Stefan Molyneux
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Article: https://thinkspot.com/discourse/OJun3y/post/sadhika-pant/the-trade-off-in-capitalism/letlYPr

In this episode, I delve into Sadiqa Pant's article on the conflict between capitalism and individual fulfillment. I emphasize the need for precision in discourse and the importance of engaging rigorously with opposing viewpoints grounded in principles. I critique vague definitions of capitalism, stressing individual rights and the balance between profit and human experience. Ultimately, I argue that true fulfillment arises from understanding our choices and responsibilities, challenging the idea that meaning must stem from corporate narratives. I encourage listeners to reflect on their values and engage thoughtfully with the societal structures they navigate.

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Transcript
00:00Hey, hey, everybody, hope you're doing well, this is Dan Mullany from Free Domain, and
00:06I think let's do a wee bit of an article review, because I do find it really interesting the
00:14way sort of contemporary minds work with regards to these sort of thoughts.
00:22And there's this general slop or goo that goes on in sort of modern writing, I mean
00:29maybe it's not that modern, I mean, George Orwell was writing about this decades and
00:34decades ago, but this kind of general, emotional, polysyllabic, stretchy goo that can cover
00:45almost all circumstances, it's like somebody inviting you into a dream and having you record
00:52it as physics, it's a really, really wild thing, so sorry, enough adjectives, let's
00:56get into this, this is from Sadiqa Pant, have you ever stood at a point where you were able
01:01to agree, to some extent at least, with two opposing sides of a debate?
01:06Have you ever stood at a point where you were able to agree, to some extent at least, with
01:10two opposing sides of a debate?
01:15Well, only if you have no principles, right?
01:21Only if you have no principles.
01:23And this is, to me, a confession of an absence of and an opposition to principles.
01:30So okay, let's look at 2 and 2 make 4, 2 and 2 make 5.
01:35Could you agree, to some extent at least, with two opposing sides of a debate?
01:38Well, no, that doesn't really make any sense.
01:41If you were to say, the world is banana-shaped versus the world is a sphere, would you be
01:47able to agree with two opposing sides of a debate, right?
01:51If somebody were to argue in a vile manner that rape is somehow morally acceptable, well,
01:59and then somebody says, no, rape is evil, could you agree?
02:02So all that you're saying is that you are empathizing, not thinking, right?
02:11You are trying to not get either person mad at you.
02:16And you simply cannot engage in effective, robust, and truth-pursuit intellectual debate
02:26if you're not willing to really anger people.
02:31But anger is the way, anger, hostility, attack, and so on, that is the way that bad ideas
02:39spread, right?
02:42Because it's either reason or force, right?
02:44And if your ideas are not reasonable, then you have to use a kind of force, right?
02:51You have to use, whether it's verbal intimidation or reputational destruction or whatever it
02:56is, right?
02:57I mean, aggression, bullying, these are all on the same continuum.
03:01Of course, I mean, to get angry at someone is not a violation of the non-aggression principle,
03:08but I'm talking about things like reputational destruction, doxing, and threats of those
03:15kinds.
03:16That's really, that's not good, right?
03:17Those would be violations of the NAP.
03:20Now, so have you ever stood at a point where you're able to agree to some extent at least
03:26with two opposing sides of a debate?
03:28So this is a kind of classical quote, sorry, it won't be this long on every sentence, it's
03:32kind of a classical approach to mediating conflict in the absence of principles.
03:41So mediating conflict in the absence of principles involves saying that both sides have valid
03:50points.
03:51And again, it's when no principles are involved.
03:53So if you are a marriage counselor, I assume that if the husband is complaining about the
04:01wife and the wife is complaining about the husband, well, you would agree to some extent
04:05at least with two opposing sides of a debate, right?
04:07The husband says the wife is all bad, the wife says the husband is all bad, and both
04:12the husband and the wife have done negative things, and you know, I've talked with couples
04:16many times over the course of doing philosophy in the world, and yeah, usually both sides
04:23have a perspective, right?
04:27So that's fine if you want to talk about, you know, people in relationships will complain
04:31about each other, but it's not really valid or fair to do that, right?
04:37Because you need to be able to see the other person's perspective.
04:39But again, this all has to do with an absence of principles.
04:42Couples get in trouble because they don't respect principles, right?
04:47That's really all that happens.
04:49Couples get in trouble because they don't respect principles.
04:54So one principle could be we don't yell at each other, we don't intimidate each other,
04:58we don't call each other names, we won't verbally abuse each other, we won't punish through
05:03withdrawal when communication is necessary, you know, there's lots of things that would
05:07be basic principles, right?
05:10And this is just consistency principles, right?
05:12It's just consistency principles.
05:16So why would you, this is always the thing that's kind of weird to me, it's like, well,
05:20why would you treat your boss better than the love of your life, right?
05:26It's a wild thing when you think about it, and it is vaguely or deeply incomprehensible.
05:33Why would you treat your boss better than your spouse, the mother of your children,
05:40the father of your children, right?
05:43And if your boss disagrees with something, with you, right, then normally people would
05:51just sort of sit and listen and take notes and think and mull it over, and they might
05:54push back, but they're certainly not going to yell or threaten or anything like that,
05:57right?
05:58Now, of course, you could say, well, but your spouse is not your boss, and it's like, right,
06:03right.
06:04They're much more important to you than your boss.
06:07Much more important to you than your boss.
