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SportsTranscript
00:00:00What's going on, guys?
00:00:05We're live.
00:00:06Sorry for the delay.
00:00:07Setting up this beautiful shot we have here with Mike Kadlik and Taylor Cowles out at
00:00:10Gillette Stadium.
00:00:12Patriots fall.
00:00:13Another competitive game, 23-20.
00:00:16Some stuff to like.
00:00:17Some stuff was rough.
00:00:21We're going to go over all of it and we'll let these guys talk about what they saw and
00:00:25what they heard as they just got out of the locker room.
00:00:27And again, the Patriots fall 23-20 in a very winnable game.
00:00:33To the Seahawks, fall to 1-1.
00:00:35So a tough outcome here.
00:00:37I think the headlines here as we go forward, guys, are certainly going to be offensive
00:00:42line both in terms of what happened this week and what happened today with another injury
00:00:48and just the overall inability to really protect.
00:00:52Just no juice in the passing game right now that we can see through two games.
00:00:58Patriots have to play a near-perfect game.
00:01:00They did not today.
00:01:02There were some letdowns on defense and some execution issues, a blocked field goal, some
00:01:07penalties.
00:01:08And again, their margin for error is really, really, really thin.
00:01:12And that's why we are where we are here with these guys.
00:01:16So we'll get your thoughts here real quick before we get started.
00:01:19Let everybody know at home.
00:01:20The show and all of our Patriots coverage is presented by PrizePix, America's number
00:01:26one DFS app.
00:01:27Use that code CLNS when you sign up.
00:01:30And please do sign up.
00:01:31All new users, you sign up, you play five, you get 50 instantly when you do that.
00:01:36And of course, there is GameTime, an authorized ticket marketplace.
00:01:40All you have to do is download that GameTime app.
00:01:42Again, code CLNS, 20 bucks off your first purchase terms to apply.
00:01:46Pearl Jam, still got time.
00:01:50Get after it tonight.
00:01:51Where's that one?
00:01:52Oh, tonight at Fenway?
00:01:53All right.
00:01:54Tonight at Fenway.
00:01:55And then again, on Tuesday, you can get in there.
00:01:57Pat's Jets, you want to make the trip to the Meadowlands?
00:01:59All of these guys will.
00:02:00But again, check out GameTime.
00:02:02It's pretty good.
00:02:03Pretty good seats available for this one.
00:02:04The Patriots home opener, which they lost.
00:02:06Foxborough has not been a fun place to play lately, guys.
00:02:09I'll kind of start with you just in your overall thought.
00:02:12Your takeaway, your headline from this game is what?
00:02:17You want it?
00:02:18You can go first.
00:02:20I do have something.
00:02:21My headline from this game, John, is the fact that the Patriots defensive backfield wasn't
00:02:24great today.
00:02:25I mean, yes, Chris Gonzalez, it did look like they together him and Kyle Duggar blew that
00:02:30coverage on the long DK back half touchdown.
00:02:31We later learned just in the locker room now, Kyle Duggar did take accountability, responsibility
00:02:36on trying to pass that off.
00:02:38He ends up, they end up in no man's land, DK ends up, you know, 56 yards for a touchdown.
00:02:41But later on, Marco Wilson wasn't good.
00:02:44We kept looking for Jonathan Jones on the sideline.
00:02:46They were moving those guys in and out.
00:02:47It probably should have been Jonathan Jones in that position for most of the game.
00:02:50And then there's the defensive pass interference in the end zone over here from Marco Wilson
00:02:54on Tyler Lockett.
00:02:56That leads to a touchdown later on in overtime, Jonathan Jones, another defensive pass interference
00:03:00again on Tyler Lockett that leads to the game winning field goal.
00:03:03So point being, the run defense was really good.
00:03:06We'll talk about that a little bit later.
00:03:07But you think that this the Seattle team, much like the Patriots, they want to win these
00:03:12games running the ball first and only having to rely on their passing game if they're half
00:03:15if they have to.
00:03:17The run defense plays well.
00:03:18They only let up two yards to carry.
00:03:19So then you rely on the pass defense and they weren't great.
00:03:21They didn't do it.
00:03:22They let Gino complete 75% of his passes for over 300 yards, the touchdown, and they end
00:03:27up winning the game 23-20.
00:03:29So my takeaway right now is, although Christian Gonzalez looks really good and continues to
00:03:33look good against these top flight wide receivers, the rest of the guys around him need to be
00:03:36better in order to try and win these games.
00:03:38Yeah.
00:03:39And there were even some missed opportunities for the Seahawks in the passing game.
00:03:41I think they had, what, four or five drop passes.
00:03:43And I feel like almost all of those could have gone for conversions.
00:03:47I didn't think Christian Gonzalez played well, all things considered.
00:03:49But while in this game, I think the headline, because the reason they lost is they gifted
00:03:53the Seattle Seahawks two touchdowns.
00:03:55If we came into this game knowing that they were going to do that, you'd probably predicted
00:03:58a loss for the Patriots because they just aren't built to play that way.
00:04:02But long term, I think the biggest thing is this passing game, because for whatever reason,
00:04:07DeMario Douglas did not touch the ball.
00:04:09Jalen Polk only had a few touches.
00:04:11Now, obviously, the touchdown was huge, but those are two guys from Jacoby.
00:04:15And also, good job by Polk on the play to settle into zone coverage.
00:04:19Sometimes, like you saw with Zay Flowers in the opener that they had against the Chiefs,
00:04:22where it's a play where he's in the end zone, finds space.
00:04:25He keeps running.
00:04:26And then, obviously, there's a misconnection between him and Lamar Jackson.
00:04:29So great job by Jalen Polk having awareness and slowing down to make himself available
00:04:33for his quarterback.
00:04:34But then, obviously, Hunter Henry has a great day, and we have to acknowledge that is a
00:04:37big reason why the Patriots wide receivers weren't as productive.
00:04:41But even still, how many times did Jacoby Bursette have to go to Hunter Henry after
00:04:45extending the play?
00:04:46I did know going into this game, if you looked at my timeline, I highlighted that when Jacoby
00:04:49last played Mike McDonald's defense, a lot of it was just peppering his tight ends on
00:04:53short throws over the middle against zone coverages, and that was where they needed
00:04:57to live.
00:04:58But it was really odd that you didn't see DeMario Douglas get any screens, any type
00:05:02of design touches, at the very least, a week after the same week that Gerard Mayo and Alex
00:05:08Van Pelt told us they were going to get Jalen Polk and DeMario Douglas more involved, because
00:05:12they were open consistently last week.
00:05:14Now, I did notice, it was kind of odd, Devin Witherspoon, I liked the matchup with Pop
00:05:18Douglas because I thought Pop could beat him in a phone booth and then maybe take the top
00:05:22off a few times.
00:05:23Witherspoon, every time I looked at the matchup, was playing way off of Pop.
00:05:27So I think that the Seahawks had an idea that that was probably where they could maybe have
00:05:30some success for the Patriots and didn't want to give those opportunities.
00:05:34But with Pop having so much space, I don't understand why you didn't at least try to
00:05:38give him opportunities to make plays with the ball in his hands.
00:05:40This is a West Coast offense.
00:05:42The whole personality of the West Coast is obviously have a complimentary pass and run
00:05:46game, but let your receivers make plays with the ball in their hands.
00:05:49So again, this game, the defense, I think is the biggest reason they lost.
00:05:52Obviously, the blocked field goal as well.
00:05:54When you have a big special teams play, it sucks the air out of the room.
00:05:57Devon Godshaw acknowledged that when that field goal block happened, it really was a
00:06:00momentum swing there.
00:06:01But long term, Gerard Mayo also acknowledged, you got to get more out of your passing attack
00:06:05because we don't think this is going to be, you know, 300 yards a game kind of passing
00:06:10offense.
00:06:11You need to be complimentary.
00:06:13I don't think the Patriots did that today.
00:06:15Well, OK, so guys, I will jump in and I get it.
00:06:18But like, what are we talking about?
00:06:20300 yards a game passing?
00:06:21Are we going to be?
00:06:22Is this going to be 150 yards a game passing team?
00:06:25Because it hasn't hit that yet.
00:06:27And look, there's a series of reasons why.
00:06:31And it starts with the O-line.
00:06:33And that's what's going to be the issue.
00:06:36No matter who is playing quarterback, OK, that O-line is going to be a problem.
00:06:41And I don't even know if you have a fair shot to find anybody, you know, open downfield,
00:06:47whether or not they're open, as it was the case last year in some of the film studies
00:06:50showed and even Gerard Mayo kind of defensively said.
00:06:54But I'm going to throw some stats out here.
00:06:56Six three and outs, you know, in the second half, including overtime.
00:07:01OK, DeMario Douglas, three targets through two games with zero today.
00:07:07Yeah, that's that's an excuse.
00:07:09That's why receivers, Patriots wide receivers today, five targets, three receptions, 19
00:07:17yards, the Patriots passing offense and a 32 total passing yards in the second half
00:07:22and overtime. No, it doesn't work like this.
00:07:26So I go and you get the defense and you guys are doing you know, you're pointing out some
00:07:31of the things the defense did today that contributed to today's loss.
00:07:35But if you have a passable offense, you can get away with that.
00:07:40Yeah, there was a miscommunication on the Metcalf, you know, touchdown special teams
00:07:45miscue there, you know, which honestly, I'm going to put that as much on the Jacoby sack
00:07:49that he took, you know, on third down to push them into that field goal, the longer field.
