#bilawalbhutto #constitutionalamendment #pmlngovt #pti #fazalurrehman #ExclusiveInterview
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Waseem Badami
Guest:
- Bilawal Bhutto Zardari
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Waseem Badami
Guest:
- Bilawal Bhutto Zardari
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:30Pakistan People's Party, Bilawal Bhutto Zardari sahib.
00:43Bilawal sahib, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
00:44Thank you very much for your time.
00:45Assalam-o-Alaikum, Bilawal sahib.
00:48Sir, thank you very much for your time, Bilawal sahib.
00:50Okay, Bilawal sahib, just a little while ago, you gave a statement that the Musawwida
00:54that is under pressure on the media is not the real Musawwida.
00:59So, you solve the problem and tell us what are the important things in the real Musawwida
01:06so that all the rumours are broken that this is the Musawwida on which voting was to be
01:10done and could not be done.
01:11Thank you very much, Mr. Upazwami.
01:14Mr. Upazwami, I wanted to come on your channel.
01:18So, I think you had a misunderstanding about this amendment or potential amendment.
01:28As far as what is being published on the media or what I have seen on the media, there will
01:35be one or two points that the government wanted to get through its amendment, but there are
01:41a few points that were not in my knowledge.
01:44As far as the amendment is concerned, you know that you need a two-thirds majority.
01:51So, until there is no two-thirds majority, neither the government nor anyone else will
01:57be able to pass the amendment through the assembly.
02:00Correct.
02:01You and every Pakistani know that our politics is broken.
02:07Neither is our parliament running properly, nor is our court.
02:12I mean, if you look at our judicial system, my family, my community, had to wait for almost
02:1850 years for justice to be served in the case of the martyred Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto.
02:28How long do ordinary Pakistanis have to wait for the court to decide the cases?
02:36It takes a long time.
02:38In our Supreme Court, only 15% of the cases are according to the law.
02:44They are called legal cases or political cases.
02:47But those 15% cases take up 90% of the time.
02:51And the case of the murder or theft of a civilian is pending for years.
03:05Similarly, in the case of the High Court, 50% of the cases are according to Article 199
03:13and the other 50% are normal cases.
03:16Even there, ordinary people do not get justice.
03:19So, no one should have this belief that there is a need for judicial reforms in Pakistan.
03:26It is our responsibility as parliamentarians to bring about this kind of change.
03:36Pakistan will have a lot of demands from the government regarding the amendment of the law.
03:44They will have a very long agenda.
03:48The interest and passion of the Pakistan People's Party,
03:52our participation in Mansoor,
03:54the promise of the martyred Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto since 2006,
03:58the amendment that we made regarding the Charter of Democracy,
04:04and some of the points that we implemented from 2008 to 2013,
04:09some are left.
04:10The Truth and Reconciliation Commission is left.
04:12The NAP reforms are left.
04:14The reforms that we were supposed to bring in the court are left.
04:18So, when the government wants to bring about its own amendment,
04:22I also tried my best to say that if you want to bring about the amendment,
04:29then the opinion of the Pakistan People's Party is that
04:32if we fulfill the commitment of the Charter of Democracy,
04:37we can not only get justice for the people,
04:44but also address the endemic issues in our judicial system once and for all.
04:50You tell me, Mr. Badami,
04:52give me an example of a world where which world's court can make a dam?
05:00Where?
05:01In which world's court can a Chief Justice come and say that
05:06I was born in Karachi and I want to see that Karachi that was my childhood Karachi?
05:11So, you make this Emirate fall.
05:13Where?
05:14Which world's court says that I will set the price of tomatoes,
05:20I will set the price of potatoes.
05:22So, if our court does all this work,
05:25then who will bring justice to the common man?
05:28I think there can be no objection to this,
05:31nor should there be any objection that judicial reforms are necessary for Pakistan.
05:38Okay.
05:39But, Mr. Bilawal,
05:41such examples in the world can be found in the Banana Republic,
05:44or maybe not,
05:45where the amendment of the Charter,
05:47which in the time of Mr. Zardari,
05:49when the 18th amendment of the Charter was adopted,
05:51the complaint of the Pakistan Charter was reviewed,
05:53how much time did it take?
