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00:00:00Hello, good morning everybody and welcome to our live stream update for judges, coaches
00:00:28and anybody else who's interested. I'm sharing this table today with Hilary Quick. Hilary
00:00:34is an International Ice Dance Judge and a National Level Singles Pairs Judge, also a
00:00:40Technical Specialist and a Technical Controller, all the things that we need in this sport.
00:00:46So thanks for sharing your time with me today. Good morning, happy to be here. Okay, so today
00:00:51the content will be similar to the Summer Skate update for those of you who were there.
00:00:57There will be some additional things and there's also some deletions because there just wasn't
00:01:04time. But this presentation will be archived so then you can go back and look and listen
00:01:13and if anything comes up you can also ask questions later. So this morning, if you have
00:01:18questions during the hour, please email your questions to bcytsectionatskatinginbc.com
00:01:29and then they'll be relayed to us. Perfect, and please send your questions, we're here
00:01:33to answer them as much as we can. Okay, so we're going to get right into, we're going
00:01:39to start with the GOEs and the GOE guidelines. So this is something that all skaters and
00:01:50coaches should make themselves familiar with. Judges already are familiar with it, you can
00:01:57see it on the screen there. And just so you know, we don't really pull a mark out of the
00:02:02air. No, not at all. I think some people think we do and sometimes we might like to but no,
00:02:08we have criteria. Every element has recommended guidelines for increasing the GOE and then
00:02:14for taking reductions based on errors. And it can be a real balancing act for a decision
00:02:20that like we're done in a matter of seconds. Sometimes it's like, oh my gosh, like they're
00:02:26on to the next element, I got to get my GOE in. So just study that document in your spare
00:02:33time if you have any, because it's quite interesting. And I think it's also a good
00:02:38learning tool for athletes to have a look at as well. Right, and I think it's really important
00:02:44for athletes to know where they can have their GOE go up and not just why did I get that particular
00:02:53mark and why was it reduced. So on the sheet, you can see it's broken down into two different
00:02:59errors. There's the positive and the negative. And we always try to start positive. Right,
00:03:04exactly. Always. And on the positive bullets, there are always the top three in bold that you
00:03:12must get if you want to get that elusive plus four plus five GOE. So you can see that and it's
00:03:21really great. It was really great for coaches to have this at the board so that people are
00:03:25looking at this when they're doing their elements to see, okay, am I aware of what I'm doing that
00:03:31can build my GOE in a positive way? And then the other side are the reductions. And this,
00:03:39if you are a judge and haven't used it yet this season, you'll see that there's gray boxes. And
00:03:45those gray boxes are there for a reason. They are highlighting the reductions where you cannot
00:03:53higher than plus two. So there's certain errors that you can never start higher than plus two,
00:04:00even if you thought it was an amazing wow, wow, wow, wow, but they were short a revolution in a
00:04:05short program, for instance, you can't start higher than plus two. And a lot of the times
00:04:10you may see this, for example, the most amazing job, huge covers the ice was to the music,
00:04:17had amazing flow. They land, there's a second of a landing and they hit an itch. What do we do? And
00:04:24oftentimes you may see that and go, oh, that was a fall. Why wasn't, why didn't everyone just give
00:04:30it a minus five? Because it hit all of those other bullets. But I, again, those, those elements,
00:04:36we can't be higher than plus two. Now there, those should make sense to you when you look at them,
00:04:44but the one that I think people really need to pay attention to for the short program are the
00:04:48spins with missing revolutions. In doing some monitoring last year, people were like, oh, what,
00:04:55what do you mean? I'm not going to get more than a plus two. And the spin was actually plus three,
00:05:00plus four. And I'm like, you're, you're, you're causing this issue by missing one revolution. So
00:05:07really important to pay attention there. So then if we go to the we're just going to stick with
00:05:15GUEs for a minute, but for judges because in the past, if there's been a change on the sheet for
00:05:22the new season, it's been underlined, but the ISU has ceased to do this. They think we should be
00:05:29detectives. So I, you know, I take my old sheet and my new sheet and compare. And so this is what
00:05:37the, the changes are for you to note. Actually, Steve, I actually took my sheet. Do you want to
00:05:45focus on me for a second? I actually highlighted for myself what was new or changed because it's
00:05:54kind of helpful for me to see that. So the changes are the Euler executed as a step over,
00:06:02used to be minus one to minus two. And now we can go as take off as much as minus three. This
00:06:10is not saying we, we wind up at minus three. It's, it's a reduction from our starting mark.
00:06:15Then there's a very interesting one. And this is important because we've had a lot of questions.
00:06:20The free skating, it says FS, so free skate, jump with no value in combo sequence,
00:06:26not with asterisk, minus three to minus four. So just ignore this. This was created for the
00:06:34ISU system. That's what we've kind of figured out. They don't have, for instance, a single
00:06:40toe downgrade that shows. So it just goes in as a T for toe. And so in free skating,
00:06:46the judges have to take this reduction. If it's a pop jump, we will see it's minus,
00:06:51it's a downgraded single jump. And so we already take that reduction. So just,
00:06:56you can just put a strikethrough. Ignore it. Yes. Perfect. Now the spins for this year,
00:07:03it's quite severe, some of these new reductions. So very important that you're covering this with
00:07:08your athletes. If you're missing one to two revolutions in a spin, it's going to be minus
00:07:15one to minus two. But if you're missing three or more revolutions, it's minus three to minus four.
00:07:21And often I'll see this in a free skate where they're towards the end of the program. The
00:07:28athlete might be tired. The first side of the spin, good, seven, eight revolutions. Second,
00:07:34they might be behind their music. The program's getting ready to end and boom, they're short.
00:07:39And so be aware this revolution can be quite, or this reduction can be quite costly.
00:07:46And in the free program on a, sorry, they do the total, like number in total. But still,
00:07:59if you've only got three on a second foot and you've got 10 on the first foot, it's not so
00:08:04well balanced. And what they've done is separated out. So it's a bigger, bigger reduction if you're
00:08:09missing more. And then we have a brand new one. And this is also in pairs that if it does not
00:08:17correspond to the music, we can take a reduction. I struggle with this one. I do too. I think we're,
00:08:26personally, I think I'm getting into the weeds there because I already automatically already
00:08:32have that in my head that if it's not going with the music, I'm doing something with it already.
