Rachel, Lauren and Dave were all lucky enough to be at Taylor Swift concerts over the weekend. They look back at a once in a lifetime experience - or in Dave's case - twice!
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00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:03 Hello, everyone.
00:11 My name is Rachel.
00:12 I work at The Scotsman with Dave and Lauren, who are also here.
00:17 We've had a pretty impressive weekend here in Scotland
00:21 with Taylor Swift bringing her Eros tour to Edinburgh.
00:25 And goodness knows how, because we don't have very good karma,
00:30 all three of us were able to go.
00:33 Dave went twice, which means he's used up all of the luck
00:37 that he's got in his entire life.
00:39 So do expect very sort of comic slapstick things
00:42 to happen to him during this call
00:43 as his luck completely runs out.
00:47 So we are just going to talk about our favorite thing, which
00:51 is Taylor Swift.
00:52 We may as well record every single meeting
00:54 we're all in together, because that's what
00:56 we always talk about anyway.
00:59 So Lauren, first up, how about you?
01:02 You went on Friday night.
01:03 So you actually saw it before us, because I was Saturday,
01:07 and Dave is Saturday, Sunday?
01:09 Saturday, Sunday, yeah.
01:10 What did you think, Lauren?
01:11 First night, opening night?
01:13 You found out very last minute you were going as well, so.
01:16 Yeah, I think I found out--
01:18 I think it was like exactly 24 hours before that I was going
01:22 to see the Aries tour.
01:24 I would've been going down for work anyway.
01:26 And it led to a frantic last minute packing,
01:30 rebooking my train, changing train times.
01:33 And then once I actually got through to Edinburgh,
01:37 I had no idea.
01:40 I just had no thoughts really until the concert started.
01:43 I'd kind of been running in and out when I was there.
01:46 The only thing-- the only time that it really sunk in
01:49 was once actually she started singing.
01:51 And then I had no words.
01:54 I just started crying.
01:55 I immediately started crying.
01:57 She came on stage, and immediately I was just sobbing.
02:04 But yeah, I didn't find it until the last minute,
02:06 so it didn't really--
02:06 it didn't sink in until that moment in time,
02:08 even with Paramore being on.
02:10 In my head, I was like, oh, I've seen Paramore before.
02:12 It didn't even click for me.
02:13 And then I was just totally amazed and shocked.
02:16 I've never been in a crowd that was quite so just nice.
02:20 Everyone there was just so lovely.
02:21 Everyone that was surrounding me was just happy to be there.
02:26 Usually with crowds-- like the last time I was at a stadium,
02:29 and it was a concert, and it was for a certain Taylor's Exes,
02:32 the crowd was just-- they were horrible.
02:34 It wasn't a very fun experience at all.
02:35 And I hadn't expected that going in.
02:38 And I'd spoken to people before the show,
02:40 so I kind of knew that it was going
02:41 to be a completely different vibe altogether.
02:44 Everyone was just so up for anything.
02:46 But still, it was just incredible on every level,
02:50 from her singing, from her performance,
02:52 from her staging, from the people around me.
02:55 It was just almost flawless.
02:57 I thought I was going to cry, because I'm a big crier.
03:05 And sometimes I'll just have her music on
03:07 while I'm working or driving or something,
03:08 and I'll just burst into tears, because one
03:11 of my favorite songs will come on,
03:12 and I'm just not ready for it.
03:14 And I actually didn't--
03:16 I think, like you, I found out quite late I was going.
03:19 And I was in such a state of, like,
03:22 just most of the way through that I didn't cry.
03:26 But I found the next day, I was watching back videos
03:29 that I'd taken, and then I burst into tears.
03:33 Like, I got the moment when she sort of said,
03:35 welcome to the eras, to it.
03:36 I'm watching a video that I had taken when
03:39 I was there in human form.
03:40 But watching my own video, I burst into tears.
03:43 And then I really felt it then.
03:44 It was very unusual to my reaction.
03:48 - Dave, what about you on your both nights?
03:51 - Well, I'm absolutely staggered by your talk
03:53 of not crying instantly.
03:55 I started crying the moment she appeared on stage.
03:56 To the point that psychologically,
03:58 when I go to a gig that big, I've been looking forward to it.
04:00 I, unlike you guys, got my tickets about a year ago.
04:03 So I've been looking forward to this
04:04 for a very, very long time.
04:05 And I never really thought it was going to happen.
04:07 I thought that even at the last minute,
04:09 there was going to come a sign up at Murrayfields
04:10 going, terribly sorry, Taylor can't come.
04:13 That's it, you've basically seen Paramore,
04:15 you can go home now.
04:16 And so up until the moment she was on stage,
04:18 I genuinely didn't believe it was going to happen.
04:20 So both me and my partner, Vicky,
04:23 started crying at the start of it.
04:25 And pretty much continued to sob all the way through it
04:28 for the first night.
04:29 The first night we were high up in the South Stand,
04:31 which looks straight up onto the stage.
04:33 So it was a kind of funny experience.
04:34 I hate stadium gigs.
