Mark Atkinson and Graham Bean discuss Scotland's Autumn Nations Series.
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00:00Hello and welcome to this episode of the Scotsman Rugby Show. I'm Mark Atkinson, Sports Editor
00:07and I'm joined today by our Chief Rugby Writer, Graeme Bean, as we discuss Scotland's Autumn
00:14Nations Series campaign. Graeme, good morning, how are you?
00:18Morning, Mark. Yes, very well. Yes, enjoyed that game yesterday. Good win for Scotland.
00:24Absolutely, yes. Scotland signing off on a real positive by beating Australia 27-13
00:30at Murrayfield. Three wins out of four in November. Victories over Fiji and Portugal
00:36and a defeat by South Africa. Graeme, what is your assessment of Scotland's campaign in the autumn?
00:44Yes, I think it's past marks, definitely. A good campaign. I think it all hinged on that
00:50Australia match yesterday, didn't it? If they'd lost that, it would be a very different
00:55complexion of things. But no, it was a good win. I think that, coupled with a decent performance
01:04against South Africa, albeit a match that they lost in the end by a fair margin, but they did
01:09play well against the world champions. I think they're the two games to judge Scotland on. I
01:14would expect them to beat Fiji and Portugal, which they duly did. But they looked good against
01:21Australia and Scotland. They should have won by more, really. They scored four good tries.
01:26They were only 7-3 at half-time, which perhaps they should have been a bit further ahead at that
01:30point because they were the better team. But they pulled away in the second half and scored a couple
01:36of really nice tries, especially the last one that Finn Russell scored. I thought it was a great try.
01:40It really encapsulates Scotland at their best, flowing and passing it through the backs.
01:47Really quick and great to watch. I think it would be a good campaign for Scotland. I think
01:53they've got a bit of credit back after what had been a disappointing six nations, two wins,
01:59three defeats. They've come to the op and won three out of four. I think they end it with
02:09a lot of support looking forward to the six nations. There's a lot to be excited about
02:13because it's an exciting team. They've shown they can beat... I know that Australia aren't New
02:19Zealand and they're not South Africa, but they are one of the Southern Hemisphere's traditionally
02:22big powers and they've beaten them quite convincingly at Murrayfield. It was a very
02:27good performance. We must remember that this Australia team came into the Scotland match with
02:33their tails high following some impressive victories, particularly against England at
02:38Twickenham. There was an element of pressure on Scotland to get three wins in this series.
02:46I think one of the most interesting things of yesterday was Joe Schmidt, the Australia coach,
02:51when he spoke about how the Scotland team is in a sweet spot in terms of its experience and its
02:56age. I think we saw, for the most part, as close to a full strength Scotland team as you can get,
03:03given the injury nature that you get in rugby. Who would you say were the key men for Scotland?
03:09Who impressed you the most in this autumn campaign?
03:15I think, first of all, Sionidou Pilotou, newly appointed captain. There's a lot of responsibility,
03:23but I think he's really just thrived on it. It's just games got better and better. I think he's
03:28a real leader actually in the team. I think the players look up to him. I think the way he plays,
03:33by example, he's just excellent. I think he's really grown in maturity. I think he's handled
03:39the captaincy really well. He speaks very well. He's very honest and considered. I think Greg
03:49Attenborough has spoken about how he gets the emotional side of it right and I think that's
03:52spot on. He really takes the responsibility on and the players do look up to him. I think the
04:02way he plays as well, he's a brilliant player and a stick-on for the Lions tour next summer.
04:09Absolutely. Joe Schmidt, he wasn't going to nail his colours to the mass when he was asked
04:14specifically about the Choupo-Lottery for the Lions, but I suspect he is expecting to face
04:20the Australian-born Scotland captain when the Lions go there next summer.
04:23Quite a lot of players who could be in Lions contention from Scotland. Who else caught your
04:29eye? You've got a player to choose from, I suppose, but who else would you put up there?
04:37It's interesting you mentioned Joe Schmidt because he was asked about Choupo-Lottery
04:41for the Lions. He made a point of not endorsing them for the Lions, but then said he thought
04:48Hugh Jones was very good. It's quite a strange one from Joe Schmidt, but he's right. Jones has
04:53been very good in this series as well. I'm very good again against Australia yesterday and just
04:58links so well with Tui Pilotu and Finn Russell. It's a great little midfield trio there.