00:08:37But anyways, to me, it would have to be pretty severe. Maybe there's a clear crescendo where
00:08:44they should change feet and then they change feet like two seconds later. I'm going, well,
00:08:48that wasn't really with the music. So I might take a minus one. But that is a new reduction in there.
00:08:53And so we should be using it if it's appropriate. Yeah, definitely. We're carrying on with this.
00:09:02There's the choreographic sequence and they have a new reduction. It's small pattern. I kind of
00:09:10welcome this one. Sorry. And I think for the coaches, it's so important that the choreo
00:09:17sequence should feel well. It's a moment for the athlete to shine, to showcase the different field
00:09:24moves that they can do, that they can showcase their music. And it shouldn't be a blip in the
00:09:31program. Nope, not a blip in the program because then we go, where is it? We're going to talk a
00:09:37little bit more about choreos shortly, but that's just a new reduction for the judges. And then this
00:09:44other one, please everybody note, I missed it when we were doing summer skate update and Alex
00:09:51pointed it out to me. At the very top of the GOE sheet, there is a new sentence that says element
00:10:02executed fully or partly when music is not playing. So basically when they finished behind their music
00:10:11and they're still spinning, we can take minus one up to minus four. So that's huge. So that's a
00:10:21training thing, I think, for your athletes to be aware that if they're behind their music, catch up.
00:10:30And I never realized how much this happens till this new GOE came into effect. So this happens
00:10:38way more than we think. It does. Yeah. So I would just write on my sheet behind music, but now I
00:10:43actually have a reduction to take in that element. So just make sure that your athletes know about that.
00:10:50So GOE is on elements with levels. Here we want to talk about risk versus reward, doing the math.
00:11:04What makes sense? Yes. So this is where coaches and the skaters have a little bit of control. I'm
00:11:13just going to quickly review this. We won't talk so much as we did before, but if you look at this
00:11:19slide and we compare the levels, compare the zero, GOE, the one in the middle for the level three
00:11:28spin. So that's the base value, level three spin flying camel. The skater gets 2.8 if they get a
00:11:34zero GOE. Even if they get plus one, they're up in the threes. Then we go to the level four flying
00:11:42camel spin because they're trying to get that extra position. And finally, yes, the tech panel says,
00:11:48yep, it's a level four. And the judge is going, whoa, I'm going down because of the effort it's
00:11:54taking to do this spin or the balance or the anesthetic position perhaps. Maybe I'm just
00:12:01getting to minus two, but the value is 2.56. It's less than the flying camel spin three at a zero.
00:12:09So I'm not saying don't aspire for the level four. I'm not saying that at all. But think about
00:12:19whether the higher level is worth going for if the GOE is going to be seriously impacted.
00:12:27Would you agree?
00:12:29Very much so. Sometimes quality is much better than quantity.
00:12:36So getting the level four versus the level three.
00:12:37I think quality is always better.
00:12:39Yeah. All right. Now, choreo sequences vary similarly, and we know which categories have
00:12:49to do a choreo sequence, star, eight, 10, and gold. The junior and senior singles free program,
00:12:57pre-novice to senior pair free program. And this is where we can really maximize our numbers.
00:13:06So a big journey is possible.
00:13:07Hang on. Hang on. Just a second. I want to ask you a question.
00:13:10Okay.
00:13:10So we're into choreos now. And is difficulty involved?
00:13:19No. No.
00:13:22Maybe some as they get better, but it's not difficulty like trying to do a triple jump.
00:13:28Is there high risk?
00:13:30I think it's about the skater being able to show us they can utilize the music,
00:13:36that they can showcase the field moves that they've identified that showcase their skill.
00:13:42Do they have to be a great jumper to do a great choreo?
00:13:45Not at all.
00:13:45Not at all. So just maximize this element if you can.
00:13:52Exactly.
00:13:52Now you can talk about the GOE.
00:13:54The base value is three points.
00:13:56Three points. So that's an average element. But if you were to
00:14:06increase or decrease your GOE, it goes up by 0.5. So if you were to get a plus two choreo sequence.
00:14:19Technically it's four. It's four points more. Things are factored, et cetera, et cetera.
00:14:26Whereas all the other elements, the GOE increases is reduced by the percentage of the base value.
00:14:34This does not happen with choreo. It simply goes up 0.5, 0.5, 0.5, and also down.
00:14:39And that's why I want to always encourage officials when you are judging a choreo sequence,
00:14:45really pay attention and award the skaters who show us the positive aspects
00:14:51and reduce for the skaters who don't.
00:14:55I think that's really key. Separate them. Not everyone's average in a choreo sequence.
00:15:00Okay. So now we're just going to show, we have two.
00:15:04And well, maybe they aren't very long. So just Hilary, you want to do that one first?
00:15:24Okay. Okay. It's right. Okay. So I'll ask you the question.
00:15:51Does the element match the music and reflect the character or concept of the program?
00:15:57Possibly.
00:15:58Maybe. Is it creative?
00:16:00The movement does. Is it creative? No. So this choreo had right back outside spiral,
00:16:07another right back outside spiral. Maybe it was back inside. I don't know.
00:16:11No. Oh, it was back inside. So they were different. I was thinking she had two right
00:16:16back outside. I'll have to look at it again. I should have written that down. Yeah. Play it
00:16:21while we talk. So yeah. So she does a, she's doing a lot of just skating. She's not doing
00:16:30anything fancy here. Right back inside, right back outside. So they are two different spirals
00:16:37and left forward outside. But the whole choreo is made up simply of spirals that really don't
00:16:43even cover the ice in my opinion. I'm not, I'm not keen on this choreo sequence. Sorry. I don't
00:16:48think it's maximizing anything for the skater. And there's where we would use small pattern as well.
00:16:55Exactly. Yeah. So there is the ability for a judge in this situation to, for this choreo
00:17:00sequence to be in the negatives. I would, I wouldn't even be thinking about it. I would be
00:17:05in the negatives. Yes. Yes. So yeah. Now let's show another one. This one. Yeah.
00:17:13Play it. We'll play it through and then we'll chat about it. Okay.
00:17:35So
00:17:53wow. Okay. So very different than what we just saw. So if you go through your,
00:17:58um, your bullets, right. Your positive aspects. So does the element match the music or reflect
00:18:05the character concept of the program? For me, it definitely did. Definitely. Um, yes. Creative.