04:36 And if I ever go to a stadium gig,
04:37 I always stand because I loathe sitting.
04:39 Because usually you're sat next to somebody who's an idiot,
04:41 who talks through the show or videos the show,
04:44 or just wants to chat about their weekend,
04:46 or sings really badly off key right in your ear.
04:48 It wasn't like that at all.
04:49 Everybody sitting around us was absolutely lovely.
04:52 We had a beautiful view of the stage.
04:54 Taylor was that big for the entire concert.
04:57 But you could see all the video,
04:58 you could see the theatricality.
05:00 It looked like the biggest Vegas show there's ever been.
05:03 The biggest Vegas show.
05:04 Go to Las Vegas, spend 500 pounds on a ticket.
05:08 It looked like that.
05:09 It was absolutely incredible.
05:11 The second night on the Sunday, we were right at the front.
05:13 We were feet away from Taylor.
05:16 She made eye contact with me several times,
05:20 which is very exciting, which made me cry harder.
05:22 But funnily enough, I felt that the second night,
05:24 because I kind of knew it was going to happen,
05:27 I didn't actually cry quite so much.
05:29 I was kind of more able to enjoy it
05:31 because I'd kind of seen it before.
05:32 I knew vaguely what was going to happen.
05:34 So I could really enjoy the kind of minutiae of the show
05:37 and just take it all in properly.
05:39 And again, all the people in the standing section,
05:41 I was worried again,
05:42 because I thought, well, those are the seated people.
05:43 Maybe the standing people will be drunk and ballsy.
05:45 But again, like Lauren says, everyone was just lovely.
05:49 From the pub beforehand, to queuing to get into the venue,
05:53 to inside, there were no queues at the bar
05:55 because like you said, Rachel, nobody wanted to get drunk.
05:58 Nobody wanted to go to the toilet.
06:00 So the entire, I had two pints beforehand,
06:02 and that was plenty.
06:03 And I made sure that I stopped drinking
06:05 before Paramore started,
06:07 which meant I could pop out one last time for Taylor.
06:10 So both nights, three and a half hours,
06:11 no toilet visits, no bar visits.
06:13 And it's just, I've seen a lot of stadium gigs,
06:16 almost all of them have been rubbish.
06:17 And that was genuinely, I go to three gigs a week,
06:20 that those were right up there
06:21 were the best gigs I've ever gone in to my life.
06:23 And I didn't expect that.
06:24 Like I knew I was going to love it,
06:25 but not as much as I did.
06:26 - I think the crowd point is really interesting.
06:30 So I mean, we all have obviously written quite a lot
06:34 about "Taylor for the Paper."
06:36 It's how we sort of justify this weekend.
06:40 I think a lot about why Taylor Swift is so popular.
06:44 Obviously she's basically just incredibly talented
06:46 and good at what she does.
06:48 But I think she also encourages in her fans,
06:52 in her audiences, this kind of like unrestrained joy.
06:57 Like you're in a place where you don't have to act cool.
06:59 You don't have to be ashamed of feeling emotional, happy.
07:04 You don't have to be ashamed of being heartbroken.
07:06 You know, she like encourages in her fan base
07:09 this whole, yeah, just being really sort of unrestrained
07:14 about how you feel.
07:15 And I think that's why the crowd is so nice
07:17 is everyone's just so open and welcoming and happy and joyous.
07:22 And I think you don't often get that.
07:24 - Absolutely.
07:26 And also I think part of that
07:27 is the whole getting dressed up thing.
07:28 I was wearing a kilt one night.
07:30 I was wearing a daft red waistcoat, glitter hats,
07:32 the whole works and almost everybody dressed up.
07:35 And that's lovely as well.
07:36 'Cause it's the whole thing that you start the day,
07:38 you know, early in the morning, listening to the Swifts,
07:40 getting your lovely clothes on and going on,
07:42 like admiring everyone's outfits,
07:43 exchanging friendship with each other.
07:45 I think the gig starts way before the actual gig starts.
07:48 And that's not usually the case.
07:49 It's usually all about getting to the gig,
07:51 getting there, seeing the music.
07:52 But yeah, I think that it's a proper 360 degree experience
07:57 from the fans and the fans love each other.
08:00 I saw people, there were people picking up rubbish
08:03 off the pitch at Murrayfields and putting them into bins.
08:05 I mean, it's just lovely.
08:07 It's so, so nice.
08:08 And I've never seen that at a gig before.
08:10 But there's lots of stuff
08:11 that I've never seen at a gig before.
08:13 I mean, nobody pushed, nobody pushed.
08:15 So I was really close to the front
08:17 and I expected that horrible last minute rush
08:20 of usually boozed up guys, just getting to the front.
08:24 They don't care, just straight through.
08:26 Nobody did that.
08:27 Where you were an hour before she came on
08:29 was where you stayed and nobody tried to muscle in.
08:32 And again, never experienced that before at a gig.
08:34 - No, definitely not.
08:36 - You said you were standing a wee bit back
08:39 'cause you're not a fan of crowds.
08:40 Your sister's not a fan of crowds.