05:54The People's Party takes credit for this,
05:56that the 1973 Charter was compatible.
05:58So, amendment of the Charter is a big thing.
06:00The way this attempt was made to amend the Charter,
06:02Oh, it will be 10 in the morning.
06:04Oh no, not 10, make it 4.
06:05Oh no, not 4, make it 8.
06:06Make it 10.
06:07Oh, let's do it tomorrow.
06:08Oh no, let's do it today.
06:09So, was it an ideal way to execute it?
06:12Or do you think this is the stupidity of the government?
06:14As far as the timing and process are concerned,
06:17you must ask the government,
06:19ask the right questions.
06:21But, as far as you are saying that the consensus is absolutely correct,
06:25in 1973, in the era of the Pakistan People's Party,
06:29despite having a two-thirds majority,
06:32we passed it with full consensus.
06:34In the 18th amendment, we did not have a majority,
06:37even then, with full consensus,
06:40we passed the amendment of the Charter.
06:43But it is not written anywhere in the Charter
06:45that you can pass the amendment of the Charter
06:47only when you have a three-thirds majority.
06:51In the current political situation in this country,
06:54as you can see,
06:57the polarization has reached such an extent
07:00that we are not in favor of each other,
07:02especially our senior and respected opposition politicians,
07:07like Maulana Fazl-e-Iman.
07:09But the other politicians who are sitting in our opposition,
07:12and I agree,
07:13the politicians who are sitting in the government branches,
07:16we have brought politics to such a level
07:18that we are not ready to shake hands.
07:20I made a great effort
07:22in front of the world, in front of the people, in front of you,
07:25this is my effort.
07:27When between the government and the opposition,
07:31the unfortunate incident that took place in the parliament,
07:34because of which the entire parliament
07:36is on the government's benches and in opposition,
07:38we took a stand and made a committee
07:41so that we can take input from all politicians,
07:46whether it is a reform of our institution
07:49or a reform of some other institution,
07:51we wanted,
07:52it was our effort once again,
07:54that PTI should come
07:56and adopt a positive political character in the opposition.
08:00But a day later,
08:02their leader
08:05gave such a statement
08:07which again,
08:08that path, that space,
08:10of opposition, of those communities,
08:12and our conversation,
08:14he sabotaged it.
08:16How did he sabotage it?
08:18First, he gave such a terrifying statement
08:21in which both the content of court is present
08:23and the crime of sedition is also present.
08:26So until today, he did not even clarify
08:29whether our leader gave this statement or not.
08:33In that environment,
08:35for us,
08:36and for the government,
08:38for Muslim League Nawaz as well,
08:40it is difficult for us to think
08:42that by sitting with them,
08:44we should pass this constitutional amendment
08:46with their input.
08:48On the basis of principles,
08:50in ideal situations,
08:51you are absolutely right.
08:53I would love the opposition's input.
08:55But what we feel,
08:56and I hope that time proves us wrong,
08:58right now, we feel
09:00that PTI,
09:02opposition for opposition,
09:04is faking.
09:06They are not opposing
09:08on the basis of principles,
09:10on the basis of positive principles.
09:12Okay.
09:13Ideally,
09:14but don't worry,
09:15the constitutional amendment should be completed.
09:16Only two-thirds should be completed.
09:17I am saying this right,
09:18if I say,
09:19it is an open secret,
09:20that the amendment was not approved that day
09:22because Maulana did not agree on some things.
09:25Is it correct that Maulana,
09:26before that,
09:27gave you a commitment last night
09:29that, okay, agreed.
09:30As far as the matter of last night is concerned,
09:34it may not be so.
09:35Without Maulana Fazl Rehman's consensus,
09:38it is impossible
09:39that we will pass this constitutional amendment.
09:43Last night,
09:44when I met Maulana Fazl Rehman,
09:48Yes.
09:49In that,
09:50Maulana Fazl Rehman's objection,
09:53or the objection of the Jamaat,
09:55the government's wishes,
09:58which were so many,
09:59regarding the constitutional amendment,
10:00were quite a lot.
10:01For my party,
10:03whichever government you imagine,
10:0610 points or 20 points,
10:08if they have a wish list,
10:10regarding the constitutional amendment.