00:18:11I did feel there was creativity in that both in her body movements and just the, the way she, um,
00:18:19used the ice. Correct. For sure. Um, was it effortless with good energy flow and execution?
00:18:26So I think she had good energy, but it was not effortless. I agree. It didn't have the best flow
00:18:31and the execution was so I'm not giving that bullet. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Very directions and
00:18:37pattern. Absolutely. Like it was, it was really interesting. It was, it was quite long and maybe
00:18:42for some, um, skaters with their music, they don't have that length of time to do a choreo,
00:18:48but honestly, in junior women, they don't do a step sequence. So I think you have a lot of times
00:18:54seniors a bit different where they have to do the step and the choreo, but in your star programs,
00:18:59use this element to, um, for your athlete to kind of make a statement to show that they understand
00:19:06the music, to show, um, nice clean body line and, and interesting positions. Like,
00:19:14so what's another one on there? Yeah. Good clarity and precision. Yeah. So there isn't
00:19:18not a lot of clarity in her footwork, um, you know, precise movement. So she's not getting
00:19:23that one. And that's where the skater would be sort of, if she were asked for how to get a higher
00:19:29GOE or how to get higher than plus three, then that would certainly be one of the ones. And then
00:19:33the last one is excellent commitment and control of the whole body. I think she's committed. I think
00:19:39she's committed. I don't think she has control. Exactly. So this is a good example where I think
00:19:46very easily you could be at a plus three. Yeah, I think so. There's no way you could be higher
00:19:51because of the bullets. If you flip over to your reduction sheet, um, there are,
00:19:59I don't think there's any obvious ones on reducing core. No, because if you look, the pattern wasn't
00:20:04small. Was there a lack of connection between the choreographic movements? No way. She didn't
00:20:10stumble. She didn't lack energy. Was, were her movements of a poor enough quality to denote a
00:20:17reduction? Some, some people might take a minus one off of that and I wouldn't necessarily disagree.
00:20:24It definitely corresponds to the music. So we don't do that. We don't do that. We don't do
00:20:28lack of creativity. I think it was creative. So regardless this choreo, in my opinion, would be
00:20:34a positive GOE. That's, you know, no matter, I don't think I would get to a zero because there's
00:20:41enough there that, that tells me that it's worth more than that. Yeah. Okay. Now we're going to
00:20:47move on to program components and the changes for this year. One of the changes is not related to
00:20:57the singles discipline, but related to pairs and ice dance and that unison is included in skating
00:21:05skills and not presentation. So the wording change under presentation is awareness of each other's
00:21:13distance and placement without looking. Whereas the wording under skating skills is the ability
00:21:20to execute the skating repertoire of edges, steps, turns, body movements with similarity
00:21:26of technique. I think it makes sense. It's interesting. I liked it when, when I saw that
00:21:30word similarity of technique, I went, yeah, that's really what we're looking for in that,
00:21:35in that skating skills. And then the presentation part of it, it's, it's the awareness of one
00:21:40another as opposed to everything being in, in unison. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. There's many,
00:21:48unison encompasses so many different things. So do they still, oh, I should, I should,
00:21:52I'll have to look this up. I don't actually know the answer. Like, do they still use the words
00:21:56as one? The pair should seem, or the dance couple should seem as one. It's not listed
00:22:01in the criteria. Oh, okay. Well, I still think they should be as one. For sure. For sure. All
00:22:08right. Now another change this year has to do with the words we use to describe the zero to 10
00:22:15categorization. And we'll show you this scale, which some of you may have seen made it a little
00:22:22bit bigger for us. And it has to do with the orange 4.0 to 4.75. We used to this used to be
00:22:31fair. And now the wording is below average, which makes sense. Yeah. It's kind of the same thing.
00:22:39So, um, can I just talk a bit about this, this, um, rubric as you want to call it? So,
00:22:46um, some people will be, um, familiar with the name Karen Howard, who is, um, ISU, uh, Singleton
00:22:54Pairs judge from Canada. And she's done a lot of work with education and a lot of work on the
00:22:59program components. And she, together with her daughter, who's a teacher a couple of years ago,
00:23:05she was, she was, um, they were brainstorming a bit about words and how to use simple words to,
00:23:13to, um, to put you in the right place, things to think about as a, because some of the definitions
00:23:20when you read them are quite complicated to kind of pull up in your mind as you're on, on the
00:23:26stand. So that's how she came up with this. So, um, it's kind of, it's good for judges. Um,
00:23:33and also it is posted on our website now. It would be under technical, um, new program components.
00:23:43So there's a whole, um, page devoted to the program components. So that document is there
00:23:49for anyone who wishes to print it off and use it for their own, um, their own learning and their
00:23:56own, like, usefulness when they're, when they're actually out there on, on the panel. Those words
00:24:01will come to you. And they do. And the words speak differently to different people. So it's
00:24:05incredibly helpful. Now there is a new resource from the ISU and it's posted under the officials
00:24:13resources section of our website under section, uh, singles and pairs. What is this one?
00:24:19Okay. So this is, um, I mentioned this at summer too. It's, uh, it's called the ISU
00:24:25handbook for referees and judges. I recommend that coaches also take a look at this, um, if
00:24:33you're interested because basically it's not, it doesn't deal specifically with the role of the
00:24:38referee in any way. It's very much a Q and a for really for judges when they're, and technical
00:24:46panel as well, because it deals with both. Um, when they have questions about, you know, what,
00:24:50if this happens, what would my mark be? Um, or a tech panel, if they do this, what,
00:24:56what do we do with our level or et cetera? So I think it's, um, um, it's, it's worth printing off.
00:25:03It's not very long. And, um, it's a, for me, it would be a resource that I might sit and read
00:25:11before I went out to judge as a judge, just to remind me of, cause it's common errors that we
00:25:16see that in the moment on the panel and we go, oh, what do I do with this one? But if I've kind
00:25:22of read it before, it's like a consolidation in my mind of how I deal with those, um, sit
00:25:28situations. Yeah. Some of those unique scenarios that you wonder. Yeah. All right. Now star.
00:25:35Let's go to star. Okay. So we have a little bit, not a lot, but there are some things. So, um,
00:25:44so this first one, I hope everybody knows this by now that the star six assessment is the new
00:25:50prerequisite to enter a pre-novice category in all disciplines, singles, pairs, and, or ice dance.
