Outlook's Apeksha Priyadarshini spoke to actor-turned-author Ashutosh Rana about his performance as Raavan in the play 'Humare Ram' at Kamani Auditorium, New Delhi on October 2, 2024.
"My attraction is towards Ram, but to know Ram, you need to see him through Raavan’s perspective. I firmly believe this philosophy. It was to put an end to Raavan that Lord Vishnu had to be incarnated as Ram. If he had to take the form of a human from a formless force, then it must have been for someone so worthy, whose existence cannot be balanced by anyone other than God himself."
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"My attraction is towards Ram, but to know Ram, you need to see him through Raavan’s perspective. I firmly believe this philosophy. It was to put an end to Raavan that Lord Vishnu had to be incarnated as Ram. If he had to take the form of a human from a formless force, then it must have been for someone so worthy, whose existence cannot be balanced by anyone other than God himself."
Follow us:
Website: https://www.outlookindia.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Outlookindia
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/outlookindia/
X: https://twitter.com/Outlookindia
Whatsapp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VaNrF3v0AgWLA6OnJH0R
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@OutlookMagazine
Dailymotion: https://www.dailymotion.com/outlookindia
#Raavan #Ramrajya #Ram #Raavan #Ramayana #AshutoshRana #Actor #Author
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NewsTranscript
00:00We stop our paths and look at them from the point of view of the enemy.
00:05But the enemy is the one who awakens the energy within us.
00:11The enemy is the one who takes us out of the limit and tries to take us towards the limitless.
00:19Therefore, the enemy is not worthy of praise, but worthy of salutation.
00:24So, if you salute your enemy, he will reward you.
00:28This is the importance of the point of view of the enemy.
00:30This is why I find this character of Ravar to be amazing.
00:38I try my best to finish Ashutosh Rana.
00:48I try to finish Ashutosh Rana.
00:51When Ashutosh Rana is finished, the remaining part will be that character.
00:56I never try to capture the body of the character.
00:59I try to capture the thought process of the character.
01:02I try to capture myself with the mentality of the character.
01:11Hello and welcome to Outlook Talks.
01:13My name is Apeksha Priyadarshini.
01:15Today, we are joined by one of the finest actors of the Hindi cinema industry,
01:20who is also an author, Mr. Ashutosh Rana.
01:22Thank you so much, sir, for joining us today.
01:24Thank you so much, Apeksha.
01:26Sir, today you are performing in the play, Humare Ram.
01:30We would like to talk a little about your character.
01:35This isn't the first time that you are performing Ravan on stage,
01:41as well as this character of Ravan.
01:43You have also voiced this character in an animated film.
01:46So, can you tell us a little bit about what is it that attracts you to Ravan?
01:52My attraction is towards Ravan.
01:54But if you want to know about Ravan,
01:58you should look at it from the perspective of Ravan.
02:01I have complete faith in this philosophy.
02:04And for Ravan, for his solution, for his end,
02:09we consider Lord Ram to be the incarnation of Lord Vishnu.
02:15So, if he takes birth in the community of the formless,
02:17in the community of the formless,
02:19then he will definitely be a worthy person
02:22who cannot be balanced by anyone other than God.
02:28So, my interest was in his divinity,
02:33in his wisdom, in his dedication, in his devotion,
02:41in his love for Lord Shiva.
02:45But even after this, what happened was that Ravan
02:52got the pride of his knowledge,
02:55but he did not get the knowledge of his pride.
02:59So, if we look at Ravan's journey,
03:03we will find that he went somewhere within himself.
03:05We have to teach you every day.
03:08Because I believe that when you control your desires,
03:13when you control your desires, then you become Ram.
03:18But when you start being controlled by your desires,
03:21then your same qualities or your same qualities
03:24take you somewhere in the direction of Ravan.
03:27So, there are Dashmukhs in our life,
03:29who were Dashmukhs of Ravan,
03:31and there are Dashraths in our life,
03:33who were the revered fathers of Lord Ram.
03:37So, this journey that Dashrath and Dashmukhs,
03:41Ram is a state between Dashrath and Dashmukh.
03:46When a person reaches Dashmukh through Dashrath
03:50and wins over that Dashmukh,
03:53then he somewhere or the other becomes a man
03:56and attains the knowledge of Narayan.
