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"Agar Apke Pas Documents Hi Nahi,To Itne sare Senators ko... Barrister Ali Zafar Raise Big Question
#barristeralizafar
"Agar Apke Pas Documents Hi Nahi,To Itne sare Senators ko... Barrister Ali Zafar Raise Big Question
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00:00We need a greater consensus, and in this greater consensus Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf is included.
00:09Has the government or Maulana Sahab contacted you for greater consensus?
00:14Has Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf contacted you for greater consensus?
00:17Has Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf contacted you for greater consensus?
00:19Has Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf contacted you for greater consensus?
00:24As far as I know, Maulana Sahab and his legal team are working on a draft.
00:33We have not been consulted, nor has a draft been shared with us.
00:38But Maulana Sahab did say that when we make it, we will share it with everyone.
00:49So it is possible that when they make the draft, we will be shown it.
00:53But as of now, we have not been consulted.
00:56The PTI's position on this is very clear,
00:59and that is that we have rejected more than 80 drafts of this package as a whole.
01:10And we have said that if you want to bring a draft,
01:14and that draft is for the betterment of the nation,
01:17it is a draft to improve the constitution,
01:20it is a draft to strengthen the constitution,
01:23it is a draft to improve the independence of the judiciary,
01:28then we will make a committee on it,
01:31and we will make its TORs,
01:32and we will give our suggestions on it,
01:34and we will give others as well.
01:35And then we will run its process,
01:37just like the 18th draft and the 19th draft.
01:41So honestly, there is a lot of objection on being in the limbo of reform,
01:47but moving forward,
01:50will you be able to have a consensus on this,
01:54that a separate legal court should be made?
01:57Because Maulana Sahab, even today while talking,
01:59has endorsed that it was a part of the Charter of Democracy,
02:02this separate legal court,
02:04and all the Jamaats have consensused with the Charter of Democracy,
02:08including Pakistan Tehreek-e-Ansar.
02:12Look, if you debate on the constitutional court,
02:18it has its advantages and disadvantages as well.
02:21You have to see whether it has more advantages or disadvantages,
02:26and then on which side there is more weight,
02:29you have to decide that.
02:30So are the advantages more, or are the disadvantages more?
02:34In my opinion, at this time, its disadvantages are more,
02:38and the disadvantages are so serious at this time,
02:42that it will completely finish your legal court.
02:45So will this disadvantage be reduced after 45 days?
02:50Is it okay after 45 days?
02:52I think you will have to do its process slowly.
02:56In stage 1, if you want to bring any amendment,
02:59then in my opinion, you should bring this amendment,
03:01that the constitutional cases,
03:04which the government wants to go to the constitutional court,
03:09those cases, the constitutional cases, the legal cases,
03:12should be made in a special constitutional bench in the Supreme Court.
03:17For example, it should be said that the first 5 judges of the Supreme Court
03:21will listen to the legal cases,
03:24and they will decide on the legal cases.
03:27So in a way, you will have a legal bench in the Supreme Court.
03:31But there is no separate legal court, right, Mr. Bairsta?
03:34In the Charter of Democracy, there is a separate legal court.
03:38You asked me to do it stage-wise.
03:42First do this experiment and see.
03:44And if it is successful, and if you need it after that,
03:48then you can do more tweaking in it, make changes in it.
03:52And eventually, if you feel that after 2-3 years,
03:57there is a need for a separate legal court,
03:59then you can talk about that too.
04:01But to suddenly decide that we will cut the Supreme Court
04:06and make a separate legal court,
04:08this will make the system completely unstable.
04:10So let me be the devil's advocate, Mr. Bairsta.
04:13They say that the system will not be unstable,
04:16the system will be better.
04:18Because the Supreme Court, in which those cases
04:22which are taken by the judiciary,
04:24which used to come in numbers later,
04:25Mr. Arnab said the same about the practice and procedure rules,
04:28about the act.
04:30He was also saying about the practice and procedure act
04:33that the number of cases that will come,
04:35that number will be by number.
04:37That is, it will be a first-in-first-out situation.
04:40In the same way, they say that the cases of the public are not heard.
04:43The cases of Khawas come immediately.
04:46So this is segregation.
04:48The Supreme Court should not be cut down.
04:50If I take their perspective.
04:52Okay, there is no harm in that.
04:54If they want the cases of the public to be heard
04:58and the cases of the public not to be heard,
05:01or the cases of the public to be heard by someone else,
05:03then for that, what I have suggested,
05:05it is a reasonable suggestion
05:07that you make special benches in the Supreme Court.
05:10Some ordinary cases should be heard.
05:13The judges should not hear the cases of the public.
05:15Some cases should be heard.
05:17And some cases should not be heard.
05:20In that, you do not need to make a court.
05:23There will be no expense.
05:25There will be no tension.
05:27So this is the method.
05:29So this suggestion that you have given, Mr. Barrister,
05:32has it been discussed in the committee?
05:34The National Assembly and the Parliamentary Committee of the Senators?
05:39That was a joke in my opinion.
05:43Okay.
05:44So you make a committee.
05:46Supposing I want to talk to you about a document.
05:50And I say that the document is in my mind.
05:53I don't want to show you the document.
05:55But you come to it and have a meeting with me.
05:58So your first question with me will be
06:00that show me the document.
06:03Let me see what it is.
06:05Before I talk to you,
06:07I cannot have a discussion in the air.
06:10That was exactly the position in the meeting.
06:12No one had that document.
06:14Mr. Bilawal of the People's Party was sitting.
06:17He said that a draft was shown to me.
06:20I said in that draft that these things should be removed.
06:23But I don't know if they have been removed or not.
06:25Mr. Mulana said that I have never seen the draft.
06:29Mr. Mulana's lawyer, Senator Murtaza,
06:33he said that a draft was shown to me.
06:35There were many things in it that cannot be acceptable.
06:40There was also the Army Act.
06:42After listening to all this, the law minister said,
06:46although we were not shown the draft,
06:48but the law minister said after listening to the discussion
06:51that actually I cannot share the draft with you.
06:54Because until the cabinet approves it,
06:57how can I share the draft with you?
06:59Until then it will not remain a document.
07:00It will be a working paper.
07:02Yes.
07:03It came to my mind that
07:07there is no document here.
07:09There is no paper here.
07:11There is no piece of paper here.
07:13So, what are we here to discuss?
07:15I have come to such a strange meeting.
07:17Did you say this to the minister?
07:20I did not say this.
07:21When I got the opportunity,
07:24I gave a general statement on this.
07:27But later I thought that if you do not have a document,
07:32if you say that you do not want to approve it,
07:35then why have you kept so many MNAs,
07:37so many senators in prison for two days?