10:12The Pakistan People's Party
10:14also had an engagement with the government
10:16for a week or two.
10:17Where we tried to explain to them
10:20that,
10:21one,
10:22we believe that
10:23clean and succinct judicial reforms,
10:28constitutional court,
10:30and the review of Arvin should have components.
10:35And if there are any other issues,
10:37then they should be raised in their own context.
10:39There is no need to involve them.
10:44You also know that,
10:46if I want to make my own calls to the government,
10:51or my opinion on the judicial appointments process,
10:55or I want to give my input,
10:57then I will have to give them a few points.
10:59Similarly,
11:00Maulana Fazl Rehman had to be engaged in the same way
11:04Maulana Fazl Rehman's party came to the committee,
11:09which has a raw draft of the government,
11:12and brought it forward.
11:14Maulana Fazl Rehman's input,
11:17if there was any additional input on my party,
11:20or if there was any input from the rest of the committee members,
11:24we sat down and,
11:26if we could come up with a consensus,
11:28two-thirds,
11:29minimum,
11:30then we had to get it passed.
11:32And that didn't happen.
11:34But I don't think there is any need to be disappointed.
11:39We have been waiting since 2006
11:42to bring this draft.
11:44If we wait a few more days,
11:46there is no harm in that.
11:48But of course,
11:49there is a need to engage with Maulana Fazl Rehman.
11:53The Pakistan People's Party,
11:55and Maulana Fazl Rehman's party,
11:58that the original draft of the Pakistan People's Party,
12:05which we have prepared,
12:07with reference to the Constitutional Court,
12:11for implementing the Charter of Democracy,
12:15we will put that in front of the JUI.
12:21And the JUI is also working on its own draft.
12:26So if we can make a consensus document between our two drafts,
12:31then perhaps it will be easier for us to cross that two-thirds majority.
12:37This may take a month or two?
12:40Yes.
12:41I will try to get it done as soon as possible.
12:45But because this is not a wish of today or tomorrow,
12:51my priority is that we achieve what we want to achieve.
12:56If we want to take Maulana Fazl Rehman with us,
13:02then it may not take a month or two.
13:05But this is Maulana Fazl Rehman's desire,
13:08and I think it is a legitimate desire from his perspective,
13:12that we not only bring the government together,
13:16but also have the input of the PTI.
13:19If we follow that process,
13:21then it may take a month or two.
13:23My point of view is that these reforms may not happen.
13:30But if we work with an open heart and with a good intention,
13:38then God willing, the result of this hard work will come out.
13:42For clarity, let me ask a specific question.
13:46You are saying that what is going on in the media is wrong.
13:50Yes, I am asking an innocent question.
13:52You are asking an innocent question.
13:53You have called your lawyer and asked him to ask you any question.
13:56I am happy to defend anything that we want to,
14:00legislation that we want to defend.
14:02Excellent point.
14:03Now, sir, tell me,
14:04in that constitution,
14:06was there a requirement to increase or decrease the retirement age of judges?
14:12To increase the retirement age of judges.
14:14And not on the basis of next Chief Justice seniority,
14:16but to select from the panel.
14:18Was there such a requirement, precisely?
14:20The suggestion of the Pakistan People's Party,
14:24or the initial draft,
14:26was not like this.
14:30The initial proposal of the government was to bring reforms for the retirement age.
14:40The counter-proposal of the Pakistan People's Party was not to do this,
14:44but to bring constitutional courts.
14:46And instead of increasing the age,
14:48the idea of the Pakistan People's Party was to reduce the age of judges.
14:54That is why you know how unemployed Pakistan is right now,
15:00how many young people are in need of employment.
15:04And actually, in our original constitution,
15:07the lower age limit for judges was 40 years.
15:12And General Zia-ul-Haq took it to 45 years.
15:15So as far as the age was concerned,
15:17the suggestion of the Pakistan People's Party was not to increase it.
15:20The suggestion of the Pakistan People's Party was,
15:22which the government agreed to and also included,
15:24to reduce the age.
15:26When it comes to increasing or decreasing,
15:29I think there could have been a potential controversy.