03:58So, our body is made up of ten senses,
04:02like Dashrath, and the soul inside us,
04:05which we call Ram or Brahm,
04:07and the Dashmukh in our life,
04:09which we call Pralobhan,
04:11which we call Vasana.
04:12When our Dashrath journey,
04:15through this Ram,
04:17when we win over Pralobhan,
04:20Vasana, and Akanksha,
04:23then the world,
04:25the Bhagwat or Narayan within us,
04:29even though we are a man,
04:30people die out of respect for us.
04:35So, this is how I see it.
04:37The character of Ravan,
04:39or the personality of Ravan,
04:41you can see how different it is.
04:47Because what does the enemy do?
04:49Ravan was the enemy of Ramchandraji.
04:52What do we do with the enemy?
04:56The one who obstructs our path,
04:58who blocks our path,
05:00we see him as an enemy.
05:03But he is the enemy
05:05who awakens the pure energy within us.
05:09He is the enemy
05:11who nourishes our ego
05:13and destroys our ego.
05:15That is, he makes us aware of our ego.
05:18He is the enemy
05:20who makes us feel insecure.
05:24He makes us feel insecure.
05:26He is the enemy
05:28who takes us out of the limit
05:31and tries to take us to the limit.
05:34Therefore, the enemy
05:36is not worthy of admiration,
05:38but is worthy of salutation.
05:40If you salute your enemy,
05:42he will reward you.
05:44So, the importance of the enemy,
05:46that is how I see it.
05:50That is why I find this character of Ravan amazing.
05:54You see, people worship Lord Ram
05:59and connect with him.
06:01And Ravan is one of those people
06:03who fought with him and connected with him forever.
06:05So, some people fight with each other
06:08and some people fight with each other
06:10and connect with each other forever.
06:13In this play,
06:15as an actor,
06:17can you tell us about your process
06:19and how you embody this character?
06:21See, when I play any character,
06:25I try my best
06:27to finish Ashutosh Rana.
06:31I try to finish Ashutosh Rana.
06:33When Ashutosh Rana is finished,
06:35then the remaining part will be that character.
06:38And I never catch the body of the character.
06:41I try to catch his thought process.
06:44I try to immerse myself in his mentality.
06:48I try my best
06:50to erase myself before doing anything.
06:53If you erase yourself,
06:55then you will see that something will emerge
06:58and it will be unique and enjoyable.
07:01So, my entire process is like that.
07:04Sir, you have written a book, Ramraj.
07:07And you have given different perspectives
07:11to see this.
07:13So, can you tell us about that book
07:16and how you have interpreted Ravan's character?
07:19Ramraj is our perspective on Ramayan.
07:23The entire journey of Paramatma Shri Ram,
07:26as a devotee, as a person,
07:29and as a human being,
07:31how do I see that entire journey?
07:33Because I firmly believe that
07:35Ram is Param Brahma Paramatma.
07:38Who is a great man?
07:40The one you feel you are great by meeting,
07:43you will call him a great man.
07:45But the one you feel you are small by meeting,
07:47that person will not come in the category of great.
07:49So, if Paramatma, Param Brahma,
07:51if any person is coming in contact with Paramatma Shri Ram,
07:55then there should definitely be a transformation in his life.
07:59And it should be such a transformation
08:01that it is possible that we are not able to understand
08:03those layers of it because we are ordinary people.
08:06But how did that entire environment
08:09happen in the presence of Paramatma Ram?
08:12So, Ramraj, which is ours,
08:14now it has come in English,
08:16in Tamil, in Telugu,
08:18it has been translated in Bengali as well.
08:21And it is there in Hindi as well.
08:23So, in that entire journey,
08:25Ram,
08:29Kaikeyi,
08:31if she has been exiled,
08:33then what happened?
08:35That Kaikeyi, who loved Ram with her soul,
08:41suddenly asked for exile for Ram,
08:44and asked for kingdom for her son Bharat.
08:49So, what was the reason?
08:51What was the reason
08:53that in the form of a mother,
08:57in the form of a wife,
08:59or in any other situation,
09:02she was always considered to be in pranam?
09:07What happened?
