Janet Christie chats with Ian Rankin about new Rebus book, Midnight and Blue
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00:00This is Janet Christie, lifestyle journalist, Scotsman,
00:04who is writing around Karen Rebus' book called Hub,
00:07which is obviously a buy, in Edinburgh.
00:10We're here to talk about the latest Rebus book,
00:13one of the must-read books of the year.
00:17Very creaky seats.
00:19Again, obviously, very creaky pews.
00:23Very creaky pews.
00:24Aside, what can you tell us about your book?
00:28Well, I never didn't write it.
00:32Well, I thought the previous book ended well.
00:35I thought it would make a really good ending to the series.
00:38You've got Rebus on trial.
00:39He's an adult.
00:40His sentence is about to be pronounced.
00:42I thought that's a really good ending to a series.
00:44Nice open ending.
00:45The right can buy thoughts.
00:47Yeah.
00:48But fans disagreed.
00:50They said, we need to know what happened.
00:51We need to know, was he found guilty?
00:53Was he found innocent?
00:54Well, okay.
00:55And so I thought, well, what do you reckon?
00:57Well, it stands to reason he'd be found guilty,
00:59which means he would go to jail.
01:02And he would go to Saughton Prison, HMP Edinburgh,
01:07where he'd be surrounded by people he couldn't decide,
01:10as a detector, or people he didn't,
01:13because he was a tie-back.
01:15I'm one of them.
01:17So I just thought, oh, it's an accident.
01:19There's drama there from the get-go.
01:20There's tension and drama and risk.
01:22And then I thought, what happens if I'm no longer in jail
01:24and it's an impossible money?
01:26I'll let it settle the mystery.
01:28There's a branch of crime fiction called the locked room mystery.
01:32If I don't return the people, then I'll let it settle the mystery.
01:35So you open the cell in the morning.
01:36Prisoner's dead.
01:37No wounded weapon.
01:38Who did it?
01:39Me.
01:40Who are you going to ask to investigate?
01:41Well, the readers.
01:43So I just thought, that's great.
01:45And then I thought, I need to know about Saughton jail.
01:48I love it.
01:49And I called in a few favours, and I gave them a tour.
01:52And I'm actually about to go back.
01:55I'm going to talk to the prisoners as a favour to the librarians.
01:59Right.
02:00Then it's like being chased.
02:01Yeah.
02:02Yeah.
02:03It's a real life.
02:04A totally fictitious librarian in my book.
02:08And some of the stuff that happens in the prison in my book,
02:11called it, would not happen in real life or couldn't happen in real life.
02:15But the details, I think, are fairly correct.
02:17My publisher, when I sent him the manuscript, said,
02:20you never really describe what the prisoners are wearing.
02:22And I couldn't remember.
02:24Although I'd been there two years in jail, I just couldn't remember.
02:26So I said, I'll be calling that favour again.
02:28Emailed the governor.
02:29The governor told me what they wear.
02:31So I've got all those details correct.
02:33They speak quite a few colours.
02:35Colour coded.
02:36Colour coded.
02:37Yeah.
02:38So that's the reason I went in.
02:39On their own call, they don't call them waiters.
02:41They call them malls.
02:42One of the things, a little Arlington hungs in there.
02:45On the holiday, they can wear whatever they like.
02:47But as soon as they go out of sight to a different part of the prison
02:50or out of the prison, they're colour coded.
02:52So the authorities know what kind of prison they're dealing with.
02:55Whether it's a lifeguard, a sex offender.
03:00So I learned that.
03:02Do you have to dress differently to go in?
03:04No.
03:05All that happens is you go through a scanner like at an airport
03:09and your phone is taken away and your phone is put in a locker
03:12and you can't go by phones around in.
03:15And again, I checked for the last one.
03:18What if it is coming here?
03:20And they went, well, they probably would be okay bringing that phone in.
03:24So you'd have to double check.
03:26I'm coming out.
03:27It's the same phone.
03:28So that's the one thing.
03:30I shouldn't tell you this, but what the hell.
03:32The one thing that's unrealistic.
03:34I said to the doctor, look, I've got an ex-cop
03:36and he's going to be in this jail
03:38and he'll be around three o'clock.
03:40Put it away.
03:41He went, we'll probably send him to Inverness.
03:44We probably wouldn't have nearly as many enemies and non-facings.
03:49And I went, oh, no, I don't want to be sent to Inverness or Perth.
03:53I want to be sent to Edinburgh.
03:55So that's the one thing that's possibly unrealistic.
03:58But being put away in a secure section of the jail is what would happen.
04:03And then, of course, I finessed it
04:04so that Rebus is allowed out into the general population.
04:07Probably he wouldn't be, probably in real life.
04:09He'd be kept in isolation.
04:11I sat in my way when he got out of the bus.
04:13Yeah, yeah.
04:14And the one who joined us wondered that Christy is in England.
04:21So you started the Rebus stumbles in this, you know,
04:25but I used to write about Rebus 25 books on.
04:28You mean that next week?
04:29I know, Jodie, obviously.
04:31I mean, I guess because he's just a very useful means of investigating the world.
04:37He stands in for me.
04:38He questions the world on my behalf.
04:41He's an intriguing character.
04:43He's charismatic.
04:44I still don't quite know what makes him tick.
04:47I'm not quite up to the centre of him, the core of him.
04:51And he keeps changing.
04:52So he's an interesting character to write about because he keeps changing.
04:55So, for example, a few books ago, I gave him COPD.
04:59So then when I went into the prison, I said, so what would happen?