00:25:58So if your skater is planning to enter sectionals, they must, as a pre-novice skater, they must have
00:26:04passed their complete star six assessment. Okay. Hillary, the next one. Oh, this is a good one.
00:26:12Star four, the bonus for the axle, for a single axle, fully rotated. There's a maximum now of just
00:26:20one. So Janice, if I used to do two single axles in my program, can I still? You can still do two
00:26:27single axles, Hillary. And that was a question I've had. Like it kind of reads like if you quickly
00:26:33look at it, maybe you can only do one single axle. In fact, you're only getting one bonus.
00:26:38You can do, you can still do two axles. Perfect. So, um, I've, I've had a question about that from,
00:26:44um, a coach and I went, oh, thanks for asking that because when I read it again, I went, oh,
00:26:48it's not really obvious at the beginning. So you can still do two axles, but you're only going to
00:26:52get one bonus. Perfect. And then the spin requirement to receive a silver assessment
00:27:01in STAR. This is a reminder, but it's interesting. It's tough. To get a silver, what do you need?
00:27:10Okay. In the spin, this is, this is to do with basic positions. So you must achieve that actual
00:27:17basic position before you get the silver. So if it's a sit spin, um, and you haven't reached that,
00:27:27you know, the, what's the definition, the parallel, the blah, blah, blah is parallel
00:27:34to the ice. Sorry. Sorry. I haven't got it in my head. Um, I do know if you don't hit that sit
00:27:40for two revolutions, then you haven't attained the basic position. Same with the camel. If you
00:27:46don't get that camel position, um, before, uh, for two full revolutions, then you're not,
00:27:53you're not getting the, the silver, um, and it would be bronze. So I think in the past,
00:27:59we've had some, um, varying interpretations of this in our section. So in some competitions
00:28:08with some panels of judges, they, well, it's only STAR two. So for the level. Yeah. For the level,
00:28:15it's pretty good. It's a little low. But in fact, I, I did send an email, um, before I did this in
00:28:22summer to get clarification because I thought it was a bit harsh. Um, but it's not. So therefore,
00:28:30um, you have to, and it's been like this forever. We just haven't always evaluated it that way. So
00:28:36now we need to get total consistency across our province on how we evaluate those spins in,
00:28:42in the STAR assessments that they must hit that basic position. And it makes sense. It does.
00:28:48We want good, strong basics for the spins. Yeah. So carrying on, um, the passing requirement for
00:28:56the gold free skate program assessment, uh, this came out for July one of this year.
00:29:03And previously there were no specific jump or spin requirements needing to be met. So Hillary,
00:29:10do you want to just go through them? Sure. So now what's new is six of seven jumps must be
00:29:16silver or better, including four different double jumps. Two of three spins must be silver or better
00:29:26and one additional element at silver or better. So nine of 11 elements must be silver or better.
00:29:34And there are no changes to the program components requirements. Yes. So this makes
00:29:39sense to me. It does make sense. Um, I've done some gold programs where the skating's been okay,
00:29:44they've been strong skaters, but they've opted when we didn't have those requirements that you
00:29:50had to have four different double jumps at silver or better. I was getting like a whole lack of
00:29:55single jumps and I'm going, this is gold. And like, it actually has met the criteria anyways.
00:29:59So now the criteria to pass is a little, uh, stricter. So just make note of that, um, when
00:30:07you're training your athletes and when you get the results of the program. And it's also a good note
00:30:12to make sure that your assessment coordinators are printing off the most recent version of the
00:30:17test sheets or assessment sheets, I should say. Um, I think we're a lot of times a club in their
00:30:24office might have printed off a whole whack and the day of may not have them. So I think it's
00:30:31really important for as officials, if you're going out to do an assessment day, you're aware of the new
00:30:37changes and that you're looking at the sheet to make sure you're working with the most recent one.
00:30:41Yes. They are all posted on the, um, Skate Canada members only website, um, under materials. So
00:30:50they're all there. If you wanted to take a look and see what it, what the sheet looks like, if
00:30:54you haven't seen a recent one. So yeah. Okay. So now we'll go, um, to, um, one more thing I want
00:31:02to just talk about briefly. Um, I won't do a video because, well, I forgot to get it anyways.
00:31:12We want to talk about one other thing before we go in there.
00:31:15No, I'm doing, no, I'm not there yet. I'm doing this one. Okay.
00:31:19Nope.
00:31:20Oh, okay. I'm out of order.
00:31:22That's okay. That's okay. Um, it has to do with the, um, the new wording for the three minute
00:31:28break requiring medical attention, no deduction taken.
00:31:32No, I had a hidden slide and that's why it's okay.
00:31:35That's okay. So, um, the words have included, uh, been added to include nose bleeding. So
00:31:41if your athlete has a nose bleed in the middle of the program, what used to have happened is
00:31:46it would keep going because they didn't have the ability to take the three minute
00:31:52medical attention, no deduction taken.
00:31:55Right. If they stopped, they would get the deduction.
00:31:59And at junior senior, it was five points and it's factored to the lower levels, but still,
00:32:03it was a big deduction. So now that this has been changed to be like a medical issue. So
00:32:09if they have a nose bleed and they need to stop to get it taken care of, they do not
00:32:15get the deduction. It's still three minutes. Like that hasn't changed. You don't get more
00:32:18than three minutes, but, um, you won't get a deduction for that. So that's a really important
00:32:23change that, um, everybody should be aware of.
00:32:26Perfect.
00:32:28And yeah, okay.
00:32:30And then this is also, we want to bring to people's attention, um, warm up times in our
00:32:38section competitions. Um, it's really important that you read the announcement as this is
00:32:43the information that we're always going to follow. And in our section, prejuvenile warm
00:32:48up time is five minutes and star five to gold is also five minutes. And then if you have
00:32:55a question and you want to look and reference this documents with all categories is posted
00:33:00under officials, ref resources, referee and info manuals.
00:33:04It's under referee info manuals. And actually the one that's there right now should have
00:33:09just removed it yesterday. I'm in the process of updating it. So maybe Danielle can just
00:33:14go in and take it off. If somebody looks for it now, cause it's not, it's not the updated
00:33:18one.
00:33:18But I will tell you, I always, if I'm a referee, I always check the announcement that's posted
00:33:24on the website before I go out to make sure that I'm following it.
