Variety returns in-person for its annual Entertainment & Technology Summit, presented by City National Bank. This one-day event will explore advancing technology’s impact on TV, film, gaming, music, digital media and consumer brands.
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00:00So let me introduce you to my esteemed panelists right now.
00:04First off, directly to my left, the president of Blumhouse,
00:08Abhijay Prakash.
00:09Next up, the head of original programming at MAC,
00:16Sarah Aubrey.
00:20She is the president of scripted at NBC Universal Entertainment,
00:23Lisa Katz.
00:24He is the EVP of original programming at AMC Networks
00:31and AMC Studios, Ben Davis.
00:35The other AMC.
00:37Every panel will have an AMC today somehow, somewhere.
00:40That's just what we do.
00:41And finally, the chief content officer
00:43of Pinterest, Malik Dukard.
00:49Welcome, welcome.
00:50Well, also, like I was telling them backstage,
00:52it is obviously a challenging time in this industry.
00:55And we're going to talk about that.
00:57But there's also some real bright spots, too.
01:00And I definitely want to focus on that, because I think
01:02everyone on stage here also has some real wins recently
01:05and some real fun things to talk about, too.
01:08So the second that anyone says survive till 25,
01:12they are off this panel.
01:14That is my rule.
01:15I take a hook.
01:17But other than that, we could talk a little bit
01:19about what's going on.
01:20But first, I wanted to start off with maybe one thing
01:25that all of you are really excited about and a big win
01:28that you've recently experienced.
01:29Let's start off things on a real positive note.
01:33And I know you all have stories to tell.
01:35So, Abhijay, I'm going to start with you.
01:37I know, you took the seat right next to me.
01:39I knew I shouldn't have sat here.
01:41That is on you.
01:41It was a mistake, yeah.
01:43But, Abhijay, obviously, we were talking backstage.
01:46For example, you're doing a fun thing, a branded thing,
01:48coming up.
01:49We were talking about events in the previous panel.
01:51But Blumhouse is doing something at the Stanley Hotel.
01:55But that's just one of many things that you're up to.
01:57We are in our, it's like Christmas for Blumhouse
02:00right now.
02:01We're in the spooky season.
02:02October's around the corner.
02:03And so between now and the end of the year,
02:06we have a lot of stuff.
02:07And it's kind of an expression of how
02:10we try to bring scary into every dimension.
02:12So we have a theatrical movie in release, a couple
02:14of streaming movies.
02:16We have one of the biggest unscripted shows in the world
02:19with the worst ever franchise.
02:20And then, yes, getting out of film and TV,
02:23we have a game coming and a live event
02:25that we're doing with our friends
02:26at Peacock at the Stanley Hotel, where we've got a partnership
02:28to do some exhibitions and live events.
02:32I was going to say, it's your scary time of the year.
02:34It's like the Super Bowl for us.
02:36Yeah, exactly.
02:37And it's the country's scariest time of the year right now.
02:39So it's perfect timing.
02:41Yeah, likewise.
02:43Sarah, Penguin, pretty, pretty good.
02:48Things are kicked off pretty well for you.
02:51Yeah, we're thrilled.
02:54The show has been a really long time in the making.
02:56It was one of the first conversations
02:58I had when HBO Max was called the DTC.
03:02That's how long ago I started talking
03:04to Matt Reeves and Dylan Clark about doing a show together
03:07in the universe of his Batman.
03:11And slowly, over several iterations,
03:13we got to the Penguin.
03:14So this one has been a long time in the making.
03:18And so it's thrilling to see it connect in such a big way
03:21with audiences and reviewers.
03:23Yeah, no, absolutely.
03:25Lisa, what's a recent big win for you?
03:27You're not going to pick for me?
03:30No.
03:31You have so many, Lisa.
03:32So many to choose from.
03:35We just launched Fight Night, which
03:36was the biggest drama ever, most watched on Peacock.
03:41Kevin Hart, of course.
03:43And with Samuel L. Jackson, Taraji Henson, Don Cheadle.
03:49So star-studded.
03:51You couldn't have gotten a better cast?
03:52That's insane.
03:55It's a strong list.
03:56But I'm really proud of it also because it's
03:59an original series.
