Convicting.a.Murderer.s01e03 (Avery's Niece)

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Transcript

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01:10Kayla Avery is Candy and Earl Avery's biological daughter,

01:19Marie's half-sister.

01:21In 2004, Kayla tells Candy, her mother,

01:25about some inappropriate touching.

01:28Stephen tried to touch her chest or something along those lines.

01:33Stephen one time pushed Kayla up against the wall

01:39and I guess he was touching her breast

01:43and trying to give her a kiss

01:45and Kayla got upset with him about it

01:48and I told him that that is not allowed,

01:51that that is his niece

01:53and if I ever hear about it again, that I will be turning him in.

02:01But that was before, I do believe that was before the Marie incident.

02:07And they want me to go up and testify to,

02:10tell them what Uncle Stephen had done all to me.

02:13Yeah.

02:15They want me to do that too.

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03:33I am definitely not a person that anyone would describe

03:37as trigger-friendly when it comes to blankets,

03:40believing all women when they make allegations.

03:43Definitely not something that my name would be associated with.

03:46But what I will say is that when it comes to Stephen Avery,

03:49what I am looking at is concrete evidence

03:51that he has an established pattern of behavior.

03:54And when it comes to this particular scenario,

03:56we are talking about a minor.

04:01Do me a favor, say and spell your name, please.

04:04Earl Avery.

04:07E-A-R-L-A-V-E-R-Y.

04:15I didn't have a very good childhood.

04:18I was burned when I was seven years old.

04:22Then I was in the hospital.

04:24Then I went back to school, and then the kids picked on me

04:27because I had scars all over the place.

04:34Yes.

04:36Yeah, I kind of dropped out of school

04:38because my dad wasn't feeling good,

04:40and he was working two jobs, and I've been there ever since.

04:43I'm the youngest.

04:45Then it goes to Barbara, my sister.

04:48Then it goes Steve, and then it goes Chuck is the oldest.

04:52I don't know their ages.

04:54I don't know.

04:56All I know is they're older than me.

04:59I was married to Earl for 22 years.

05:03There's my beautiful wife, hanging clothes.

05:09We met when I think I was like 17.

05:13We were together for about eight months,

05:16and then he asked if I wanted to get married,

05:19and then we had 2 kids,

05:22and he adopted my oldest, Marie,

05:25after being married for a year.

05:30The Avery family are all together.

05:33They're like one group.

05:35They have their own way,

05:37and their ways are set to the way they want it to be.

05:41They did what they wanted to do,

05:44and a lot of times it was like behind doors.

05:57When Stephen was exonerated,

06:00Stephen and Marie just started hanging out together.

06:03This was before he met Jodi,

06:05and the way Stephen described it was very innocent.

06:08It seemed like he was just being a good uncle.

06:11So you can just kind of imagine

06:12what the dynamics of that relationship would look like.

06:14A 17-year-old young girl with a 43-year-old man.

06:17What do you think you're looking at?

06:27They went up north a couple times,

06:29what I didn't think was really a big deal.

06:32Well, then my youngest daughter, Brittany,

06:36come down with some pictures of Marie,

06:39and there were pictures of Stephen

06:41pouring alcohol down her throat

06:43and writing on her chest, Stephen.

07:10I know I've seen one or two of them,

07:14with her laying there with her sport bra or whatever on

07:18and a magic marker all over her.

07:20Some of the pictures were, her arms were pinned behind her head,

07:25and I asked her about it, and she says,

07:28we're just horsing around.

07:30I said, Marie, come on, this is not horsing around.

07:39I've been fishing with him a lot.

07:45When he got out, he thought he was bulletproof.

07:47Nobody could touch him, nobody could do anything.

07:50So he could get away with this, he could get away with that.

07:53He always said that, you know.

07:55I'm going to do what I want now.

07:57I had enough people tell me what to do.

07:59He could do anything he wanted to do.

08:01They gave him power,

08:03and it's not good for an aviary to have power.

08:08I ain't got to listen to nobody.