00:07:54I'm not going to go. I'm not putting it all on him.
00:07:56I'm saying the offense took that one.
00:07:58Ultimately, the offense is the offense is the problem right now, probably was the problem
00:08:06last week.
00:08:07But their defense was phenomenal in Cincinnati, didn't look like they were ready to play.
00:08:11It's going to continue to be the offense.
00:08:13And I don't know how it gets better, because this isn't an old line that's going to gel.
00:08:18In fact, as my concern was throughout the year, like it, you're more likely to get worse
00:08:24than better if you suffer an injury somewhere because you're so thin, the replacement level
00:08:29guys coming in, you're already have people playing out of position.
00:08:32So it's kind of a really almost a borderline untenable situation, given how bad that old
00:08:38line is.
00:08:39And you have a quarterback who's not going to press the ball downfield and not going
00:08:41to make plays and not do stuff that's off platform.
00:08:44It's going to be limited.
00:08:45I can't see a way out for this offense right now.
00:08:48That's the thing is, it's kind of grim because I don't know how it gets better.
00:08:52I mean, they definitely need an answer, a tackle somehow, some way, because right now
00:08:55and I don't know how you can lose.
00:08:58You need tackles.
00:08:59You're not going to get tackles.
00:09:01That's the point.
00:09:02That is right.
00:09:03It's their tackles are welcome to the NFL, right?
00:09:06It is.
00:09:07It's a welcome to the NFL moment.
00:09:08But it's also like that.
00:09:09I guess they it goes back to the offseason, right?
00:09:13They tried to do what they what they want to do.
00:09:14We thought Okorafor could could make something work.
00:09:17Obviously, that does not happen.
00:09:19But Darian Lowe is their starter.
00:09:20You think Okorafor might be the backup.
00:09:22Then it flips.
00:09:23Okorafor gets the starting job when Darian Lowe gets hurt.
00:09:25Then he gets benched.
00:09:26Then he doesn't want to play.
00:09:27He doesn't want to be here anymore.
00:09:28So you lose one guy that way.
00:09:29Then Lowe comes in hurt for Okorafor plays OK last week.
00:09:34I thought today he played OK as well, for the most part, and then he gave up wasn't
00:09:39even his fault.
00:09:40That was he was fine.
00:09:41And Michael Jordan tried to give him chip help him off.
00:09:44He got right around him because it gave him extra momentum.
00:09:46So I just wanted to point out, of course, of course, but depth wise, then he gets hurt.
00:09:49Then you have to rely on Caden Wallace to come in as a rookie to try and be your starting
00:09:52left tackle in week three.
00:09:54So again, the depth there and even to like, yes, I give it a little credit.
00:09:58But we're also we're talking about Darian Lowe and Chooks Okorafor here.
00:10:01These aren't all star caliber pro bowl caliber players.
00:10:05They're going to need to address the position more eventually.
00:10:07But right now, there's really just no way to do it, because, again, like you said, welcome
00:10:11to the NFL.
00:10:12There's not a lot of tackles out there.
00:10:13They tried to claim guys in Jacobs and and Zach Thomas.
00:10:16But those guys aren't going to be answers either.
00:10:17Those are depth pieces.
00:10:19Those are depth pieces when, for lack of a better word, shit hits the fan.
00:10:23And now they're in this position in week three and they're already.
00:10:26Zach Thomas is already.
00:10:27And let's also be very real here.
00:10:29I know that we like to throw a very low under the bus.
00:10:31I know we like to throw.
00:10:33Yeah.
00:10:34Before this.
00:10:35Before this started, the shit was already smeared all over the fan.
00:10:37It didn't hit it.
00:10:38OK.
00:10:39With the old line, you knew this was going to be tough.
00:10:41So again, you're going to have to work through it.
00:10:43And they're doing that by trying to be more of a running team and out physical.
00:10:47The other guys.
00:10:48And again, they're able to do that successfully.
00:10:50It's really if that passing offense can possibly turn around with the personnel limitations
00:10:53they have.
00:10:54And Taylor, sorry to jump in there, but this isn't a new problem.
00:10:57I mean, you knew this problem.
00:10:59Yeah.
00:11:00And I mean, I know we like to use Vardarian low as the lightning rod here, but frankly,
00:11:03I didn't notice him in a bad way.
00:11:04Very often, I noticed Mike and when you get beat two or three times pretty badly.
00:11:09So I know we like to talk about all that, you know, the other ways that the tackles
00:11:12they brought in haven't worked out.
00:11:14But in when you didn't have a great game either, that sack that you're talking about for Jacobi
00:11:17percent, I don't understand why he's getting crap for taking that because Leighton Robinson
00:11:21got beat inside.
00:11:22Wow.
00:11:23And when you got beat, there was nowhere for Jacobi to go.
00:11:25So I think it's less on one guy.
00:11:27Just tackle.
00:11:28Everybody needs to play better.
00:11:29Like I said, Michael Jordan is responsible for a sack.
00:11:31Leighton Robinson is responsible for a sack.
00:11:33Mike and when you got beat enough times that you're saying, oh, I was like, man, it's got
00:11:37to be nice if you had the option to put chooks out there on the right side where he is comfortable.
00:11:42So I mean, the reality is it is the NFL.
00:11:44Most people have issues on the offensive line because it's a position of attrition.
00:11:48Not a lot of units make it through the entire season without losing somebody crucial.
00:11:52Obviously, the Patriots are behind the eight ball because they already had tackle problems.
00:11:56But the best case scenario for this unit was the dairy and low just being fine.
00:12:00Then in the interior, you have city.
00:12:01So in Leighton Robinson building week to week and giving you a good pocket.
00:12:05And then if you have to have Mike and when he would tackle as long as he survives, you're
00:12:08fine.
00:12:09I thought everybody contributed to this performance.
00:12:11And another reason why you need to get more involved because you can get the ball out
00:12:15of your quarterback's hands and let the receivers do some of the work so that the offensive
00:12:19line isn't being put in a bad position where like one of the refs that I think it was Michael
00:12:22Jordan lost a sec.
00:12:23He gave up one one on one and I put in my game plan.
00:12:26You cannot let Leonard Williams get a one on one matchup.
00:12:29But to do that, you had to stay out of obvious passing situations.
00:12:31The Seahawks used to rush front, created a one on one with one of the best interior defensive
00:12:36linemen in the league against the guy who's frankly right now on the Patriots practice
00:12:39squad, really smart by Seattle.
00:12:41But there's so many things to go into that.
00:12:43But schematically, you need to give your tackles and your offensive line a bit more
00:12:46help.
00:12:47And I wish they had done that on early downs by trying to get more by just getting the
00:12:50ball.
00:12:51One hundred percent.
00:12:52There are there are times where you can scheme around a poor offensive line play.
00:12:54Right.
00:12:55There was a time where you look to me, you're like, nobody's covering pop right now.
00:12:58There's a five, ten, ten yard cushion right there.
00:13:01Grab the football and throw it to him and see what happens.
00:13:03He's your best offensive player.
00:13:05Have RPOs.
00:13:06They're running them.
00:13:07They're just not throwing the screen up.
00:13:08So I just don't understand why you won't even try and do something like that again.
00:13:10The three targets across two games for him is inexcusable and same with Jalen Polk.
00:13:15I thought he looked good to start the day.
00:13:16The touchdown on the five yard, that five yard obviously.
00:13:19But then nothing after that.
00:13:20It's like the receivers are the problem.
00:13:23Obviously the offensive line is a problem, too, but you can scheme yourself out of that.
00:13:26And they just almost haven't tried to do it yet.
00:13:28They continue to drop Kobe back, make him try and make these reads.
00:13:31Those guys aren't getting open downfield.
00:13:33So he has to make something out of nothing, dump it to a tight end, dump it to a running
00:13:36back, et cetera.
00:13:38It just it doesn't look right right now.
00:13:39And also one more thing I'll add, everybody loves to pile on Jacoby and we want Drake.
00:13:43We want Drake.
00:13:44I like Drake, too.
00:13:46I cannot confidently say he would have avoided as many sacks as Jacoby Brissette did.
00:13:50He was incredible today when it came to getting out of what should have been like, I think
00:13:54the past two weeks, he probably should have been sacked like 10 to 12 times.
00:13:58We're being very honest.
00:13:59His ability to get out of those extend the play didn't always work.
00:14:02But I we got to give a hat to Jacoby Brissette.
00:14:04He was balling as best as he could out here.
00:14:07Obviously you want to see him throw downfield more.
00:14:09I got to look at the tape and see how much that was on him and how much was on the scheme.
00:14:12But like we need to give that guy credit because he's really masking a lot of offensive lines
00:14:17issues right now.
00:14:18So and that's and that's a very nice transition to where I'm going to go next.
00:14:21And I don't want this to sound like it's agenda based because it's not.
00:14:25I have been team May from the get go.
00:14:27But I will ask this question.
00:14:28I will.
00:14:29I will ask this now.
00:14:30I agree 100 percent.
00:14:31Jacoby made, you know, that made a bunch of like really good plays, stepping out of pressure
00:14:39and avoiding.
00:14:40No, I mean, I was trying to describe that when he backpedaled and hit Hunter Henry coming
00:14:45back on that pass play as that should have been a touchdown, by the way.
00:14:49Oh, my God, that could have been a touchdown.
00:14:51But then, you know, just a couple of times being able to just kind of feel it move, you
00:14:55know, move laterally, kind of get out there and this and that.
00:14:58That's fine.