15:33Not only for our Supreme Court, but for our proposed constitutional court.
15:38For the proposed constitutional court,
15:40the suggestion of the government was
15:42that the age of the Chief Justice should be 3 years,
15:48and the maximum age should be 67.
15:50And in the same way, there was a suggestion of an age
15:53for armed justices on the same constitutional bench.
15:59The case of the JUI was that we should keep the age of 65
16:03in the judiciary, which was the age of the constitutional court.
16:09In the proposal of the Pakistan People's Party,
16:12I think that if we keep a specific age,
16:16and it is a pity that our judicial system has reached this stage,
16:21but it is necessary to say that if we kept an age,
16:24whether it was 65 or 67,
16:27my party's position is that it would have looked individual-specific.
16:30It would have looked as if we were trying to keep someone out,
16:34or trying to keep someone in.
16:36So the draft that my party proposed,
16:39we did not mention any age in it.
16:42And we thought that in our constitutional court,
16:46on the basis of terms,
16:49for example, the Chief Justice should have a term of 3 years,
16:53and the armed judges should have a term longer than that,
16:55so that the Chief Justice, the constitutional court,
16:58gets the opportunity to serve their 3 terms.
17:01Secondly, the Court of Justice should get this opportunity.
17:06There are many aspects to the purpose of the Constitutional Court.
17:11One is that in our country,
17:14the way in which the common man finds justice difficult,
17:17the way in which our court has adventurism.
17:20But at the same time, I think it is also necessary
17:27that we bring our current system in line with the times,
17:32in line with the modern times.
17:34And there will be a consensus between the Pakistan People's Party,
17:38Noon League's proposal and J-Works' proposal,
17:43and we will bring it forward.
17:46And the Government's proposal was that the first Chief Justice of the Constitutional Court
17:50should be appointed by the Prime Minister.
17:53There are many suggestions, and there can be a debate on this.
18:00We are open to the process,
18:02as to how we can make this decision.
18:08In my opinion, the first Chief Justice's appointment,
18:13which is currently the procedure for the appointment of judges in our judiciary,
18:20that can be described best as of the judges, for the judges, and by the judges.
18:26And I have not seen anywhere else in the world,
18:29where judges appoint judges.
18:32You see the whole world, that in the United States,
18:35the world's most famous democratic system,
18:40how their parliament sits there.
18:43There is a bipartisan committee of the judiciary,
18:46and the judges of the Constitutional Court,
18:51on their judicial history,
18:55on their legal views,
18:57there is a very rigorous interview process.
19:00And then the entire forum decides,
19:04who should be their Justice.
19:08In Pakistan, we have tried to bring this kind of transformation in the past.
19:13At the time of the 18th amendment,
19:15the Parliament, with full consensus,
19:18with two-thirds consensus,
19:20the Parliament had a collective decision,
19:23that such a committee would be formed,
19:26and that committee would elect judges of Pakistan.
19:30Our then Honorable Chief Justice,
19:34Justice Iftikhar Chaudhary,
19:37he, our entire 18th amendment,
19:40which was the first successful amendment to abolish the 1973 Constitution,
19:47which removed all the black laws in this country,
19:52which made people devolution,
19:54which gave the common man his right.
19:57He blackmailed us,
20:01that either return this process to me,
20:05so that I can appoint my own judges,
20:09or I can undo your entire Constitution.
20:14So, since then, we have been trying this process,
20:19but we could not do it.
20:21Even today, when my proposal is that we go back to the 18th amendment,
20:25Moulana Fazl Rehman's group had a different proposal,
20:30that the Judicial Judges Committee of the Parliament,
20:37should be formed,
20:39so that there are not only representatives of the Parliament,
20:42but also representatives of the Judiciary,
20:45as well as, what do you call it,
20:48the representatives of the Bar Councils, etc.
20:51If this is an intermediate way,
20:54then the Pakistan People's Party has no objection to this.
20:57Obviously, you are giving all kinds of suggestions,
21:00because the bill has not come yet.
21:02I want to ask you,
21:04that on which you and the government had an agreement,
21:07because obviously, we are assuming,
21:09and I think rightly so,
21:10that you and the government had an agreement,
21:14but it did not happen because Moulana Sahib did not agree.