00:33:29If you were at summer skate, there was confusion about our warmups because we had taken prejuvenile
00:33:34out for a year. So that, and that warmup time wasn't in, we've opted to do five minutes.
00:33:38We think it's quite enough time. And absolutely like in internationally at ISU, the, the novice
00:33:46competitions or the, um, basic novice and they have, they have like, I think some of
00:33:52them have like four minute warmup.
00:33:54Anyways, it's, it's, that's what it is. That is what it is. What it is.
00:33:59There we go. So now one of the things we wanted to do is go to some frequently asked questions.
00:34:04I still haven't gone to my slide that you missed.
00:34:07Which is what?
00:34:07My, this one.
00:34:09So it is.
00:34:12Before I do, you don't have it in there. Sorry.
00:34:15Sorry.
00:34:16We, uh, we were, we, we dealt pretty well until we got to this one. So, so I do want
00:34:21to just talk briefly about solo dance because last year Skate Canada introduced it as a new
00:34:28podium pathway category. We've always had it and we'll continue to always have it in
00:34:33our star categories. But now if you're, if you have, um, skaters who want to be,
00:34:40I'll say perhaps more, I don't know if competitive is the right word because everybody's competitive
00:34:45whatever level they're at, but anyways, if they want to take their, take it to another
00:34:49level, perhaps, um, we have, um, solo dance beginning with novice. So we have novice,
00:34:56junior and senior. And, um, it's just a great place for skaters to do a little more with
00:35:03their, with their dance when they don't have a partner. Um, the requirements are included
00:35:09in the ice dance, uh, quick reference guide and also the technical requirements guide.
00:35:14So those are posted under, um, under the technical pages under ice dance. And just
00:35:22one minor change to be made aware of for the star solo dances in star two and three. Uh,
00:35:29this year they've given the option for them to do two dances instead of just the one probably
00:35:35early in the season that might opt to be one, but it's up to the region. So in your region
00:35:40announcements that are posted, excuse me, it will say if they're doing one or two dances
00:35:46and what the dances are. And actually they don't all say that yet. So I need to go in
00:35:51and fix those and I'll talk to the regions and, uh, see what they're doing. So we'll get that,
00:35:57uh, sorted out note to self, uh, this week. I'm very excited about solo dance. I was
00:36:03encouraged by the numbers for autumn leaves. I think there was four novice and a senior,
00:36:08and I hope to see it rise as it takes, takes on a life of its own.
00:36:13Yes. Okay. Okay. Now, okay. Now we can go to the frequently asked questions. So Janice,
00:36:20I think you get a lot of emails from time to time from coaches and officials about a lot
00:36:24of different topics. Okay. So, um, I get lots of emails and I welcome the emails. They're
00:36:31not a problem at all. I enjoy answering them. Sometimes I forget to answer them. So
00:36:37thank you yesterday to two coaches who emailed me and said,
00:36:41just resending in case it got stuck down in your inbox, which it did. So, uh, if it's,
00:36:47yeah. So please always, if I haven't answered, uh, just gentle reminder back to me and I will
00:36:53answer it. So, um, the most common question I've had this year is about the well-balanced program
00:36:59and repeated jumps. So, uh, this is mostly for the prejuvenile, um, star six, maybe, uh,
00:37:09anyway, there was a year when we talked about in the requirements, they could only do so many
00:37:17different jump types, which ended up being removed because it caused a lot of confusion.
00:37:27So don't even think about jump type. Jump type is loop, flip, lutz, et cetera. Just think about
00:37:34repeated jumps is, is it the same code? So a single loop and a double loop,
00:37:40same jump or different jump, Hillary? They're different. Oh, good girl. Yeah. So, um, if it's
00:37:48a single loop or a double loop, they're different jumps. Um, if you planned for them to do a double
00:37:54loop and they do a single loop instead, and then have another single loop in their program,
00:38:00that is a repeated jump. Um, if it went in as double loop downgrade, that's different. That's
00:38:05okay. That was a double loop that just didn't get fully rotated. But if it's a clearly a single loop,
00:38:11then, then that counts as repeated jump. And then if they've got two double toes somewhere else,
00:38:16then they have too many repeated jumps depending on what category it is. And we see it mostly with
00:38:21errors these days. We do. Yes. Yeah. So, okay. Something goes wrong with the music.
00:38:28Okay. Well, this is another question. And we, as judges and referees too, um, kind of,
00:38:38it always takes us by surprise and our little heart starts thumping and like, whatever, um,
00:38:43harder, faster. Um, there is no penalty to a skater if they have to stop when something's
00:38:52gone wrong with their music. And should they stop? Yes. Yes. It's not their fault. It's not
00:38:57your fault. It's not their fault. There will be no, um, deduction made at all. And particularly
00:39:05if it's in the beginning or the first, even two thirds, maybe at the very end, if something's
00:39:12happened and they're in a, on a roll and it hasn't bothered them, they, they keep going.
00:39:16But if it means this, the music skipped ahead and all of a sudden it's finished and they're
00:39:20still skating, that's a problem. So, um, a skater should know that if there's something
00:39:25wrong with their music, they can go to the referee and, uh, they will pick it up where it
00:39:31happened, um, when the problem's been resolved. There is an, um, an opportunity to restart all
00:39:39over again under one condition, which is, do you remember? Yes. Within 20 seconds from the start
00:39:47of the program. So if something happens in the first 20 seconds, skater's done some great stuff.