00:14:59That's a good job of staying alive, which is fine.
00:15:02It's good for Jacoby, but it's not necessarily great for the offense in the sense that, well,
00:15:08it didn't.
00:15:09It wasn't the worst thing that could have happened.
00:15:11But did anything great happen off of it?
00:15:13Yeah.
00:15:14In a couple of cases, it kept drives alive and it led to a couple of decent touchdown
00:15:17drives.
00:15:18That's fine.
00:15:19So I'm going to give Jacoby his flowers, I thought, given his limitations physically
00:15:22and who he is as a passer and as a player.
00:15:25He did great also with the line doing what it was doing.
00:15:28He did great for Jacoby.
00:15:29My question is, we've been talking about one of the reasons that, again, the goalpost
00:15:35has been moved on why May isn't playing.
00:15:37He's not.
00:15:38Jacoby won the competition.
00:15:39No, wait, the offensive line is going to get him killed.
00:15:42Well, he needs more seasoning.
00:15:43This has always been part of the plan.
00:15:45I don't know what it actually is, but I will say this.
00:15:49Is it possible?
00:15:50Is it possible that given how receivers, whether they can or can't separate again, the table
00:15:57show what went on today, but you don't have super dynamic receivers and you don't have
00:16:02an offensive line that can protect for long.
00:16:04Would a quarterback with Drake May's improvisational skill set, even if it's unrefined, be better
00:16:11suited for this offense because you may have, this might be it.
00:16:14You might need a guy who's just dancing a little bit, moving, generating stuff with
00:16:19his legs rather than just surviving the pressure, stepping up and running for 15 to 20 yards
00:16:24when it's coming or being able to scramble around long enough for receivers to break
00:16:30off their routes where they were covered initially and maybe get open into space.
00:16:34Is that kind of chaos better to jumpstart the offense, even if you know you're going
00:16:38to live with some mistakes because he's not the same type of professional quarterback
00:16:43who's experienced and has seen a lot as Jacoby Brissett has.
00:16:46So this goes back to the entire conversation of whether or not you should play Drake May
00:16:50and Gerard Mayo saying, we are not going to basically sacrifice the short term for
00:16:54Drake's long-term development.
00:16:56Could Drake have had a couple like 25 yard runs, maybe exploited some downfield windows
00:17:00that may or may not have been available.
00:17:02Sure.
00:17:03Maybe that wouldn't do this game.
00:17:04If I had to watch Drake May get pressured the way Jacoby Brissett has been pressured
00:17:08in the past two weeks, I would have lost my GD mind.
00:17:11I would have freaked out and we would all be talking about how the Patriots are being
00:17:14irresponsible by putting them in a position to develop bad habits behind an offensive
00:17:18line that does not give him time.
00:17:20Yeah.
00:17:21I'm sure Drake may probably is able to maybe pull out a way.
00:17:24I'm not sure, obviously, but I'm saying even if you want to say, yeah, Drake may gets them
00:17:27a win this week, a win for what a win.
00:17:30So they maybe get a wild card spot and then losing the first round.
00:17:32Like I don't care about that.
00:17:34I really don't.
00:17:35If they don't think Drake may is ready to be on the field.
00:17:37I don't want to see him on the field.
00:17:38And from what we're seeing right now, there is no way in hell they are seriously considering
00:17:42putting Drake may in there, especially, but Darian Lomas is extensive time.
00:17:46This is helicopter parenting.
00:17:48I want to say, by the way, this is football and you under helicopter parenting and you
00:17:52say that, but then like the oldest kid is on the street living under a bridge.
00:17:56You know what I'm saying?
00:17:57What are you talking about?
00:17:58Do you understand that?
00:18:00Like somewhere in America this weekend, Caleb Williams and Jaden Daniels will be running
00:18:05for their lives behind shitty offensive lines, trying to make stuff happen improvisationally.
00:18:10Like this is kind of sucks.
00:18:13This is the life of a rookie.
00:18:15That's how it goes.
00:18:17But we always want to talk about Drake may and like the CJ Stroud debate.
00:18:19CJ Stroud had an amazing situation where a lot of his success came off of play action
00:18:24and his offensive coordinator putting him in those positions, but also like the incredible
00:18:28depth that Texans had last year where they kept losing offensive linemen and still got
00:18:31good play out of guys.
00:18:32And they have like five quality wide receivers.
00:18:34Like that's the guy that we talk about when it's, yes, that's the situation.
00:18:37You want to put a young quarterback in, go back to Dak Prescott where he had a great
00:18:40situation because he had an amazing skill position around him.
00:18:44Great offensive line.
00:18:45You don't want to be Caleb Williams and Jaden Daniels where you're having to survive and
00:18:48Jaden Daniels having to leave.
00:18:49There are a little bit.
00:18:51My question was, what might they be better given the chaos?
00:18:54Because right now one of the Jacoby arguments was like, well, he gives them a better chance
00:18:59now and it's going to be ugly with me.
00:19:01Plus the offensive line is bad.
00:19:02Plus he's still developing.
00:19:04Plus Jacoby beat him.
00:19:06You're telling me this quarterback play is better than what you could get anywhere else.
00:19:10What's the, what are we doing?
00:19:11Are you, I don't know.
00:19:12Are you protecting Drake Mays, fragile psyche and afraid he's going to get hurt playing?
00:19:19I don't think it's a psyche thing.
00:19:21I don't think it's like a, I don't think it's the helicopter baby and quarterback thing
00:19:25that you think it is, John.
00:19:26I think it's simply, they don't think he's ready to play yet.
00:19:29That's why they're, they're putting this on him slowly, the 30% stuff in practice.
00:19:34He's only getting, or he's getting 30% of the reps and he's splitting up with Jacoby,
00:19:37which we argued maybe it's not right for Jacoby to only be getting 70% of it.
00:19:41And they should actually dial that back a little bit.
00:19:44If that's going to be your quarterback.
00:19:45Cause they are kind of, like you said, over on both sides of the fence with it here.
00:19:50Right.
00:19:51But I still think that you go in.
00:19:52Yeah.
00:19:53Real quick.
00:19:54You're right.
00:19:55But development aside, if there's a plan, but why should the development decide?
00:19:58You can't just put development, that is the reason why we're here.
00:20:04Development you look, there's no, you guys don't have the playbook on development, which
00:20:09says sit him six games and now he's developed it.
00:20:13There's no right or wrong here.
00:20:14He could be developing playing.
00:20:16Nobody has the answer.
00:20:17So let's stop pretending any of us do.
00:20:19We don't actually know.
00:20:21We don't actually know what's bad or good.
00:20:24We don't.
00:20:25What I'll ask is if how much more of this passing offense is tolerable the way it is
00:20:33now before you look at it and say, let's give the kid a shot.
00:20:36That's what I'm asking.
00:20:38That's what I'm asking.
00:20:39We all have our different opinions on whether they should or shouldn't.
00:20:43I'm asking at what point do you look at it and be like, we've got to do something like
00:20:47a lot of times, rookie quarterbacks start for that reason, not because teams deemed
00:20:50them ready.
00:20:51The ones who are on the bench is time to see if we can give it a jolt here.
00:20:55When do you, how many 150 yard passing games do you go through before you try for that
00:21:00ugly, imperfect, messy jolts that the young quarterback would give you?
00:21:05To me, it ends up being the answer is the win and the loss column, right?
00:21:09Because they won week one, despite it.
00:21:11And they were okay.
00:21:12This is how we want to play.
00:21:13If we can get another win, like they almost did on the field behind us, then it buys them
00:21:17more time to, to baby him, if you will.
00:21:20And if you want to call it that and to continue to give him slowly the reps.
00:21:23But if it continues like this and you keep losing like you just did today, then it speeds
00:21:28up that process.
00:21:29It's so, okay, let's see it get ugly because now we have the losses.
00:21:32We might, we're going to lose two, three, four games in the standings type thing where,
00:21:36okay, now the wins and losses don't really matter.
00:21:39So let's just see what happens with this kid, not to, and not just see what happens aimlessly
00:21:42and irresponsibly, but at a point where, okay, maybe it's not going to be perfect, but at
00:21:47least let's try and see what it looks like in a real game action, because the coaches
00:21:50continue to say, you don't learn football unless you play football.
00:21:54And I know that this is a reaction show, but this feels super reactionary in a way that
00:21:58it makes my tummy kind of feel wrong, because I think that the plan for Drake may, it might
00:22:03have been the second lobster.
00:22:04I'm not going to lie, but honestly, the plan for Drake may, it feels like it's pretty simple.
00:22:08If Jacoby Bursette is playing well and Drake may is not ready.
00:22:11Jacoby will keep playing.
00:22:12If Jacoby is playing poorly and Drake may is still not ready.
00:22:15You're just going to have to bite.
00:22:16We don't know that.
00:22:17We do not know that we are guessing that from my perspective.
00:22:20Yes.
00:22:21Yes.
00:22:22It's fine.
00:22:23This is Taylor.
00:22:24This is Tay's guess.
00:22:25I'm saying Jacoby Bursette is playing poorly and Drake may still not ready.
00:22:27You don't throw him out there.
00:22:28We have gotten no indication.
00:22:29Everything that we heard from this team is that they're not going to throw him in there
00:22:32if they don't think he's ready.
00:22:33If Drake may is playing well in practice and it's like what we've been talking about for
00:22:36months where at some point the defense going to be like, damn, this kid is really like
00:22:41carving us up.
00:22:42If we're having trouble facing him and we're one of the best defenses in the league.
