Peace TV English Interview with Dr. Israr Ahmed - HQ
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00:00As-salāmu ʿalaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuhu. Dr. Israr Ahmed is a world-renowned scholar
00:21and thinker on Islam. He is also a very fine orator, especially in the Urdu language. He
00:28was born in 1932 in Haryana, state of India, in a town called Hisar. Since 1970, Dr. Israr
00:37Ahmed left his medical practice and has since been devoting his life entirely to the study
00:44and teaching of the Holy Qur'an. Dr. Israr Ahmed believes in a totally revolutionary
00:50concept of Islam, and in this he has been greatly influenced by Allama Iqbal, Maulana
00:57Abul Kalam Azad, and Maulana Abul Ala Maududi. In 1972, he founded the Markaz-e-Anjaman Khuddam
01:04al-Qur'an to disseminate and propagate the knowledge of the Holy Qur'an. In 1975,
01:11he founded the Tanzeem-e-Islami for establishing deen through a totally revolutionary process
01:17following the seerah of the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ. On behalf of his well-wishers, the Islamic
01:25Research Foundation, as well as our viewers, it is my pleasure to welcome Dr. Israr Ahmed
01:31to our studio in Mumbai for an interview. Dr. Sahib, what inspired you to leave medical
01:39practice and take up dawah as a full-time profession?
01:44Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim. Actually, I never say that I took the decision of leaving my
01:52medical profession and adopting the whole-time service to Islam and Qur'an. Firstly, at
02:02a very young age, somehow I was possessed by the beauty of Qur'an. I say I was possessed.
02:12So, I started learning Qur'an and then sharing with others whatever I learned. As a student,
02:22of medical college, in the very early years, first and second years of my education, in
02:30the third year of that MBBS course, I had decided consciously that the profession now
02:39will remain secondary with me and my first duty is towards Allah and His deen and His
02:47waqf. So, I became an activist. And I am of the habit that whatever I adopt, I adopt
02:58fully, not partially. So, I became Nazim-e-Ala of Islam-e-Jamaat-e-Turma, Pakistan at a time
03:07when both West and East Pakistan were together. Then after the completion of my education,
03:16because I had already decided that this is going to be secondary with me, I didn't
03:22pursue further education, specialization, etc., post-graduate education. I started practice
03:29and disseminating the teachings of Qur'an and especially the philosophy which Qur'an
03:38calls the Hikmah, the Hikmah of Qur'an. And now this thing increased and increased
03:46and increased. So, that it ate into the time that I was devoting to my practice. Gradually,
03:57gradually, that was knocked out and I was left alone with my service of Qur'an and not
04:07only of Qur'an, but according to the teachings of the Qur'an and according to the demand
04:12of Qur'an for the struggle to establish the Deen of Allah as a total political-socio-economic
04:20system on the earth which belongs to Allah. So, these are two main lines of my life. Reading
04:29Qur'an, understanding Qur'an, pondering over Qur'an and then delivering lessons in Qur'an,
04:36lectures on Qur'an. So, that is one. And the other is to organize a disciplined party
04:45of committed people who devote their lives for an Islamic revolution. You have correctly
04:53used the word revolutionary concept of Deen. So, these are the two parallel lines in my
04:59life. The third one, that is, the medical practice was knocked out. It is now 34 years
05:09that it had gone out of my life. What do you think are the real prerequisites for a profitable
05:18and wiser study of the Qur'an and where would it lead our Ummah? Actually, for understanding
05:24Qur'an, one has to learn Arabic. Not to be a very learned person in Arabic language but
05:35that much Arabic which will enable him to read Qur'an with his own eyes without the
05:39help of any translator or interpreter. So, this is the first prerequisite. Then there
05:47should be a real desire. I want to understand the word of God and a sincere decision that
05:55I will follow Qur'an. I will study Qur'an objectively, not subjectively. Not forcing
06:02upon it any preconceived ideas that I have but to follow Qur'an actually. Learning Qur'an
06:10in this way is on one side of the process. Then you should be aware of the contemporary
06:17thought and the currents of thought that are there in the world today, especially the social
06:23sciences, philosophy, psychology, ethics, then the sociology and economics and political
06:30science and so on. So that the two can be joined together so that we can preach the
06:44word of God and convey the message of God and the wisdom of Qur'an to the educated
06:52elite of our time.
06:54Dr. Saab, if we analyse, the modern system around us tends to be more self-centred and
07:06optional whereas the Islamic system is God-centred and obligatory. Which one is better and how?
07:14Modern man has become self-centred in the sense that he has become a slave to his animal
07:27instincts. And number two, he has concentrated his attention on the world, the material world,
07:35the world of matter. Why Qur'an, the world of God, wants us to be self-centred but the
07:48self, the higher self, the ego, the khudi, the ana, just as the Upanishads, one you know
07:56verse of the Upanishads, translated into English is, man in his ignorance identifies himself
08:06with the material sheets which encompass his real self. So this is the ignorance of man
08:14that he thinks that this is myself, this body and its needs and its pleasures and he just
08:21forgets that his real self is within that. This is actually what the Qur'an has said.
