Reaction from the Sunderland Echo's football writers as SAFC thrash Sheffield Wednesday.
Plus Jack Clarke and transfer latest.
Plus Jack Clarke and transfer latest.
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00:00He's taken it to another level, his discipline, his awareness.
00:03He's going to be the game-changer if he doesn't start the game.
00:05I think he really does live and breathe football.
00:08I think Sullum does mean a great deal to him.
00:11It would be lovely if that experienced striker
00:14could come in in the next couple of days.
00:30Hello, welcome to the Raw podcast brought to you by the Sunderland Echo.
00:34My name is Jason Jones.
00:35I'm joined by James Copley and Phil Smith.
00:39Lads, pleasure as always on a Monday morning.
00:42And those Monday mornings are made quite a lot easier
00:45when you see Sunderland play like that on a Sunday afternoon.
00:47What a performance from the lads.
00:49A 4-0 win over Sheffield Wednesday, their first home game of the season.
00:53It's now six points from six in the Championship, still to concede a goal.
00:57I mean, we're sort of at the risk of running away with ourselves a little bit here, James,
01:00but how impressive was that performance yesterday?
01:05Yeah, really impressive.
01:06I was most surprised, I think, when Alan Brown's name wasn't on the team sheet.
01:11I was a little bit concerned just because he brought so much stability
01:14and calmness and experience to the Cardiff game.
01:18And that's not necessarily a criticism of Chris Rigg,
01:21who obviously we all have a lot of confidence in,
01:23but you did just wonder whether that would be to Sunderland's detriment.
01:26And it actually turned out to be the other way around.
01:29Chris Rigg playing in that sort of second striker role in the number 10 position,
01:33Job moving a little bit further back, really helped Sunderland.
01:36And I think me and Phil discussed on the On The Whistle video on YouTube after the game
01:40that that young, energetic midfielder of Neil, Job and Rigg
01:44really did a number on Sheffield Wednesdays.
01:46I think Roald probably got his tactics a little wrong in the first half as well.
01:51But yeah, Barry Bannon didn't really get a look in for that first 25 minutes
01:54in which Sunderland went 3-0 up.
01:57And just so many positives to take from the game.
01:59Obviously, my end and that end a couple as well.
02:00And in terms of Regis Lebrie, you couldn't ask really for a better two opening league games.
02:06He's won away.
02:07He's kept two clean sheets and he's won at home, scored six goals.
02:11There's a striker scoring.
02:12It's dreamland, really.
02:14I don't think anybody expected Sunderland to be this good this early on.
02:20You know, there is mitigation in a sense that I think Cardiff had injuries
02:24and they look pretty poor.
02:26Sheffield Wednesday, we're not really sure really how good they are yet.
02:30So I think coming into Burnley on Saturday, obviously,
02:32we'll talk about that a little bit later.
02:34But I think that's a huge test given how they've started the season.
02:37But hugely encouraged so far.
02:39And I think, you know, what's been the most pleasing aspect is that we could all see
02:44what Lebris is trying to implement and that the players have bought into it,
02:48which is massive, really.
02:49So yeah, it was a lot better than the last time he played Sheffield Wednesday
02:53at home at the Stadium of Life.
02:54After the Cardiff game, we were kind of positive because you can't really
02:57criticise a team when they go away from home and keep a clean sheet and win the game.
03:00But we didn't really.
03:02There wasn't a huge difference from the Sunderland that we saw towards
03:04the end of last season.
03:05They were just more effective.
03:07Whereas I thought yesterday it was, you know, for me,
03:10it was the best performance since Tony Mowbray's departure.
03:13I know there was the win over Leeds at the Stadium of Life and, you know,
03:16there were occasional moments where Sunderland produced a really good result.
03:19But I think in terms of actually dominating the opposition by winning the game,
03:22by being completely on the front foot, spells the game where it was the pressing
03:27that just completely undid Sheffield Wednesday.
03:30Spells where they knew to put their foot on the ball and slow it down
03:33and actually just control it that way.
03:35It wasn't as if they just played the same way for 90 minutes.
03:38I think it was really, really exciting.
03:40It's the first time, I think, in a long time that it's been a performance and a result.
03:46And it was the best football we've seen since Mowbray left for me by a country distance.
03:50What a really, really cathartic day actually,
03:53because it's been miserable, hasn't it, at the Stadium of Life all year.
03:57And I think everyone, it was just so nice to have a day
04:00where people could just really enjoy a performance to get the act.