04:00And it's something that feels unique and different.
04:04And also, it's something that's really a love letter to Atlanta
04:07and talking about the rise of black culture
04:09and something very personal to the creator.
04:11So I'm really proud that that's also resonated with audiences.
04:15And then also, because I'm going to do another one,
04:18very excited that we have so many
04:19renewals and second seasons.
04:21Peacock's still so young.
04:23And we have a lot of shows coming back
04:26in poker, face-twisted metal, TED, based on true stories.
04:30So I'm really excited that things are starting
04:32to connect and get traction.
04:34And of course, we're entering fall TV season
04:37at the traditional network.
04:39This week.
04:39Yes, indeed.
04:41We'll talk more about that in a bit.
04:43Ben, obviously, talking about franchises and the Anne Rice
04:48franchise has been tremendous for you guys.
04:50Yeah, I'll start off with the Anne Rice and Motor
04:53Universe, which was a library we acquired a number of years ago.
05:00And we had franchise aspirations for that connected universe.
05:04And the first call we made was to the legendary producer,
05:08Mark Johnson, who we have a deal with,
05:10who was a bit of an unexpected choice
05:12to be paired with that material.
05:14But Mark has amazing taste.
05:16And we very quickly went to our well of talent
05:20and leaned on our talent relationships
05:22and brought in Rollin Jones and Estes Falding
05:25to build out that franchise.
05:28And what resulted is two very successful seasons
05:31of two franchises, Interview with the Vampire
05:35and Mayfair Witches.
05:36And we're about two weeks away from getting
05:38ready to go into production on a third series in the Anne Rice
05:42universe called Tala Mosca that John Lee Hancock is writing
05:46and directing.
05:47Mark Lafferty is co-show running.
05:49And so we're really excited to have a connected universe
05:53in three shows out of that franchise.
05:58Excellent.
05:58And Malik, obviously, when you hear
06:00about the successes of some of the entertainment brands,
06:03you, of course, work with a lot of these brands.
06:06And how does that impact you?
06:07And what have been some of the successes
06:09you've found over Pinterest?
06:10Sure, thank you.
06:11Well, first, I want to say thank you for having me on the panel.
06:15And it's great to be with these true visionaries.
06:19And we appreciate being invited.
06:22I would say, obviously, as a platform,
06:25we're a little bit different.
06:27And one of the things that I'm particularly excited about
06:31is predictions and trends.
06:34We have 522 million users who come to the platform globally.
06:41And that really gives us a little bit of an insight
06:44into what's happening now and, importantly,
06:48what's going to be happening in the future.
06:50Because when people come to Pinterest,
06:52they save content, as an example.
06:54And when you think about the things
06:56that you save in life that you want to come back later,
07:00those are indicators on what society, what culture,
07:06what Zeitgeist will be doing in the next six or nine months.
07:09So we have a report that we put out,
07:13and we have one coming out in the next few weeks,
07:16actually, in early December, called Pinterest Predicts.
07:19And Pinterest Predicts is actually
07:21a not-yet-trending report that peers into the future,
07:26looking at this data in aggregate.
07:30And for the past few years, we've
07:31had a hit rate, a correct rate, of about 80%,
07:37predicting trends like Eclectic Grandpa and Bose Stacking
07:43and Western Gothic.
07:45And these are all great names for things that actually
07:48turned into real life.
07:50So I'm excited about that, and then also
07:52how that connects with the day-to-day trends.
07:57We've got a tool called trends.pinterest.com
08:00that also aligns with a calendar of moments and trends
08:04that uses this data to help brands and people
08:09in the media community to really see what's happening now
08:14and peer into the future.
08:16So I'm excited about that.
08:18That's really interesting.
08:19So you can tell us, for example, why
08:21my kids like Skibbity Toilet, what that is?
08:24Explain it to me.
08:25Maybe.
08:25You have a crystal ball.
08:27Why have we been all operating on guessing when you actually
08:29know it's going to be popular?
08:30We want the report.
08:31We were all eyebrows for shooting up.
08:33So we're putting ourselves on the list, please.
08:35Yeah, absolutely.
08:37It's coming out soon.