00:22:45Yeah.
00:22:46He should probably be playing and then start learning on the field.
00:22:48I think when Jacoby starts playing poorly continuously and it starts to become week
00:22:52after week and then Drake may in practice is doing enough.
00:22:55That's when he plays.
00:22:57I don't think that there's any level of suck you could see from Jacoby that will get this
00:23:00team to throw Drake may into the fire if they're in practice and they're like, I don't think
00:23:04he's ready yet because if they don't, the organization's entire legacy is tethered to
00:23:07him.
00:23:08Drake, uh, Alex Van Pelt, Gerard Mayo, Elliot Wolf all know if Drake may is destroyed and
00:23:13they get him hit all the time and you know, he starts getting in his head.
00:23:16Maybe I don't think he's sensitive.
00:23:17I don't think he's fragile.
00:23:18I think he's tough, but it doesn't matter.
00:23:20Drew Bledsoe was as tough as they came until he got the shit kicked out of him for years
00:23:24and didn't want to step up in the pocket anymore.
00:23:26They know that if that happens to Drake and they are scared, they are scarred by them.
00:23:29That's great.
00:23:30So I will ask what to be extra care.
00:23:31I get it.
00:23:32This year is not going to get them fired.
00:23:33The next two years we'll get them fired if they don't get it.
00:23:36But we do understand also, right?
00:23:38That no, no matter how ready he gets in practice or how ready they think he is after getting
00:23:45his 30% of his snaps or whatever's going on right now, he's going to go in eventually
00:23:52at some point behind this old line with these receivers and get his first NFL action and
00:23:58be absolutely lost, clueless, face a ton of pressure and fall into bad habits.
00:24:03The same thing is going to happen week five as what happened week two or week three.
00:24:06So no matter what, I don't know, it's hurt by the way, just so you know, city, so is
00:24:11not playing.
00:24:12It's not going to be the same line.
00:24:13I don't necessarily agree with that because this is that trial run where, okay, you lose,
00:24:17you lose chooks, you lose low and it's not pretty and it might get worse.
00:24:21But if it does continue to get worse, then maybe you don't play me.
00:24:24Then maybe you say, okay, this isn't ready this year.
00:24:27It's not ready right now.
00:24:29It would be bad.
00:24:30I don't disagree with that.
00:24:31If you, if you can't get your offensive line figured out for a week 17 and you can't play
00:24:36your quarterback, not because he's not ready, but because the rest of your team isn't ready.
00:24:39I agree that that's a bad look.
00:24:41However, this is still that extension of the preseason.
00:24:44That's still, is it?
00:24:45This is still a trial run to try and see what's the best opportunity to finally give this
00:24:49guy a decent landing spot to go out there and play.
00:24:52So I hate to say, let's give him more time because we're doing a show right now.
00:24:56And that's the, that's the point to react here.
00:24:59But I just, I don't think there has to be a necessarily a panic button for quarterback
00:25:03play yet.
00:25:04I think quarterback play and the ability to go get 15 yards instead of five yards or find
00:25:09hunter Henry instead of scrambling for 20 or something.
00:25:11I don't think that's the problem right now.
00:25:13I still think it's everything outside of the position that has the 20 points a game.
00:25:18That's not the biggest problem.
00:25:19As we said right now, again, look, you went X amount of years neglecting very important
00:25:26positions and that's what you're seeing right now.
00:25:29You're seeing no, no tackles.
00:25:31You're seeing a guard playing tackle and having not a great game as Taylor mentioned today
00:25:36with a, with a, you know, excuse me, I'm sorry about that real quick because I do have a
00:25:46little thought.
00:25:47So with the offensive line, I don't think it's fair to say that they're going to get
00:25:54worse definitively when we've seen the Darien low look like a completely different player
00:25:59than he looked like this time last year, late in Robinson, going from a guy who we weren't
00:26:02even thinking about starting week one to being someone who, yeah, he's up and down, but it's
00:26:06showing plenty of good tape where you would expect week after week.
00:26:09Okay.
00:26:10You lost on this, get better at this.
00:26:11I didn't notice any line games or anything, giving him problems.
00:26:13We didn't see any crazy unblocked pressures, obviously very quick pressures.
00:26:18But I think that we did see him get better.
00:26:19Then David Andrews, Mike, and when this was a bad game for him, he's one of your best
00:26:22players.
00:26:23You hope he gets better.
00:26:24But I think it's disingenuous to say that the offensive line is going to get worse when
00:26:27city.
00:26:28So it's not even in the lineup.
00:26:29Like if he's healthy and he can get in the mix and then kind of like late in Robinson,
00:26:32be able to build in this strike system in the Scott Peter system that again has shown
00:26:36tangible results.
00:26:37Like you cannot tell me that the guys on this offensive line aren't playing better than
00:26:41they were at the beginning of the spring when I think we all were much more.
00:26:44I agree with what I'm just saying.
00:26:45Like for my take, I think it's fair to think that they can improve.
00:26:49I'm not guaranteeing they will, but if help is on their side, they get guys back.
00:26:52Tackle depth is definitely going to be the tackles are going to be a continued problem.
00:26:57You have no, there's no question about that.
00:26:59So there's, that's the problem.
00:27:01And then I said, should you suffer injuries, which happens in football, you're going in
00:27:05the wrong direction.
00:27:06I don't think the play is going to get worse.
00:27:07All I'm saying is this is not all of a sudden going to turn into a line.
00:27:11You feel great about simply because you know, you don't have them have the guys on the outside
00:27:16that you want to have on the outside and you don't really have any depth there.
00:27:19Certainly guys can get better and they like their rookies and they like cities out.
00:27:23So if he comes back, so there's, it's not going to be awful.
00:27:26I think they'll be able to run the ball.
00:27:27I'm saying, are they going to be able to protect long enough to be able to generate any sort
00:27:31of passing game?
00:27:32Or is this just going to be how it's going to be?
00:27:34And how long are you going to kind of sit on, well, it's a passing league, but we've
00:27:38got to be a running team because this is what we've chosen to do.
00:27:41And at what point do you decide, let's try to be something different.
00:27:45If you can or can't at one point or another, you're going to do it.
00:27:48It's just a matter of when, but you're a hundred percent right.
00:27:51The story of today's game is not, you got to get Jacoby out of there and give the kid
00:27:55a shot.
00:27:56I'm just looking at all the limitations this team has and wonder at what point you're like,
00:28:01this isn't going to be anything really.
00:28:03So all we're doing is just kind of waiting out the clock.
00:28:08Because I don't think with what we have now, we're going to be able to generate anything,
00:28:12certainly on the passing side of the ball.
00:28:15Let's flip it off of this.
00:28:16I want to talk about, we talked about how good the coaches did in game one.
00:28:21I want to get your perspective on the coaching today, the play calling, whether or not you
00:28:26thought things were as clean this time around.
00:28:29But first we do want to tell everybody at home again about our lovely sponsor here,
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00:29:33As we mentioned, Pearl Jam, I don't know, I'm kind of curious what we have going on
00:29:37right now.
00:29:38I may go right after this show.
00:29:43I'm not kidding.
00:29:44I'm going to go right after this show.
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00:29:51Download it, create the account, use that code CLNS, 20 bucks off your first purchase
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00:30:09Amit, I don't know which box this is.
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00:30:1341 bucks for Pearl Jam on game time right now.
00:30:16I'm going.
00:30:17I'm going.
00:30:18630.
00:30:19We don't have time.
00:30:20All right, we got to wrap this up.
00:30:21But if you're at home, well, don't leave the show.
00:30:22Grab your phone, put the show on, get in your car.
00:30:25You guys stay.
00:30:26Everybody stay.
00:30:27Yeah, we're staying.
00:30:28Yeah, fair, fair, fair.
00:30:29Yeah, I know.
00:30:30You guys got to stay.
00:30:32So what do we think here?
00:30:33And again, if we want to quickly, if we want to quickly look at that prospects lineup that
00:30:36I did today, unfortunately, John, because the Patriots pass defense wasn't good and
00:30:42they continue to allow Gino Smith to get to get there and get 300 yards.
00:30:45He also didn't have less than 32 and a half passing attempts, which I had on prospects.
00:30:49Jalen Polk starts the game five yard receiving touchdown.
00:30:52I had him to have more than 17 and a half receiving yards.
00:30:55That didn't happen.
00:30:56It was DK.
00:30:57It's about DK and DK Metcalf Taylor's pick.
00:31:00It was he wanted him to have less than 21 and a half yards on his longest reception.
00:31:05It looked OK until that coverage for the touchdown.
00:31:08So no good.
00:31:09No, just kidding.
00:31:10We're coming.
00:31:11Yeah, we're coming back later.
00:31:12We're coming back tonight.
00:31:13We'll have a Sunday night football prospects lineup for you.
00:31:15Make sure you go to their use the code and we'll try and hit next week's for the Patriots
00:31:19as well.
00:31:20Yeah.
00:31:21How do you think these guys did on the on the on the plate?
00:31:24Like, again, it's hard to say until you kind of look at everything here.
00:31:27But again, it all comes down to the limitations.
00:31:30Line can't block, you know, receivers aren't, you know, Jacoby's not pressing it downfield.
00:31:34You are a little bit limited with what you're doing.
00:31:35Do you want to see a little bit more creativity here?
00:31:38You think that this is the best they can do?
00:31:40I would definitely like to see a little bit more creativity.
00:31:42I also understand it's early.