21:17So, did the two of you agree on this,
21:20that the first Chief Justice of the New Constitutional Court,
21:22that is why I am speaking openly.
21:24The government wants to give the Chief Justice an extension,
21:29or to put him in the same court.
21:31There are a few points on this,
21:33which I would like to raise.
21:35Firstly, the input of the Pakistan People's Party,
21:39which was in the draft of the government,
21:41was in the context that,
21:43we thought that Moulana Sahib is already on board,
21:46and the government is already on board,
21:48it was just a matter of time for the Pakistan People's Party to convince.
21:51In that process, yes,
21:53we made the government agree on some of our points,
21:56and we also agreed on some of the government's points.
22:03The draft that was in the morning of that day,
22:08Moulana Fazlur Rahman Sahib had a lot of objections to it,
22:13Pakistan People's Party had a few objections to it,
22:16but whenever you agree on a part of your manifesto,
22:24then you are ready to compromise on other parties.
22:29The approach that we will take now,
22:32is that the original draft of the Pakistan People's Party,
22:35will be sent to Moulana Fazlur Rahman Sahib,
22:38and we are waiting for him to complete his draft,
22:41so that we can bring it to a consensus document.
22:44As far as the Chief Justice's initial appointment criteria are concerned,
22:51which you are talking about,
22:53the Prime Minister's approval,
22:55and the process of notification,
22:59that will have to be a one-time process,
23:03as to how we will start it.
23:05Going forward, obviously,
23:07we have suggested that the Chief Justice's,
23:10either the new Chief Justice,
23:12which is made up of the Constitutional Court,
23:14or a proposal can be made,
23:16that with both the Chief Justices,
23:18or with the Chief Justice,
23:20or with the Senior Puni Judge,
23:22whatever system you want to make,
23:24the power that the Prime Minister had,
23:27according to our original constitution,
23:29according to the 1973 constitution,
23:32before the 1996 Supreme Court Judicial Order,
23:35in the time of Mdm. Benazir Bhutto,
23:37who took this power from Mdm. Benazir Bhutto,
23:40and kept it with the Supreme Court,
23:43and in the time of Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry,
23:47that power,
23:49went to the judges completely.
23:52So, one proposal is that,
23:54it should go to the Prime Minister.
23:57But my party's opinion was that,
23:59maybe this is a little,
24:01given the current political context,
24:04there can be more criticism,
24:09so we can debate on this,
24:11we can think on this.
24:13One proposal is that,
24:15you should consult with the President of Pakistan,
24:17and the Chief Justice,
24:19and the judges,
24:21or through the same Judicial Commission.
24:23I mean, this can be discussed.
24:25But what you are talking about,
24:27and saying that this is a government proposal,
24:29this is less of a government proposal,
24:31this was a procedure according to the original constitution.
24:34Sir, if I simplify this and ask,
24:36any move as a result of which,
24:38a respectable judge,
24:40stays in office,
24:42will not make the whole process controversial,
24:44and will you not oppose it,
24:45because it will look like you are a person-specific person.
24:47Actually, I think your question is person-specific.
24:50Yes, it is actually.
24:52Yes, my question is person-specific.
24:54I totally disagree with this.
24:57I agree that,
24:59what you are asking,
25:01I agree that,
25:03there are some politicians,
25:05who have a different intention.
25:07There are some other politicians,
25:09who have a different intention.
25:11But the point at which,
25:13the Pakistan People's Party,
25:15and the JUI,
25:17had a consensus on that committee,
25:19on that day,
25:21was that,
25:23the JUI and the People's Party,
25:25are not as partisan as PTR and Noondi,
25:27when it comes to questions.
25:29Therefore,
25:31perhaps we have more space to talk about,
25:33a constitutional amendment,
25:35or build consensus,
25:37away from that controversy.
25:39I think that the bill that we make,
25:41should not be person-specific.
25:43Neither in terms of age,
25:45nor in terms of keeping someone,
25:47and God willing,
25:49we will try our best,
25:51to make that consensus.
