" Tamam Masail Ka Hal Dialogue Hi Hai Lekin Un Kay Sath Jo Ikhtiyarat Rakhtay Hain " Rauf Hassan
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00:00Sir, tell us, at a time like this, when the preparations for 24th November were in full swing,
00:05this statement by Aleema Khan Sahiba, in which she confirmed that
00:09Ghandapur and Gaurav Sahab, both are very high profile people,
00:12they kind of asked for permission from Khan Sahab to contact them,
00:16to talk to them. Khan Sahab said, yes, of course.
00:18So, what would you call this? Is this a policy shift?
00:22Or is it an attempt to say, if that situation doesn't come up,
00:27then it's better. How would you interpret this development today?
00:33Thank you, Basim, once again. Thank you very much.
00:36See, the problem is that, as far as the call for 24th is concerned,
00:39that call is still there. There is no change in that.
00:45Now, with this establishment, you know that in the matter of dialogue,
00:50Khan Sahab had said this a long time ago, in fact, he had also formed a team.
00:55You know, I have said this in some of your programs and in many other programs,
01:02that ultimately, the solution to all problems is dialogue.
01:05And who has to have dialogue?
01:07Dialogue has to be with those who have the power,
01:10because there is no point in having a dialogue with anyone else,
01:15because they cannot reciprocate,
01:18they are not capable of coming to any kind of agreement.
01:24Although, I am saying this, in the middle of you, I remember,
01:26there was a statement from Adiala that now I am stopping talking to the establishment.
01:30Then, in our program, you were running the secretary at that time,
01:32you said that ultimately, there has to be dialogue, ultimately.
01:34On which some of your party workers got angry on social media at that time.
01:38But the same thing is happening today, which you rightly pointed out,
01:41that are you ready to talk today?
01:44Look, I know Mr. Bajaj Khan's mind,
01:47he has always been a member of a political party,
01:49and he has said it many times, Mr. Basim.
01:52We are a political party, and as a political party,
01:55we can never refuse dialogue.
01:58We can never refute dialogue.
02:00So, on this basis, I was sticking to my policy of dialogue.
02:05Yes, you are absolutely right that I had to face criticism.
02:09And some people had also asked questions to Mr. Khan in this system.
02:14So, that has passed.
02:16So, dialogue, look, if you talk about fighting,
02:21you know that at the end of the day,
02:24it ends up on the negotiating table,
02:26where there is a truce, armistice,
02:28you know, agreement, whatever it is.
02:31So, I...
02:32But, sir, practically speaking, do you think that
02:35this will give a hint of weakness?
02:37Because, practically speaking, it seems almost impossible,
02:41or it doesn't seem,
02:42that today is 19th, 24th,
02:44that is, in the next four days, the establishment should agree on this,
02:47that let's take back the 26th,
02:49let's take back the stolen mandate,
02:51and let's celebrate the 24th.
02:53Practically speaking, I don't think it will be possible.
02:55So, won't it reveal the weakness of PTI,
02:57that they made an attempt and the establishment said,
02:59we don't want to talk about it.
03:01Look, where I have always been convinced of dialogue,
03:04I and my think tank also work for peace,
03:09there I am also convinced that
03:11dialogue should never be considered a weakness.
03:14Dialogue, in fact, is a strength,
03:16is a strength, reflects confidence.
03:18That, yes, we know that we are on the right path,
03:21our stance is right,
03:23the stand that we have taken is right,
03:25but along with that,
03:27being a political party,
03:29it has to carry the other stakeholders along with it,
03:32and it should.
03:34So, in this context, I feel that,
03:36no, Mr. Wasim, this is not a weakness,
03:39but I feel that this is a sign of maturity.
03:42Okay, but sir, how much chance do you have
03:44to initiate a dialogue and then be successful?
03:47Look, it should have been initiated a long time ago,
03:51I also said this in your program,
03:53that instead of happening tomorrow,
03:55do it today, instead of happening today,
03:57it should have happened yesterday.
03:59So, even now, without wasting any time,
04:01it should be initiated.
04:03When it is initiated, then the results will come out.