00:31:44So maybe they just don't want to like outthink themselves.
00:31:46Like if people are going to say that the play where Caden Wallace got flagged the unbalanced
00:31:50formation.
00:31:51It's like, oh, you're getting cute.
00:31:52Like, that's why I think Gerard Mayo took responsibility, because it's not that it was
00:31:55a bad idea.
00:31:56I think in theory it was fine.
00:31:57It's a different look.
00:31:59But you didn't execute it right now.
00:32:00That does fall on the coaches.
00:32:01I honestly did like a lot that Alex didn't help got back to their bread and butter in
00:32:05the third quarter.
00:32:06He's like, we are not moving the ball the way we want to.
00:32:09Let's pound the rock.
00:32:10Do what we do best.
00:32:11He committed to it.
00:32:12They did not stray away and it worked really well.
00:32:14I thought that was awesome.
00:32:15But at the same time, like you can't really justify to Mario Douglas having zero touches
00:32:19in a game that was this close after you'd already said he and Polk were going to be
00:32:23more involved.
00:32:24That part of the game plan, I have a huge issue with.
00:32:26But again, I did like the fact that Alex and Pelt was like, you know what?
00:32:28We need to get back to basics.
00:32:30They were able to do it.
00:32:31And obviously, you know, had a really impressive drive.
00:32:34Unfortunately, they had their field goal blocked and, you know, things went poorly towards the
00:32:38end of it.
00:32:39But I at least like that.
00:32:40They did lean on it and actually get to score one touchdown, unfortunately, you know, got
00:32:44stopped after that.
00:32:45And I still I still have no problem with Gerard Mayo's coaching job through two weeks of this
00:32:48thing.
00:32:49Right.
00:32:50I mean, like the fourth and one decision.
00:32:51Yeah.
00:32:52Maybe you go for that.
00:32:53But that's not like a major gaffe.
00:32:54Right.
00:32:55That's how I make that.
00:32:56It's a field goal automatically.
00:32:57So that's not like calling a double timeout or like challenge a play.
00:32:59You can't.
00:33:00And getting a timeout taken away.
00:33:01They're like there hasn't been any like stupid mistakes from Gerard Mayo, which I think is
00:33:04huge going into your second NFL game now again.
00:33:07Fourth and one.
00:33:08You might want to see him go go for that or burn a timeout for a 12 minute on the field
00:33:13at one point.
00:33:14That was pretty.
00:33:15And so and also another like the coaching board.
00:33:16I'll go back to it.
00:33:18The the Caden Wallace being uncovered, right?
00:33:20Like if you're going to get if you're going to get cute with that kind of stuff, you have
00:33:23to make sure that it's going to work.
00:33:25Like I think of and when I saw Hunter Henry in the tackle position, all I could think
00:33:28of was that 2014, which 2014 team was here today.
00:33:31But that 2014 drive against the Ravens, where they had all the young men on the line of
00:33:35scrimmage with who man and Shane Vareen, like they practiced that all season long, took
00:33:39it out in the AFC divisional round game, and they knew that they practiced it all year
00:33:43long and they knew that it was going to work.
00:33:45Now, this is week two.
00:33:46I don't know how long they've been practicing it.
00:33:48But when you have to when you kind of do something like that, you have to make sure it works
00:33:51because it just bites you in the it just bites you in the ass, especially when you're going
00:33:55down and trying to win a football game in the fourth quarter.
00:33:57But Van Pelt's play calling, OK, I think there was more mental mistakes from the players,
00:34:03especially in the secondary, than there was coaching gaps today.
00:34:07I'm still fine with Mayo's performance, like the plan that Demarcus Covington had.
00:34:10I know there were a couple of times they dropped Keon White and Joshua Uche in the deep zones.
00:34:14I kind of joked with Uche.
00:34:15I mean, he wasn't really in the mood to talk, but I kind of joked, like, I don't think you've
00:34:18dropped that far in a coverage since college because they haven't really used him in that
00:34:21capacity.
00:34:22The first time they did it, it actually worked.
00:34:24The second time, you know, Smith was like, please don't play with me.
00:34:26And that's why he threw it right behind Keon White's earhole and was able to complete it.
00:34:30But I like the idea of the plan and even the busted coverage.
00:34:33Kyle Duggar acknowledged that that was an adjustment that he made.
00:34:36I did like the plan, but it also just got to a point in the game where I think we all
00:34:39felt that, you know, Smith was locked in.
00:34:41Give him a ton of credit.
00:34:43First of all, he mentioned how the Seahawks were using no huddle, not to try to get things
00:34:47fast, but to keep the Patriots personnel groupings on the field, lower the effectiveness of their
00:34:52pressure packages, and be able to know what the defense was doing.
00:34:55Because if it's no huddle, he was mentioning Ryan Grubb was in Washington last year.
00:34:59He brought that college style to the Patriots, I'm sorry, to the Seahawks.
00:35:03And then in the pros, like Godshall was saying, it's kind of tough with your four-man rush.
00:35:06Like that's run-stopping personnel.
00:35:08And if you go hurry up and you're in more of a passing situation, then you're going
00:35:11to run up against a bigger interior that's not as well set to get after the quarterback.
00:35:16Also I know they mentioned Gino Smith's snap count.
00:35:18And just bottom line, Gino clearly had the defense figured out by the second half.
00:35:22That's going to happen in a game like this where it's so back and forth and you have
00:35:24a smart quarterback.
00:35:26Like there were times they would try to drop the edge guys, you know, have a blitz from
00:35:29one side and then drop coverage.
00:35:31But Gino Smith kept getting outside of it, extending plays, using his legs, delivering
00:35:35accurate throws.
00:35:36Really, we were saying in the box, like they're going to have to punch the ball out.
00:35:39They need a turnover, but it's not going to come from Gino.
00:35:41Gino's not putting this ball in harm's way.
00:35:43He's going to make the smart decisions.
00:35:45That's why once they got the ball back, I was like, I don't mind you not going for the
00:35:48fourth and one because it would be so catastrophic if it didn't work.
00:35:51Right.
00:35:52But at the same time, like Gino's a very good quarterback and it's the same deal that you
00:35:55would like people have with Tom Brady for years, where with some quarterbacks, you're
00:35:58just like, oh no, like there's not anything you're going to throw to me as a scene and
00:36:02he's very effective.
00:36:03So we got to tip our cap to Gino Smith as well.
00:36:05Obviously, Gino, I know that's not what you're saying.
00:36:07He's not on that kind of level, really, as far as like when he's playing this well and
00:36:11he's in a groove like he was today, it almost felt like they were going to get three on
00:36:15that drive.
00:36:16And so people got mad at the Tyler Lockett, DPI and John Jones.
00:36:18He caught it.
00:36:19It really doesn't matter if it was DPI.
00:36:21He caught the ball.
00:36:22Well, please throw from Gino Smith.
00:36:25Exactly.
00:36:26What else we want to talk about?
00:36:27Let's see.
00:36:28Special teams didn't have any bigger turns to Marcus Jones.
00:36:31I'm still here.
00:36:32One solid one early on.
00:36:33Oh, OK.
00:36:34There we go.
00:36:35Oh, sorry, guys.
00:36:36I was here.
00:36:37I was wanting to push myself back to where I wanted to be like the DPI thing on the Jonathan
00:36:41Jones.
00:36:42Again, it was interesting that, you know, Lockett told him that it wasn't kind of, you
00:36:46know, funny there.
00:36:48But, you know, the amount of like the amount of the defense got carved up a little bit
00:36:55by Gino Smith was slightly alarming, for sure.
00:36:57And again, I don't know how much you can tell from your vantage point watching the game
00:37:00or you need to get to the film.
00:37:02But like how much is on the DBs here?
00:37:04As you said, you know, you thought, you know, had some stuff figured out, but like how much
00:37:08was just I'm getting beat.
00:37:10Honestly, there was like the man beater that they had on the third down to the running
00:37:13back.
00:37:14Like that was perfect.
00:37:15They knew in a critical situation, the Patriots are going to play man got shot, knew that
00:37:18they knew.
00:37:19I asked him, I was like, did you know it was going to be a man beater?
00:37:21He's like, yeah, it was just a good play by them.
00:37:23A lot of the things that they had effectiveness with, I think it was just zones and Gino being
00:37:26like, yep, I'm just going to keep making the easy throw, easy throw against man coverage.
00:37:30Those back shoulder fades.
00:37:31He was going to those.
00:37:32Those are difficult to defend.
00:37:34Um, we were talking to John Saranidis about how difficult it is to defend those because
00:37:38unlike most routes, it starts vertical and then kind of bends at the end when you're
00:37:42not really expecting it because you're, you think the routes already declared and then
00:37:45last minute it turns into something else.
00:37:47So obviously the tape will tell the tale, but I thought for the most part, it really
00:37:51wasn't that the defense was bad.
00:37:53It's just that Gino Smith is a smart quarterback.
00:37:55He's seen a lot of defenses and you're not going to rattle him very often.
00:37:58Even when they got pressure, there was a play where peppers was screaming around the corner.
00:38:02Godshaw pointed that one out and he was still able to make a tough throw last week.
00:38:06Even Gino Smith for the game winner, he connected with Tyler Lockett right before he was getting
00:38:11hit.
00:38:12Perfect throw right where Tyler Lockett could get it and his defender couldn't.
00:38:15It's just when you give a quarterback that many opportunities, you're kind of shooting
00:38:17yourself in the foot.
00:38:19And that's what Godshaw said.