06:10Your boss, you don't live with and sleep with, you don't procreate with, you don't
06:14have sex with, hopefully.
06:15Your boss is not going to be with you for the rest of your life.
06:19You don't claim to love your boss, you haven't taken vows in front of community and or Almighty
06:24God to love, treasure, honor, and respect your spouse, and you don't give your heart
06:30to your boss, and you're not vulnerable with your boss.
06:34Your boss is infinitely less important than your spouse, but in many ways, because power
06:43corrupts, monogamy is a kind of power, right, monogamy is a kind of power, in the same way
06:48that if your boss knew that you couldn't quit, then your boss would be potentially tempted
06:59to treat you worse, right?
07:00If you couldn't quit, and the only way to, I mean, that's a natural, that's a natural
07:08monopoly in that you choose that, and it's for the benefit of the children and so on,
07:13which is why even in a sort of stateless society, right, even in a truly free, voluntary society,
07:19people would still need rigid principles, because having a monopoly on somebody else's
07:25romantic and sexual and financial and parental investments will breed corruption, right?
07:33Power breeds corruption, but there's no way for the species to continue in a healthy manner
07:36without the power of monopoly, sexual, romantic, parental, and financial activity known as
07:45marriage, right?
07:46So still need that.
07:47So anyway, so she says, it's a strange place, uncharted and raw, a land scattered with ideas
07:52that you've seen from afar, but never had the nerve to wrestle down.
07:55Again, this is very vivid and interesting, but there's no thought content yet.
08:01To walk the line, timidly at first dipping just a toe into that unknown is a thrill like
08:04no other.
08:05Oh, isn't that nice for you?
08:07This is like all those articles that are designed for women that always start off with an anecdote.
08:13You know, so-and-so has done such and such, and she feels this, that, and the other, and
08:18it's a deep blah, blah, blah, and then finally, eventually, like, you know, 20 paragraphs
08:22in, you might get to a principle or two.
08:25The easy road, she writes, the easy road is to dig deeper into what you already know to
08:28fortify your arguments for the side you're already on.
08:31Lately, I've been straying into that strange terrain myself, turning over ideas that clash
08:35with my own, stretching them out, writing through them.
08:38This piece is one such endeavor, and the idea I've been contemplating on, capitalism, okay?
08:44Now, this is what I look for in any and every writer, is a definition.
08:55What is she talking about?
08:58Capitalism is an intentionally occluded and opaque word, right?
09:07It's intentionally left vague for people, because those who want to manipulate you will
09:12never provide definitions so you can project your prejudices into what they're saying.
09:21If you've ever been unwisely, as I have once, no, yes, just once, if you've ever been unwisely
09:27cornered into, hey, we'll get a free breakfast, we'll give you a tour of X, Y, and Z, and
09:32in return, you've got to hear our shared condo sales pitch, our free vacation club, whatever
09:38it is, right?
09:39Well, they won't tell you the price until the very end, and then they'll tell you a
09:44horrifying price and then knock it down by 80%, it's all, to me at least, mostly nonsense,
09:49but I guess everyone has to learn these lessons at least once, I certainly did, but people
09:55will always leave definitions vague because they want you to project your own prejudices
10:06into what they're saying.
10:07So if you were to say, the idea of being contemplating on capitalism, so the next thing would be
10:12to say, what is capitalism?
10:14Well, capitalism is a system of private property, particularly private ownership of the means
10:19of production and property rights that are universal, and the idea of voluntary trade
10:25rather than coerced transfer of wealth and property, right?
10:31That would be, you know, capitalism is the non-aggression principle and property rights
10:36as the foundation of your economic system.
10:39It's freedom, right?
10:40I mean, that's freedom from violence for sure, socialism, fascism, communism, national socialism,
10:47these all involve the initiation of the use of force in order to transfer property with
10:52the cloak cover of the invisibility cloak cover of the quote public good, right?
10:57Or the democratic will, right?
11:01So the first thing when she brings up a word like capitalism is, I want to know what the
11:06definition is.
11:07What do you mean by capitalism?
11:09So this is good.
11:10She says, I suppose before else I should square with where I stand, right, again, not trying
11:17to overly cliche the feminine, but she brings up a broad concept, she brings up capitalism,
11:25and then she says, well, the most important part is not the definition of capitalism,
11:29but my thoughts and feelings and my life experience.
11:33She says, I suppose before else I should square with where I stand.
11:37As someone entrenched in the corporate world, it would be hard to argue against the very
11:41framework that sustains my livelihood without sounding like a hypocrite hacking at the branch
11:45I'm sitting on.
11:46At least it's good writing, by the by, I mean, it's not got any intellectual content, it's
11:51all feels and impressions, but it's good writing in my opinion, she's getting very good analogies
11:57and so on, right?
11:59She says, I work in a field that wouldn't exist as it does without capitalism's promise
12:04of profit, a force that fuels both innovation and competition.
12:11Yes, innovation and competition, okay.
12:15So is capitalism, is the definition of capitalism the promise of profit?
12:21No, no.
12:24All life is sustained through profit, but profit is foundational to evolution, it is
12:34foundational to life.
12:36So for instance, if you expend a thousand calories hunting a creature that gives you
12:43only 500 calories of energy, you will die.
12:50I mean, if this is a consistent thing, right?
12:53So you're in a 500 calorie deficit, that is a net loss, right?
12:58So life is when you have more calories from your activities than you expend on them.
