Brandon Anderson is an NBA and NFL Writer for The Action Network. Brandon joins the program to discuss his NBA Top 100 Rankings, why he has Jaylen Brown 47th, and why the Celtics are the clear favorites to win the NBA Finals again.
0:10 - Celtics offseason recap
2:14 - Regular season preview
6:09 - Joe Mazzulla's coaching
10:13 - Moore's ranking
12:01 - Finals MVP discussion
22:11 - Klay Thompson comparison
27:01 - Jaylen vs. Bridges
30:19 - Jaylen's scoring ability
32:00 - Jaylen vs. Draymond
39:00 - Impact of big men
40:55 - Jaylen Brown's role
42:55 - Theoretical basketball
49:32 - Celtics' finals potential
52:22 - Giannis' playoff health
54:01 - Celtics' championship depth
1:00:27 - Celtics vs. West
1:02:30 - Celtics' championship prediction
1:05:58 - Celtics' Finals matchup
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0:10 - Celtics offseason recap
2:14 - Regular season preview
6:09 - Joe Mazzulla's coaching
10:13 - Moore's ranking
12:01 - Finals MVP discussion
22:11 - Klay Thompson comparison
27:01 - Jaylen vs. Bridges
30:19 - Jaylen's scoring ability
32:00 - Jaylen vs. Draymond
39:00 - Impact of big men
40:55 - Jaylen Brown's role
42:55 - Theoretical basketball
49:32 - Celtics' finals potential
52:22 - Giannis' playoff health
54:01 - Celtics' championship depth
1:00:27 - Celtics vs. West
1:02:30 - Celtics' championship prediction
1:05:58 - Celtics' Finals matchup
CLNS Media is Powered by:
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Download the app today and use Code CLNS when you sign up & Get $50 instantly when you play $5!
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Take the guesswork out of buying MLB tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply.
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Nutrafol! Get results you can run your fingers through! For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners 10 dollars off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code GARDEN.
With HelloFresh, you get farm-fresh, pre-portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. Go to https://HelloFresh.com/CLNSFREE and use code CLNSFREE for FREE breakfast for life! One breakfast item per box while subscription is active. That’s free breakfast for life at HelloFresh.com/CLNSFREE with code CLNSFREE!
Visit https://factormeals.com/NEWSFEED50 to get 50% off your first box! Factor is America’s #1 Ready-To-Eat Meal Kit, can help you fuel up fast with ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to your door.
Right now, you can get 10% off your first purchase by going to https://ArenaClub.com/HOOPS. Wow, that’s a crazy offer.10% off a $400 Slab Pack, that’s $40 right there!
#celtics #NBA #BostonCeltics
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Category
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SportsTranscript
00:00:00Celtics Beach is brought to you by Price Picks and the Game Time app.
00:00:06Oh God, we're here. We have arrived. It is finally time after a busy, fun, it was a fun
00:00:15off-season of just sort of basking in Banner 18 and celebrating the Celtics. And look,
00:00:21nobody celebrates the Celtics like the Boston Celtics celebrate the Celtics. I mean, a press
00:00:26release went out the other day about like all these high moments of plans throughout the year
00:00:30to look back on the championship and 18 keystone moments or whatever. I don't remember. So I
00:00:36apologize. Does anybody I know there is listening in the Celtics front office that are like, he's
00:00:40just dismissing? No, I want you to be happy. I want you to be happy. I am happy. Everyone is
00:00:46still thinking fondly back to the duck boat parade through the streets of Boston. I've got confetti
00:00:52on the wall behind me and my kids are rocking their Brown and Tatum jerseys. Everyone's excited
00:00:58about starting five, all the specials on social media and, and, and different short, whatever,
00:01:04like it's all about Boston right now. And I love it. I love it. Especially considering
00:01:10the Red Sox blow and the Bruins are unpredictable and the Patriots just aren't there yet. This is,
00:01:17this is the team. This is the group that we are excited to have. That is obviously just
00:01:22chasing banners year after year. At least if a new ownership, whenever that comes into place,
00:01:27decides to keep foot in the tab, this team is poised to hopefully keep winning championships.
00:01:32But the reason I say it is time is because we're done where Joe Missoula, you out there listening,
00:01:37we're, this is for you, man. We're done looking back last year. It doesn't matter anymore. It's
00:01:42all about the surge to banner 19 and looking ahead. There's no more preseason games. You should
00:01:47be embarrassed by the way, four in one preseason. How do you not, how do you not sweep that? I'm
00:01:52kidding. Obviously two wins in Abu Dhabi and then they largely take care of business here. Stateside
00:01:58the one loss in the finale by a single point, the Patriots, they don't know what perfection is
00:02:04anymore. The Celtics borderline perfect to open up, you know, all, all things basketball to begin
00:02:11the year. But this now it matters. Now it matters. Dane Cook once said in previewing
00:02:16post-season baseball ads for Fox, like this, this, what, what was it? This is the real October or
00:02:23what a reference you got going here. Coffee. I managed to go to Dane Cook here. Yeah.
00:02:31The listeners are out there saying, cop, shut up, get to it already. The regular season starts
00:02:35Tuesday Celtics Knicks, couple of games before our next show, regular season, real basketball
00:02:42that matters is upon us. This is the season preview edition of Celtics beat. I am Adam Kaufman. You
00:02:47know that in Valenti, he's always here as well. Our special guest, Brandon Anderson from the
00:02:52action network. I have known Brandon for a couple of years now he's come on my radio show. We,
00:02:58we do a lot of betting content together. We certainly text a fair amount, but we have never
00:03:02had him here on Celtics beat, but I'll tell you what, a guy that he does do a show with
00:03:08on action network, a friend of ours, Brendan Glasheen, who I've known since he was a young
00:03:13child, clash calls games for the main Celtics. And he has been on with us before talking all
00:03:19things Celtics once or twice, whatever it was. And, you know, Brandon told glass that he was
00:03:25coming on glasses. Like these guys are going to kill you. They are going to just absolutely
00:03:30shred you and clash. Shut up. We are not going to do that. And, and, and, and, and Nora positivity,
00:03:38we are, we got nothing to complain about as Celtics fans right now. This is the all is right
00:03:43in the world, man. They just want a championship and now they're getting ready for another.
00:03:47So we're good. We're good BA. I don't want you to come on this show and think any just misguided
00:03:54rankings of Celtics players would have us all in our feelings or anything like that. Why do you
00:04:01hate the Celtics? Let's just start with this. Why do you hate the Celtics? I mean, really,
00:04:05I feel like this should, you should be welcoming. Boston fans should welcome me
00:04:10a Minnesota sports fan with welcome arms, Minnesota sports. I grew up in North Dakota.
00:04:15So I was born into Minnesota sports them. Minnesota sports are the feeder for Boston sports.
00:04:20We are pretty much directly responsible for all of the glory. That is Boston sports. Kevin Garnett,
00:04:27Minnesota, David Ortiz, Minnesota, Randy Moss, Minnesota. It's all from Minnesota. They're
00:04:34basically our banner 18. We don't have any other banners. We're banner zero. I just take like
00:04:40an NFC championship banner. I take a division banner. I, all I get is Patriots and Celtics
00:04:46banners. That's the closest I get to glory. That's where I come into the podcast from
00:04:52Minnesota, Boston sports fans somehow. Like now I, I grew up in North Dakota.
00:04:57I've never won here, but that's a whole other thing.
00:05:03I moved to Chicago area for college and have been here now ever since then. So I have this like
00:05:08weird Minnesota, Chicago sports fandom crossover thing happening where I'm a bulls fan from the
00:05:14nineties. I'm a Cubs fan and a Blackhawks fan here, but I of course hate the socks, hate the
00:05:20bears. Of course, all the Minnesota teams, you know, just sports in general, NBA in general.
00:05:26I'm excited to get the new season off and running. I'm excited to, to, to love on and hate on
00:05:33depending on the player, some Celtics players today, put some perspective on some of these
00:05:39guys, perhaps offer a bit of a different opinion. And yeah, it's, it's a phenomenal team. Incredible
00:05:46run through the post season last year. I did a lot of set it and forget it picks on the Celtics
00:05:52going through last year. Just like, all right, don't you need to watch this series? Like this
00:05:56is in five or less. They're just going to roll through and you know, now it's now you're all
00:06:01back and better than ever this year. So I love, love though. We're not defending champions.
00:06:07We're attacking champions. Love it. Give me all the Joe Missoula quotes. I cannot get enough of,
00:06:14of everything this guy has to say. I genuinely, I think he is criminally underrated as a head
00:06:19coach. The, the buy-in that he gets from the players, like the, the Pacers series,
00:06:25we're going to be a layup line. We're going to defend in a way that takes away the threes
00:06:30and makes us look like idiots because our offense is so good and their defense is so bad.
