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00:00Today, on Arts24's film show, it was a low-budget, erotic film that became the most successful
00:17French movie of the time. Emmanuel went on to be the symbol of the sexual liberation
00:23and free love of the 70s. Fifty years after just Jacquin's movie became a global phenomenon,
00:29a remake is being released with some big changes, and it's directed by a woman, award-winning
00:34director Audrey Diouan. The action has moved from Thailand to Hong Kong, and the character
00:39exploring her sexual desires is played by Naomi Merlon.
00:46What exactly are you looking for?
00:48Only two types of guests frequent luxury hotels.
00:51Those on the prowl, and those on the run.
00:56Do you get pleasure?
00:58Why wouldn't I?
01:00What can you tell me about him?
01:03You seem to be a sticker for rules, but you don't always follow them, do you?
01:08Is it a game?
01:09Why should I answer?
01:10Because I can't stop thinking about you.
01:13In today's show, we're going to look at whether having a female behind the camera
01:17frees this iconic sex symbol from the male gaze, and we'll talk about how the 1974 film
01:23plays in a post-MeToo era.
01:25With me in the studio is film critic Perrine Quincin, and joining us from Brussels is the
01:30author Camille Moreau, who specialises in erotic literature.
01:34Hello to you both.
01:35Now, Perrine, the 1974 film is about a married woman who embarks on a voyage of sexual discovery.
01:41Describe it for us.
01:42Yeah, so Emmanuel is the story of a woman, played by Celia Christel, who's learning free love.
01:49It's a story about discovery, desiring bodies, wounding hearts, with a woman having, I would
01:55say, numerous sensual and sexual encounters with men and women during the movie.
02:00So it was seen as very cheeky, to say the least, at the time when it was released, but
02:06to be honest, it's more suggestive than demonstrative right now.
02:09So it went on to be such a huge success, a cult movie right now.
02:14To imagine the phenomenon at the time, you have to imagine that there was like huge queues
02:21in front of cinemas, huge posters all over Paris.
02:25In total, there was like 9 million French people who went to see the movie, almost 150
02:32million all around the world.
02:34So it's very, very big.
02:36In Paris, there is even a cinema on the Champs-Élysées who kept it on the bill during 10 years.
02:41So that's huge.
02:43And how do you explain the success of the film, do you think?
02:46Well, actually, it was such a scandalous movie, but, you know, scandal is not the only reason
02:50of success.
02:51It's because also the movie benefited of an amazing alignment of planets at the time.
02:57It was in the 1970s.
02:59There was this sexual freedom in the 70s.
03:02It was just after May 68 where we really had this discussion between, you know, sexuality
03:08and procreation.
03:09We were both separated.
03:10So real big liberation.
03:12And also there was this newly president elected, Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, during his campaign.
03:17He promised the end of censorship and he delivered just a month before the release of the movie.
03:25So with all the green flags, Emmanuel was meant to be a success.
03:29OK, well, Camille, the 1974 film was the adaptation of an erotic 1959 novel which was sold under
03:36the counter.
03:37You've written a book about it called Emmanuel Ansan.
03:40And the original film was quite different to the novel.
03:43And it was penned by a woman, wasn't it?
03:45Yes, exactly.
03:46It was penned by a woman, but not only by a woman and her husband, which is really important
03:53because it's a collaboration between a man and a woman that the image of desire is so
03:59effective in the book.
04:01And the 1974 movie is not that different from the book plot-wise, but it's really different
04:09from the spirit of the book.
04:10The plot is quite respected, but the spirit is not at all.
04:14OK, in 50 years and 10 sequels later, the new film is said to be an adaptation for our
04:20times that takes into account the evolution of society.
04:23Is it, do you think?
04:25The D1 movie is quite...
04:26If Emmanuel was still alive today and she has been through the Me Too movement and what
04:32is going to happen to her and to her desire, so I think it's really quite true to the book
04:40still today.
04:41But if Me Too has arrived in the meantime, it's about how we lose desire because we have
04:48an abundance of pleasure all the time and how that affects also our ability to desire
04:55someone or something.
04:57OK, well let's take a look at the new film.
05:19And the noise.
05:22Always the same.
05:26It was like the sound of a train or a machine operating full speed.
05:31That was a clip from the new movie.
05:33What's the main difference between just Jacques-Emmanuel and all the D1s?