13:06And in particular, with regards to having children, you need a significant excess of
13:10calories because growing children and let's just say for humans, right?
13:16But for animals as a whole, right?
13:18Growing children requires an excess of calories, right?
13:22There was an old desperate housewives from many years ago where a woman kept breastfeeding
13:25her son into like, I don't know, five, six, seven years of age because she stayed slender
13:32because she had to expend extra calories in the production of breast milk.
13:37And so it was sort of a vanity project, right?
13:41So all life requires profit.
13:45You have to have more calories coming in than you expend in pursuit of those calories, right?
13:51Which is why cows stand there and horses stand there grazing, right?
13:55They don't run around from one end of the field to the other to graze because that would
14:00end up with them in a calorie deficit and a calorie deficit results in death, right?
14:06That's the whole problem with Northern climates, right?
14:10That you have a whole season, a winter where it's hard to get calories.
14:16You need extra calories because you're cold.
14:20And if you have a calorie deficit, and Roman talks about this in my novel, The Future,
14:24which you should definitely get at freedomain.com slash books, but you need a calorie excess,
14:34right?
14:35To grow a baby, to give birth to a baby, to breastfeed a baby, to raise a child is millions
14:41of calories in excess of what you would need, right?
14:44So you need a calorie, a significant calorie excess in order to reproduce.
14:48And evolution is all about finding ways to reduce calorie requirements and increase caloric
15:01excess.
15:02So all life aims at profit and without.
15:05So it's not just a capitalist thing, right?
15:07Okay.
15:08Well, sorry.
15:09And even in the non-capitalist sphere, profit is necessary.
15:15A thief, of course, tries to profit, right?
15:20There's an old Gowan song about a guy who doesn't recognize that being a thief, he loses
15:30money, right?
15:31Because he has to go to jail for so long.
15:33So thieves aim to profit.
15:34In other words, they aim to get more out of their energy expenditure, right?
15:40And they aim to get more money out of their energy expenditure, right?
15:44I mean, if you had a heist that cost $10,000 and netted $5,000, you would be $5,000 down.
15:51So companies invest in politicians so that they get beneficial legislation.
15:58And for many companies, there's no better investment than a politician.
16:02So they aim to profit from that, even though political benefits are not part of the free
16:06market.
16:07So profit is everywhere.
16:08I mean, she's aiming to do more good and change more minds than it costs her.
16:12So she's even aiming to profit from this.
16:13So just saying that profit is somehow unique to capitalism is just not understanding that
16:21all life runs on profit.
16:22All right.
16:23I'm inclined to believe capitalism is the most fitting economic system we have.
16:27Okay, that's nice.
16:30I'm inclined to believe capitalism is the most fitting economic system we have.
16:34I don't know what any of that means, and there's still no definition.
16:37There's a certain allure to its promise, a belief that the best rise through merit, that
16:42opportunity is there for the brave and resourceful to seize.
16:46And isn't it true that many of the comforts we now take for granted, electricity, indoor
16:50plumbing, computers, vehicles, refrigerators, their conditions are the fruits of market
16:53driven system that constantly seeks to outdo itself.
16:56These aren't just luxuries.
16:57They are the standards by which we measure our quality of life.
17:00And capitalism has been the most fertile ground for innovation to grow.
17:05So again, there's no definition.
17:08It's just this mysterious machine that produces good things, right?
17:12That's kind of all she's got going on.
17:14It's this mysterious machine that produces good things.
17:19Even the critics of capitalism who lay at its feet problems like environmental degradation,
17:23income inequality, poor workplace conditions, and rampant consumerism are its beneficiaries.
17:30So critics of capitalism, environmental degradation, right?
17:36So are people saying that prior to capitalism, the environment was healthier for humans?
17:46Is that sort of the argument that prior to capitalism, the environment, I mean, if you
17:52look at sort of the black death, if you look at the dark ages, if you look at the plagues
17:57and diseases and famines and disasters and wars and so on, but you're statist, not capitalist,
18:04if you look at all of these environmental issues prior to the rise of capitalism, it's
18:14really, really hard to say that the environment was better for humans prior to the rise of
18:20capitalism.
18:21And of course, I mean, this is sort of an old tale.
18:23I'm not sure if you know it, but originally when the, you know, dark satanic mills began
18:29pumping out their noxious fumes over the apple orchards around London, the apple orchard
18:34farmers went to the government and said, well, these guys are destroying my farm and they're
18:42destroying the value of my apples and the governments, which were getting more money
18:46in taxes from the capitalists than they were from the farmers sided with the capitalists
18:50and allowed air pollution to continue.
18:52So air pollution was not a free market issue.
18:55It was a government corruption issue for the most part.
18:59So yeah, income inequality, I mean, that's just a phrase.
19:05People see the difference between rich and poor and they get upset and they feel that
19:13it's somehow unfair and unjust, which is a child's perspective, right?
19:19It's a child's perspective.
19:21A child's perspective is that if somebody else gets more, I get less, right?
19:25So you come home, uh, that there's a pie and you and your four brothers all want a
19:30fifth of the pie.
19:31If they get more, you get less, right?
19:33Because as a child, you can't create and produce your own goods and services.
19:38So the idea of production doesn't really fit in your mind.
19:44So you end up thinking that if someone else gets more, you get less because that's the
19:49way in general, uh, it works as, as a child, right?