08:11I listened to motherfuckers for over 18 years.

08:13I ain't got to listen no more.

08:16I don't give a fuck about anything.

08:18I come first.

08:20He got to the point that he had it in his head

08:23that he was untouchable.

08:25He always talked about his money.

08:27He'd always promise everybody.

08:29Everybody he'd promise, oh, I'm going to build you a house,

08:31I'm going to give you money, you do this, you do that.

08:35But at one time, he told me to help him fix his car, you know.

08:40He said that later on, when he gets his money,

08:43that he was going to buy me a car.

08:46Look at Brendan, how many times he told my girls

08:49to be quiet when he would go see Marie, wherever.

08:53Yeah.

08:54Look at the time that he showed up at Stocksville.

08:56Yeah.

08:57Telling Brittany, oh, you don't say nothing,

08:59I'll buy you a four-wheeler or whatever.

09:01Yeah.

09:03There was one time me and my sisters went to Fox Hills,

09:08and we were there swimming.

09:11Turned around, Stephen came walking through.

09:14I'm like, well, what are you doing here?

09:17And he wouldn't really respond.

09:19He's like, but you can't tell your parents that I came here.

09:22I'm like, okay, why would my parents care?

09:25But I didn't know that there was anything going on.

09:28It was very hide-everything at that time.

09:33In 2004, he started dating Jody

09:36and ends up moving in with her.

09:49You know, it was very much portrayed

09:52as this lovey-dovey relationship,

09:54and it very well may have been at times,

09:56but also I think there was some rockiness to that relationship

09:59that wasn't portrayed in the film.

10:22Jody hears more and more about Marie,

10:24and there's definitely some tension in between Jody and Stephen.

10:48He said it was over, but she wouldn't leave him alone.

10:53She just got right in his web and got addicted.

10:56I mean, she was young, you know, and he was...

11:00To her, he was famous,

11:02and she probably wanted a part of that.

11:05He promised her a lot of things, fame and fortune, put it that way.

11:10Stephen told Marie that they could have a relationship

11:14because she was not born in the family.

11:23When we found out, and then we told her,

11:27and she got all mad at us, you know,

11:30because she was obsessed with Stephen.

11:33So it was hard to talk to her.

11:36Stephen made Marie feel special.

11:38I think that's probably the simplest way to put it.

11:40He promised her things. He took her to special places.

11:43She's probably looking at him as someone who can give her guidance,

11:46plus there's the added benefit that he's a celebrity, right?

11:49He's a hometown celebrity. He was falsely accused of a crime.

11:53There's no way the power dynamics in that relationship were even.

11:57Fall of 2004, Calumet spoke to the family.

12:02Marie really wasn't admitting that he had ever done anything inappropriate.

12:07They knew there was possibly something to it,

12:09but she wouldn't actually admit it until January 27th of 2006.

12:15A story popped up about the Brown County D.A.

12:19reviewing a sexual assault allegation against Stephen Avery.

12:24As part of the ongoing Halbach investigation,

12:27some new information allowed this particular investigation

12:31to get to the point where it may be ripe for review and potential charges.

12:37He said, look, we got this referral.

12:39Apparently the victim wasn't cooperating last year, but now she is.

12:44CBS 5's Anjanette Levy joins us with more on this allegation, Anjanette.

12:48Well, Shelly, authorities aren't really saying much about it at this point

12:51because it's simply an allegation. No criminal charges have been filed.

12:55What we do know is in August of 2004, authorities in Manitowoc County

12:59received a sexual assault complaint against Stephen Avery.

13:02Now, due to that $36 million lawsuit Avery has pending against the county,

13:07the investigation was turned over to Calumet County to avoid any conflict of interest.

13:12You know, I was in there typing up a story for 10 o'clock, getting ready to voice it,

13:16and I get paged over the intercom that Stephen Avery's on the phone.

13:20You know, get in here.

13:43Well, she even asked, why would they bring that up now instead of when it happened?

13:50You know, how come they're bringing it up again with Marie?

