In an exclusive interview with DW, Bangladesh's interim leader Muhammad Yunus accused ex-PM Hasina's government of destroying state institutions and the economy. He refused to give an exact date for the next election.
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00:00Chief Advisor, Dr. Muhammad Yunus, thank you for taking out time for an interview with
00:05DW.
00:06So, you were sworn in last month as the head of Bangladesh interim government after former
00:11Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina was forced to resign and flee to India following a student-led
00:16mass movement.
00:18What are the main challenges you are facing in your new role?
00:21Well, lots of challenges.
00:24One is kind of taking responsibility of a country after a huge eruption, a revolutionary
00:34situation that the students have created, which led to the fall of the regime which
00:43was occupying the country.
00:46And everything was in total disorder because one thing of the revolutionary activities
00:55of the young people and the fact that the government, which was holding the power before,
01:03they destroyed almost all institutions, dysfunctional institutions.
01:08Economy was in shatter, inflation is at a high level, and banking system collapsed.
01:20Civil administration wasn't totally directed to establishing the authority of the government
01:28which wanted to rule over the people.
01:31So you inherit that in a kind of a revolutionary transition.
01:36You don't know where to begin because everything has to be restarted in a different way.
01:41So you don't want to follow the same old path of doing things.
01:45And people who are running the country and officials and institutions, they are no good
01:50in doing the things that the students wishes to do.
01:54So we had to redesign everything.
01:58So it's only one month back.
02:01So within one month, what we have to do now is to bring order to the chaos and then improve
02:11the quality of administration and match the expectation of the people.
02:18You said recently that the interim government would undertake reforms before holding elections.
02:24What kind of reforms are we talking about here?
02:27And how long will it take to implement them?
02:31When you talk about reform, this was the kind of a wish list for the students and the
02:41common people who joined the revolution, to reform everything.
02:47Because everything was done in a way to promote single person, single family, the whole thing
02:55belonged to them.
02:57So we want to get out.
02:58We want to establish citizens' rights, human rights, democracy, and everything that goes
03:05with it, good governance.
03:08So we want to bring that.
03:09So this is our starting point where we do that.
03:12And that expectation has to be met.
03:14This is where we do.
03:17How long will it take?
03:18We'll give it our best.
03:20We just got to the first month.
03:23One is to bring order, number one.
03:24This is a tall order and we have to do that.
03:27And ultimate is an election.
03:30Before the election, we have to get all the reforms, reform on everything, in civil administration,
03:37reforming health care, reforming education, reforming judicial system, reforming electoral
03:42laws, you name it.
03:44It's a whole long list of reforms that you have to go through.
03:48So we have to go through the whole process.
03:49We just announced six commissions right now, actually today, commissions which will work
03:56on establishing the norms for administrations, norms for police administration, norms for
04:03justice system, and so on.
04:06And so many more to come.
04:08We announced that these are the first six.
04:10Many more commissions will be formed so that we can concentrate and build up a consensus.
04:17There's a lucky thing for us, there's a tremendous amount of consensus.
04:21One very sensitive thing, reform the constitution.
04:26So we have been requested and we have been feeding this demand from the people that we
04:35must amend the constitution to make it doable because it has been amended in a wrong way.
04:43So we don't use this constitution anymore.
04:46So we have to go back and create a constitution that fits our emotions, fits our present situation
04:53so that we never again go back to the old way of things that happened to us.
04:59So there's a long list of reforms before we get the election.
05:03So this is where we are right now.
05:06The next question is, critics say the interim government's job is to hold elections, not
05:11to embark on administrative reforms.
05:13What is your take on it?
05:16I don't think anybody says that in Bangladesh.
05:18I mean, if you hear it, probably somewhere else.
05:21Because we have been meeting all kinds of people to check with that.
05:25All political parties say we need reform.
05:28So there is no disagreement about reform among all sets of political parties.
05:33Civil society, they have been campaigning for it.
05:36So this is one area that we have a total consensus we must agree on amending the constitution.
05:44There's disagreement on that issue too.
05:47Some say you have to create a new constitution.
05:51So it's a complete constitution you have to write.
05:53This is one view.
05:54Another view is don't do the whole thing.
05:58Just amend the most important thing that we need right now, rather than rewrite the entire constitution.
06:05So this is the only difference.
06:08And our own view is we should not go through the rewriting of a new constitution.
06:13We should be focusing on the major issues of constitution and build a consensus.
06:18We cannot do anything without a consensus.
06:20Because our strength comes from the consensus.
06:22If we can establish the consensus, we go ahead and do that.
06:25There have been incidents of quote-unquote mob justice with some minority groups and
06:30members of the ex-PM Hasina's party reportedly being attacked.
06:34How is your administration trying to control the situation?
06:39One is a post-revolution situation.
06:42Yesterday, people were being killed in the street.
06:46Tomorrow, you said everything is calm and quiet and civilized.
06:49It doesn't happen like that.
06:52It's a kind of, as I said, eruption.
06:57So during this little transition, some incidents have happened, yes.
07:06And our government is trying to make sure that it doesn't continue so that there's no
07:11violation of law.
07:12So you follow strict laws.
07:14Officials are instructed.
07:16Police are instructed to do the right thing and so on.
07:20And I think we have reached that point.
07:23Today, I don't think you'll hear on September 11, you will have those kinds of things.
07:31These are reference to August, early August, when things were very unruly at that time.
07:38So I hope it's over and we'll move on from here.
07:43So my next question is, India is Bangladesh's biggest neighbor and also an economic powerhouse.