04:04I mean, front to back, there were fantastic performances all over the pitch.
04:09We sort of touched on the midfield already, so we might as well start there.
04:12That midfield three, Dan Neal, Joe Bellingham, Chris Rigg, obviously coming in the side.
04:17Average age of just 19, which almost boggles the mind really
04:21when you see how well they performed yesterday.
04:23I mean, how impressed were you with that trio yesterday, James?
04:28Hugely impressed.
04:29As I mentioned, I was slightly worried when Alan Brown dropped out,
04:33but it's mind-boggling really that Dan Neal is the senior figure in that midfield at 22 years old.
04:40Yes, he's got a lot of experience, but he's just come on so much this season.
04:45You could see it during pre-season.
04:46He's taken it to another level.
04:48His discipline, his awareness, his passing ability.
04:52He's a real, real top player.
04:53And I know we're all raving about Chris Rigg, and rightly so at 17.
04:58He's definitely a player, but Dan Neal's superb.
05:02Then you look at Joe Bellingham.
05:04Again, the summer seems to have done him the world of good.
05:07He looked a bit tired at times and jaded last season, but he's got so much quality.
05:12I quite like him.
05:13We were saying, Jason, weren't we, during the game,
05:15that we quite like him a little bit further back.
05:17Obviously, he can play as the 10, but when he was playing alongside Dan Neal,
05:21he gives such athleticism, got pace, power,
05:24and he actually carries the ball as well up the field, which is good to see.
05:29He's such an impressive physical specimen that he glides over the pitch.
05:34And obviously, Chris Rigg, what more can we say about him?
05:36His mentality after playing a lot of pre-season,
05:40but then falling behind Alan Brown in the pecking order.
05:43Then he finds himself starting against Preston.
05:46He doesn't soak.
05:46He's still probably the best player on the pitch despite Sunderland losing.
05:49Then he finds himself back in the team, in the league,
05:53and he has the mentality to come on against Cardiff
05:56on the right-hand side of Sunderland's attack.
05:58And then he's back playing as a number 10
06:01for the first time in a while against Sheffield Wednesday.
06:03So, it's so good to see.
06:06And strange in a way, really, because obviously Pierre Equa is on the bench
06:09and he's not getting on at the moment or getting a game.
06:13And it's easy to see why, because that midfield trio is such quality.
06:17I think good news about Alan Brown as well,
06:19it only being a minor knock and hopefully he'll come back in.
06:22But yeah, it was delightful, really, that midfield.
06:26As a three, it was very well balanced
06:29and nice to have that little bit of competition.
06:31Obviously, I mentioned Equa and Brown,
06:33but they could come in at some point,
06:35obviously, all eyes on the transfer market.
06:37But yeah, honestly, it was a joy to watch at times.
06:40I think, again, you do have to caveat that
06:41with maybe Sheffield Wednesday tactically didn't set up right for it
06:45and that allowed Sunderland the space.
06:47But there's so much talent there that if they continue to grow,
06:50get that cohesion, it's hugely exciting to be a Sunderland fan.
06:56And I guess the big question now, Phil,
06:58is does Alan Brown get back in this team?
07:01I mean, Chris Riggs, he's been a bit of a carpenter for himself, hasn't he?
07:05It's going to be hard for the Canoe side
07:07if he just waltzes back into Reggie's side.
07:10Yeah, my instinct is, to be honest, if he's fit,
07:14is he probably does,
07:15just because I think Burnley, it's such a different game, isn't it?
07:18And I think that's kind of...
07:19I asked Lebris after the game, you know, exactly that.
07:21Can you keep Rigg out of the side?
07:23And he didn't really answer the question
07:26other than to say, you know,
07:27that midfield three had been brilliant in this game.
07:31But every game is different.
07:33And I think the important thing
07:34is to have different solutions, really, isn't it?
07:35And I think that Burnley, you know,
07:38when you look at what they've done
07:39in the first two games of the season,
07:41it's a little bit frightening, really.
07:43And I think we all wondered whether, you know,
07:45is Buzz Scott part of the right choice?
07:47Is Vincent Kompany leaving?
07:49How big an impact is that going to have on them?
07:51And the answer seems to be very little
07:52because they've got that quality.
07:53So my instinct is that might be a good game for Alan Brown.
07:57I think maybe his experience,
07:58maybe that defensive now especially,
08:00is something that you'll actually need.