08:29وَلَا تَكُونُوا كَالَّذِينَ نَسُوا اللَّهَ فَانْسَاهُمْ
08:33أَنفُسَهُمْ أُولَٰيكَهُمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ
08:36Don't become like those who forgot Allah. So Allah made them forgetful of their own selves.
08:44Now the self here doesn't mean body and its requirements. Nobody is oblivious of his body
08:53and his requirements but the inner self, the khudi, which according to the Qur'an is the
08:59rooh and the spirit has a direct contact with God. It has come from God and it will return
09:06to God.
09:07إِنَّا لِلَّهِ وَإِنَّا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعُونَ
09:10The next point we would like to have our viewers understand is today worldwide Muslims
09:17are being manipulated and subjugated by the anti-Islamic forces. The question which arises
09:23in a regular layman's mind is, is it a test from Allah or is it a punishment from Allah?
09:32And those who are under such manipulation or subjugation, what can other Muslim brothers
09:38do to help them?
09:40Actually I somewhat differ from what you have said. This subjugation of the Muslims is about
09:49300-400 years long. When Islam and Muslims were washed away from the Iberian Peninsula,
10:00Spain, from then started the colonial flood coming to the whole Muslim world. So actually
10:10subjugation is a long process. Subjugation of the Muslims. At that time they were not
10:18against Islam. Islam as a religion, they never objected to it. And even today they don't
10:26oppose Islam as a religion. Three things go to make religion. Some beliefs, some dogma,
10:35we call aqeedah, then some modes of worship, some rituals and rites, social customs.
10:46So these three things go to make religion. And the West was never against this part of Islam.
10:54And still today it is not against this part of Islam. And when they say, especially when Bush says
11:01that we are not against Islam, we are not waging a war against Islam, they are true. Because they are not
11:08against this concept of Islam. They are ready to embrace it. They can say and say it truthfully
11:16that you Muslims came over to America, United States, you purchased churches and synagogues,
11:22converted them into mosques. Did we object to it? You are saying prayers here, fasting.
11:29Have we ever objected? Rather we invite you to a star party during Ramadan to the White House.
11:37And we issue commemorative stamps on your festivals of Eid-ul-Adha and Eid-ul-Fitr.
11:45So this Islam is not objected to. But the Islam as a political socio-economic system,
11:54in addition to being a religion, it's a system of life comprising all the three aspects of collective life
12:00of human beings. The political, the social, the economic. Now this they cannot tolerate.
12:07They are against it. And they want to crush the arch among the Muslims today,
12:16which is quite prevalent. That they want to establish their own system.
12:21They have their own political system. They have their own economic system.
12:26Interest has to be abolished totally. And gambling has to be abolished totally.
12:33And sovereignty belongs to God and not to people. And there can be made no legislation
12:41which is repugnant to the book of God and the practice of his messenger.
12:47And we have a social system of ours where there is segregation of sexes.
12:53No intermixing, no free intermixing. Then we have the rules of covering the body, etc., etc., etc.
13:00So, we should establish our own system. And this is what the West thinks is the biggest challenge to it.
13:08And they can't tolerate it.
13:11Dr. Sir, in this concept of this politico-social and economic systems you speak,
13:18could you explain to us communism and capitalism in perspectives,
13:24their claims, their reality and the ill effects on our society.
13:30And we as Muslims, how can we overcome them?
13:34Capitalism in itself is not wrong.
13:38What we call sarbhaya kari, to invest your capital in business, industry,
13:46is something which is required so that it comes into circulation.
13:50And it becomes beneficial for the society.
13:54But compounded with the interest in gambling and speculation, etc., etc.,
14:00it becomes a monster. It divides the society between the haves and the have-nots.
14:06A gap, big gap. So, actually that is the evil part of it.
14:12Communism on the other hand was the antithesis to this capitalism.
14:19So that they not only did away with interest and usury,
14:25they did away with the whole concept of personal ownership.
14:31And with the personal ownership they added a political system which was very repressive.
14:38You don't have any right to express yourself.
14:43You don't have any right of association, of forming and founding organizations and parties, etc., etc.
14:51Keep dumb. Work. Get the wages.
14:56You can eat, you can drink and you can be comfortable in your lives.
15:01But this political suppression, there was a revolt against it.
15:07And that is why, and because you know, due to the abolition of personal ownership,
15:15the incentive to work more was gone.
15:19Why should I work more? When if I earn more, it's not going to me.
15:24It will go to the state. I will get the same wage. So why should I work more?
15:29And that is why the economy of the USSR went down and went down and went down.
15:35The wheat growing area of the USSR was much bigger than the wheat growing area of the USA.
15:42But the USA was exporting wheat and the USSR was importing it.