08:43 - Well, my sister, she would probably disagree with me
08:45 if she heard this, but she doesn't tend to do the best
08:46 in crowd situations.
08:48 Just like she has a tolerance for it,
08:50 which I totally respect.
08:51 So usually where if I'm going myself
08:53 or if I'm going with friends or something,
08:54 I'm muscling forward.
08:55 I'm going as far forward as I possibly can.
08:57 I don't care about being crushed.
08:59 But I wasn't gonna do that for Taylor Swift,
09:01 A, because I wanted to enjoy myself.
09:02 And sometimes doing that can ruin your experience
09:05 'cause then you just end up feeling totally trapped
09:07 and it's not as fun.
09:08 And also because I was mindful of,
09:11 she might need to get out,
09:11 she might need to take a minute or whatever.
09:13 And she did have to take a minute
09:15 at a couple of points,
09:16 but she got in and out so easily.
09:18 She didn't have to shove and elbow her way
09:20 to get back to me.
09:22 She didn't have to do that.
09:23 She could just pass and say, "Excuse me."
09:25 And where we stood, we still had a great view,
09:28 especially at certain points when she came to the front.
09:32 I had an excellent view,
09:33 but it was just,
09:36 I don't wanna say it was calm because it wasn't calm.
09:38 Everyone was having a great time.
09:39 Everyone was jumping around and screaming along and singing.
09:42 And everyone was quite clearly enjoying themselves,
09:44 but it was just the sense of community that was there
09:48 that no one really wanted to be disruptive, I found.
09:51 I think I saw one person being so unwell
09:54 that they got taken out of the crowd.
09:56 One person.
09:57 Normally when I'm at gigs, it's countless.
09:59 There's so many people who are clearly just,
10:02 they're drunk and they're shoving past you,
10:05 but I just didn't have that experience at all.
10:07 And as you both kind of said,
10:10 just that experience of it really added
10:13 to the overall atmosphere of the night
10:15 because, my God, hearing all those people
10:18 just echoing back the words,
10:20 and it was just something else.
10:23 - Well, that was very well said.
10:26 - I'm gonna make me cry again.
10:26 I'm getting goosebumps.
10:27 I'm getting goosebumps just hearing you say that.
10:29 It's just beginning to come back.
10:30 - Amy, she brought tissues.
10:31 (laughing)
10:32 - That was very nicely onto what our favourite bits were.
10:36 I'll go first.
10:37 I've been thinking a lot about this
10:39 and I will change my mind upwards of 10 times
10:42 after I've said it,
10:43 because all of it was my favourite bit.
10:45 But I think, because obviously the Airstream
10:48 had been going for a while,
10:49 I'd seen a lot of the sets before.
10:52 I'd kind of seen a lot of what it was gonna look like.
10:55 Torture of Poets apartment section.
10:59 What?
10:59 What an era.
11:01 What a performance.
11:02 Theatre.
11:03 And I think when,
11:04 who's afraid of Little Old Me?
11:05 And spoiler alert, if anyone hasn't been.
11:08 Like, it looks like she levitates.
11:10 She's on that like cool Roomba thing
11:12 that just flies around the stage.
11:14 And I just,
11:16 I've heard, you know, at that point,
11:18 two, two and a half hours in,
11:20 to be hitting those notes on a flying Roomba.
11:23 I couldn't take my eyes off it.
11:27 It was like, ugh.
11:29 It was astonishing.
11:31 It was astonishing.
11:32 So I think that moment for me of just,
11:38 was my favourite bit.
11:41 But maybe also when she sings All Too Well,
11:43 because I love that song.
11:44 And I know every word.
11:45 And I sing it with 70,000 people.
11:47 And that was also a great one.
11:49 But Dave, favourite bit on the spot, go for it.
11:52 - I could talk about this for hours,
11:53 but yeah, Torture of Poets society for various reasons.
11:56 You're right, the theatricality of it was brilliant.
11:58 But also because of the slight sniffiness
12:00 from maybe non Taylor Swift fans
12:03 about the Torture of Poets department album,
12:05 which I think I'm gonna say now,
12:08 it's my favourite Taylor Swift album.
12:09 It's overtaken in folklore now.
12:11 It's just risen to the top.
12:13 And I just thought it was absolutely,
12:15 for all the reasons you say,
12:16 but the sound of the crowd singing along to these songs,
12:19 which apparently aren't as good as their other albums,
12:21 the fans massively disagree.
12:23 I mean, Who's Afraid of Little Old Me
12:25 was the biggest kind of continual sing-along.
12:27 There were lots of big lines that were being sung back at her.
12:30 But I thought the loudest continual sing-along was for that.
12:35 And then all the rest of that section just worked brilliantly
12:37 and going into Midnight's as well,
12:39 which isn't my favourite Taylor Swift album,
12:41 but it was my second favourite era
12:42 'cause I thought the ends of it was so incredibly strong.
12:45 And so yeah, definitely, definitely for me,
12:49 those two eras just,
12:52 I could watch those two years every night
12:53 for the rest of my life and never get bored of it.