08:02But in some ways, it doesn't really matter too much
08:04because the point with Rigg is,
08:07he's either going to start
08:08or he's the first sub that comes off.
08:09He's now in that position.
08:11You know, he's going to be the game changer
08:12if he doesn't start the game.
08:14And we also know with him,
08:15he can come off the right
08:16if that's, you know, where the game's going.
08:18He can play as a 10,
08:19he can play as a center midfield.
08:21So my gut tells me that for Burnley,
08:24possibly Brown does come straight back in.
08:25But in some ways,
08:27I'm not sure how much it really matters.
08:29You know, Rigg is going to feature in the game.
08:32If he's not in the starting lineup,
08:33he is someone's number one game changer.
08:34And I think it's an absolute credit to him
08:36that he's been able to do that.
08:37I mean, that little touch and pass
08:39for me in the second goal to set Clarke away.
08:43Players, you know, with hundreds of games
08:45under their belt can't do that.
08:46You know, that's just God-given talent really.
08:49And it's just really exciting
08:51to see where he's going to go from here.
08:52And yeah, it's nice to have that competition.
08:54As James said, you know,
08:55we haven't even really spoken about Equi yet.
08:57And, you know, he's got a real battle
08:59to get his way back in.
09:00Obviously, it's mainly because his match fitness
09:02is behind the others
09:03because he had his injury in pre-season.
09:05But you've got four central midfielders there
09:07who at times have all looked
09:09at top-end championship levels.
09:10So it's emerging as a position
09:12of real, real strength for Sunderland.
09:14And it's, yeah, it's going to be exciting
09:16to see the four of them kind of battle it out, really.
09:21The man who opened the scoring yesterday,
09:23Denis Sirkin, obviously got an assist
09:25in the opening game as well against Cardiff.
09:27I mean, how good is it to see him back
09:29and fit and fire?
09:31And how much of a difference does he make
09:32to the Sunderland team, Jeff?
09:35He makes a big difference.
09:38He's a real quality player.
09:39And Nick Barnes from the BBC
09:42put the question to him after the game,
09:44you know, have you done anything differently
09:46in pre-season?
09:47You appear to have bulked up physically
09:49and he seems to have strengthened
09:50a little bit as well.
09:51His physical shape has changed.
09:54And he just sort of brushed it off
09:56and smiled with a sort of a little knowing nod.
09:59But I think that's testament really
10:01to how hard he's worked to get back.
10:02I think he really does sort of live
10:05and breathe football.
10:05I think Sunderland does mean a great deal to him.
10:09He's been so lucky with injuries as well.
10:10And last season, I think he only played
10:12eight times in the championship,
10:13which is a massive loss.
10:14I mean, this is a player that when we signed him,
10:18there were rumours that he would go back
10:19to Tottenham because they had a buyback clause,
10:21which has since expired.
10:22That's how good a form he was in
10:24under Tony Mowbray at Sunderland at one point.
10:27Obviously, there was those two goals
10:28towards the back end of that playoff season.
10:31At Preston, was it Preston or West Brom?
10:34Preston, wasn't it?
10:35West Brom.
10:36West Brom, yeah.
10:37He scored at Cardiff as well.
10:39So he's really got a lot of quality,
10:42a lot of talent.
10:42It was such a shame he was out for so long.
10:44But that, you know, the Sunderland's flanks
10:47at the moment with Serkin and Clark
10:50on the left and Hewman Roberts on the right,
10:52it adds real balance to top quality fullbacks
10:55with two top quality wingers.
10:57It makes a great deal of difference.
10:59And what I like about both Serkin and Hewman
11:01is they're both really combative.
11:02If they get stuck in, they're both good going forward.
11:05And they're both so defensively sound.
11:07He's a huge asset.
11:08I really hope he can stay fit for the full season
11:11because I honestly think, to be honest,
11:14if he does stay fit for a long period of time,
11:17he's in that sort of,
11:18although he's a little bit older,
11:19sort of dual bracket of potentially going quite high,
11:23you know, up into the Premier League.
11:26I think clubs would certainly be looking at him.
11:28There's a couple in Sunderland's squad like that,
11:30to be fair.
11:30But I think the main thing is that he's back-fitting
11:33firing and a huge asset to Sunderland.
11:35He's a great player.
11:37I'll stick my neck out on the line a little bit here,
11:39but I just don't see that Leeds move happening.
11:42I may be proved wrong.
11:44So now suddenly they do actually have
11:45a fairly significant amount of money
11:47that they can invest.
