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00:00Well let's get some analysis on this story now from Richard Verli. He is the
00:04France and Europe correspondent for the Swiss newspaper Blick. It's good to have
00:09you on the program Richard. So we have now seen Barnier's full cabinet and he
00:15picked centrist and right-wing ministers mostly. There's only one left-wing
00:20minister on his cabinet but he promised to work with the left. How did we get
00:24here? I think for Barnier it's a failure in the sense that he would have clearly
00:31preferred a national unity government. He wanted to attract some figure for the
00:36left but they refused. So as you say he's got only one in his cabinet, the new
00:41Minister of Justice Didier Migaud, who was formerly a parliamentary from the
00:46Socialist Party but who had distanced himself for quite a while with this
00:51political party. Now we're going to see what Barnier will do. We've got to give
00:56him the chance to prove that he is not a rightist Prime Minister but when we
01:01look at the names that you just mentioned, especially the name of the new
01:05Minister of Interior Bruno Retailleur, we may have some doubt because Retailleur is a
01:10clearly right-winger, especially on immigration, and we can expect from this
01:15Barnier government a very harsh stance on immigrants. And we've also had some
01:21reaction from parts of the left. Socialist Party chairman Olivier Faux has
01:26called the cabinet a government that gives democracy the finger. Give us your
01:31thoughts on that. Well I do not share completely the opinion of Olivier Faux.
01:37For sure the left bloc with 193 members of parliament among 577 has won the
01:47election but it has won with a very narrow margin and after all what is
01:52important in the National Assembly is if you can form a coalition or not and the
01:57left refused to form a coalition with the centre. They wanted their own Prime
02:02Minister to be nominated, Madame Lucie Castet, and President Macron made it
02:06clear that he didn't want to associate La France Insoumise, the radical left, in
02:11any government. So I would say responsibilities are shared. On the one
02:16end, yes, this government doesn't reflect the result of the election. It doesn't
02:21reflect the fact that a large number of French voters have opted for the
02:25national rally, the extreme right or the left bloc, but on the other hand part of
02:32the left who could have been associated in a government just refused. And how do
02:36you think the balance of power is likely to be like now in the National Assembly?
02:42Talk us through what it's going to look like now. Well we will have a very soon a
02:46test and it will be a crucial test as the budget is concerned. France is in
02:51difficulty, financial difficulty, the public deficit is rising, public
02:56debt is growing. So Prime Minister Michel Barnier will have to first of all get a
03:03budget voted. And you could see in the appointment he made, he decided to have
03:08the minister in charge of budget directly under his authority, which is a
03:14clear sign. So we will see if Barnier can win this budget battle. If he managed to
03:19do so, then he will start on a better track than right now. We will have to see
03:24what he can get in terms of compromise with the left, maybe with that part of
03:30the left who refuse to participate in the government, but who may decide to
03:35abstain and not to decide to vote a censorship motion, which will lead Barnier
03:40to resign.
03:42And talk us through what other challenges Barnier has. You've laid out the fact
03:46that he does need to get a budget through. Talk us through what else he
03:50needs to overcome now.
03:52Well, I would say he's got three challenges, and all of them will be
03:56difficult. The first challenge is to establish a new relationship with
04:00Emmanuel Macron. You know, in France, the president is the supreme authority.
04:05But Emmanuel Macron at the moment is a minority president, and a large part of
04:10the population don't trust him anymore. So Barnier has to prove that he's an
04:14independent prime minister, or at least that he has an autonomy to govern, that
04:19he's not Macron's creature. That's the first challenge. Second challenge is the
04:25budget, as I say, because behind the budget, you've got public services,
04:29you've got purchasing power. A lot of French people consider that their public
04:34services are degrading. They want more money, more income, and that will bring
04:39the issue of taxes. Barnier will have to raise tax. And as you guessed, this is
04:43quite unpopular. And we'll see how he applies those taxes. He wants to tax the
04:48rich. Let's see what he will do. And the third challenge will be on the
04:53international front. Nominating Jean-Noël Barraud as Minister of Foreign Affairs is
04:58quite a challenge. He's an unknown entity. He's someone who is talented, but he'll
05:04have to work with Emmanuel Macron. They will fly together as soon as Monday for
05:08the UN General Assembly. And put yourself in the shoes of foreign government. They
05:13have seen since 2022, three foreign ministers, Catherine Colonnaud and
05:19Stéphane Séjourné, then now Jean-Noël Barraud. It's time to get stable if France
05:24wants to have a voice on the international scene.
05:27So that's what's next for Barnier. Tell us what's next for the left and people that
05:32voted for the left in July's parliamentary elections.
05:36Well, the left as a bloc is in a difficult position, though they can claim
05:41that there is a kind of democratic denial, which may be true in a way. Still, they
05:47have to decide whether they want to remain united, all part of the left, the
05:51socialists, La France Insoumise, Jean-Luc Mélenchon, the green and the
05:55communists, or whether part of this coalition, I would say, show some
06:00willingness to compromise. And because of the need for France to advance, decide to
06:06abstain or eventually even to vote in favor of this Barnier government. At the
06:11moment, I doubt it. I think the left has made the choice of its own political
06:15objective, the town election, regional election coming in 2025, then the
06:21presidential election in 2027. But by doing so, it may disappoint a lot of voters
06:29from the center left who are pragmatic and do not want the left to be only a
06:34protest kind of movement, a protest bloc. But they would like also to see, for
06:40example, the socialists, the social democrats, to come back and accept
06:45somewhat to govern or to compromise.
06:48Richard, thank you so much for talking us through the situation here, the
06:52political situation here in France. We really appreciate your thoughts. That's
06:55Richard Verli, the France and Europe correspondent for the Swiss newspaper
07:00Blick. Thank you so much.