08:38And again, for the current reports,
08:41trends.pinterest.com is a really good tool.
08:46But look out for Pinterest Predicts as well.
08:49Is there anything in particular you
08:50can hint at in terms of topics or themes or genres
08:54that people are really interested in?
08:56I wish.
08:57And not that I know, but we're crunching through it now.
09:01Well, I'm curious for the rest of you.
09:03I mean, what are you finding right now in terms of maybe
09:06where interest is heading?
09:08Is there any sort of specific topic or genre
09:12that people are kind of gravitating
09:13to as we see what's been working recently in the media?
09:19I don't know.
09:20I think it's so hard to kind of, I mean,
09:23I'm interested in that as just a general consumer.
09:27But as you know very well, the lead time in our jobs
09:31to get something made makes it a little ridiculous
09:36to try and chase anything because we're
09:38going to be real late.
09:39Like whatever is interesting right now,
09:41culture will have moved on times five
09:44by the time a show comes out.
09:45And so I do think we look at bigger trends.
09:49And one thing that we're focusing on
09:51is just trying to get back to delivering to an audience
09:56a longer batch of episodes.
09:58So instead of it being eight to 10,
10:00right now we have a medical show with John Wells
10:02that's going to be 15 episodes.
10:05And bringing that show back on an annual basis
10:08because I think that's really missing right now.
10:11From a lot of platforms, ours is no exception
10:15because I think we got into this eight episodes,
10:18really big shows that take two years to turn around.
10:21And I think not only is it hard for us
10:23to get the audiences back, but audiences too
10:25just kind of forget and are less compelled
10:28when there's that big of a break in storytelling.
10:30So I don't think that's a trend necessarily,
10:33but a hole that we've identified
10:35that we're going to try and fill.
10:36Yeah, and it is something that we're seeing.
10:39Obviously with the John Wells, Netflix has picked up
10:42a couple of long form shows as well.
10:44Of course, Lisa Dick Wolf is always gonna Dick Wolf.
10:48So that's never gone out of style,
10:50but we see the pendulum swing back and forth
10:53all the time in this business.
10:55And do you find that everyone sort of sat down
10:57and realized, oh, wait a second,
10:58people still do like long form shows.
11:01They want a schedule,
11:03they want a show to come back every year.
11:05And there's an audience also for these,
11:08they don't have to all be $20 million in episode shows.
11:12And I know that's a big part of the Wells show too
11:14is this is a guy who knew how to do it on ER
11:17and he's doing it again
11:18and knows how to produce a show on budget.
11:20That's a fantastic show.
11:23Yeah, I think that's exactly it.
11:24And I also think that it's not that
11:27there's a different audience for that show.
11:30People just want different kinds of things
11:33and when they're in a different kind of mood.
11:35And so I think it's really addressing that,
11:38that you don't have the Game of Thrones
11:40or House of the Dragon audience or Penguin audience
11:43doesn't not watch a procedural.
11:46Everyone watches in a very varied way.
11:49So I think we're just trying to make sure
11:51that we provide that variety to keep them on the platform.
11:56I would also add, I think people want more episodes
12:00when people binge things.
12:02They're often things from the past
12:03where they want hundreds and hundreds.
12:05You're never gonna get to that
12:06if you do these eight and 10 episodes at a time.
12:08And I think to Sarah's point,
12:11having a variety of things,
12:12a good show is a good show.
12:14And if you have different versions of things
12:17it can program for different audiences.
12:18But the trend I would say,
12:19and it's easier to do on broadcast
12:22because the turnaround time is not quite as long,
12:25is people want to laugh.
12:27People want to enjoy themselves.
12:29The world is hard.
12:30And if you can give them a break,
12:31whether that be we just did a medical show,
12:33Brilliant Minds, that feels very aspirational.
12:36And we're launching two new comedies this fall.
12:38I feel like people are craving that
12:40and to be able to give that to them is a great opportunity.
12:44Yeah, and we're starting to see a move back
12:45to even some of the basic cable networks
12:49dabbling back in, doing more original programming.
12:52And again, those kind of blue sky shows
12:54that were really successful in the 2010s.