25:53As far as,
25:55Justice Faiz Issa is concerned,
25:57I think that both,
25:59our current Chief Justice,
26:01and incoming Chief Justice,
26:03are very respectable judicial figures.
26:05Both judges,
26:07Justice Faiz Issa and Justice Mansoor Adi Shah,
26:09both were present,
26:11in my grandfather's case.
26:13The more I respect them,
26:15the better I can describe them to you,
26:17that will be less.
26:19I don't want to give,
26:21any such perception,
26:23or any such controversy.
26:25I will try to make,
26:27both of them,
26:29non-controversial.
26:31I don't want to make them,
26:33even more controversial.
26:35I think that it is a matter of regret,
26:37that the politics of Pakistan,
26:39has come to this point,
26:41that we give our Chief Justice,
26:43be it Justice Faiz Issa,
26:45be it Justice Khosa,
26:47be it Justice Gulzar,
26:49be it Saqib Nizar,
26:51we give them as a judge,
26:53and not as a judge,
26:55who wants to make a system,
26:57in the whole world,
26:59which is not,
27:01non-controversial.
27:03Some, because of the judiciary's own character,
27:05but some because,
27:07in our politics,
27:09no one is ready to accept their own responsibility.
27:11They are always in the habit of,
27:13blaming someone.
27:15So sir, as we speak,
27:17do you have any doubt,
27:19that on 26th October, 2024,
27:21Mansoor Ali Shah will be the next Chief Justice of Pakistan?
27:23I have no doubt,
27:25that Mansoor Ali Shah will be the next Chief Justice.
27:27On 26th October, 2024,
27:29he will be the next Chief Justice of Pakistan.
27:31If you are invited,
27:33you will also be invited.
27:35I am neither a minister,
27:37nor an official,
27:39to be invited.
27:41I may accompany my father,
27:43but I have no such intention.
27:45Sir, let's conclude this.
27:47Tell us,
27:49why you don't have this opinion,
27:51if you don't have it,
27:53or you will say,
27:55I have this opinion,
27:57that it is a constitutional amendment,
27:59it is a consensual act,
28:01what is the hurry?
28:0320 days, 40 days,
28:05it should not take forever of course,
28:07but even if it takes 1-2 months,
28:09Mr. Maulana can look at it,
28:11we can look at it.
28:13Why don't you condemn Noon League,
28:15I will not condemn it.
28:17Pakistan's politics and history
28:19has been something like this.
28:21Firstly, this is not a
28:23common constitutional amendment,
28:25as much as we want
28:27to make a consensus.
28:29But you have seen,
28:31that whatever,
28:33according to the judiciary,
28:35the parliament of Pakistan
28:37has tried to bring
28:39better amendments,
28:41every law, every amendment,
28:43has been completely
28:45overturned,
28:47or watered down,
28:49whether it is the practice
28:51and procedure act,
28:53or the 18th amendment
28:55or the 19th amendment.
28:57How many times have we been
28:59promised by the judge,
29:01that our appointment
29:03procedure is wrong,
29:05so we will bring changes
29:07according to the rules,
29:09which he never brought.
29:11This is the first
29:13Chief Justice of the Supreme Court,
29:15who reduced his own powers,
29:17and asked for the practice
29:19and procedures act,
29:21because it was the
29:23parliament's decision.
29:25Before this, no Chief Justice,
29:27neither in the sumo-moto powers,
29:29nor in making a bench,
29:31reduced his own powers.
29:33This is exactly like Sadr Zardari,
29:35through the 18th amendment,
29:37from the most powerful president
29:39of the country,
29:41he brought changes.
29:43Sir, in this amendment,
29:45it is also mentioned that
29:47there is a possibility of a
29:49civilian military trial.
29:51What is your opinion?
29:53Should there be a civilian
29:55military trial?
29:57As far as the military trials
29:59were concerned,
30:01within the wish list,
30:03there were
30:05two proposals.
30:07One,
30:09like the military courts
30:11were made earlier,
30:13for blacker than black terrorists,
30:15which we made after the APS incident,
30:17and the other,
30:19with reference to the
30:21amendment of Article 8,
30:23the attacks on military installations.
30:25Now, in the general situation
30:27of the Pakistan People's Party,
30:29and the basic stance has been
30:31that we are not in favor
30:33of military courts.