05:07I interviewed Gavin Hastings last week and this is what he brought up. He thought those three
05:11just combined so well. They're just the perfect foils for each other and you can't see how they
05:19couldn't be picked for the Lions tour next summer if they all stay fit. So I think those three have
05:25got to go. You've also got to look at the Scotland back fee as well. King Horn, Darcey Graham and
05:32Duhan Vandermeer were all very good again yesterday and when they're playing as they can,
05:40they're hard people to stop. They've just got so many different strengths. Darcey is so quick and
05:46the other two are so powerful. You think they've got to be strong contenders to go on the tour as
05:52well. Duhan went to South Africa three years ago and did well. You'd think he'd be on the plane
06:00again. Then up front, Xander Fegersen definitely would be going I would think. He went also in
06:10South Africa but never played in the Test matches but I'm sure he will do this this time.
06:16Rory Darge I'd say is a contender and Jack Dempsey too perhaps.
06:21Plenty of excellent performances individually and also collectively because there is now genuine
06:27excitement about the Scotland team once more. Before we get to the Lions tour, which is always
06:33an exciting event, there is the small matter of the Six Nations and I think it's fair to say that
06:39expectation levels have risen for Scotland in the Six Nations on the back of the autumn.
06:46What do we have to look forward to in the Six Nations in 2025? It's not that far away,
06:51start of February. It always comes around very quickly and Scotland have got three home games
06:56this time around. Just talk us through what lies ahead. Jack Dempsey Yeah, I mean they kick off
07:02with two home games. Italy first up at Murrayfield the first weekend of February and then a week
07:10later it's Ireland which is the Sunday game at Murrayfield. So it's unusual to start with two
07:14home games. So that's a real boost for Scotland. Italy, you know, the fact that Scotland lost Italy
07:21last season, that was a really bad result in Rome. I think they'll be so keen to make amends for that
07:28because they didn't do themselves justice that day. It was a poor performance in the second
07:32half. They let that game slip away from them. So I think that's a good game to start because
07:37they'll be really fired up for it. And then Ireland is the one, isn't it? It's the big one,
07:41just not beaten Ireland under Townsend since he took over in 2017.
07:46They're far and away the best, I think they're ranked second in the world at the moment,
07:50the top team in Europe. So that's going to be a real test for Scotland in week two of the Six
07:56Nations. Then they go down to Twickenham to play England. It should be another good game. I think
08:03what, are we going for five in a row against England? Which is unbelievable really. It feels
08:07like 20 in a row. But yeah, that'll be an incredible match. They'll be so fired up for that one.
08:14Yeah. And then back home to play Wales and then it all ends on Super Saturday in Paris against
08:20France. It's the final match. It's a nine o'clock local time in Paris. The game kicks off at eight
08:28o'clock over here. So that should be an absolute cracker to finish off for Scotland. And hopefully
08:33they're still in with a chance of the title when they go into that game.
08:37Is that the ambition? To just be on the premises come the final weekend,
08:41which has invaded Scotland too often? Yeah, I think it's got to be. I think people's
08:45expectations have risen now. You know, last season you got two wins, two good wins against Wales and
08:50England, but it was still seen as a kind of a disappointing campaign. I think, you know,
08:57Scotland never had more than three wins since it became the Six Nations in a single campaign.
09:03And that's now, it's sort of become the benchmark now for Townsend. He's going to set his own
09:08standards and, you know, they need to kick on from that. And, you know, they've never finished
09:13in the top two since it became the Six Nations. So I think that's got to be the aim this season.
09:19I mean, it'll be tough. It'll be really tough because, you know, France and Ireland are
09:24strong teams and England have got to get better, you think. So, you know, it will be tough,
09:32but it should be a great championship, I think. It's one to look forward to. In the meantime,
09:37let's hope that all the players keep their fitness ahead of a pretty gruelling club
09:42campaign. We have 1872 Cup on the horizon, Edinburgh-Glasgow as the URC comes back,
09:47and we also have the premiership, the top 14 and the European trophies. So it's certainly
09:53not the end of rugby, far from it. It's an exciting time. And we'll have all the coverage
09:58on Scotsman.com domestically and abroad. Graeme, thank you for your time as always.
10:04We'll speak again soon from myself and Graeme Prince-Piper. Thanks.