12:55 I absolutely could, wonderful.
12:58 But also, shout out for Love Story as well,
13:01 because I cry harder at Love Story than at any other song.
13:04 And I've worked out that it is the key change, right?
13:08 She's got a key change in it,
13:09 like some kind of magic key change.
13:11 And when the key change comes, I just start to cry
13:14 when I'm listening to this on record or whatever else.
13:17 So shout out for that,
13:18 'cause that's the song I cry hardest at.
13:19 And I don't really know why.
13:20 - I do that with Fearless, and I don't know why.
13:23 It's something about, you know,
13:26 dancing in the storm in your best dress,
13:27 I'm out, I'm out, I'm down.
13:30 I'm just, I'm gone.
13:31 Lauren, go for it, favourite bit on the spot.
13:34 - If we're going like absolute favourite bit,
13:36 I loved, loved, loved, loved.
13:40 I can do it with a broken heart.
13:41 I just, the theatricality of it all,
13:43 I don't know if that's why it stuck out in my head so much,
13:46 but I think like in terms of the moments
13:48 that I think about the most, it's probably that one.
13:49 In terms of the moments that I cried the most to,
13:51 all too well, but I had like a mini mental breakdown
13:55 during Champagne Problems, and I won't lie.
13:57 And I was obviously, the Friday was the,
13:58 I don't know what it was like at your guys' show,
14:00 but the Friday night was the night
14:02 that she had the three minute long standing ovation
14:04 for that, she like took her earpieces out
14:06 and just stood there and like accepted it.
14:08 But I was sobbing.
14:10 I'm like a sad girl at heart.
14:12 I listen to sad girl music.
14:13 I think like my last two concerts before that
14:15 were like Bleachers and Mitski,
14:17 if that says anything about me, you know?
14:19 And it was just one of those things
14:21 that I just was like completely like overwhelmed
14:25 when Champagne Problems came on.
14:27 And I wouldn't even say that's one
14:29 of my favorite songs of hers.
14:30 I love it, but I wouldn't say it's one of my favorites.
14:32 It's not the one I cried to the most
14:33 if I decide to listen to her.
14:35 But for some reason, it just completely caught me off guard.
14:38 And I was just, my sister was laughing at me
14:40 and I was like, how dare you?
14:41 How dare you?
14:43 But I just, I honestly have no words.
14:48 I think that's the thing I'm struggling with
14:50 is like, I don't know how to talk about it.
14:52 I don't know how to discuss this like rationally
14:54 because I don't think I've really sunk in.
14:57 I don't think I've really processed it yet.
15:00 But yeah, so either of those two.
15:03 - We've all gone Torture Poets
15:05 as one of our top ears for the show.
15:09 I love the album.
15:10 I am one of those fans who adore it.
15:12 I think it's maybe joint second for me with Midnight.
15:15 Folklore is my favorite album.
15:17 When I die and I get cut open,
15:20 folklore will be sitting right in the center of my heart.
15:23 I love it so much.
15:26 - Can I ask you Rachel?
15:27 - I'm gonna encourage you.
15:28 Start explaining, encourage.
15:29 Go for it.
15:31 - I was gonna ask you when it comes to folklore,
15:33 I thought that the merging of the two albums,
15:36 Folklore and Evermore, slightly,
15:38 do you not think it maybe wasn't quite as good
15:43 as it might be?
15:44 I have not seen the tour film
15:44 because I promised myself I would not look
15:46 at a single outfit, film, video or clip actually
15:49 before going to see it.
15:50 But I understand from a friend who went to see it
15:52 in the States that she thinks it suffers quite a bit
15:55 because they lose both the one
15:58 and the last great American dynasty,
16:00 which apparently were two big theatrical high points
16:02 within that and losing that.
16:05 I thought it was a slightly weaker section.
16:07 Not that I didn't love it.
16:08 And like I say, Folklore was one of my favorite albums,
16:10 but I thought it was slightly weaker
16:11 compared to some of the albums that I'm not such a fan of,
16:14 including Reputation.
16:15 I thought Reputation era was absolutely--
16:17 - Reputation was insane.
16:19 - I don't think this was on the list.
16:20 - It's not even on my album list,
16:21 but yeah, that set was incredible.
16:23 I suppose that's really interesting
16:24 because this is not a revelation to anyone.
16:28 Obviously you react very differently to music
16:31 when you're seeing and hearing it live
16:35 and the set pieces than when you're, you know,
16:37 lying on your bed sobbing
16:39 and you have it playing in the background.
16:41 I did go and see the movie when it came out at the cinema.
16:45 Loved it.
16:46 I was sad to lose Last Great American Dynasty.
16:50 I was also sad to lose the orange dress
16:55 that she wore for the Evermore era
16:58 and like all of the stuff that came with it.
17:00 The tolerated she had and she had like a table
17:05 and she was like smashing glasses off the table.
17:07 I mean, it was an incredible set piece, but I don't know.
17:12 If anyone had asked me, which why would they ask?
17:14 Why would she call me and ask?
