Carlos Damin, director del Hospital Fernández y experto en toxicología, explica el uso de la droga conocida como burundanga (escopolamina) por parte de una organización criminal para atacar a jubilados. Los afectados son forzados a caminar durante una hora bajo los efectos de la droga, sin recordar nada después. Se discute también el uso del midazolam, un sedante que deja a las víctimas incapacitadas tras 20-30 minutos.
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00:00We are here with Carlos Damin, director of the Fernández Hospital,
00:03he was the director of the toxicology sector.
00:06Carlos, how are you? Pablo Ponzonete speaking, good afternoon.
00:09How are you, good afternoon, how are you?
00:11Good, thank you. Worried, Carlos, I tell you the truth,
00:13because we are observing here in one of the cases of the day,
00:17and there are already several cases, but in this particular one,
00:20that there is an organization that is using Burundanga to attack retirees,
00:26they walk for an hour with them, they put them in the house,
00:30they take them out of the house, and they are permanently under the effects of this drug
00:34and they don't remember anything.
00:36Can you explain to us what this drug is about?
00:38We have asked you many times, but we had never seen something so wild, right?
00:43No, without a doubt.
00:44But let's see, Burundanga is usually called a substance
00:48that is produced from a plant that is the Floripondio,
00:54and actually the chemical name, the pharmaceutical name is scopolamine.
00:59Scopolamine, right?
01:00Exactly.
01:01It is very unlikely that scopolamine is used for this,
01:05because it generates many more manifestations.
01:08Increased heart rate, a lot of tachycardia, palpitations,
01:13the person feels that they are not in a condition to walk.
01:17What we have seen very often is that these types of situations
01:21occur with the same type of medication that black widows use.
01:27Black widows.
01:28Black widows, exactly.
01:29With benzodiazepines.
01:31Exactly, which is normally a benzodiazepine,
01:34the most used is the Midazolam,
01:37which causes an alteration in the state of consciousness
01:41and is also accompanied by amnesia.
01:44The person then does not remember anything that happened.
01:49But this product you are talking about,
01:53can it be impregnated in a paper?
01:56No, definitely not.
01:58But what happens here, Carlos,
02:00I tell you why it is believed to be Burundanga,
02:02obviously you know more, but I tell you the picture.
02:05The woman is made to open a book,
02:07and when she opens the book and touches the paper,
02:10she begins to feel bad.
02:12There is no previous contact with the woman until that moment.
02:15What can it be if it is not?
02:16The question is that it strikes me that she remembers this fact
02:19and does not remember the rest.
02:21I do not know the case,
02:23but normally people,
02:25when they use some of these products,
02:27have total amnesia of what happened.
02:30Of course.
02:31He does not remember that they gave him a book
02:33or that they gave him something.
02:34That is, amnesia is prior to the moment of contact.
02:38Exactly, it is prior.
02:41And I also tell you,
02:42there is no substance
02:44that simply by smelling or touching
02:48produces alterations in the state of consciousness.
02:50There is no such thing.
02:51No.
02:52There is no such thing, a myth.
02:53Carlos.
02:54Go ahead, let's see.
02:55Very well.
02:56Phytobacke, the midazolam,
02:57does it allow you to walk, walk,
02:59or do you directly iron yourself?
03:01Because all the experience I have with the midazolam,
03:04that has happened to the client,
03:05he irons them, he leaves them there,
03:07lying down.
03:09Normally he ends up ironing them
03:11for a few minutes,
03:13which can go between 20 and 30 minutes.
03:16After that time,
03:17the person is totally ironed
03:19and can no longer walk.
03:21But in the first few minutes,
03:23not only can he,
03:24but in addition to those minutes,
03:26he does not remember.
03:28That is to say that we would be confusing
03:31if we talk about burundanga in this case.
03:34What happens is that when we talk about burundanga,
03:37burundanga is used in many cases
03:40for other types of things,
03:42such as tourism,
03:44what people do with shamans.
03:46So that substance used for these things
03:49is attributed to what is used
03:52for criminal purposes.
03:55And that is why we toxicologists
03:57believe,
03:58we disbelieve that it is scopolamine.
04:01We always assume that it has to do
04:03with a benzodiazepine.
04:05Anyway,
04:06Carlos.
04:07Many times we have made determinations
04:10in urine,
04:11and what is found
04:12is a derivative of benzodiazepine.
04:14Carlos,
04:15then there are three questions here.
04:17The first is from this lady
04:19who remembers when opening the book
04:22that it would not be the rule.