00:38:20He said, we had to put the game away.
00:38:21We needed to just bury them early on and we couldn't do it.
00:38:24And again, when you give a quarterback like Gino Smith, who's talented, has a great supporting
00:38:28cast around him and has seen a lot.
00:38:30If you give him the ball in overtime, it's going to be very, very difficult to stop him
00:38:34unless you make a play on one of those receivers.
00:38:35The one thing I'll say too, though, is like a guy like Jackson Smith and Jigwa.
00:38:39I just I was looking at the stats as you were kind of going up there.
00:38:42This was his best career game.
00:38:4312 catches, 117 yards.
00:38:45That was the matchup we were talking about.
00:38:47This is his first career 100 yard game.
00:38:49I want to say it's his first career double digit catch game.
00:38:51And now he's only in his second year.
00:38:53So he is third game in the second year.
00:38:54He did drop one as well.
00:38:55So like those are guys where I look at this Patriot secondary.
00:38:58I look at DeMarcus Covington, a veteran defensive coach in the NFL, and it's like that's one
00:39:03of those guys where Jackson Smith and Jigwa shouldn't beat you for a buck, a buck, 17
00:39:07and on 12 catches like kind of I don't know, you want obviously you want to take out your
00:39:11DK Metcalf.
00:39:12You want to take out exactly.
00:39:13You have this three headed monster.
00:39:14Yeah.
00:39:15You let Jason beat you.
00:39:16And OK, that's fine.
00:39:17But he also lost the game.
00:39:18Yeah.
00:39:19But again, it's because of the touchdowns and those touchdowns had nothing to do.
00:39:22Jason.
00:39:23No, that was Tyler Lockett.
00:39:24He got the flag.
00:39:25So Tyler Lockett and DK Metcalf outside of obviously the long touchdown, you contain
00:39:29those guys.
00:39:30Jason goes for 100 yards.
00:39:31I do not care.
00:39:33You are very rarely going to hold three receivers under 100 yards.
00:39:36If it's the third option, that's what Bill Belichick always talks about.
00:39:39Make them play left handed.
00:39:40They couldn't go to Tyler Lockett with any consistency.
00:39:42They couldn't go to DK with any consistency.
00:39:44I don't care that Jason had his best career game.
00:39:46If you had told me that before the game, I'm like, oh, OK, so they must have done pretty
00:39:49well.
00:39:50Yeah.
00:39:51I'm OK with that.
00:39:52So I don't I don't really have a problem with with it.
00:39:54DK had 10 catches.
00:39:56Oh, a lot of those he was getting force fed.
00:39:58Yeah, I know.
00:39:59I know he had outside.
00:40:00It was a 50 or 130, 130.
00:40:02So you think that he would have had under a hundred yards, I guess, but it's not a bad
00:40:04plan. No, it's not. It's not terrible.
00:40:06But I just a long story short, I wish we saw more of the defense back today.
00:40:11I mean, again, it wasn't terrible, but they didn't do enough to win the game.
00:40:14And we said if they were going to win, it was going to be because Marcus Jones did
00:40:18struggle against Jason because there was a huge size mismatch.
00:40:21Marcus Jones was still competitive.
00:40:22But again, you know, a lot of it, not all of it was against man coverage.
00:40:25Sometimes it's zone. It's hard to know.
00:40:26Jason's one of those guys who wins underneath for the most part anyway.
00:40:29So I feel like that's why it was kind of sneaky.
00:40:31Those yards start to pile up as the game goes on.
00:40:34So, yeah, I honestly I feel like I'm going to look at the tape and be like the
00:40:37coverage wasn't that bad. They just had a handful of really bad moments.
00:40:41Yeah. And that's the thing is like at the end of the day, what's lost in the, you
00:40:44know, the snap reaction or the judgment of the conversation we had earlier about,
00:40:47you know, passing game limitations, when is it going to be time for me?
00:40:50Look, everyone's going to ask that question all the times for multiple reasons.
00:40:55One is, you know, you're you're you're plodding along at eight miles an hour and
00:40:59you can't get anywhere and you got a Ferrari in the driveway that, you know,
00:41:03still needs a lot of work.
00:41:04And like maybe the wheels are too slick and maybe the brakes aren't necessarily
00:41:08working on it, but it really goes fast.
00:41:10And I want to take it out like that's that urge is going to be there the whole
00:41:14time. You don't know if it's going backwards or forwards, but it's going to
00:41:16do it. You got this shiny toy.
00:41:18That's always going to be part of the conversation, but it's not really it.
00:41:21This team has currently constituted with Jacoby Brissett, a quarterback, has played
00:41:24two competitive football games, which is more than most people expected them to do.
00:41:30And so that's still real.
00:41:32And this game was not only winnable, it's actually file it under should have won a
00:41:37game here. And so they can continue to plot along here against a few of the teams
00:41:44that they're playing. And again, you look at this daunting schedule.
00:41:47The Jets coming up ahead, winnable, whatever, like not, not, not, not as
00:41:53advertised yet. And San Fran, who are the only tape we had on them this year was how
00:41:58freaking good they were against the Jets, goes out and lays a lays an egg today
00:42:03against Minnesota. So all of a sudden, speaking of score, I think twenty three
00:42:07seventeen or speaking of former Jets who have revived their career, Sam Darnold
00:42:13kicked butt today for Minnesota, but it's out here kicking butt as well.
00:42:17It's like the Jets are a place you just don't want to go as a quarterback under any
00:42:20circumstances. So this team, if they don't, if they limit mistake again, what stinks is
00:42:26when you are the Patriots and you have the personnel limitations they have, you do have
00:42:30to almost pitch a perfect game most most days.
00:42:32And that was what was so impressive about week one is how well coached and
00:42:36professional that game was and how prepared.
00:42:39So it's almost like, oh, you know, they had a couple of mistakes today.
00:42:42You didn't expect that.
00:42:43But that's football.
00:42:44That's going to happen.
00:42:45It's hard to play perfect.
00:42:46But if they do clean it up on that, you know, especially on the defensive side of
00:42:51the ball, I think these next two weeks that you're looking at, which looked like LL
00:42:57automatic, aren't necessarily automatic.
00:43:00Yeah, also one other girls who's in quarterback, I agree in this kind of going
00:43:05against because it's negative, one sneaky thing that needs to get corrected.
00:43:08Ramond is ball security.
00:43:09Oh, yeah.
00:43:09He fumbled twice in the past two weeks.
00:43:12Both of them would have been catastrophic.
00:43:14Now, luckily, those drives turned into touchdowns.
00:43:17But Ramond has been pretty good about ball security for most of his career.
00:43:20But in two weeks in a row with a fumble like that cannot happen.
00:43:23So but for the most part, I totally agree.
00:43:26And I think that this is a team that is built where they can, like we said last
00:43:30week, drag you into the mud and say, no, you're not going to play the kind of style
00:43:33of offense you want to play.
00:43:35You're going to play what we want to play.
00:43:36And I think it's a plan that works.
00:43:38Even if you go back last year to the Chiefs game, like that's a Super Bowl
00:43:41champions, and they were completely in that game until the very end.
00:43:44So every time they go up against these great offenses, I know people like to say
00:43:47you can't win with defense.
00:43:48You can't win running the ball.
00:43:49Devon gotcha.
00:43:50I mentioned, well, the teams in the Super Bowl, they can all run the ball.
00:43:53They all have good defenses.
00:43:54The quarterbacks obviously make the difference.
00:43:56That is the great equalizer where it's like, yeah, if you have my homes or Josh
00:44:00Allen, it's nice to have a run game and a good defense, but they're going to give
00:44:03you a way bigger margin for error.
00:44:05Then you have a Jacoby Brissette.
00:44:06Who's not quite as athletically gifted, doesn't have the arm.
00:44:09Maybe he used to have, I'm wondering, honestly, now at this point, how much of
00:44:13that has to do with him not going downfield.
00:44:14I don't want to start a storyline because I need to see the tape, but again, I think
00:44:18that they can run this style, but like you said, the margin for error is so slim.
00:44:22So that's my question.
00:44:23I'll ask you guys.
00:44:23Cause again, the tape will show you certain things, but going back to last
00:44:27week and then seeing what they did again today, uh, in terms of, you know,
00:44:31explosive plays, plays downfield.
00:44:32And my question is, what is it based on your, you know, having looked at last
00:44:38week's tape and then just watching again today, is it the offensive line, simply
00:44:43not giving you enough time to, uh, to Jacoby enough time to be able to set
00:44:47his feet and to look downfield the Patriot.
00:44:50That's option one option to the Patriots have said our number one thing above
00:44:55all else is to not turn the ball over.
00:44:57So do not press it at all.
00:44:58Take what's there.
00:44:59Don't take any risks.
00:45:00Not even 20% risks.
00:45:02If you think it can get picked and you don't see it clean, don't take it.
00:45:06We're much better off as a ball security team or three.
00:45:09He's I'll even go for three.
00:45:11He's not seeing them because he's running for his life a little bit or four.
00:45:15He sees them, but doesn't have enough faith in his own arm to be able to get
00:45:20the ball there and to make those throws.
00:45:22I, it could be a combination of them, but which is most happening right now
00:45:26with the Patriots, lack of even an attempt to press the ball.
00:45:30Cause as a let's put football X and O aside from the fan perspective, you do
00:45:37want to see something different because you just want it to be fun again.
00:45:41You want to see them attack and be more aggressive and you don't want to
00:45:45have to win by a thousand paper cuts.