17:15 I would have said, just make it four hours,
17:17 keep the show exactly the same
17:19 and just add torture poets in.
17:21 But I can understand she had to make cuts to fit it in
17:24 and it works for me.
17:28 It all worked.
17:30 Folklore, I love it so much.
17:32 And I thought the section did work.
17:34 I thought songs that she picked to keep did work.
17:37 Folklore must be a really difficult
17:40 sort of planning operation to make it land on a big stage
17:44 in a big concert because it feels like more
17:48 of a sort of corner of a pub with a guitar
17:51 kind of beautiful soulful moment, but I loved it.
17:55 I loved it.
17:56 I did that thing where I gasped when she started singing,
17:58 even though I knew what she was about to start singing.
18:00 I was like, and it was lovely.
18:03 But yeah, "Midnights" was the ending,
18:07 all the fireworks and the confetti.
18:09 - And it was amazing.
18:11 - I don't, "Karma" is not my favourite song on "Midnights"
18:14 or even in my top half of "Midnights", but it works.
18:16 And I genuinely didn't think that it was gonna work.
18:19 I was going, but "Karma" is gonna finish this.
18:20 And there's so many highs.
18:22 How's "Karma" gonna finish this?
18:23 But it works absolutely brilliantly.
18:24 She knows best, Taylor knows best.
18:26 And "Karma" is a great way to finish the show.
18:28 And really, I know it feels like the end of a party,
18:30 doesn't it, when "Karma" comes up?
18:32 It feels like New Year's Eve or something.
18:34 It's just wonderful, absolutely wonderful.
18:37 - Are we gonna discuss surprise songs?
18:39 - I think we all sort of in our own way
18:43 feel like we got luckiest.
18:45 And I was running the blog for the "Erased" tour on Friday
18:50 and a little bit on Saturday morning
18:51 before Laura and you took over.
18:53 And I wrote several times in the blog
18:55 'cause I was just pretending it was my own little,
18:57 rather than a sort of official thing.
18:59 - You were manifesting.
19:00 - Exactly, I was like, "I want the Bolta,
19:02 "I want the Bolta as my song, I love it.
19:04 "It's a great track of tortured poets.
19:07 "It would be incredible if she sung it.
19:08 "I wanna hear it, I want it to be a surprise song."
19:10 And I said this to my pal when we were going along
19:13 and we were talking about what songs we wanted to hear.
19:15 And when she started playing it,
19:17 it was a real moment for me
19:20 of everything she could have done.
19:21 And so I feel like I won
19:23 'cause she then mashed it with "Get Away Car."
19:25 - Yes.
19:27 - Which was a phenomenal, a phenomenal time to be alive
19:31 and to be there and to be enjoying it.
19:33 But then, Laura, you got incredibly lucky as well.
19:38 - Yeah, we got "Would've, Could've, Should've"
19:40 and "Tis the Damn Season,"
19:42 which, I mean, I just, I have no words.
19:47 I have no words.
19:48 And also we had the hand cramp,
19:49 like when her hand started cramping
19:50 and she was pointing with her guitar
19:52 because someone was having trouble in the crowd.
19:53 And then she's like, her hand just froze.
19:56 So there's a minute where she just,
19:58 which I just feel like speaks to the Scottish weather.
20:00 But yeah, I feel very lucky for having seen both of those.
20:03 And yeah, I just, I, again,
20:06 I struggle to talk about this
20:08 'cause I'm just like, no words.
20:10 But I'm also, I will admit,
20:13 I'm jealous of both of you because "Crazier" and "Exile,"
20:18 those are probably two of my favorite songs
20:21 and you go both, like, you know,
20:23 obviously got to experience both.
20:23 - I know, I got "Crazier."
20:26 I couldn't believe Dave got "Exile."
20:28 Of all the people who didn't deserve it, Dave.
20:31 (laughing)
20:32 - Honestly, I feel very greedy for taking two days.
20:34 So many people have criticized me going,
20:36 you know, someone else could have had that experience.
20:38 But I was like, I was having two different experiences.
20:39 - I remember when you got your tickets.
20:43 I remember, I was literally in the room with you
20:44 when you got your tickets.
20:45 And I was just like,
20:46 and I remember you called, you called your wife
20:49 and you were like, should I do this?
20:51 And you did it.
20:51 And honestly, I wasn't,
20:53 I never managed to get tickets on that same day.
20:54 And I wasn't even mad at you for getting two sets of tickets
20:57 because, you know, you literally had the mindset of,
21:00 you tried for the Friday, you couldn't get them.
21:01 You got the Saturday ones,
21:02 you got kind of rubbish seats.
21:03 And you were like,
21:04 I want to see if I can get better seats for the Sunday.
21:07 And you managed to.
21:08 And honestly, it was just that type of process.
21:10 I can't blame you for doing it
21:11 because I know how big of a Taylor Swift fan you are,
21:14 as you know, can you whip out your Taylor Swift spoon?
21:17 - Yes, I've got my Taylor Swift.
21:20 Very few people have got Taylor Swift's wooden spoons,
21:23 but I have got one.