00:06:34And we're going to score so much. As long as they don't get threes, we're not going to lose to them.
00:06:39It's weird. It's crazy, but it's analytical and it worked and it made them look like idiots half
00:06:45the time on defense. And it didn't matter because the guys buy-in they're buying in on the shooting.
00:06:50You're buying in on the 30 point loss when the threes don't fall because they're going to win
00:06:54by 50 the next night when they did fall, that's not easy to get your NBA players to buy. And let's
00:07:00see how coach bud does with the sons this year. Let's see if they shoot the threes. I hope they do.
00:07:04I think Missoula getting this team to be the identity that they are and be at night after
00:07:10night and show up that's underrated. And like, we, we love when we write coaches, it's like, Oh,
00:07:16the after timeout play, you know, like the stuff that we as fans get to actually see,
00:07:20this is an identity thing to me. We don't get to see that necessarily, but I love,
00:07:24I love our guy, Joe Missoula. So didn't think I was starting there, but I guess we're starting
00:07:28there today. Yeah. He's just endearing himself to us. Now what he's trying to do is just butter
00:07:35us both up. It's working. It's trying to distract you from hating. No,
00:07:42in this world. Well, we'll get to that. That's not going to. And again, what I,
00:07:46what I enjoy is the fact that we can kind of expand a little bit and go a little more in
00:07:50depth. And I will admit to anybody listening to the show that Brandon is an equal opportunity
00:07:55hater. Uh, it is not a personal thing. And, uh, as I went back and listened to the episode that
00:08:01you and Matt did for the action, let me, let me, I'm sorry, let me cut you off there for a quick
00:08:05second for anyone that is wondering like, all right, so why do you, because normally we'll
00:08:09have like Celtics beat writers on or, or, you know, some, some voices in the NBA national community,
00:08:15not people that obviously special, like, you know, your stuff, there's no disputing that, but
00:08:20people who like specialize in the betting community, which is obviously what you do,
00:08:24you know, people like what, so why, like, why is BA here for the season preview show?
00:08:28And the reason for that and, and what sort of sparked all of this started on social media has
00:08:34now, you know, really, as I've said, we have time to explore this properly on a podcast is that
00:08:40Brandon and Matt Moore, who's also been on this show. He is also from action network. They, uh,
00:08:46put together their top 100 rankings across the NBA and the Celtics were, were not, you know,
00:08:51dismissed the obviously, I mean, look at the talent they have on their team, but,
00:08:55but there were, there were some curious decisions within that grouping.
00:08:59And that was what originated, uh, you know, this, this whole process, but I'm sorry, go ahead.
00:09:05No, I mean, it's just, it's, I, you know, I I'm pointing out that like, it's not just like a,
00:09:10it's not a, like a, it's not something that we should all get super like upset about. First
00:09:14off ranking a hundred players in the NBA, super hard. I don't think anybody's that complains
00:09:18about these rankings has ever tried it because it's not easy. It's not difficult. And just like,
00:09:22go through anybody's top 100 and just be like, Hey, I, I can't imagine putting this list together
00:09:27because there's so, so many good players in league. So, but Brandon got me a little emotional.
00:09:31He got, he got, he got me good with this rankings because, uh, we were in a somewhat of a deadish
00:09:37sort of period of, of basketball discourse. You know, you're just going through the preseason.
00:09:41And a lot of times you're like, Oh man, didn't Jordan Walsh look great. That was awesome.
00:09:46But it's not really like, you know, that core discussions that we're going to have throughout
00:09:49the year, but you're going, you're going through the rankings and obviously as a team that, you
00:09:55know, that we cover here in the Celtics, like you're looking for where everybody ranks. And,
00:10:00and I have my own opinions on, on Jason Tatum and why I prefer him more towards the five than
00:10:06towards 10. And we can get into that later, but the Jalen Brown number sticks out. And the
00:10:11difference between Matt Moore's ranking, your ranking is noticeable. You had him in at 47,
00:10:17which I thought was eyeopening. And so what I don't like is the fact that people will jump on
00:10:23you and say, you know, what is this? And like, cause you don't get a lot of opportunity to
00:10:27explain yourself, right? You had like 30 words, which is like not a lot. You can't really form a
00:10:36big opinion on that in 30 words. It's just like, I got to throw something on there. Here it is.
00:10:41But going back, listen to the podcast, listen to some of your explanations. And you and I kind
00:10:46of chatted a little bit back and forth. I just wanted to enlighten us before I personally have
00:10:55some things to rebut. I'd like you to explain what this brain dead opinion is what he's saying.
00:11:01Why are you ranking 47? Because I think very highly of Jalen. Now I am biased.
00:11:05Kaufman and I, we're very biased. We've watched, if not every game, almost every single game the
00:11:10guys played. So we have a different perspective on who Jalen Brown is. So I've just wanted you
00:11:16to give our audience an opportunity to explain why is Jalen Brown ranked closer to the top,
00:11:21closer to 50 than he is to third. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a fair question and it's a question
00:11:28that certainly on a Celtics podcast, I should be asking. It's a question that on an NBA podcast,
00:11:32I should be asked. It's definitely an outlier opinion. Yeah. It's tough to rank a hundred
00:11:37dudes. It's tough to figure out, okay, well, what are we ranking here? Like what,
00:11:41what is the thing that we're trying to accomplish here? For me, the main thing that I wanted to ask
00:11:46myself, and I hear where this is going to go. Once I say the sentence, if I'm starting a new NBA
00:11:52season right now for one year and I want to win a championship, what are the order of the guys that
00:11:57I want to take for my team? Now look, Jalen Brown is the finals MVP. Shouldn't that make him like
00:12:03number one, then that should be right at the top of the list. Like I hear that. I'm just saying,
00:12:07as I think about the process, I'm thinking about the player, but I'm trying to think as best I can
00:12:13about the player outside of the context that they're in the player in 29 other contexts,
00:12:18where would they fit on other team? What would they look like as the star of the team? Oh,
00:12:21they look like as a second or third banana on a team. What would they look like if they needed
00:12:26to do more? Or what if they had to ramp down to a smaller role? That's hard because that's now
00:12:31theoretical for most players, right? Like your holiday, we've got different versions of your
00:12:37holiday. We've actually seen, this is the very ramped down version of your holiday in Boston,
00:12:43but we've seen less of that. We've seen a different version. We have different contacts for
00:12:47him now to compare him to. I have drew a holiday by the way, much like a few other Celtics higher
00:12:54than pretty much everyone else after a holiday 45th in my ranking, because I think he's an
00:12:57incredible, phenomenal player, a winner at every level, a guy that makes a difference,
00:13:03a guy that could be doing more would be doing more probably on all 29 other teams.
00:13:08Doesn't have to do that in Boston, just gets to do the drew holiday stuff and becomes insanely
00:13:13valuable that way, defending, doing all the things that he does. I also have Derek white
00:13:19higher than consensus. I have white at 30 or, and I have Christophe Sporzingas at 30.
00:13:28So I say those things not to butter you up as Celtics fans. I say those things to say,
00:13:32I think that I am conceiving of who the Celtics are and why they're so good,
00:13:39not negatively, just differently than the national perspective. I think the Celtics are
00:13:44so good because they have five top 50 players. That's a compliment. That's not a desk to say
00:13:52that about it. Like we've, I honestly don't think we've ever seen a team have five top 50 players
00:13:57like this at Al Horford in my eighties. Also at the Al Horford is incredible. I would have had him
00:14:02higher except that, you know, he's like 75 years old and can only play 20 minutes now, but I love
00:14:07that guy too. So I think, I think six, like per minute, I think six top 50 dudes by impact in the
00:14:13NBA turns out that's pretty good way to win a championship. Jalen Brown. If I look at the
00:14:19starting five, I look at Tatum. I looked at the three guys that I ranked higher on my consensus
00:14:24and Brown. Here's where I'm at evaluating in my context. He's in number one. First thing is Jalen
00:14:31Brown has won a lot of games. He's won a lot of regular season games. He's won a lot of postseason
00:14:36games. He's on a team that keeps on winning and immediately in my head, that's good. I want teams
00:14:41to win games. That's the process, but that also triggers to me. We tend historically with Celtics
00:14:48with sorry to say their name on this podcast, Lakers with guys that win a lot of games,
00:14:54we tend to overvalue winners, especially non-star winners because we want wins.
00:15:01So we're blinded by that a little bit. So that's a little bit of just like an orange flag to me.