11:48Would they be willing to spend such a huge sum on Clark?
11:51I'm not so sure.
11:53It does feel as if Jack Clark is a Premier League quality player.
11:56I think we're all in agreement there.
12:04We might as well talk about that one
12:06for an experienced striker.
12:07Obviously, Alexandre Mendy is still the name
12:10that is being linked consistently.
12:12I mean, has there been any notable progress on that,
12:15do you think, Phil,
12:15or is Sunderland any closer to getting their man
12:18through the door?
12:20I mean, I think the fact that he's still not involved
12:22in any way with his team,
12:23he was left out of the squad over the weekend
12:25and still training on his own.
12:26The player could not have been any clearer
12:28that Sunderland is still the move that he wants.
12:31I think we can say with a fair degree of certainty
12:33that's probably still the deal
12:34that Sunderland would like to do and are working on.
12:37I'm interested in reports from France
12:38that are kind of looking at N'Bai Niang,
12:42obviously formerly of AC Milan,
12:44who's a free agent now.
12:45Obviously, that could have an impact
12:46if he signs and it might make it more palatable
12:48for them to sell Mendy.
12:49It certainly suggests that planning
12:51for a future without him.
12:52It's still one that I think there's a good chance
12:54that can happen,
12:55because ultimately it will be in his club's interest
12:58to sell him if he doesn't want to be there.
12:59Sunderland still wants to sign him
13:01and he still wants the move.
13:02So if you were to ask me,
13:03do I think it will happen,
13:04I'd say yes, I think it probably will do
13:05at some point before the end of the window.
13:07There seems to be a bit of brinkmanship going on,
13:09which makes me nervous, to be honest.
13:11I never like it when it's like,
13:13you know, we'll happily let it run
13:15until the end of the window.
13:16But I do think that's one
13:18that's got a strong chance of happening at some point,
13:20but you just never know
13:20because there clearly is a fairly significant difference
13:23in valuation at the moment.
13:24But, you know, I think that,
13:28you know, Lebris last week
13:30was fairly bullish about something happening.
13:33You know, he did say that we're not close to anything,
13:36there's nothing about to happen,
13:37but I'm pretty confident we'll see something happening.
13:40He did kind of hint
13:40there might be some movement this week.
13:42So I do think that might be one to watch
13:44over the next few days,
13:45because, you know, he's normally very, very guarded,
13:47but he did kind of suggest
13:48that he felt that something was coming
13:50to come into the boil maybe a little bit.
13:52So let's wait and see on that one.
13:53But I think all the noises suggest
13:55that that's still the one that everyone's looking at.
13:59So fingers crossed.
14:00But yes, I am starting to get a little bit like,
14:03OK, let's do this now.
14:05There's only a couple of weeks to go.
14:08But yeah, my gut still tells me
14:10that one's got a good chance.
14:11But let's see.
14:13I do think that while nobody's saying
14:16that the need for an experienced striker
14:18is just as much as it was on Saturday,
14:20Miander's goals don't change that.
14:22But I think it's a massive moment
14:24in the wider picture
14:25in terms of having a group of strikers,
14:27having someone who, you know,
14:28you can trust and who's full of confidence.
14:30I do think that's such a massive boost,
14:33as much for the squad depth,
14:34as much as anything else.
14:36I think that's the wider point with Sunderland, isn't it?
14:38Is that, you know,
14:41the anger last season was in part
14:43down to poor performances,
14:44but also in part down to the fact
14:46that it was perhaps a little bit avoidable,
14:48because we all know that Sunderland
14:49have some fine, fine players,
14:52some really talented players,
14:53and they've shown that over these two games.
14:55They just needed a little bit of help,
14:56and there's perhaps a little bit of frustration
14:58that Sunderland haven't been able to push on
15:01in the transfer market
15:02when, you know,
15:03they had a mad Roberts and Clarke lighting it up.
15:05I know they did try with the Joe Geldhardt loan.
15:08Then you had, you know,
15:10last season in the championship,
15:12again, in January,
15:13they couldn't get Kiefer Moore over the line,
15:15and the squad depth does lack a little bit in places.
15:17I think that's,
15:18from the conversations I have with Sunderland fans,
15:20that's the most frustrating thing
15:21is that there's clearly a really good XI.
15:23There's probably even, you know,
15:24five or six behind the XI
15:26that could come in on an individual basis
15:29into a first team sort of lineup and do well,
15:31but it's a little bit of strength and depth at fullback,
15:34a little bit of strength and depth up front,
15:38because you do need a squad
15:39to get promoted out of the championship,
15:40which is the stated aim of the manager and the board.