05:38So they have both the same plot, mainly.
05:42They have key scenes in common, but one is set in Thailand, the one from 1974.
05:47The new one is in Hong Kong.
05:48And I would say just Jacques-Emmanuel is a more steamy, dreamlike movie about a woman,
05:56an idol woman, to be honest, who is discovering her own desire.
06:00And this new adaptation of Emmanuel Arseneau's book is more cerebral.
06:05It deals with a working woman who tries to find her own pleasure in the world.
06:11Like Camille just said, a world where desire is everywhere, where you have to be perfect
06:16all the time, where conception is immediate.
06:18And this new version tries to find a pleasure.
06:23That's the main thing.
06:24So the movie takes its time, really.
06:26It takes its time, it takes its reason to find, really, the tone.
06:31And ultimately, it's proving to be a powerful exploration of female pleasure, really.
06:36And at least the last half hour is absolutely beautiful.
06:41It's like a stroll in a very, I would say, sweaty Hong Kong.
06:46And it's very, very beautiful.
06:48It reminds me of In the Mood for Love by Wong Kar-wai, which is a great compliment, to be honest.
06:53Okay, and Camille, is the new version, would you say, more in line with the original book?
06:57Yes, it's more in line with the spirit, because it's the same story of a woman who is searching
07:03for her own desire, but by herself.
07:06I mean, she's really trying to find it by herself, with no help from the men,
07:12while in the Juste Jacquard movie, all the teaching was done by the men.
07:17And now, it's all obviously different, because the look we have at the actress is from a woman.
07:24So it's very different.
07:26It's more true to the book than the Juste Jacquard movie was.
07:29Okay, well, let's have a listen now to the director, Audrey Duhon,
07:34talking to France 24's Louise Dupont about eroticism.
07:38I was excited to take on this subject matter, not because I wanted to make any particular judgment
07:44or challenge a film I've never seen.
07:47After having read the book, I asked myself the question, does eroticism still exist in our society?
07:53Can I make viewers want to imagine or project themselves in this story,
07:57so that they're not just passive spectators in front of a film?
08:01I wanted to imagine a woman without any desire, who lives in quite an oppressive society,
08:06one that tells her that she has to be perfect all the time.
08:09Can this woman find her desire?
08:21Camille, the sex scenes in the original film are often very problematic,
08:25with the actress, the object of desire, and there's a big issue of lack of consent,
08:30especially in a group rape scene at the end.
08:33What do you think of the sex scenes in the new film?
08:35Well, there's a big difference in the Audrey Duhon movie between the sex scenes
08:40at the beginning of the movie and the sex scenes at the end.
08:44So not to reveal too much, but there is quite a gradation in the ability of the heroine
08:51to really grab her desires and really act them for herself.
08:57The sex scenes at the beginning of the movie are really quite dissociated.
09:01She's not really there, but she learns more and more to really act sexually for herself,
09:10and that's quite beautiful to see, actually.
09:12And the fact that the movie is quite slowly going to this point,
09:16it's quite agreeable, I think, because we are with her on this quest,
09:22and it's really nice to watch, I think.
09:25And the actress, we remember Sylvia Kristol's life was defined by her role in the original film.
09:31We asked actress Naomi Merlon if she was concerned about the same thing happening to her.
09:39It doesn't scare me. I don't care if people associate me with an erotic film.
09:44I felt like some people were scared, but that actually made me want to do the project even more.
09:51Working with women and discussing the idea of female pleasure in 2024
09:56is what interested and excited me the most.
10:01We are running out of time, but a final question to you, Parine.
10:04Do you think women can free themselves from the male gaze and desire?
10:09I hope so in everyday life, which is very interesting to see female directors play with this notion.
10:14There is this movie, The Substance, which is going to be released very soon in France.
10:18In this movie, the director, Coralie Finja, exaggerates the male gaze very much to mock it.
10:24Here in Audrey Diwan's movie, she turns it on its head because it's the gaze of a desirous woman,
10:31which is great, actually.
10:34Fortunately, gaze isn't only male anymore.
10:39For now, I wish.
10:41Thank you so much. That brings us to the end of the show.
10:44Film critic, Parine, counsellor and author Camille Moreau, thank you so much for joining us.
10:49Audrey Diwan's Emmanuelle is out in French cinemas this week.
10:53Thanks for watching. See you next time.
11:14And what's your name?