00:15:05I'm like, okay, how should I evaluate this player in context? What if they were on the nets? What
00:15:10if they're on a different team here? What's that look like? So that triggers in my head points per
00:15:15game is another thing that triggers a little bit as we tend to overvalue scoring as the most obvious
00:15:21important thing. What about the other things? So here's what about the other things? The Celtics
00:15:25are great offense and defense stuff. They're great. Everything. We understand that. I think by
00:15:30my evaluation, it's tough to evaluate defense. I think Jalen Brown is the worst defender of the
00:15:38starting five on the Celtics. Now that is a terrible sentence because it makes them sound
00:15:42like a bad defender. He's not, there's five good defenders on the team. There's just four really
00:15:49good defenders on the team. A couple elite defenders in drew holiday and Derek white.
00:15:54I think Jalen Brown is a good defender who is helped by playing with four other really good
00:16:00defenders on the team. Now he guarded Luca in the finals. He was awesome at it. I give him credit
00:16:05for that certain matchups. He's going to be the right man for the job. I think he's a good
00:16:08defender. I just think there are other better guys on the team. And if he was suddenly the guy
00:16:13guarding the Luca of every other team every night, I think it would look a little different. So
00:16:17that's something I'm taking into context offensively. Now here's where it gets tricky.
00:16:23Jalen Brown has to have a bigger role on this team. He has to have a bigger creative role than
00:16:28like a drew holiday, like we mentioned, then a Derek white, but by the numbers, by the efficiency
00:16:33type stuff, I think Jalen Brown probably is the least efficient of the five starters on the Celtics
00:16:39offensively. Now that's not totally fair. Some of the turnovers, some of the shots he's missing,
00:16:44especially at the end of a shot clock. Drew's not asked to do those things. I get that. Like,
00:16:49I understand that's part of the context to consider as well. But to me, I look at the team.
00:16:55I see a great team. I see Jalen Brown as a complimentary part of a great team. And so I
00:17:02rank them accordingly. If I look at my rankings where I have the 47 ranking for Jalen Brown,
00:17:08let me give you some of the other names similar to that range. And I did my rankings by tiers.
00:17:13So I kind of grouped guys together that I think have a similar sort of role. So that didn't show
00:17:17up in our overall ranking. This is my tier guys that just help you win. Just to be clear, guys
00:17:24that just help you win is the tier I've put Jalen Brown into. These are the guys that I like, love
00:17:30historically. These are the guys I want on my team. First guy on the list. Number 45 drew holiday
00:17:36loved your holiday. Have always been a drew holiday guy, champion of multiple teams,
00:17:41gold medalist. Now multiple times, Hall of Fame player in my mind, 46,
00:17:46Draymond green, love him or hate him player that has defined a generation defensively.
00:17:53He's so important. He is part of who, what basketball is for the Warriors.
00:17:57He's he's a Hall of Famer instantly in my mind. Number 47, Jalen Brown. Like,
00:18:02look what I just said about those two players. And then Jalen is the next one on the list.
00:18:06McHale bridges after that, a guy that I think is a pretty interesting sort of comp to Jalen Brown.
00:18:11If we swap them in and out, we can come back to that fam out of bio. I have in this group,
00:18:15another guy that I got crushed for, for how low I am. It's really good to be a top 50 player.
00:18:21I really like these guys. I would love to have these players on my team. I think that helped my
00:18:26team win a lot. There's just a lot of good players. I think a lot of people have like 35 top
00:18:3120 players in their list at the end of the day. And I think that's a lot of what happens here as
00:18:35well. Maybe 47 is a little low. Jalen Brown's a guy, you know, it's easy to search my Twitter.
00:18:42You can find like as a better, I bet the turnover is over lots and lots of times in the playoffs,
00:18:48like the left-hand thing. Like you can see the slander. I think Jalen Brown had a great year
00:18:52last year. If I'm being totally honest, he earned his way up to 47 in my rankings. This probably
00:18:58wouldn't have been, he probably would have been lower in previous years. I think he had a very
00:19:01good season and a great post season. That's just where I'm at on the opinion of him. That's Jalen.
00:19:06That's my take. I've talked a lot. I will let you guys respond to that and respond to some
00:19:11of your questions. Quick break from today's show to tell you today's show is brought to you
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00:19:42the first half is returned. PrizePix keeps your lineup live. And with the NFL, obviously,
00:19:49anybody can get hurt at any time. NBA is coming up. Again, as Celtics fans, we're all sitting here
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00:20:47you play your first $5 lineup. That's PrizePix. Run your game. If we gave him more than 30 words
00:20:53there, so what do you think? Well, I mean, so look, part of what I think is interesting about
00:21:02this is like, we don't have context for Jalen outside of this system, which makes ranking him
00:21:09somewhat difficult. And I do agree with that. And so I thought about this last night as I was coming
00:21:14up with different ways to kind of engage you and try and figure out how we can go back and forth
00:21:20here. And it's really interesting to me. There's one guy this particular season, and it's unfortunate
00:21:26because he's a little bit older, that has a similar background to Jalen and is moving to
00:21:32a new system. And that's Klay Thompson. Now, Klay Thompson and Jalen are completely different
00:21:39types of players in my opinion. Klay is one of the best three-point shooters of all time,
00:21:47full period, stop. One of the most efficient pull-up shooters of all time. I forget how
00:21:54many points he scored in the game on four dribbles. It's mind-blowing stuff. I mean,
00:21:59the guy in the sports science, they turned the lights off and he went like seven to 10 from
00:22:04three-point range in the dark. I mean, you're talking about one of the best players of this
00:22:10generation, no question. But it's interesting to use him as a parallel here because of in one system
00:22:16for his whole career, what would it look like outside of that structure? So I bring Klay into
00:22:22the discussion because I think a lot of people during the heyday of the Warriors would have
00:22:25ranked Klay probably inside the top 50, probably inside the top 25. And so my question to you is,
00:22:34when you think about Klay and his fit with that system and how productive and how many games they
00:22:40won, they won titles, he was amazing versus the Jalen Brown version in their system and how
00:22:47similar and different they are and how we can take that example and say like, okay, again,
00:22:52I wouldn't have had Klay during the heyday lower than 30, right? I'm just going to throw a number
00:22:58out there I would feel comfortable with. I would not have put him below 30 because I value the
00:23:02spacing that he brings to the team, the defensive stuff that he did when he was healthier, the off
00:23:08the dribble stuff. I mean, he was dynamic, no question. So I just want to use that to kind of
00:23:12frame like, are we dinging Jalen Brown in this scenario because he's only stayed in that system
00:23:20where like someone else with a similar background probably ranked a lot higher than Jalen does now.
00:23:26Yeah, I think it's a really interesting comparison. I had not thought of this count before.
00:23:30And I think, I don't know. I think from how you're framing this, that you don't necessarily
00:23:34know my background on Klay Thompson or stance on him from his prime. I do not. So what's interesting
00:23:41here is that five years ago, had I done an elite 100 list and ranked players, I would have been
00:23:47asked to be on the warriors podcast to defend my low Klay Thompson ranking. Like that's legitimately
00:23:52is a really strong comp for that. Like, Hey, look, I love Klay Thompson. I am. I've got like
00:23:58warriors basketball over my shoulder here. I'm a Steph Curry shooty hoop guy, like Stefan Draymond
00:24:04forever. Andre Iguodala, Kevin Durant, like the, the, the, the 73 and nine season. I watch like
00:24:11nearly every minute of every game. I'm like canceling plans. I can't miss these games.
00:24:15I've never seen anything like this. I love this team. I love Klay Thompson, just watching him
00:24:21shoot. I've gone to like 10 warriors games. You get there like two hours early to just watch the
00:24:26threes reign, watch the shooting practice, really fun to player. There's a lot of really fun players
00:24:32that I love that I can still try to rank accordingly. I did not do this sort of list
00:24:38then. So I don't know what my number would be. You guessed yours. I would guess actually that I,
00:24:43I think Klay to Jalen, I think is a really, really good comp. I think I would have Klay
00:24:48ranked about similarly to how I have Jalen Brown, where I think I would have had him like top 50
00:24:54ish. And I think there are times, especially later in the career, I think I would have had
00:24:59him not even top 50. Like I kind of insinuated about Jalen Brown, where to me, put it this way,
00:25:04I'm still high on the warriors this year. I think that the warriors are still the warriors. They're
00:25:08not the fun version. We know the splash brothers, Stefan Draymond are the warriors. Klay was the
00:25:14third guy. And I think totally honestly, and I mean this and I'm, I'm on the record saying this.
