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00:00This is the first time I've ever seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:05It's amazing.
00:07I've never seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:10I've never seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:13I've never seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:16I've never seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:19I've never seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:22I've never seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:25I've never seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:28I've never seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:31I've never seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:34I've never seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:37I've never seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:40I've never seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:43I've never seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:46I've never seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:49I've never seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:52I've never seen a plane take off from the runway.
00:56Well, it's a last resort.
00:58You know, this is the 5th day of action.
01:01It's a last resort for our members.
01:03Striking is always a last resort.
01:05But they're so fed up with the way they're being treated
01:08by the RFA and the Royal Navy
01:11that it's come to a tipping point where something's got to give.
01:15Our members, over the last 10 years of austerity,
01:19are 36% behind the cost of living in real terms.
01:24And they know their living standards are going down,
01:27but they know the value and the skills that they've got
01:30are valued within the maritime.
01:32And it's causing the recruitment and retention crisis
01:35within the RFA and the Royal Navy.
01:37And the Ministry of Defence really need to wake up
01:41and smell the coffee and realise
01:44they've got a recruitment and retention problem
01:47and they're losing highly skilled personnel because of it.
01:51Well, the Royal Navy can't function without the Auxiliary, which is RFA.
01:55So there's a predicament there for another organisation...
02:00There's a predicament there for another organisation,
02:03which is the Royal Navy,
02:05and how it affects the security of the nation,
02:08how they can function around the globe.
02:11There's RFA ships at this moment in Diego Garcia,
02:15which were on strike today.
02:17And they're also in Oman, and they're on strike today.
02:21So this is affecting the Navy and the Royal Fleet,
02:24obviously, a little bit globally.
02:26So forward-deployed personnel are even putting down their tools
02:30and only doing safety precautions...
02:32Yeah, the safety of the ship is always paramount,
02:35but that's the only function that will be delivered today by our members.
02:39And what is the RNPT's position?
02:41Obviously, yourselves and Nautas International
02:43both had talks with the MOD.
02:45Would you be able to describe those talks,
02:47and are things actually progressing in the right direction at all?
02:50Yeah, since the new government have come in,
02:52we had some positive talks.
02:56It's been frustrating over August,
02:59where different faces are coming into the room,
03:02and it is frustrating because we need an offer on the table.
03:06There's no two ways about it. Our members need an offer.
03:09We believe that's imminent,
03:11but we need the MOD to get the skates on, basically,
03:16and get that offer on the table so we can sit down and settle this dispute.
03:20Are you confident that an appropriate offer will actually be made?
03:23Yeah, they're thinking seriously in different areas
03:26of where they can source money.
03:29They're being creative, which we haven't got a problem with.
03:32There's more than one way to settle this dispute.
03:37We're open to multi-year deals.
03:40We're open to differentials of deals.
03:44Our members will look at it, digest it,
03:47and if it's palatable to the members and it's in their interest,
03:51we'll put that offer in front of the members.
03:53Members of SPAC have spoken before,
03:55and they've said they've consistently felt overworked, underpaid and undervalued.
03:59Why do you think successor governments have let the service go like this for so long?
04:06Austerity and the austerity years have made a massive difference.
04:10They went through an exercise called VAERS, Voluntary Early Release Scheme, in 2012,
04:15and there were 243 people taken out of the RFA organisation,
04:20but they still wanted the same capability and delivery.
04:24Now, that's not going to happen.
04:26Since 2012, it's gradually got worse,
04:29but the 0% pay offers, 1% pay offers over austerity years
04:35have amounted to 36% in real terms, behind the cost of living.
04:40Our members know that they are behind the eight ball with the cost of living,
04:45and it's got even worse over the last year,
04:48so they're feeling the pinch.
04:52Since 2012, do you believe that some RFA vessels have been operated on consistently short-staffed?
04:58Yes. The schemes and complements have never been fully implemented.
05:02Most of the ships are laid up in Birkenhead.
05:06There's a term for it now, it's called the Birkenhead Navy,
05:10because there's so many RFA ships in there.
05:13In fact, there's more in there than out at sea.
05:16So there is a tipping point, and our members realise there is a tipping point.
05:21They're worried for the RFA, they've got a lot of respect for the organisation,
05:25as have people who are involved with the RFA,
05:29and they want to see the RFA succeed, but it's not succeeding at the moment.
05:34You said there was a recruitment and retention crisis,
05:37potentially people being burnt out because of the amount of work they're having to do,
05:40compared to their pay.
05:42Will the pay offer potentially offset those problems,
05:45or will it be the start of what needs to be a long-term regeneration of the floors?
05:49We've told the new government the pay increase would be a start,
05:54but the problems are entrenched.
05:57We've told the government we want to work with them,
06:00as far as terms and conditions, leave is concerned.
06:05There was an independent report commissioned by the Royal Navy,
06:10an RFA called Fast Track,
06:12which clearly outlines that there's major problems
06:15compared with the wider maritime sector.
06:18And commercially, there's better job opportunities there for our members.
