MEDI1TV Afrique : Appel Royal au cessez-le-feu en Palestine - Trêve des hostilités au Liban - 28/11/2024
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00:00Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, this is Le Proche-Orient, a royal call to cease fire
00:18in Palestine and the end of hostilities in Lebanon.
00:22Here is the menu for this episode.
00:24We will come back first on the message addressed by His Majesty King Mohammed VI on the occasion
00:29of the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian people, celebrated this year
00:34on November 26.
00:35So yesterday, the sovereign took this opportunity to call on the whole world to mobilize urgently
00:41to cease the immediate and lasting fire in Palestine, because the urgency is there.
00:45We must end the attacks in Sijordani, protect civilians and restore dignity
00:50in a region that has been subjected to violence for too long.
00:54Beyond the humanitarian urgency, Morocco imposes itself as a credible mediator,
00:58enjoying its privileged relations with the main occupying parties and the great international powers.
01:06And the hope of the end of the Gaza massacres is reborn after the entry into force of a ceasefire
01:10between Israel and the Hezbollah.
01:12It was decided these last two days, officially announced.
01:19Hope in the eyes of thousands of Lebanese returning to the south, which they have deserted
01:24for two months following the Israeli bombing.
01:27According to the American president, the truce is designed to be a permanent cessation of hostilities.
01:32Hostilities that have already killed 3,400 people in Lebanon, not to mention more than 44,000 victims
01:41in the Gaza Strip and in the rest of the Palestinian territories since October 7, 2023.
01:51For the debate tonight, I welcome Nidal Choukair,
01:54Professor of Strategic Communication and Governmental Relations.
01:58Good evening, Professor Choukair, thank you for joining us from Paris.
02:03Good evening, thank you for the invitation, we are delighted to be with you once again.
02:06Hello.
02:08And we have with us here from Casablanca this time,
02:10the Director of the Institute of Juridical, Political and Social Sciences at the Université mondiale de la Police,
02:15Professor Alil Harichi, good evening and welcome to you as well.
02:18Good evening, it's a pleasure to be with you.
02:22Back with you first, Professor Alil Harichi, on this important message addressed by His Majesty the King,
02:28to the President of the United Nations Committee for the exercise of inalienable rights of the Palestinian people,
02:34on the occasion of the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People.
02:38And once again, Morocco bears the pledge of allegiance to the Palestinian cause in international institutions.
02:46And back with you, Alil Harichi, on the essential points to remember from this message addressed by the Sovereign.
02:56First of all, the message of His Majesty the King Mohammed VI,
03:00he once again reaffirms Morocco's inalienable position
03:05in relation to the centrality of the Palestinian question for peace,
03:10for security, for stability in the Middle East region.
03:14And of course, within the framework that is accepted by the international community,
03:21that of two states, that is, the 1967 resolution.
03:25And in the message of His Majesty, he emphasized six very important points,
03:31which you have mentioned a few.
03:33First, it is the ceasefire.
03:34An immediate ceasefire must be reached, which extends over time.
03:40That is, we will not have other different, other countries.
03:45A ceasefire must be sustainable in relation to what is happening in Gaza.
03:51We have more than 44,000 dead, civilians, people who have been displaced.
03:58The second point is the protection of civilians,
04:00because we see that unfortunately those who pay the price of this invasion of Israel, of Gaza, are the civilians.
04:09We are talking about more than 44,000 dead.
04:11We are talking about schools that are closed, universities too.
04:15And then displaced people.
04:17The third point is to open all the doors and points of passage for humanitarian aid,
04:25because a population of 2.5 million or 2.2 million people
04:30who are enclosed in the Gaza region, in this 41-kilometer bomb,
04:35we must open the points of passage for humanitarian aid.
04:39Whether it is medical, whether it is food, all humanitarian aid.
04:44So the points of passage must be open in relation to the Gaza bomb.
04:51Finally, there is also the support of the UN mission,
04:55that is, the mission of UNRWA.
04:57It must be supported, it must be strengthened.
05:00There is a fifth point, it is the displacement of citizens.
05:04It is unacceptable that today, still, Palestinian citizens who live in Gaza,
05:10who were asked to go from the north to the south,
05:14and then who were asked to return to the center and then to the north,
05:17people no longer know where to go.
05:20And then we must start serious negotiations to achieve a lasting peace,
05:26a peace that is in time for Palestine, but also for the entire Middle East.
05:33Speaking of negotiations, Ali El-Herechi,
05:36what could be the role of mediation in the Kingdom of Morocco,
05:40given its privileged relations with the parties involved,
05:45but also with the great international powers?
05:49Morocco is a country that has the credibility of the international community.