00:25:20I think Klay was not even the third guy. A lot of the time, I found Ray Godala was more central
00:25:25and more important to who they were and what they did both ways on the team and more irreplaceable
00:25:31than Klay Thompson was obviously Kevin Durant during the years. He was there. Cheat code
00:25:35doesn't really count, but obviously more important there when Kevin Durant was on the team and Iggy
00:25:40was on the team. I think Klay Thompson was the fifth guy. I think Klay Thompson was the Jalen
00:25:45Brown of that team. I think Jalen Brown's a better player, honestly, than what Klay Thompson was on
00:25:49that team. I would rank Jalen higher now than would have Klay on that spot. So yeah, I think
00:25:54actually that's a really interesting comp, like going, I think back to like guys that we put in
00:25:59the hall of fame. Now, Michael Cooper just went in the hall of fame this week. Again, another Laker,
00:26:04we put guys who win a bunch of championships in the hall of fame and we revere them because the
00:26:10whole point is winning championships. The whole point is banner 18 and banner 19. Like that's
00:26:14what we're doing here. We can celebrate them. I honestly don't even like if I did my hall of fame,
00:26:20I don't think I'd put those guys in, in theory, but maybe I would win your hall of fame. Shouldn't
00:26:24the champions be in, shouldn't the guys that are part of these dining, like stop ranking and put
00:26:29the guys in that are actually doing the stuff. And like Jalen Brown is a finals and conference finals
00:26:34MVP and champion and probably future multi-time champion. And in my hall of fame, my ranking or
00:26:40not, he should be on like that stuff matters. You got the trophies. That's why we play the games.
00:26:46So I think Klay is really interesting. I think that's a really interesting comp that you came
00:26:50up with. I have a comp question for you that I'm going to spin back to you. So I mentioned
00:26:54McHale bridges. I have him exactly right after Jalen Brown. Here's what I'd like to know to you
00:26:59guys, McHale bridges and Jalen Brown. Think back to last season, McHale, obviously in Brooklyn,
00:27:05not a guy we watched a lot of, right? Cause who cares about the nets? They're terrible.
00:27:09They're forgettable. He's the star on the team. They're not good. If you swapped Jalen Brown and
00:27:15McHale bridges, I'd like to know, genuinely, I don't know the answer to this. We don't know.
00:27:19We have to guess. Do you think the Celtics would be noticeably better or worse? And do you think
00:27:25the nets would be noticeably better or worse in the context from last season swap Jalen from
00:27:30McHale? What do you guys think? You haven't talked to him while you want to take this first. You want
00:27:36me to go here? Well, go ahead. While you're talking to a guy that values McHale bridges
00:27:42very highly. I loved him at Villanova. So like, I'm like the guys that you see, the thing,
00:27:46the problem here is you named a bunch of guys in that range that I had ranked higher than you.
00:27:51I love Bam Adebayo. I'm a huge fan. I love McHale bridges. Draymond. Now they're a little older. I
00:27:56have a little, I don't view him as highly anymore, but like those three guys right there are like,
00:28:01are guys that affect winning in different ways. But to your question of if you had swapped him,
00:28:08would there be any noticeable difference? I think Jalen is a better one-on-one score in terms of
00:28:16you know, getting to his spot. The one thing with Jalen this past year, and this is a two-year thing,
00:28:22getting to a spot, putting guys in the torture chamber and going to work and scoring efficiently
00:28:27is been such a huge revelation in his game. The three point shooting is, has obviously come a
00:28:34long way. His feel has come a long way. And you mentioned that with Matt, like him and Porzingis,
00:28:38like unlocked both each other simultaneously. It was, it was wonderful. So he's grown a lot
00:28:44of different areas, but the biggest one, and I always go back to like his work with Tracy
00:28:48McGrady in Atlanta, in the off season, TMAC has taught him how to live in, in that mid range game.
00:28:55Like if you go back and look in 2023, 22, 23, Jalen was 58% from two point range, which was
00:29:04better than Kyrie Dame, Mitchell, Jimmy Butler, Jason Tatum, Devin Booker, Kawhi Leonard, Julius
00:29:10Randall. And he did it on the ninth most attempts in the league. So he's become this unreal mid
00:29:16range player who is stronger, has better moves than he had in the past. And that's where I like
00:29:23McHale is a better defender, full stop. He's one of the best wing defenders in the league. I think
00:29:28he's a better three point shooter. Although Jalen has gotten much better at that. I would, I, if you
00:29:32had him, Hey, we'll do a three point contest. Who's your money on? I'd probably take McHale Bridges.
00:29:37Um, and there are other aspects to Bridges game, like the fact that he can guard up and down a
00:29:41little bit better, um, that I think make him very interesting, but there are certain things that
00:29:46Jalen has, where I think if you were like, Hey, Jalen, here's the ball, go get us as many as you
00:29:51can. I think there, he would score in different ways. And I think he could have more points.
00:29:56The thing with Jalen has been this past year is scoring was down because everybody else is,
00:30:00there's too many mouths to feed. And so I think if you gave him the opportunity of someone like a,
00:30:06like a Trey young, right, where Trey's the main focal hub of an offense, they'd look a lot
00:30:11different. Now the assist numbers wouldn't be nearly where Trey's are. Trey is an unbelievable
00:30:16passer, but the scoring, I think the output would be somewhat similar. They wouldn't come off from
00:30:21three point range. He would feast in the mid range a little bit more, but I think he'd still scored
00:30:2528, 29, 30 game if he needed to. I just, I'm thinking about the bigger picture of this whole
00:30:31thing and this whole discussion where, you know, like I, I, I think the clay comp was a great one.
00:30:36It was a good discussion. I think the McHale bridges question is a relevant one,
00:30:41but if we're sitting here and sort of, you know, gnawing at the bone of whether like, whether a
00:30:48dude being ranked just barely inside the top 50 is proper or disrespectful or what have you,
00:30:58you need to think about the overall scope of the league. Now the league, as everyone out there
00:31:02knows, who's listening to this show, you know, you're, if you're talking about a guy that is
00:31:06ranked, what'd you have 49th, 47th, whatever the number was, you know, this is that, that means
00:31:14effectively that you are saying if anyone out there did this exercise of putting rankings together
00:31:19and, and, you know, and anybody in your top 60, you're saying, you know, that guy in the 30 to 60
00:31:26range is in the category of could be the second best player on a team. Because obviously if you're
00:31:32one through 30, you're a number one. And then if you're two, you know, 31 through 60, you are in
00:31:39the conversation to be a number two, you're just not quite at the one range. I don't think anybody
00:31:45around here removing bias would sit and say the Jalen Brown is a number one on any team across
00:31:55the board. Jason Tatum's that guy. Jason Tatum is a number one on any NBA team. Jalen Brown could
00:32:02be a number one on some NBA teams, but he wouldn't flourish the same way that he does in his role
00:32:09that he is currently in. And we are all in agreement in, in dissecting that. It just sort
00:32:14of becomes, again, this is like the, the nitpicking element of this exercise of, you know, we're not
00:32:23ranking guy. Like I fundamentally, if we're just looking at like specifically this year, 2024,
00:32:31as we sit here on October 18th, coming off of banner 18, and we're looking at guys after last
00:32:38year into this year, like I wouldn't have Jalen Brown behind Draymond Green. If you want to say,
00:32:42what I have Jalen Brown behind Draymond Green, if I'm ranking their careers, sure. That's a
00:32:46different conversation entirely. But if I'm ranking them going into this new season, no,
00:32:51of course I wouldn't, because I just think that Jalen is still on the ascent. I think that Green
00:32:56is on the decline and you know, they are, are not guys that necessarily are. I think that's,
00:33:04I think it's too low for Brown. I think it's too high for Draymond, but again, we're sort of
00:33:08quibbling at that, at that point. You know what I mean? I think for Brown, where people could get
00:33:13butt hurt in this conversation is looking at it and saying, as you acknowledged already,
00:33:19Finals MVP, Eastern Conference Finals MVP, tremendous year last year. And so coming off
00:33:25of last year, living in the present in the here and now, is Jalen Brown a top 30 player?
00:33:31Some people would put him there. I wouldn't, but some people would put him there. I think he's
00:33:35probably more in the 30 to 40 range. And then if a guy is in a 30 to 40 range to me, and he's in
00:33:42the 40 to 50 range to you, what the fuck are we talking about? Like we're basically saying the
00:33:47exact same thing, right? I mean, in the grand scheme of the entire NBA, we're essentially saying
00:33:52the same thing. Where you sort of caught me before, and I don't know if you reacted to this
00:33:57at all, Ev, was the saying that Jalen of the starting five for the Celtics is the worst defender.
00:34:07That I, that I have a hard time with. Now you could look at, there are all sorts of different
00:34:13metrics and places that you can go, obviously, for advanced analytics. Like if I pull up
00:34:19Basketball Reference and look at their defensive win share for each of the Celtics starting five
00:34:25guys for 2023-24, which is, you know, it's such a hollow way to look at it anyway, because obviously
00:34:32guys miss time, there are injuries, whatever. But Jalen had a 3.2. Chris Tapps, who as we know,
00:34:40missed considerable time, had a 3. White had a 3.3. Holiday had a 3. Tatum had a 4.1.