00:39:53They're probably better to say, uh, no, I think I'll just keep going. Yeah. But, um, if they do
00:39:59decide to restart, then we don't, we just ignore that first attempt and we start judging all over
00:40:05again. Now there's the only time in figure skating when you get to restart if, if there's a music
00:40:10problem in the first 20 seconds. Right. Okay. Now we see this happen more at the younger,
00:40:18with the younger athletes, if the skater forgets their program, what happens then? In this case,
00:40:25tell them not to stop. Don't stop. Keep going. And I've seen coaches yell and go, keep going,
00:40:31keep going. The coach knows, the coach knows. Yeah. Do something. Do that. Because in this case,
00:40:36the judge will, or the referee will not stop the music. There is no, there's nothing wrong
00:40:40with the music. Um, there's no injury happening, et cetera. So they just, and the thing is the
00:40:48longer they're wandering it, then we start timing for an interruption. So it's, it's, it's very
00:40:55distressing to the skater, to the coach, also to the officials on the panel when the skater's
00:41:00forgotten their program, but they can just somehow know to ad lib, you know, like if you're
00:41:04on stage and you forgot your lines, you make something up. So yeah, it doesn't, yeah. Um,
00:41:10okay. Then, um, oh, asterisk in the free program versus the short program. So this is for the
00:41:17officials, for the judges. This causes me anxiety in a free program because it's not something that
00:41:25happens very much. Well, it can, but mostly it happens in, uh, jump combos. Exactly. So for,
00:41:34um, a short program, it's really clear. So let's say I am required to do a double axle
00:41:42in a short program and I do a single axle, the technical panel, when they enter, it'll go single
00:41:48axle and I see a little star. And that tells me that it didn't meet the requirements of the short
00:41:52program. I need to do a minus five GOE. And not only do we do minus five, actually, we don't need
00:41:58to do anything because on the printout it shows nothing. That's all those dot, dot, dot, dot
00:42:03dashes across the details when there's been no value to an element. The judge could put in plus
00:42:09five and it still wouldn't show. Um, but in a free skating program, this asterisk is different
00:42:16because it doesn't mean it has to be minus five. It means that element isn't getting a value.
00:42:24However, the judge in a free program always evaluates exactly what they see. That's right.
00:42:31So I'm going to evaluate that jump from the very beginning to the very end and evaluate as I see it.
00:42:36So if I think of an example, say they did, um, um, triple sow,
00:42:45they're going to do triple toe, double toe. Uh, that's a big one. I'm just pulling this out of
00:42:51the hat. So they did, and they ended up doing triple sow, double toe, double toe. And earlier
00:42:58in the program, they'd already done a double toe. So it's their third double toe. Um, so one of those
00:43:04in the combo is going to get, uh, an asterisk and no value. But as a judge, we just evaluate
00:43:10the whole thing. If they did it really well, it, it gets, um, it's just not getting value for that
00:43:16other jump. So we still, we don't do minus automatically. No, no, no. Okay. Okay.
00:43:22Oh, time violations. I put this one in because, uh, I have had some questions about, um,
00:43:30like when my skater got a time violation, their programs timed okay. What does this mean? Um,
00:43:39so when does, uh, when do we start timing? Yeah. It's from the time of the first movement of the
00:43:47skater to when they stop moving. So it's pretty clear to me when someone starts moving, it's no
00:43:55problem. Even, even this, that's the movement or anything. Anything. Yeah. We start, but we're
00:44:02seeing a lot now where skaters will end their program with a big slide. Often it's a difficult
00:44:09exit from the spin. Exactly. And we are not stopping until that slide sliding movement has
00:44:17stopped. So it is quite dangerous. I've noticed, I've noticed that I'm timing, timing, uh oh,
00:44:28they're over time because of the slide. Because of the slide. It's, it's just not, um, a wise
00:44:35thing to, to risk in my opinion. Either, either, um, time your music a little shorter so that if
00:44:43they are still sliding, they're not going to go over the time or maybe change the way they
00:44:50finish their program. Um, the, the other thing is also when we do those slides,
00:44:55sometimes they fall. Yes. So then you have another fall added on top of it. So, uh, it's just,
00:45:02they're kind of cool. And when they're really well done, but, uh, make sure they're well
00:45:06practiced if that's what you're going to do, or maybe opt for another, um, type of ending. Maybe
00:45:11they're doing a difficult exit and then they, they come up so that they clearly have stopped.
00:45:16They've stopped the movement. I won't tell you what to do, but as a coach, but, uh, just bear
00:45:20that in mind. Okay. Okay. Oh, this is a good one. Yeah. Program time for assessments. So Janice,
00:45:28when you go to, um, do an assessment day, do you time the program while you're, uh, judging,
00:45:35assessing the program? No, like that was way, way, way, way. I'd be really dating myself. I
00:45:40don't think you've ever had a stopwatch at an assessment day. So like when I started judging,
00:45:45yeah, that's what we did. We timed and we did all this stuff, but we don't actually
00:45:49program. We don't actually time them. So I'm, I brought this in because this question, because I
00:45:53do get emails, um, that say my skater wants to try, they want to go to, um, their pre-novice
00:46:02skater. They have their free program and it's three minutes. They want to take their gold so
00:46:08that they can, um, um, uh, compete in, um, novice. Do I have to make, add another 30 seconds to the
00:46:18program? So my answer is this. No, you do not have to at all, but what you do need to make sure you
00:46:25do is meet the requirements for goal. So because there's added, I think there's added jumps and
00:46:32probably an added spin. Honestly, I don't have that in my head what it is, but, um,
00:46:37as long as you can meet those requirements in the three minute program time, then you're, you're fine.
00:46:43So, but if you're pretty, if they're wanting to go to novice and you've already got the
00:46:49novice program worked out, then you would do the longer one, but there is not a re,
00:46:53even, even though it says, I think it says how long it does say how long it has to be in the
00:46:59assessments on the assessment sheet, but we don't time them. And I'm not, um, there, there's nothing
00:47:07anywhere on them that says what happens if it's not the right time. So there's no, don't, don't
00:47:11time. Judges don't, assessors don't time. Um, um, coaches use your pre-novice program if you can get
00:47:19the requirements in, in, it's still, and it fits. Yeah. All right. Uh, spiral sequences. Okay.
00:47:27Oh, wait, I'm still on that slide. Yeah. Oh God. Okay. Spirals. Um, I've had some questions and
00:47:37sometimes when going from a one star level to another, and now all of a sudden they're doing
00:47:41a spiral sequence, um, that doesn't have to have, it has different requirements. So our
00:47:51pre-juvenile spiral sequence, they must have, they don't have to have a forward and a backward.
00:47:57They can, they don't have to. Um, they do not, one of them must be unsupported, right? So one
00:48:06has to be unsupported. Um, the other one doesn't. And also there is a requirement for, um, left foot
00:48:16and right foot. Correct. So just, I think in the past few years, I haven't really given any,
00:48:22I've actually given no value spiral sequences because the, the knee and the free foot are not
00:48:28higher than the hip, but I haven't given them for like, not according to the requirements. So,
00:48:34but just a reminder for that. Very good. And then I just also had a question this fall about, um,
00:48:41uh, a skater wanted to enter star, I think it was star five and pre-juvenile at the same
00:48:50competition. So this is not permitted. Um, you can enter a star and a podium pathway category
00:48:59provided one is star seven or nines, provided it's like the short, short program, but you can't
00:49:06enter two singles free skating events in different, um, strings. Yeah. Whatever you call that. Yeah.