21:25 (laughing)
21:27 But no, it was great.
21:30 - It's the appearance at every meeting we have as well.
21:32 That's true.
21:33 (laughing)
21:34 - It's like, Taylor Swift's food.
21:36 - It's just lurking somewhere within arm's reach.
21:39 - We're all also wearing our bracelets, aren't we all?
21:41 - Yes.
21:42 - We've got our friendship bracelets, yeah.
21:44 Absolutely.
21:44 - Right, we have-
21:46 - I think we were all very lucky for the surprise songs.
21:48 I thought they were all just absolutely superb.
21:51 I didn't really know "Crazier",
21:52 but it got a massive reaction
21:54 and I don't really know it very well.
21:56 That was the one song that I didn't know any of the words to.
22:00 - I mean this with like little offense,
22:02 but is this a generational thing?
22:03 Like what was your reaction to it though?
22:05 Because like, it was just, when I was growing up,
22:07 that was like, come on, like crazy.
22:10 - I mean, it got a massive reaction.
22:12 Not as much as the opening lines into "Get Away Car",
22:15 which I think was the loudest moment of the Saturday gig.
22:18 Actually, I think the loudest moment of the Sunday gig
22:20 was maybe going into "Exile" as well.
22:22 That was absolutely astonishing.
22:24 And also "Dorothea", shout out for "Dorothea", which was-
22:27 - Oh yeah.
22:28 - Which was really, really, really-
22:29 - I like how Lauren's like,
22:30 "Dave, is it 'cause you're 72 years old
22:32 that you don't know these songs?"
22:33 - No, no, I would never.
22:36 I would never.
22:37 (laughing)
22:38 - I don't mind.
22:39 It's true, it's true.
22:41 - I think it might be, because obviously,
22:42 I was like, I don't even know how old I was
22:44 when Taylor Swift's first love story came out.
22:46 Like what year did that come out again?
22:48 Was it like 2007, 2000?
22:51 - I think it was about 2006, 2005, 2006.
22:54 - Because, yeah, 'cause I was like,
22:56 I was very young when that came out.
22:58 And I've just grown up with her music.
23:01 And maybe I went through a phase in high school
23:02 where I decided I was too cool for it.
23:04 And then I very much realized, "Oh wow, that's boring.
23:06 I don't wanna live my life that way."
23:08 And yeah, and then I got firmly back into Taylor Swift.
23:11 But yeah, she's been pretty much with me
23:14 for almost my entire life, if you consider that.
23:17 So it's just one of those things.
23:19 Especially her earlier stuff,
23:20 I just have such a response to it that I don't know how to-
23:24 It's just one of those things that I,
23:28 which has almost been part of the furniture of my life.
23:30 And then it's like, when things are pushed into your face,
23:32 you just are like, "Oh yeah, that is a thing
23:35 that has been with me."
23:37 And I'm like, "Oh my God."
23:39 But yeah.
23:40 - So why do you think that is?
23:41 Let's move on to sort of the last section.
23:44 Why is Taylor Swift so popular?
23:46 Why could we talk for eight hours about her?
23:49 Why is this the second time today
23:50 that we've all gathered to discuss how much we love her
23:54 and how much we love her concert and her music?
23:57 Why do we think she's so popular?
23:59 Lauren, why is she part of your furniture?
24:03 - As I've said, she's one of those musicians
24:08 that I've kind of grown up with, for me personally.
24:11 I've grown up with her music.
24:12 She's almost been the soundtrack to entire sections
24:15 of my life without me kind of realizing it,
24:17 which I think is the more important part of that statement
24:19 is that I wouldn't have called myself a Taylor Swift fan
24:21 until probably "Folklore" came out,
24:24 yet I'd listened to all of her albums.
24:26 I'd heard so much of her music.
24:28 She was someone that I could definitely sing along
24:30 to the words with without having to think about it.
24:34 But it wasn't until a certain point where it became,
24:37 and I think with the "Folklore" year,
24:39 it kind of exemplifies that a little bit,
24:40 where it was at that right time for me personally,
24:43 emotionally, and then after that,
24:45 I went back and looked at all of her works
24:46 and maybe stuff that people would scoff at.
24:49 I can't even describe the number of times
24:51 that I've had to defend Taylor Swift to my dad
24:53 because he thinks she's overrated.
24:55 I've had so many people say something
24:56 along the same lines to me,
24:57 and it's not that I don't understand
24:58 where they're coming from,
25:00 but I think especially for young women in particular,
25:03 as is a lot of her fan base,
25:06 she's very validating in the way that she discusses subjects,
25:10 the way that she writes her music.
25:12 And it's one of those things is that
25:15 when you're having feelings, especially about boys,
25:18 and especially with young women,
25:19 you often kind of feel like you're being made fun of
25:22 for your interests, for liking X, Y, Z thing.
25:24 And it's totally fine if you're a guy
25:26 and you're really into one thing,
25:28 but for women, or for young girls,
25:30 it was very often when I was the case growing up
25:32 that you just get teased about it,
25:34 you get bullied about it, you get made fun of
25:36 'cause, oh, ha, ha, ha, you like this thing,
25:38 and that's so mainstream,
25:39 and it's just that type of thing,
25:42 whereas Taylor Swift is one of those people that,
25:46 yeah, you like Taylor Swift, right?