00:45:47It just might be what they have to do to stay competitive, given what they've got.
00:45:51But it's the NFL.
00:45:53It's the modern day NFL.
00:45:54You've got to figure out whether you can do that or if you want to do that, or
00:45:59you have to at least try to do it.
00:46:00I don't know that it's tenable to not.
00:46:02So what's preventing this from happening right now?
00:46:05My number one is still the offensive line.
00:46:07I think it all stems from there, John, because you look, I mean, I don't think
00:46:11Jacoby's not trying enough, like hard enough to push the ball downfield.
00:46:14And, and I don't think he has in his mind that I can't make mistakes.
00:46:17I think that's his nature.
00:46:18But I mean, you saw last week, he almost threw an
00:46:20interception in the end zone.
00:46:21There were a couple of times today where he tried to force a throw or it looked
00:46:23like he was kind of falling backwards and had someone on his ankle.
00:46:25And he would just kind of chuck it at someone's feet.
00:46:27But you couldn't tell if he was trying to get it to them either.
00:46:29It was just a bad throw.
00:46:30And it was like, wait, maybe just throw the ball away and don't try and make a
00:46:33mistake.
00:46:33And we also saw last week after looking at the film, guys were open a lot of the
00:46:37times.
00:46:38And now granted, one of the plays where everybody was open, he had time and
00:46:43decided to just check it, check it down.
00:46:44But there were other times where Jalen Polk was open almost all day.
00:46:47And I don't know if he wasn't finding them, but I think he wasn't finding him
00:46:50because of the offensive line, because he wasn't having enough time.
00:46:53So I think that that's kind of the, the crux of it is that it starts and ends
00:46:58there.
00:46:58Um, and once, once, and if they can figure that out, it might start to match a
00:47:01little bit more.
00:47:02I agree.
00:47:03It's a combination of factors.
00:47:04I think one, it'll help if you get the ball to your receivers, like this needs
00:47:07to be an opportunistic passing game, which means when guys are open, you've
00:47:11got to hit them.
00:47:11Yeah.
00:47:12It's not going to be perfect.
00:47:13I don't think it's going to be clean.
00:47:14It's going to be ugly.
00:47:15But when you have those open plays, you got to hit them.
00:47:19Like sometimes the pressure is going to be there.
00:47:20Sometimes the guys aren't open in time, but I think it's just fair to say that
00:47:23it is a combination of factors.
00:47:24I'm not sure how much it's one or the other last week.
00:47:27I think you could definitively say that they left plays on the field because
00:47:30they weren't hitting those open receivers this week.
00:47:32That's a little bit more like the pressure was at fault.
00:47:35Um, but again, when Jalen poke into Mario Douglas the same week, the coaches
00:47:39are like, Oh yeah, we're seeing it.
00:47:40They're open.
00:47:40We're going to get involved.
00:47:42And they're not really involved.
00:47:44You know, at that point I'm like, okay, well, I don't even know whether to
00:47:46really believe that or whether it is a situation where it's just the offensive
00:47:50line, because I refuse to believe that tomorrow Douglas went this
00:47:52entire game and wasn't open.
00:47:55Yeah.
00:47:56Yeah.
00:47:56And so I guess that's it is you're going to be looking and say, where am I?
00:48:00From where am I getting more, you know, and, and, and how can, you know,
00:48:05and how can that happen?
00:48:07And again, it could be anything.
00:48:08It could be Jacoby just taking risks.
00:48:11He's not ready to take, it could be some more creativity on play calling.
00:48:14It could be a change at the quarterback position, but we're not talking about
00:48:17that because it's irresponsible and immature and it's just, you know,
00:48:21nonsense agenda setting.
00:48:23So I'm not going to get into that.
00:48:24If they John, but if they, they won last week.
00:48:28And the first thing you asked me on postgame was should Drake may have played
00:48:31a tick.
00:48:31They won the game, dude.
00:48:32They won the game.
00:48:33Like I'll tell you what, I don't care what happens.
00:48:35I don't care what happens after the jets game.
00:48:36What do you think the first question you're going to be asked is
00:48:38of course.
00:48:39And again, that's, it's, it's the only thing that matters.
00:48:42It's at the end of the day, you are right.
00:48:45As far as, uh, it just clipped that John at the end of the day, you are right.
00:48:49But no, as far as
00:48:51did you draft a franchise quarterback or not?
00:48:53I just, I'm impatient.
00:48:55I want to know now it's, I can't wait.
00:48:57And it's understandable.
00:48:58Right.
00:48:59But they also guys, they, they won, they won week one.
00:49:03They lose week two.
00:49:04If they lose week three, if they lose week four, then it starts.
00:49:07Yeah.
00:49:07That, then the heat turns up a little bit more and then you start to actually
00:49:10wonder, and if Jacoby resets playing worse in those games, then it's going to
00:49:13happen.
00:49:13But until it's like, we've talked about it catastrophic.
00:49:16I don't see a reason to rush me out there.
00:49:18If they don't think he's ready behind the scenes.
00:49:20Like, again, this is a game that we lost when the defense literally just like
00:49:24wrapped it up, put a nice little shiny bow on it, gave it a little kiss and
00:49:27hand it as a Seahawks and said, Hey, you're six points.
00:49:30Oh, you thought that was good.
00:49:32Here's six more.
00:49:33Yeah.
00:49:33No, I know you can't win any game like that.
00:49:37For the most part, when you don't have them at homes or a Josh Allen, like
00:49:40that's not going to cut it.
00:49:40So obviously the passing game could be better, but your defense needs to do its
00:49:44job as well.
00:49:45And you can't be giving up two touchdowns like that.
00:49:47Yeah.
00:49:48Yeah.
00:49:48Again, winnable game that it's odd that you think that the Patriots are in a
00:49:52position to give games away where they should have won.
00:49:54Cause again, we didn't think they should be in a position to control much.
00:49:58And right now they have, you know, I done a pretty good job, you know, controlling
00:50:02and staying competitive in two games here, guys, leftover thoughts here.
00:50:05Um, you know, we want to start talking about punters.
00:50:08I absolutely will allow that.
00:50:09But no, I mean, honestly, uh, leftover thoughts and things that kind of stood
00:50:12out on the positive side, you will say.
00:50:15And again, it was a mixed defensive effort.
00:50:17You're still liking what you're seeing.
00:50:18Uh, certainly from Keon, um, run defense was great.
00:50:21John white run defense.
00:50:23Uh, and so there's definitely some things that can be taken away from, you know,
00:50:27from this, that, that, that, you know, we're, we're, we're overall positive.
00:50:32I'll just say that, like I mentioned, the run defense was awesome.
00:50:34They held them to under 40 yards, rushing on like 18 attempts.
00:50:37I think they, they only average like a little bit over two yards of carry.
00:50:40It was, it was really good on that front.
00:50:42Um, the other thing I'll, we talked about them a little bit, but although it was
00:50:46such a heavy, it was such a heavy tight end game and they didn't get the wide
00:50:49receivers going under Henry at a career day today, that was his best performance
00:50:53probably of his entire NFL career.
00:50:55I think it's only his first or second a hundred yard game career high, 108 yards.
00:50:58So, uh, kudos to him, props to him to get that done.
00:51:01And then offensively overall, it's not great right now, but it is
00:51:07miles better than anything we saw last season.
00:51:09And I think that's exciting, right?
00:51:10There was hope.
00:51:11Like we were sitting there like, Oh my God, I have anxiety.
00:51:13I forgot the last time I had anxiety to get the ball back.
00:51:16It's like, Oh, maybe there's a chance they do actually go score here.
00:51:19Maybe they are actually going to have a little bit of a methodical drive.
00:51:22Cause we saw it multiple times out here that they did go down
00:51:24and they scored a touchdown.
00:51:26They, they went down to score two touchdowns today on long drives.
00:51:28And they did it last week too, once, or maybe I forget how many
00:51:32touchdowns they scored last week.
00:51:33But regardless, it looks more efficient than it did last year.
00:51:36There's actual building blocks to build upon.
00:51:38I know we try and be more positive than some of some other people, but like
00:51:41there are some, there are some positive things to take away from this Patriots
00:51:44offense.
00:51:44And I think that's encouraging.
00:51:45Yeah.
00:51:45I think the ground game for the offense and the ground defense did what we
00:51:49expected them to do.
00:51:50The run defense, Devon Godshaw told us when we're on our a game, we rep
00:51:53techniques so much, like you're not running on us.
00:51:55And that's, I felt that way since last year, no offense has been able to
00:51:59consistently run the most of they gave up was against the jets last year in the
00:52:03snow when that game was pretty much already a little bit out of hand.
00:52:06So I think the run defense is really good.
00:52:08The run game.
00:52:08Again, they leaned on it.
00:52:10It led to a touchdown drive.
00:52:11That was really promising to see, especially on that drive.
00:52:14I think the defense knew exactly what was coming.
00:52:16They still couldn't stop it.
00:52:17And then defensively Keon white, man, he's still an absolute terror.
00:52:21If you have a weak link on the inside of your offensive line, they're going to
00:52:24put that guy, they're going to put Keon white on him and he's going to make that
00:52:27guy look silly.
00:52:28He like beat the crap out of Williams on one of those plays.
00:52:32I don't think it was a sack, but it was a good pressure.
00:52:33I think it was, it was one of his sacks.
00:52:35Um, but yeah, Keon white is like one of the headliners for guys and
00:52:38reasons you should be excited.
00:52:40And again, the ground defense and the ground game are good.
