Germany's far-right AfD party wants no enlargement of the EU, least of all the accession of Ukraine, says Beatrix von Storch, a leading figure of the party. She also called for a halt to German weapon deliveries to Kyiv and an end to the fighting in Ukraine.
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00:00With me now is Beatrix von Storch. She's the deputy leader of the
00:05AFD party group in German Parliament in the Bundestag. You just received a
00:091,000 euro fine for showing disrespect to a transgender MP. You're one of the key faces of the AFD.
00:16Why would you do something like that? I didn't show disrespect. I just
00:21called out a guy's name and his name is legally Markus and I just
00:26called him Markus and this is now no longer accepted and I think this is an unacceptable.
00:33I did not show disregard or anything. I just
00:38was just calling him by his name and his legal name is Markus. He was elected as Markus into the parliament.
00:44We are talking about Markus Ganserer.
00:48Tessa Ganserer.
00:51Tessa Ganserer, like she, he wants to be called but you cannot pick your first name.
00:56Not under our law at the very moment.
00:59So I think it's idiotic to just, you know, pretend that anyone can pick his own pronoun or his
01:06first name or even his gender. So everyone is, you know, very happy to accept like you.
01:12You accept but you wouldn't accept if anybody else
01:16thinks he would be, you know, something else. What he is not. He is a female. He's a male. He's a biological male and
01:26juristical
01:28by law. He's by law a male. So I'm no doubt about it.
01:32We are about to change the law about this so everyone can pick his gender once a year, even kids,
01:37even if the parents do not agree. We think this is crazy.
01:41And this is one of the reasons why people start to vote for us.
01:46This gives us support because people understand that this is just
01:51stupid. So clearly you're rejecting the right of people to choose their gender and that's earned you a 1,000 euro fine.
01:58You also weren't in parliament when Volodymyr Zelensky was there, Ukraine's president.
02:06Isn't that showing disrespect to a leader who's been attacked, whose country is under attack from Russia?
02:13We were afraid that this would be a
02:16show
02:18to ask even for more money and so forth. We have made our position very clear on the war on Ukraine and
02:25we are not neglecting that it is unlawful what the
02:30Russians did to invade another country, very clear, no doubt about it.
02:34But we didn't want to participate, the majority of us, some of our members participated and others not.
02:41Four out of more than 70. Yeah, that's true.
02:45So you don't feel, would you make the same choice again if Zelensky was to speak in parliament?
02:51Didn't you find it disrespectful?
02:53No, we will have a debate about it and then we will then we will find out what will be the
02:59schedule or what will be the issues he will be talking about. It's not that we're not,
03:04we're saying we'll never show up, but we have to debate it in the first hand.
03:09Now one of the key messages from this party conference here in Essen is
03:14Alice Weidel, your re-elected party co-leader,
03:18basically rejecting the idea that Ukraine should join the European Union as a future prospect.
03:26What is your attention behind that and is this the conviction that is shared across the entire party?
03:31Yeah, this is shared in the whole of the party, no doubt about it. Ukraine is not able to join the European Union,
03:38we don't want that.
03:39First, I think the European Union is in trouble and
03:43we are not even able within the European Union as it is now to organize ourselves and to get everything fixed.
03:51So we do not need someone else and to be honest the
03:56Ukrainian economy has not been fit for joining the European Union even before the war.
04:01I think the budget of the Ukraine has been something like 40 billion
04:06and if they would join the European Union, they would
04:09get likely the same amount from the European budget on top.
04:17So they would double their budget by joining the European Union.
04:22That's not possible, that this can work out and they are not fit, they are not
04:28corruptionist, high, high, high and if we would double their budget, their income, I think without the war, let's not think about the war,
04:37that's impossible. So we have a very clear party line about this.
04:41We do not want to enlarge the European Union by no members at the very moment, by no members,
04:46especially not by Ukraine. Ukraine compared with Greece and
04:51Greece compared to Ukraine is a rich, organized
04:55country and we know that we were in deep trouble with Greece as well.
05:00Indeed, you're making it sound like it's an economic question, but really it's a strategic question for the European Union.
05:06Also in how it views Russia and whether Russia is a partner or an
05:12adversary. It sounded a lot more pro-Russian here, more
05:16integrative of Russia. So what would you expect Ukraine to do, to give up some of its territory in order to facilitate
05:24Vladimir Putin coming to the table? What's your expectation towards Ukraine?
05:30Well, we do not want to enlarge the European Union as I just said
05:34when it comes to the topic of the European Union. When it comes to Russia,
05:38we advocate in favor of having diplomatic talks and to stop the fighting.
05:44We know who was the aggressor in the first hand, that was Russia.
05:48But still any war in the world always has ended by peace talks in the very end.
05:54So we think this is a very good moment to start with this. It's not in our hands, by the way.
05:59It's not in our hands in Germany. Our impact, I would say, is close to zero.
06:03To get them together at the table, but it's in our very interest
06:08to have good relations in the end also to Russia. We have got good relations or trade relations
06:15to any other country in the world, not to any other, but to most countries in the world, even though we do not accept the way
06:22they're acting or we do not like their regimes and so forth.
06:27And so I think it's not very intelligent to look to Russia and try to make
06:35you know, attack Russia with words, try to not have
06:39trade with Russia and this. So I think the approach of AFD has always been
06:46it is in our very interest to have good relations to as many countries in the world as possible.
