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CreativityTranscript
00:00Greta really made a meal out of the hi Bobby, hi Bobby, hi Ken, hi Ken, you know that whole
00:04bit and then hi Alan and yeah now people on the street say hi Bobby a lot. Probably. I like it,
00:10I'd rather people be shouting that at me than other things. This is true. I'll take it.
00:14For the rest of your life.
00:30First of all, well congratulations on your reasonably successful film.
00:39Congratulations to you.
00:40Thank you. So you're a producer on the movie as well. How did you know a Barbie movie would
00:48connect with audiences in the manner that it did? Or did you know?
00:54Yeah it's like 90% of me was certain that this would be a big deal and a massive hit
01:00and then like 10% of me thought no this could go so badly wrong. But I went after Greta Gerwig
01:06from the beginning to direct and hopefully write as well and then she invited Noah to write with
01:11her without really even consulting him but it meant we got two brilliant brains on the project
01:17and it really came down to her saying yes to this. I had no doubt that this was going to work
01:23as soon as she said yes.
01:24And she was always your first choice then?
01:26First choice. I just wasn't gonna let her say no. I had met her before because I wanted to
01:31work with her for a while. You know it was a pretty long process. It was about six years ago
01:36we got the property. First we had to you know it was set up at Sony. We got out of Sony,
01:40set it up at Warner Brothers, got Mattel's blessing to let us produce, then went after
01:44Greta. And then it was like the writing process and yeah I obviously I didn't know it was gonna
01:50have the kind of be the cultural phenomenon that it ended up being.
01:56When did you realize that that was what it was going to be?
01:59I knew there'd be big reactions to I could say it was all the way along I could I was like okay I
02:06think people are picking up that we're trying to do something interesting here you know the fact
02:09that it's Greta Gerwig people like Greta Gerwig in a Barbie movie what? And so that was the right
02:13reaction that's what I was hoping for. And then you know the pictures of Ryan and I rollerblading
02:18on Venice Beach came out and like went even wider than I was expecting that I was like oh people
02:23are going to notice of course but it went kind of crazy and it was starting to occur that oh this
02:29might even be bigger than I'm even thinking and I believe in this more than anyone so. Yeah of
02:33course. I'd been thinking big for it and it still turned out bigger than I expected. Hey Barbie.
02:38Yeah. Can I come to your house tonight? Sure. I don't have anything big planned just a giant
02:43blowout party with all the Barbies and planned choreography and a bespoke song you should stop by.
02:47In terms of this the sort of the version of the film and the adaptation or the the idea of it
02:53you know were Mattel cool with that from the beginning? Did you have any kind of pushback with
02:58how kind of radical you were trying to make? Yeah they I mean Mattel were amazing to let us do this
03:07and I mean they're a character in the film. Yes. Which I don't think they were expecting at all
03:12but they had no idea until the script was done so Greta and Noah's process is to go away and not
03:18let anyone see the script. Even you? Until they're totally finished no even me. We would kind of like
03:23because it was COVID so they were writing it during COVID we would do you know talk over
03:28Zoom and check in and be like how you guys going and it was so fun because you could watch Greta
03:33and Noah like you know they're like oh we're working on this idea so they tell us you know
03:37like working on this idea and then they kind of like you know when you talk to a comedian you can
03:41tell sometimes they're like testing bits on you they kind of like test bits with each other and
03:46we would just sit and Tom and I would just sit and like watch them and be like yeah yeah because
03:51Ken's probably you know Ken would probably be like and you know say something and then she'd
03:55jump in and be like yeah it's kind of like and then before you know it they're kind of writing
03:59a scene but verbally and in front of you and it's a fascinating process and they write chronologically
04:04so they don't map something out and then write it which a lot of writers obviously do but they
04:10write themselves into corners and write themselves out of corners. Yes like we used to do as kids
04:13just like yeah yeah and like let it unfold and I think because of that the story has a quality of
04:19you know you're not getting too far ahead of it like because they didn't know where it was
04:23going to end up really so it was fascinating to kind of watch their process and I think the movie
04:29is so you know amazing and original because of that process but then yeah came the day where
04:36the script was in our inbox and Tom and I sat down on the couch to read it and like even on
04:42page one I was just like oh wow okay this is it's going to be hard to get convince them to let us
04:49to do this but I'm loving it I mean it started with a Kubrick reference like completely redoing
04:542001 A Space Odyssey and I was like oh I don't know if this is what Mattel had in mind and then
04:59by the end of this script you know I was just like wow they're just they're never going to let us
05:04make this it's such a shame that this brilliant piece of writing will never see the light of day
05:08because they're never going to let us make this and they did thank god and a massive credit to
05:15them but it was a lot of conversations about getting them comfortable with being very very
05:21very uncomfortable. So they had a sense of humor. They did and you know Mattel they're a toy company
05:27and they haven't made a movie before so there's also like a educational process of like oh okay
05:32this is what you're reading on the page. It took a second for me to realize that some of their
05:36concerns could be assuaged just by explaining the process of it. For some things they're like
05:40but Barbie's saying this and I'd be like okay but this is how I'm going to do it and then I'd say it
05:45and they're like oh and I'm like see how my my face is telling you that I don't think that but
05:49the words are saying that but that's subtext and there's subtext all through that you know
05:54and they'll be like oh okay so they're and then still there's some jokes where they're just like
05:58so we have to use the word fascist. Do we need that bit where Mattel gets shot? Do they have to
06:05be shot? You know we're like yeah so there were certain jokes and I was so prepared to like fight
06:14for certain jokes and then like you know to explain like oh we have to have that joke because
06:18this and this and this and some of them they're just like we're fine with and then other jokes
06:24I didn't think they'd have a problem with you know but it was never a case of oh they didn't
06:28like that so let's cut it it was no no we we need to explain why we think that should be in there
06:34and get everyone like I said comfortable with being uncomfortable.