25:48 You can like Taylor Swift,
25:49 and she validates that sort of feeling within young women,
25:52 just feel whatever you want to feel, I suppose.
25:54 That's probably not the most eloquent way I could put it,
25:56 but I think that's a really big part of
25:59 the sort of culture that she surrounds herself with
26:01 and why it's kind of part of the reason
26:03 why she's so popular,
26:04 because she is exemplifying that type of behavior,
26:09 just do what you're gonna do anyway
26:11 and feel what you're gonna feel,
26:12 and that can be really validating.
26:15 And then on the other side of it,
26:17 a lot of it is smart marketing.
26:19 She's everywhere.
26:20 She's, she surrounds us all the time,
26:24 but it's, a lot of that's marketing,
26:27 and a lot of it's just her, herself.
26:30 She may, the way she interacts with people,
26:32 the way that her image is kind of shared across the world,
26:34 like she's just everywhere,
26:36 but I think that that goes back to,
26:39 she has so many different types of fans,
26:40 but then she has a specific set of fans
26:41 who've grown up with her as well,
26:43 and that they're not gonna just accept
26:45 that they kind of have to move on from that.
26:46 Why should they?
26:47 Because she's growing up with them as well.
26:48 You can see it in the way her music changes over the years,
26:50 and that sort of thing.
26:51 So yeah, I'm sure there's more points I've missed out,
26:54 but I'm sure you guys can absolutely expand.
26:58 - I actually, I completely agree with everything you said.
27:01 She really, it's so rare, I think,
27:05 and we sort of caught a glimpse of the excitement
27:07 that happens around it when it happens,
27:09 when the Barbie movie came out.
27:11 It's so rare to have things that are made with,
27:16 either with women in mind, and by women, and for women,
27:19 and centering women experience,
27:21 and saying like, yeah, we feel like this too,
27:25 and that's okay, and you shouldn't be ashamed
27:28 for feeling heartbreak, or loss, or anger
27:32 at the world around you,
27:33 particularly "Tales Twist" last album
27:35 was basically feral, which I loved,
27:37 because the world's an infuriating place,
27:41 and it is validating, and it is really,
27:45 it makes you feel like, oh, I'm not alone, okay.
27:50 I thought I was just thinking these things,
27:51 and everyone else made fun of me for it,
27:53 or everyone else didn't take it seriously,
27:56 and now here's the biggest star in the world saying,
28:00 yeah, no, it's fine, I felt like that before.
28:02 Here is a really beautiful song about it,
28:04 and it's that kind of feeling of inclusion and validation
28:08 that I think a lot of people get with her work.
28:11 That's what I think, Dave.
28:13 - No, I think I agree.
28:14 Yeah, no, because I think she is completely relatable,
28:18 and admittedly, she may be slightly more relatable
28:21 to a 16-year-old girl, but she's entirely relatable
28:24 to a 48-year-old man like me,
28:26 and people are sniffy about Taylor Swift,
28:29 and those people are just wrong.
28:30 I mean, they're definitely wrong,
28:32 because she is a brilliant songwriter.
28:34 There's no doubt about that.
28:35 She is a brilliant lyricist.
28:36 There's no doubt about that.
28:37 I can draw you graphs that prove this to be the case,
28:40 mathematically, you know?
28:42 So the people who are sniffy about it,
28:43 I find that, of people of my generation,
28:46 my age, old white men, basically,
28:48 the people who don't like Taylor Swift
28:49 tend to be the people who really don't like music that much.
28:51 They kind of make a pretense that's enjoying music
28:54 and going to the same five bands every year,
28:57 but they're not going down to King Tut's to see new bands.
29:00 They're not really interested in new music
29:03 or different genres.
29:04 They're the people who go and see Springsteen at Murrayfield,
29:07 and there's nothing wrong with Bruce Springsteen.
29:08 He's a great artist.
29:09 I really like seeing him live,
29:10 but they're the people who go to one gig a year, you know?
29:12 People who go to lots of gigs, people who like music,
29:15 people who work in record shops love Taylor Swift.
29:17 Now, if people who work in record shops,
29:20 any record shop you go into,
29:22 you ask the person behind the counter,
29:23 "What do you think of Taylor Swift?"
29:25 They will say, "She's absolutely brilliant,"
29:26 not only because she makes them a lot of money,
29:29 but they will play her records,
29:30 because people who like music and know music
29:33 like Taylor Swift, end of story.
29:35 So yeah, like, I just think she's got such broad appeal.
29:38 I completely agree with Lauren.
29:40 Her marketing is, I mean, fiendish.
29:42 The amount of money I spent on Taylor Swift,
29:45 and I don't really mind.
29:46 She deserves it.
29:47 She deserves all my money.
29:48 What am I going to use it for?
29:49 She should have all the money.