13:55Avery denies having any sexual contact with this female,

13:58but he did admit to physically touching her.

14:01So you wrestled around with her?

14:03Yeah.

14:04And I said, do you always roughhouse with your female family members?

14:10And he said yes, so.

14:18Eventually there was just enough chatter from multiple sources

14:21about this inappropriate relationship between Stephen and Marie,

14:24so investigator Wendy Baldwin interviewed Marie to hear her side of the story

14:27to see if there was any veracity in these claims.

14:31Was it last year or the year before?

14:39And in that conversation, Marie did admit that Stephen

14:44had forced her to have sex with him against her will.

14:51Did you know about Stephen and Marie having sex?

14:55Well, I heard that they were doing stuff.

14:58What do you hear that from?

15:02From her.

15:05Marie said I raped her.

15:07You're kidding.

15:08No.

15:09Her statement. I raped her over by Barbara's house.

15:25She said, stop talking about this guy.

15:29I was like, I don't want to go in the boy's room.

15:32I don't know, boy's thing.

15:40I don't know, he would push me down on his bed and he'd help my arms out.

15:44And did he push you down on the bed?

15:46I don't know.

15:47Yeah.

15:51She said I forced her on the bed.

15:54About that, of course.

15:56Who?

15:59What were you telling him?

16:01I told him to stop because he doesn't belong in this

16:04and he was just in prison for that and I didn't do it.

16:08So why would he try to do something?

16:10Did that make him more of a man?

16:12Sort of. He just laughed.

16:14I was like, it's not funny.

16:18I kept on telling him no and he was just...

16:20When I was trying to get up the hallway, he would spread my legs with his elbows.

16:27Can you please describe what happened?

16:29First, he would put his hands on my pants.

16:34Like, touching them down.

16:36I'm like, dropped my arms over his hands, open underneath it.

16:40And he just...

16:43I don't know.

16:44He just went back out.

16:50I don't know what he did.

16:53I don't know.

16:59It's extremely difficult to listen to.

17:01Just hearing her say something as innocent as,

17:04boys stink, and then she goes on to describe this

17:08really uncomfortable, horrible violation that took place.

17:13I don't know anybody that could listen to that.

17:15Especially knowing that that's a minor and not feel horrible.

17:20So, I'm guilty, huh?

17:22Who?

17:23Me.

17:24What?

17:25Raping your daughter.

17:26When did she say that?

17:27She told the cops that.

17:28At an interview.

17:29Oh, she did?

17:30Yes, she did.

17:31Did he penetrate you?

17:34What's that mean?

17:36Did he have sexual intercourse with you?

17:39That's what I heard.

17:40And I told him to get off me.

17:42Now he's hurting me really bad.

17:46Did he stop?

17:47No.

17:49He's back around the corner, I think.

17:51So, why don't you do something with it then?

17:53I did.

17:54What?

17:55I stopped it.

17:56Well, you should have stopped it a long time ago then.

17:58Now, it's too far now.

18:00I'm probably going to charge him now.

18:02He sounds anxious.

18:04It's almost as if he knows that there's something that could be discovered.

18:09He's not pressing charges.

18:12She still said it. I raped her.

18:14She don't want nothing done.

18:16She wants a drug.

18:17She wants a drug.

18:18She wants a drug.

18:20It almost sounds like Earl is trying to reassure Stephen that Marie isn't going to say anything.

18:26And she told everybody I didn't do nothing.

18:30That's why I need them letters.

18:33What?

18:34What does she got a crush on me?

18:35She loves me.

18:37That's why I kept them.

18:40I told him that if I didn't do something that he wanted me to do, that he should not do something.

18:47That scared me.

18:49He's pretty scared of me now.

18:52All I know is that she's scared of you.

18:54But she don't want nothing to do with you.

18:56Right.

18:57He told me he would kill himself by running into a car on I-43.

19:05I-43.

19:06He told me that he would take me with him so that we could die together.

19:11Now what the hell would she be scared of me for?

19:14Huh?