06:22Really nowhere near where it needs to be.
06:25We're looking for a resolution that drives to recognise
06:30the 30% real-terms pay cut our members have experienced over the last 14 years,
06:35that reflects the high levels of inflation in recent years,
06:38and gives a pathway for the future.
06:41Our members, and members of other unions at RFA,
06:44are leaving in droves, really,
06:48because the service is overworked, is underpaid and undervalued.
06:51They're performing 67% of naval tasking.
06:54Surface naval tasking is being done increasingly by the RFA.
06:58They operate with smaller crews on complex vessels.
07:01They get the job done.
07:03And they are fed up of having to get the job done
07:06whilst not having enough people on board
07:08and being expected to deliver more and more on less and less pay in real terms.
07:13Currently, both unions were able to have discussions with BMOD.
07:17What are your thoughts on those discussions?
07:19Were they positive? Were they negative?
07:21I think what we've got is a solid start to setting up the framework
07:26for where discussions will sit in the future.
07:29The challenges that BMOD have got is that they are effectively
07:33at the whim of Treasury and Cabinet Office
07:36with regards to the capability that they have to have a mandate
07:39to put an offer forward.
07:41I'm certain that they are working as hard as they can,
07:45because that's what they're telling us they're trying to do,
07:47in delivering something that should look to resolve the issues here
07:51and work with us on the future challenges.
07:54But at present, they haven't got the mandate from the Treasury.
07:57They haven't got the capability to put forward a meaningful offer
08:01that represents improvements to the working lives of those that we represent.
08:06So this is why we are having a second day of industrial action,
08:10a second day of a full withdrawal of labour,
08:12where ships from Singapore through to Birkenhead
08:15are just not sailing because of this.
08:18And is the Union worried about Keir Starmer's recent gloomy speech
08:21regarding the budget?
08:22Because that might be one of the things that a payoff may not happen potentially.
08:27It is such a small amount of money in the scheme of things
08:31that it would take to resolve this.
08:33RFA payroll for last year was somewhere in the region of £95 million,
08:37which sounds like a big number,
08:39but it's actually less than a quarter of a percent of the entire MOD budget.
08:43It's such a tiny proportion of money in greater government expenditure
08:48for such an essential and critical service.
08:50Without the RFA, our aircraft carriers can't get refuelled,
08:54can't get restocked, can't get resupplied.
08:56Without the RFA, we do not have a blue-water navy.
08:59It is the RFA that deliver for the navy so that they can do their tasking.
09:04And increasingly, the RFA are doing naval tasking for the RN,
09:08where the RN cannot perform what's required of them.
09:12RFA sailors have talked to me about a retention crisis and a recruitment crisis.
09:16One sailor told me that some sailors who are on annual leave
09:20get emails not necessarily encouraging them to go back to work,
09:23but it's mentioned that it will help out the RFA
09:27if they take their annual leave short and go back to work for a deployment.
09:31Has the union heard instances of that as well?
09:33Increasingly. It's been run for the last few years on goodwill.
09:38And goodwill is now in short supply and is running dry in many instances.
09:44When you are asking people to work on worst terms and conditions
09:48that they can get in the commercial sector,
09:50when you're asking people to perform hard tasking,
09:53put themselves at risk in the firing line,
09:55in support of Royal Navy activities, in support of Royal Marines activities,
09:59when you're asking them to do all of that on worst terms and conditions
10:03of employment they can get for operating a cross-channel ferry,
10:06worst terms and conditions of employment they can get
10:08for working in the North Sea in supply areas,
10:11where you're going to start to see people leave
10:15where the grass is definitively greener.
10:18The MOD and RFA's own report that was published in March
10:23that analysed what the commercial side was being offered
10:27compared to what the RFA was offering
10:29demonstrated that in every key rank and role at RFA
10:34they were underpaid and their terms and conditions
10:37were severely under what the wider commercial industry is getting.
10:41So these are seafarers with lots of skills, lots of experience
10:45that are being told that RFA cannot pay what they are worth
10:53and they're going to people that will and can and do pay what they are worth.
10:58That's what we're seeing with the retention crisis.
11:00When you have people who are on leave,
11:02when they're accruing leave on such a small basis
11:06compared to what they get in the commercial world,
11:08when they're on leave constantly being harassed to work
11:12and come back and fill the gaps because it's helping out a ship,
11:16because it's helping out colleagues,
11:18it is that sense of camaraderie that they're relying upon,
11:21that sense of needing to stand together and work together
11:23that's built up through years of work in the RFA
11:26that they're relying on, that they are pushing for people to have to do more on
11:31and it reaches a point where they no longer can do it.
11:34There are people who are driving themselves into illness
11:39because of the way they are having to be worked with the RFA.
11:42They're doing sea appointment after sea appointment
11:45where they're away from friends and family for ever extended periods of time.
11:49The stress, the strain, the toll of that,
11:51that leave is to give them the decompression time and space
11:54so that when they go back to work they can focus on work
11:56because they've had time away from the job.