06:54We do not judge about the system of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, for example. We do not judge about other
07:02illegitimate governments in the world, maybe.
07:08And so we think in our interest, it has been and should be to have a good relation to Russia.
07:15Actually, most of what you said is something that would be shared pretty much across the board.
07:18Only something major has happened. Russia has attacked a country and has attacked Ukraine.
07:25So in order to make talks possible, the expectation by Vladimir Putin is that Ukraine gives up some of its territory,
07:34not just Crimea, but including regions that are currently not where there are no Russian troops.
07:41So what in concrete do you expect from Ukraine to give up territory in order to make talks possible?
07:50We expect them to start talking and to stop fighting both sides.
07:55How would you make that happen? How would you get Vladimir Putin to come to the negotiating table without precondition?
08:01I think what we should do as German country, we should stop delivering weapons.
08:07We do not believe in a peacemaking process by delivering more and more weapons.
08:14This is what we do not believe in. We think that's not intelligent.
08:17We don't think that that is supporting the peace process in that area.
08:22There's no peace process. So would you expect Ukraine to surrender, essentially?
08:27We can only do what we can do.
08:29And the only impact we have is in the way we're delivering weapons, for example, support the war to keep it ongoing.
08:38I think the war would have ended if there would not have been so many weapons delivered to Ukraine.
08:44And then we would have peace talks.
08:45Then Russia would have won, essentially, and would have gained Ukrainian territory.
08:49So you are willing to pay that price?
08:51We're willing to have peace and we're not willing to deliver weapons.
08:56OK, let's move on to the European Union.
08:59We've had elections.
09:00The AFD has been gaining, has gained in those elections.
09:04But you don't really have a home faction in the European Parliament to come to.
09:09Also, your top two candidates are under suspicion.
09:12Number one, Mr. Krah, of having been infiltrated, at the very least, by China.
09:19And Mr. Bustron of potentially having taken money from Russia.
09:24Where does that leave you in the European Parliament?
09:26Also having lost support from Marine Le Pen?
09:30Well, that's an ongoing process at the very moment.
09:33As you know, the groups in the parliament are about to be set up.
09:38But still, there's negotiation ongoing also between Marine Le Pen and Orbán
09:44from Fidesz, Hungary and Meloni.
09:49And so the groups are about to be set up.
09:52It's not yet clear who will end up where.
09:55Some Czechs might leave from the Renew group and join the ID group from Marine Le Pen.
10:01So that's still everything's on the table.
10:04And we are just in between those different groups.
10:08And we will see what will be possible in the very end.
10:11We're trying to set up an own group.
10:13Yes, we would have preferred to be in the ID group.
10:18We do see that this at the very moment seems to be difficult.
10:21So we're trying to get something, our own group together.
10:25We're not taking in everybody.
10:28There are clear red lines.
10:31But still, this process has not yet been finished.
10:34Will your top candidate, Maximilian Krah, be part of the AfD group?
10:39No, he will not.
10:39He has been excluded by those who have to take the decisions.
10:44That's in the hand of our elected members to the Brussels parliament.
10:50We have got a delegation leader, René Aust, who is now responsible to set up the group.
10:55And I think they have taken the decision already.
10:59And I do not see that this will be changed.
11:02René Aust was number three on your list.
11:04So what have you personally, as a politician, learned from that very experience?
11:10Because that's been rather bruising for you, hasn't it?
11:12Yes, our own campaign has not been perfect, to put it very polite.
11:19We made mistakes and we had mistakes
11:23by our top candidates, our top candidate.
11:26And I think we are now here on our party convention.
11:30And you can see that the party is growing and getting adult.
11:35We're learning from our mistakes.
11:37It was a mistake to have this candidate in the top position.
11:41But this was accepted now by basically all the members here on the convention.
11:48If we make mistakes, we will learn from the mistakes
11:51and we will not repeat those mistakes.
11:53Now, here at the party conference, your party has been closing ranks,
11:56actually quite excitedly looking ahead to those regional elections
12:00in three eastern states where you are predicted.
12:02You're currently polling, hovering around 30 percentage points.
12:06What is your expectation then?
12:08When is it a success for you?
12:0930 plus, where would that leave you?
12:12Yes, we're heading towards those elections and we're not only heading by 30 percent.
12:17We're heading to be number one in all those eastern states.
12:23And where does that bring us?
12:24Well, we're getting closer to take over responsibility for the country,
12:28maybe first for some regions.
12:31This is what happened to all those other allies in the European Parliament as well.
12:36All those right wing populist parties were now in charge of a government
12:42or close to win their election.
12:45For example, Marine Le Pen.
12:47And I think that's the way AFD is also going.
12:51And we will have the next step on this way in those elections to come.
12:55Do you feel that you're ready to be in regional or national government?
13:00Would you dare a prediction when your own goal is that you would achieve that?
13:05I would say if I look to the government at the very moment,
13:09you know, we have got a
13:12author for books for children as a minister for economy.
13:17Our foreign minister, you know, is not capable of basically anything.
13:22I'm not not not able to make one straight sentence.
13:26So if you look to the personnel of the government, I would say, yes,
13:29we've got better people than that.
13:31Well, that's your personal opinion on the performance of the government.
13:34But when do you feel that your own party is ready and will actually manage
13:38to get into a regional or into the national government?
13:42We will get we will be ready the moment it happens.
13:46Beatrix von Storch, deputy parliamentary group leader of the far right AFD party.
13:51Thank you. Thank you.