05:03And he said, well, we've got NHS nurses here working all the week,
05:07and he would get his inhaler and everything else.
05:10And I said, but you've got to be careful, of course, with the inhalers,
05:13the puffers, because prisoners like to use them for bones.
05:17So that's in the book.
05:19That detail is in the book as well.
05:22So, yeah, so every time I think I'm done with him,
05:26I have something else I think, well, what have I done?
05:28I've put him in this situation.
05:29I learn about him by putting him in that situation.
05:32Yeah.
05:33And what did you learn about Beavis in prison?
05:36That he's a really good detective.
05:39And he's strong.
05:41If you give him something to do, he'll do it.
05:43That he's not as tough as he used to be.
05:46I mean, he's physically not this able to, he doesn't win fights anymore.
05:50I mean, he gets in trouble a couple of times in this book physically,
05:54and there's nothing he can do about it.
05:58He's a 70-year-old man with COPD.
06:00He is.
06:01I've learned that he quite likes prison life.
06:04You know the small cell thing?
06:06He's not sharing a cell.
06:07That's another thing that might be slightly unrealistic.
06:09He does like to share a cell.
06:11But that's fine.
06:14That's, again, the existence he has at home as well.
06:16One room, he has some ones.
06:18As long as he's got a few books to read.
06:20And he can listen to a wee bit of music.
06:22Well, he's quite out and about.
06:24It's quite interesting how he adapts so well.
06:27But then that is, you know, he's always worked.
06:30Well, he's always been in institutions.
06:32Yeah.
06:33I mean, he was in the army for a while,
06:34which is an institution where you follow orders.
06:36Then he was in the police for a long time, where you're supposed to follow orders.
06:39He didn't always do it.
06:40And now he's in a prison where everything is regulated.
06:43And Sally and Peter get very used to that.
06:47In fact, they find it really hard to come out and readjust to the outside world.
06:52And he's used to cots.
06:53Yeah.
06:54Yeah.
06:55He's got stories to me.
06:56He talks to the guards because they are all interested in him having been a cot.
07:00And he talks to the prisoners, you know, he talks to them.
07:04He doesn't always ask them what he does.
07:08Because that could lead to trouble.
07:09Yeah.
07:10He kind of does.
07:11Did you wish you could have been in prison before?
07:14Never came up.
07:15No.
07:16There was never an opportunity for it to happen.
07:19He's always wriggled out of things.
07:22And also, I just thought, it's a bit challenging.
07:25It's such an enclosed environment, such a claustrophobic environment.
07:28Can you do a whole dose set in prison?
07:31And at first, it was going to be a whole dose set in prison.
07:33And then I thought, well, if there's a murder in the prison,
07:36the police will come in from the outside to investigate.
07:38So now we're with them.
07:39As they go back out.
07:41And then another story came up in my head to, you know, the online world.
07:47And I just thought, well, okay,
07:49so it's something for my detectives to do on the outside.
07:52Yes.
07:53And there's that kind of interaction because, you know,
07:55they need information from Revis or he needs information from the police.
07:58So, yeah, whether I could have said the whole book in jail,
08:04I'm not absolutely sure.
08:06Because all you can't do, right, you're just in four walls.
08:09Yeah.
08:10There's a lot of stuff you can't do.
08:12And it's very hard for Revis to get information.
08:14Yeah.
08:15From my phones or whatever.
08:16All the phones.
08:17It's hard.
08:18So you've got the outside part of the wall.
08:20And my last question for you, just saying, will you write next?
08:24Oh, sure.
08:25We'll write next.
08:26I don't know.
08:27I'm absolutely not.
08:28I don't know.
08:29I think we've had the TV series.
08:30Yeah, last time.
08:31Yeah.
08:32I know.
08:33Well, I had the TV series.
08:34And I know we're running around and trying to see if we can get the money
08:37for season two.
08:38And what?
08:39The play.
08:40I was heavily involved in households for that.
08:43And I went to every night of it.
08:45So I was there five nights in the truck.
08:48And now it's off to Aberdeen.
08:50I can relax a little bit.
08:51This book is about to come out.
08:53So I'll be on the promotion trail of that, touring the UK.
08:57It's been a busy year.
08:59That's much more than I would normally do.
09:01So next year is mostly a year of not writing.
09:04My wife said next year is another travel year.
09:07Still been travelling.
09:09But I've got a couple of things I might do.
09:11They're not big things.
09:12They're not big new projects.
09:14I'm trying to hold off on the big ones for a bit.
09:16Okay.
09:17This is the last book of a deal I had.
09:20And my wife said don't sign another contract.
09:23Did she?
09:24Will it be what?
09:25Cubibus?
09:26I don't know.
09:29So it's not the last one?
09:31Well, I think it's quite a good ending.
09:33Yeah, it is.
09:34I think if that was the end of the series,
09:35I'd be quite happy with that as an ending.
09:37I don't know.
09:38I can't off the top of my head.
09:39I don't know.
09:40I don't know what to do with them.
09:42Maybe in six months' time another great idea will come to me
09:45and I'll just have to write the book.
09:47Okay.
09:48He'll tell me.
09:49He'll tell me.
09:50Okay.
09:51He's got more stories like this.
09:52He will, won't he?
09:53And we'll see if it's the end.
09:54I had to ask you that question.
09:55I thought it was a good deal.
09:57Okay.
09:58If you want to read more of my writing,
10:00it's at www.scholastreet.com.
10:03And this interview will be on there and also inside the magazine.
10:08Okay.
10:09Thanks.
10:10Bye-bye.
10:11Bye-bye.