06:39Did you think so many people were gonna watch a movie about the making of the atomic bomb?
06:46No, Christopher Nolan was always determined that it would be released in the summer as a big ten-fold
06:54movie that was always his plan and he has this kind of superstition about the atomic bomb and
07:01he's determined that it would be released in the summer as a big ten-fold movie that was always his
07:06plan and he has this kind of superstition around that date. Do all his movies come out on that date?
07:12In and around the 21st of July or it could be always the 21st so they're always they always
07:17come out then. I mean it's a good date. It's a good day. I remember one of the producers John
07:24Groban called me because we worked together on some other projects okay he was like I think you
07:28guys should move your date and I was like we're not moving our date if you're scared to be up
07:32against us then you move your date he's like we're not moving our date I just think it'd be better
07:36for you to move and I was like we're not moving I think this is a really great pairing actually I
07:40think it's like well it's a perfect double billing Oppenheimer and Barbie. That was a good instinct.
07:47Clearly the world agreed. Yeah they did but I think that both of these films show the appetite
07:56that the audience has for cinema. I'm always like you know everyone talks about the algorithm I'm
08:02like how on earth is an algorithm tracking me because I have such an eclectic taste if you
08:07look you'd be like wow she's going from that you know that black and white film from the 20s to
08:13Love Island so like what box do I put her in yeah same thing but the fact that people were going and
08:17being like I'll watch Oppenheimer first then Barbie I was like see you don't people like everything
08:21people are people are weird people have specific and wide-ranging tastes and they don't like being
08:28told what to do yeah audiences don't like being told you should see this or you should see that
08:32they will decide and they will generate the interest themselves and I think I think what
08:36happened with both of our movies was a case in point of that that the audience decided
08:41you know that this was correct and this was right I think they were also really excited by the
08:44filmmakers I think you're right yeah I think people are like itching for the next Chris
08:49Nolan film and itching for the next Greta Gerwig yes to get them at the same time was you know
08:54exciting quantum mechanics says it's both how can it be both it can't but it is it's paradoxical
09:02and yet it works because I'm a fan of yours I have watched a lot of your things on the internet
09:07on YouTube and there's kind of like it's out there on the internet that you're not that aware of memes
09:14and things like that first of all is that true and second of all if that is true were you even
09:20aware of the barbenheimer like phenomenon or were you just blissfully unaware because
09:26you use a dial-up phone or something all right no I have I have teenage boys I have two teenage
09:31boys so they keep doing this so and I do know what a meme is now I know that there are memes about me
09:40not knowing what a meme it's a great meme but it's like inception of memes a meme within a meme
09:47genuinely at the time did not know but people forget that was a while ago it was a long time
09:52ago yeah you know I might not have known back then what a meme is no and I mean I'm not that tech
09:57savvy exactly and I think children started that stuff right so yeah so it wasn't as but now that
10:04it's become this sort of like meme that's eating itself um uh I am aware but it's mostly because
10:11of people either sending it to me or showing say look you gotta look at this yeah but I do think
10:15that if you see any of the barbenheimer I mean it was impossible to um wasn't there some great ones
10:21avoid any of that stuff um which is people are so clever with the things that come up it was
10:26incredible and it was self-generated you know what I mean I know people kept asking me they're like
10:30so uh so the studio is talking the studio each department marketing department is talking to
10:35each other and I was like no this is the world doing this the world this is not a part of the
10:39marketing campaign this is just happening and I think it's it happened because like both movies
10:45were good yeah yeah that's the thing and there was a sort of a diversity offered by both yeah
10:51movies in fact that's somewhere there was a huge diversity of stuff in the cinema and like
10:58I think it just connected in a way that you or I or the studios or anybody could never have
11:04predicted we could never have predicted no orchestrate that no and it may never happen
11:10again I know you know I mean it was wild seeing that many people going in the movies yeah wild
11:17did you go to the movie did you go to see Oppenheimer or did you go to see Barbie do you
11:20sneak out and and see like what the vibe is I mean we were going around the cinemas checking like
11:26levels and things like that yeah well that's I guess you're a producer you you kind of do that I
11:31I try I try to avoid looking at myself I struggle with it um isn't the mask the best thing the what
11:37oh yes wear a mask everywhere yes that is everywhere again it's so good I wouldn't
11:42volunteer to go and to see myself no but I do know that Chris and Emma Chris Nolan and Emma
11:50Thomas his wife producer I think they were going they were sneaking into checking house yeah but
11:56then like the fact that people were going dressed up as Barbie or dressed up as Oppenheimer to go
12:00and see the movies multiple times it's so it's kind of so flattering and you know um kind of
12:07overwhelming and so great for cinema totally yeah like being the producer and being the star of the
12:14movie how did you manage to kind of um I guess split those responsibilities or uh was that
12:21difficult uh were you always going to play Barbie I wasn't always gonna not necessarily I
12:28you know even when we got the property and sat with Mattel I said you know they were like will
12:33you play Barbie yeah I said no that's up to the filmmaker so it's you know I want to go after
12:37Greta Gerwig and she should cast whoever she wants and yeah if that's not me like that's okay and I
12:42said that to Greta as well it's like you write the script that you want to write you and Noah write it
12:46and if you think I'm the right actor for it great and if you don't like let's go get the best actor
12:50for it I really didn't I didn't mind I really wanted to produce this I really wanted to make
12:56this it wasn't until I read the script that I was like oh I have to play yeah and she'd written it
13:01like Barbie Margot so she made it pretty clear like no I want you to play this role but you've
13:07done five movies with Christopher Nolan now this is six actually six really yeah so you like the guy
13:15big fan it seems to work you know I mean this is the first time playing a proper lead role for him
13:21they'd always been supporting parts over the years it's 20 years we're working together
13:26has your relationship changed or evolved in that time I mean I think that it's probably gotten
13:34you know richer I think you know I was certainly just kind of starting off back then or starting
13:40to work and properly in film and he had just made the leap in you know for making independent
13:46films into making big studio movies and and he was taking over this franchise for the first time
13:51with Batman Begins and obviously just nailed it but I think he's refining and refining his kind
13:56of vision and how the types of stories he wants to tell and how he wants to present them you know
14:01like moving into IMAX and he was the first director to do that. When did he start shooting always in the
14:06large format? I think it was a dark night where the I think that opening sequence at the beginning
14:12I think that's an IMAX you remember when Heath breaks into the bank and all that I think that's
14:16in IMAX I think that's the I could be wrong I think that's one of the first times that he
14:20started using it but like in Oppenheimer we were using it almost all the time yeah and they come
14:25at you it's like it's like a film I mean those cameras must be so heavy yeah yeah so loud so
14:33heavy have you worked with him with IMAX? No but I know he shoots on IMAX and always on film so
14:39yeah imagine like to get more than a four minute take those mags must be massive they're huge and
14:46our amazing DP Hoyte was like carries them everywhere like I remember in Dunkirk we were
14:54like on a boat in the middle of the ocean and Hoyte would have the thing on his shoulder
14:59and it's like these beautifully composed shots but to answer your question I don't know I suppose
15:04as you get older you just get a bit more confident in the sort of stories you want to tell and I
15:08suppose I you know I've learned a huge amount from working with Chris in terms of focus and rigor and
15:14dedication and I think we have similar tastes and I think he may have you know helped form my kind of
15:22my taste but before I even worked with him the movies that he had made prior to Batman Begins I
15:27was a fan of and I really just wanted to you know meet him and that happens a lot isn't it like you
15:32were fans of directors and then you get to meet them and next thing you're working with them and
15:37it's kind of nuts because you were at home watching their movies when you're a kid I don't know if
15:42that happens a lot but when it does happen it's like magic this is true I'm sure that's happened
15:46to you it had I've like reached out to people I really want to work yeah I've done that written
15:51letters and yeah the letter thing does work I have to say does I mean sometimes it doesn't but
15:56sometimes it does people appreciate a handwritten letter that you sit down to write I believe in that
16:01yeah I feel like I don't like playing lead roles because I feel like you have more responsibility
16:06and like yeah as a supporting role you can kind of be a little more like wild and yeah I don't know
16:11like I avoid playing lead roles I haven't done it that much I not where like my character's the name
16:16of the movie yeah only I Tonya have I done that really did you feel that sense of like oh I have
16:22to carry the weight of this story because I am playing Oppenheimer and the movie is Oppenheimer
16:27or did you approach it did it feel just the same as when you've worked with him in other instances
16:33no it did feel different um like he called me up out of the blue because he's never like I
16:39didn't know he's I didn't even know he's writing it so he called me up out of the blue or Emma
16:44Thomas his wife the producer she called me because Chris doesn't have a phone so she put me on to
16:50Chris and he said in his you know very understated British way you know I'm just making this movie
16:56I'm Oppenheimer I'd like to play the part and so it was like wham out of nowhere luckily I was
17:02unemployed at the time I just finished something I wasn't doing anything but I did realize then
17:06that it was different to the other jobs I'd done with him because it was the story of Oppenheimer's
17:11life and then when he eventually gave me the script it was written in the first person which
17:15I'd never read before and so I kind of the script was written in the first person yes like the big
17:21print would be like I'm looking I'm going to put the cup down exactly what's the door exactly which
17:26I'd never read before and so it was very clear that he wanted it to be truly subjective storytelling
17:34you know and that did add to the response the feeling of like oh this is a big big biggie
17:41but then I knew as well that he was going to people it with all these extraordinary actors
17:47and the thing about all those roles is they are all characters of significant consequence you know
17:53they're very consequential characters in in history and in the movie you know we put all these
17:58extraordinary actors in this yeah it was bonkers every time he would tell me oh you know Gary Oldman
18:04is going to pop in and you know we got down to play straws and but I suppose what I'm trying to
18:08say is that you felt very very supported and secure in that you know because you knew share
18:12the burden a little bit completely yeah it felt lovely and I and I think I've developed a short
18:17time with Chris over the years like we do understand each other I think we share a similar kind of
18:22taste or approach to storytelling he's a master he's a master filmmaker. Why do you love working
18:29with him and why do you think he loves working with you? I know you're gonna have to be really
18:34humble and be like I don't know why does he like me I can't understand it. I don't know I mean
18:39take a guess. With Chris you see it's just the work like um he's not interested in anything
18:47else other than the work and the filmmaking and he is incredibly focused and it's incredibly
18:53rigorous. Is it true he wears a suit every day to set? He does wear a very similar attire every day
19:00but you know the reason I think that is I think it makes sense to me is that it's one just you
19:05know as a director you have so many decisions. Greta wore a boiler suit every day she had five
19:10one a different one for every day of the week she was like it's one piece of clothing it's got pockets
19:14so I can put my notebook and pen yeah and she was like it's just I it's a decision I don't have to
19:20make and I have to make a thousand today. You take that off the board yeah and then I was while we
19:23were shooting I went to the Churchill War Museum and saw that he Winston Churchill did the same
19:29thing he had like this boiler suit and I was like Greta. It makes a lot of sense. I mean it makes
19:33total sense. I imagine if she wore something different on set it would freak you out. I mean
19:37if Chris came in in a I don't know Hawaiian shirt it would freak me out I wouldn't be able to
19:43concentrate and I don't think the crew would so I think it's a sensible choice actually. And prepping
19:50for the role what's your prep process like? I mean I don't know about you but I'll take as much as I
19:57can get. With this one it was six months from when we when he called me to when we started shooting
20:04and I would have taken I would have taken another six months if I could have got it.
20:08When he called you and said movie about Oppenheimer were you like gotcha or were you like
20:15I should go read the book. I know nothing about it. I knew kind of very basic you know Wikipedia
20:23level. Now I knew about the Trinity test and I knew about you know the Manhattan project and then
20:30obviously what happened in second in 45 but like I didn't know what happened afterwards or anything
20:37anything like that. So you read a lot to prep what else do you do? Like walk around walk around my
20:45basement talking to myself. Really? Do you record yourself? I do sometimes do you? No only if I'm
20:52doing dialect stuff. Yeah. But I prep like a psychopath as well. It's the only way isn't it?
20:58I'll prep as like as long as I possibly can. I remember I started prepping one role and then
21:03Covid happened and so I ended up prepping the one role for like a year and it was I was like losing
21:08my mind by the end of it. My husband walked in I was like making like weird masks and stuff and I
21:13was like covered in paint he's like what are you doing and I was like I think I've gone too far
21:16with this character. We need this to end I need to get on set. It's the only way though I think
21:22this is the only. Because then I can walk on set and just be like totally free but if I hadn't
21:27prepped like I I'd be so terrified like when I hear some other actors I like look at their
21:32script and there's nothing written on it I'm like I'd be so terrified if I didn't have like a
21:36bazillion notes and thoughts because then I'd be having all those thoughts on set as opposed to
21:42just like. Exactly and I think you know when you get on set time is your most important commodity
21:48as you know and you the last thing you want to be doing is just figuring it out.
21:53You get up every second counts so you want to do all the figuring out before and then park it you
21:59know and Chris is the king of prep and you know I don't know if Greta's the same but he has like
22:07you know crew that he works with forever and HODs that he's worked with forever so they they know
22:13how he works and he preps with those guys for a long long time and so when we come on set it's
22:18like it's it's fast. Go time. Yeah yeah and it's really really fast and he just kind of expects
22:25excellence from everyone. I love that. Yeah which I think all the all the best ones do
22:30and I think everyone gets that it's an unspoken thing right. I thought if I could find a way
22:36to combine physics and New Mexico my life would be perfect.
22:42And tell me about casting your movie then what was your kind of goal or plan to when you were
22:48when you were casting it then what was your? I mean most people's names were written into the
22:53script like I was Barbie Margo and it said Ken Ryan Gosling like everyone you know Greta kind
23:00of manifested the cast she got also everyone was so keen to do it yeah and a lot of people
23:07signed on to do like a long movie where they've got a pretty small role and agents were like why
23:11would we let our client be busy for this long and for this much screen time but you know their
23:16clients would be like no I want to do it I want to work with these people and I want to work with
23:20Greta and we just said from the start like let's make a massive dance party invite everyone and
23:27it was like that on set like it was so fun every day was so fun and we'd be playing music and we
23:34would dance in the morning like the crew cast everyone would like dance in the morning just to
23:38like get everyone you know it was so funny because we're shooting at Leavesden other
23:44films like the Fast 10 or whatever they'd like come over and they're like SWAT gear kind of be
23:50like what's going on in here I'm like it's Barbie land come in and you know people were just like
23:54gravitating towards the set because they and you know our actors everyone would come in on days
23:59that they weren't even working because just to hang out just to hang because it was so fun like
24:03you just wanted to be there with everyone and it was such a good group I think you can kind of feel
24:09that in the movie yeah I do think that that stuff transfers definitely and I think it all trickles
24:16down from the top like whatever yeah mood the director sets yeah it's like it seeps into
24:22everything and Greta just sets like the most like joyful space I mean I can't speak to her other
24:28sets I wasn't on them but I mean she's so joyful and supportive and exciting and just she's just
24:37brilliant and and you can feel that and I don't know I always think of it like it's like when
24:45little kids can sense that their parents are like angry or frustrated even if like a parent's like
24:50I'm fine but they're slamming the dishes you know the kid's gonna be like a little bit like
24:53on edge even if they don't understand they're like you know yeah that happens on a film set
24:58like I've seen that happen where you just feel everyone tensing because you know your director
25:02or someone else in a position of you know importance is is giving that vibe and everyone's
25:08suddenly like a little apprehensive and that's yeah and when we just did not need that yeah vibe
25:14it has to come from the top isn't it maybe that would work for some movies but that wasn't gonna
25:17work yeah I don't enjoy that this is not funny it's it can't go to work like I don't know if
25:23you're if you're gonna be vulnerable I feel like you need a place that's trusting and caring yeah
25:28going back to the prep question yes do you work with an acting coach or a dialect coach or like
25:32movement coach or do any of that kind of stuff uh did you train to be an actor no no didn't
25:38didn't train to be an actor um no kind of started doing theater when I was 20 and then did an awful
25:45lot of theater for for like four years kind of exclusively and then started getting little parts
25:50in movies but I did use a dialect coach on this one because the voice was so specific yeah now
25:58we weren't trying to do an impression I can't really it's not in my wheelhouse to do impressions
26:03I don't have that skill and you know with accents for me it takes it's like going to the gym for
26:10your mouth you know what I mean it takes a long time Australian mouths are like the laziest
26:15literally like a gym workout but you guys do Americans so brilliantly always that's because
26:20we have to like build the muscles well you have to like yeah build the muscles in your mouth to
26:25do an American accent really I just thought it might be closer in in tona or kind of tomba or
26:32I think we also because we grow up watching so many American things Australians like between
26:36our soft palate and hard palate we've got one centimeter of space Americans have three
26:40so just an American mouth just has more space and then because of that like we use our lips more and
26:46our tongues are lazy and so when you're doing an accent you're building that muscle and creating
26:50that space that's why I think it would be harder to be American doing an Australian accent because
26:54I don't know how you have all that space and have all that muscularity in your mouth and suddenly
26:58like make it weak and small I don't know that would be so hard. Aussies always do brilliant
27:04American I think. That's good I love it when I hear that we've got a good rep. They will you
27:08certainly do with me. The Irish have a great rep. Yeah we're not bad at it but what I was trying to
27:13do with Oppenheimer is the very like no one talks like it anymore you know kind of you know that
27:18oldie like um like Orson Welles or like uh Mr Rogers or like uh who else talked like that
27:25anyway you don't hear it. I mean it wasn't even that many decades ago that people really did
27:29speak like that and every time I'm researching an accent I'm like surely it wasn't that you know
27:34exaggerated and you hear a recording you're like no. It was. Wow we really have gotten so lazy.
27:39We really have and I think it's become so kind of homogenized because of this connectivity in
27:44the world people sound quite similar in different parts of the world don't they. Did you have access
27:50to a lot of you know archival footage in order to replicate the mannerisms or physicality of
27:56Oppenheimer? Yes there's a lot of stuff online like just on YouTube. God I love YouTube. Love
28:03a bit of YouTube. It's like my biggest tool. You just disappear down there can't you. The problem
28:09with footage of him was mostly him giving lectures and so it's quite performative you know it wasn't
28:14the real him. Yeah so I used that a little bit but it had to we had to kind of imagine how he would
28:20be you know with his wife or with his colleagues and stuff like that that that we had to kind of
28:25make up. Did you have like a thing that would get you into him? You know what I mean like. Yeah I do
28:33physically. There was loads of pictures of him and he always stood with his hand on his hip.
28:37You see all these pictures because he was such a slight man but he always stood with this very
28:41kind of jaunty angle with his hand on his hip. So I nicked that pretty quick early as a sort of
28:46physical thing and then Chris Nolan kept sending me pictures of David Bowie you know like in this
28:52thin white juke era with the big voluminous trousers. Yeah wow. So we kind of stole that
29:00a little bit. Chances are near zero. Near zero. What do you want with theory alone?
29:10Zero. How about you? What was your process then? Because it's such a difficult
29:15character to it's this kind of 20th century iconic not a real person. Yeah. How did you figure it
29:24out? So weird prepping Barbie as a character because it was like all my usual tools didn't
29:33apply for this character. So I usually like I have the things that I do and I work with an acting
29:40coach and I work with a dialect coach and I work with a movement coach and I read everything and
29:44watch all the things and when it's a real life person or whatever it's the things that you were
29:48talking about if it's a made-up person whatever I rely on animal work a lot and I was you know
29:57maybe like 45 minutes into pretending to be a flamingo or whatever and I was suddenly like
30:03it's not working. The animal isn't helping me with Barbie. I was like oh god what do I don't
30:09know how to find her and I yeah it was like normally I do a couple like I have a couple
30:14things I normally do. Okay. So I make up childhood memories so I think of like you know say half a
30:20dozen core childhood memories and that helps me explain why they do the things they do in the
30:26script so like you know this is the first time they were extremely humiliated in a public setting
30:31or this is the first time they felt betrayed or like whatever and but I couldn't do that for her
30:36because she just was invented out of the vacuum and lived in a you know like so all the things I
30:42normally did didn't work. The animal work didn't work. Childhood memories didn't work. Even the
30:48accent wasn't something to cling on to. Normally I'm like what accent we're doing so they grew up
30:52there and what time and even that it was like no I should be from nowhere but kind of general but
30:58you know you know so I was really struggling. It was it was like she was so smooth and shiny I had
31:06like nothing to grab on to and I was like I don't know where you are even though she was written
31:10beautifully in the script. Anyways I went to Greta and I was like I like help me I don't know
31:15where to start with this character and I was like it's just okay what are you scared of and I was
31:19like I don't want her to seem dumb and ditzy but she's also not meant to know anything. She's meant
31:26to be completely naive and ignorant and Greta found this episode on this American Life podcast
31:34where it was a woman who doesn't or can't introspect like doesn't have the voice in her
31:39head. That's like constantly narrating life the way we all do and so that was like an instance
31:45where I was like oh so she doesn't have that voice and this woman's like you know got a PhD and is
31:51extremely smart but just doesn't have that internal monologue. Is she happy? Yeah totally. Is she
31:56happier do you think? God I wondered about that you know when the interview was asking her like
32:01so if you're like looking out a window she's like I'm just looking out a window she's like it didn't
32:07even occur to me that it didn't introspect until one day I suddenly realized as a growing woman
32:14that my parents were one day gonna die and she was like inconsolable you know thinking that and
32:20her boyfriend was like what's wrong she's like my parents are gonna die one day and he was like
32:24had you not thought about that before? She was like no she kind of thinks exactly what's in front
32:29of her like a spotlight to what exactly is in front of her at the time. Yeah it was really
32:34interesting so things like that I was like wow and then Greta's like you know references for
32:38okay I want the cadence of your speech to be like we did this thing called movie church so every
32:43Sunday morning we would invite all the cast and crew whoever wanted to come to the Notting Hill
32:48Electric which is such a good cinema and watch a movie that was somehow related to Barbie. Like
32:54what for example? So like for example we'd watch His Girl Friday because Greta would be like I want
33:00all the Barbies at the dance party to have that rhythm like when they speak like it should be like
33:06and it's funny sometimes she I think she uses this to find the comedy in scenes too she
33:12uh doesn't look at the monitor like she closes her eyes she just listens to a scene yeah she's
33:17really tuned into like the rhythm which is really interesting but then there might be a reference
33:22like we'd watch The Red Shoes because we're coming up with a lot for the camera like the color chart
33:27you know the IB tech we called it techno Barbie because we wanted to look like that kind of like
33:31really poppy saturated 50s soundstage musical or we'd watch 2001 Space Odyssey because there's a
33:38reference gosh we watched so many movies. Oh nice thing to do. It was so it was the best it was so fun
33:50coming up with the character was weirdly difficult and you wouldn't I wouldn't think playing
33:56Barbie would be difficult but then I realized I had nothing to grab onto and it did take me a
34:01second but I did know and it was evident in the script that I wanted there to be an evolution
34:04between how she is at the beginning and who she is at the end and at the beginning she is a doll
34:11and she doesn't introspect and she's never experienced something like shame and she's
34:15never experienced you know there's so many things she hasn't ever experienced and so she's certain
34:20she says everything with absolute certainty and she moves with absolute certainty she's wide and
34:25open to the world because why wouldn't you be there's nothing bad there's no pain there's
34:29nothing that you know she can say happily to Ken like you can go now I don't want you here
34:34like I want to see my friends it's my house not yours right like and it can be like that and then
34:39towards the middle it starts getting shaky and wobbly and yeah fragile and vulnerable and by the
34:45end she is human she's become human before she's even realized to ask for that and so we did a
34:52couple things you know wigs got smaller less hair more realistic um costumes got less structure
35:00geometric patterns or dots or whatever turned into like florals or pastels less certain colors less
35:06just less certainty really yeah mirror like what that evolution of life would vary subtly subliminally
35:14yeah by the end I wanted people to kind of weirdly be thinking like oh I feel like I'm
35:18just watching Margot weirdly as opposed to like a character I thought I saw at the beginning yeah
35:24so I don't know if it had that effect but that's what we were trying to accomplish and
35:29um and then weirdly I was kind of playing my mom a little bit really yeah because my mom is so
35:40pure like she's so I don't know maybe you'll meet her one day it'll make sense but it was funny one
35:47day on I did was I was like a little bit conscious that I was doing that but one day on set my mom was
35:52visiting and Greta like turned to me she's like oh my god you're playing your mom aren't you and I
35:57was like yeah a little bit yeah and what does she think of the movie she loved it yeah she
36:03do you know what though afterwards I was like um did you like that did you like that line where Ruth
36:09says us mothers stand still so that our daughters can see how far they've gone I was like did that
36:16make you cry and she was like no and I was like oh really she's like I thought it was a very well