12:57Are you starting to also see more of that
13:00and more opportunity to kind of go back
13:01to those blue sky-ish shows
13:05that maybe have been missing the past couple of years?
13:08Definitely.
13:09And I think people just want to spend time with characters
13:12and they want, you're bringing these people
13:14into your homes.
13:15I feel like some of the things that were so popular
13:16about television and seem to have been less important
13:20seem to be more important again.
13:23Well, Abigail, we joke that this is sort of your sweet spot
13:25this time of year, the spooky season,
13:27but Blumhouse has been really expanding beyond that too.
13:31And talk a little bit about taking the brand beyond
13:34just the sort of what the company's mostly been known for.
13:37Yeah, we, I mean, it may sound grandiose,
13:39but it is what we're aiming for.
13:40What Disney is to family entertainment,
13:42Blumhouse aspires to be for everything scary.
13:44And we know that just from knowing our audience
13:48and doing some research that they,
13:50that's what they look to us for.
13:51And obviously it's been established in a big way in movies
13:54and we've combined forces with James Wan and Atomic Monster
13:57to go even further, but there's scripted shows,
13:59unscripted shows, like I mentioned,
14:01the Worst Ever franchise,
14:03and we're entering the game space as well in live events.
14:05So basically every place, our test is any place
14:08that consumers are engaging with scary stories,
14:11we have to figure out a way to be there.
14:12And that's why we have every dimension
14:16of being in that business.
14:18Obviously how we're there is governed by the business model.
14:20And so the way that the industry is changing
14:22and what we're talking about here on this panel
14:24and the rest of the day is super relevant
14:26because that tailors how we navigate the waters.
14:29But it starts with that,
14:31the brand and people's engagement with scary stories.
14:33So when you ask about genres, I hope it's scary.
14:35It's mostly been pretty resilient as a genre.
14:39Adam Aaron was on here earlier.
14:40Horror is one of the few genres that's actually up
14:43year over year in the box office.
14:45And so that's a nice sign for us
14:47that people enjoy that format.
14:50And you can be bearish about some of the industry trends,
14:53but I think all of us would be bullish on stories.
14:56And for us, being bullish on scary stories
14:58is something to feel confident about.
15:00And IP is, of course, still important, Ben.
15:04And that's something that's been very important
15:06in sort of building these universes
15:08that you guys have at AMC now for several years.
15:10So what is your relationship now with IP
15:13and what are you looking for?
15:16Well, I think we've done a pretty terrific job
15:19in terms of continuing to build out
15:21the Walking Dead universe.
15:23Obviously, we had the Mothership show end,
15:28which was one of the biggest shows in basic cable history.
15:32And we did a really smart,
15:35we approached both Daryl Dixon and Dead City
15:39in a very thoughtful way where we needed those shows
15:42to justify their existence.
15:44We needed those shows to break new ground,
15:47push the franchise in an exciting, fresh, new direction.
15:51And we've been able to, again,
15:57make sure that those shows feel immersive,
16:01character-driven, and offer something really fresh
16:03and new to the audience.
16:06And again, I talked about the Immortal universe
16:08with Interview with the Vampire
16:10and Mayfair Witches and Tala Mosca.
16:13Each of those franchises or shows
16:16in that connected universe offer something very different
16:19for that fan base.
16:20So Tala Mosca is an espionage show
16:24with supernatural aspects to it.
16:25Mayfair Witches is a really fun,
16:29character-driven, layered, supernatural show
16:31that features really dynamic, layered characters
16:35at the center of it.
16:36In Interview with the Vampire,
16:38we just concluded season two of that show,
16:41and it's just such an immersive, character-driven show.
16:45So we're really proud of everything that we've done
16:48with both those franchises.
16:50Yeah, I imagine it's really creating those franchises.
16:55I mean, you have to clearly do it right
16:57because it's a double-edged sword to have IP
17:01because the fans know it.
17:03The fans really, they have a certain expectation
17:06and they can really be your biggest champion
17:11or they can be brutal.
17:13So how do you kind of navigate fandom
17:15when it comes to bringing out the IP?
17:19Well, I would say, look,
17:20it starts with great IP at the center of it, right?