19:15I don't know.

19:16Yeah.

19:17Your goddamn wife.

19:18What if my wife doesn't do it? I don't think my wife doesn't do it.

19:21She always talks bad about me.

19:23Why keep on picking on me?

19:24Who is?

19:25Everybody.

19:27Stephen really does have a classic victim mentality.

19:31Even when he is being the aggressor, he always points to what's being done wrong to him.

19:36In this particular scenario, he's upset because Candy is speaking badly about him

19:41and he believes that she's influencing Marie to be afraid of him.

19:44It's never anything that he's done.

19:46It's never anything that he's said.

19:48It's always everybody else.

20:02You don't believe me, do you?

20:04I know I do.

20:06At the beginning, she'd run after him all the time.

20:08Yeah.

20:09I was beating her all over.

20:12But before I was leaving because I didn't, because I was around him so much.

20:17And then...

20:18How many times did you push that gun on me?

20:20Just once.

20:21And that's when I stayed, I stayed away.

20:25Despite all of the horrible testimony and information about what Stephen did to Marie,

20:30people somehow still managed to see a world in which, of course, he was the victim.

20:38I find that interesting.

20:40That the timing is so perfect that Marie is coming forth and they're investigating

20:45if Stephen is being charged with statutory rape or not.

20:49So for Truthers, instead of the most logical explanation that Marie was actually raped,

20:54it's more believable to imply that Investigator Baldwin coerced Marie to make up stuff about Stephen.

21:04It turns out that it was more of a consensual relationship.

21:09So he is 42, 43 years old at the time, allegedly having sex or raping a 17-year-old.

21:17And with the online community, it's all Marie recanted, Marie lied.

21:23I've seen excuses for it.

21:25I've seen people say, well, you know, in XX country, you don't have to be 18 to give consent.

21:31It doesn't matter what age she was, if it isn't consensual.

21:49You went with her to see the DA?

21:51Mm-hmm.

21:52Nothing, nothing happened.

21:56Unless he would get out or something, they said to her that they would prosecute him for that or whatever.

22:01Stephen Avery was now facing the trial for the Teresa Halbach murder.

22:06If he got convicted for that, he was going to be in prison for a long time anyway, so there was no need to pursue it.

22:12I think it's just sitting on the side yet.

22:14So if he would ever get out of prison, then they have the rights to bring it back in.

22:20I don't know for sure what's going on with that, so it's just sitting there.

22:26I ain't, I'll say right out, I ain't no angel either.

22:30I had problems and everything, but I took care of them.

22:34My dad, he did have a hard life, he did.

22:39And I understand with the things that he did back then.

22:44He was a heavy drinker, but he changed all that.

22:48How did you deal with your problems?

22:51Just faced them. Face to face, faced them, yes.

22:56And to get through it with counseling and everything else.

23:01I had three years, six years of counseling.

23:04But I got through it. I mean, I was pretty rough.

23:08But my kids, they stuck by me and helped me out.

23:12I don't understand how, but after the divorce,

23:16he did turn into a lot better dad.

23:20I don't know, he's more there, he's more caring, he's more everything.

23:28So now, you know, we've gotten to this point,

23:30and you said now the controlling, the emotional and physical abuse starts.

23:35Yeah, it's always over Marie.

23:46Jodi, I can get you out of this.

23:48She's like, well, I don't want to do that because it'll hurt me.

23:51Every time she would drink, my uncle would get mad and hit her and stuff.

23:56What Jodi, what I have witnessed is, there was one time up north,

24:01he was beating her up outside of the camper.

24:06They don't know nothing.

24:07They knew about you hitting me.

24:10They knew about it.

24:12I never told them that.

24:14Well, if you never told them that, I'd never hit you.

24:16It's got to come from you, it can't come from somebody else.

24:20Jodi was drinking and she wasn't supposed to be drinking, you know,

24:23around the fire up north.

24:25And here comes Steve over, walking over.

24:28Grabs her by the back of the hair and drags her.

24:32Drags her all the way around the damn corner on the road.