36:22written line though I was like oh I'm so so angry that didn't mean what did your parents think of
36:28Oppenheimer oh do they like praise you or try to keep you down to earth and like do that thing that
36:33your family does where they're like keeping your feet on the ground they they are very proud yeah
36:40uh by it all um I really wanted them to see it you know and like with an audience in the
36:48in the cinema I think they saw it in Paris and uh yeah they're a little it's a little uh
36:55the movie's a little overwhelming you know uh I saw it no I was in a cinema and it was a really
37:01hot day in London and the AC stopped working oh no sorry oh no it was actually it was almost
37:08like we're having a 4d experience it was like Chris designed it this is like literally like
37:12getting hotter and hotter and they're building the bomb and by the time the bomb was going off
37:16I was like literally dripping with sweat with everyone else in here it was so hot and excellent
37:23I'm so proud so proud of what you have accomplished
37:28We should talk about the uh costumes so you're clearly still not sick of pink
37:35no I'm not I'm not done with pink yet yeah the costumes were incredible I mean pink it's you just
37:42can't have a Barbie movie without obviously pink and everyone really got on board with that like
37:49I'd make a um on Wednesdays we went pink day do you know that reference from Mean Girls
37:55I had forgotten that reference on Wednesdays they were pink and so if you didn't wear pink on set
38:00you got a fine and then I'd donate it to charity and honestly people leaned in like I was like you
38:05can wear pink socks that's enough and people like no I'm happy like you know it's always like the
38:10guys I feel like that are like oh finally finally I have permission to to wear pink and get dressed
38:16up every Wednesday every Wednesday how long did you shoot for quite a long time
38:22every Wednesday how long did you shoot for quite a long time okay how many days was it in the end
38:27it's a lot of I mean it's at least five months it's a lot of pink additions to I have so much
38:32pink in my wardrobe now I wasn't really a pink girl before but you know leaning into it but the
38:37costumes were amazing and there were so many like Jacqueline Duran who Greg had worked with before
38:43is extraordinary and her references it you know there was meant to be a bit of an evolution
38:47through the decades as well like starting in the 50s when Barbie was created and then
38:52it kind of morphed into 60s and 70s 80s by the time we're on the boardwalk we're wearing like
38:56neon kind of like 80s 90s and then gets a bit early noughties and in the modern day so yeah
39:01it was really it was clever and it was fun and everyone would just squeal every day we'd get to
39:07set and see what each other are wearing and be like you look amazing and like I said the guys
39:12I think the guys like our Kens loved it more than anything they really seemed to uh to get into it
39:18it would get crazier and crazier until like until Ryan would be like I think I need a mink and I
39:23need it you know it just got insane you actually built the sets yeah for real yeah yeah it was
39:30incredible we built that whole cul-de-sac the dream houses are like several stories high
39:37everything's like hand-painted all the backdrops hand-painted we made all of Barbie land in
39:42miniature film the miniatures um yeah everything was very tactile and the transportation sequence
39:47it's all that it's like practical and like a diorama and it's like you know literally people
39:53like holding a rod with a butterfly dangling off it and you know everything was just the handmade
39:59quality of it was so intrinsic to the movie anyway because it's meant to be a toyetic world yeah toys
40:03and you should feel like you could reach in and grab it all but it does make a difference I think
40:08I mean I don't know if the audience knows on a kind of a um conscious level yeah but I
40:15really believe that they experience on a subliminal level that this is happening in camera I agree and
40:22I know Chris Nolan is definitely lives by the same rules of like everything's in camera everything's
40:27practical and I think what CGI can do what VFX can do is like incredible and as a tool
40:33yeah to complement yes work it's amazing but when it's relied on too heavily there's something
40:39about that like infinite yeah quality to like looking at something that's just like could go
40:47on forever where you I don't know I find I get detached I'm kind of like something in me can
40:54sense that it's not real and so I don't really care I don't really care if that thing explodes
40:59or that building falls down because it's not real like you just know when it's not real yeah I think
41:05we do now I think definitely we're kind of a newer to it at this stage and Oppenheimer there was no
41:10set bills it was all real locations every single location was the actual place a lot of it was
41:17like Oppenheimer's house where we shot in New Mexico was actually where he really lived yeah
41:23with Kitty so and myself and Emily were filming in there you know how good's Emily she is I love
41:30her so much I think there's just like she can do anything Emily it's kind of I would watch her in
41:35anything I don't need to hear I don't need a log line I don't need a title if I see she's in it
41:40I'm like I mean I'm gonna love it she's so charming mind-blowing but yeah so you shot in New Mexico
41:46where yeah and I think you can feel the kind of this sounds kind of
41:50like cliche or hokey or something but I feel like you can feel the vibrations in the room I feel like
41:55they transfer to the character I feel like there we then have an extra level of connection or
42:02respect for the environment or for the characters particularly if they're real life characters
42:06that actually live there yeah so yeah and we shot in Oppenheimer's office in Princeton which was
42:11right next to Einstein's office in the real location and there was many of those instances
42:17where you feel you kind of you know it's goose it's goosebumps you know like I'm not a superstitious
42:24person or anything like but I know you feel the vibe you feel it yeah Chris wanted that and for
42:29example the last sequence in the movie you know the well the flashback isn't forwards to it but
42:34you know the whole big hearing at the end that was in this horrible shitty little bureaucratic
42:40tiny room somewhere outside of LA and we were all and it was really hot we were all of us stuffed
42:47into this room this huge IMAX camera you know we could have easily built that in a big stage and
42:52pulled away the walls Chris wanted it to feel like claustrophobic yeah you know sort of awful
43:00feeling that you would have had in one of those rooms and they deliberately wanted to put him in
43:04a room like that to make him feel like he was worthless and that it was kind of meaningless and
43:08to demean him and it worked. Can I ask something off topic? Sure. In my opinion
43:18there are two kinds of people in this world there are the people who are obsessed with
43:22Peaky Blinders and then there's the people who haven't seen Peaky Blinders. Right. I obviously
43:28sit in the first category so can we please talk about Tommy Fook and Shelby for like one minute?