00:49:15So just so for clarification on that. Oh, I have one more. Okay. It's not on the slide. And I have
00:49:21two more. Oh, okay. So sorry. I'm like, yikes. Okay. Um, planned programs. This is for me. It's
00:49:27not a question I get. It's a question I'm going to put out to coaches and parents. If you're
00:49:32watching who do their registration for their, uh, their children, um, there is value in the
00:49:40plan program. You kind of go, why are we doing this? The tag panel uses it to set up what's
00:49:48coming next because our brains are doing spins. We're doing spirals or steps. We're doing jumps.
00:49:55It's very important that we know the order of the elements. And when we don't have that,
00:50:01when we have a blank sheet of paper in front of us, it's a disservice to the, to the skater that
00:50:06you've done them that they haven't, or they've done to themselves if they haven't submitted it,
00:50:10because we don't have that little heads up that takes away some of the, the angst of what's coming.
00:50:18We don't even, even if they've changed a double flip to a double up, that doesn't matter. We just
00:50:24want to know that there's a jump coming. Correct. Yeah. It's very important. Yeah. All right. I
00:50:29have a couple of questions. Okay. All right. All right. I'm going to read the first one out. It's
00:50:33a little long. Well, they've come through today. Okay. Okay. So the first question,
00:50:39I want to clarify the correct GOE reduction in the following situation. Okay. Example,
00:50:45a spin element is not completed because the skater was behind the music.
00:50:51Are we reducing for element missing revolutions and reducing for element completed
00:50:58after the music? I know that we reduce for two separate errors for other elements. Example,
00:51:05a job that is under with an edge call, but this seems to be reducing for the same thing twice.
00:51:11The skater may be cutting the element short to avoid the reduction for not ending the music.
00:51:16As I understand it, we should be taking both reductions if the spin is short revolutions
00:51:21and ending after the music. Is this correct? In my opinion, it is. It's a very risky thing. Now,
00:51:29bear in mind that in a free program, the revolutions per foot don't necessarily apply.
00:51:35So they may still have got all their revolutions for like total of 10. If it's junior, senior,
00:51:40I think it's a total of eight. If it's pre-novice, novice, sorry, I don't have that in front of me.
00:51:44So they may have actually gotten their revolutions, but it's unbalanced on the other foot.
00:51:50But yes, if it's short revolutions, you do have to take it. And then now they're behind
00:51:57their music. So yeah, it's a big one. It's a big one. And the spins, from what I understand,
00:52:03they're really trying to showcase not all spins are plus one to minus one that we're
00:52:10really awarding for the ones that are done really well and for the ones that really aren't,
00:52:14we're really showcasing that. Okay. Another question. We have another one.
00:52:22Can you please clarify that in star three to four combination spin, that both positions
00:52:28must be achieved to receive a silver? So I've done a little homework. Okay. Okay.
00:52:35What it says on our sheet, and I think it's a little gray, it said it must meet the definition
00:52:41of basic position with an S positions achieved with an established center to receive a silver
00:52:49rating. So I believe, yes, it should have both how I read this, basic position positions. So
00:52:56in a combination spin, the requirement is to have multiple positions. Yes. Okay. You know what? I
00:53:04have some more intel on this and I'm going to just check it out and then I'll do some kind of
00:53:10clarification. Okay. Perfect. Thank you for the question. I believe the answer is correct, but I
00:53:15have something else in mind. Okay. Okay. Is that it? That's it. Okay. So now like for those of
00:53:22you who want to know about levels, et cetera, this is the next part and we're almost done,
00:53:26but we'll go quickly. I think we can go through this. Yeah, yeah, we will. Okay. So most of the
00:53:32changes for levels are to do with spins and this is the major change that everybody must be aware
00:53:38of and I hope you are as that in any spin, only two difficult variations are counted for the level
00:53:45features. So this is a difference. You have to understand that difficult variation are those
00:53:52things like camel up, camel side, camel forward, sit side, sit forward, sit back. Those are the
00:53:58DVs, the difficult variations, and we're only going to count two of them in one spin. The other
00:54:03things that counted are the other features such as eight revolutions in a position or
00:54:13increase of speed. Yes. So those are the other features. So the counted DVs don't have to be
00:54:20the first. So read the example for me, Hilary. Okay. So if I do a difficult entrance into a
00:54:27camel, sit forward, difficult variation with a change of edge, change foot to a sit behind
00:54:34difficult variation and an upright straight difficult variation. Okay. So you take the
00:54:41difficult entrance and the change of edge for the first foot. You're not going to take that first DV
00:54:48and then use the two DVs on the second foot and you'll get a level four.
00:54:55And what the coach needs to remember when crafting the spins is that all those DVs attempted
00:55:03are now used for future spins. So even though we didn't count it, it was a sit forward DV,
00:55:12it's done. If we see another sit forward, it's used and we won't count it. Yeah. Even though it
00:55:19didn't get counted. Does that make sense? Yeah. And this is interesting. For a feature to count,
00:55:27it must not be together with a used difficult variation position.
00:55:32Okay. I think I have a video, right? Yeah. Okay. So you can put up that slide first if you want.
00:55:41So these ones cannot be used with a used DV. So just have a quick read of them. I'm not going to
00:55:47go through them all. And by the way, this PowerPoint will be put on the website later. Okay. So let's
00:55:54look at this video and let's assume that this skater has already done a camel forward. So she's,
00:56:03do it again, please, Hillary. She's doing a sit forward and she does this great difficult
00:56:13change of variation in using the camel forward position. So there it would be a level three.
