Join Alex Barth and Brian Hines as they discuss the upcoming beginning of Patriots training camp! Find out who they'll be looking for, from big names like Drake Maye and Javon Baker, to some sleeper picks who might have a shot at the 53-man roster.
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SportsTranscript
00:00:00All right, everyone, welcome in and good morning for those watching live with us to another
00:00:26live edition of the Patriots Beat podcast here on the CLNS Media Network presented by
00:00:32our wonderful friends over at Game Time.
00:00:34It is Brian Hines back as always with Alex Barth to kick off our training camp preview
00:00:40here because we are just over a week until the first Patriots training camp practice
00:00:44next Wednesday.
00:00:46And we are going to start on the offensive side of the football today.
00:00:51Tons of questions, tons of storylines on the offensive side of the ball.
00:00:55That's kind of where most people's attention is going to be when you have the number three
00:00:59overall pick playing quarterback, you have a new offensive coordinator.
00:01:02So we are going to kick off our training camp preview with that offensive side of the ball
00:01:09and just kind of start big picture here.
00:01:11We'll get into position by position, you know, some positional battles to watch throughout
00:01:16camp, some underrated guys to watch.
00:01:18But big picture, it is Alex Van Pelt's show.
00:01:23Fourth offensive coordinator in four years for the Patriots, obviously head coach with
00:01:27Gerard Mayo, but Alex Van Pelt is running this offense.
00:01:30So you know, we saw a little bit of it, what this offense might look like in the spring.
00:01:35We can obviously go back to his time in Cleveland and look at this offense.
00:01:39But what are you kind of just expecting from a big picture standpoint here with Alex Van
00:01:45Pelt and his own real version of his offense for the first time?
00:01:49Because, you know, he had Kevin Stefanski in Cleveland, but it's his show.
00:01:53So what are you kind of expecting, maybe schematically wise and those type of things from Van Pelt
00:01:57now that, you know, this is his thing, he's got his hands all over it.
00:02:01So to me, there's kind of a double edged sword here.
00:02:04First I think, because I hear two things we talk about, because he's going to run that
00:02:11zone West Coast thing that they tried installing a couple years ago under Matt Patricia.
00:02:17And I hear people say, oh, that was such a disaster.
00:02:18Why are they going back to that?
00:02:20You have a guy who's coached it his whole life installing it rather than a guy who's
00:02:24never coached on that side of the ball.
00:02:26So that's the glass half full.
00:02:27Like it is going to bare bones resemble what that offense was, but I expect it to be much
00:02:32more put together.
00:02:34The other thing you hear a lot is do they have the personnel for this?
00:02:38They've been a gap run team for a long time.
00:02:41Part of the reason they failed in 22 is they didn't have the right personnel for that offensive
00:02:45system, which is a fair critique.
00:02:48The thing about the thing there is any time you change systems and the Patriots aren't
00:02:52the first team to ever change offensive systems.
00:02:55Any time you change systems, it takes a year or two to acquire the right personnel to run
00:03:02it.
00:03:03Like you got to kind of put the pieces together as you go now.
00:03:06I think, and you could say, well, isn't that what happened to 22?
00:03:10There were other issues in 22 that went beyond the type of players they were using.
00:03:17Also they, the reality is whatever you think of Mack Jones, he was not a fit for that system.
00:03:22He was never a fit really for that's the way they were running it.
00:03:25He's a fit for the way they run it in San Francisco.
00:03:27He wasn't a fit for the way Patricia wanted to run it.
00:03:29And Drake may projects to be a better fit for the way Alec, not just as a good player,
00:03:34but the way Alex Van Pelt wants to run his offense.
00:03:36So it is going to, I think there are going to be times this year where you're going to
00:03:39be watching it and pull your hair out and say, why are they doing this?
00:03:42But it's not, Patricia was like, you're trying to build on what was a successful season the
00:03:47year before you already had something that worked.
00:03:49This is starting from the ground up.
00:03:51I think you're, you're, you're going to see, and we've talked a lot about this.
00:03:53They couldn't make all of the additions they needed to make in one off season.
00:04:00And they're, you're going to see the holes at times that, you know, we're going to be
00:04:03talking about the draft a lot during this year, just like we did last year, we're just
00:04:06not going to be doing quarterbacks.
00:04:08So I think it, it should go better because there's a much better foundation in place
00:04:14to run this than there was in 2022.
00:04:18But I don't think it's going to be like a, a perfectly smooth transition in year one.
00:04:24It just, there's, there's going to be some bumps because there just wasn't a ton of talent
00:04:30on this offense at key positions and forget getting scheme fits.
00:04:34You just got to get the players out there.
00:04:35Yeah.
00:04:36Yeah.
00:04:38So improve quarterback play.
00:04:39It should look better.
00:04:40And Drake may is a, you know, good fit.
00:04:42He's athletic enough where you can hit those bootlegs.
00:04:45You can move the pocket with them.
00:04:46You can scramble when you need it.
00:04:48And then he has the arms to kind of access all the fields, you know, van Pelt, a lot
00:04:51of it's play action attack vertically down the field.
00:04:54Drake may has the arm and the aggressiveness to do that really.
00:04:57So you hope that makes it look better, but the run game will be interesting because it's
00:05:02that zone, the wide zone that we've heard so much about, and that's something I'd imagine
00:05:08we'll see a lot of it in the summer, just because you have to rep it.
00:05:11Like Ramondre Stevenson told us before the spring practices, like that's something you
00:05:15just have to rep a lot and a lot and a lot, because it's so much like continuity for the
00:05:19offensive line.
00:05:20They have to be on the same page, you know, getting out on those zone blocks.
00:05:24But I also wouldn't be surprised if maybe we get into the regular season and it's a
00:05:29little bit more of that old downhill stuff that we've been accustomed to the last 20
00:05:34years here in new England, because right now personnel still like they have a lot of those
00:05:40big maulers, right?
00:05:41Like city.
00:05:42So Mike and when you David Andrews, even like those are more of those downhill run guys
00:05:46and Cleveland last year, like they had a lot of injuries up front and they even adjusted
00:05:51kind of down the stretch to kind of go away from that zone and a little more downhill.
00:05:55So I still think they're going to major in that kind of zone run game.
00:05:59And again, we'll see a lot of that probably on the practice fields because this is your
00:06:02time.
00:06:03This is when you have to rep it.
00:06:04But, you know, going back to that personnel up front, like I wouldn't be surprised still
00:06:07if we get into the regular season and the splits are maybe a little closer than we expect
00:06:12with more of that, like downhill kind of power run game as well there.
00:06:16Right?
00:06:17Yeah.
00:06:18Yep.
00:06:19All right.
00:06:20Should we get into some positional breakdowns here or any other big kind of overarching
00:06:26takes before we get into that?
00:06:28I think we'd probably get into the positions.
00:06:29All right.
00:06:30So we're going to start with the tight end position, Hunter Henry, obviously leading
00:06:35the way there, the reliable veteran back under contract.
00:06:40They added Austin Hooper in free agency.
00:06:42They drafted Jaheim Bell and they added a few other kind of depth guys, Mitchell Wilcox
00:06:48in free agency, Jacob Warren, a UDFA, LaMichael Pettway was here at the end of last year.
00:06:55So you assume it's Hunter Henry at the top, Austin Hooper and Jaheim Bell are probably
00:07:00the leading candidates behind them.
00:07:02You'd imagine sitting here today, those would be the three on the 53 man roster.
00:07:06But as we saw kind of throughout the spring, like Mitchell Wilcox is pretty involved and
00:07:10Michael Pettway was pretty involved, had a few impressive catches too.
00:07:14So how do you think one of those depth guys could maybe push a Jaheim Bell or an Austin
00:07:20Hooper as we get into camp here, or are you kind of rolling with the Henry Hooper Bell
00:07:26combo up top?
00:07:27I think Bell's his own thing.
00:07:29I think Jaheim Bell is like, he's cause he, we've talked about this.
00:07:35He's going to play in a niche role, right?
00:07:36And this is where we didn't see this time in the spring because they're doing very basic
00:07:40install.
00:07:41They're not going to put any of that gadget stuff in, in the spring, at least not in front
00:07:43of us.
00:07:44Um, they're going to now start to do that in camp.
00:07:48And basically I think what Jaheim Bell has to do, regardless of the other tight ends
00:07:53is prove he is worth keeping on the roster for some of that gadgety stuff and probably
00:07:58special teams.
00:07:59And I think it's him.
00:08:00He's on one of those bubble roster spots.
00:08:02Brian, you've heard me talk about the, the at-large roster spots, right?
00:08:06Where it's, it can be won by a player of any position.
00:08:08You're not talking about positional minimums.
00:08:10The tight end I'm looking at to make a maybe surprise charges, Mitchell Wilcox, the free
00:08:16agent signing from the bangles, big dude, mainly a blocking tight end, but they don't
00:08:20really have that Henry and Hooper aren't blockers.