24:43Like, there's no turning him back the other way,

24:46telling him that he can't do it because he's in his face.

24:49Telling him he can do whatever he wants because he's not in that car anymore.

24:53That he doesn't need to listen to anyone anymore.

24:58We're all kind of drunk and we're kind of scared of him, you know.

25:02So we didn't bother it.

25:05But yeah, that was something else.

25:08What'd you say?

25:10I said, I don't remember that happening.

25:13Phone calls between Steven and Jodi, they're very telling.

25:44But no, you don't think.

25:47First and foremost, he tells her to lie about where the bruises came from.

25:51And we can clearly hear that he's manipulating her by saying things like,

25:54you don't really care about me.

25:57That's why I don't think you care for me.

26:00Yeah, well, I do.

26:01You do.

26:03Then why don't you deny everything?

26:06Huh?

26:08Hey.

26:09Hey.

26:10I don't know what I'm doing.

26:13I thought I was doing good.

26:15All you have to do is deny everything.

26:18There's no reason why you can't say you were drunk, you were drinking,

26:21you fell down, got the bruises.

26:24I am a good liar. I can't pick up lies like that.

26:27Well.

26:29Think of me instead of this Jew.

26:33And over and over again we're just seeing this pattern of the way that he treats women.

26:37He is always domineering.

26:40Just like to be in charge. He always does.

26:44He still does to this day.

26:47Sometimes Joey would say that he didn't want to do what he wanted to do to her.

26:57So he was pissed off at her.

27:05Okay. What else?

27:08And sometimes he would, like, try to grab her and touch her and that.

27:23When they were just watching TV and that.

27:25What else?

27:29What else?

27:34Sometimes he would hit her and that.

27:38Did he tell you that?

27:45Well, sometimes I've seen it.

27:49I know I'm jumping around here a little.

27:51Did he put limits on who you could see, talk to?

27:54Yes, he did.

27:56I don't want her around you or her.

27:58Or Candy or anybody in there.

28:00Gonna let her do what she wants to do.

28:03Gonna do what I let her do.

28:04No, she ain't gonna do.

28:06She ain't gonna do it. You ain't her boss.

28:09You ain't got no control over her.

28:12I got control.

28:14You couldn't see anybody?

28:16I couldn't see anybody. I couldn't talk to my mom.

28:20Did he ever threaten your parents?

28:22He said if I ever left him, he'd burn their house down with them in it.

28:26That's why I never left him.

28:29Well, let's be careful of something.

28:31What would Jody do if he got a death penalty?

28:36I don't know. I don't think she really gave a shit.

28:39Yeah.

28:40At least she ain't getting beaten by him no more.

28:42Yeah.

28:44They're only from one room together.

28:46She's just saying he's innocent so she don't have her fucking hunt down.

28:51Yeah.

28:52Cause he's told her many, many times that no matter if I'm in jail or whatever,

28:57I'll hunt you down and I'll sit and kill you.

28:59Yeah.

29:01Why do you think they don't want you to talk to us?

29:03Cause I can hurt Stephen.

29:06By telling the truth?

29:07Yeah.

29:08I don't know how I can rely for him no more. I can't do it.

29:12It's too hard the way it was.

29:15Well, I'm glad to see that you've turned the corner on him.

29:17I wanted to a long time ago.

29:19I'm glad to see that you've turned the corner on him.

29:21I wanted to a long time ago but...

29:25I'm scared.

29:30Stephen Avery's ex-fiancé Jody Stakowsky calls him a monster.

29:34So in Making a Murderer, viewers saw Jody as this very loving and supportive fiancé to Stephen.

29:40Then less than a month after Making a Murderer premiered, Jody gave an interview to HLM.

29:45And people sort of were shocked because it was a completely different story.

29:49And I think most of them thought, wait, what's actually going on here?

29:52How did she flip? How did she do this complete 180?

29:55She's completely changing her story of who Stephen Avery was

29:59and whether or not she thinks he actually committed the crime.