05:55As you just said, it has very important relations,
05:58whether with the countries that weigh at the level of the international community,
06:02whether at the level of the Security Council or at the level of the United Nations,
06:07and then privileged relations with the Palestinians,
06:12with the Palestinian Authority, and also with Israel.
06:19So Morocco has the possibility of being an actor of peace, a provider of peace.
06:27And Morocco's position, His Majesty has highlighted it in his message,
06:33Morocco has been able to provide humanitarian aid three times,
06:39because of this privileged position it has in the region,
06:43and it is three times since October 7
06:47that Morocco is one of the few countries that has been able to cross the borders
06:51to provide humanitarian aid.
06:53Today, Morocco is a powerhouse of peace,
06:56and Morocco is also a bearer of the United Nations,
07:00to be with the countries that weigh at the level of the international community,
07:05but also with those concerned,
07:08and who must sit down at a negotiating table.
07:11And I think that this message is very important.
07:15And today, neither international law, nor humanitarian law,
07:22nor even morality, as it has been highlighted,
07:24can no longer stand what is happening in Gaza.
07:28Fortunately, there is also the truce in Lebanon,
07:31since everything that has happened in Lebanon has been going on for two months.
07:35So this catastrophe, the civilians who are dead,
07:38so a negotiating table where we will arrive, I hope,
07:42we all hope for a lasting peace in the Middle East region.
07:49Professor Nidal Shoukair, this has just been mentioned by Professor El-Harichi.
07:55We are now talking about a truce.
07:58This is not a permanent ceasefire,
08:01although the American president since the White House
08:04said that this truce was designed to be, I quote,
08:07a permanent cessation of hostilities.
08:10But we can say it today,
08:12the hostilities have stopped since 4 a.m. last night,
08:17the time at which this truce was decided.
08:20Of course, it was welcomed with joy
08:24in the streets of the different Lebanese cities of Beirut,
08:28and especially the cities of the south,
08:31which are already starting to welcome those who had fled them
08:34for eight weeks, sorry,
08:37since the beginning of the Israeli bombings.
08:41So first, a state of affairs since the start of this truce,
08:46and then we will also discuss the reasons
08:49that could have pushed the Israeli Prime Minister to accept this truce.
08:56First of all, as you have well indicated, this is not the end of the truce.
09:01Even today, there were a lot of hostilities.
09:04The Israeli hostilities towards Lebanon have not stopped,
09:09especially in the south of the country.
09:13Is that good? Yes, it's very good.
09:15But is that enough? No, it's not enough.
09:17Because you have spoken well about lasting peace,
09:22and that's what everyone is looking for, and that's not the case.
09:25So even if there is an agreement now, it will not end.
09:28It will not end, and it will never end.
09:31We have, you remember, from 2006, the 2006 war, before the 95,
09:36so every few years it will come back.
09:38They need, in my opinion, a radical solution to this problem today.
09:43So to really impose a lasting peace, we need two things.
09:48We need, first of all, to find a solution for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
09:53That is very important.
09:55And the second thing, we also need to make an agreement,
09:58to impose an agreement with Iran for its role in the region,
10:04because it has a not very nice role in Lebanon, Yemen, and Iraq.
10:10So, in my opinion, without these two conditions,
10:13lasting peace is impossible in this region.
10:16We have a lot of hope with the new Donald Trump administration,
10:23which can impose this kind of radical solution.
10:27But, well, it's a bit complicated, because it's a conflict that's not easy.
10:36It's not easy to convince both sides to have a solution.
10:41And even today, we saw, unfortunately, I don't know if you watched,
10:47the two parties, Israel said that it won, Alhamdulillah, it won.
10:54– Yes, indeed, it's an information war too, it's part of this war.
10:59But is it that, finally, Netanyahu,
11:04not to mention who won or who lost,
11:07was pressured to accept the deal of a ceasefire,
11:12or at least a truce in Lebanon today?
11:14If so, what would have been his reasons, in your opinion?
11:19– Well, in my opinion, he did what he wanted to do.
11:22In my opinion, he did what he could for Hezbollah.
11:28He must also be reasonable, he can't erase Hezbollah.
11:37Even if he continues for 100 years to erase Hezbollah, to eliminate Hezbollah,
11:43he must stop supporting Tehran.
11:45This is not the case today.
11:47So, in my opinion, Netanyahu did what he could.
11:50He killed most of Hezbollah's leaders, he destroyed many things.
11:56So, he did a lot of things, so it's no use for him to continue,
12:01because even this war is not free, it costs a lot.
12:06So, he was forced, in my opinion, to stop at a certain point.
12:12But there is a very important point, the ceasefire, the agreement.