19:53So this just tells me this is somebody who hasn't grown up and is looking at a zero-sum
19:57game, which is a child's perspective.
20:00Poor workplace conditions, well, capitalism arose out of the end of slavery and, uh, slaves
20:07had infinitely worse worker conditions than most of the, uh, urban proletariat and so
20:14on, right?
20:15So a rampant consumerism are its beneficiaries, rampant consumerism.
20:21So one of the things that's also tough to understand is how people criticize modern
20:26capitalism without taking into account that the education of children is socialistic or
20:32communistic.
20:33Right?
20:34So the education of the children is, uh, an endeavor of, uh, the state, right?
20:41The state is what trains the children, the government is what trains the children.
20:47So money is taken from people through taxation and lavished upon a massive bureaucracy that
20:55the primary modern goal seems to be to indoctrinate children into lives of self-hatred and terror.
21:01So if people have problem with the values, right, if people have problems with the values
21:08in modern capitalism and by modern, I mean, I could say sort of mid 19th century, mid
21:13to late 19th century onwards, when government schools were instituted.
21:18If people say, well, you know, people don't care about the environment.
21:19Okay.
21:20Well, who trains the children?
21:21Oh, well, people don't care about income inequality.
21:23Well, who trains the children?
21:25People end up, uh, putting poor workplace conditions on their workers.
21:30Well, who, who raised those people?
21:31Well, there's rampant consumerism.
21:33Okay.
21:34Well, who teaches the children their values?
21:36It's the government.
21:37The government gets the kids 12 years, 10 months of the year, six to eight hours a day
21:44if you count homework.
21:45So if there are value problems in society, the fact that people just look at these mysterious
21:51values without talking about how the government has trained children, uh, they're just not
21:55even remotely serious people.
21:57All right.
21:58A few, if any, would willingly relinquish the comforts of our modern developed and thoroughly
22:03technological societies, luxuries big and small, that capitalism's engine has afforded.
22:08Again, what is capitalism?
22:09What is the engine?
22:10What does afforded mean in this context?
22:12Nobody knows, but she wants to give you room to project into her non-definitions so that
22:19you'll keep reading without being upset.
22:23She says, critics of capitalism are a plenty.
22:25I've debated with several and poured over the writings of others.
22:29What I rarely see though is a critique of capitalism that doesn't rush to present socialism
22:32or communism as the alternative.
22:35The goal isn't necessarily to discard capitalism just because it has its share of flaws, rather
22:39it's to sit with those flaws, to study them long enough that we might carve out solutions.
22:44As for the common grievances often pinned on capitalism, I won't dwell on them here.
22:48Heaven knows there's been enough inks spilled on those already.
22:51My complaints with capitalism, again, no definitions yet, one that I feel often slips through the
22:54cracks is the sense of detachment people feel in their workplaces under its demands.
23:00Sure, some might argue it's naive to attribute this to capitalism.
23:04I don't know why there's a comma there or a apostrophe.
23:09As people are predisposed to feel discontented with their work now and then.
23:12But this detachment isn't just a byproduct, it's a structural issue.
23:16When profit becomes the sole driver, the value of human experience can get lost in the shuffle
23:20and workers may feel like mere cogs in a vast, unfeeling machine.
23:24Capitalism with its talk of opportunity and self-made success has an implicit promise
23:28that the individual through hard work and ingenuity can find a place where they not
23:32only earn a living but derive a sense of purpose.
23:39Implicit promise.
23:41So capitalism just says earn, trade, beg, and charity.
23:48That's how you get property, right?
23:49You create it, you earn it, you trade it, you beg for it, or you get charity.
23:55It just says don't use force, right?
23:58Don't use force.
24:00The typical example is the dating market should be voluntary, right?
24:06People should not be forced to date and have sex with each other, yep.
24:11And so that's really all it comes down to, should we use force, it should be initiate
24:16the use of force in human affairs, right?
24:20So that's really all it comes down to.
24:24Talk of opportunity and self-made success has an implicit promise that the individual
24:29through hard work and ingenuity can find a place where they not only earn a living
24:32but derive a sense of purpose.
24:35How on earth could capitalism?
24:38It's like saying, well, you know, we should have forced relationships in the dating market.
24:43People should be forced under threat of jail to date each other.
24:47And then saying, well, there's this other system where people just voluntarily choose
24:50who they want to date.
24:52But that system fails because some people don't find love.
24:56Some people just end up dating around and sleeping around and never settling down.
25:02And so what?
25:03Does that mean that there's value in forced dating, sex, and marriage?
25:10So yeah, big spoiler alert.
25:13In a state of freedom, some people make bad choices.
25:17In a state of freedom, some people choose to go drinking with their hard-earned income.
25:23In a state of freedom, some people will choose to play video games rather than upgrade their
25:27skills in any economically productive way.
25:30In a state of freedom, some people will make bad decisions.
25:35That is not a problem with a state of freedom.
25:39That is the definition of a state of freedom.
25:41Now, of course, in a free society, if you make bad choices, you yourself should bear
25:49the costs of those bad choices.
25:53But the privatization of the hedonism and the socialization of the costs of hedonism
25:57is foundational to the modern welfare state society, that you can screw up and other people
26:01have to be forced to pay for your screw-ups.
26:07So this idea that, well, you know, if we don't force people to do stuff, some of them might
26:14feel that their lives lack meaning.
26:18I mean, that's kind of a collectivist and actually kind of fascist idea.