17:23We were very fortunate with Anne Rice
17:25to have great IP as the foundation for that show.
17:29And then it's all about the creators who come in,
17:32appreciate, understand, find connection points
17:36to those particular stories
17:39within the connected universes.
17:41So again, trying to kind of find
17:44the compelling connection points
17:49to bring those characters to life,
17:51trying to build out those worlds
17:53to make them as immersive as possible,
17:56and trying to make these complicated, layered stories
18:00that resonate with a modern audience
18:02and lend themselves to the cultural conversation
18:04so that these stories have the ability to break through.
18:08But it all circles back to the visionaries
18:11that we are able to identify early on in the process
18:14who, again, could take these stories and bring them to life.
18:19Yeah, and Sarah, you know a thing or two, too,
18:21about making sure that you get the IP right.
18:23You took your time with Penguin
18:24to make sure that this was something
18:26that the fans who are, once again,
18:28they have a few things, they have a few comments,
18:30they have a few thoughts, especially about the DC universe.
18:33So how does that play into the development process
18:37in figuring out just servicing fandom
18:40but also not sort of being beholden to fandom?
18:43Well, I think you've just said it, exactly that.
18:46Because ultimately, fans don't want you to do
18:50what they're telling you to do.
18:52They want to be surprised by somebody
18:56that is as passionate about the IP as they are.
19:01They want to kind of think, oh my God, yes,
19:06we told you and you did it.
19:07That's not really kind of ever,
19:10because it's a little bit, again, about chasing.
19:12Like, you'll just never catch it.
19:14And so for us, it's also really drilling down on,
19:19really drilling down on what is the pleasure of this
19:23as a television series as opposed to as a movie?
19:26So for example, with Dune, I think I'm really pleased
19:31with how the show looks.
19:33It's pretty stunning, and that's nerve-wracking
19:37because Denis Villeneuve's movies are one of one.
19:41I mean, they're truly spectacular,
19:43but I think that we have expanded that world
19:46in a pretty exciting way.
19:48But in movies, you can only really focus
19:52on a central conflict and the characters in that clash
19:57and some character scenes and some action
19:59and then resolution.
20:01And that's incredibly satisfying as a big screen experience,
20:05but in a show, you have the opportunity
20:08to tell these longer-running stories.
20:09And so we're always wondering, like,
20:11what does the audience want from this IP
20:13in this longer format?
20:14And for Dune, it's this whole idea of plans within plans
20:18and that there are always secret agendas
20:20and there's always a person behind your enemy
20:22who is your bigger enemy or ally.
20:25And I think that is very much a pleasure of those books
20:29that can't be captured in a movie timeframe.
20:32So I think we try to really drill down
20:37into what is something we're bringing this audience
20:40that they couldn't get from the feature version.
20:43You're doing it or you're duning it.
20:45Ah.
20:45Um.
20:46Dad jokes, I'm sorry.
20:49It's early, come on, I'm waking you all up.
20:52So this is the Ententech Summit,
20:54and of course there's no sort of key issue right now
20:58in Ententech, the combination of the two,
21:00than of course AI.
21:01So let's talk a little bit about AI.
21:03Malik, I wanna start with you.
21:04You know, at Pinterest, how is AI sort of
21:07just changing things?
21:08How has it changed the game so far for you guys?
21:10Sure.
21:12First, we'd love to, and I'm gonna connect this to AI,
21:16what we were just talking about around fandom
21:19and these immersive worlds,
21:21that this is a place where a platform like Pinterest
21:25really comes alive because fans,
21:29we call our users pinners, come to the platform
21:33and they engage deeply in your IP.
21:38They get ready for premier weekends,
21:42they do their makeup like Euphoria,
21:45their outfits like Furiosa,
21:48their rooms like House of,
21:50like they really, really engage
21:52in a deep way through curation on the platform
21:58because Pinterest is unique in that
22:01it's the only curation platform that's out there
22:04where users can put together images
22:07with video, with collages all in one,
22:11and it's actionable and can drive tune in
22:14and other engagement.
22:16And then connecting that to AI,
22:18how we think about AI is around
22:23how can we be better at surfacing the right content
22:27to the right user at the right time.