12:19It's very ambiguous, I don't know if it's really totally or partially stopped,
12:25because you see, there are many points in this agreement that are not at all clear.
12:33For example, the Lebanese French minister says that Israel has no right to intervene,
12:39but Israel says no, it has the right to intervene during this period.
12:45So, the situation is not very clear, but in my opinion, on both sides,
12:52for Hezbollah and for Netanyahu, it was a good thing to have this crazy dream.
12:59– Alir Hreshi, always, it was a good thing to have this dream now.
13:03First, there are international pressures, we have the United States,
13:07because, first, on the international front,
13:10before we talk about the internal front in Israel,
13:13there are the leading parties, essentially Paris and Washington,
13:19who have worked with other partners to get to this ceasefire.
13:26Are there American guarantees today for this ceasefire,
13:31or this dream, to be respected on the one hand?
13:33So, is there a way to put pressure on Netanyahu so that he respects this dream?
13:39And also, what are the other exogenous factors that could have played in favor of this ceasefire?
13:48– Yes, I think that the United States today,
13:51in relation to the dream or the ceasefire that took place between Lebanon, if you will, and Israel.
13:58And the United States, or President Biden, plus France too,
14:03have put all their weight to have peace at the level of Lebanon.
14:08Netanyahu, if you will, my colleague talked about ambiguity,
14:15it is true that there is a form of ambiguity, but there is a difference with Gaza.
14:18When we talk about Lebanon or the conflict between Lebanon and Israel,
14:23there is already a 1701 resolution, which is an agreement,
14:27that is to say, the 1701 resolution since 2006, and which puts how,
14:32that is to say, it is a bit, what has been done in this agreement,
14:35is to take the revision to the point of this 1701 resolution.
14:40That is to say that Israel withdraws from the south of Lebanon,
14:43that Hezbollah goes to the level of the Italian river,
14:49goes up to the north of Italy and that there is a demarcation line
14:51where there are the forces of the United Nations who were there, so the Finul.
14:59What is for the region, for Lebanon,
15:03is that the difference with Gaza is that Netanyahu negotiates with the Lebanese government.
15:11In Gaza, there is already Hamas and there is the Palestinian Authority.
15:16With whom should the negotiation be made?
15:20Normally, it should be done with everyone.
15:22But compared to Lebanon, it is with, that is to say, Hezbollah
15:28has allowed the Lebanese government to negotiate this agreement.
15:33This is what facilitated the arrival of a truce,
15:38but also, it must be said that there were deaths in Lebanon, civilians,
15:43there were many deaths, more than 3,400 deaths,
15:46but there were also attacks in northern Israel.
15:51So that's what weighed a little on Netanyahu
15:56to reach this agreement or this truce.
16:01Because he is also affected, that is to say, Israel is affected at the northern level
16:05by the shots fired by Hezbollah.
16:08We are talking about 8,000 houses hit by missiles, 60,000 displaced.
16:14So there, indeed, you evoke the pressure
16:16that the Israeli Prime Minister could or would also suffer from within the country.
16:22Absolutely.
16:23It is among the things that pushed to reach this agreement,
16:28especially since it is the Lebanese government that is there.
16:31It is a state that is not under occupation, as is the case with Gaza or the Palestinian Authority.
16:38It is a state that is independent.
16:40And so there was also what was called the strategy of the front unit deployed by Hezbollah.
16:49We talked about Iran, so the front unit of Hamas,
16:53of the Houthis in Yemen, of some groups also at the level of Iraq,
16:58and support from Iran.
17:00And this strategy of the front, that is to say, Hezbollah said that
17:04as long as Israel does not withdraw from Gaza, it will not have an agreement.
17:08Now it is as if this strategy of unity is no longer there.
17:13That is to say, Hezbollah has accepted because it has also been affected.
17:16There are those responsible who have been killed, who have been eliminated.
17:23There has been a lot of…
17:24But beyond that, and beyond the fact of the weakening of Hezbollah,
17:35and I turn to Nidal Shouker, is it also a way to isolate Hamas?
17:41In my opinion, it is not the same thing.
17:46We cannot make the same comparison between Hamas and Hezbollah.
17:51It is not the same thing at all.
17:54We can say that they have the same support.
17:58If it can be a point in common between the two factions.
18:03Also, it is not the same support.
18:04Because Hezbollah, we are really talking about an Iranian militia.
18:11It is an Iranian arm in the region.
18:15It is not like Hamas.
18:16Hamas is there to support it.
18:18It has 100% support, without a doubt, but not like Hezbollah.
18:22Hezbollah, first of all, in terms of religion,
18:27they are very attached to Iran, even in terms of religion.