26:22I'm not calling this woman a fascist.
26:24I'm just saying that this argument that meaning is derived from force, meaning is derived
26:30from being forced, that's kind of Mussolini's strong man, strong arm, fatherland fascist
26:36kind of thinking that in a state of freedom, people become decadent and lazy and life has
26:40no meaning.
26:41But boy, you throw them into an army and you point them at an enemy and their lives are
26:44disciplined and have meaning and purpose and it's like, it's pretty horrendous, right?
26:49And again, that comes out of a childhood thing that our children are selfish and lazy
26:53and manipulative and lie constantly and you need to bully them, force them, hit them,
26:58spank them, yell at them, time out them until they develop a sense of purpose and discipline
27:02and meaning.
27:03And, you know, you see this in all the YouTube comments when there's some kid who's behaving
27:08like a brat and it's like, well, this is what happens when you don't spank kids or you don't
27:10have meaning and discipline and respect and it's all this, right?
27:13So let's see here.
27:17So often this promise falls short instead of a fulfilling vocation, many finds themselves
27:22caught in a relentless cycle of profit driven tasks, feeling little connection to the work
27:26they do or the people they do it for, right?
27:31So I mean, there's a funny thing that intellectuals do.
27:34So intellectuals find great pleasure in, I mean, it's almost a tautology, intellectuals
27:40find great pleasure in intellectual work, right?
27:44So this woman is taking pleasure and doing good in her mind by writing this article.
27:51And they look at people who don't take any pleasure in intellectual pursuits and they
27:56project themselves into those people and they say, gee, you know, when I was a waiter in
28:00my early twenties there, I worked in a restaurant, sort of high end seafood restaurant downtown
28:08and there were waiters there, particular, I'm thinking of one guy who was a waiter and
28:13he was in his forties.
28:16Now of course, for me, if I was still a waiter in my forties, that would be pretty bad.
28:22But he said, and I asked him about this, he's like, man, I love this, this is great.
28:27You know, I'm really good at what I do, it's kind of brain dead, I make a lot of money,
28:30I can travel, I can do fun things and this is a great life for me, right?
28:36So if you look at somebody else's life and you say, that would be horrible for me and
28:42then thinking it's horrible for them, you know, intellectuals live to work, right?
28:47They do this kind of stuff for free, they read books, they debate, they write often
28:50for free.
28:51So intellectuals live to work, but there's a massive contingent of people out there,
28:57really the majority of the population that work to live, right?
29:00They go put in their seven and a half or eight hours and they come home and they don't think
29:04about work and they don't want to, and they just go and do their thing and they don't
29:07strive for all of this meaning and depth and influence and satisfaction, right?
29:11They just go to work and do their thing.
29:14I mean, do you think, you know, if you've got a problem with your toilet and you call
29:17the plumber, do you think that the plumber is there for depth and meaning and purpose
29:21and like this?
29:22No, he's there to make some money and fix your toilet and it's very honorable work,
29:27it's fine work and I appreciate it and it's great, but of course, you know, I've worked
29:30a lot with people who do a lot of manual labor and if you've not talked to people who do
29:36jobs that aren't meaningful, I don't, like then it's just a weird kind of narcissistic
29:42projection onto people, right?
29:45To say, well, if I had to do what they would do, I would feel alienated and miserable.
29:51Well, but you're different, right?
29:53Remember, a third of people don't even have an inner dialogue.
29:56I mean, they're NPCs, so to speak, right?
29:58I mean, and nothing wrong with that in particular, it's just the way that life is, right?
30:05It's like some singer saying, well, you know, I can't believe people aren't singers.
30:12It's like, well, they're not singers because they don't have great pitch, they don't have
30:16a great singing voice, they don't, right?
30:18They're just not singers because they're not, right?
30:23I mean, I was listening the other day to an old Queen song, Teo Torriate, Let's Cling
30:27Together, which is a song they sung half in Japanese and I mean, the silvery, beautiful
30:31tones of Freddie Mercury singing at the beginning of that, that's just staggeringly good, right?
30:36And nobody else really has ever been able to come close to those kinds of tones and
30:39I think that really was the album where his voice was at its peak, but you know, for Freddie
30:44Mercury, not that he ever did, but we'd sit there and say, well, he did sit there and
30:48say, well, if I couldn't do this, I'd be a stripper or something like that, right?
30:53So for singers, it's pretty narcissistic for singers to say, I can't believe people aren't
30:59singers.
31:00First of all, they need people who aren't singers so they have someone to sing to, because
31:02if everyone was a singer, there'd be a very crowded stage and no one in the audience,
31:06right?
31:07So it'd be no business, right?
31:08So people who have a good facility with intellectual stuff, yeah, enjoy it, right?
31:15But thinking that other people are miserable, I would be miserable as a waiter in my 40s,
31:20but this guy wasn't, right?
31:21There's nothing wrong with that, we're different, we're different.
31:28So all right.
31:32So while capitalism has undeniably lifted the material standard of life, it leaves the
31:35question lingering, is there a way for it to serve both the pocket and the soul to create
31:39not only prosperity, but genuine fulfillment?
31:43So I'm not sure how the admonition, don't steal, thou shalt not steal, just don't rob
31:50people, right?
31:52Don't be a criminal, don't be a thief, don't rob people, it's like, well, that's nice,
31:56but the problem is that that doesn't create a sense of deep meaning and purpose for people.