00:08:23And if they want that guy on their roster, you know, Jacob Warren from Tennessee could
00:08:28fit the bill to the UDFA.
00:08:29But I think Wilcox is the best option.
00:08:32It's just, can he, it's hard to win as a blocking tight end and camp cause you're not doing
00:08:38a ton of contact.
00:08:40But the thing with the new practice squad rules and the elevations and things like that
00:08:43is these, these position battles, this would be a theme today.
00:08:46These position battles can extend beyond camp and into the fall.
00:08:50And I wonder if Wilcox is a guy that becomes a fringe roster player.
00:08:56Like he came on my radar cause of how involved he was in the spring.
00:08:59He's clearly a guy, I think they're going to give a chance.
00:09:01So we'll see how involved he is.
00:09:03And then it's, does he make the roster or does he go to the practice squad, get elevated
00:09:07early and then becomes a guy that, you know, gets added to the roster in a few weeks when
00:09:12they have an injury or two.
00:09:13So if bell again, it's his own, it's not say bell can't make the roster.
00:09:17He very much can.
00:09:18And maybe there's a situation where probably not week one, but by week three or four, they
00:09:22have four tight ends on the roster if you count bells, a tight end.
00:09:26But I think if you're talking about like what people think of as a traditional tight end
00:09:30three as backing up Hunter Henry and Austin Hooper as playing in a tight end, traditional
00:09:36tight end role, Mitchell Wilcox is the most likely tight end three on this team.
00:09:40Yep.
00:09:41So do you think he could push like, say Jaheim Bell, I agree.
00:09:46Like he's kind of in his own category almost, right?
00:09:49Like his role is going to be really unique.
00:09:51Like he's not going to be used like Hunter Henry.
00:09:53He's not going to be like a pure inland guy.
00:09:55He's going to move around a lot.
00:09:57So do you think like a Mitchell Wilcox could push an Austin Hooper?
00:10:01Cause you know, it was a quiet spring for Austin Hooper there.
00:10:06But you know, he's familiar with the offense.
00:10:08He's played under Alex van pelting in Cleveland.
00:10:10So do you think Wilcox could push him or we're looking at maybe the four tight ends or
00:10:16the, you know, they're comfortable.
00:10:17Maybe Wilcox get to the practice squad and they elevate them there.
00:10:21Yeah, probably more of the second, like it wouldn't be the strangest thing in the world,
00:10:25but like I said, Hooper's a van Pelt guy.
00:10:28He is good at what he does and catching the ball.
00:10:31It's it's, they do different things.
00:10:33Yeah, more, more complimentary than supplementary where, all right, we can
00:10:37have Wilcox for when we want a tight end of block, but you know, if you lose
00:10:40Hunter Henry and you don't have Austin Hooper, now you're, I mean, the tight
00:10:46end, now you're back in like 2020 levels where the tight end is just really
00:10:50not gonna be a part of your offense.
00:10:51So unless somebody like Jacob Warren or the Michael Petway emerges as like a
00:10:57real receiving threat, which I don't think is going to happen, I think
00:11:00Hooper's probably safe.
00:11:02It's just, it, it's more Wilcox against like Juju Smith Schuster, Ty
00:11:08Kwon Thornton, Jalen Rager, Isaiah Bolden, Marco Wilson.
00:11:12Um, you know, some of those offensive linemen, Antonio Maffi, maybe if they,
00:11:16you know, are they going to keep a fourth running back Terrell Jennings
00:11:19to Michael Hastie, Kevin Harris.
00:11:21That is more the competition we're talking about where, okay, you have your
00:11:25positional minimums across the board.
00:11:27You're keeping this guy, not because you need this many tight ends, but he gives
00:11:32you something that the guys you have ahead of them on the depth chart.
00:11:34Don't is that worth more than.
00:11:38And I think he'd make it over Rager.
00:11:39There's going to be like, this isn't just one spot.
00:11:41It's seven or eight of these spots, but the way you look at it, it's like he
00:11:44gives us a blocking tight end element.
00:11:45We don't really have that anywhere else versus Jalen Rager gives us a kick
00:11:50return element that is better than anybody else on the roster versus do you
00:11:55want to keep Isaiah Bolden who has some inside outside versatility at the corner
00:11:59position that maybe you don't have from some of the other guys outside of Jonathan
00:12:03Jones is going to be a starter.
00:12:04Like I'm talking about depth, right?
00:12:05So that's what I think you're looking at when it comes to Mitchell Wilcox.
00:12:11Yeah.
00:12:12Not like internal competition at the position for a roster spot.
00:12:16There'll be for playing time, but that might expand to other parts of the
00:12:20roster as you get into like those last guys on the 51, the 52, the 53rd man on
00:12:25the roster, that's where he kind of projects there, but.
00:12:29Uh, last tight end question.
00:12:31Just what are your expectations for Hunter Henry this year?
00:12:35Like leader of that group should be a pretty valuable piece to a guy like
00:12:39Drake may, or even Jacoby preset.
00:12:41Like, are you just kind of expecting Mr.
00:12:43Consistent Hunter Henry as we've seen, or, you know, he's almost 30.
00:12:47Do you think there'd be a little bit of a drop off there?
00:12:50Cause you know, the, the tight ends position, such a big part of Ampel's
00:12:54offense, we saw David Najoku have like a career year last year.
00:12:57So just as the top guy in that room, what are your kind of expectations
00:13:01for Hunter Henry entering this year?
00:13:03I think he'll bounce back.
00:13:04I don't know that he'll quite put up.
00:13:06David and joke who numbers in joke, who just has a level of athleticism
00:13:11that allows him to do some things.
00:13:12I don't think Henry's going to do Henry's a bit, you know, crisper route runner,
00:13:15but he, his three years in new England, his receiving totals
00:13:19have gone down every year.
00:13:20He did bounce back last year.
00:13:21Touchdowns.
00:13:22I actually think his touchdowns might go down cause they're gonna
00:13:24run the ball in the red zone.
00:13:25You know, he, he had six Oh three, his first year here at 50 catches for
00:13:29603 yards and nine touchdowns in 2241 for five Oh nine and two last year.
00:13:3442 for 19 and six.
00:13:37I think he's probably closer to that 2021 year, at least in terms of catches
00:13:41in yards, like 50 and 600 feels about right.
00:13:44Maybe he flirts with 709 touchdowns feels high.
00:13:48Um, I think he's probably closer to four or five.
00:13:51Uh, cause again, I just think they're going to run the ball in the,
00:13:54in the red zone.
00:13:56Um, but I, I think he has, I don't know.
00:13:59It's probably, I don't want to call it a bounce back year.
00:14:02That might be a little, little strong, but like a softer
00:14:04version of a bounce back here.
00:14:06Yep.
00:14:07Yep.
00:14:07I could see that.
00:14:08He's definitely not as explosive as a David Najoku, but he's going
00:14:11to be on the field a lot.
00:14:12He's, he's going to be a reliable passing down a lot of what in
00:14:15joke who did just to, to kind of.
00:14:17Be a little more direct about that.
00:14:18Like a lot of what in joke who did was after the catch and Henry
00:14:21just doesn't have the same.
00:14:23That's where you're looking for a guy like Shaheen bell to maybe make an impact.
00:14:27Can he take over some of those responsibilities that came after the
00:14:29catch because Henry will get himself open and he's got reliable hands.
00:14:32He's a good route runner.
00:14:33He's not going to be as elusive with the ball in his hands as
00:14:36a guy like David and Joe Lewis.
00:14:37Yep.
00:14:39All right.
00:14:39So that is the tight end position.
00:14:41Let's get over to the running back position because they're
00:14:44going to run the ball a lot.
00:14:46As you just said, we already have someone in the chat saying he is worried about
00:14:50the RB three that you got a great duo already, but the running back
00:14:54three could be a big factor.
00:14:55So that's really the main competition entering camp.
00:14:59Who will be that?
00:14:59RB three, Romandre Stevenson, Antonio Gibson locked onto the depth chart.
00:15:04They should be really involved.
00:15:05I think Antonio Gibson could be a really like sneaky ad there.
00:15:09I think he could be really, really involved.
00:15:11But after that, it's Michael hasty.
00:15:15Was busy in the spring, but you know, it's, it's, it's kind
00:15:18of a passing camp in the spring.
00:15:19And that's someone you would, you know, he's kind of has that skill
00:15:22set really involved on special teams.
00:15:24And then you have kind of three of the bigger kind of bowling ballbacks
00:15:28and Kevin Harris and a couple of UDFs and Deshaun Fenwick and Terrell Jennings.
00:15:33They didn't get to show as much in the spring.
00:15:35Cause again, no practice, no pads.
00:15:37You're not, you're not, you know, power running a lot.