07:50Both countries depend on each other economically and are linked culturally.
07:54While the previous government maintained close ties with India, is your administration moving
07:59in the opposite direction?
08:02I don't think in Bangladesh anybody can go in the opposite direction or any country can
08:06go in an opposite direction with the neighbors.
08:11India is not only the biggest neighbor, it's the only neighbor because we are, India is
08:17all around us.
08:18So there's no question about having another neighbor.
08:22It's good that we have India as a neighbor.
08:24It's a very forward-looking country.
08:26We want to shake hands with each other, move on together.
08:32And that's our future is.
08:33So of all the countries in the world, Bangladesh must have the best of relationship with India.
08:40Out of its own necessity and out of its own acquaintances and the similarity of the things
08:46that we do together, we share each other's history.
08:50So there's no escape route for Bangladesh to do something else.
08:55So that's what any government will try to do that and will continue to do that.
08:59We have best of relationship.
09:01But as a neighbor, you always have some problems, water problem, problem of intrusion from people
09:10moving from one country to another country.
09:15Two young citizens of Bangladesh were killed in the border recently.
09:20I don't think that was the intention of the government of India.
09:24But somehow this happens.
09:27So it upsets people in Bangladesh, why do you have to shoot at innocent people, nobody's
09:33attacking you, those kind of things.
09:35So these are skirmishes, these are things that we have to address.
09:39And there is no difference of opinion.
09:41India doesn't say that we will go and do that.
09:43India will never say that.
09:45No civilized government will say that.
09:46So how to avoid such situation?
09:50Water is a problem and it's always a problem in upper riparian, lower riparian.
09:55Even within India, they have problems with upper riparian, lower riparian.
09:58So it's not that this is Bangladesh, so we have to create problem.
10:02It's a tricky thing.
10:03So we have to work together and there are international ways of solving that.
10:07We will follow that path and make a very happy solution.
10:12Economics is one of your main areas of expertise.
10:16What measures have you taken to rebuild the economy since taking the reins of the country?
10:21It's not about expertise in economics, it's simply bring order.
10:26Economy was not done in a way that it can function.
10:31It became a kind of an opportunity to make huge money.
10:38Money siphoned off from Bangladesh through government channels, through bank channels
10:43and so on.
10:45Contracts were signed not for the benefit of the people, for the benefit of a family
10:49or family members and something like that.
10:52So those ugly things that you see when a government goes in the wrong direction, things happen,
10:59terrible things happen in the economy and so on.
11:01So this is what we are struggling to bring order in this thing.
11:04So you don't need a big economist to solve it.
11:08It's simply a matter of good governance.
11:13Follow the rules, follow the discipline.
11:16Central bank never played the role a central bank is supposed to play.
11:21Banks were not playing the role that the banks are supposed to play the role.
11:27So those are the kind of how to bring order and make institutions follow policies, follow
11:35policies which are already laid down.
11:37Violation is not accepted.
11:39So those are the kind of environment we are trying to create.
11:43Bangladesh hosts over a million of Rohingya refugees who fled Myanmar to escape violence.
11:49There are now reports that more Rohingya Muslims want to take refuge in Bangladesh as a civil
11:55war has started in Myanmar's Rakhine state.
11:58Will your government let refugees in and how will you deal with the Rohingya issue?
12:05Rohingyas are trickling in as trouble begins in Rakhine, more and more presence of the
12:12arms conflict in the nearby area.
12:16And Rohingyas are trying to find a way to escape, escape that they're coming towards
12:21Bangladesh.
12:23We can't stop them.
12:25We can't push them back.
12:27Pushing them back means we are pushing them to death.
12:30I don't think any country can do that.
12:33So we welcome people who come, let them come in.
12:36But it creates problem for us, problem for us because we already have nearly a million
12:42Rohingyas living in the country.
12:44We don't know what is the future of that.
12:47And on top of it, we have 200, 300 people almost every day coming in.
12:54This number builds up very quickly.
12:56So this is an additional burden.
12:58So we are worried about it.
13:00We are trying to draw attention of the international community how to handle this.
13:05We don't have a solution right now.
13:07But we kept the door open.
13:08We cannot push them back.
13:10That's absolutely unacceptable.
13:13But we'll be discussing this with our friends around the world, how to make sure that this
13:18is shared with Bangladesh.
13:20Bangladesh should not be the only country taking care of the Rohingyas.
13:25And luckily, many countries have offered to get some Rohingyas in their own countries,
13:30although it's not a large number compared to what we have.
13:34But if you start, if you feel comfortable, you can probably, each, every country share
13:39some burden with Bangladesh.
13:42We can ultimately find a solution in that.
13:45And also trying to bring pressure on Myanmar government to take them back as their citizen
13:51and rehabilitate them so that a peace can be established with them and the government
13:57of Myanmar.
13:58So these are our efforts.
13:59And we are very, very grateful to the international community for helping us to take care of all
14:06the Rohingyas.
14:07Lastly, when is the interim government planning to hold fresh elections?
14:12As soon as possible.
14:13That's our mandate.
14:15We want to come to the election and have a decent election, beautiful election, and celebrate
14:22the victory of a particular party or whatever party which comes in.
14:28Hand over the power to the newly elected government.
14:32So this should be as brief as possible.
14:35We cannot give you date and time right now.
14:38There's only one month.
14:39We don't know exactly how much time each one of those reforms will be needed.
14:46Because everybody agrees that we must complete the reform procedure first and hold the election.
14:52Professor Mohammad Yunus, thank you so much for your time.
14:55Thank you for coming.