32:00What the fuck?
32:01Like, honestly, this is incomprehensible to me.
32:07You know, if you say, as every society should, rape is evil, I don't rape, rape is evil,
32:13you say, yeah, okay, well, but on the other side, not raping, for some people, doesn't
32:23create a deep sense of meaning and purpose.
32:27And it's like, how is that both sides of the equation?
32:30Anyway, so it's just odd to me.
32:34We might catch glimpses of restlessness now and then, perhaps in the quiet of a long commute,
32:38or in that fleeting moment between tasks.
32:41Perhaps we fear that if we look too closely, we might find ourselves more entangled than
32:44liberated by the very system promising us opportunity and happiness.
32:48Still there's dignity in a hard day's work, some structure to the day, and savings that
32:51will likely get us through retirement, so corporate workers find much to be thankful,
32:56I think she means for, even in a career path that may not be their ultimate dream.
33:00Sure, sure, so people have different levels of risk tolerance, right?
33:06I mean, if you've ever sat down with a financial investor, the financial investor will say,
33:11you should say, I think, like, what is your risk tolerance?
33:14Do you want high risk, high reward, low risk, low reward, right?
33:17So people have different levels of risk tolerance.
33:22So what?
33:23I mean, that's partly, I assume that's to some degree genetic, and it's to some degree
33:28people make trade-offs, right?
33:32So people who become entrepreneurs sometimes make a lot of money, and sometimes go broke.
33:42And everybody has their own particular dial of risk tolerance.
33:48My risk tolerance is quite high.
33:50Other people's risk tolerance is quite low.
33:53I'm not better, they're not worse, they're not better, I'm not worse.
33:57Society needs its ballast, and it needs its propulsion systems, right?
34:02It needs its momentum, it needs its inertia, and it needs its propulsion.
34:07So people will make trade-offs, and they will say, I prefer a life that's less exciting,
34:18because excitement goes both ways, right?
34:21I mean, excitement, if you're on a roller coaster, goes, there's not really a big negative
34:25other than, you know, some time and money, which you're choosing to spend.
34:29But a roller coaster is not the same as being an entrepreneur.
34:31Being an entrepreneur means that you risk going totally bankrupt and living in a car.
34:38I mean, for a lot of people, right?
34:39I certainly remember that phase of being an entrepreneur, when I had to sign promissory
34:44notes to the bank that I was personally liable for in order to make payroll, which would
34:48have put me in crushing debt for years and years, had we not been able to make the business
34:54a success.
34:55So that's a level of risk that a lot of people are not comfortable with, and good for them.
35:01There's nothing wrong with that.
35:03There's nothing wrong with that at all.
35:06Some people like to take strolls along the boardwalk.
35:11Other people like mountain climbing.
35:15There's nothing wrong with taking strolls along the boardwalk.
35:17There's nothing wrong with mountain climbing.
35:19It's just different levels of risk tolerance.
35:23So sure, and listen, without a doubt, everybody looks at the other side with envy from time
35:28to time.
35:29So the people with low risk tolerance look at the people with high risk tolerance with
35:38envy, for sure.
35:42And people with high risk tolerance look at the people with low risk tolerance from time
35:48to time with envy.
35:50I mean, do you not think that somebody freezing to death because they are climbing Mount Everest
35:55and things went really badly, do you not think that those people in the process of
36:00freezing to death, whose bodies are probably still frozen up there, for some reason they
36:04were tough to get down, but do you not think that those people look at others who are not
36:12currently freezing to death because they are real thrill junkies and wanted to climb Mount
36:17Everest, do you not think they look at those people with some envy?
36:21And you can see this.
36:22I mean, Trump really personifies this, right?
36:24So Trump is a very high risk tolerance person, right, he's gone bankrupt a bunch of times
36:30and has started massive amounts of ventures, had like 400 lawsuits even before the modern
36:35stuff.
36:37And so he's a high risk tolerance person.
36:40And people ask him about this, he says, well, there are people dying in India, it's literally
36:44not that serious, what I'm doing.
36:46So he's a high risk tolerance person, and people hate that.
36:50And some people love it and some people hate it.
36:53And so people with a low risk tolerance say, well, Trump's got bankrupt a bunch of times,
36:57therefore he's a failure.
36:58And that's just how they would frame it to themselves.
37:01You're a failure if you fail, it's existentially bad, and you'll be attacked and criticized
37:06and mocked and scorned forever.
37:07And that's their low risk tolerance.
37:10So they look at Trump and they say, what he's doing is bad or wrong or something like that.
37:15And that's because they have a low risk tolerance.
37:17And this woman is looking at those who have a low risk tolerance and saying, well, aren't
37:21there times where they feel empty and that they've missed the boat and they haven't pursued
37:25their dreams?
37:26Sure.
37:27Of course there are.
37:29Of course there are.
37:30And then there's the guy who put his heart, mind, soul, guts, blood, and savings into
37:37starting a business that crashed and burned.
37:41And he has to go through bankruptcy and he loses just about everything.
37:45And he looks at his neighbor across the street, who's a plumber, who's dining with his kids
37:52in a well-lit, warm, comfortable house while the entrepreneur's living in his car, and
37:57looks and says, I should have done that.
38:00Sure.
38:01So saying that we occasionally envy the opposite is saying something so banal, it's barely
38:07worth stating.
38:08Right?
38:09I mean, yeah, it's an old Woody Allen movie where the young single swinging guy looks
38:16at the guy who's got the stable kids and wife and dinner every night with his family and
38:22envies that.
38:23Whereas the guy who's in the marriage looks at the swinging guy who's got a new girl every
38:27week and envies that.
38:28Yeah.
38:29Okay.
38:30So whatever.
38:31Right?
38:32Of course.
38:33It's just kind of boring.
38:34But saying that people with a low risk tolerance sometimes wonder if they missed the boat.
38:37Sure.
38:38But saying that people with a high risk tolerance sometimes regret the risks they take and wish
38:41they'd taken a safer path.
38:42Sure.
38:43That's part of the natural correction mechanism of the mind.
38:47But thinking this is somehow endemic to capitalism, I don't know.
38:51All right.
38:53And it's not as though companies are oblivious to the discontented detachment their employees
38:56experience.
38:57Corporate offices like those I've encountered can be quite remarkable.
39:00Many feature buffet-style meals, meditation centers, gyms, lounges filled with video games
39:04and ping-pong tables and coffee bars, all aimed at crafting an enticing work environment.
39:10At times it seems those perks are designed to encourage employees to linger longer within
39:13the office walls.
39:15Companies don't just market their products, sell their workplace, blah, blah, blah.
39:18Capitalism leans not only on the visible market economy that drives consumer demand, but also
39:22on an unspoken shadow economy that subtly shapes its producers, drawing them into cycles
39:26of labor and loyalty that sustain the very system they serve.
39:29Yeah.
39:31I mean, I used to stay and play Unreal Tournament and Quake with my employees, and then we'd
39:37go out for dinner, and usually the company would pay, and yeah, it was nice.
39:41But we were all very productive in building things together, and I got them stock options,
39:46and they did well and all that.
39:49The job becomes rebranded from employment into a complete way of life.
39:54I have friends who clock in over 12 hours a day at the office, with little room left
39:58for a social life outside of work.
40:00Their weekdays revolve around the job.
40:02They exercise at the office gym, and on weekends they unwind with colleagues over beers or
40:05participate in office sports leagues, playing critic on Sundays, cricket.
40:08Unmarried men and women, sure, yeah.
40:11So if you are at work, and these are company towns and so on, right?
40:15So if you're at work, and you socialize with people at work, then you're drawing from a
40:21pool of like-minded people, and maybe you can find someone to date and fall in love
40:26with and marry and have kids with, so yeah.
40:29All very good, makes sense to me.
40:31What's wrong with that, right?
40:33But it's voluntary, right?
40:34I mean, she's not sitting there saying, gee, I wonder if kids are alienated from schools
40:41because their needs and preferences are never taken into account, and they're just forced
40:46to learn things they're not interested in with a curriculum that they and their parents
40:49have no say in, and they're forced to do homework, right?
40:54So for kids, right, this is a funny thing, so for kids, adult time is like twice, right?
41:00So for kids, an hour is like two hours for an adult, at a minimum, right?
41:05The younger you are, the longer it is, right?
41:08So for kids, I mean, if you've ever had to wait with kids in and out of a doctor's room
41:13or a dentist's room, like a waiting room, for little kids, it's tough, right?
41:18If you've got to wait for half an hour, that's fine, but the little kids get bored and restless,
41:21right?
41:22But let's just be generous and say it's like two to one, right?
41:25Okay.
41:26So how would this woman feel about a company that forced people to work there, worked them
41:34for 12 hours straight, and then sent them home with two to four hours of extra work?
41:42She'd say that's appalling.
41:43They're forced to be there, they don't have any choice, and then even when they get home,
41:48they're forced to do work.
41:49So that's six hours a day of school, at a minimum, like six hours a day of school, forced
41:55to be there, and that's 12 hours, right?
41:59And then one to two hours of homework, that's two to four hours, so at a maximum of 12 hours
42:04of work and then four hours of homework, they'd say, oh my God, that gives them no time.
42:09All they can do is sleep.
42:10That's really alienating, that's really weird, but she can't see it, right?
42:14People can't see that stuff.
42:16I mean, I don't know why.
42:19If you're going to say, well, being alienated from your environment, oh, and also is bad,
42:24then that would be kids, right?
42:26Kids are notoriously bored in school, they hate school, they're usually forced to be
42:29there, or their parents are certainly forced to pay for it no matter what, and then they're
42:32sent home with homework and so on, right?
42:34And if, can you imagine that if it also came to light that these employers who were making
42:39their employees work for 12 hours a day and then sending them home with two to four extra
42:44hours of work, if those employers were also, if anyone who really complained or got bored
42:51or restless, they would drug them, I mean, you would consider this monstrous, right?
42:54But that's the way that government schools work, so.
42:57It's strange to me that people don't see that, but I guess that's the general lack of empathy
43:01for kids, right?
43:02All right.
43:03One might argue that working in such an office is far more enjoyable than toiling away in
43:06a place where the only focus is on the grind, where the atmosphere is as drab as the fluorescent
43:10lights overhead.
43:11Okay, so one might argue, I contend, that companies don't care for employees' entertainment,
43:17but should offices really take it upon themselves to fill the void in their employees' lives?
43:20Well, they're not forcing anyone, they're making that, I didn't force anyone to stay
43:24and play video games or go out for dinner with me, right?
43:29Because anybody who left, it was like, good, have a good evening, right?