15:48So that was the reason of the fall of the USSR.
15:53Now Islam actually joins together the good points of communism and the good points of capitalism.
16:04Islam allows capitalism. You go and work.
16:08It gives you the incentive to work more.
16:12Because if you earn more, you will own more.
16:15Only if you have passed a certain line, now you have to give the welfare tax, the zakah.
16:22So this becomes socialism.
16:25That now the synthesis of capitalism and socialism will take place in the form of Islam.
16:34And Islamic system, economic system is a must.
16:37Humanity is going towards it because the social justice,
16:42especially the economic justice among people cannot be achieved.
16:46The West has achieved capitalism at the cost of equality.
16:52There is freedom but at the cost of equality.
16:56And communism was, so to say, equality but at the cost of freedom.
17:03So to join together there must be freedom also and equality also.
17:09So this is actually the main theme of the Islamic economic system.
17:15Doctor sahab, how can the existing dichotomy between the modern physical and social sciences on the one hand
17:22and the knowledge revealed by Allah subhana wa ta'ala on the other hand be reconciled?
17:28It needs the establishment of universities in all the Muslim lands and numerous universities
17:41whose central department will be that of Arabic language and Quranic teachings.
17:48But attached to that will be the departments of social sciences and physical sciences.
17:56Now the student who enters, he wants to study economics but he will have to read Arabic and Quran.
18:04That will be imperative for anybody who enters this university.
18:09And then he can study philosophy so that he can compare the philosophical ideas and theories of the world
18:16with what Quran has to give in this field.
18:19So in the same way you have to dive deep into the meanings of Quran and then study this economics also.
18:25So you will be able to understand and appreciate what light Quran throws
18:30and what are the wisdoms behind the abolition of Dima.
18:35What is the wisdom behind the abolition of gambling etc. etc.
18:40So that will be with an intellectual dimension.
18:45You understand. You don't only accept Islam. You understand it.
18:49The hikmah, the wisdom behind these injunctions of Quran become clear to you.
18:54So unless such universities are established in Muslim countries, this dichotomy cannot be removed.
19:03Doctor sir, finally, what would be your message priority wise in the current context for Muslims?
19:12Specially for Muslims in the Indian context.
19:17I think Islam is one throughout the world. There are no two Islams.
19:22Islam of India and Islam of Pakistan and Islam of Turkey and Islam of Bangladesh. No.
19:28Islam is one. So the same two lines which I have adopted.
19:35There is a Hadith which says the Prophet has been reported to have said
19:41Nobody amongst you can be a true believer, a true Momin unless he likes for his brother the same thing which he likes for himself.
19:55So whatever I have chosen for myself, actually I suggest and propose to every other Muslim.
20:03These two things should go side by side. Teaching and propagating the word of God and the message.
20:12And not only message, the wisdom of Quran. The hikmah.
20:16The Prophet taught them not only the book but also the wisdom.
20:23So on the one side this process should go on. On the other side to organize a party, a revolutionary party
20:34to establish the system of social justice that has been given by God.
20:40Because the system given by Allah, the creator of all, only that system can be just.
20:47Otherwise the human beings if they devise a system, it has to be biased.
20:54If a woman is thinking she knows her feelings and her psychology but she cannot appreciate the feelings of the men and their psychology.
21:03So they will devise some system which is pro-women and men will devise a system which is pro-men.
21:10They can't find the point of justice between the two.
21:15Only God who has created the males and females both, He can give the system which is just for men and women.
21:23There are the employers, the capitalists, the owners of the mills and factories.
21:29There is labour. What should be the division of the profits?
21:35How much should go to the labourers? How much should go to the capitalists?
21:39Who will decide it? Capitalists will always think for himself and the labourer has to think about himself.
21:46So Allah, for whom, as the hadith goes to say,
21:52All creatures are like a family to God, to Allah.
21:57Only He can devise what should be the balance between the capital and the labour.
22:02How to share the profits?
22:05In the same way, people who are at the helm of affairs, who are ruling, they want more and more power, more and more power, more and more power.
22:13So that it leads to maybe a totalitarian state or a semi-totalitarian state.
22:21And people want freedom and freedom and freedom and freedom.
22:24So what should be the balance?
22:27This can be given by God only.
22:29So to establish the system of social justice given by Allah through His last messenger and Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam
22:39is the best for the whole of mankind.
22:43So, to do good to the human race as a whole,
22:50we have to establish that system in at least some one sizable country
22:55to be able to show to the world that these are the benefits of this system.
22:59Come and see with your own eyes.
23:01To strive for these two objectives is imperative on every Muslim,
23:07whether every Mumin at least, if not Muslim, a true believer,
23:12whether he is living in India or Pakistan.
23:15Jazakallah Khair, Dr. Israr Ahmed Sahib,
23:19for sharing your insight and wisdom on Islam in the current context with our viewers.
23:25Assalamualaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuhu.
23:28Waalaikumussalam Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuhu.