Green Tiger executives on Times roundtable | The Manila Times Roundtable - video Dailymotion

The Manila Times

Green Tiger executives on Times roundtable  The Manila Times' columnist Ben Kritz interviews Carlos Korten and John Knorring, co-founders of Green Tiger Markets Pte. Ltd. during a roundtable at The Manila Times on Aug. 12, 2024. Korten is the company's president and Knorring is CEO.  Subscribe to The Manila Times Channel - https://tmt.ph/YTSubscribe   Visit our website at https://www.manilatimes.net   Follow us:  Facebook - https://tmt.ph/facebook  Instagram - https://tmt.ph/instagram  Twitter - https://tmt.ph/twitter  DailyMotion - https://tmt.ph/dailymotion   Subscribe to our Digital Edition - https://tmt.ph/digital   Check out our Podcasts:  Spotify - https://tmt.ph/spotify  Apple Podcasts - https://tmt.ph/applepodcasts  Amazon Music - https://tmt.ph/amazonmusic  Deezer: https://tmt.ph/deezer  Stitcher: https://tmt.ph/stitcher Tune In: https://tmt.ph/tunein  #TheManilaTimes #tmtnews #themanilatimesroundtable #energy

Transcript

00:00Hey, good afternoon, I'm Ben Kritz and I'm here with the brains behind Green Tiger Markets,

00:11John Noring and Carlos Korten.

00:15Thanks for coming in.

00:16It's good to see you guys again.

00:18As a little background, I first met John and Carlos about four years ago, right?

00:25About four years ago, when they were beginning the journey to develop the electricity forwards

00:32market platform that's available here in the Philippines.

00:37And I understand you guys are meeting with all kinds of success and have had some new

00:44developments now.

00:45So how's it going?

00:49First of all, thanks so much for having us.

00:53We really do appreciate it.

00:54It's great to see you again in person.

00:56I remember our first meeting back in February of 2020 in these offices.

01:00Little did we know that the world was going to change shortly after that.

01:05Yeah, I mean, Carlos and I were basically the last flight out of here.

01:08And we came away with a really high level of optimism about the Philippines and just

01:15the growth story.

01:19People were great.

01:20This is a market where, hey, they can really benefit from some of the skills that basically

01:24Carlos and I had picked up in our professions earlier.

01:27And of course, the pandemic hit.

01:31And for the first four or five months, from March of 2020 onwards, Carlos and I, we learned

01:38how to Zoom and we were writing user stories and doing wireframes for the platform to get

01:48it up.

01:50Real quick, the Green Tiger Markets is a platform where both generators of electricity and consumers

01:57of electricity can go to hedge or lock in the price either that they're going to pay

02:01or receive for power in the forward market.

02:05And so this is a concept that is widely accepted in the US.

02:12We have got lots of these markets.

02:16We saw, hey, there was an opportunity here in the Philippines to basically bring some

02:20of that technology and some of that expertise to help support the electricity market here.

02:26And Ben, you know this as well as anyone, but the Philippines has every kind of energy

02:31technology.

02:32It's hydro, it's solar, there's coal, there's natural gas, there's wind, there's biomass.

02:38And they all have different economics.

02:40And they all have different price exposure to risk.

02:43The spot market, the Western spot market, is very volatile in terms of prices.

02:47And any company that's exposed to the price, either if they're selling to the spot market

02:52or if they're buying from the spot market, they're just going to take whatever the price

02:56happens to be.

02:57And that results in wild fluctuations in price, which results in things like price shock.

03:06And consumers will feel price shock.

03:10And that is part of what makes our platform so timely for the Philippines, is you can

03:16put financial hedges in place against spot prices in wholesale electricity and lock in

03:23for a forward term for a year, a month, many years, and lock in a price that is fair and

03:30even, and then know that that is guaranteed.

03:34A lot of the wildness in the spot market is insulated.

03:39Yeah.

03:40Okay.

03:41Let's back up a second here, because I get this question all the time, every time I mention

03:48this.

03:49So, as simply as we can explain it, exactly what are suppliers and buyers of electricity

04:02doing in a forwards market?

04:04What exactly does that mean?

04:06Yeah.

04:07So, if you are a supplier or a generator, you have power to deliver to the market.

04:15And so, if the market price is very high, you benefit.

04:20And if it's low, you benefit a lot less.

04:24And so, the generator or the supplier is generally a seller into the market.

04:29And that way, they can lock in today, they can get a guaranteed price for their supply.

04:36Now, on the flip side, the consumers, they are exposed where, hey, if the spot market

04:43is very high, they get a problem, it costs them a lot more for their power.

04:49And if the spot market is very low, that's a big benefit.

04:52We saw prices during the pandemic in March, April, May, sometimes the power is free.

05:01And even there were some hours where it was negative price, where they were paying you

05:07to take the electricity.

05:12But very simply, a consumer, hey, they're going into the forward market, and they're

05:16looking to hedge by buying.

05:20And a supplier is going into the forward market and looking to sell.

05:25And important is that sellers, what they worry about every night when they go to bed is that

05:31the price will drop or go negative.

05:34And buyers are really worried that it's going to peak.

05:39And so, our contracts are designed so that buyers and sellers can mutually agree on a

05:44price and indemnify each other against the volatility.

05:49So, if John's a generator and I'm a buyer, we can agree that, hey, for 10 megawatts,

05:56you're going to protect me against spikes, and I'm going to protect you against a drop.

06:01Right.

06:02Now, this by itself, you know, the forwards trade, does it really necessarily reduce the

06:11power rates that we all pay?

06:14But how does it help for consumers?

06:18Yeah, so it doesn't necessarily today reduce the price that you see on your bill.

06:25However, what it does do is it makes it easier for both generators and consumers to lock

06:34in a price so that they have certainty.

06:37And if you're thinking about, hey, I've got this really volatile cash flow or stock or

06:45asset, hey, sometimes it's really good, sometimes it's really bad.

06:48Or I've got this other one that just it's the same amount every single day, that consistent

06:54same amount every day, asset or power plant or stock, whatever it is, is a lot more valuable

07:00than the one that's bouncing around a lot.

07:03And so, that certainty and that kind of guarantee of those straight cash flows makes it so that

07:11the market as a whole has to charge less of a risk premium into the price.

07:17So, there's a big portion of the Wesson price right now that we refer to as risk premium.

07:24And that's because, hey, it might be high, it might be low, I need to, if I'm a generator,

07:28I need to get kind of a little extra compensated because it's really volatile.

07:32And the same as, you know, and basically that gets passed through to the consumer.

07:38And so, over time, because less risk premium is demanded by the generators, the price will

07:47tend to drift lower.

07:48But in the meantime, that idea of, hey, if you're locking in a price and it's the same

07:54price that you're paying every month versus, you know, what we saw this year, the first

07:58three months of the year were very, very cheap, then the next three months were very, very

08:03expensive.

08:04So, there's a big difference in weather and rain, but, you know, if you're a consumer

08:10and you say, oh, man, my price was, you know, seven pesos in January, February, March, and

08:16then April you wake up and it's 11 pesos, that's a problem.

08:22But that comes from the fact that basically the DUs and the ECs aren't hedging enough.

08:28They aren't spreading that risk and locking in today.

08:34Well, okay.

08:35Here's an example, I guess, that people could actually relate to because this has been in

08:41the news, you know, fairly recently.

08:44But Moralco's rates where they ran into the problem with the fuel got so much more expensive

08:51because of the Ukraine war.

08:54So, I was telling you yesterday when we spoke, if you look at their applications for power

09:00supply agreements, you know, they actually, in their calculations, they actually calculate,

09:06well, here's some slack, you know, in case the price goes up or down a lot.

09:15And so, with the forwards market, they no longer have to add that part in their calculations,

09:23which instantly becomes that disappearing off of our bills.

09:28In the supply chain, it really helps if there's certainty.

09:32And the economics are locked in and smooth.

09:35Even if electricity is going to get more expensive just because the economy's growing and there's

09:40more demand, that can be done in a smooth, over-time manner as opposed to volatile and

09:45spiky.

09:48And to the positive, if there's a lot of new generation that comes in that would drive

09:51prices down on a forward, that would also be smoothed out, but you would be able to

09:56see it in a gradual kind of over-time.

10:00And one of the points of a forward market is we have price signals to say, oh, there's

10:05a trade that just happened for 2026 electricity, and it was at a certain price point.

10:11And then we make that price available to the market so that everyone knows, hey, electricity

10:15just traded in 2026 at this price, and that becomes an indicator for investors who may

10:21be looking to buy generation or electricity cooperatives that are trying to lock in their

10:25supply for future years.

10:28Where is the price of electricity on a forward basis so that they can be more planful and

10:33more efficient in their capital utilization?

10:37If you can share, I know some of this is probably confidential information, but how much have

10:48you guys grown?

10:50How many customers have you got?

10:51How many deals have you got?

10:53Now, I understand you've also just recently had a kind of a noteworthy one, so if you

10:59guys want to talk about that a little bit, too.

11:01Yeah, sure.

11:02So on the client front, we're signing clients up kind of every week right now.

11:08The measure that we like to look at is, okay, if you're a generator and you signed up and

11:15you've got 2,000 megawatts of generation, we put that on the generator side, and if

11:20you're a consumer and you're a res and you've got 1,000 megawatts or whatever it is, we

11:26sort of add that up, and I think we're up to about 14,000 or 15,000 megawatts of generation

11:34that has signed up out of, call it 25,000 to 28,000 nameplate installed capacities.

11:41Right, so about 28,000, yeah.

11:44So roughly half of the generation stack has signed up, and we're running about a third

11:49on the consumption side.

11:51So yeah, so if you add up all the consumers that are generally on the buy side, yeah,

11:57it works out to about a third of the consumption stack here, which is really exciting.

12:03I mean, it's been a challenge.

12:06Obviously, we started during the pandemic, and sort of getting the ball rolling took

12:10some time, but we did our first transaction early last year, and it just seems like it's,

12:20I grew up in Chicago, so to say that it's snowballing, yeah, so maybe not appropriate,

12:27but yeah, it's picking up steam, and I'm glad you brought up the significant transaction,

12:34so it was really exciting.

12:36On Friday, one of the innovations that we came up with during the pandemic, as we saw

12:42the push from the Philippines government to add more RE to the mix, was the contracts

12:51that were available for the solar generators didn't match the risk that they had.

12:59So most of the contracts were a baseload or a 24-7 contract, so if you're a solar generator

13:08and you sold one of these baseload contracts, you had to deliver power every hour, but your

13:15generating facility only produced it basically between the hours of 8 a.m. and 4 p.m., so

13:20there was a lot of extra risk that the generators were actually taking on by hedging that way.

13:27So what we did was we said, hey, there's a solution here, which is, one, what if the

13:33contracts only referenced 8 a.m. to 4 p.m.?

13:37Now, that's great for the solar generators, but a market can only function if there's

13:43both a buyer and a seller.

13:45Well, it turns out that no surprise during the middle of the day is the peak demand,

13:51so we've seen a lot of these retail electricity suppliers that come in and say, hey, I need

13:56to buy power from the middle of the day.

14:00People are flipping on their air conditionings, the elevators are running, all kinds of different

14:04uses for the electricity.

14:07So they've got the buy exposure, and the solar guys have the sell exposure, and so we created

14:14this product with that in mind, and actually we just executed our first transaction on

14:20Friday.

14:21So we had a generator sell all of 2025, so every month of 2025 from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m.,

14:30and then on the buy side, we had a retail electricity supplier.

14:33So they both locked in their price today for power for the next, starting in January, for

14:40the next 12 months.

14:41I think the important innovation here is these contracts that John's describing, the base

14:46load contract exists in the U.S. market, and exists in Japan, and exists in Europe,

14:51and now on our platform exists in the Philippines.

14:54What's new is the construct that John was describing, the 8 a.m. to 4 p.m., which is

14:59uniquely suitable for solar and renewable energy, and that's something that when we

15:04look around the world in terms of innovation, that structure hasn't been brought to market

15:09before.

15:10So the trade that happened late last week was the first time the midday power sold as

15:16a standalone product.

15:17So not only the first here in the Philippines, but possibly the first in the world.

15:23So far as we know.

15:24Yeah.

15:25So far as we know, it's the first midday contract.

15:28And the importance of that is, of course, the solar electricity is generally much cheaper

15:37than produced.

15:38And there's going to be a lot of it.

15:41Produced by coal plant, and especially at that time of the day when demand is high,

15:45because, of course, that makes the price go up.

15:47So now at the time of the day when power would ordinarily be more expensive, the retail electric

15:56supplier has now gotten a good deal on it.

15:59Yes.

16:00So that their customers will benefit from lower rates that way.

16:04That's right.

16:05And so it turns out that in terms of the price that actually transacted, it's about 10 percent

16:10cheaper than we're seeing for the around-the-clock power strip.

16:16So the retail electricity supplier during his peak demand is getting power cheaper than

16:24kind of the average price of the day.

16:27So now we've got a seller because he wants to lock it in and guarantee his cash flows

16:33for next year.

16:34Right.

16:35So he wants to go and move on and build another utility-scale solar farm.

16:42But basically the only way that he can do that is if he basically can hedge his project.

16:48So both parties seem to be very pleased with the end result, even though the price was

16:56a little bit lower for the generator.

16:58Right.

16:59But you kind of hinted at another, they want to build some more.

17:03That's right.

17:05This is a signal to other investors that government wants to add more renewable energy and sell

17:09off their capacity in the green energy market or the auction that they have that they only

17:16sold about 30 percent of the last time.

17:19But now an investor that's interested can look at it and say, ah, OK, I can do this

17:24and I know that I will get a consistent price for an extended period of time.

17:30So now it's worth it.

17:33That's an important point.

17:34There are a lot of solar developers that are looking to secure their financing to put utility-scale

17:39solar in place.

17:40And one of the things that the underwriters really need is certainty in future revenues.

17:45That's always been the challenge, especially for solar, I think, is that they can't get

17:50financing unless they're going to have guaranteed revenue and they can't guarantee the revenue

17:57unless they build the thing.

17:58So that's right.

17:59They're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

18:01It's a big chicken-and-egg problem, but it is solvable.

18:08If you look at electricity markets, either in the U.S. or Europe or Australia, they provide

18:13that price signal to the market.

18:15And right now, the Philippines is flashing, I guess, green, saying, hey, the price is

18:20really good here.

18:22And we like to sort of use the example that if the price is high, that sends a signal

18:29to the market that, hey, you should produce more of this good.

18:33And if the price is low, it sends a signal to the market that you should consume more

18:37of this good.

18:38But if you don't know what the price is, how do you make a decision on to produce more

18:43or consume more?

18:44And so now that there's an actual market-traded price for this power, it's sending a signal

18:50all over the world right now saying, and trust me, we're telling people all around that,

18:55hey, here's the price that it's transacting.

18:58And solar developers around the world are eyeing the Philippines now.

19:04And it's probably a good moment for the country because there's other places like the U.S.

19:10and Australia where the environment is a little bit tricky for investors, or they're becoming

19:17not so favorable.

19:20What kind of, two questions.

19:25First of all, how hard was it to get that first trade?

19:31It was easy.

19:33I know you've told me this story, but just to give people a taste of how things work

19:42here, how difficult was it to get the first buyer and seller to jump?

19:49And what other kind of challenges have you guys encountered as far as pushback from regulators

19:58or skepticism within the industry?

20:03Because I know it's been four years, and I know it's not been an easy road the whole

20:09time.

20:10Yeah.

20:11I mean, the pandemic obviously was a challenge.

20:13We weren't able to come over here and be here in person.

20:16And I would say that single factor was probably the most important to going from zero to one,

20:23was being able to come here in person to meet the clients.

20:27Yeah, Zoom's great.

20:30Once you've had a few in-person meetings, hey, Zoom's all you need.

20:33So you can avoid the traffic situation.

20:38But we came over in January of 23, and it took a couple months for a few of the players

20:47to get organized, say, OK, we really want to do this.

20:51And so we had our first client sign up in March, I believe, of last year.

20:57And then we had two or three more come in over the next few months.

21:02They were all sellers.

21:04And then we had a client sign up as a buyer.

21:08And so obviously, in a market, you need a buyer and a seller.

21:10If you just have sellers, it doesn't work.

21:12So it took a little while to find a buyer.

21:14But once we found that buyer, the market very quickly firmed up in terms of, hey, what was

21:21kind of the price that was going to trade?

21:24And we got the transaction done.

21:27Our first trade was August to December around the clock power.

21:31And I think the price was 5,900 pesos per megawatt hour.

21:37So 5.9 per KW.

21:41So yeah.

21:42So it was a challenge.

21:45Now a lot of it is, hey, we send documents, they send documents.

21:50We kind of go back and forth.

21:51And just the time change, it does present a challenge.

21:55So I got to get up pretty early in the morning to have a business hours meeting here.

22:00One thing that John's talking about in terms of being here in person is that trust is so

22:04important, especially for an early stage company.

22:07Nobody knows what Green Tiger Markets is.

22:09So to build those relationships in an industry, it's an established industry with established

22:14players, it really helped for us to be present and attentive and responsive.

22:22And face-to-face really helped with that in our early days.

22:26Our product in the market construct itself is novel for the Philippines.

22:31Novelty is a challenge, just in general, because it's not the way companies have operated

22:37in the past.

22:39Most of them haven't done a contract for difference in the past.

22:43They have different orientations or mindset around spot exposure and what is risk to them.

22:50And so we've spent a lot of time and we continue to spend a lot of time teaching.

22:54A lot of it is about how does commodities work and what is a financial hedge.

23:01How is that different from a PSA?

23:04And how does the legal construct work and how does settlement work and the mechanics

23:07of these contracts?

23:10Because there isn't a lot of precedent and we spend a lot of time with companies meeting

23:15with their accountants and meeting with their lawyers and talking about compliance and talking

23:20about being good citizens and things like that.

23:23And that is a process that takes a long time.

23:26But where we are now, I think we have really good relationships with the participants we

23:34have on place, which is like half the generators and about a third of the distribution.

23:40And that is paying dividends now.

23:41And what we're seeing as a proof point is for the first time this year, we have inbounds

23:47coming to us where we have independent power producers that we haven't discovered that

23:54are discovering us and saying, oh, I need replacement power.

23:58And I was shopping around and someone said, oh, you should think about Green Tiger.

24:03And then they sent an inbound to us and we're like, oh, how have we not met before this?

24:08And that's a new thing now.

24:11We use those types of proof points just as a measure of our progress.

24:16I think one of the other exciting inbounds was the electricity cooperative that called

24:21and said, hey, we heard about this Green Tiger markets.

24:24Our power prices are all over the gym.

24:28And what can you do to help?

24:31And so that is an ongoing discussion right now.

24:35But I'm confident that our products, whether it's an electricity cooperative or a DU or a

24:41res, it's the same.

24:43It's a level playing field for everybody.

24:45So to allow the ECs access to this hedging market, we believe is really important for

24:56the growth and stability of the electricity market here.

25:00I think we started out targeting a lot of the big players in energy.

25:05And one of the things we're doing now is reaching out to the middle market and the long tail.

25:09So smaller generators, electricity cooperatives in rural areas.

25:15And it's a very different problem for them because the big players know exactly what

25:18the price of electricity is at any given time.

25:21They have a giant phone book of companies to call and consumers.

25:26The smaller power producers don't have those types of sales resources and a marketplace

25:32like ours that gives them price transparency on a forward basis and access to lots of buyers

25:38and sellers is a real game changer for them.

25:41And then the same thing on the EC side.

25:43Some of the electricity cooperatives we're looking at take 70 or 80 percent of their

25:48power from spot unhedged.

25:50Right.

25:51And so sometimes they're paying 2,000 pesos per megawatt and sometimes it's 13 or 15.

25:56And it could be anywhere in between.

25:58And they're trying to manage that for their customers and show a fixed price.

26:04It's a very, very problematic situation for them.

26:08And for them to use our platform to lock in and say, I'm going to find someone that's

26:12going to sell me power for 5.5 per kilowatt, that's a great price.

26:17And then they know that they can offer, they'll put in their margins and then they can offer

26:23that price for the duration of their hedge.

26:27And that'll go a long way to solving price shock.

26:31That just gave me a thought.

26:36Have you had any discussions with the National Electrification Administration?

26:42Not yet.

26:43They're on our list.

26:44I'm here for another week to 10 days.

26:47That is right.

26:48Something in their wheelhouse is helping these cooperatives be a little more financially

26:54stable.

26:55And that's obviously a big part of it.

26:57I think, Ben, it's fair to say that we're discovering the best way to reach out to the

27:03industry on the generation side, on the distribution side.

27:07There are a lot of industry groups that help solar developers get financing.

27:11So we're trying to talk to them and help familiarize them with financial hedging.

27:17And then spending time with the regulators, with the DOE and with the ERC to make sure

27:23that they understand what we're doing in the market and how we can help and familiarizing

27:28them.

27:28Because they get a lot of inbound calls about us to say, you know, what are these green

27:32tiger guys doing?

27:33What has been the feedback from the DOE and the ERC?

27:41I mean, are they supportive of this?

27:45Or, you know, are they like, hey, you know, it's fine.

27:49Yeah, we're solving a lot of problems that are important for them, right?

27:52But I will say that, again, to the point that its novelty is very unsettling.

27:59And the regulators don't have an established rule book for how to handle a marketplace

28:05like ours.

28:06So they're trying to put fair guardrails in place without removing competition and without

28:14stifling the private sector.

28:16So I think from their perspective, they're doing a lot of learning.

28:20We're doing a lot of outreach to make sure that they're familiar and they have the

28:23information that they need to just to help that conversation go to go forward.

28:29But I would describe their participation as supportive.

28:34Yep.

28:35And maybe attentive is maybe the better adjective, which is they're attentive.

28:42They're maybe cautiously optimistic.

28:45But again, there's so much that's new.

28:48And as regulators, I think they're trying to find their right role.

28:52So, yeah, I mean, I think we're having very productive conversations with both the DOE

28:58and the ERC.

29:00Now, ultimately, our regulator is actually the Monetary Authority of Singapore because

29:04we are a Singapore based company and we fit into their regulatory framework just fine.

29:12And so, you know, it does sort of present a bit of a challenge when you have another

29:18regulator looking at, you know, a company that that sits under somebody else's purview.

29:24So but ultimately, you know, we were here to help bring transparency and price discovery

29:31and liquidity to the Philippines electricity market.

29:35And, yeah, we'd absolutely like to work, you know, constructively with the industry

29:41and basically all of the stakeholders because it matters.

29:44I mean, you've got some very expensive electricity here and, you know, it doesn't need to be

29:49that way.

29:50And just because the price of electricity goes down a little bit doesn't mean that the

29:53generator's profitability goes down.

29:55So that's that's one thing to keep in mind.

29:59And that goes back to that certainty argument.

30:01So if you're guaranteed a profit, you know, your your stock price is probably going to

30:07go up.

30:08So, yeah, yeah, we're we're, you know, keeping an open dialogue and an open mind.

30:15It helps with the regulators that we didn't invent these products, right?

30:20This construct exists in other markets in the world.

30:23And so we can reference the experience of the U.S. market, the Australian market, and

30:27then and then project that into the Philippines.

30:30And the Philippines is a really interesting place for these products to succeed.

30:34So and especially because prices are so high and so volatile, it's like we're exactly the

30:40right solution at the right time.

30:43So you've just you've just had your first your first trade on the on the on the new

30:50solar product.

30:50Yeah.

30:51What's what's next?

30:53What kind of things are you looking at?

30:55Yeah, well, I can add beyond that.

30:58Obviously, it's it's it's rinse and repeat on the on the products that that we've done,

31:04you know, already.

31:06And that's just kind of the beauty of the way that the technology works that, you know,

31:09to do it again is is really, really easy to do.

31:14Now, we've started discussions.

31:15So so we mentioned we've got about half of the installed capacity of the Philippines

31:21market.

31:22Now, you'll if you know anything about the fuel stack here, it's probably 60 to 70 percent

31:28coal and then anywhere from 10 to 20 percent gas.

31:32That gas is coming from Malampaya generally.

31:37And that's obviously depleting now.

31:40Yeah, for now.

31:41Exactly.

31:42But there's actually a very large and well-developed market for liquefied natural gas.

31:48And there was just the announcement between San Miguel and Aboides and Moralco on the

31:53LNG import facility that we're working with some of the generators.

32:00We're already helping them sell the products that they that they are producing, the electricity

32:06now to be able to and to hedge that exposure.

32:09And now we're turning the other direction, saying, hey, can we help you hedge your input

32:14cost or your fuel cost?

32:16And so, you know, we're optimistic that we can get our first transaction in LNG done

32:22later this year.

32:23I feel like we're we're close.

32:26And but yeah, that that's that's probably, you know, what's next.

32:32And one of the longer term projects, well, we think it's longer.

32:36We're we're ready to go today on it, but is the renewable energy certificate market.

32:41And obviously, you know, this is a market that's been in construction for about six

32:46years or so here.

32:48We've talked about this several times and I've also I've also talked to people like

32:56Wesson, you know, about the same thing.

32:58And yeah, that's that's a that's apparently a challenge for everyone.

33:04Yeah.

33:05Now, ultimately, to to to list that market and have it trade in a transparent manner

33:12that's repeatable for us, that's our core business.

33:16We actually already have built the marketplace for renewable energy certificates to trade

33:22on a renewable basis, just like we have for electricity, just like we've done for all

33:27the other metals markets that we launched before Philippines electricity.

33:30And so we've got that up and running.

33:32It's just a matter of, hey, can we get everybody to agree that this is how it's going to work?

33:38And so that's one of the projects that we're working on.

33:40It's going to take a little longer than we imagine for ourselves and Rex is the forward

33:45market.

33:46So there is a described mechanism for to trade the current vintage of Rex, not fully

33:53implemented, I'd say.

33:55But we could certainly be the market for for companies to buy and sell future vintages.

34:04Like, for example, if I'm a solar developer, I can sell 10 years worth of Rex and we use

34:11our platform as the mechanism to find the right price and to actually find a counterparty

34:16for that.

34:16So we'll see.

34:18Like John said, that is probably a long road.

34:22Yeah, well, like you said, they haven't quite figured out the they haven't quite figured

34:27out the current.

34:28Yeah.

34:28You know, the current edition yet, as I know from talking to the wholesale market guys,

34:35this is a conversation that if we really got into it, there would be one or two government

34:40agencies that, you know, might look bad.

34:43So maybe we won't get into all that here.

34:47We have just we have just a couple of minutes left.

34:51But why don't you guys make a little pitch?

34:54If any electric cooperatives or, you know, RES people are, you know, listening in, how

35:02do they get in touch with you?

35:04Yeah.

35:04You know, what's what's the steps that they can take to, you know, to to look into this?

35:09Yeah.

35:09So in terms of getting in touch with us, we we obviously have a website, www.greentigermarket.com.

35:17There's there's a hey, learn more on the website.

35:24But yeah, when it comes to an electricity cooperative or RES, you know, we've seen a

35:30lot of kind of Facebook posts of people complaining about their electricity cooperatives that

35:36their their electric bill more than doubled from February to to May.

35:42Ultimately, that's a solvable problem and it's being solved every day on Green Tiger

35:49Market.

35:49So so we'd love to have you.

35:52Don't don't hesitate to reach out over the website.

35:56And yeah, we're we we'd absolutely love to have you.

36:00Yeah, the the all of our rule books and our contracts are listed on the website.

36:06And then we also have a series of YouTube videos on how does this work?

36:12And where's the compliance framework?

36:14So there's a lot of self-study material that we mentioned.

36:18We do a lot of teaching in terms of this is a new construct.

36:22And here's what it means.

36:23And here's how it can be applied in the context of different businesses.

36:26So if there's interest, that's a that's a good resource as well.

36:32OK, well, I think we'll we'll leave it at that.

36:35John Norring, Carlos Korten from Green Tiger Markets.

36:38It's great to see you guys again.

36:41And thanks for taking a little time out to talk with us.

36:44I'm Ben Kritz and have a good afternoon.

Green Tiger executives on Times roundtable | The Manila Times Roundtable

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