11:58Constantly asking for people to come back early, come back soon,
12:01come back after not having their full leave
12:03is increasing the stress which is increasing burnout
12:06which is making more people leave as well.
12:08There's a myriad of issues that really need to be resolved with the RFA
12:12and the first thing that's going to help
12:14is giving the pay at the level that it needs to be.
12:18Fair pay, RFA, is the essential thing that needs to happen.
12:22Everything else can fall in behind that
12:24but paying these people what they're worth
12:26is the first and most important step
12:28into fixing the challenges that are here with the RFA.
12:31We've had some constructive initial discussions with MOD and RFA
12:38and they're making all the right noises
12:41we just don't seem to be able to get an offer off them that we can consider.
12:46We haven't really got into the detail of resolving the 23-24 pay dispute
12:54so really that's why we're out again today
12:56for Northsullis members at the RFA
12:58it's the second day of strike action that they've taken.
13:01Of course we've been running continuous action short of a strike since July
13:09and we're not happy about that.
13:13None of our members want to take industrial action.
13:16They're maritime professionals, they care deeply about the RFA
13:20and they understand the critical role it plays
13:23but this has been a dispute that's been 14 years in the making
13:27and enough is enough and we have to make a stand
13:29and the members are giving a very clear direction to the union
13:32and we are a democratic organisation, a member-led organisation
13:36we listen to our members and we're determined to deliver an outcome
13:40that can resolve this dispute and satisfy their needs.
13:44Pay has been reduced in real terms by 30% over that 14-year period
13:49they've not kept pace with RN personnel, they're working alongside
13:54so it's time for the government to resolve this dispute
14:00and I believe they want to resolve this dispute
14:03but we need to get it done now.
14:05The government are given no specific time frame of when a pay offer may be coming in
14:10and there's potentially other factors at play
14:13you've got a budget coming up in October
14:15Keir Starmer gave his gloomy speech about potentially the economic outlook of the country
14:20do you think that plays a factor in as to why you guys haven't been given a pay offer yet?
14:24I can't really say to be frank and to be upfront with you
14:31I'm sure there are a multitude of demands on the governments, on the finances of the country
14:38on the Treasury who ultimately will have the final say
14:42but I believe RFA and MOD want to get the dispute resolved
14:49I believe they're working hard to do that
14:51I'm just encouraging them to get that done quickly
14:54we should have already had an offer
14:57we had a meeting a week ago
14:59we were hoping to have a meeting on Thursday
15:01that was postponed because there was nothing new to tell us
15:04and I'm hoping something happens this week
15:06that will negate the need for us to take or plan further days of strike action
15:11the RFA is really, really important
15:13crucial national security, humanitarian relief, disaster relief
15:18we want to get back to work, we guys want to get back to work
15:21carrying out those important and essential functions
15:24it's important we get this done quickly
15:27so I'm urging everybody involved to redouble their efforts
15:30to get a deal that we can work with and that our members can accept
15:35It was mentioned to me earlier that the RFA is suffering from a recruitment and retention crisis
15:40largely down to the pay
15:42if a pay offer is not forthcoming
15:44and wages are still declining compared to other commercial seafaring enterprises
15:49do you think the RFA will not have enough people to man a lot of the ships?
15:52They don't have enough people now, so there is a recruitment and retention crisis
15:56I believe the organisation, MOD, RFA, they understand that
16:01and they know they need to fix that problem
16:04that problem won't be fixed in this one pay round
16:07that's a long-running issue that we're going to have to resolve
16:10and part of any settlement will be an understanding that the RFA needs a fair deal
16:17we need to have a reset in the relationship
16:20we need to get back round the table in that historic partnership
16:23that we've always enjoyed with the RFA and MOD
16:26and work out the solutions to that recruitment and retention crisis
16:30because it's fundamental that we're not back here in 12 months' time
16:35and another 12 months' time falling out again
16:37over the state of the pay and conditions of our members
16:41so we need those conversations to be ongoing
16:45and we need commitment from the government side, from MOD and RFA
16:49to resolve those bigger issues
16:51and I believe it's there, as I say, we're just waiting for the offer
16:55It was mentioned to me that a lot of CVOs are struggling
16:58with the conditions of being short-staffed
17:01feeling like they're overworked and overburdened
17:04do you think the pay will be a mere start of what the MOD may have to do
17:09to bring the RFA back up to where it should be?
17:11I think inevitably that's the situation, as I say
17:14this is a dispute, a situation that has grown over 14 years
17:18it ain't going to fix it in one pay round
17:21so we need to work together, in partnership, together
17:27we all want the RFA to be a successful organisation
17:31get back to where it was 14 years ago
17:34where it's a place where people are proud to work
17:36it's a choice, they want to work for the RFA
17:39they want to train and commit their careers to the RFA
17:43so that's what we need to be sitting around the table together
17:46and working out the solutions for that
17:48and we need a commitment to that on both sides
17:50and we're committed, our members are committed
17:52so we need to fix the problems that exist