15:44So, yeah, it's interesting times.
15:47I think that the last, what is it,
15:49like 11 days or something of the transfer window
15:52will be fascinating,
15:53because it would be lovely
15:54if that experienced striker
15:56could come in in the next couple of days,
15:57and then you can really assess
15:58what's going to happen with outgoings.
16:01We know it's not that simple,
16:02and obviously there's a huge question mark over Jack Clark.
16:06You don't want that to go late in the window.
16:07So there's a lot at stake, isn't there?
16:10Because, you know, we could see quite a bit of interest
16:15in some of Sunderland's players,
16:16given their start of the season.
16:19I mean, you mentioned Jack Clark there.
16:20We might as well talk about him,
16:22because obviously another really eye-catching display
16:24against Wednesday.
16:25He didn't score, but he got an assist for himself
16:28and just looked like an absolute nightmare
16:29down that left-hand flank,
16:30like he does on a weekly basis,
16:32like we're so used to seeing at this point.
16:34Flurry of reports around his future over the weekend,
16:38Leeds United being linked with a potential homecoming,
16:42talk about, you know,
16:43contract negotiations with Sunderland,
16:45maybe not quite lining up,
16:48you know, the club wanting one thing
16:49and the player maybe wanting a little bit more.
16:51I mean, where do you think we stand
16:53with the Jack Clark situation right now?
16:57I'm not convinced anything's actually changed,
17:00really, to be honest,
17:01in terms of like Sunderland would love to sign
17:05Jack Clark to a new contract,
17:06but there hasn't been a lot of talks
17:08really so far this year,
17:09just because I don't think anybody's
17:12really seen the value in it
17:13because there was such a big gap.
17:15Are Sunderland now looking to have another goal
17:18because there's some positivity,
17:20because they, you know,
17:21they think it's worth trying potentially?
17:23Do I see that gap being bridged?
17:25I think it's unlikely,
17:26but of course you never know.
17:28In terms of the summer transfer stuff,
17:32the thing that, you know,
17:33and James will be able to speak to this as well,
17:35the thing that's been said all summer,
17:36really behind the scenes
17:37when you speak to people in football
17:38is that Sunderland rightly
17:40have put a huge valuation on Clark
17:42because he's still got two years
17:43left on his contract
17:44and he's absolutely central to the team.
17:48That valuation has so far put off Premier League clubs.
17:51I think that's fair to say.
17:52There's teams who like Clark
17:54but aren't willing to go to that level
17:56of probably somewhere around 25 million.
17:59The situation has always been
18:00is one of those clubs going to,
18:02panic's not quite the right word,
18:03but as they get to the end of the window
18:05is someone going to decide,
18:06you know what,
18:06we actually need to go and push the button.
18:08That's always really been the case this summer
18:10and it's still the case.
18:12The only thing that's kind of changed,
18:14I guess, is the Leeds thing.
18:16So, you know,
18:17Leeds would not have been in the race
18:19for Jack Clark at the start of the summer.
18:21They sold Archie Gray for a lot of money,
18:23but they did that because they needed that sale
18:25for the profit and sustainability rules.
18:27What then happened is they brought in
18:2920 odd million for Somerville
18:31and then I think quite unexpectedly,
18:33they're bringing in 40 million
18:34for Rooter from Brighton.
18:36So now suddenly they do actually have
18:38a fairly significant amount of money
18:39that they can invest.
18:41Would they be willing to spend
18:42such a huge sum on Clark?
18:44I'm not so sure.
18:45Sunderland would be very reluctant
18:46to sell to a divisional rival,
18:48so it would have to be a big bid.
18:50And certainly the noises from the Leeds ender,
18:52that while they're obviously looking at Clark
18:54because he's such an obvious replacement
18:56for Somerville,
18:56because they're so similar
18:57and his championship record's so good,
18:59I think at the moment they feel like
19:02down the pecking order
19:03because there are Premier League clubs interested.
19:05So I know it's a bit of a non-update really,
19:07but I genuinely don't think anything's changed.
19:09There are a lot of clubs that like Clark
19:11and we're all still waiting to see
19:13if they're willing to go to the high valuation
19:15that Sunderland have put on him.
19:16If they do that,
19:17then there's a very good chance it'll happen.
19:19But as of yet,
19:20we just haven't had the indication
19:22that there is a team who's willing to do it.