22:30And we've done a lot of investment
22:32in really leveraging AI
22:36to match make the content
22:40with users looking for that content.
22:43So that is our primary use case
22:47with AI to really enhance the experience
22:52for viewers and for content owners
22:55so that their content can be more discoverable
23:00for the audience.
23:02And for the rest of you, I mean obviously
23:05there's a lot of concerns about AI
23:06in the creative community,
23:07but also AI can be used as a tool,
23:10especially in just developing
23:12and sort of the business side of things too.
23:15Have you found some benefits in using AI, Abhishek?
23:20Yeah, I think you said it, right,
23:22that using it in service of creative exploration
23:25as an added tool to create visuals
23:28in storyboards or in previs
23:31and other parts of the development process
23:33where you can then accompany
23:35what otherwise might just be a pitch
23:37or a scriptment with some visuals to accompany it
23:41or to explore different character designs.
23:43We have a lot of monsters in our movies
23:45and being able to use it to come up with reference
23:47that we then use in maybe more traditional ways
23:50in the actual production process,
23:52we find that we're testing it, I guess I should say,
23:55to really push the bounds of the creative exploration.
23:57And I think it can be a really useful tool that way.
24:00Hasn't yet got to the place
24:02where I think the world, it's the whiz-bang,
24:04enter in what you want and it spits out a movie.
24:06But in the creative exploration process,
24:08we think that there's a lot of fertile ground there.
24:12Yeah, Lisa, I'm sure Dick Wolf
24:14would like to do 30 more shows.
24:17And he's like, I could just AI it or?
24:19I mean, I like to think that, as Abhishek said,
24:23the tools and the ways that it can help people
24:25do their job better is interesting.
24:26But I believe that so much of the success of the shows
24:30is the human component and the connection
24:33that people feel to the characters and the storytelling
24:35and people bringing their personal experiences
24:39into the shows and into the characters.
24:41So I know it's moving very quickly,
24:45but in my mind, I don't think that you can replace
24:47the human piece of it and that part of the storytelling
24:52that really makes the emotional part,
24:54the part that you can't really define, feels intangible.
24:58So I'm not sure how AI is gonna do that yet.
25:00And if I can just jump in, I fully agree with that.
25:03I think that the human spirit, the human soul,
25:07telling stories that come from deep experiences
25:12and deep within, AI cannot replicate that.
25:16AI can be used as a tool to enhance storytelling
25:21and to support storytelling.
25:23But our perspective at Pinterest
25:27is that it's not about replacing the creators,
25:32replacing the soul that drives
25:36all of what we're talking about.
25:37It's how can we support that
25:39and think that there's opportunities for the industry
25:43to think like that as well.
25:46Ben, AI zombies.
25:47I don't know what that is,
25:48but that's just an idea you can run with it.
25:51Scott Gimple's very excited.
25:53No, look, I completely agree with what everyone said.
25:56AMC is exclusively in the auteur storytelling business.
26:01So AI is never gonna replace storytelling.
26:06And AMC is fully behind
26:10these visionary auteur storytellers.
26:13I think for us, we're very much in search and gather mode
26:16to better understand how this technology
26:20can serve as a tool to these auteurs and storytellers
26:24in terms of bringing their worlds to life.
26:27We focus on a variety of immersive worlds, as I've said,
26:30and worlds that have a great deal of scope and scale
26:35and visual effects and lots of zombies
26:37and shows that take place in the past as well.
26:40So we're looking to see how AI can kind of help
26:44bring those immersive worlds to life
26:48in a more efficient and effective price point.
26:52We're not there yet.
26:54Again, we're still kind of in search and gather mode
26:56and better understanding the technology
26:58and how potentially we could embrace it moving forward,
27:02but we're not there yet.
27:04Ben, you've been at AMC now for...
27:0820 years. 20 years.
27:09I wasn't sure if I wanted to reveal that,
27:11but that's okay.
27:12We're all younger.
27:12I'm celebrating my anniversary this week,
27:14so thank you, yeah.
27:15You started when you were 10,
27:19so congratulations on that.
27:21But you've obviously seen the business change
27:24quite a bit there from that vantage point,
27:26and these days it is challenging,
27:28particularly for an independent company.