04:06If you want me to speculate here
04:08that it will take two days, two weeks or two months,
04:10then I will not do that.
04:12For 27 years, the crisis in Ireland was going on,
04:15you know, terrorism was also going on there,
04:17and back-channel diplomacy,
04:19back-channel dialogue was also going on.
04:2127 years.
04:22So, I am not saying that we will take 27 years.
04:24The issues of this country, the situation at the moment,
04:27they believe in immediate, immediate,
04:29immediate, immediately,
04:31they believe in a solution.
04:33Consequently, if a dialogue starts,
04:35then I think that very quickly,
04:37and there is no confusion in this,
04:39what is the point of having a dialogue?
04:41Dialogue is only to be in this thing
04:43that all the state institutions of Pakistan
04:45will have to operate within their own limits.
04:48When this happens,
04:50then I think that all the other issues
04:52will move towards a solution.
04:54Sir, on this basis,
04:55Pakistan's big daily,
04:57its main headline,
04:59in Jalli Haroof,
05:01Ansar Abbasi writes, and I quote,
05:03Hukumat PTI Aala Satha, Aala Satee Raapta,
05:06Mumkina Breakthrough Ki Koshish,
05:08Muzakirat Kamiyab Huye,
05:10Toh 24 November Kehchaj Multa Bhi Ho Sakta Hai.
05:12Muzakirat Mein Shamil Afraat Ke Naam Afsha Huye,
05:14Toh Establishment Aur PTI Mein Mufamat Ki Koshish Bekar Ho Sakti Hain.
05:18Aap Isko Confirm Ya Deny Karte Hain?
05:22When I read this in the morning,
05:24I wake up and read it in the newspaper,
05:26I read at least 5-6 newspapers in the morning,
05:28holding it in my hand,
05:29I am an old man,
05:30till I don't get the newspaper in my hand,
05:32I don't enjoy reading the newspaper.
05:34When I read it, I said, here it goes again,
05:36Ansar Abbasi Sahib has a special reputation,
05:39that at such times,
05:41he finds his tune strange.
05:44This, only and only,
05:46in the morning,
05:48when I was reading this,
05:50I, the dialogue,
05:52our 24th protest,
05:56to sabotage it,
05:58one effort had to be made,
06:00and it still is,
06:02because Ansar Abbasi Sahib's projections and predictions,
06:05and if you say, Badami Sahib,
06:07I will do a program with you on this issue,
06:09out of that, you tell me one,
06:11which is right,
06:13which has been proven right.
06:15These are all agenda items,
06:16which he projects.
06:18Not at all,
06:19there was no such thing,
06:21and now, if we move towards the dialogue,
06:23if we move,
06:25then my prayers will be with him,
06:27that this dialogue,
06:29to solve the problems of this country,
06:31is an important step.
06:33Now, obviously, Ansar Sahib,
06:35to answer this particular question,
06:37he is not here right now,
06:38so he deserves the right to respond,
06:39but you have given your opinion on this,
06:41but sir, explain to me,
06:43that if anyone,
06:44Wasim Badami or Ansar Abbasi,
06:46gives this news right now,
06:48that there has been a contact between the government and PTI,
06:51then how did this conspiracy to sabotage the contacts happen?
06:56I did not talk about sabotaging the 24 contacts,
06:59I said,
07:00how did this conspiracy to sabotage happen?
07:03How?
07:04By spreading disinformation,
07:06by doing a lot of things,
07:08Ansar Sahib,
07:09Mashallah,
07:10has a very special reputation in this regard,
07:12and see,
07:13the dialogue has not started yet.
07:15Okay.
07:17Okay,
07:18so you are saying,
07:19that the workers will have a misunderstanding,
07:21that the workers will think that the conversation is going on.
07:23Is this what you are saying?
07:24Yes.
07:25Okay.
07:26Confusion is created,
07:27those who want,
07:28that our workers,
07:29our activists,
07:30they are confused,
07:32uncertain,
07:33that there is going to be a dialogue,
07:35that there is going to be a protest.