30:02Do you believe Stephen Avery killed Teresa Halbach?

30:05Yes, I do.

30:06Why?

30:07Because he threatened to kill me and my family and a friend of mine.

30:14During the Halbach investigation, one of Jody's friends told investigators

30:17that Stephen would generally answer the phone whenever she called.

30:20On one of those occasions, Stephen told a friend that if she talked to Jody anymore,

30:24he would find her and he would kill her.

30:26Another question that HLM asked Jody was why didn't she just leave Stephen if it was so bad,

30:31which is just such a pointedly ridiculous question.

30:35I mean, anyone who asks that sort of a question is just not at all familiar with a situation like that.

30:40It's never that easy.

30:41It's never easy for a victim to come forward or to leave

30:45when their entire support system has been cut off.

30:48If you don't have people standing behind you to help you,

30:53there's no way you're going to get out of that family. None.

30:57And Jody didn't have nobody.

31:00So it's just the fear of where you're going to go, how you're going to hide from them.

31:11What you talking about?

31:12Yeah, what am I talking about?

31:14I ain't giving no black eye.

31:15No.

31:16No.

31:17You're still on a doorknob.

31:18No.

31:19Yeah, why did she call the cops on you?

31:21Because you had your fucking hands around her throat.

31:25Huh?

31:27We knew that he had been accused of choking her.

31:32Tell us, to the best of your recollection, what the time that you went unconscious.

31:37He was pissed because I ended up going to the races when I told him I wasn't going to.

31:42And he just freaked out and started beating me and choking me,

31:47and that's when I called the cops.

31:49And then he choked me again, and that's when I passed out.

31:52And I woke up, he was dragging me by my sweatshirt out the back door.

32:00When she went on HLN, I guarantee she did not expect the amount of vitriol

32:06she would receive as a result of making a murder.

32:09It should be noted that there were no physical evidence.

32:14There were no marks around her neck which would have supported the choking claim.

32:19Hey, the cops checked her out.

32:22There was no marks.

32:23Yet what was in the statement?

32:25The statement don't deny she was drunk.

32:28Kiss my ass if you want to sit there and try to say that Stephen Avery is a fucking abuser.

32:35So it's true, Jodi didn't have any bruises on her neck immediately after the incident,

32:39and Stephen Avery supporters used that as evidence that, well, he didn't choke her, obviously.

32:44What they didn't consider was that bruises take a while to show up.

32:47It's obviously not instant.

32:49The police didn't find any marks on her neck.

32:52Well, actually, bruising takes a number of days to come up.

32:55So I train police officers all the time.

32:57If somebody is alleging that they've been strangled or choked, that they will not see evidence.

33:02Experts say that the bruising takes a while to show up.

33:06If I punch you in the arm, it's not like your arm is going to immediately turn black and blue.

33:11A distinct odor of intoxicants was detected on her breath.

33:18Her coping mechanism, absolutely, to blot things out.

33:21People judge her on that.

33:23Jodi essentially got the same treatment as Sandra Morris by the public.

33:28She was dismissed because she drank.

33:30Because people didn't believe that two things could be true at once.

33:34That these individuals could have been drinking, but also may have been victims of abuse.

33:42You fucking lying twat.

33:47To say that Jodi's interview on HLN wasn't very well received would be an understatement.

33:54Social media immediately attacked her, calling her a liar, calling her a drunk.

34:00Drunken gold digger.

34:02Yes, she was.

34:03God, you get the ding, ding, ding of the day.

34:06I think at this point, the docu-series was successful at creating a hive mindset.

34:11It didn't matter what Jodi said on HLN.

34:14They were never going to believe her.

34:16They were always going to defend Steven.

34:19They kept telling me, I have nothing to be guilty about.

34:23It's not your fault.

34:26But if I would have been there, I still feel she'd be alive.

34:34Everybody got along with her.

34:36She just, she had that kind of personality that you're just drawn to.

34:43Like, hey, she's fun.

34:45She was very sweet.

34:50She was talented.