30:35There have also been instances
30:37when the situation of terrorism
30:39has reached such a serious level
30:41that even the Pakistan People's Party
30:43has been forced to
30:45support such amendments
30:47post-APS.
30:49The stance of the Pakistan
30:51People's Party
30:53in this whole series was
30:55that at this time,
30:57we are not in a position
30:59to vote
31:01in favor of such amendments.
31:03The government, therefore,
31:05would have the majority necessary
31:07for a constitutional amendment
31:09as far as
31:11the military courts
31:13as they did in post-APS.
31:15As far as
31:17the attack on military installations
31:19was concerned,
31:21in order to reach a consensus,
31:23I was ready to
31:25step back
31:27and engage
31:29with the government
31:31to discuss
31:33what kind of protections
31:35we can put in place.
31:37But now I understand
31:39that by talking to
31:41Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman
31:43and Kamran Murtaza,
31:45they have given
31:47a personal experience
31:49that the protections
31:51that we put in place
31:53were not enough.
31:55And even the amendment
31:57to Article 8
31:59if the government really believes
32:01that it is necessary
32:03for us to bring
32:05such legislation
32:07from the military courts,
32:09then the Pakistan People's Party
32:11would demand
32:13a joint national security meeting
32:15of the National Assembly
32:17and the Senate of Pakistan.
32:19You should brief us
32:21and tell us what problems
32:23you have,
32:25what operations
32:27you are taking
32:29to combat terrorism.
32:31If you think
32:33that the military courts
32:35are necessary,
32:37then try to convince us
32:39and then try to reach
32:41a consensus.
32:43But right now,
32:45the amendment to Article 8
32:47with the reforms
32:49of the courts,
32:51when you are establishing
32:53a new institution,
32:55at that time,
32:57this decision was not
32:59appropriate for my party.
33:01Do you think that
33:03Imran Khan should be
33:05the military trial
33:07in the context of 9th May?
33:09As far as
33:11Khan's own character
33:13is concerned,
33:15we get an impression
33:17through the media
33:19but I think
33:21the government should
33:23bring forth the evidence
33:25that he has directed
33:27and you should
33:29bring forth
33:31the evidence
33:33legally.
33:35As far as the military courts
33:37are concerned,
33:39the court has decided
33:41that we cannot address
33:43this issue without legislation.
33:45My last question is
33:47that, as you said
33:49about Mansoor Ali Shah,
33:51do you believe that
33:53if a legal court is formed,
33:55the Chief Justice will not be
33:57Mr. Faiz Ishaq?
33:59As I told you earlier,
34:01I don't want to make
34:03a person-specific system
34:05that rules in or rules out.
34:07I think that
34:09any decision should be
34:11made through consultation
34:13and there is no harm
34:15if this consultation is
34:17between the executive and the court.
34:19Sir, whenever you give us
34:21the next time,
34:23will you accept the amendment?
34:25I don't put a time limit
34:27on anything,
34:29Waseem Budhami.
34:31We have been fighting for
34:33the amendment for decades.
34:35It is not a question
34:37of a day or a few months
34:39or even years.
34:41As of 1973,
34:43the martyr Benazir Bhutto
34:45had fought for 30 years
34:47and after the martyr's death,
34:49we had the opportunity
34:51to fulfill those promises
34:53in the 18th century.
34:55Since 2006, the Pakistan People's
34:57Party has been trying
34:59to reform the court
35:01along with other
35:03points of the Charter of Democracy
35:05and to bring justice
35:07to the common man.
35:09We believe that
35:11the constitution is supreme
35:13so a court should be formed
35:15but I will continue
35:17to fight for it
35:19whether I succeed in one day
35:21or in ten days.
35:23I have to fight all my life.
35:25It is the promise of my mother,
35:27the martyr Benazir Bhutto.
35:29If I don't fight for it,
35:31then who will?
35:33Thank you very much for your time,
35:35Bilawal Bhutto Zardari.
35:37I am really grateful.
35:39Bilawal Bhutto Zardari,
35:41Chairman of the Pakistan People's
35:43Party.
36:13Thank you very much.
36:43Thank you very much.