07:37This is a very thought-provoking scheme,
07:39and it is always,
07:40on such occasions,
07:41this kind of,
07:42you know,
07:43what should be said,
07:45this kind of,
07:46you know,
07:47attacks are made.
07:48Okay,
07:49noted,
07:50sir,
07:51fine.
07:52Now sir,
07:53tell me,
07:54what will you say to those people,
07:55for example,
07:56Governor Sindh said today,
07:57that no one needs to make any preparations,
07:59that before the 23rd,
08:00in the last moments,
08:01there will be a call for cancellation,
08:02before the 24th.
08:03By the way,
08:04Mr. Lauder said,
08:05I will not be surprised at all,
08:06if this call goes ahead.
08:08One,
08:09we have talked about it,
08:10that if the negotiations are initiated,
08:11if it is successful,
08:12then the dialogue will go ahead,
08:13that is a different thing.
08:14But now,
08:15in these circumstances,
08:16which have happened in the past,
08:17on some occasions,
08:18that the date has gone ahead,
08:19these people who are speculating,
08:20are doing this,
08:21in fact,
08:22they are saying with great confidence,
08:23Mr. Governor,
08:24what will you say to them?
08:25Look,
08:26whatever I am seeing,
08:27whatever preparations I am seeing,
08:28in those circumstances,
08:29Mr. Waseem,
08:30this 24th protest,
08:31I am not able to see it going ahead.
08:32This will happen on the 24th.
08:33In this regard,
08:34almost all the arrangements
08:35have been completed.
08:36So,
08:37I do not know
08:38about their source of information.
08:39This has happened in the past.
08:40Once,
08:41on the instructions of the establishment,
08:42we went ahead.
08:43You will remember.
08:44And you regretted later on,
08:45right?
08:46Yes,
08:47that protest,
08:48which I am seeing,
08:49which I am seeing,
08:50which I am seeing,
08:51which I am seeing,
08:52which I am seeing,
08:53which I am seeing,
08:54which I am seeing,
08:55that was also regretted later.
08:56that was also regretted later.
08:57But,
08:58I do not think,
08:59that the call on the 24th,
09:00Sir,
09:01if something unnecessary happens,
09:02that is another thing.
09:03There is no one control over it.
09:04There is no one control over it.
09:05If there is some
09:06breakthrough in the dialogue,
09:07If there is some
09:08breakthrough in the dialogue,
09:09frankly,
09:10of which,
09:11chances are,
09:12I see very little right now.
09:13So,
09:14that is another thing.
09:15So,
09:16but otherwise,
09:17the call on the 24th,
09:18the call on the 24th,
09:19the call on the 24th,
09:20I do not feel
09:21that
09:22you know,
09:23when we talk about
09:24I don't see a single chance that this will be done again.
09:29Correct.
09:30Okay.
09:31And sir, on a lighter side, there was a time when despite the judicial orders, the senior
09:37leaders were not allowed to meet.
09:39It also happened that at the same time, the leaders of three houses flew out of jail.
09:44In such a situation, Mr. Gandapur and Mr. Gauhar were allowed to go.
09:47In fact, I read that it was not a long visit.
09:49They met for an hour and a half or two hours and were allowed to meet.
09:52Are you satisfied with this?
09:55I say that whatever steps are being taken towards dialogue, I will welcome it.
10:01Because this is the solution to the problems of the country.
10:05So, facilitating today's meeting, is it possible that there is a step towards dialogue?
10:09A small step, but it may be possible.
10:11Yes.
10:12The dialogue between the establishment and the PTI, I use the word impasse.
10:19The country cannot move forward without this.
10:21Because the solution to the problems of this country is with the prisoner number 864.
10:26And there is no change in that.
10:28No one can replace it.
10:30So, the establishment and the PTI will have to sit.
10:32If not today, then tomorrow.
10:33If not tomorrow, then the day after tomorrow.
10:34The sooner the better.
10:35If someone goes towards this dialogue, I will absolutely reciprocate your sentiment, Mr.
10:40Waseem.
10:41If a dialogue starts in this country between the PTI and the establishment, then it will
10:46be a happy ending.
10:47It will be a step towards the problems of the country.