Scottish Labour leader, Anas Sarwar speaks to The Scotsman's deputy political editor, David Bol.
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00:00Look, we've engaged in good faith on the budget process. Michael Marra has several meetings
00:14both with Ivan McKee and also with the Finance Secretary Shona Robison and the point that
00:19we've expressed to them privately but also publicly is they need to focus less on the
00:23inputs and more on the outcomes. We need to see a new direction from this government and
00:28you heard it today from the Audit Scotland report. No leadership, a lack of a strategic
00:32plan, no delivery plan and what does that mean? That means poorer outcomes for the people
00:36of Scotland. So it's less about where they spend the money, it's more about how they
00:40spend the money and the how is sadly still missing.
00:43You're quite close to Alec O'Hampton, you've talked about maybe working with him in the
00:47future. Would you prefer him to back a deal to get this budget through or surely you don't
00:52want an election that will give the polling isn't too strong for Labour?
00:56Well, let me say two things about that. One, it's for the Liberal Democrats to decide
00:59how they choose to vote in any vote in Parliament including on the budget. And the second one,
01:04I'll take an election tomorrow. I'm ready for an election, the country's ready for an
01:09election, the country's desperate to get rid of the SNP, the country's desperate for a
01:12new direction. And for all the SNP who might want to point at any individual poll, let's
01:17look at the polls that have actually happened. All the by-elections have happened since the
01:21general election where the SNP is losing in every part of the country and they've actually
01:26lost 18 by-elections in a row. So, I don't fear an election, I relish an election, I'm
01:31desperate for an election, I can't wait for another election.
01:34You must appreciate the polls had you quite far ahead of the SNP at Holyrood and some
01:39of the tough decisions at Westminster have meant that that isn't the case anymore. Surely
01:43you'd be going to an election not favoured to win?
01:46Well, look, I'd put it this way. As a former dentist, I've been the first to recognise
01:51that there's been teething problems in the early days of a UK Labour government. But
01:55I think people can see that all the UK's problems didn't start four and a half months ago with
02:00the election of a Labour government and not all the UK's problems will be solved with
02:03one Labour budget or indeed with four and a half months of a Labour government. And
02:07when it comes to the choice, in 2026, perhaps even before, when it comes to the choice of
02:13what happens in the future of Scotland, we will have a decision to make. Do we want to
02:16carry on with what will be almost two decades of SNP failure and decline or do we want to
02:21take this country in a new direction? And I'm confident that a new direction is what
02:25will win and the only way we deliver that new direction for Scotland is if we elect
02:29a Scottish Labour government.
02:30On tax, you've been quite clear that you think the tax burden is too high in Scotland. Do
02:33you think that SNP ministers should start to bring that tax burden down to have a level
02:38playing field with the rest of the UK?
02:40I think we've got to get the balance right. I think given that we have £5 billion of
02:43additional money coming for the Scottish government to spend, then I don't think they
02:47need to look at income tax as a way of raising additional revenue. I think we also have to
02:52look at how we have end waste in the government and we spend money better. And I do want to
02:57see the tax burden come down in Scotland but I think we've got to get the balance right.
03:00So we've got to get growth into the economy, we've got to use the fruits of that growth
03:04to reform our public services, to take that new direction we need as a country and then
03:08of course to bring down the tax burden as well. So I think all of this has to be done
03:12in a balanced approach and it wouldn't be appropriate, it wouldn't be right in fact,
03:15for me to write a budget for what I hope will be an incoming Scottish Labour government
03:19probably in 2026. I hope it's up to the good people of Scotland though.
03:22And on council tax, obviously the threes last year was very controversial, you opposed it
03:26as did many people. Should SNP ministers let councils raise that unlimited amount? Obviously
03:32councils, some of them are planning to raise it by sort of 10% double figures. Should there
03:37be limits on what councils could raise?
03:40So again what's really important here is this all depends on the quantum and the deal
03:45that goes to local government. So what's happened in recent years is the SNP has cut local government
03:51budgets year after year after year and then imposed a council tax freeze on those same
03:56local authorities meaning that they had to make even deeper cuts to local public services.
04:01So if we want to keep council tax bills low, and I don't think it would be appropriate
04:05to have a freeze this year, but if we do want to keep council tax low, then the Scottish
04:10government has to give a fair funding settlement to local government and they have £5bn of
04:15additional money to spend over the course of this year and next year. So give a fair
04:20funding deal to local government, meaning that they don't then have to pass on huge
04:25increases in council tax to local people.
04:27And finally on winter fuel, the SNP have kind of got your number here haven't they? They've
04:31put forward their plans for next winter. Is this quite embarrassing for Scottish Labour
04:36having to sort of defend what's happened in Westminster?
04:38Look I've always said that I think the threshold of pension credit is too low. I've always
04:43thought that we could do it differently here in Scotland given that this was supposed to
04:46be a devolved benefit this year. We identified a new approach that could have been taken
04:50in Scotland, we even identified the money. £41m of household support fund money that
04:55is designed to go to low income households to support them with their bills that isn't
05:00actually passed on in Scotland. We could have used that money to take a different approach
05:04here in Scotland but instead the SNP chose to hand the power back to Westminster. So
05:08I've been really clear that the Scottish Labour government would take the power back from
05:11the DWP, would reinstate the winter fuel payment and create a system that guarantees all those
05:16that need support get it. That's a new approach we could take here in Scotland. It's meant
05:19to be a devolved benefit, it's a fair deal for pensioners, it's a fair deal for Scotland
05:23that I'm interested in fighting for.