Tánaiste and Minister of Defence Micheál Martin surprised at ‘herd-like’ response to Russian spy claims
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00:00Honestly, very serious allegations have been made against a member of the Oireachtas
00:03and that they're being used as an intelligence asset by the Russian government.
00:08That any Oireachtas member elected to represent the interests of the Irish people
00:12would allow themselves to be manipulated to work in the interests of a foreign government
00:16is scandalous, it's actually treacherous. Ireland is a member of the EU,
00:19we have a common travel area with Britain, we're the location for a high concentration
00:23of tech companies and we have, you know, underwater transatlantic cables off the coast
00:29above which two Russian ships parked recently.
00:32In 2021 we were hit with a cyber attack that cost 100 million euros
00:35that could top out at 650 million euros and we have a defence force
00:40which is weakening in numbers by the year.
00:42Yesterday the Siannid discussed the issue, members of the Siannid sniggered like giddy children,
00:47it looks like an episode of killing a scully to be honest.
00:51Tánaiste, is this a laughing matter in reality?
00:55You're the minister for the defence, you receive national security briefings,
00:59you know who the individual is, what are you going to do to ensure that this person is held to account?
01:05First of all I don't know who the individual is.
01:09Yes, just let me finish now because I'm going to make an important point here and statement here.
01:14When I was Taoiseach, when the dates concerning this alleged individual
01:18allegedly was, I received security briefings but I was never told
01:23and never briefed that there was a spy in the Oireachtas
01:27which to all intents and purposes is what the article in the Sunday Times asserts.
01:32I'm actually very surprised at the degree to which everybody heard like
01:37have just grabbed on the story and said this is it, who is the person?
01:42I'm absolutely amazed, there's a more fundamental question to be asked
01:46which I'm going to ask as Minister of Defence
01:48because as Minister of Defence I've never received a security briefing saying there's a spy
01:54in the Oireachtas. There may be, there may not be but I've never been briefed.
01:59There's an issue of accountability in terms of our intelligence services
02:03because if this is true then someone gave that information out
02:08and I don't think that's acceptable actually, I don't.
02:13And I think there's a broader issue that future governments and the Oireachtas at large
02:18need to be very clear-eyed about the need in a democracy
02:22that intelligence services have an accountability chain and are accountable.
02:28I would argue, and there is a national security strategy being developed,
02:31I would argue we lack that at the moment.
02:34I'm not comfortable with the situation pertaining to intelligence.
02:38It's very important that we have intelligence,
02:40it's very important in terms of the external dimension
02:42and our defence forces do a very good job actually
02:47and a very necessary job for the protection of the country.
02:51I have concerns about how all of this has emerged into the public arena,
02:56real concerns about it Deputy,
02:58and I'm somewhat surprised that politically it's all been in one direction and not in the other.
03:05Finally if I could, in conclusion,
03:08suggest because there has been some rumour circulating
03:12that members of the upper house have been involved with Russia
03:16and that there may or may not be a spy in our midst.
03:18I think it's important that in order to avoid any potential stain on this house
03:30that members would voluntarily make a statement that they are not the subject of any investigation
03:36or that they have never been in the clutches of Russia.
03:42Before I sit down I can declare that I'm not such a person that I have not.
03:48I hope everybody will use the opportunity to ensure that they declare that they're not a Russian spy.
03:55And like yesterday could I remind members in general that nobody has been mentioned
04:05and I will ask members,
04:06and I'm not being windy as accusing the papers today
04:10but I'm trying to protect all of us and the house.
04:13And I too, Senator Dooley, am like you, not one of those people either.
04:17So that's that's that's okay.
04:27Thanks very much indeed.
04:30Thank you Senator.
04:32Senator Byrne.
04:33Well I want to declare I'm not one of them either.
04:36This is chart number four.
04:38Can I also say that I am not a spy and I have no doubt that Senator Dooley isn't
04:42a Russian spy either himself and Kyle Crow are spending so much time keeping an eye on each other.
04:48The Russians, the Russians wouldn't be up to them.