34:51Like, Teresa had a way to make screaming kids smile.

34:57One holiday, I did ask her to do pictures of my puppies with my six-month-old daughter,

35:02and I'm like, good luck.

35:04An hour later, she had 24 pictures taken, and it was the first one that ended up turning out.

35:09It was a gift. She had a gift.

35:13I asked her if she wanted to be either my photographer or a bridesmaid for my wedding,

35:18and she, of course, begged if she could be the photographer.

35:21And I said, absolutely.

35:23Teresa was my first cousin.

35:25Our dads are brothers.

35:26We had mutual friends.

35:28Some of my cousins from the other side were friends with her.

35:31So it was all just like a big family.

35:36Saturday before Halloween, which had been the 29th,

35:41she was on a costume party bus,

35:45and we met her at a bar beforehand.

35:48She was dressed as a cowgirl.

35:50She walked in, and she's like, this is my outfit.

35:53I got boots and I got a hat.

35:55That was the last time I talked to her.

36:01Laughing, enjoying herself, having fun, working hard.

36:07She was also trying to get her business or her photography built up a little bit more.

36:13And that's when she started going for that auto trader.

36:18When I decided to leave, she came to my residence,

36:22and I gave her my camera, my fax machine, all the forms I had, any equipment I had.

36:27And she talked about how much she loved photography.

36:30She was very enthusiastic and upbeat,

36:33and I remember thinking she was a pretty young girl, and it was nice to meet her.

36:43Did you supervise a young woman by the name of Teresa Haubach?

36:46Yes. She was responsible for Green Bay.

36:49And then mid-year 2005, she had taken over the Manitowoc Sheboygan area,

36:59one day a week on Mondays for us.

37:02Teresa's first appointment was at the salvage yard on June 20th of 2005.

37:07That's the first time that her and Stephen crossed paths.

37:10A couple months go by, and Jodi Stokowski went to jail

37:14to serve her sentence for an OUI she had received the prior year.

37:19She went to jail on the 15th. That was a Monday.

37:22And Teresa only works on Mondays.

37:24You know, it's interesting. Teresa Haubach had only visited the Avery Ridge Salvage Yard once.

37:29Suddenly, Stephen starts ramping up these appointments,

37:32calling her back over and over again to take pictures of different vehicles.

37:36And so, I don't know, I just found that to be quite interesting.

37:39Image number 12, taken on August 22nd.

37:45The very next Monday, that was the second appointment that they had together.

37:51The third appointment was a week later, the following Monday.

37:55The fourth appointment was September 19th.

37:58That appointment was actually a little bit different.

38:02Stephen Avery set it up under a different account for Tom Yanda,

38:07our Yanda's husband at the time, but gave his landline number.

38:11When Teresa arrived that day, she first took pictures of the vehicle that Tom Yanda had for sale.

38:17But then Stephen Avery asked her if she would take another picture for one of his vehicles.

38:25Is that a true and accurate depiction of image number 15 that's in front of you?

38:30Yes.

38:31And finally, image number 16, taken on October 10th, 2005 at Stephen Avery's residence.

38:39The day before that, Stephen and his sister Barb ended up purchasing some leg irons and handcuffs

38:48and some furry covers from just an adult store.

38:52These are not industrial strings, they're not what the cops use.

38:55Leg irons and handcuffs seized from his trailer, he says, were for harmless sexual play with his fiancee.

39:26Did you ever, like, try them on or anything?

39:37So you, they, I mean, they had been used and stuff.

39:41Well, no, not really.

39:50Yeah, I thought it was really weird when he said that his daughter had seen the handcuffs

39:55because it just seemed like that's not something you should show your daughter.

39:58October 10th, Stephen asked Teresa to come for a hustle shot. He calls her directly.

40:04You did know that Mr. Avery had Teresa's direct phone number, right?

40:11No, I did not.

40:13Were you aware that he had done a privately arranged shoot with her on October 10th?

40:25I was, those were called hustle shots and I didn't have any information about those, so I wouldn't have known.