18:33But in terms of military, it is Iran that supports both,
18:38even the three, if we had to add the Houthis too.
18:41It is in that sense.
18:43Yes, yes, yes, but Hezbollah in Lebanon is very strong.
18:49It is very strong and it is impossible to erase it.
18:53We cannot compare the same situations.
18:57Precisely, but Hezbollah had, if you allow me, Professor Shouker,
19:03has Hezbollah, now that the ceasefire has come into force,
19:09it will not attack Israel as much to indirectly support Hamas.
19:16Is Hamas today not somewhat isolated
19:20after this truce between Lebanon, or at least Hezbollah and Israel?
19:27Absolutely, yes.
19:28In this direction, we can say that it is very well isolated
19:31and the same is very much released by everyone.
19:33In my opinion, now there is more future for Hamas
19:36because Iran has left it, Hezbollah has left it, everyone has left it.
19:41Now they are alone against the Israelis.
19:44So there will be an agreement, in my opinion, soon,
19:47because there are no other solutions.
19:48They don't have a thousand solutions, but they are well released by everyone.
19:54And here we see the strategic thing,
19:57in fact, the strategic fault of Hezbollah,
19:59which launched the war to support Hamas, to support Gaza.
20:05And how did it end?
20:06They ended up separating the two sides.
20:09So we don't understand, frankly, at the strategic level,
20:16the way they work, especially Hezbollah.
20:21And above all, they say they declare themselves winners.
20:25Today, if you have seen it, they declare themselves winners.
20:30So it's a bit weird.
20:33There is a huge strategic fault, in my opinion, from today.
20:39And if it ends, it will remain,
20:41because, well, there are a lot of questions around this end.
20:45In my opinion, this is the beginning of the end of Hamas in Gaza in a definitive way,
20:53because it is totally abandoned.
20:54The last support for Hamas, which was Hezbollah,
20:59was abandoned for various reasons.
21:04So it was abandoned.
21:05So there is the Houthis and the Iranians, they are a bit too far.
21:08So normally, today, we can say that they have zero support.
21:12They are all alone.
21:13So they are abandoned.
21:14In my opinion, I don't know how long they can hold on to this situation.
21:19Ali El-Hirishi, a question on how things could evolve
21:28in the sense of a weakening of Hamas,
21:32and also international pressure on the Israeli Prime Minister.
21:36With this victory,
21:40in any case, there is no victory without the hostages returning home,
21:45as the calls are repeated with all these demonstrations every week in Israel.
21:50Is it possible to say that with the arrival of President Trump
21:56at the White House in January,
21:58things may take another turn,
22:01or at least accelerate,
22:03even if, indeed, with the truce in Lebanon,
22:06we can say that it is a big step towards peace?
22:10Absolutely.
22:11Already with the truce in Lebanon,
22:13it is the beginning of the restoration of peace in this region.
22:19It is true that Hezbollah was the axis of resistance to the unity of this axis.
22:25Today, it is a fact achieved in relation to Hezbollah and in relation to Lebanon.
22:31Now, in relation to Hamas,
22:32there are the hostages, first of all the Israelis who are detained in Gaza,
22:39and in relation to Netanyahu,
22:41in relation to the Israeli population and their demonstrations,
22:45he must respond, he must find a solution to recover the Israeli hostages.
22:51Hamas is weakened because the majority of the leaders of Hamas
22:55or of the great decision-makers have been eliminated.
23:00And now, negotiations must be made,
23:05I think Hamas must also take into account
23:08that the negotiations must be made by all the components of the Palestinians,
23:13whether it is Hamas, that is to say the Liberation Authority, the OLP,
23:17or the Palestinian Authority.
23:19Today, the Palestinian state, that is to say the Palestinian Authority,
23:25must be the negotiator with all the factions,
23:27with all the components in Hamas,
23:30to try to arrive at a solution.
23:32Because to achieve peace,
23:34it is necessary to make compromises,
23:37it is necessary to make concessions on both sides,
23:39and the search for peace must include all the components.
23:43And of course, the Palestinian Authority must also be part of the negotiations.
23:49Today, I think that with the arrival of Trump,
23:54it will certainly accelerate.
23:55It started today with Biden, with this trend,
23:58but it will certainly accelerate,
23:59and we hope that we will arrive at peace at the Middle East
24:03in the shortest time.
24:04Yes, on this hope, in any case, this show comes to an end.
24:10I would like to reiterate my thanks on behalf of Median TV
24:13to Professor Nidal Choukaer.
24:15Thank you for being with us tonight.
24:19And thank you also to Ali El-Hirishi.
24:21Always a pleasure.
24:24That's it, this is the end of this episode.
24:26Have a very good evening.