09:09What happened that Shurpanakha,
09:11for this reason,
09:13she offered her life,
09:16which can be done by any person.
09:21And because of that request,
09:23she had to cut off her nose and ears.
09:25So, is it that Pooja Valmiki ji
09:27wanted to say something else,
09:29and we understood it differently?
09:31Or if they say that
09:33in Ram's navel there was Amrit Kund,
09:35Amrit means that which does not let you die.
09:38And by drying that Amrit Kund,
09:40Paramatma Ram,
09:42somewhere or the other,
09:44if you worship Ravan,
09:46then which Amrit are you talking about?
09:48So, keeping all these things in mind,
09:51you will get the psychological side,
09:55the emotional side,
09:57the skills of management,
09:59and the fact that
10:01when Ram fought with Ravan,
10:05Ravan is the king of the most highly
10:09well-equipped army of that time.
10:14And who is countering that army?
10:19The uneducated army of monkeys
10:22along with Ram.
10:24So, if an uneducated army
10:27defeats a well-educated army
10:30and wins,
10:32then it means that
10:34the quality of leadership,
10:36how you lead yourself,
10:38what is the difference
10:40between a king and a hero,
10:42all these things,
10:44keeping all these points in mind,
10:46Ramraj has been written.
10:48And the best part is that
10:50he is the bestseller of Hindi.
10:53And he has also received
10:55the Sahitya Akademi Award.
10:57So, for us,
10:59it is a matter of great joy
11:01as a writer.
11:03What do you think,
11:05you have already told us about it,
11:07but if you tell us in a little more detail,
11:09that the characters of Ram and Ravan
11:13have a tendency to be understood
11:15in binaries.
11:17Do you think that these characters
11:19should be read only in binaries
11:21or can they be raised above it?
11:23And not just in performance,
11:25but also in the way
11:27these characters are understood
11:29in literary references.
11:31I believe that the utility of any story
11:33or its quality is only proven
11:35when it is able to
11:37elevate you.
11:39Any story is made to elevate you
11:41in the form of a person
11:43or in the form of a society.
11:45So, I personally believe that
11:47as much as we have to worship
11:49the feet of Lord Ram,
11:51we also have to worship
11:53his behavior.
11:55So, we hold his feet,
11:57but we are not able to
11:59understand his behavior.
12:01Whereas, the entire story
12:03that he narrates,
12:05while being a man,
12:07he indicates that
12:09you are also a man,
12:11you belong to the human race.
12:13So, these things come under
12:15your syllabus.
12:17And whether you have
12:19determination,
12:21cleanliness in your mind,
12:23you are clean,
12:25your vision is pure,
12:27you have the clarity of your
12:29goals in your life,
12:31then you will definitely
12:33elevate yourself,
12:35but you will also elevate
12:37the welfare of the society.
12:39So, I personally believe that
12:41these stories have a lot of importance.
12:43That this is our policy,
12:45this is our value.
12:47Now, let's say that
12:49he asked for a boon from his mother
12:51and she left him.
12:53So, what is this?
12:55That if we consider our father
12:57as Dashrath,
12:59if we give importance to our mother
13:01if we treat our brothers
13:03like Bharat, Lakshman, Shatrughan,
13:05if we stand with our friends
13:07like Ram and Sugriv,
13:09or like Sugriv
13:11stands with Ram,
13:13if we start behaving
13:15like this,
13:17then we will see that
13:19somewhere or the other,
13:21Ramrajya will be created in our life.
13:23So, I believe that these stories
13:25are not only to be read,
13:27but also to be counted.
13:29If we consider them,
13:31then definitely,
13:33somewhere or the other,
13:35welfare will come in our life.
13:37Otherwise, we will read them as stories.
13:39And if after reading the story,
13:41we don't get rid of our confusion,
13:43then we will put a question mark
13:45on the utility of the story.
13:47And people will think
13:49that it was just a story,
13:51an imagination,
13:53there was no truth in it.
13:55Whereas, all the facts of truth
13:57are present in it.
13:59That is why, for so many years,
14:01for so many yogas,
14:03a story of a particular character
14:05is going on in our lives.
