelling
18:48models in the world, AI models.
18:50Two out of the five most accurate
18:52models are Salesforce models.
18:54We do that in our incredible AI engineering
18:56team. Salesforce is the number one
18:58provider of enterprise AI
19:00already in the world today. We will do
19:02over $2 trillion
19:04with a T transactions, AI
19:06transactions, this week
19:08with our
19:10platform, which is Einstein. Many people know
19:12Einstein and use it every day.
19:14Now, agent-first is kind of
19:16the next version above that, and it's
19:18new models, new techniques, new
19:20capabilities, and
19:22one of the reasons that we've been able to basically
19:24kind of grind hallucinogens
19:26down to zero
19:28in many cases, where we're
19:30seeing accuracy up in the 95,
19:3296, 97, 98 percent level
19:34on AI and
19:36agents is because we're
19:38grounding this data
19:40into the model itself,
19:42and that is a big
19:44capability that we have that
19:46others don't have, and we're
19:48really doing some
19:50cool things. I also have to say we
19:52have other techniques that we've created at
19:54Salesforce, including new RAG techniques,
19:56that's retrieval augmented generation,
19:58that's the ability for the AI
20:00to go out and get lots of data to ground
20:02itself, and we are
20:04able to do some cool stuff,
20:06and we're getting some great results, and again
20:08you can see it on our website,
20:10like help.salesforce.com that I mentioned,
20:12or if you go to salesforce.com
20:14on your phone, you'll see a test
20:16that I'm running right now where I'm running
20:18an ungrounded model as a
20:20front end of my website, and
20:22that idea of an agent on the front
20:24end of my website where you can just ask it
20:26about my products and even my competitors
20:28and product information has
20:30never really been done before, and
20:32that is really opening
20:34my mind in terms of all the new things
20:36that I can do with customers with a
20:38completely agent first website.
20:40It's interesting, I think the first time I saw
20:42you, you were holding up a Philips Sonic
20:44care brush, talking about how
20:46much it had improved
20:48your brushing and your teeth.
20:50You are the quintessential
20:52salesman for your own company
20:54and for your customers, and
20:56you know, I want to talk a bit about you
20:58as a leader. Let's start
21:00with that, what is
21:02the hallmark of sort of a great salesman?
21:04Because not every CEO
21:06has the mindset you do.
21:08Well, I think that number one
21:10is what the Japanese say
21:12Shoshin. Shoshin is the
21:14beginner's mind, and I think as a
21:16CEO, you've got a lot coming
21:18at you all the time. You know, you've got your text
21:20messages, your email messages, your one-on-ones,
21:22your operational reviews, your
21:24investors, your activist investors,
21:26your media.
21:28You know, there's a lot
21:30going on in the CEO life.
21:32And to
21:34those CEOs, I would say
21:36I've been doing this 25 years
21:38which is probably too long, Shoshin.
21:40That is, reclaim
21:42your beginner's mind. In your beginner's
21:44mind, you have every possibility, but
21:46in your expert's mind, you have few.
21:48And every day,
21:50are you starting with some practice
21:52mind as I have a meditation
21:54practice, prayer, you know,
21:56are we able to really have
21:58a beginner's mind and
22:00really look at things from the beginning?
22:02And I think in this example that we've
22:04been talking about, AgentForce,
22:06I need
22:08to have a beginner's mind because
22:10this is new. This is
22:12very different than anything that's ever
22:14happened before. It does not fit in
22:16existing models. Our models,
22:18and when I say models, I mean really
22:20business models. You know, it
22:22doesn't fit in our business models or
22:24you know, anything that I've seen
22:27in any other industry. So
22:29I need to have a beginner's mind, but this is
22:31something that I think every CO really
22:33needs to cultivate. And for those that get
22:35stuck and don't
22:37have a beginner's mind, they get in trouble
22:39because there's too many things
22:41happening too fast. And
22:43so if you are in that flow
22:45and you're in the river and you're
22:47fighting the river, you're going to have
22:49a problem. You've got to get into the flow
22:51of the river. And I do a lot of consulting
22:53with COs. You know, they will call me,
22:55and say, I've got this problem or that
22:57problem or this activist
22:59investor or this. And I'll
23:01try to give them, but in all cases
23:03I will tell them, hey,
23:05let's start really with your level of
23:07mindfulness and your mindset.