27:29You gotta be a little more scrappy.
27:31And what has that meant to you at AMC
27:35and as we see the business change?
27:37For example, you have a number of shows now on Netflix
27:40that are doing quite well and sort of helping,
27:42I'm sure, sort of lift awareness
27:45and viewership of those shows.
27:47But what is striking you now
27:50as we talk a little bit about the challenges
27:52that this business is facing?
27:56I mean, it's really interesting.
27:58Given my tenure at AMC,
28:00it was really fun and exciting initially on
28:03to be the disruptor in the business.
28:07And then obviously we've seen our business
28:09and many others being disrupted
28:12by the tech companies coming in.
28:14So I would say just as a whole,
28:16the environment is obviously very complicated
28:19for all of us at the moment, including AMC.
28:23That said, at AMC, we are focused on a very simple strategy.
28:28We exclusively tell premium, high-quality dramas
28:34and series on our air,
28:36and we try to meet the viewers wherever they are.
28:39And whether or not that's making sure
28:41that the shows are available within the AMC ecosystem
28:44on linear or a streaming service
28:47or working with some of our distribution partners
28:50to make the shows available on AVOD, SVOD, and FAST.
28:55So again, it all comes back to
28:58we're in the storytelling business,
28:59we're gonna try to tell the best stories in the business,
29:02work with some of the best creators in the business
29:05and just stick to our strategy.
29:08Abhijay, what are you finding,
29:10particularly there's so much talk about
29:13the decrease in production,
29:15just the number of shows that are being greenlit
29:17is smaller than it used to be.
29:20What are some of the challenges that you're finding
29:22and what are you seeing in terms of
29:24maybe just the volume decrease at the different platforms?
29:29Look, I think it's well-documented
29:31in the pages of your fine publication too
29:34that it's a challenging environment out there,
29:36whatever analogy you wanna use to describe it,
29:38stormy seas.
29:40But for us, if I extend the analogy,
29:44I think in our vessel, we feel pretty confident
29:46about our ability to navigate through it.
29:48I think for a couple reasons,
29:50one, we're not afraid of lower budgets, right?
29:53It's kind of our specialty and going along with that,
29:56we're fine and happy to trade no fees in the budget
30:00in exchange for having meaningful upside or ownership.
30:03And that business model feels like
30:04the winds are moving more in that direction.
30:06And then on top of that, our brand,
30:08which means something to talent
30:10that we're able to do business with
30:12who have worked with us before
30:15or know that we have a specialty in scary,
30:17and then with consumers
30:18where we know it means something to them too.
30:20So if you put those things together,
30:23I think that gives us a chance
30:24to kind of navigate those waters.
30:27I mean, the boat still has got to float, right?
30:29We all know that, right?
30:29It still has to connect with consumers
30:32and be marketed and get out in the world.
30:34But even though it might seem challenging
30:37with the macro factors that are empirically documented
30:40about there being fewer shows,
30:42we really still think we can be successful there
30:44because of what we uniquely do.
30:47Sarah, obviously there's been a little bit of a change
30:50in terms of programming development at HBO and Max.
30:54Give us an idea of sort of what you're looking for now
30:56at Max and sort of what is a Max show
30:59that you're looking at?
31:01You mentioned the John Wells show, for example,
31:03but the kind of things
31:04that you're sort of gravitating toward right now.
31:06Yeah, I mean, I think that we have two very different ways
31:12and two very different targets.
31:14One is looking inside of our company
31:18and working with creators
31:21on some of the biggest pieces of IP that exist
31:24and how do we make those into shows.
31:26And those are kind of these multi-year projects
31:31and it's kind of bet big to hopefully win big with those.
31:34And then inside of that and to complement that,
31:37we really are reaching towards more cost-efficient shows,
31:42to be cheaper, but to, in general, be more nimble
31:45and to be able to dive in with creators like John Wells.
31:49I'm working on something new with J.T. Rogers,
31:52who was our showrunner on Tokyo Vice
31:55that's in the legal neck of the woods.
31:59We have a great partnership with Texas Monthly.
32:02I'm from Austin, so I'm particularly fond of that group,
32:06but Texans are insane.