04:25The second question
04:27and basic would be
04:29that you do not know
04:31that by touching or inhaling
04:34there is some substance
04:36that generates this effect.
04:38Is this so?
04:39Exactly.
04:40How striking.
04:41Look, just on the screen we are seeing
04:44the plant we are talking about,
04:46the floripondio,
04:47which is also a plant that is everywhere.
04:50Absolutely.
04:51It is a plant that anyone,
04:53and obviously it is used because
04:56there is a myth around this,
04:58Carlos,
04:59you usually knock down myths.
05:02Absolutely.
05:03I think there is a myth
05:04that it is very likely
05:05that some other fact may have occurred
05:08that probably the victim does not remember
05:11where they have made her ingest something
05:14and that neither of that has a record.
05:17But it is not through inhaling
05:19nor is it through touching.
05:21Very well.
05:22We have been talking about this for many years.
05:24Very well.
05:25In fact, there are many bibliographies written about it.
05:27But there it is, Carlos.
05:29Why is this situation recurrent
05:32that people think they touched?
05:34What leads them?
05:35Because it is not the first person to believe.
05:37What is it that you have dealt with these patients?
05:40Why do they believe that they inhaled or touched?
05:43Is it because of memory loss?
05:45So did the memory of that issue
05:47have something to do with it?
05:49Normally, no one can,
05:51no person, when one speaks,
05:53can forcefully deny
05:55that they have ingested something.
05:57Of course.
05:58Okay.
05:59Of course, of course, of course.
06:00So you believe that in reality
06:02it was because they gave him something to drink, basically.
06:04Exactly.
06:05And he doesn't remember it.
06:06And he doesn't remember it, that's why.
06:07Let's see, Lourdes, are you there?
06:09Are you still with us?
06:10Yes, I'm here.
06:11Well, what do you think?
06:12Yes, yes, it's amazing.
06:13Are you satisfied with what Carlos is telling you?
06:15Carlos is the number one of this.
06:17Yes, no, no, I don't doubt it.
06:19And it may have happened,
06:22what the doctor says.
06:25Because the truth is that no ...
06:27You have to see what happened at that time
06:29that they were with my mom,
06:31that they grabbed her.
06:32Of course.
06:33And they let her drink something
06:34at the moment when she was already in that state.
06:37Because, Lourdes,
06:38it's for you to inquire with your mom
06:40where she was before that,
06:43because in the middle they have made her touch,
06:45already when she was in a state of insomnia
06:48or in this state that is taking you,
06:50they have made her touch something
06:52and she was registered in her memory
06:54because one of the last things
06:56that she remembers,
06:57but maybe you have to look before.
07:00Where had she been before?
07:02In my house.
07:04In your house.
07:05In your house.
07:06Exactly.
07:07Yes, yes, like every day
07:08and she was doing ...
07:10I'm sorry,
07:11this situation generates a lot of mystery to me, Carlos.
07:15That's why we are with the issue of the complaint
07:18to see what exactly happened
07:20and we are asking the municipalities' chambers
07:23to send us ...
07:25All the way.
07:26Where and how it was
07:28and that time, where they were,
07:31how they did it.
07:32Well, I want to go back to Carlos.
07:34Don't go, Lourdes,
07:35I want to continue talking to you.
07:36I want to go back to Carlos Dami.
07:37I thank you.
07:38Contact again.
07:39I tell you, Carlos,
07:40and you open the door
07:41to a true mystery for us
07:42because you say,
07:44and surely because I know you know,
07:46that this was not Burundanga
07:48but a Bensodea Cepina.
07:50Something similar,
07:51I don't know if you saw the information
07:52regarding the Mexicans
07:53who were attacked by Black Widows.
07:55Would they have used the same drug?
07:57They could have used it.
07:59It is likely that they could have used
08:01or an analogue,
08:03a very similar substance,
08:05but always pharmacological.
08:07Very good, very good.
08:08Carlos, I thank you for this information
08:10and let's continue breaking myths.
08:12It's very good.
08:13A pleasure, thank you.
08:15We return to Diego de Nicolás live
08:17and for me it is a bigger mystery still.
08:20We are going to solve it, Pablo.
08:22Hopefully, hopefully.
08:23Because the cameras,
08:24what we are going to ask Lourdes
08:26is that we continue with this.
08:28Because the cameras are going to show us
08:30what happened
08:31and we are going to be able to categorize
08:33what the woman remembered.
08:34If they could have given her something,
08:35a gum,
08:36No, no doubt, Pablo.
08:37a tomato, something.
08:39It's impressive, it's impressive.