00:34:51All defensive guys in the NBA over the last few years who were Celtics. As we know, last year,
00:34:59a couple of second teamers, White and Holiday, who I'm perfectly comfortable putting ahead of
00:35:03Brown defensively. Tatum has not made the list. Marcus Smart was there a couple of times. I barely
00:35:09honestly even remember Rob Williams being there, but he was as a second teamer a couple of years
00:35:14back. It's hard to even picture him on the floor at this point in time. Get well, Rob, we love you.
00:35:19But Jalen being the worst of the five, when he just, you know, like, I think that is more of a,
00:35:29did he take a step back last year or in the year prior to that from what his level actually is and
00:35:36what he is capable of and can he get back to it? Like, I don't know, Ev, would you put,
00:35:44like, I'm fine. Porzingis for me is the worst defender on the team. Yeah, like, I can't put
00:35:49him behind Porzingis, BA. That's the one that I keep getting stuck on. It's more of a one-on-one
00:35:54defense thing too. Like, Porzingis is a tremendous rim protector. That's not, I'm not taking anything
00:35:59away from him. But like, I have nightmares about Dejounte Murray going off in the fourth quarter
00:36:04of a back-to-back against Atlanta where they just kept doing pick and roll and getting Porzingis
00:36:11switched onto a smaller guy and Dejounte Murray cooked them every single time. And it's something
00:36:16that they, they're actively aware that Porzingis on an island with a guard like that is just going
00:36:21to be really tough for them. And that's, if I have to ding Porzingis, that's where I ding him. Like,
00:36:26he's really hard in space sometimes against certain guys, whereas Jalen, you know, yeah,
00:36:31he's 6'6 and when you put a bigger, you know, center on him, sure, it's going to be tough,
00:36:36but because he's added so much strength, he's been able to body guys a little differently,
00:36:41which is why he's kind of okay with Luka because Luka is very, very strong for a guy his size
00:36:47and Jalen's pushing back on him and doesn't really give up a ton of ground there.
00:36:52But like, again, like, what are we really talking about here? We're talking about the,
00:36:55either the worst or the second worst defensive guy on a team that's like, I don't know,
00:37:01the worst, the second best defensive team in the league behind the Minnesotans. What are we really
00:37:06getting at here? It's like, it's such a luxury. And this is where we get back to this conversation
00:37:10of this team is such a luxury. It's unbelievable how they put this thing together. They have
00:37:16five guys, they're five out and they can all defend and they all can guard their yard. Like
00:37:21this is, you, you pray for times like this, right? This is just, it's an, but we have to
00:37:27have this conversation because we're ranking where these guys are. So like I would say,
00:37:31I would put Porzingis fifth person. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. I think that honestly,
00:37:37I think that makes sense. And a lot of this really is, is comes back to framing, right?
00:37:40Like nobody wants to be the worst, anything. The worst of five really good options is actually
00:37:46still a compliment, but if you call it a worst, you're still going to feel like crap after that.
00:37:50Cause no one wants to be the worst. I think like, I think Porzingis Browning is a fair comparison
00:37:55that defensively, uh, honestly you'll watch it more than I do. So I will see to your opinion
00:38:00in that way. Uh, I feel like for me, the, probably the thing that I'm thinking slightly differently
00:38:04on is that just even still in a modern NBA, even as the big men have, have gotten a little less
00:38:10important, big men defensively still have such a bigger outsize impact defensively than anything
00:38:17else. And like Boston has shown otherwise perimeter defenders with drew and Derek white,
00:38:21just hounding dudes time after time. But like in the finals, Jalen gets the top assignment,
00:38:27right? Jalen goes after Luca. Like that's what matters. And that's why the spotlight's on.
00:38:31That's a lot of why he won finals MVP. I think to me, Porzingis and maybe it comes a semantics
00:38:37here. I think maybe Porzingis is not the better defender, quote unquote, but I think he is the
00:38:43more impactful defender in a team sense. Like I think what he does because he's a big man,
00:38:48because of what the scheme is, is more important to the team than what Jalen does as if they're,
00:38:55if we call them tied for the fourth defender on the team, from that perspective, I think
00:39:00night to night, 30 match-ups in the league, what the big man rim protector does is more impactful.
00:39:06And including honestly, up to what you're saying, like it's more impactful negatively when it
00:39:11doesn't go well. Like we noticed that more with the big man. And like, unless you are women Yama
00:39:16or, you know, a couple other dudes really go bear four-time defensive player of the year gets put
00:39:22on an Island and gets cooked in the playoff sometimes. Cause it turns out that's real hard
00:39:26to defend against in the NBA and just whatever a big man can't do that. So like, yeah, I have
00:39:32to include that in my analysis of Porzingis, but I have to like consider the context to that.
00:39:36Like, all right, well, most guys are going to like, that's, we're switching on to pigs and
00:39:41trying to get the jumper over. You're like, that's the thing that we're doing in the NBA.
00:39:45Most guys are going to give that up. So yeah, I think it's close in that way. It kind of comes
00:39:49with semantics. I do think, I hate to say this on the eve of the season, then this obviously Celtics
00:39:57all in on the title team this year, Porzingis, we know the aging thing. We know Horford's not
00:40:02going to be able to play around forever. I think long-term because of the contract situation,
00:40:08because of the big money that the Jays are getting now, I think if I had to guess
00:40:14that a few years from now, we're going to get to a spot where like, you can't just keep probably,
00:40:21you probably can't just keep getting Derek White and drew holiday and Chris Porzingis on crazy
00:40:26discounts forever. Maybe Brad Stevens can, that's my finals MVP. Brad can just keep finding these
00:40:32guys and building a team, incredible team build at some point, those contracts run off at some
00:40:38point, these mega max deals kick in. And we're seeing that happen with some of these other teams
00:40:43around the league. I think with Jalen Brown, I think with bam out of bio as Jimmy Butler ages out,
00:40:50we hear people talk about them as like, well, shouldn't we build the team around that guy?
00:40:55I think we're going to get there eventually. And I would like to circle back in that three-year
00:41:00window and say, okay, all right. Jalen Brown's the best player on our team. Now how's that team
00:41:05doing? Are they in the play in this year? Did they fall short of the play in this year? Because
00:41:09that's what I think happens. If you take a top 30, 40, 50 player, whatever we're calling Jalen Brown
00:41:16and made him be the star on the team, the guy who has to be the engine, the young type guy to try to
00:41:23do everything, the guy to raise the floor and the ceiling. I just don't think that's what he is.
00:41:30Now he's still young enough that maybe there's more there to tap into. Maybe we get there.
00:41:35We have to guess. We have no idea. We haven't seen him have to do that in Boston. We hopefully
00:41:40won't have to see that because that would probably imply like multiple major injuries.
00:41:43That's not what he's asked to do. We can't, it's hard to ding him for not doing a thing. He hasn't
00:41:48been asked to do, but my job to me ranking players and thinking about players is to, is to do that,
00:41:55is to try to evaluate as best I can. But like similarly, I ended up pretty low on Jalen Brunson
00:42:02in New York comparatively. That was one Matt Morehead, Jalen Brunson fifth, which I think
00:42:06is ludicrous. I cannot imagine putting a small guard at his age fifth in the entire NBA is
00:42:13absolutely crazy to me. I have an 18th, which I think other people would find just as equally
00:42:19crazy, but I have them similar to like Donovan Mitchell or to Trey young. And I asked myself,
00:42:24what if you took either of those guys and put them in New York and said, do the things that
00:42:29Jalen Brunson has asked to do there. How would they do? I think pretty similarly,
00:42:33I think they would do pretty similarly. I think they would be similarly flawed in some ways.