00:15:39So maybe this is the time where you get the pads on, you can run the football
00:15:43a little bit more in camp and we start to see a little bit more from
00:15:46Kevin Harris and the UDF phase there.
00:15:48So what are your thoughts with, you know, those three guys and
00:15:52Michael hasty, and are you confident in one of them to take like the RB three
00:15:56spot, or do you think we're looking at maybe a late, like a Zeke Elliott
00:15:59signing, like last year with another veteran free agent?
00:16:01So I don't think you'd see a Zeke Elliott signing because it's, that
00:16:06was for like a RB two and really kind of a spell back role and he
00:16:10was going to get legitimate carries.
00:16:12I don't think you're going to be able to draw a player with that pedigree.
00:16:14Like Antonio Gibson's a good back.
00:16:16Antonio Gibson is a, is a really solid running back.
00:16:19And I don't think you're looking for somebody to supplant him.
00:16:22I think they have plans for him.
00:16:23He's going to play.
00:16:24So a guy like Ezekiel Elliott's probably a bit rich, but maybe
00:16:30somebody like a tear down and I don't have the list of, let me pull up the
00:16:33list of free agent running backs.
00:16:34But, um, I do think it's possible that, that this is, you know, somebody
00:16:40gets signed later on and maybe gets added to the mix because, you know,
00:16:44I like what I saw from Michael Hastie and he plays special team.
00:16:46So that helps.
00:16:47I like to Sean Fenwick if they just want a bowling ball guy to take the
00:16:51third and ones and the goal line carries, like he's certainly capable
00:16:54of that, take some of the more physical carries off from Andre Stevenson's plate.
00:16:59Um, but.
00:17:01There you're not, it's not going to be a super well-rounded role.
00:17:03So I look at guys like, um, you know, if they want another well-rounded guy,
00:17:08Jarek McKinnon, um, Brandon Bolden's apparently a free agent.
00:17:12That would be an interesting one.
00:17:13Like he could certainly that third running back could be that
00:17:16role to Michael Hastie though.
00:17:17He's got like those Brandon Bolden vibes in a way.
00:17:20Yeah.
00:17:20If you want that, like locker room guy though, Bolden's also bigger.
00:17:23He's more of a powerful runner if that's what they want.
00:17:25Um, Joshua Kelly, you know, would make some sense there, you know,
00:17:29Benjamin, like guys like that.
00:17:31Um, but they do like, it is important.
00:17:34It is important because remember there were games last year where
00:17:37they had one healthy running back.
00:17:39Yeah.
00:17:40And even then, like, I remember there was, I don't remember what game it was,
00:17:42but we're monitoring Stevenson was the only healthy running back
00:17:44and he was kind of limping around.
00:17:46And we were talking about in the press box, like who's the emergency back.
00:17:50Is it bro peppers?
00:17:51Is it to Mario Douglas?
00:17:52Like we didn't really know, um, Last year.
00:17:56So I ran the numbers last night.
00:17:57I actually wrote about this this morning on 98, five, the sports of.com.
00:18:00I'm going to have a series throughout the week of the biggest, uh, uh,
00:18:04camp battles coming up this summer.
00:18:06There were only seven teams that consolidated their carries to their
00:18:11top two backs more than the Patriots last year.
00:18:15And Brian, tell me what the majority of these teams have in common.
00:18:18There's one outlier Titans, Steelers, Seahawks, Raiders,
00:18:25Texans, Bengals, Panthers.
00:18:31Titans, Raiders, Steelers.
00:18:34I mean, none of them made the playoffs.
00:18:36Is that what, well, there's that I didn't even consider that there's that,
00:18:40most of them had definitive number one power backs, right?
00:18:43You have Eric Henry.
00:18:45I know people are down on nausea, Harris, like nausea, Harris,
00:18:48and Jacob Warren, right.
00:18:49In Pittsburgh, um, Seattle leaned a lot on, um, uh, Kenneth Walker
00:18:54and like, rightfully so it was good, but they leave a lot on, on Kenneth
00:18:57Walker since now he obviously had Joe Mixon, like you had, and.
00:19:01They didn't really spread the carries out maybe as much as they should.
00:19:04And a lot of those backs were banged up late in the year and that hurt them.
00:19:07You, their patrons are going to run more probably this year than
00:19:11they have the last few years.
00:19:12You need to have somebody.
00:19:14I'm not saying bench or Monterey Stevenson.
00:19:16I'm saying if he, if you can find some lower impact carries, so that's, you
00:19:21know, end of the game in a two score game, or maybe like a second in one
00:19:25where you have another shot and you just need somebody, you know, you're
00:19:28going to take a big hit and you just have somebody else to take that hit
00:19:31that you trust to fall forward.
00:19:33You might get more out of him.
00:19:36If he's carrying the ball, call it 20 times a game.
00:19:38Instead of 25, you may get more out of those 20 carries than the 25 by the
00:19:42end of the year, because he's going to be fresher, but you need other options
00:19:46and it's an injury prone position.
00:19:48So Antonio Gibson will do most of that, but you want to keep him fresh too.
00:19:51And what happens because you're not going to get 17 games
00:19:54from Stevenson and Gibson.
00:19:55You're just, that would be so unlikely horseshoe up the ass kind of thing
00:19:59that neither you're running backs get hurt.
00:20:01Who else is going to be in there to help carry the workload.
00:20:05You don't need an all pro, right?
00:20:07You don't need Zeke.
00:20:09You just need someone you can trust.
00:20:11And I think what we're going to find out in this camp is do they at least think
00:20:16they can trust any of to Michael Hastie, Kevin Harris, Terrell Jennings, to Sean
00:20:20Fenwick, or do they have to go outside the organization to find
00:20:23somebody else for that role?
00:20:24Yep.
00:20:25Yeah.
00:20:26That RB three is the main competition there.
00:20:28And it could again be an external edition, but talking about those splits, how do
00:20:33you envision this backfield shaking up?
00:20:37Because I've seen a lot, like since they signed Antonio Gibson, like, Oh, he's
00:20:41their new third down back, right?
00:20:43Like he has the receiver background, but I think it's going to be like,
00:20:47he'll be more involved in that.
00:20:48And we've talked a lot the last.
00:20:50You know, year plus like rotate drives, like have running backs, rotate drives.
00:20:55Do you think it's going to be that, or how do you think they'll mix
00:20:57and match these guys?
00:20:59I pulled up Cleveland's, uh, snap counts last year.
00:21:02And after Nick Chubb went down, Jerome Ford was their lead guy.
00:21:06He played like 50% of the snaps.
00:21:08And then they had Kareem hunt, who was right around 30% of the snaps.
00:21:11So that could be your remanded Gibson.
00:21:13And then they had Pierre strong old friend who was like 13, 14% of the snaps.
00:21:18So is that like a shakeout that you could see kind of unfolding here?
00:21:23Yeah, that's probably something in there like a 50, 30, 20 kind of thing,
00:21:27maybe 50, 40, 10.
00:21:29Um, I think it's more about people want to know, like, you know, who's
00:21:32going to be the third down back.
00:21:33I think that dynamic leaves with the old coaching staff.
00:21:38I think they're going to be more, whether they have set counts, whether
00:21:43it's just by fatigue, whether it's Stevenson gets two drives for every
00:21:47one of Gibson and they sprinkle in the other guy where they need, whether
00:21:50they're rotating within drives, like.
00:21:53Both Stevenson and Gibson are very well-rounded.
00:21:56They can both run between the tackles.
00:21:58They can both run outside of the tackles.
00:22:00They can both catch the football and the plus side to that.
00:22:03So there's pros and cons to, to both going situationally, which is what
00:22:08they did in the past and just rotationally, which is what I think
00:22:11they're going to do now, when you go situationally, you can sort of tailor
00:22:15certain things towards player skillsets, right?
00:22:18James white was able to focus so much on receiving it.
00:22:21It made him a great player.
00:22:23When you go rotationally rotationally can actually be a little harder
00:22:27to do because you need a guy that's good at everything.
00:22:29And those guys are, can be a little harder to find, but there's a level
00:22:33of predictability that goes away with that.
00:22:37Remember the Sony Michelle year or one of the Sony Michelle years,
00:22:40there was like 80% of the time he was on the field, they were running
00:22:43the football and it became this tell and they could do it because
00:22:45the offensive line ruled, but they don't have that offensive line now.
00:22:49So you lose that element of, okay, this backs in the game.
00:22:53That gives us a good idea of what they're going to do.
00:22:56There's again, there's pros and cons to both, but they're built
00:22:58right now to go rotationally.
00:23:00And I think that makes, that makes a lot of sense.
00:23:03If you know, I honestly don't have a preference.
00:23:05I think you tailor it to your personnel and the personnel they have right now.
00:23:08I think you're wasting.
00:23:11You're, you're wasting the abilities of one of the, of both players.
00:23:14You're wasting abilities of both players.
00:23:16If you're going to just pin them into a single role, I want them both doing a lot.
00:23:21Yep.
00:23:22Yeah.
00:23:22I think, you know, you said it best, like the way that we've got to learn
00:23:27like a traditional third down back, the James whites of the world, like
00:23:30that's probably not how the, how they're going to shake this out anymore.
00:23:33It's going to be more rotation.
00:23:35These guys, they can do a lot of things.
00:23:36So they're going to let them do a lot of things.
00:23:39And again, like Antonio Gibson, I I'm really excited for what his, you know,
00:23:43the speed that he can bring to the backfield, his receiver background, like.
00:23:48Maybe even lining up out wide at times, like not just a traditional running back.
00:23:51I think they can have a good plan for him and can move him around a lot.
00:23:56So those two guys, Gibson or Mondra cemented at the top there.
00:23:59We'll kind of see throughout camp how that RB three spot shakes out.
00:24:03That's the spot to watch in the competition, but let's take a very quick break.
00:24:08We'll hear from our friends over at game time, and then we'll jump back
00:24:11with the big three positions and wide receiver offensive line and quarterback.
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00:25:44All right.
00:25:44Wide receiver, busy position group, 12 guys on the roster
00:25:50right now, and someone asked Ray asked in the chat here,
00:25:54will Alex Van Pelt run two tight end sets?
00:25:57Cleveland was close to the top.
00:26:00I want to say like top seven or eight last year and three wide receiver sets.
00:26:04So these receivers, they have a lot of them
00:26:07and they're going to be on the field a lot.
00:26:08They run a lot of three wide receivers, 11 personnel, so
00:26:13Paul Baker, the two rookies locked on to Mario Douglas, locked onto the roster.
00:26:18Kendrick Bourne, if healthy, we'll see, you know, everything that
00:26:23Bourne and Gerard Mayo have said seems like he's going to be ready
00:26:26by the start of the regular season.
00:26:28We'll see maybe the start of training camp
00:26:30and then K.J.
00:26:31Osborne, the free agent addition, we'd assume would make the roster,
00:26:35but it's a one year deal.
00:26:36So maybe, you know, if a young guy comes out of, you know, a caisson
00:26:40booty or someone emerges, they could make a move there.
00:26:42But that's probably your top five.
00:26:44And then the spot for the six, if there's a spot for a six guy,
00:26:49that that's where this competition really kicks off.
00:26:51And it's caisson booty.
00:26:53It's Jalen Rager. It's Taekwon Thornton.
00:26:56It's Juju Smith Schuster.
00:26:57They have a bunch of guys there.
00:26:59If so, first off, do you just think they'll keep six guys?
00:27:03And if they do, I mean, I think we're in a kind of agreement
00:27:07that Jalen Rager has the upper hand because of the special team's value.
00:27:10But could you see someone besides Jalen Rager
00:27:14grabbing that six spot if they do keep a six wide receiver?
00:27:18I yeah, I think you have to look at it as those guys.
00:27:22And you mentioned the five that we think are locks, right?
00:27:25Born Douglas, the two rookies and Osborne.
00:27:30You got to look at it as the guys outside of that group
00:27:34are competing as if there is a fifth spot, right?
00:27:36And if there isn't, the competition begins, they want to camp.
00:27:40And then whether or not that spot open is to be determined,
00:27:42whether it's the fifth spot because of injury or born's not ready
00:27:45or it's the sixth spot.
00:27:45Like, I think that's what you're looking at.
00:27:47We get it, Brian.
00:27:47You're wearing a Bruins shirt at the.
00:27:51And I'm with you, I think Rager is the inside track because.
00:27:55Born's going to play if he's healthy.
00:27:57He's your best receiver, best established receiver,
00:27:59like the rookies could be better, but he's your best established receiver.
00:28:02Douglas is going to play.
00:28:03He's your best playmaker.
00:28:06The we I think the rookies are going to play Gerard Mayo.
00:28:09Nelly Wolf talked about playing the kids.
00:28:11So you figure those guys are going to play.
00:28:15So odds are, even if it is Juju, who's like an established NFL veteran,
00:28:20there's not a ton of playing time for this.
00:28:23And then Osborne, if he makes him a playwright.
00:28:24So for this fifth or sixth role, there's not a ton of playing time on offense.
00:28:28You're a backup.
00:28:29So you need to be able to contribute in other ways.
00:28:33And we saw it in the spring.
00:28:34Juju Smith Schuster, no special teams, Taekwon Thornton, brief
00:28:39attempt at special teams, and then went back to doing side work
00:28:41during special teams periods.
00:28:43Jalen Rager, great kicker, Turner, and also has some experience at Gunner.
00:28:47I don't know that he's going to win that job, but could he be a backup Gunner?
00:28:51Like you, you gotta use him in a pinch.
00:28:53Yeah, I think he could do that.
00:28:54I feel better about him doing it than, than Juju or Taekwon, right?
00:28:57So I think he has the inside track there.
00:29:00The question is just whether or not that spot exists.
00:29:04The other thing about Juju, and maybe this applies to Taekwon too, you can
00:29:07maybe get them on the practice squad.
00:29:09And between those two, I, I, Juju's not gonna be on the practice squad.
00:29:14Like if he's not on the roster, he's not here.
00:29:15I'd be surprised if he takes a practice squad role.
00:29:17I'd be surprised if he gets to the practice squad, but Thornton and Rager.
00:29:21There is an ongoing competition.
00:29:23I think even if there isn't that six spot, fifth spot, whatever, you know, to
00:29:29get to the practice squad and then who's the first one that gets the call either
00:29:33as an elevation or as a roster signing from the practice squad, no, uh,
00:29:37Keisha on booty hope there.
00:29:40It's just, it's weird.
00:29:41Cause we don't know what his situation is.
00:29:43Right?
00:29:43Yeah.
00:29:44Like we don't, is, is he going to face discipline from the league?
00:29:47Um, things like that.
00:29:49And then he just hasn't been, he's had flashes, but he hasn't been consistent.
00:29:53He could absolutely make the practice squad.
00:29:55I could see that.
00:29:56I just think if he's making the roster, there's bigger issues
00:30:02about the guys in front of them.
00:30:04If that makes sense.
00:30:05It's the consistency.
00:30:07Cause we know we've talked about the high end talent since like he got drafted, he
00:30:11saw it at LSU and you know, the last mini camp practice, he's scoring three
00:30:15touchdowns, looks great with Drake may, but you just don't see it, uh, consistently
00:30:19So honestly, like the best thing for him might be if he gets a two game suspension
00:30:24for the ongoing gambling, uh, you know, investigation, and then they have to kind
00:30:29of keep them around for two weeks.
00:30:30Right.
00:30:31And he's on the roster and then maybe someone gets hurt or something.
00:30:34So, uh, we'll, we'll see what that, but yeah, like if it's going to be a six, if
00:30:39they're going to keep six wide receivers, you'd need like the special team's value
00:30:43is so apparent there because you know, even if it's guy like Juju, like the
00:30:48skillset is so similar to Kendrick Bourne and you know, Jalen Polk, and even a little
00:30:53bit of pop Douglas, like just like that role.
00:30:56So you'd imagine that guy, they'd want him to play special teams and
00:30:59it's really only Jalen Rager.
00:31:01He he's the only one, again, they, they tried Taekwon Thornton.
00:31:05Probably not going to work like as a gunner.
00:31:07Like, can he tackle, can he hold up that way?
00:31:09And then Juju just wasn't doing any special teams work at all.
00:31:12Like that image of him working with Tyler Hughes.
00:31:15Well, 11 other wide receivers are working special teams still kind of stands out.
00:31:20So you'd imagine it's Rager.
00:31:21You saw the kick returnability last year and now, you know, kick returns
00:31:25going to be so important with the new rules.
00:31:27Uh, you'd imagine he has the upper hand there, but that big five, assuming
00:31:32Kendrick Bourne's healthy, like what's your, if they're three wide receivers
00:31:37are on the field, is it born pop?
00:31:39And then one of the rookies, is that like your, your top three going into the season?
00:31:44Yeah.
00:31:45Yeah.
00:31:45You're rotating the rookies and pop Douglas and, and kind of mixing and
00:31:49matching that, but I think your top three are, it depends how they want to do it.
00:31:54Like if you want a true X, then it's Baker with Polk rotating with.
00:31:59Born at the Z and then pop Douglas in the slot.
00:32:03Now, sometimes the van Pelt offense, like there is an X by definition,
00:32:07but it's more of a second Z type.
00:32:09So then you go Polk and born probably on the field together with pop Douglas
00:32:14and you're taking pop off the field in like red zone situations, or just when
00:32:19you want to throw a jump ball, deep ball.
00:32:21And that's where Baker comes in.
00:32:22Is that more true X?
00:32:24Yep.
00:32:25Yeah.
00:32:26So I don't know what are your expectations, you know, beyond
00:32:30playing time for the rookies?
00:32:32What would you say?
00:32:33Like, I think Polk's going to be really involved from the start just
00:32:36because he's probably one of their better run blockers at the position.
00:32:39And that's, you know, big for a team that's going to want to run the ball.
00:32:42So like, I think he's going to be on the field a ton.
00:32:45We'll see with Baker, maybe that's more, as you just said, like kind of a
00:32:49situational type of thing to at least start the year, maybe, you know, he has
00:32:53a really, he earns more playing time going down the, down the line, but just
00:32:57what are your expectations for those two guys kind of for the summer and then
00:33:02even, you know, early in the season there.
00:33:04I mean, for the summer, you, you, you just want to see him show they belong.
00:33:07You know, I, it's going to be tough for him.
00:33:08Cause the patrons have a ton of good corners and they're going to be
00:33:11facing really good competition.
00:33:12That should help, but like, it could be tough going for them early on.
00:33:15They're also not going to get to consistently work with one
00:33:17corner, uh, or with one quarterback.
00:33:20But Baker is situational.
00:33:21Like, I think that's what he'll end up being this season.
00:33:23I, I think you want to see something from, from Jalen Polk.
00:33:27You want to see him have a DeMario Douglas type season.
00:33:30I don't know that he needs to come out and have like the greatest season
00:33:33ever by a rookie wide receiver.
00:33:34But he was a guy they, for lack of a better word, maneuvered
00:33:38to get in the draft, right.
00:33:39They moved down and you know, there's been some reporting that maybe
00:33:42he wasn't their first choice, but they moved down, they let other
00:33:44players go ahead, they ended up with him.
00:33:47Um, you want to see him justify that you want to see him, you know, maybe
00:33:51be better than some of those guys that they passed on and really produce.
00:33:55And I think we, I think it was on the show.
00:33:56We talked about this a couple of weeks ago, right.
00:33:58That I don't need him to be the, you know, ACE coverage dictating.
00:34:04Number one, I don't need him to be Jamar chase.
00:34:06I don't need him to be DK Metcalf.
00:34:08Can he show he can maybe be like a Tyler Lockett type to get, you know,
00:34:13really bold T Higgins, that strong complimentary second receiver.
00:34:18I think that's like a realistic high end hope for him is that,
00:34:23all right, we have him.
00:34:25He's going to be the guy that eats when everybody's focusing on player a, and
00:34:29now you just have to go out in the off season, right.
00:34:31And find out who player a is.
00:34:32So that's like, if he can get there, I'll feel, I'll feel pretty good about it.
00:34:37If he, if he can, and maybe not, he's, he, he won't be there this year
00:34:40cause they don't have player.
00:34:41But if he can at least kind of show he's on that path, I think
00:34:46that would be very encouraging.
00:34:48Yep.
00:34:49And, uh, T Higgins hit in the open market next, next summer, unless
00:34:52or next spring, unless they franchise tag him again, but, or, or, you know,
00:34:56he's saying he won't sign extension.
00:34:58Who knows?
00:34:58Oh yeah.
00:34:59We we've got a long way to go a long way to go.
00:35:03Um, but yeah, that's, uh, pretty much the receiver room.
00:35:08Someone did ask in the chat, how worried are you about pop?
00:35:12I guess pop specifically what staying healthy, like that's the big thing with
00:35:17him, I'd say like he was their best receiver in the spring, but now, you
00:35:21know, two, three concussions last year, like that's a fair thing to be concerned
00:35:27about, is that something, uh, you're worried about there with pop entering
00:35:30year two here?
00:35:31Absolutely.
00:35:32Uh, you know, he, he, he looks like he bulked up, so that's helpful, but he
00:35:37does need to do a better job of protecting himself and he can do some
00:35:40unbelievable things in the open field, making guys miss.
00:35:42And I don't want to see him stop doing that.
00:35:44But I think if there was one weakness in his game, we saw it, both the injuries
00:35:49and, you know, the fumble against Miami, he's got to learn when to kind of give
00:35:52up on a play and, you know, live, live for the next play.
00:35:55I think if he can get.
00:35:57A better concept of that, which is not uncommon for a young player.
00:36:00If he can get a better concept of that and do a better job protecting himself
00:36:04in the open field, he should be in good shape, but he is somebody you look at
00:36:07and kind of say, all right, you know, how, how many games are they going to get
00:36:11from him, the games he plays should be high impact, but how many games are
00:36:14they going to get out of them?
00:36:16Yep.
00:36:17All right.
00:36:17That's the wide receiver position again, big competition with three, four guys for
00:36:23that six spot, and then the top five with Osborne born pop, the two rookies, those
00:36:29guys seem locked into a roster spot.
00:36:32They're bearing, you know, health for Kendrick Bourne, but we'll kind of see
00:36:36how that, the depth, the depth guys in the practice squad guys shake out
00:36:41there throughout the summer.
00:36:43So let's talk some offensive line.
00:36:46The big question mark remains at left tackle.
00:36:50Is it even a competition anymore?
00:36:51Or is it just well core for like, I would say this, it's probably easier,
00:36:56easier for us to start with what is solidified than what isn't true.
00:36:59David Andrews, David Andrews is going to start at center.
00:37:03Mike going, when is going to start somewhere on the right side and on the
00:37:07right side and chooks and city.
00:37:09So we'll start somewhere.
00:37:11And chooks, the core four will start at left tackle.
00:37:15And when I say like, start the season, it seems like they're
00:37:20going to give him a chance.
00:37:23How the big question with him is how does he look there?
00:37:27And the other important question that we can't sleep on as much as we've talked
00:37:30about Brian, all the different permutations of the Patriots starting
00:37:34offensive line, we haven't mentioned that all the backup jobs are wide open
00:37:39to, like, we don't know who any of the backups are and that backup left tackle
00:37:44spot is going to be massive because what a chooks, a core four can't do it.
00:37:48Who is the next guy up?
00:37:49And that's unclear right now.
00:37:52Is it Caden Wallace?
00:37:55They talked after the draft that he might be a left tackle, but it seemed
00:37:59like throughout the spring he was at right.
00:38:00And if they're going to kick Michael and window inside,
00:38:02they may need him at right.
00:38:03So I, I would, I wouldn't feel great if it doesn't work out with the core
00:38:08four moving Wallace to the left side cold.
00:38:11Yeah.
00:38:11Cause if there's a chance of when who's going to play right guard, you
00:38:14need Wallace repping at right tackle.
00:38:16Okay.
00:38:16So he's out of the picture that basically leaves you with where
00:38:20they were last year, minus one or minus two.
00:38:22They don't have Trent Brown who played there last year.
00:38:24They don't have Conor McDermott who played there last year.
00:38:27So you're looking at Calvin Anderson.
00:38:28Who's coming off some pretty significant health stuff and good
00:38:31for him for getting back, but like what kind of shapes he in and
00:38:35vitarian low, who was better at left tackle than right tackle last year,
00:38:40but it still wasn't great.
00:38:42So we'll see what shoots core four.
00:38:43It looks like it left tackle.
00:38:44That is going to be a major question at camp, but don't lose track of the fact
00:38:49that his backup is a pretty important role too, because there's a good chance
00:38:54that they may need to go to that guy.
00:38:57Yeah.
00:38:58So who would be your front runner there right now?
00:39:00Like I would say Calvin Anderson, just, I think probably Anderson.
00:39:05I liked what I saw from him last year.
00:39:06I wish they played him at left more last year in the summer
00:39:08before obviously he got sick, but, um, probably Anderson.
00:39:13Yeah, I'd say he's shown the most elsewhere.
00:39:17Like, like he actually got some good run in Denver before we signed here
00:39:20and he had some impressive moments.
00:39:21And if you want to talk about this zone type of run game, you
00:39:24need some athletic tackles.
00:39:26Like that's his kind of, that's his play style, right?
00:39:29Like he's an athletic guy.
00:39:30He could get out there.
00:39:32Uh, so maybe, you know, that helps him kind of take that, that third, third
00:39:36tackle spot, but, uh, yeah, I said like at the top, like, I don't know if a
00:39:40core four is even a roster battle now because they moved Caden wall.
00:39:45So it looks to the right side and then it's, you know, all these guys
00:39:48that were here last year and it wasn't great now, obviously the situation
00:39:52wasn't, you know, good for Calvin Anderson working through all those,
00:39:56those health issues.
00:39:57So if he's, he seems like good, he seems healthy.
00:40:00So maybe he could make a push, but it looks like.
00:40:03True.
00:40:04It's a core for, he's definitely going to start there in the summer.
00:40:07And if he can hold up or not, that's going to be such a big question
00:40:10mark at the left tackle spot.
00:40:12But, um, yeah, it's city.
00:40:15So it'd be a, you'd imagine left guard based off what we saw in the
00:40:19spring and then David Andrews, and then going to the right side, you know,
00:40:23we heard in the off season, they paid Michael Wenu to play right tackle.
00:40:27And then we get out on the spring practice fields and, you know, two
00:40:29or three sessions in they're moving them to right guard, they're
00:40:32trying to find this best five.
00:40:34So kind of sets up like a roster battle of, you know, like a Nick
00:40:39Leverett versus Caden Wallace.
00:40:41Do who do they feel better?
00:40:42Like, would you rather have Caden Wallace at right tackle and Michael
00:40:45Wenu at right guard or a Nick Leverett at right guard and the
00:40:47Michael Wenu at right tackle.
00:40:49So what's your kind of ideal situation for the right side?
00:40:53And specifically where do you see Mike on when you kind of started in the season?
00:40:57I mean, I think they're at their best to phone when who can play tackle
00:41:02because then it frees you up to get Caden Wallace work on the left
00:41:05side and protect you there.
00:41:06But yeah, it's, it's, it's tough.
00:41:10Cause I don't know that you feel great about any of these cards going in.
00:41:13I I've said this, I think it's something that's going to
00:41:14continue into the regular season.
00:41:15I don't think we're going to get the answers on this to come
00:41:17camp, but, uh, come the end of camp.
00:41:19But if you have to put Michael Wenu inside, I think you got to play
00:41:23Caden Wallace at right tackle.
00:41:25Cause again, I don't, you know, after him, I don't love the options.
00:41:29There's probably Anderson again, Tyrone Wheatley.
00:41:34And I think that's it.
00:41:35So there's they're, they're, they're just very thin all over a tackle.
00:41:42So if you can keep Mike on when to a tackle, it just adds depth at a very
00:41:46important position where you have none.
00:41:48Yeah.
00:41:49Yeah.
00:41:49I think their best five on paper.
00:41:52We'll see if it translates is probably big Mike at right guard and
00:41:56then Caden Wallace at right tackle.
00:41:58It's just probably your five most talented guys.
00:42:01And then they're all playing their natural position or mostly
00:42:03playing their natural position.
00:42:05You know, it's still, it's still a flip.
00:42:07So, uh, we'll see how that shakes out.
00:42:10Like that's
00:42:11kind of a flip.
00:42:11Like he played left in college, but he hasn't played it in the NFL.
00:42:15It's, um, it, that one's tough cause it probably is their best five, but it
00:42:20also really leaves them with very little depth, very little depth.
00:42:24So you wanted the best five blocking.
00:42:26That's not to say, well, we need to make sure we have backup.
00:42:29So we'll make our offensive line worse, but it's, I mean, they really did not.
00:42:34They, they, they put themselves in a tough spot with the offensive line
00:42:37with the way the off season went.
00:42:39So do you think someone like Leighton Robinson, who they picked fourth round
00:42:44fringe top 100 pick, could he make a push here and then maybe you're feeling
00:42:49more comfortable, okay.
00:42:50If he's right guard, we can play Michael window at right tackle.
00:42:53And now we have Caden Wallace to maybe push troops core for he's
00:42:58got to actually rep that left tackle for that to happen.
00:43:00But you know, could Leighton Robinson factor in even not as a starter, but
00:43:04maybe a good depth piece to make you feel a little bit more confident about
00:43:07maybe your interior there and freeing up Mike on window, his versatility.
00:43:11You hope so.
00:43:12I mean, like you said, basically top 100 pick, you take a guard in that spot.
00:43:15You want him to start year one, maybe not week one, but year one.
00:43:18And you want to see he's trending towards that.
00:43:20So if you know, you can have Leighton Robinson and city.
00:43:23So as you're starting guards, that, that makes things a lot easier.
00:43:30Oh, I think you're muted, Brian.
00:43:34Are you muted?
00:43:34Or did I lose sound?
00:43:35I can't hear you.
00:43:37Can you hear me now?
00:43:37Yeah, there you go.
00:43:38Oh, I got something in my mic disconnected.
00:43:40I don't know what happened there.
00:43:41It's like with my camera, the plugs, you got me though.
00:43:45Yeah, I got you.
00:43:46Uh, yeah.
00:43:48Leighton Robinson, like didn't see, he wasn't rotating in with
00:43:51like the top guys in the spring.
00:43:53But again, he's one of those more powerful guys.
00:43:56So maybe that, that flashes more when the pads come on and he
00:43:59can build some momentum there.
00:44:00So, um, but yeah, it's such a big question mark, how it shakes out.
00:44:06Like you said, not only that the top unit, but the backups too.
00:44:09So any other, like those depth guys, we saw Antonio Moffy getting some
00:44:14work at center along with guard.
00:44:18He's probably in the camp where like, you got to do everything just
00:44:21to make a push for this team.
00:44:23Didn't see a lot of Jake Andrews seemed like he was dealing with like a lower
00:44:26leg injury or something throughout the spring, Nick Leverett, they signed in
00:44:30free agency, he was working pretty with the top unit at times that guard
00:44:35and, you know, rotating in back at center.
00:44:37So any of those other depth guys you're kind of watching, I saw some people
00:44:41in the chat talk about Liam Hornadel, the UFL guy they signed late, uh, in
00:44:45the soft season, so any of those other depth guys you're watching that maybe
00:44:49could string some practices together and make you feel a little bit more
00:44:52confident about, about those depth guys.
00:44:55Well, I've seen a lot of people talk about four Nadella's like some savior.
00:44:58I mean, he can, he's not a bad player, but he'll, you know,
00:45:02he'll compete for a guard spot.
00:45:03I don't think he's playing tackle in the NFL.
00:45:05His arms aren't long enough.
00:45:06Um, we'll see, I guess what, what he brings again.
00:45:11I think he's in the mix of guard, but they, they just drafted so many
00:45:16guards last couple of years, Lane Robinson, Antonio Moffitt city.
00:45:19So Jake Andrews is interior that if it goes to a guy, they, they
00:45:23got to pull from the UFL.
00:45:24That's really concerning.
00:45:25Um, and I mean, I guess along the same lines, like Michael Jordan got some
00:45:29run this spring and he's got 29 games of NFL starting experience under his belt.
00:45:34It's a really, really young group, really young group.
00:45:38If you think about it, right.
00:45:39Because let me pull up the, pull up the full group.
00:45:42So I'd make sure I don't miss anybody, but they don't have a ton of NFL
00:45:46experience among their, their guard options outside of, you know, the, the
00:45:51clear cut starters, because Jake Andrews second NFL season four Nadella's
00:45:55are essentially a rookie Michael Jordan.
00:45:58Nick Leverett has started games.
00:45:59Moffy's in his second year.
00:46:00Lane Robinson's a rookie city.
00:46:02So's in his second year, Charles Turner's a rookie, and even Cole
00:46:06strange is going into his third year, but he's missed a ton of time due to injury.
00:46:09So I think Michael Jordan, how many starts does Nick Leverett have?
00:46:12I don't have that number off top of my head.
00:46:13Nick Leverett has 16 starts.
00:46:15Michael Jordan's their most experienced guard, unless you count Michael and
00:46:19when, but whatever he is like Michael Jordan is a top two, most experienced
00:46:23guard, if they feel they need a veteran in the room, don't sleep on him
00:46:27pushing for maybe a depth, a depth spot.
00:46:30All right.
00:46:31Uh, last O-line question I got for ya.
00:46:34Do we see Cole strange at all this season?
00:46:38Yeah.
00:46:38Cause they, they got to see where he's at.
00:46:40They, you don't want them coming into camp next year, cold
00:46:43contract year, all of that.
00:46:44So I think he'll play at some point.
00:46:47You know, I've seen people say, is this the last we've seen
00:46:49of Cole strange and Patriots uniform?
00:46:51I think we'll see him again.
00:46:53Now, do they put him in for a couple of weeks?
00:46:55He doesn't look good and that's it.
00:46:56Like that's very possible.
00:46:58I wouldn't rule that out.
00:46:59I wouldn't rule out this being his last season as a Patriot, but
00:47:02I, they're going to give him a shot.
00:47:04And it could also just be like, again, they don't have a ton at guard.
00:47:07They may need to give him a shot just to see what it looks like.
00:47:10So I think we see him again.
00:47:12I don't know how much, but I do.
00:47:13I don't think he's like done.
00:47:15Yeah.
00:47:16It's tricky because if you had to pick a spot on the offensive line, you're
00:47:23confident in, I guess you would say the interior, right?
00:47:25Like if it's city, David Andrews and
00:47:28center, like get chest centered, like David Andrews were confident in.
00:47:31But if you could see one spot, I guess, performing well in the regular
00:47:36season, like if it's Michael window at right guard, you you're fairly,
00:47:40you're more confident in the interior than the tackle.
00:47:42So, you know, if those three guys are playing well, like how does
00:47:46Cole strange factor in there?
00:47:47Like, are they going to take one of those guys off the field, but maybe
00:47:50it's moving Michael window back outside.
00:47:53Like, we're probably going to have that conversation at some point if
00:47:56the tackles aren't playing well, then Cole strange would come in at that spot.
00:48:00So it'll be interesting.
00:48:01He's obviously going to miss a good amount of time here.
00:48:04It sounds like with that, you know, coming off that knee injury.
00:48:06So he could factor into the equation late in the season.
00:48:11You know, they move, when did they move big Mike outside last year?
00:48:14I like week five, six, I think it was a little later than that.
00:48:19So maybe like that same timeframe.
00:48:21Yeah.
00:48:21This year, if Cole strange is back and healthy, they could move
00:48:25on window back outside, but this is such a, it's annoying.
00:48:29It's still a question mark, especially, you know, the tackle positions,
00:48:32but it'll be a big part of, you know, what to watch during training camp.
00:48:37Scott Peters will have his hands full trying to find that best five and we'll
00:48:41see how that kind of shakes out.
00:48:44And it transitions into the last position, the quarterback spot, because
00:48:48they could impact when we see Drake may, and there's kind of two internal
00:48:53competitions, I would say a quarterback.
00:48:55They need a starter and it's probably going to be Jacoby
00:48:58percent, who was the starter in the spring versus Drake may.
00:49:01And then Joe Milton and Bailey's happy could kind of be in their
00:49:05own competition for a third quarterback on the roster, if they even keep
00:49:08a third quarterback on the roster.
00:49:10So, uh, let's start with, let's start with zappy and Joe Milton, Joe
00:49:16Milton, two obvious different players.
00:49:19Joe Milton's got all the tools.
00:49:21Bailey's happy though, has some starting experience, uh, in the league.
00:49:24What do you want to see from, I guess, both of those guys, um, you know,
00:49:29zappy and a new offense and just Milton in his first, first training camp here.
00:49:33What do you want to see from them and what do they kind of need to do
00:49:36to separate from, from each other?
00:49:38Uh, I think with Milton, you just need to see development.
00:49:41I don't know that he needs to look NFL ready, but you need to see
00:49:43that he's on the right track.
00:49:45Uh, whatever that entails, like that could go a number of different ways,
00:49:49but basically he needs to look better in the 13th practice than
00:49:53he did in the first practice.
00:49:54I think that's, that's the big thing.
00:49:56I don't know his happy.
00:49:58I don't know.
00:49:58And it's not like an insult to him.
00:50:00I just don't know what his place is for where the Patriots are at right now.
00:50:04Jacoby versets your veteran, you know, week one starter leader in the room.
00:50:08Drake may is the future.
00:50:10Joe Milton's the super toolsy physically gifted project player.
00:50:16Zappy is what, like, what, what are you keeping him for?
00:50:20You're not keeping him for his locker and presence.
00:50:22You're not keeping him for his raw physical ability.
00:50:25I mean, he's a solid backup, I guess, if you want him to backup
00:50:28Drake may down the road, but.
00:50:30He's going into year three.
00:50:32So next year he's going to a contract here and you generally
00:50:34don't pay backup quarterbacks.
00:50:36You go and you draft another one.
00:50:37So at most you're keeping him this year as a fourth quarterback
00:50:41to be a backup next year.
00:50:42So I think what you're looking for him is to ball out in the preseason
00:50:45and hopefully pick up some trade value.
00:50:47I think that's what you're looking at from Bailey's happy.
00:50:49Cause there's just, they're moving on.
00:50:50They're moving on.
00:50:51They're reshaping the quarterback room.
00:50:52Mack Jones is out.
00:50:53You would think Zappy would follow him.
00:50:56Uh, it's just, I wonder if they're waiting to see if they can get something.
00:50:59Yeah, just the way they reconstructed this room, you said it best.
00:51:03There's just no role for him going forward, like long-term, even
00:51:07short-term with Jacoby percent here.
00:51:09Like he's not going to be starting games.
00:51:11And if it's not Jacoby, you'd assume that's because Drake may, uh, beats him out.
00:51:15So it's tough to see a role from Zappy.
00:51:18Uh, you know, maybe like early in the spring, you could say like, if they
00:51:22really weren't confident in playing Drake may, like they didn't want to
00:51:25play him at all, rookie year, like, okay, Zappy could be your primary
00:51:28backup for Jacoby percent, but we haven't got that vibe at all
00:51:31with, you know, Drake maze timeline.
00:51:33So it's just tough to see a role there.
00:51:35And Joe Milton, like, yeah, I think you just want to see like.
00:51:39Baby steps moving forward.
00:51:40And probably like consistency would be the big thing with him
00:51:43going back to his college career.
00:51:45Like he can spray some passes.
00:51:47He has the big arm, but it can get away from him a little bit.
00:51:49So if you can see some consistency, uh, there, that would be a good for him.
00:51:54But do you think, do you think they'll keep three quarterbacks or are we talking?
00:51:58I do think they'll keep three.
00:51:59And I actually, I don't know, it's a guarantee that one of Zappy or
00:52:03Milton makes the roster and roster slash practice squad.
00:52:07They may only have two, um, initially and keep a guy on the
00:52:09press squad for the time being.
00:52:10But I wouldn't be surprised if at some point, you know, during final roster
00:52:15cuts, if we, if they go out and they add a Matt corral, we'll
00:52:20Greer or type, um, even, even maybe with, with Joe Milton, maybe Joe
00:52:26Milton makes the team and they keep that guy on the practice squad.
00:52:28Or they add that guy to the team and Joe Milton's on the practice
00:52:30squad, like they may end up with four.
00:52:33But I, I, I wouldn't be surprised if it's something like that.
00:52:37What's Trace McShore McSorley doing these days?
00:52:39Is he still around?
00:52:41Well, he was thrown at the combine.
00:52:42It's funny you asked me that I was listening to the song this
00:52:44morning, cause it's on my college football playlist.
00:52:46Cause I'm getting hyped for the game later.
00:52:47Um, he's free agent.
00:52:50Okay.
00:52:51He's already 28.
00:52:52God, I'm old.
00:52:53We don't need Trace McSorley back here.
00:52:55He'll just hurt another running back.
00:52:57Like he hurt Ty Montgomery last, last summer.
00:53:00It wasn't great.
00:53:00It, I remember getting to the point where I was like, they need a better
00:53:03fourth quarterback and people were looking at me like I was crazy.
00:53:05I was like, no, cause these, these guys, they can't offer.
00:53:08He can't operate the offense.
00:53:09He just can't baseline.
00:53:11It was bad.
00:53:12Who was the guy?
00:53:14Two years ago.
00:53:16Oh, Garrett Gilbert.
00:53:17What's Garrett Gilbert doing?
00:53:20Uh, he's probably, I, I, I, I'd be up for another stint of Garrett Gilbert.
00:53:25Just get him back in here.
00:53:26One of the all time.
00:53:27Great Texas high school quarterbacks.
00:53:29Very true.
00:53:31He is unsigned.
00:53:33I'm sorry.
00:53:33He's going to get into coaching at some point, I would think.
00:53:36Yeah.
00:53:36I don't think he's currently unsigned.
00:53:38I don't think he ever signed after.
00:53:39No, he didn't.
00:53:40Yeah.
00:53:40Yeah.
00:53:40So, um, yeah.
00:53:43I'd say they keep three.
00:53:46I'd imagine they keep three, especially, you know, if one or two of those guys
00:53:49are, are, are rookies, but, uh, still tough time seeing where Bailey's happy
00:53:54falls in that, and we'll kind of see monitor Milton as the summer goes on there.
00:53:59But QB one, it was Jacoby percent throughout the spring.
00:54:03Alex Van Pelt even said like he'd be starting if we had games, but.
00:54:07Uh, Drake may is right behind them.
00:54:10What do you want to see from the rookie Drake may there?
00:54:15If he, do you think he can even unseat Jacoby percent this summer?
00:54:19And what does he have to do in order to do that?
00:54:22I, I don't know what he'd have to do in order to that.
00:54:24He has to really, you know, blow people away.
00:54:26I think the big thing for him is closing the gap.
00:54:29And even if he, even if the coaches know we're not playing this kid week one, he
00:54:34can put pressure on them, the better he plays, like the sooner they got to put
00:54:39him out there.
00:54:39So I think it's all about where he's at relevant to Berset and we'll go from there.
00:54:43And some of it's going to be a field thing.
00:54:44We're going to have to see it in.
00:54:47Uh, you know, real time and, and, and what that actually looks like.
00:54:50But I think for him, it's about just showing how close the gap is.
00:54:53Cause we've talked about this, the locker room is going to play a role here.
00:54:55They want to win.
00:54:56So they want to play with the quarterback who gives them the best chance to win.
00:54:59And, you know, I think there'd be some understanding, Hey, week one, we don't
00:55:02want to give this, put too much on this kid's plate.