43:35Sure if you like yeah. What was it like? Oh. I mean that was years and years of your life.
43:42Yeah it's like 10 that was also 10 year adventure that we started shooting at the end of 2012.
43:51So crazy. Yeah. I love the song that plays at the very end of the last season
43:57All the Tired Horses. Yeah Lisa O'Neill. I love that song so much it's on my cry playlist like
44:04cry on set. There's a Dylan song and she took it and just like. It's so good. Yeah. She's special.
44:10Is there going to be a spin-off movie? I mean I'm open to the idea. Really? I've always
44:17thought that if there's more story to tell. Of course there's more story to tell. Well we'll
44:22see. I mean. You rode off on a horse like what now? Who knows I guess. Please do it. Please.
44:28Well that's very kind of you to say. I mean I'm totally open to the idea but you know I also do
44:34think it was a kind of perfect six seasons and we managed. You don't want to wreck it. Well it's
44:42kind of sometimes hard to kind of move into the film format and I do like the ambiguity of the
44:47ending but I'm always open to like a great script you know who wouldn't be. So good. Do people just
44:54come up to you all the time? A lot. Yeah a lot. And say Tommy Forkin Shelby. They do. Yeah. Yeah.
45:00And have you lost a lung smoking all those cigarettes? It wasn't great but then of course
45:04they did Oppenheimer and it's like a pipe and a fan. I literally thought that I was watching it.
45:07I was like we need to get him to a doctor. Yeah. He's smoked so many cigarettes. The thing about
45:13those. Herbals. Now they have a warning on the herbals as well. Do they? Yes. You can't win.
45:20Shit. You know. So if people shout at me, Tommy Shelby do, is it inevitable that people. I would
45:26imagine they shout at you but they might go hey Barbie or whatever. Is that what happens? A lot
45:31of high Barbies. Yeah. A lot of. Yeah. It's funny because the waving thing wasn't that big of a
45:39thing and then on set it just got bigger and more ridiculous to the point where it was like
45:43the waving was like so. Something about Barbie like she needs to be so earnest that she's almost
45:49a dork and she's like but you're kind of like no but I still like you and somehow waving really
45:54like really just really just sum that up and so we just kept doing it and doing it and then Greta
46:01really made a meal out of the hi Barbie, hi Barbie, hi Ken, hi Ken, you know that whole bit and then
46:05hi Alan and yeah now people on the street say hi Barbie a lot. Probably. I like it. I'd rather
46:11people be shouting that at me than other things. This is true. I'll take it. For the rest of your
46:16life. The rest of my life. And tell me speaking of that do you do you feel like there's a sequel
46:23in the works? If you're asking me about a peaky movie. You're allowed to ask that because I did ask you
46:27the thing. I, same thing like you, I'm like we put everything into that movie and it's so
46:36good. Yeah. That I'm like oh no and I was so also so proud of the fact
46:43that it wasn't like an original, sorry that it wasn't original, it wasn't a sequel or prequel
46:48or remake which is getting rarer and rarer these days and your movie too is original and that's
46:54amazing that we both got these big theatrical opportunities for original ideas. Yeah. That
46:59part of me almost I'm like oh no if we do a Barbie too then we just I don't know but at the same time
47:04I would do anything to be back on that set and I'll do anything to be on set with Greta again
47:10and Ryan again and playing Barbie again like playing Barbie is the best it's just so joyful so
47:17again if it was. So you're not saying. So it's not not no. Yeah. Not no. Yeah. But also it would
47:23take a lot for it to be a. Yeah to live up to what you guys did. To live up to it. Yeah. Yeah.
47:28Hi Barbie. Hi Barbie. Hi Barbie. Hi Barbie. Hi Barbie. Hi Barbie. Hi Barbie. Hi Barbie. Hi Barbie.
47:35Obviously I've now revealed that I am a big fan of yours not just Peaky Blinders I also love your
47:41Sleep Story on the Calm app. Oh thank you. And just everything you've done really. Well likewise.
47:48I mean it is crazy that after all this this is literally the first time I'm ever meeting you.
47:52Yeah likewise. It's been nice. Very formal setting. I know. I know. Well nice to chat
47:58to you Margot. Hopefully not for the last time. Exactly. Exactly.
48:28you