40:33We were at the bar one night with a couple friends and Teresa told me that she had gone to Stephen Avery's house

40:38and photographed cars and she goes, you know, the guy from TV, the one that was wrongly convicted.

40:46I do remember her mentioning Steve.

40:48She went out and took some pictures of a guy's car and she got, she was creeped out, he was creepy.

40:54And I said, what do you mean? She goes, well, he answered the door wearing a towel.

40:58And I was like, Teresa?

41:01She had stated to me that he had come out in a towel.

41:06He meaning who?

41:07Stephen Avery.

41:09And she made out a statement down at work because I had a towel on.

41:15I just said, really? And then she said, yeah, and she laughed and just said kind of like, ew, you know.

41:21The girl from Auto Trader said it, but they would not allow it into evidence because it was hearsay.

41:27So what? I had a towel on.

41:29She knew the pool was there. I told her I was in the pool.

41:34How many times was she down here?

41:37Quite a few times.

41:40Since I was in jail? We didn't have the pool that long.

41:44Well, she was there quite a few times.

41:47Every time I put a vehicle in.

41:48I know.

41:50What do you think, if she was uncomfortable or whatever, she would have brought somebody with her,

41:54or told somebody else?

41:57She was a little freaked out and she kind of stepped back and he looked at her and he said,

42:03don't worry, someday you'll get this.

42:05And we all kind of looked at her like, what do you, like, what do you mean that's what he said?

42:10She had explained to a friend that he had made some kind of reference to her,

42:15to a display on his wall that had some phone numbers and some pictures of other women

42:20and indicated that she too would someday be on that wall as if he was laying claim to her.

42:25And this caused her enough discomfort that she mentioned it to her friends.

42:32She goes, I don't think I want to go back there.

42:35And I do remember us all telling her then, don't go back there.

42:40I don't think she would have felt threatened by it.

42:43Uncomfortable, yes, but threatened, no.

42:46I was never interviewed by police.

42:48It was just, it was bar talk.

42:50It was friends talking.

42:53It was hearsay.

42:54It was, I had no proof that she said it.

42:57I had no proof that that really did happen.

43:01I'm just telling you this is what my friend told me one night in a bar.

43:07Teresa's gut told her that there was something off about Stephen Avery and she told this to a friend.

43:14I so wish that she had followed her gut instinct.

43:19In hindsight, I think about it a lot.

43:22A lot.

43:24That maybe we should have done a little more or encouraged her a little more not to go.

43:32Do I think we could have stopped her?

43:34No.

43:36It was her job.

43:38She was loyal, trustworthy, and she was going to go.

43:43She was going to go.

43:51In 85, I hung around with Steve almost every day.

43:54I almost lived with him.

43:56Helped him put engines in Ford Torinos.

44:01We'd go burn the tires off of it and blow it up and pull it out and put another one in.

44:07When he got out in 03 there or whatever year it was, I helped him out and we hung around.

44:13You know, even when we went to the auction after this happened, it's like he didn't have, he wasn't a different person.

44:20I mean, he wasn't acting weird then.

44:28Not really, no.

44:38No.

44:51Coming up on Convicting a Murderer.

44:53What would be the upside for this man?

44:55I mean, he just got out of prison.

44:57He has this new lease on life.

44:59What would be the motive for something like this?

45:01We're talking about somebody with unexplainable, impulsive behavior.

45:05A pattern of violence and aggression.

45:08There were a lot of coincidences on the day that Teresa Halbach was killed.

45:12And Making a Murderer either completely omitted them or only presented half of the story.

45:18Stephen Avery leaves work and doesn't tell his brothers.

45:21He'd never used his sister's phone number to book an appointment before.

45:25Stephen Avery makes two phone calls to Teresa's phone.

45:29Teresa's phone.

45:30Why is he blocking his caller ID?

45:32I don't think Teresa liked Stephen the way Stephen wanted her to like him.

45:38You had a murderer because you turned your ass down.

46:29CONVICTING A MURDERER

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