00:55:04We're not ready, but like if he tears it up and camp and you're one and
00:55:09three, you're going to start hearing it in locker room.
00:55:11Whereas he's maybe not as great in camp guys don't feel as, you know, strongly
00:55:17about making the quarterback change.
00:55:18So again, I think for him, it's about closing the gap.
00:55:21Yeah.
00:55:22Cause Jacoby Berset, like he had a good spring.
00:55:26He's a good veteran.
00:55:27He's has familiarity in this offense.
00:55:29Like he's not going to implode and just hand the job to Drake may you imagine.
00:55:33So Drake may is going to have to earn it.
00:55:35I still think he, he could like the talent is just off
00:55:38the charts.
00:55:39He had a good spring again.
00:55:41So if he can, you know, keep doing the little things, right.
00:55:44And prove he's ready.
00:55:45Like I'm still not ruling them out starting right away, but then this,
00:55:50when the offensive line conversation comes in, like if they're still trying
00:55:53to figure out the offensive line, do you want to put the 21 year old rookie
00:55:56behind that, then maybe you give them a month or five weeks and like the
00:56:01locker room too, I think, you know, you nailed it there.
00:56:04If they're losing games and Drake mays tearing it up and on practice
00:56:08or in the summer, like they're going to want to, the players are going
00:56:12to want to make that switch.
00:56:12And what does that tell the players?
00:56:14If you're not making that switch, that that's something, you know, we
00:56:17heard with, you know, Patrick Mahomes, his rookie year, like he was tearing
00:56:20it up in practice and all the chiefs players are like, okay, this guy's
00:56:23the real deal, but Alex Smith was still winning 11 games.
00:56:25So they didn't have to do that.
00:56:27But, um, yeah, like I think.
00:56:30Drake may, like if he keeps kind of that trajectory that he was on
00:56:34throughout the spring, like the, the coaches spoke very highly of him.
00:56:37We could see it out there.
00:56:38Like he had a few seven on seven 11 on 11 sessions where like the
00:56:42ball never even hit the ground.
00:56:43He was tearing it up that well.
00:56:44Like I think he could make a push, but some external factors could be
00:56:49kind of going against him where maybe you have to put them on the shelf
00:56:52for a month to six weeks to kind of, kind of start the regular season there.
00:56:56Yeah.
00:56:57Yep.
00:56:58But, uh, I don't know.
00:57:01We, you know, Jacoby, like good veteran, just do you have any expectations
00:57:06for him if he does start the year or throughout the summer here?
00:57:10I mean, I, I think I just want to see at least for camp, like how
00:57:12he's working with Drake may.
00:57:14Right.
00:57:15And let's see if he's part of the development and all that.
00:57:17We know how important Brian Hoyer was to Mack Jones, uh, before his good
00:57:20rookie year and, and, you know, other quarterbacks and other teams too.
00:57:23So I, I, I'm just curious the dynamic between him and may, I
00:57:27don't think there'll be anything problematic there.
00:57:29I'm just interested to see how it plays out.
00:57:31Yep.
00:57:32Yeah.
00:57:32That'll be something, something good to monitor there, but, uh, anything
00:57:37else, quarterbacks, Drake may any other things there'll be, you'll
00:57:42be looking forward with that group.
00:57:44I think that's, that's probably it.
00:57:45I I'll add this though, since we're not going to do a separate special
00:57:50teams preview, or I generally break up kickers, offense, punters, defense.
00:57:56Kicker battle.
00:57:57Kicker battle.
00:57:58And I'll ask you the question again, Brian, that I've been asking,
00:58:01how do you feel a week out?
00:58:03Is the Patriots week one kicker currently on the roster?
00:58:08I'm going, no, I don't think it is.
00:58:10I'm still going.
00:58:11No.
00:58:11And you know what?
00:58:11He might not be on the roster until final roster cuts.
00:58:15I, I, the more I think about it, I think they're going to
00:58:17give both these guys a chance.
00:58:19And if neither proves it, they're going to do what Titans did last year.
00:58:22And they'll flip a seventh round pick to one of these teams
00:58:24that has two kickers in camp.
00:58:26I think that's, what's going to end up happening.
00:58:28Yeah.
00:58:29Yeah.
00:58:29I mean, nothing we saw from either Chad Ryland or Joey
00:58:32Sly in the spring was like reassuring in any way, really.
00:58:37And I was digging into like the 12, 13 teams last week that has two,
00:58:43even the Packers have three kickers.
00:58:45Like there are some NFL caliber kickers or intriguing rookies.
00:58:50Like, you know, Carolina has Eddie Pinero and Harrison Mivas, who thicker kicker.
00:58:54We talked a lot in draft season.
00:58:56One of those guys is probably going to come available.
00:58:58And then you have the UFL guys who had some impressive seasons in that league.
00:59:02So there are some talented guys out there and there will be plenty of
00:59:07movement late in the, you know, the summer during roster cuts at that spot.
00:59:11So they're going to let these guys earn it.
00:59:13But again, nothing we've saw throughout the spring, it was, you know, raised the
00:59:17confidence level in either of those guys.
00:59:19So if I had a guess, I'd probably say their week one guy isn't
00:59:23on, isn't on the roster right now.
00:59:25Yeah.
00:59:25I'm I'm with you.
00:59:26He's somewhere, but he's not on the Patriots.
00:59:29He's out there.
00:59:29So again, that's if, if you really want to track the Patriots kicker
00:59:33ballot, you got to look at these other teams too, with multiple
00:59:35kickers, cause that's going to be a part of it.
00:59:37Yep.
00:59:38Uh, we'll actually see, we'll see the Panthers.
00:59:42We'll get a, they'll come first preseason game.
00:59:44So we'll see both of those kickers.
00:59:46Uh, I don't think the Eagles, they have Jake Elliott, so they won't have one.
00:59:50Um, I can tell you who's the third preseason game against it's
00:59:54Panthers, Eagles, commanders.
00:59:56I think they have two actually.
00:59:58Uh, they even have one cause they just cut, they had to cut Brandon McManus.
01:00:04Cause all right.
01:00:05So here are the teams with multiple kickers.
01:00:06At least this is as of a week ago.
01:00:08I haven't checked, but, uh, the Jaguars have Cam Little and Riley Patterson.
01:00:12Both potential NFL kick.
01:00:15Patterson is an NFL kicker.
01:00:16Little was a six round pick.
01:00:17He was top drafted kicker this year.
01:00:19So something to watch Rams have Joshua Cardi and Tanner Brown.
01:00:23And that's probably Cardi Tanner.
01:00:25Brown's not, he's really, uh, Vikings.
01:00:28Will Reichert, John Parker, Romo that's Reichert.
01:00:30I don't know about Romo.
01:00:32Titans have Braden Naverson or Narveson.
01:00:35Who is he?
01:00:35Was a good college kicker.
01:00:36He was undrafted.
01:00:37He's a good college kicker and he joins Nick Fulk.
01:00:39Maybe get Nick Fulk back.
01:00:40Maybe Narveson becomes available.
01:00:43Um, Panthers.
01:00:44We talked about Harrison Mivas, Nettie Pinheiro, and the lions have Jake Bates,
01:00:48Michael Badgley, if, if Bates really shows up, Michael Badgley
01:00:53could be an option.
01:00:53And then, uh, I don't know if the name's listed, but the Browns,
01:00:56Cardinals, Colts, Jets, and Steelers all have multiple kickers as well.
01:01:00All right.
01:01:01The commander signed.
01:01:03Rahm is Ahmed.
01:01:05Yeah, I don't know who that is, but they have one kicker.
01:01:08So, uh, yeah, that Panthers first preseason game that could be, make
01:01:12sure you're watching that, that, that kickoff there, that kicker group.
01:01:15So maybe one of them is a future Patriot, but, uh, I believe that will do it.
01:01:21Any last things, offensive preview, any things we didn't touch about
01:01:25underrated guys, anything that we missed?
01:01:29Um, I think that's pretty much it.
01:01:31I'll do it.
01:01:32All right.
01:01:32So that is our offensive training camp preview.
01:01:35We will be back Wednesday to do the defense, probably same time in the
01:01:40morning because Barth is on 98 five.
01:01:43What time this week?
01:01:44Uh, two to six, two to six all week.
01:01:47I'm on Fogarton mass.
01:01:48Yep.
01:01:49Make sure you tune into that.
01:01:50Plenty of training camp talk.
01:01:52I'm sure.
01:01:53Uh, you can also head over to 98 five, the sports hub.com and follow
01:01:57Alex on Twitter at real Alex Barth.
01:01:59He'll have some training camp written coverage over there as well.
01:02:02And you can head over to Pat's pulpit.com for our training camp
01:02:05previews and follow me on Twitter at I am Brian Hein.
01:02:09So thank you all for joining us this morning and we will see you
01:02:12guys again for the defensive training camp preview on Wednesday.
01:02:17All right.
01:02:17Bye.