32:08So there are tons of really good stories
32:10that have come out of there
32:12and all of that we're using as fuel to find,
32:15as I was saying earlier, shows at a reasonable price point,
32:18but that's kind of a proxy to just say
32:22that we're going to make more of,
32:24that we're going to bring back annually.
32:26And then inside of them,
32:27we want to find that kind of episodic satisfaction
32:31because, look, people love a sophisticated slow burn
32:34where you're like, what's happening this week?
32:36I don't even know, but it's cool.
32:38But people also love to see cards turned
32:40and be like, they got them.
32:41That's a surprise.
32:43Oh, the episode's over and we solved it.
32:45Like, I too like that.
32:47I enjoy that as well.
32:48And so I think that that's the new target for us
32:51is developing a stable of those kinds of shows.
32:54And we're very open to new talent,
32:56but we also have a lot of people
32:58we've worked on big things with,
32:59like J.T., for example, that are interested to coming in
33:03and kind of nosing around,
33:05playing in this corner of the sandbox.
33:08It's really the revenge of broadcast, right, Lisa?
33:11It's broadcast still, there's still an audience for it.
33:14I mean, again, we see-
33:15Not a dirty word anymore.
33:17Yeah, we see the, I mean, the numbers still
33:19and the broadcast shows that still do quite well
33:21on the streamers as well.
33:22And the fact that so many broadcast shows
33:24have a second life now on the streamers.
33:27But what do you, I mean,
33:28what is the market for original ideas?
33:31That's the thing that I hear all the time
33:33from creators, especially.
33:34Like, is there an appetite right now for original ideas?
33:39How hard is it to break through with an original idea?
33:41I think because it's such a crowded landscape,
33:44it's hard for any show to break through.
33:46But to me, it can be, IP is helpful
33:50because it gives you a jumpstart.
33:51People know it in the marketplace.
33:53But if it's IP without a good reason to do it,
33:56I don't, and as you were saying before, not done correctly,
33:58I don't think that's of a benefit.
34:00But an original idea, I think,
34:02it's a little bit more of a challenge,
34:04but I find it much more exciting.
34:06And then it's incumbent upon the execution
34:09and the packaging of it and the marketing of it
34:11and a way to get it out into the marketplace.
34:13Because I think that people crave
34:15and love original ideas.
34:17And when you look at, like, what shows worked at the Emmys,
34:19I mean, they're original ideas
34:21and things people didn't see coming.
34:22So I think it's important to invest in those
34:25and to support those and know that people will come
34:29for the things that they haven't seen before,
34:32even though, and I think there's a bit of reboot
34:34and IP fatigue.
34:36But again, when you have the right IP,
34:38as, you know, Sarah talked about,
34:40or as Ben was talking about,
34:42I think it can be a really big win.
34:44But I think it absolutely is still very much a priority
34:46for us and should be.
34:49Yeah.
34:50Ben, it looks like you're about to grab your mic.
34:52Sure, I was just gonna say,
34:54we've always prided ourselves on making sure
34:57that we have a very eclectic mix.
34:59And so if you look at the early days of AMC,
35:03where we had Mad Men, Breaking Bad,
35:05The Walking Dead, and The Killing,
35:07the through line for us was always quality,
35:11originality, clarity of voice, and authorship.
35:14So again, if you look at our slate today,
35:17we obviously have big tentpole franchise shows
35:22slash universes in The Walking Dead,
35:25in the Anne Rice Immortal Universe.
35:28But those franchises live side by side
35:31with Dark Winds, Monster's Spade.
35:35We're doing a new show with Jonathan Glatzer
35:37that's set in the tech world.
35:39So again, we really try to pride ourselves
35:42on making sure that we have the appropriate balance
35:45of fresh new shows with established franchise shows.
35:51And you mentioned, I mean, there's so much great content
35:55that's already in the pipeline and to come,
35:57that there's reason to be optimistic.
36:00I'm gonna end on that note.
36:01Reason to be optimistic in this business,
36:03still a lot of great content being produced
36:05and then being shared on Pinterest.
36:07So that's how we bring it all together.
36:09Well, thank you so much to my content visionaries.
36:13Thank you, Alan.