00:52:42You just need complimentary passing offense.
00:52:45And I think if they can get that, this will legitimately be a team where I think
00:52:49like even last week, as bad as they were, no team was coming in here saying, Oh,
00:52:53we're going to beat the breaks off the Patriots, right?
00:52:55Cause you have to respect their defense.
00:52:56So I think if they can get that shored up, this will be a team that's much more
00:53:00competitive and more well-respected than what they had last season.
00:53:03But that's a huge, if for all the reasons that we outlined,
00:53:06that's why we watch a, a, a, a complimentary passing offense.
00:53:10That's the goal for this season.
00:53:12Um, that we're looking on.
00:53:13What were you impressed with today?
00:53:15I want to know what were you impressed with from the Patriots today?
00:53:19Like I said, I, you know, the Keon is the first thing Hunter Henry obviously
00:53:23statistically had a good game, but I also don't think you want Hunter Henry to be
00:53:27the focal point of your offense.
00:53:28Cause Hunter Henry should be your safety valve possession, receiver, you know,
00:53:32third, third down guy that you're looking for.
00:53:35I, you know, I think it's a, it's kind of the poor quarterbacks, you know,
00:53:40handicap of like, let me just find my tight end over the middle here.
00:53:43And let's go to that.
00:53:43He's not Travis either.
00:53:45He's not a wide receiver tight end.
00:53:46He's a tight end.
00:53:47He's a tight end tight end.
00:53:48So again, to me, to me, it's, it's, it's the two games back to back of overall
00:53:54relatively professional competitive football, where we can sit here and say,
00:53:58instead of what a shit show, this is in every way imaginable, actually talking
00:54:03about individual moments and mistakes or things that cost a team a game that they
00:54:08were competitive in an all game long.
00:54:10It's like I said, it's hard to paint too sunny a picture because again, the
00:54:13offense is really, really rough right now.
00:54:17And that's the thing is like, I don't know where that's going to get better yet.
00:54:23So I'm waiting to see something.
00:54:25And that's where I think it's, that's why I asked that question of which of the
00:54:28things is preventing you from looking there?
00:54:30I think that I know this was a question of what was good.
00:54:33I, what I want to see them try before we can determine, cause it's not fair to
00:54:37judge, well, Polk isn't much or Thornton's a bust in year three, toss them out the
00:54:43window if you're not going to try and you're not going to get those guys
00:54:46involved and see what you have here.
00:54:48And that's, you know, fine.
00:54:50You want to argue, don't play Drake May because you don't want to get him hurt.
00:54:53That's fine.
00:54:53But you got to start to utilize some of the tools in your tool shed.
00:54:57You drafted guys, you want to see them perform a little bit.
00:55:01So it was good to see Polk get that touchdown early.
00:55:03I want to see them try to get him the ball a little bit more and see if you've
00:55:06got a playmaker on their hands.
00:55:07I want to see them kind of stretch it.
00:55:09The, the stat that kills me of all the stats that we threw out there today is
00:55:13just the wide receiver completions and the one to DeMario here that it's just
00:55:17simply, it's just not enough.
00:55:20You know, you're not going to, you're not going to win there.
00:55:22You're, if you're, if your receivers are, are this uninvolved in the game.
00:55:26So I want to see them try.
00:55:29And again, you've got a tough one coming up next week, you know, against the
00:55:31Jets there and you've got sauce and it's not like sauce is going to lock up one
00:55:35guy, but I don't know that it's going to necessarily get better on a short
00:55:38week against the Jets here.
00:55:39So we might, and then you've got the Niners.
00:55:41It's going to take a while before you can see if there's even anything
00:55:44to open up in this offense.
00:55:45And that's kind of what I'm waiting to see here.
00:55:47Cause if you have something in those guys, you kind of want to see it.
00:55:50Javon Baker.
00:55:51Again, we should point out a health, a healthy scratch two weeks in a row.
00:55:54You know, people are going to start clamoring for, Hey, throw that kid
00:55:57out there and let's see what he does.
00:55:58I don't know if there's any point if you're not going to try to take some
00:56:02shots here, but I also, like I said, I don't have the answer to the question.
00:56:05I don't know if they can, I don't know if they can get it downfield.
00:56:09I'll say Keanu White's going to have, I'll say three sacks, two and a half,
00:56:13or on Thursday, Aaron Rodgers can't move.
00:56:15It's going to be, it's going to be bad for them.
00:56:17Aaron Rodgers is not who people thought he would be this year.
00:56:21The idea I, you know, we talk about how CJ Stroud broke the mold in terms of
00:56:25how people view a rookie quarterbacks.
00:56:28Yeah.
00:56:28You know, Tom Brady obviously did that for aging quarterbacks and the idea
00:56:32that Aaron Rodgers would be anything more than, yeah, anything more than
00:56:36passable in his age 38 season coming off of a, an Achilles injury might've
00:56:41overshooting a little bit based off of what you thought he could be because
00:56:44he's not Aaron Rodgers anymore.
00:56:46He can't move.
00:56:47He can't do the things that Aaron Rodgers does move anymore, but
00:56:50he's still Aaron Rodgers.
00:56:51Like what's Aaron Rodgers in the sense that Aaron Rodgers is still a guy who
00:56:54can, who's an accurate quarterback, but he's not that guy.
00:56:58He's not that anymore.
00:57:00What made him that game was his feet.
00:57:02Yeah.
00:57:02Right.
00:57:02Right.
00:57:02But if you, he was Patrick.
00:57:05Yeah.
00:57:05Yeah.
00:57:05Right.
00:57:06Yeah.
00:57:06Yeah.
00:57:06Yeah.
00:57:07Um, so, so yeah.
00:57:09So we'll see there.
00:57:09I think they are going to work him again.
00:57:11I hear you want it.
00:57:11You want something nice for me?
00:57:12I'll tell you this as Mr.
00:57:14You got to draft receivers.
00:57:15You got to draft receivers.
00:57:16You got to draft receivers, which is what I've said after every single
00:57:19draft for the last, like 12 years.
00:57:22You cannot argue.
00:57:23And again, people are crapping over Christian Gonzalez here for a touchdown.
00:57:26That wasn't necessarily his fault.
00:57:28Uh, you cannot argue with the two top picks that bill Belichick
00:57:31made as his final act here.
00:57:33His final defiant act of refusing to draft offensive players.
00:57:37Oh, I remember.
00:57:39I remember getting shot on for that take last year.
00:57:43That's crazy.
00:57:44Well, I can't wait.
00:57:45That's crazy.
00:57:47All right.
00:57:47But yeah, I think you were going to get healthy.
00:57:51You were more excited for Martin.
00:57:52I was very excited for Martin.
00:57:54He's not been healthy.
00:57:55That's not my fault.
00:57:56I didn't hurt him.
00:57:57You know, I let him get on the field first.
00:58:00It's still, it's Taylor.
00:58:02They still could have had a good draft if they went receiver receiver.
00:58:06Yeah.
00:58:07You you'd be mad right now with, with, with Zay flowers.
00:58:10You'd be pissed off if Zay flowers.
00:58:12No, I even said at the time, if Gonzo was on the board and they did take Zay, I
00:58:16would have been a little upset because I don't think Addison's had his problems.
00:58:20Yeah.
00:58:20I never liked Addison.
00:58:22I love Zay.
00:58:23Yeah.
00:58:23If they had gone receiver, they could have had also had a good draft.
00:58:27And there's still what they should have done in taking Gonzo instead of Forbes.
00:58:30I would have been Zay flowers all day, all night.
00:58:32Like I wouldn't, I would have been furious if they hadn't taken them then.
00:58:35But yeah, I was cool.
00:58:37With God's.
00:58:37I was like, I didn't think he was going to be here.
00:58:38I, I kept saying in the mock drafts that it was like getting a shiny Mewtwo.
00:58:41Like I was, why is he even still here?
00:58:43When we were doing our, our Patriots beat mock drafts that off season, if
00:58:47Christopher's always got to pick 14, we weren't allowed to take them because
00:58:50we thought he was going to be gone.
00:58:51So we had to like, we were sitting there at 17 that night.
00:58:54It was like, you have to take them.
00:58:55You have to take them.
00:58:56It doesn't matter.
00:58:57We're still pretty good.
00:58:57I'd say you did.
00:58:58You did.
00:58:59So, uh, that's where we are here.
00:59:00Again, the Patriots, um, lost a game.
00:59:03They absolutely could have won 23 20.
00:59:06It's a short turnaround with the jets coming up on Thursday night at the
00:59:10Meadowlands, Mike Catholic, Taylor, Kyle's will be there, uh, along with
00:59:14the whole CLNS gang, uh, bringing you coverage, there will be a post game
00:59:18show late, but after the game from the Meadowlands, absolutely.
00:59:21So make sure that you tune in and check it out with us.
00:59:25Once again, we'll let you know our sponsors for the show, as always.
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01:00:04As we said, the Patriots lose much more coming up, uh, from CLNS.
01:00:07Check out the website for Taylor and Mike's write-ups on the games, as
01:00:11well as continued coverage on the Patriots press pass YouTube channel.
01:00:16Those guys will put up some more stuff talking about the game.
01:00:18Uh, and, uh, all the post game reaction.
01:00:22We will flood the channel and everyone will be back with
01:00:24a host of podcasts tomorrow.
01:00:25So again, thank you guys for watching.
01:00:26We will say good evening and we will see you.
01:00:30Thanks y'all.
01:00:31Bye.