14:07So, I personally believe
14:09that any story,
14:11especially when our avatars
14:13like Ramcharitmanas,
14:15or Ramayan,
14:17they are not only to be read,
14:19they are not only to be read,
14:21they are to be counted.
14:23If we read them,
14:25and if we take them into our lives,
14:27then I feel,
14:29we will go on the path of welfare.
14:31Like you said,
14:33about alleviation,
14:35in Ramayan,
14:37there are many versions.
14:39I think there are
14:41more than 300 versions.
14:43There are many versions
14:45where Ravan's character
14:47is considered as a hero.
14:49There are communities where
14:51Ravan is worshipped.
14:53So, according to you,
14:55what is the perspective
14:57from which Ramayan can be seen?
14:59That interests you.
15:01Look, I personally believe
15:03that Ravan will have
15:05the qualities of a hero.
15:07One is Nayak,
15:09and the other is Pratinayak.
15:11Now, what are Nayak
15:13and Pratinayak?
15:15Those who walk
15:17with the society.
15:19What do you call them?
15:21Nayak.
15:23Nayak is also there.
15:25And one is the one who
15:27walks ahead of the society.
15:29So, if you look at Ramayan,
15:31Ram and Ravan
15:33both are great devotees of Lord Shiva.
15:35Both are worshippers of Shakti.
15:37Both are great scholars.
15:39Both are warriors.
15:43But what happened after this?
15:45With equal qualities,
15:47one became a worshipper
15:49and the other
15:51became a critic.
15:53So, if we look at it,
15:55the whole perspective
15:57towards our life,
15:59Ram's journey from the throne
16:01is towards meditation.
16:03And Ravan's journey
16:05from meditation
16:07is towards the throne.
16:09If we look at it
16:11from that perspective,
16:13when a person sitting on the throne
16:15stands with the society
16:17on its pedestal,
16:19then the call given by it
16:21and the order given by it
16:23also sounds like a call.
16:29But the suggestions given
16:31sitting on the throne
16:33also sound like an order.
16:35So, I feel
16:37if we look at the whole process,
16:39one is
16:41the decentralization
16:43of power.
16:45And the other is
16:47decentralization of power.
16:49So, what did Lord Ram do?
16:51He decentralized
16:53power.
16:55If he goes from Chitrakoot
16:57and meets Nishad,
16:59then he makes
17:01Nishad capable.
17:03If he meets Shabri,
17:05then he makes Shabri capable.
17:07If he meets Sugriv,
17:09then Kishkindha wins over him
17:11but he makes Sugriv capable.
17:13When he wins over Lanka,
17:15even though he is the
17:17rightful winner,
17:19he establishes Vibhishan
17:21and makes him capable.
17:23On the other hand,
17:25Ravan also won.
17:27So, all the emperors
17:29he won over,
17:31he subjugated them.
17:33So, one
17:35believes in subjugation
17:37and Ram believes in
17:39subjugation.
17:41So, just because of that
17:43perspective,
17:45even though the results
17:47are of equal quality,
17:49even though the quality is heroic,
17:51the results are different.
17:53Let's talk
17:55about your
17:57experiences.
17:59You started
18:01your journey with NSD,
18:03you started with theatre
18:05and then you went to cinema.
18:07What is the difference
18:09between theatre
18:11and cinema?
18:13If you look at it
18:15as a performance,
18:17whether it is cinema,
18:19theatre, television
18:21or OTT,
18:23you have to present your art
18:25on all these.
18:27So, all these can be medium.
18:29What is the medium?
18:31To transport
18:33your art.
18:35Now,
18:37if we think that
18:39acting on film will be different
18:41and acting on stage will be different.
18:43So, you have to act on film
18:45with truth,
18:47then the audience will like it.
18:49You have to act on theatre
18:51with truth,
18:53then the audience will like it.
18:55So, if you look at it as an actor,
18:57you can believe
18:59that when you play
19:01for the truth of the moment,
19:03then for the truth of every moment,
19:05you have to be present
19:07with your five senses.
19:09Because if there is
19:11even one momentary error,
19:13then you break
19:15the sound of the whole act.
19:17So,
19:19in theatre,
19:21there is a very good thing
19:23that you are able to
19:25focus your five senses
19:27on one goal at a time.
19:29You are able to practice this.