19:25Because Sunderland quite rightly
19:26have made clear that there's a chance he goes,
19:29but it's going to cost an awful lot of money
19:31and that's unchanged really.
19:35I suppose the question
19:36that a lot of fans are asking as well, James,
19:39it does feel as if Jack Clark
19:41is a Premier League quality player.
19:42I think we're all in agreement there.
19:43And if a Premier League club were to come in,
19:46spend that money,
19:47take him up with them,
19:48then that's kind of one thing.
19:50But for him to move to another championship club,
19:53I mean, only the player himself will know, I guess,
19:56but that doesn't seem as enticing, does it?
20:00No.
20:02I'll stick my neck out on the line a little bit here,
20:04but I just don't see that Leeds move happening.
20:07I may be proved wrong and this might get clipped up
20:09and I might look like an idiot,
20:10but because of the Premier League interest on the table,
20:15the player will be aware of sort of Premier League money.
20:19Would Leeds pay more than perhaps Sunderland are offering?
20:22Possibly.
20:23Would it be as much as a Premier League club could offer?
20:26Probably not.
20:28Although they do have some cash in the bank.
20:30Does he want to go back to Leeds?
20:32I honestly don't know.
20:35I think for me, if Jack Clarke's moving,
20:37it's to step up.
20:39I'm not convinced he's going somewhere else in the championship,
20:42but we could be wrong.
20:44As Phil mentioned, Sunderland would be,
20:46you know,
20:48uneasy selling to a divisional rival,
20:50potentially one that would like to compete with as well
20:53over the season.
20:54I think, you know,
20:56for all the Stryker situation
20:59and the Alexandre Mendy situation is a little bit frustrating
21:02in a sense that clearly there's a gap in valuation
21:05and Sunderland perhaps aren't willing to go all the way to Cairn's valuation
21:10and was possibly the same with Kiefer Moorer in January.
21:16But on the flip side of that,
21:18when it's a player that you don't want to sell
21:20and Sunderland are playing hardball,
21:22it's quite admirable in a way, really,
21:23that they've got that valuation.
21:24There's a sell-on-fee due to Tottenham as well.
21:27They know how much that player is worth to Sunderland.
21:30He's hugely important
21:31and they're prepared to play hardball over it.
21:33I think that's sort of the flip side to this policy at Sunderland
21:36that actually does work quite well.
21:40But as we've mentioned several times on the podcast,
21:42you just don't want to get to a situation
21:44where he leaves right at the end of the window
21:46with, you know,
21:49an hour or a day or 15 minutes, whatever it is.
21:52That situation just leaves Sunderland with very little time
21:55to get anything done
21:57and to replace a player of Clarke's quality
21:59is going to be very difficult.
22:00You'd probably have to sort of recreate him in the aggregate,
22:02if that makes sense.
22:03And are you going to be able to do that amount of business
22:07in that short space of time?
22:08Are you going to do that before and prepare for Clarke going?
22:11And then even if Clarke doesn't go,
22:12still have those players there sitting around for six months.
22:15It's very, very difficult and I don't envy it.
22:17But I think at the moment,
22:20you just have to praise his professionalism as well
22:22because there's been a lot of talk about him for a long time
22:25and he continues to deliver, continues to perform,
22:28clearly has a good relationship with the Sunderland fans.
22:30And I think we've seen with Chris Rigg,
22:33although Clarke doesn't appear to be anywhere near
22:36signing a new contract,
22:37is that actually Sunderland fans make a big, big difference
22:41to players' thoughts
22:42and I think Sunderland fans' opinions really matter.
22:45And Clarke clearly loves it here.
22:46The love's reciprocated, I think.
22:48So I think he's probably quite relaxed about it, to be honest.
22:51I don't think he's banging down the door, demanding a move.
22:54He's clearly playing well and has done for a long time
22:58and Sunderland's a great stage to do it on.
23:01I do just wonder, though,
23:03although Sunderland are playing hardball and rightly so,
23:06whether now is the sweet spot to Stellan
23:08if you want to get as much money as possible
23:10because obviously if it drags into January or the next season,
23:15his valuation is going to go down a little bit
23:17just because of the time ticking on his contract.
23:19So I do wonder if he was to go
23:22and you knew you were going to lose him at some point
23:24in the next 18 months or so,
23:25whether now would be the best time to do it.
23:27Thank you for James and Phil for joining me
23:30and we will see you all next week.