43:33Shouldn't the workplace serve its purpose and then step back, allowing employees to
43:36reclaim their extra hours?
43:37Good, it's not being forced on anyone.
43:39And let's say that you say, well, I want to hang out and play video games with my boss
43:43because then I'll get ahead.
43:44Okay, well, that's a choice, right?
43:45That's a choice based upon ambition and all that, right?
43:48Nothing wrong with that.
43:51Imagine if offices operated with fewer demands on their time, granting employees the freedom
43:54to cultivate their lives outside the workplace, okay?
43:58So what do you mean, allowing, right?
44:00Nobody's forced to play, what was it?
44:06Some sport on the weekend.
44:07Employees forced usually to stay late, it's a choice, right?
44:13Spending time with family, engaging in social activities, pursuing hobbies and gathering
44:16experiences that enrich their souls.
44:18Well, I've witnessed colleagues pour their lives into the office culture, yet when conversations
44:24shift to their dreams outside of work, there's a palpable hesitation if they're unsure how
44:28to articulate what truly matters to them.
44:30Yeah, so spoiler, some people, they like their work, they find their work engaging and enjoyable,
44:36and some people would rather work now and have leisure later, right?
44:41So if you put the grind in now, you make a lot of money when you're young, you have time
44:45for a huge amount of leisure later.
44:47And arguably, that's a pretty sensible strategy, right?
44:50Because when you're young, you have a lot more energy and focus and you sleep better
44:53and you've pepped your step, right?
44:58So that's the time to work hard.
45:00And then let's say that you work really hard and then you can retire at 50 or 55, well,
45:05you have less energy, so that's when you do all your hobbies, that's when you do your
45:09travel, that's when you do that social activities and you play sports and all that kind of stuff,
45:15right?
45:16So, I mean, what's wrong with pouring your energy into the work when you're younger to
45:19make money so you can retire when you're older?
45:22It's a choice, right?
45:25I'll steer clear, she says, of commenting on the overused notion of work-life balance,
45:28a phrase that sparked countless heated discussions in corporate circles.
45:32All right, blah, blah, blah, companies overwork their employees, well, of course, if you're
45:39concerned about overwork, then you should be concerned about taxes, right?
45:43So when half of people's workday is taken away from them through taxation, then lowering
45:49taxes would give them more work-life balance, right?
45:54And if significant portions of their paycheck are taken up for some fairly useless overhead
45:58called human resources, maybe shrink that so that people have more money in their pocket,
46:03right?
46:04Because the more money that's taken away from you, the less choice you have, right?
46:09The less choice you have.
46:10So all that takes away from the income of employees is shrinking their scope and choice,
46:16but she's not saying, well, we need to find a way to lower taxes and lower useless bureaucratic
46:20corporate overhead and regulations because that takes away people's income and would
46:25give them more choice.
46:26She doesn't say anything like that.
46:27It just doesn't see it, right?
46:28It doesn't see it.
46:29And this is just going with feels rather than principles, right?
46:33All right, so what is the solution?
46:40One might impatiently ask.
46:42So what is the solution?
46:44Well, whatever the solution is, sorry, whatever the problem is, the solution is more freedom,
46:49less coercion, more voluntary interactions, right?
46:52So I think let's just, let me do that paragraph, right?
46:56For the first time in the history of the human race, work is for many no longer a means
46:58to an end, but an end in itself.
47:00And perhaps we don't know how to live with this new reality.
47:05No longer a means to an end, but an end in itself.
47:08Not really sure what that means.
47:10What is the solution?
47:11One might impatiently ask.
47:12If there is one, it's far from foolproof.
47:13Perhaps it lies in nurturing our ability to introspect.
47:16Yeah, sure, absolutely, absolutely.
47:18When people are pillaged through taxation and people are indoctrinated as children through
47:25government, schools and so on, well, what you want to just nurture your ability to
47:29introspect.
47:30Sure.
47:31Absolutely.
47:32Nurture your ability to introspect.
47:34That'll solve it.
47:35To read the fine print, if only to avoid the disappointment of waking up two decades later
47:38with only faint recollections of neglected hobbies, lost friendships, or those small
47:42dreams we once promised ourselves we'd chase some day, oh, to read the fine print, or by
47:47making our jobs a smaller part of our lives and our identities that we might want more
47:51for ourselves.
47:52Ultimately, the answer may be simply to want more, more meaning, more purpose, more depth
47:54in existence.
47:55Yeah, I don't know.
47:56None of that's practical.
47:57That's all feeling, feeling stuff.
48:00And if you want, like there were bigger communities when taxes were lower, right?
48:06There were more communities when taxes were lower and women were home building their communities
48:11and so on, right?
48:12So this feeling space thing, you know, just nurture your ability to introspect and so
48:20on.
48:21And sure.
48:23But the idea that people who are trapped in bad education, propaganda as kids, propaganda
48:31in university, and massive crushing taxes and bureaucracy, both in within the company
48:38and outside in terms of government regulation, that the problem is, is looking at their dreams
48:45and right.
48:46The problem is that the excess of force within society is driving happiness from us as it
48:50always does.
48:52So she just hasn't defined anything and there's no morals whatsoever.
48:57So she just ends up with these vague, unactionable calls to introspection and meaning.
49:02So how about less calls for introspection and less coercion in social and economic affairs?
49:07Freedomain.com slash donate to help out the show.
49:09Thank you so much.
49:10Bye.