19:31You don't have to
19:33just focus on yourself.
19:35It is not necessary
19:37that the error is yours.
19:39Your co-actor can also have an error.
19:41So,
19:43even if you have to cover up,
19:45you have to be
19:47alert,
19:49so that even though there is an error,
19:51the audience doesn't think
19:53that it is an error.
19:55You have to mix
19:57the two.
19:59You can think of it like this.
20:01One is that
20:03when you are a cash counter,
20:05and the other
20:07is that you get it in credit.
20:09So, the pleasure
20:11of being a cash counter is that
20:13you just sold sweets
20:15and you got the money
20:17in your pocket.
20:19And the other is that when we booked,
20:21the money went into the air
20:23and you got the box of sweets.
20:25So, the pleasure
20:27of being a cash counter is that
20:29whatever you did,
20:31you will immediately get
20:33the reward for it,
20:35whether it is in the form of appreciation
20:37or appreciation.
20:39Whatever it is,
20:41whatever you did immediately,
20:43you will immediately get the reward for it.
20:45So, the pleasure of
20:47getting the reward immediately
20:49is somewhere on the stage.
20:51And since I passed out
20:53from the drama, I will assume
20:55that the stage
20:57is a training ground.
21:01And if it is a cinema or anything else,
21:03it is a place of performance.
21:05Is it a place of performance?
21:07So, what is the importance
21:09of training when you get
21:11the opportunity to perform?
21:13And what is the utility of performance
21:15when you get the training behind it?
21:17The whole journey of training.
21:19So, if you see
21:21wrestling,
21:23they complement each other.
21:25And you can assume that
21:27you can call it a theater
21:29where the wrestler
21:31is ready
21:33to perform himself
21:35in the Olympics.
21:37So,
21:39since our background
21:41is the same,
21:43I am a good person.
21:45What happens in the theater,
21:47on the stage,
21:49not only with your
21:51co-actors,
21:53but also with the audience
21:55you have to
21:57match your breathing pattern.
21:59Along with their breathing speed,
22:01you have to establish
22:03a coordination of your own breathing speed.
22:05And when you are able to establish
22:07that coordination,
22:09when you are able to mix the two,
22:11then you are safe from the situation of breakdown.
22:13Because what is a breakdown?
22:15It is when the two break up.
22:17What is the importance of art?
22:19If there are seven notes in a symphony,
22:21there is a different sound
22:23of the conga, the bhang,
22:25the guitar,
22:27the harmonium,
22:29the pipri.
22:31They all make different sounds.
22:33Their sounds are different.
22:35But if their notes
22:37are not the same,
22:39and if they are not played in the same note,
22:41if there is no symphony,
22:43then you will see
22:45why your instrument is not there.
22:47If the whole music
22:49is affected by one
22:51note,
22:53then it spoils the whole situation.
22:55So somewhere or the other,
22:57you can take it as a juggler
22:59that with the co-actors,
23:01there is a coordination of the actors,
23:03but also with the audience
23:05sitting here.
23:07The character that is being
23:09performed by you,
23:11you have a coordination with that too.
23:13The process of mixing the taal from the taal,
23:15the process of mixing the sur from the sur,
23:19you have a lot of opportunities
23:21in this.
23:23And it keeps you awake
23:25all the time.
23:27In cinema, you have
23:29the freedom that
23:31there is a 15-minute shot,
23:33you have given it,
23:35after that you will get a me-time.
23:37But in theatre,
23:39if there is a play of 3.5 hours,
23:41you don't have any me-time.
23:45The time is
23:473.5 hours,
23:49till that play of yours is going on,
23:51till then you have to give
23:53me-time,
23:55the whole time.
23:59Sir, let's talk about this particular play.
24:03The reception
24:05and
24:07the appreciation
24:09that your character has received,
24:11and if you tell us a little bit
24:13about the audience,
24:15like you talked about the immediate response,
24:17so after the performance,
24:19how was the immediate response for your character?
24:21And do you feel
24:23that somewhere,
24:25like you said,
24:27you perform Ravan to understand
24:29the character of Ram better,
24:31so do you feel that if you
24:33had performed Ram's character in this play,
24:35would it have been better
24:37to understand Ram's role,
24:39Ram's character,
24:41in Ramayan,
24:43or would it have been better from Ravan's perspective?