00:42:38I think they would be similarly huge offensively in some ways. I think they'd win a bunch of games
00:42:43because New York is a pretty good team. I think they'd lose the division of the Celtics because
00:42:46the Celtics are a much better team. And I think that's what happened. We get a similar result
00:42:51there. So I don't know that that all is hard to talk about because we're just making theoretical
00:42:57basketball. Now, you know, in October, we don't have to do theoretical basketball anymore. We can
00:43:02argue for now and then turn the game on on Tuesday and then watch the Celtics beat the Knicks. And
00:43:06then we don't have to beat theoretical anymore. That will just happen. But in August and in
00:43:11September, what do we have? But theoretical basketball, I mean, yeah, I love to watch Sam
00:43:17Hauser shoot jumpers and I love I'm blanking. I'm blanking on his name right now. I was going to give
00:43:23him some love. Who's who's who's our who's our guy from Arkansas that the two way defendant
00:43:28Jordan Walsh. He's going to he's going to he's going to love Jordan Walsh. I am so excited about
00:43:34Jordan Walsh. Arkansas was loaded the year that he was on the team. And so I watched a lot of their
00:43:39film. Jordan Walsh is a dude like Jordan Walsh is going to take the top guy every night if he gets
00:43:45out there like he to me is the spirit of Marcus Smart reincarnated for this team. I have no idea
00:43:52if you could do anything offensively. Spirit of Marcus Smart reincarnated. But if he can find a
00:43:57way to stay on the court, the dog in him defensively, the one on one point of attack defensive
00:44:03thing, his instincts are so good and so fun. I think he's such a perfect Celtic. So I'm really
00:44:10excited about him. But guess what? We're not going to see him play very much because the team is so
00:44:15good that he's going to like hang out with Brandon in Maine part of the season and probably playing
00:44:20for the G League team, developing as he should to then be the guy replacing the guys down the way
00:44:27we get real basketball now. And Jalen Brown will just win a whole bunch of games and make
00:44:31my ranking look stupider and stupider as the season goes on. But, you know, that's the fun of it.
00:44:36All right. We'll take a quick break. Get right back to the show. What we got to tell you today's
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00:45:38super deal, which means it's in the top 1% of all tickets available for that event. If it has that
00:45:45super deal, you better pounce immediately because those tickets will not be there long. They're too
00:45:51good of a deal. Lowest price guarantee, like I've said, so download the game time app, create an
00:45:56account, use the code. It is CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Again, that code CLNS. Terms do
00:46:03apply. Again, create an account, redeem the code CLNS, $20 off download game time today. What time
00:46:10is it? Game time. Let's get back to the show. All right, so let's go there and we won't spend too
00:46:16much longer on the show, but just obviously there is a new season upon us. The Celtics, what they
00:46:21did last year was absurd. It was an incredible year. It was so much fun to watch. Time will tell
00:46:27it to Brandon's point as far as what the Celtics are willing to do contractually and new ownership
00:46:32whenever that comes in, whomever it winds up being is going to certainly impact that as well
00:46:37because we'll see how deep those pockets are. Thank God it's not going to be FSG, John Henry
00:46:41and company staying away from this team according to the latest reports, but you know, this Celtics
00:46:46team in the, and I don't mean, you know, 24, 25. I mean, in like this grouping together, we're
00:46:53going to find out over the course of time, whether they are the newest NBA dynasty or whether they're,
00:46:59you know, the Atlanta Braves, like the, the team that just kept getting there again,
00:47:03they're getting there. And only one at the one time, who knows, we're going to find out, but
00:47:08we all believe off of what we saw last year. And certainly the odds makers would agree.
00:47:13Like this team is favored for a reason. They dominated. I'm not even sure domination is,
00:47:20is doing it justice. The NBA last year in, you know, it was like a 14 game lead on the rest of
00:47:26the league in the regular season. Nothing was ever really a challenge in the grand scheme of
00:47:31things in the playoffs. They just went out and wire to wire did the thing. They run back the
00:47:36whole thing. Everybody's back of consequence. And you add on top of that, you know, we'll,
00:47:41we'll see if Baylor Shireman is a player or how much opportunity he gets as a rookie, but
00:47:46this team going in, yes, there's the injury to Chris snaps. We're saying is to start the year and
00:47:51debates as to the timeline. And I I'm still, I've, I've been saying this for months. I'm not
00:47:56going to be surprised if we don't see him until 2025, even though he'd like to be back probably
00:48:00around Thanksgiving, who knows, you know, that'll, that'll bear itself out. And like everyone has
00:48:05acknowledged, Horford's going to miss a considerable chunk of the year, just between
00:48:09load management and minutes restrictions and all of that stuff. And that's even an injury,
00:48:13not withstanding, and hopefully everybody can stay healthy. The question ultimately here is,
00:48:18you know, I don't need to sit and ask either of you guys. So how good could the Celtics be?
00:48:22We've seen it. We just saw the movie. We know how good the Celtics can be. The question is,
00:48:27who is capable of knocking them off specifically in the East, who prevents them from getting to
00:48:32the NBA finals again? If in fact come April and beyond, they are healthy. The Knicks went out
00:48:37and they have remodeled their situation, Randall out cat in, they made some changes around that,
00:48:44and it'll be a fun opening night. Can't wait to see it. The bucks, you know, it's year two,
00:48:49first full year under Doc and, and now like, can Giannis and Dame actually work? I am the
00:48:56poster child of having doubts for that. I don't take them seriously. I am on an island as Brandon
00:49:01might say in all of his action content, action island. I am on an, I am on Giannis Island to
00:49:06where this is one of the only times in life I don't believe in him or that team. Philly, Paul
00:49:12George, latest wrinkle, who knows how much of the year he's going to miss with this injury. So who
00:49:18in the Eastern conference before we even tackle the West, who in the Eastern conference BA gets in
00:49:23the way is a problem, prevents the Celtics from being there, at least in the conversation for
00:49:28banner 19 come June. I think there's only one team that is even really a consideration to me.
00:49:34And this is why I think the Celtics are just going to be playing in the finals in June and why I
00:49:38would focus more on the Western matchups to me. I don't know if they'll get there, but the team
00:49:44that could get there, if things work, right, is the Milwaukee bucks. And it's, it's a couple of
00:49:49reasons. Number one, they didn't have a lot. They could do the soft season. They didn't make the big
00:49:54splash moves. I did like what they did do. They, they signed the lawn, right? A nice point of
00:50:00attack defender, not drew holiday, but I drew holiday type guy that they didn't have last year
00:50:06to defend. Now he's older. He's not going to be able to play a lot, but I've always liked him.
00:50:10He's a guy that adds something that he didn't have. They signed Gary trend, jr. The guy that
00:50:14is probably like a 15, $20 million player at the minimum. Now I don't think he should be a 15,
00:50:19$20 million player, but they got him. They got his shooting in the lineup.
00:50:23They haven't had that. They needed the shooter. They got the shooter. They signed tar in a prince,
00:50:28a guy that I've never been super high on, but that I think is a really good for when Chris
00:50:33Middleton misses his 30 games this year, Chris Middleton light sort of replacement.
00:50:39I think those guys are much better role players than what the team had last year,
00:50:45which raised the floor, which keep them in things. And I think those are guys
00:50:49that are going to be more playoff difference makers where last year they're just running
00:50:54on fumes when you get to like guy five, six, seven, eight on the roster. So that's part of it.
00:50:59Well, let's be real. Like that's not why they would contend or beat the Celtics or win a
00:51:03championship. It's gotta be the two top guys. Giannis we know Giannis, I think has gotten a
00:51:08little bit, almost weirdly forgotten, slept on a little bit just because he keeps getting hurt
00:51:13at the wrong time in the playoffs. And it's been a couple of years now since they did the thing
00:51:17to be fair, he's really not ever done the thing the one time. So we need to see it more. We need
00:51:23to see him be healthy and do the thing. He's getting a little too close to Joel and bead
00:51:26status. I need actual Giannis on the court doing the thing when it matters to me, if the box can
00:51:34hang, it is a bet on Damian Lillard, Damian Lillard. If game is still in there is a guy,
00:51:41Matt and I talked to us in our rankings. He's a guy that we did not have in our top 10,
00:51:46but if he still looks like the part this year, the guy that they thought they're hoping to trade for
00:51:51he absolutely the year before it was a top 10 player. And I don't think number 10 either.
00:51:56Like I had him basically neck and neck with Steph Curry. And you heard how I talked about
00:52:00Steph Curry this stage of his career, but still that's how good Dame is. If he's still in there,
00:52:06if last year was the team change and the coaching change and some injuries and the long off season,
00:52:12if that was all the thing, and we still get Damon there, then here's the problem.
00:52:17Here's why when I come to a Celtics matchup where I'm like, okay, I have to take them seriously.
00:52:21Janice is the best player on the court. I don't know that we can argue about that.
00:52:26I think Dame as good as he is can be the second best player on the court, depending on the night,
00:52:32depending on how the matchup plays out. I understand I'm getting faces, Jason Tatum,
00:52:37Dame Lillard. I think it's close. We're back to that, like five to 10 range. Who do you like a
00:52:42little better? It depends on the night. And I will say Dame in the matchup is going to get hounded
00:52:48by Derek White and Drew holiday. So now I don't like Dame in the matchup as much anymore. Like
00:52:52that's, has to be part of the analysis when they get there. But if I get Janice,
00:52:57the best player on the court, the best player in a series, I always had to take that seriously.
00:53:01That's why, even as I saw the Celtics storming toward the title last year,
00:53:06my brain broke a little bit because I was like, okay, we've never seen a team with five top 50
00:53:11dudes. I don't know what to do with that. But we also don't often see title teams with a,
00:53:17with their best player being number five or seven or 10 or whatever range you want to do for Tatum.
00:53:23We usually see a title team where it's top three, where it's a number that like, even y'all,
00:53:28I don't think would put Jason Tatum in the rankings of things. It's a Yanis. It's a Yoko.
00:53:32It's a step in his prime. It's a LeBron. Like that's who leads title teams. Cause you want
00:53:37to have the best player on the court at the end of the day in your series. And I think that's the
00:53:42thing where we didn't really see Boston have to do that until the finals and Luca was supposed to
00:53:48be the best player and Luca wasn't the best player. It wasn't good enough in the finals.
00:53:52He was good. He did his thing. Celtics were better and great teams can beat the best player.
00:53:58But to me, that's why when I look at the team, the added depth and roster building Yanis,
00:54:05but it's gotta be Dame. It has to be Dame, at least making you think twice before you make
00:54:10the face about the Dame Tatum comparison has to be him. If not, then I think it's just a stroll
00:54:16through the East. I'm a little worried about y'all's big men, the depths that will be fine.
00:54:22By the time they get to the playoffs, everyone will be arrested. I agree. Poising is probably
00:54:26not till the next calendar year. Keep Horford and bubble wrap. Get everyone there. I love my gaze,
00:54:31Xavier Tillman. He can play some minutes for a while. Incredible pickup at the deadline last
00:54:35year. Like coordinate can play. He'll be fine. They'll figure some stuff out. They'll get to
00:54:40the postseason is all of the big men are finding the Celtics storm through the East.
00:54:45The box to me or the one team that maybe could give some trouble.
00:54:50Yeah, I mean, I'm not like Hoffman. I can dismiss them because I'm just because I watched
00:54:55the honest against this team in seven games and just give them tons of hell. But again,
00:55:01this is to me more about the way that championships have been won in basketball
00:55:08recently. And that goes like college and pros where it's it's not just about like if it was
00:55:14about the best part of the floor, then, you know, Caitlin Clark in Iowa would have been in South
00:55:18Carolina. You know, UConn would have lost to Zack Headey. And you can make that argument, I guess,
00:55:24because Zack Headey in college was unbelievable, but they would have lost Purdue, right? This is
00:55:30we're in a new era of basketball that I think was where the sum of the parts can actually be a huge
00:55:37difference, because I think basketball previously has been who's the best player on the court.
00:55:41That team's probably going to win. Well, Boston's like, well, if we don't have number one, we'll
00:55:46probably have two, three, four, five and six. Yeah, good luck with that. And that and they
00:55:51and that's why that's how you get the most 50 point, 40 point, 30 point, 20 point leads in
00:55:55NBA history. Like they they absolutely stop people. And, you know, one of the things that
00:56:00as we look at the season and like who can trip Boston up, it's got to be a team that's got a
00:56:05lot of depth. And I, you know, Milwaukee did the best they possibly could, I think, considering
00:56:12their roster construction and the things that they could do. It doesn't help that their draft
00:56:18picks just haven't really panned out lately. That's that's not great. But they did move
00:56:22some things on the margins, like the Gary Trent Jr. thing is like, oh, my God, how did it's like
00:56:27the same with how does this get Lonnie Walker for an Exhibit 10 contract? That's crazy. How is Gary
00:56:32Trent playing on the minimum for the Milwaukee Bucks? I guess it doesn't make any sense. I think
00:56:35they've done a better job to upgrade the personnel around Giannis. And to me, it's a bet mostly just
00:56:42like Giannis goes off for 40 every game, which I think he could easily do in a seven game series,
00:56:47hit 40 points or 50 points four times because that guy's amazing. But I think it's a team with
00:56:52depth. And the only team that has the depth that would scare me is New York. But the problem,
00:56:58New York's depth is it's extremely injury prone. You're looking at O.G. Ananobi,
00:57:02Mitchell Robinson. I'm not a huge cat fan. I'm just not, you know, Jalen Brunson. The
00:57:07mileage he's been putting on his by the past two years is not ideal. And I look at that as like,
00:57:15OK, Boston, it's basically health or bust. If other teams aren't healthy, then it's going to
00:57:20be even easier for them. I like Cleveland a bit, but I just think, again, some of the talent is
00:57:25going to be too much. Indiana, I just absolutely love that team. I know they can't defend a chair,
00:57:33but they for my my money, in my opinion, gave Boston the hardest time they possibly could have
00:57:39throughout the playoffs, even though it was a sweep. That's a team that's really hard to
00:57:42play because their offense is so sophisticated. But at the end of the day, like as we've talked
00:57:47about ad nauseum in the show, the Celtics team is primed to be the first repeat champion since
00:57:52the Warriors. And there aren't too many teams in their way. And I think you almost just have to
00:57:57look at the Western Conference, say one of these teams out here. That's their best. It's the best
00:58:02shot. And it's like an Oklahoma City thing. You know, maybe it's a Dallas thing. We'll see what
00:58:07they do. We'll see how clay looks. You know, maybe it's a Minnesota thing. If Ant takes a jump like
00:58:13it's it's it's not going to be an East team. I don't think really any East team has a shot.
00:58:17And as we look at this play this season and we can we can look at the landscape, I don't think
00:58:23there's a single team in the Eastern Conference that can hang with this team. And I'm very
00:58:26confident in saying that. All right, then let's in the interest of time, because we've already
00:58:33been at it for an hour, it's been a long show. People have attention spans. I recognize that.
00:58:38I think we could spend a lot of time breaking down the West, but I'd rather sort of do that
00:58:43when the time comes. Let's kind of go out with predictions. And, you know, what what does
00:58:49ultimately this season look like for the Celtics? What are the I know what like our our sort of
00:58:57general expectations are. But, you know, push comes to shove when we can look back on this
00:59:02mid-October show come April and beyond. Were we were we right or wrong? What are your expectations
00:59:08for the Celtics this year, both of you? And also, if you have them in the or you know what, I won't
00:59:13even frame it that way. What is your finals matchup and who wins? Let's let's do it that way.
00:59:17And Brandon, let's start with you. What is my finals matchup? I'm an NBA analyst. I should
00:59:25have an answer to that question, shouldn't I? I guess I'm about to have an answer to that question.
00:59:30All right. Well, I am at the Action Network, so I'm going to give you my one betting pick for the
00:59:34show here. Celtics doing the division is minus 140, minus 145. That to me is like I would make
00:59:42that that basically implies the Celtics are like 60 percent to win the division.
00:59:46I think that that y'all are like 80 percent. Like I think the Knicks and the Sixers are
00:59:50significantly worse. I think Boston, even with the regular season big man thing, I think they coast
00:59:56through the division. I think even the low end Boston outcome is better than the likely high
01:00:03end outcomes for either of those teams. So I think Boston rolls to the regular season.
01:00:09I think, honestly, it's not even a team I probably will pay a ton of attention to in
01:00:15a regular season, because like what what am I going to learn about this team that I don't know
01:00:19already? I know they're going to shoot a lot of threes and I can defend hard and they're going
01:00:23to be better than all the teams. You didn't ask me, like, who do I think is going to beat them
01:00:27in the West? I thought you were. So I'm looking over here. There's not an answer. There's no
01:00:32other team that's as good as the Celtics. So does that mean that I'm going to pick the Celtics
01:00:37when the championship? I think I had to pick a team to hang with them from the West. I'll give
01:00:42you two names just to throw out somebody because we need to throw out somebody. I'll throw out
01:00:46the Nuggets. We just saw them in the championship the year before. Obviously, it's a tough matchup.
01:00:53Yoko just tough matchup for everybody. The vibes are whatever the opposite of immaculate is like
01:00:58it is not great coming out of Denver right now. I'm worried about Jamal Murray. I'm not that worried
01:01:04about the loss of KCP, but it's a very thin roster overall. Now, I think it could go badly
01:01:10in Denver, but I am the biggest Yoko guy that there is. He's awesome. He is number one with
01:01:15a bullet on my list. As far as rankings go tear of his own. If he's healthy, if Denver is healthy
01:01:22and ready to go, I had to take them seriously. I can't believe I'm saying this. I think if things
01:01:29come together right under Budenholzer, maybe the sons are just so good offensively. I think the
01:01:36Celtics are an offensive team. Like they've been the defensive team for so long. People kind of
01:01:42overlooked that y'all were just bombing threes and running teams off the court offensively last year.