00:56:23However, if she'd done a camel forward position previously, it won't count, but also the change
00:56:32of position doesn't count. So then all she gets is a sit forward. So basically if you're using a
00:56:38used DV with another feature, so say she'd done it with a change of edge feature as well, and
00:56:44she'd already done that difficult variation, neither one counts. Okay. So it's making it a
00:56:52little bit harder to get your level fours. Yes. That's why I showed that slide earlier about
00:56:56nothing wrong with a good level three, if you've got a good GOE. Exactly. Okay. Now next we're going
00:57:03to talk about the windmill. So this is for singles and pairs, and it cannot be used for a difficult
00:57:10entrance or exit. Exception is when you're holding the blade in an exit. Right. So no more difficult
00:57:20entry with a windmill, period. Won't count. And if you're holding the blade in the exit,
00:57:27then it does count. But if you've done it... Can't touch the ice. No, no. But also if you've done it
00:57:35now as a difficult exit and you've been holding your blade, you cannot then use it as a
00:57:42difficult, like in a non-basic, you can't use it, and you can't use it as a difficult
00:57:49change or anything like that if you've already used the windmill. So only once in a program,
00:57:53like that's okay. And then you can't touch the ice if you're doing it in the exit.
00:58:00In the exit. Yeah. And what else did it say there? Blah, blah, blah, blah. Can be used...
00:58:07All right. It's all right. I think you said that. Yeah, I said it all. So let's look at this video.
00:58:11She's doing a side-to-back layback, upright layback, upright Beelman, and a lovely windmill
00:58:19out. Nice spin. Unfortunately, in this one, she touched the ice with her hand. So this is from
00:58:24last season. That little rule wasn't in, but supposing she didn't touch the ice with her
00:58:29hand, then it would be a very nice level four layback spin. So that's because she's holding
00:58:36her blade. Okay. Now, keeping in the vein of difficult entrance and exit. So it must be
00:58:42executed in two different spins. Two different spins. And different nature spins. The movements
00:58:49must be different. Yes. And yeah, and I don't think that's new. It's just a reminder. Also,
00:58:56in the combination spin exits, they can be started from any position, but if it's a spin in one
00:59:02position where you're doing a difficult exit, it must be started from the basic position.
00:59:06Okay. And that's not new information. It's just... And okay. Now, this is new.
00:59:14This is new. Yeah. So similar variations in basic and non-basic. It's executed on different feet.
00:59:22It is allowed. It's allowed. So now the tech panel, if you're a tech panel watching,
00:59:26I think we all know this now, but we have to really keep track of what foot they're doing
00:59:32all these things on. We never used to have to do that. So we have to do lefts and rights and
00:59:37ups and downs and all sorts of things. So, and then again, if they're too similar in the second
00:59:43position won't be awarded, but will it be considered used? The second position won't
00:59:51be awarded yet still considered used. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So basically anytime you've
01:00:02done a used thing, don't do it. You can do it again, but it won't get counted. And if it's done
01:00:08with a feature that you wanted to also get, it won't get that feature either. So
01:00:13a change to the increase of speed, this is allowed now to get it from going
01:00:20from side to back as well as, or back to side. Yes. So it just wasn't specified before. So.
01:00:31And I like, we've seen some creative increases of speed lately.
01:00:35We have, yes. So on that layback one though, just remember they can come up in between,
01:00:42and that would be the same for even just getting a side to back difficult variation. Sometimes
01:00:51they don't get it because the shoulders never really, they're down in this side and then they
01:00:56go back, but their shoulders are still up. So that's sometimes why you don't get the side to
01:01:00back variation awarded because they haven't actually changed the, they haven't actually
01:01:06gone back with both shoulders. So we do have one new item this year, which is the difficult
01:01:14blade feature for singles and pairs. I've seen some really creative ones and I've seen some
01:01:20not so creative ones. So this is where you use the blade in a way that has a significant impact
01:01:26on the balance control and execution of the spin example, spinning on the toe or heel of the blades.
01:01:34And it must be in a camel sit or a layback. And the key it has for the tech panel to be
01:01:40clearly identifiable and visible. But what's different here on this,
01:01:46if we combine it with another feature, like with a difficult exit, they'll just count the
01:01:53exit and they won't count the blades. So you can use it somewhere else. It's a bit weird.
01:01:58To me, that's like counterintuitive to all the other rules, but whatever, there it is.
01:02:01And no requirement for the length. No requirements for its length. So you just
01:02:04have to do this feature and we'll count it if it's, we decided that it significantly impacted
01:02:12the balance control and execution of the spin. Very good.
01:02:15Okay. Final slide, I think. Is it? The reminder for level four spins. So a spin
01:02:21must include one of these features to receive level four. This came into effect last season,
01:02:25but we wanted to just make sure that there was a reminder here. You can see them all listed.
01:02:33Right. And they are in the technical panel handbook. And basically you have to have that
01:02:39mandatory feature. Otherwise it's level three. So yeah. So I think we're done.
01:02:46We did good. So we've got... Any more questions on your little phone?
01:02:50No phone? No, no.
01:02:51So Janice, this is a reminder that you always like to show people.
01:02:54I always like to wind up with this, whether you're a judge, whether you're a coach, honestly,
01:03:00whether you're a parent or a employer, whatever, I just think we need to strive to be half full
01:03:07people versus half empty people. So we do that. We try and do that with our marking, for judging,
01:03:13find the good stuff and then do your reductions. Don't just go to the reductions and forget about
01:03:18the good stuff. Half full, half empty. We are half full people. Doesn't matter what's in our
01:03:26glass. I guess we all have different things in our glass. And that's it.
01:03:31That's it. Thank you all. And thank you, Janice. I know that being the technical chair, you field
01:03:38a lot of questions, you help out all of our coaches and our skaters, and it's really appreciated.
01:03:45And we encourage people to send you emails if you do have a question or want a clarification.
01:03:52We want skating to be as transparent as possible, people to have the answers that they want. We want
01:03:57everyone to feel success and enjoy the sport as much as they can. So we're here to help.
01:04:04Great. Thanks, Hilary. Thanks for being my tag team. It's always good to have a tag team.
01:04:08And this presentation will be archived at some point, and then I will take the PowerPoint and
01:04:15make it into just a PDF of the different slides. And that will also be posted on the website.
01:04:23Again, if there's anything in this that gives you pause and maybe think,
01:04:28are you sure you got that right? Please connect with me because don't always get it right. Believe
01:04:33me. And thank you to our team that you don't see here, to Steve Muff, Jesse Snerdy, and Danielle
01:04:40Williams for your support and bringing this live stream to you today. Great. Okay. Thank you. Have
01:04:46a great day. Enjoy the rain.