24:45Because I wrote Ramraaj,
24:49so one thing is that
24:51you have to write and
24:53also have to express.
24:55So because I wrote Ramraaj,
24:57and I wrote it
24:59with my whole heart
25:01and soul,
25:03so now
25:05who did I have to play?
25:07So I had to play Ravan,
25:09and because it was a childhood play,
25:11so we decided to
25:13play him first,
25:15and then definitely
25:17there are some characters,
25:19like Krishna,
25:21I will perform Krishna on stage very soon,
25:23there is a character of Chandakya,
25:25there is a character of Swami Vivekananda,
25:27there are some characters
25:29that I have to play,
25:31and the joy is that
25:33in such a short time,
25:35within 6 months,
25:37I don't know when
25:39your write-up will come,
25:41but on 12th October,
25:43we will have our 100th show.
25:45And all of these are ticketed shows.
25:47We did Delhi,
25:49Mumbai, Jaipur,
25:51Ahmedabad, Hyderabad,
25:53Pune,
25:55Ujjain, so if you see,
25:57with the speed
25:59of this,
26:01I have not done anything
26:03other than this play for 6 months,
26:05and it is our 100th show,
26:07and I feel that in India,
26:09with the speed of any play,
26:11so many shows,
26:13so this is a very big record in itself,
26:15and this was possible only then,
26:17because the production is very big,
26:19very expensive,
26:21because if you are showing Ram's story
26:23as Ayodhya,
26:25if you are showing Ravan's Lanka,
26:27then with weakness,
26:29then you will have to present
26:31its divinity and greatness.
26:33So production is expensive,
26:35its tickets are very expensive,
26:37but all the ticketed shows
26:39have been house-packed,
26:41and that was the reason
26:43that the audience gave so much love,
26:45so much respect,
26:47that people come 4-5 times
26:49to watch,
26:51if they see a husband,
26:53then he brings his wife next time,
26:55if they see a brother,
26:57if they see a sister,
26:59then he encourages her
27:01to go and see,
27:03so many people,
27:05and in today's time,
27:07especially when we have
27:09a 30-35 second reel,
27:11our concentration span,
27:13in that 3.25 hours,
27:15without break,
27:17people are sitting in the play,
27:19and after the play is over,
27:21even after the curtain call,
27:23they are not ready to leave,
27:25so you can imagine
27:27how much love
27:29our Ram must have received.
27:31So it is the grace of
27:33Gurudev Bhagwan,
27:35the grace of the audience,
27:37that they are giving so much
27:39respect,
27:41and it was possible because of them,
27:43that in 6 months,
27:45Dussehra is on 12th October,
27:47and we are going to have our 100th show.
27:49We also did it in South India
27:51on 29th October,
27:53it was our first show in South India,
27:55in Hyderabad,
27:57we had an auditorium
27:59of 2100 capacity,
28:01and you will believe,
28:03that we got 105%
28:05house pack response
28:07in South India.
28:09So,
28:11when we are going to any city,
28:13we are seeing that
28:15the audience,
28:17with a lot of faith,
28:19with a lot of self-confidence,
28:21with a lot of love,
28:23they are accepting our show,
28:25they are appreciating it,
28:27they are praising it,
28:29and they are inspiring us.
28:33You have played
28:35very iconic characters
28:37in films like Sangharsh or Dushman,
28:39where the characters
28:41that you have played
28:43have remained in people's minds,
28:45and if you tell us a little
28:47about it,
28:49do you feel that
28:51the antagonist or the villain
28:53is more challenging
28:55than the hero?
28:57Yes, it is difficult,
28:59the negative characters,
29:01because they are negative for the world,
29:03and if the actor
29:05is playing a negative role,
29:07then you have two options,
29:09you can also think negatively,
29:11but it becomes challenging
29:13when the character
29:15is negative for the world,
29:17but the character
29:19is considering himself as a hero,
29:21and is living his life
29:23from a very positive point of view,
29:25so playing negativity
29:27with a positive attitude
29:29or in a positive light,
29:31without losing
29:33his negativity,
29:35is quite a difficult job.