23:09Where are you? What do you really want?
23:11That is number one question in
23:13wherever we're going to start. What do you want
23:15and what's important to you? And let's just start
23:17there in your vision and your values
23:19and that is where I want
23:21to spend the time with you right now.
23:23That's something people like to talk about
23:25in public. I think your first book
23:27was Compassionate Capitalism. I know
23:29you've been very outspoken on a lot of
23:31social issues in San Francisco
23:33and elsewhere. We're
23:35entering a period right now
23:37with a different administration.
23:39You can certainly comment on that if you want, but
23:41what do you think
23:43about the state of society
23:45right now, Mark?
23:47Well, core values. You know, that's what we're really
23:49talking about. Society can have values
23:51and your business can have values and you can have values
23:53and when we look at administrations
23:55and presidents and, you know, this is the time
23:57of the year when I'll get that question from
23:59you know, on a podcast like this
24:01and I will say
24:03look, I've worked with a lot
24:05of presidents and a lot of administrations
24:07in a lot of countries
24:09all over the world and
24:11administrations change, presidents
24:13change, our core values don't change.
24:15We know who we are
24:17and this is the opportunity for all of us to like
24:19revisit. Who are you?
24:21What is your core value? We know
24:23Salesforce is about trust.
24:25That's number one. It's about customer success.
24:27It's about innovation. It's about
24:29equality. It's about
24:31sustainability and those values
24:33are not going to change. That's what's important
24:35to us and our employees or we call them
24:37our ohana, you know, which is the
24:39Hawaiian word for family.
24:41This idea that we
24:43believe that the business
24:45of business is not business
24:47but it's the business of business is changing
24:49the world and that
24:51business is the greatest platform for change.
24:53This is our core values
24:55and our mindset at Salesforce and
24:57look, we realize technology is not
24:59good or bad. It's what you're doing with this
25:01technology that matters and the
25:03technology is constantly changing. It's constantly
25:05getting lower cost and easier to use
25:07and we have
25:09to then apply that to make the world
25:11somehow better and
25:13that's what we're doing
25:15with our lives and with our company
25:17and that's what we've been doing.
25:19I think personal values
25:21don't change and I guess
25:23I was thinking more about the landscape
25:25where you've been
25:27a pioneer I think in the gender
25:29pay equity. You've been
25:31outspoken on LGBTQ plus
25:33rights, homelessness,
25:35abortion rights. I mean
25:37it does feel like there's a lot of people
25:39right now who may be
25:41shocked, might be
25:43too strong a word, but how do you
25:45talk about this or do you talk about
25:47this internally to your employees?
25:49Is it just about recapturing
25:51your corporate values and
25:53society will take care of itself?
25:55It's a funny thing. You know, I think
25:57that a lot of people think, oh
25:59he's this political persuasion
26:01or he's this party and he's
26:03interested in this issue and
26:05really none of those things are true
26:07and it's funny. I won't correct people even on
26:09social media when they said, well you know he's
26:11this political party and I'm like
26:13I'm really not but I'm not going to talk
26:15about that right now.
26:17Because the most important thing
26:19for me as a CEO is
26:21that I have my employees back.
26:23So, you know, in
26:25regards to changes that are happening
26:27in our country and in the states
26:29and if we
26:31have an employee who is being discriminated
26:33against in a state, which has
26:35happened, you know, and is going to happen
26:37I will say to them
26:39and they will complain and they'll say, you need to get
26:41involved and you need to call my governor and
26:43you need to do this and you need to do that and I'm like
26:45listen, I'm going to be able to do some
26:47things but I'm not going to be able to do everything
26:49but I'll tell you one thing I can do
26:51which is, we have a big company
26:53we have offices in all the
26:55states and in all the countries, where would
26:57you like to move? And if you're
26:59not happy there because of a change going on
27:01with these laws or this politician
27:03or this political philosophy
27:05we will move you.
27:07And I think that that is probably
27:09the most empowering thing that I can do
27:11as a CEO
27:13for my employees and I think at a moment
27:15like this, I already know
27:17what's going to happen. It's going to be very tumultuous
27:19and it'll be tumultuous
27:21in our conferences and we'll be accused
27:23of things and we're supporting this and
27:25we're supporting that but at the end of the day
27:27the one
27:29group that we must support is
27:31our employees and that
27:33is where my mindset will be because
27:35I already know what's about to
27:37unfold because
27:39we will be accused of
27:41being complicit in something that I
27:43don't even know what's about to happen because
27:45the US government is our customer
27:47so of course we have this
27:49agency XYZ running
27:51Salesforce and all of a sudden we'll
27:53be complicit in some action that
27:55someone will not like because
27:57we are a vendor and
27:59of course that's not true
28:01and we're not, the US government's
28:03going to be our customer no matter who
28:05is the president or
28:07what administration is in place.
28:09Less regulation at a time of
28:11innovation is not necessarily a
28:13bad thing as we head into the next
28:15but you're right, there's no upside
28:17in discussing partisan politics
28:19but I do think about just the
28:21mindset of customers
28:23and you're out in California
28:25so I know that you
28:27that's one of the reasons you built Salesforce Tower
28:29in downtown San Francisco was to
28:31develop it as a hub
28:33I'm a fourth generation
28:35San Francisco, I was
28:37born in San Francisco and so
28:39San Francisco has influenced
28:41my life, you know, we are
28:43the home of
28:45you know, Levi's
28:47you know, the Gold Rush
28:49you know, but we're
28:51also the home of the Son of Love
28:53we're the home of gay rights
28:55you know, I grew up in that
28:57culture and that world
28:59and maybe that explains
29:01some of my views
29:03today San Francisco is a more important city
29:05than any other in the world because we're also
29:07the home of AI
29:09and we have all the top AI
29:11companies in San Francisco
29:13including Salesforce and
29:15others and look
29:17San Francisco is an innovative city
29:19we're a creative city, we're a
29:21place, you know, hate
29:23Ashbury, you know, there's a lot has happened
29:25in San Francisco
29:27a lot could have happened in San Francisco
29:29going forward and sometimes it goes well
29:31and sometimes it does not go well
29:33and then
29:35you know, San Franciscans have always been
29:37ones who have kind of come in to say
29:39hey, we're going to support the hospital, we're going
29:41to support the public schools, we're going to support
29:43the public parks, we are
29:45going to help
29:47somebody who's homeless, yes, we're going to do
29:49all of those things, that doesn't make you
29:51a Democrat or a Republican, it makes you a human
29:53being, if you're actually going to
29:55go make sure people are educated
29:57healthy and have shelter
29:59so I would say that that is incredibly
30:01important right now
30:03It's interesting, I think about your book
30:05Trailblazer
30:07I think that's your fourth book, right?
30:09Are you going to write a fifth one with AI?
30:11I suppose I should ask that first
30:13I would like to write another book, I don't have time
30:15I am making some notes on what I would say
30:17if I did write a new book
30:19and if I get a little time, maybe I'll be able to start
30:21working on it, but it does take a lot of time
30:23to write a book
30:25That's what agents are for, I suppose, right?
30:27One of the many things we can use them for
30:29I do want to kind of
30:31end off by asking a bit about
30:33where you get the joy
30:35in your job, you mentioned the 25 years
30:37with Salesforce, I know before that
30:39you had 13 years at Oracle
30:41you had your own, as you say
30:43since you've been a teenager, you've been entrepreneurial
30:45What is it that you
30:47think about right now
30:49that really
30:51lights up your eyes
30:53and fills your heart when you go to work
30:55and I know you work from home
30:57Well, I can tell you the joy at work is fleeting
30:59because it could
31:01be a lot of good days and a lot of bad days
31:03but I'm going more for the fulfillment
31:05I want to have
31:07look at my career
31:09and say that I
31:11was able to not just
31:13make a successful business
31:15but also to
31:17have a business that
31:19improved the state of the world
31:21and that some of those
31:23things that we've been able to do
31:25for others and give back
31:27those are the things that I think
31:29that have really been powerful
31:31All the new products and all the new technology
31:33and the continuum of innovation
31:35and the continuum of customer success
31:37are extremely important to me
31:39but I would say
31:41the continuum of giving
31:43is equally as important to me
31:45and looking back over 25 years
31:47as CEO of Salesforce
31:49I would say that is maybe
31:51the most important thing and maybe
31:53in many cases the most differentiated
31:55against other companies or what other
31:57CEOs have done
31:59and I guess one of the most fulfilling
32:01things is 20,000
32:03companies have now
32:05copied our 1-1-1
32:07model and that has been
32:09great because I think every
32:11company and every business culture
32:13can benefit from this
32:15idea. Do you know 80,000
32:17companies have the term AI
32:19in their name now. Wow
32:21that's cool. That's a statistic that wows me
32:23but may I ask one other
32:25question if you don't mind because I have
32:27three kids that have ADHD
32:29I know you've talked about that and
32:31I remember doing a book with
32:33John Chambers where he talked about dyslexia
32:35which is now seen to be such an advantage
32:37in business. So many entrepreneurs have
32:39dyslexia. I don't
32:41hear that conversation around
32:43ADHD
32:45I'm just curious
32:47you know how you
32:49work differently
32:51knowing that that's just part
32:53of who you are. Obviously nobody questions
32:55your success or your
32:57vision but I think it
32:59actually matters a lot to
33:01how people perceive themselves when they hear
33:03they have something like that. Well I think that
33:05you know there's many different kinds of minds
33:07and this is number one there's many
33:09different kinds of human beings and this is
33:11we have to value
33:13the diversity of our
33:15genetics. It's kind
33:17of amazing you know it's one of the
33:19great gifts of
33:21the world that we have this
33:23genetic diversity and so
33:25I think that we have
33:27to start there and when it comes to different
33:29kinds of minds you can have different labels
33:31you know somebody might have ADHD
33:33or ADD or OCD
33:35or dyslexia
33:37I think in all cases
33:39you know I think getting some self awareness
33:41around what kind of mind
33:43you have or
33:45what you're trying to accomplish
33:47I'll come back to
33:49mindfulness. I think that this idea
33:51of mindfulness and prayer and meditation
33:53and having those moments
33:55during the day to kind of right size
33:57and align with your values
33:59and what's important to you
34:01and really look
34:03at what's preventing you from being
34:05successful or how will you know that you are successful
34:08and keeping track of those things and
34:10having some kind of a north star
34:12of where you're going with your life because it does
34:14go quickly and
34:16what you really want to do is have
34:18some clarity of hey I'm going here
34:20so when I look back at
34:22my career over 40 years
34:24in software I'm like wow
34:26yeah I've accomplished I think almost every
34:28single thing I've set out to do
34:30and when I haven't accomplished something
34:32I usually get to the point
34:34where I say wow that was never a goal
34:36you know when I put my mind
34:38to it I tend to get there
34:40you know I love Stephen Covey
34:42who's no longer with us, he's an amazing
34:44leader who said begin
34:46with the end in mind
34:48and I think that's a really key phrase
34:50for all of us in business or
34:52in life and I think when we look
34:54at our different types of minds
34:56all of us regardless
34:58of the type of mind you have
35:00have intention that is
35:02you have to be able to ask that question
35:04what do you want, what is your intention
35:06the Japanese call it ishi
35:08what is it that you exactly
35:10want, where are you
35:12exactly going
35:14because for the most part
35:16regardless of the type of mind you have
35:18if you can set your goal
35:20you're probably going to go there
35:22if you focus on it continuously
35:24persistently every
35:26single minute of every single day
35:28that's great and is there any question
35:30that well I should have of course asked
35:32about time
35:34now former sister publication
35:36now I suppose rival publication
35:38I'm not sure if you enjoy being
35:40a media owner so you can comment on that
35:42but anything else that
35:44I haven't asked that I should have Mark
35:46well I've enjoyed
35:48being with time
35:50media is a difficult business
35:52I've learned a lot I guess that's what
35:54I've enjoyed the most is how much I've learned
35:56with the magazine I even published
35:58a piece today
36:00on digital workers and digital workforce
36:02you can find it on my twitter feed
36:04and look I think that this is just
36:06an incredible moment
36:08where you know we
36:10need to like just appreciate
36:12how much is happening in the world
36:14and the amount of
36:16change that's going on and
36:18find our place in it and then go forward
36:20I will get back to that thought
36:22there's never been a more important
36:24time to have absolute clarity on what
36:26you really want because if you
36:28write it down I think you will definitely
36:30achieve it and
36:32with everything that's happening we can get
36:34lost in our minds or get lost in our
36:36emotions and we need to
36:38get back you know to our intention
36:40great it's a pleasure
36:42to speak with you thank you for joining us
36:44great to be with you always