01:01:48It's not what we think of from an NBA fandom standpoint as we, we think of generally the
01:01:53Celtics as this hardworking defensive team, which you still are, but under Missoula,
01:01:58that's why I think he's underrated. The offense has taken the leap to the next level. I think you
01:02:02have to beat the Celtics with offense. So that's why I think maybe the sons could do that. I mean,
01:02:08now you get to the matchup and the, you know, Booker and Durant are going to have their hands
01:02:11full with the guys over there. I don't think it's going to go that well. I don't think it's going
01:02:15to go that well for anyone. I think if you said Celtics or the field, I would have to take the
01:02:20field because I'm a better, and I know what the odds are and that's how things go. It's really
01:02:25hard to win two championships in a row. I don't know who beats the Celtics. I think somebody
01:02:32probably does in an upset as the worst team because basketball happened because sports happened
01:02:38because it's really hard to win, to go through a hundred more games now with the target on the
01:02:45back that they're about to have. And look, they seem to be embracing the target. Like I think
01:02:49there's a possibility of like a push for 65, 70 wins that they're just like, Oh,
01:02:54Brandon Anderson says number 47. Oh, you're benching me off the Olympic team or cut me
01:02:59entirely. Like perhaps not in that order. Perhaps Brandon's not high on the list of things we're
01:03:04mad about. I think they might just come out and it's on the list for sure. Like it's, it's, it's
01:03:10at least 47th on the list, right? Let's be fair that way. I think that the Celtics are in this
01:03:17for the long haul, very clearly barring multiple major injuries, honestly, because the roster is
01:03:23that good that I think even just one, they'd still be in the mix that much finals prediction.
01:03:29I will put the Celtics in the finals. I don't know that I'm quite ready to believe in the
01:03:33box. I'm going to need to see a lot of it. And frankly, I didn't need to see Yannis there
01:03:38in the playoffs healthy. So put the Celtics in the finals.
01:03:42I don't really know that I want to back the nuggets right now to get there. I certainly
01:03:46don't super believe in the sun's getting there. I just try to find a matchup.
01:03:50So let me just be real boring and go chalk here. If I'm going to pick what I think is the most
01:03:55likely outcome, I think the thunder are the best team in the West. Uh, Shagel, just Alexander is
01:04:00my MVP pick for the year. Jalen Williams is my most improved player pick for the year. I'm a
01:04:05huge chat home grin guy. That would be a fun matchup. I think Boston would smoke. Okay. See
01:04:10in the finals, because you get all the experience versus the young team. Like how many times have
01:04:15we seen that version of the finals where, okay. C comes back a few years later and like, Oh yeah,
01:04:20we got, we lost, we got swept, you know, remember that year when we were too young and we weren't
01:04:24ready at like, I think we'd get there. I don't know if I see, okay. See getting there necessarily
01:04:29this year, but I think that would be the outcome. I think that's my pick. Well, we'll go Celtics
01:04:35over thunder in five in the finals. I mean, you know, you're talking to a guy that's been
01:04:43trying to get people to understand that the season we just watched is one of the best seasons
01:04:47we've seen in a long time. And I think this team is one of the best teams we've seen in a long time.
01:04:51I think it's historic, but we just watched, I think they're going to do it again. Um,
01:04:56I, I believe in the thunder team a lot because I think the thunder, uh, they lost to the Mavericks
01:05:02because of shooting variants. They just did not shoot the ball well at all from three point range
01:05:06in that series. And if they do, they probably beat Dallas and they probably go on to the finals.
01:05:12And here we are talking about it. Um, I, I think they've done a great job of bolstering their
01:05:17roster in places they needed. The Caruso piece was so nice. That's going to annoy the crap out
01:05:22of me because that's such a great stuff for them. The Harnstein pickup, I've been saying to Knicks
01:05:25fans, that's going to be a huge loss. I know they got cat, but Harnstein, if you watch those games,
01:05:30he was excellent, not just as an offensive rebounder, but as a facilitator for a big guy.
01:05:35I thought he was awesome. I think Oklahoma city is loaded and it'll be an experience if it takes
01:05:42them down or some huge injury to Shay, but he's been super durable. I love Shay. Um, he's arguably
01:05:48the fastest North South player in the league, him, Maxie and Darren Fox. He's hard to stop.
01:05:54Um, I, and it's, it's chalk. So maybe I'll just pick somebody else, but nobody's beating the
01:05:58Celtics if they're healthy. So it doesn't really matter to me. I'll be a rarely quick with mine,
01:06:03because I'm largely in agreement with what both of you have been saying. You know, there's an
01:06:07expression, put your money where your mouth is. Uh, I'm going to put my mouth where my money is.
01:06:12I have made only two futures bets in the NBA so far, largely because unlike Brandon here,
01:06:19who will make a zillion of them, uh, and profit long-term. So that's not a criticism. I am,
01:06:24I just don't have the patience for it. Uh, so I, I don't like to see those just sitting in my
01:06:29bets left the whole time, but the, the two bets that I have made in terms of NBA futures Celtics
01:06:34to win the championship thunder to win the West again, both chalky. I readily admit.
01:06:42It's just what I think is going to happen. And I may as well bet what I believe.
01:06:46Uh, I, I think the Celtics are poised to do it again, provided they stay healthy, but that's the
01:06:50ultimate if with every single team and every single sport of history at time. And, uh, you
01:06:56know, the, the thunder, I do, you know, we, we were saying it all throughout last year of, I mean,
01:07:00we were not at all surprised by what OKC was doing last year. We, you know, we've been saying
01:07:07since this time last year, watch out for the thunder. They're on the ascent. They're young.
01:07:11They're coming. The only thing that maybe did surprise us was quite how good they looked,
01:07:16how fast, uh, you know, I, I didn't see that being awesome right away was just wow.
01:07:21Shocking. Awesome. Yeah. So with what we saw last year, how am I going to take a step back
01:07:27from that now? I may as well keep the train moving. I do think that they are going to be
01:07:31the team that is going to represent the Western conference. And like Brandon said, I don't think
01:07:35they're quite ready yet. At least depends on the matchup, right? If it's against Boston,
01:07:39I certainly don't think they're ready yet to win a title. If you have, I don't know,
01:07:44the Knicks on the other side, maybe, maybe it could happen. That's a, you know, it,
01:07:49it just becomes an entirely different matchup to, you know, handicap at that point in time,
01:07:53if, and when we get there, but yeah, I look at this, this isn't Homer ism. Uh, you know,
01:07:58if, if you listen to any NBA show right now, leading into the brand new year,
01:08:03the vast majority, unless you just had people on there that are looking to be contrarian
01:08:07are going to say to you, Celtics are going to either win the NBA championship
01:08:12or be in the NBA finals representing the East. And we're certainly here on a Celtics podcast,
01:08:18not going to say any differently when, uh, we are certainly feeling the same way.
01:08:22So, uh, that's where we're at new season folks. I will have real games to break down and talk
01:08:27about when we do this show again in a week, we'll have two under our belts, but it all begins
01:08:31Tuesday night, national TV Celtics and Knicks. I am so excited for this matchup. No disrespect to
01:08:37like if, and not that the NBA would do this, but if it were like Celtics pistons like that, all
01:08:43right. You know, like, no, I Celtics Knicks bring it like this. This is what I want to see because
01:08:48I do take the Knicks more seriously than I think a lot of people, they, they are, that's my team.
01:08:54As far as the team that I am kind of most worried about in, in the Eastern conference outside of,
01:09:00you know, obviously expectations for Boston, that that's the team that I look at and say,
01:09:05they've, they've got the mental and physical toughness to compete with Boston in a way that
01:09:09some of these other teams don't. So, uh, opening night should be a lot of fun,
01:09:13really excited to see how this new group meshes together sort of in the same way that a lot of
01:09:17people were wondering how the new look Celtics were going to look a year ago at this time.
01:09:21And, uh, here we are. So Brandon, hopefully we weren't, uh, I don't think we were hard on you.
01:09:25I think we just want to give you a platform to explain yourself. And, uh, that, that was fun
01:09:30for, uh, definitely for, for me, I'm sure for Ed as well. So thanks for hopping on with us.
01:09:35Let's do it again. Yeah. Thank you guys for having me. I hope that I was at least a top 47
01:09:40guest on your podcast. Happy to come on again and talk sometime. Without a doubt. I mean,
01:09:45we have to debate the 40 to 50 range where you fall, but yeah, no, obviously Brandon Anderson
01:09:51action network, get them on Twitter, by the way, at Wheaton Brando for Evan Valenti. I am Adam
01:09:55Kaufman basketball's coming folks. The real stuff, not this four in one preseason, but if Boston
01:10:01opens up to your four in one wins the first 80% of the games. Love that. We'll talk to you again
01:10:06after the first week of action.