29:50 (laughs)
29:52 But then I think the sense of a community as well,
29:55 and just having something which is pure and good in a world,
29:59 which is not going well right now, let's face it,
30:01 and being able to kind of secrete yourself
30:04 into like a warm kind of bundle of Taylor fans
30:08 and Taylor music just feels really nice.
30:10 Like seven hours over a weekend,
30:12 I was genuinely happy.
30:13 (laughs)
30:15 All the time, you know?
30:16 But pure happiness.
30:19 - I think that's the most interesting thing as well,
30:21 is like with like the online phenomenon of like Swifties
30:24 and Taylor Swift and like Taylor Nation,
30:26 I'm someone who's not really on social media
30:28 all that much these days,
30:29 because I find it so just emotionally draining.
30:33 But even like when you dip your toes
30:35 into Taylor Swift, like sort of like fandom spaces,
30:37 I'm sure there's a lot of warmth there.
30:39 I'm sure there's a lot of people who are completely,
30:41 you know, will die hard Swifties,
30:43 who will be quite snippy to defend her,
30:46 which I totally respect.
30:47 You're allowed to do whatever you want.
30:48 But I think that translation of that
30:51 into the actual going to the Ears tour was,
30:54 that was why I was kind of nervous.
30:55 I've seen some of the online behavior of Swifties
30:57 before in the past, where you know,
30:58 they've gone after somebody
30:59 who said something negative about her,
31:00 but like in person, not the experience at all.
31:04 It was like almost the entire like opposite of it.
31:07 Everyone was just so warm, so welcoming, so friendly.
31:10 Everyone was just so happy to be there.
31:13 And I think that someone that can inspire that type of,
31:16 that sense of community, when you know for a fact
31:19 that half the people that concert weren't even from Scotland,
31:21 they weren't even from the UK,
31:22 they came there specifically to see Taylor Swift.
31:24 She's one like unifying force for a lot of people.
31:26 And I think it's just really interesting
31:28 because it's so many different people and cultures
31:33 and everything coming together.
31:34 And I think she transcends a lot of boundaries for people,
31:36 you know, like from me, who's grew up with her,
31:38 to Dave, who just loves and appreciates Taylor Swift
31:41 for the music that she creates.
31:42 And I think that that's just a really key part
31:44 of her entire mythos.
31:46 Like marketing aside, like her private hits aside,
31:50 like her extreme level of celebrity, you know,
31:52 her, the overwhelming interest in everything that she does,
31:55 all of that aside, like she wouldn't be where she was
31:58 if she wasn't doing something right
32:00 at the very fundamental level of, you know, making music.
32:02 So I just, I can understand why people would say,
32:06 you know, they don't like her
32:07 or that they don't understand why she's so popular.
32:10 But you know, for the fact that people are saying that,
32:13 absolutely will know the lyrics to Taylor Swift's song.
32:15 Even if they don't know they know the lyrics
32:16 to Taylor Swift's song,
32:17 they'll have all those things in the back of their head.
32:19 And, you know, they, it's just,
32:22 they wouldn't have that
32:24 if there wasn't something fundamentally
32:25 just good at the base of what she was producing
32:29 and putting out into the world.
32:31 - It's that thing that everyone knows
32:33 of Taylor Swift's song as well.
32:34 So it is a bit like the Beatles
32:36 and people compare it to Beatles.
32:37 And I think maybe Michael Jackson, Madonna,
32:38 the Beatles are the only people who can come close to her.
32:41 'Cause my mum knows basically the words to "Shake It Off."
32:44 She knows "Shake It Off."
32:45 She had no idea who actually sang it.
32:47 She's 80, but she, yes, she knows "Shake It Off."
32:50 So everyone knows that it's almost like
32:51 it's within our DNA now, Taylor Swift.
32:54 And you think about the other stadium bands.
32:55 If you go and see the Foo Fighters on Monday,
32:57 they're playing Hamden.
32:58 With the best one in the world,
32:59 I quite like the Foo Fighters.
33:01 A huge percentage of population
33:02 could not name you one Foo Fighters song
33:05 because they're still slightly niche in that way
33:07 that they can still fill a stadium,
33:09 but you could get through your life
33:10 without hearing that many Foo Fighters songs.
33:12 You couldn't do that with Taylor Swift.
33:13 You can't avoid Taylor Swift.
33:15 It's impossible to possibly avoid her.
33:18 So she is, she's kind of ubiquitous, isn't she?
33:21 In a way that very few bands have been
33:24 or ever will be again.
33:25 - I liked what you said earlier
33:28 in a different time that we were talking about Taylor.
33:30 When you said, you know,
33:32 it's impossible to not enjoy the Ares II if you went along.
33:35 And if you don't like the Ares II when you went along,
33:37 it feels like you're deliberately trying to not like it.
33:41 And I think that a lot about people who,
33:43 like not necessarily people who are like,
33:44 "Oh yeah, she's good.
33:45 Like I wouldn't pay tickets to go and see the Ares II,
33:48 but you know, fine."
33:49 But people who actively don't like her,
33:52 I think will, that feels like you're deliberately trying
33:55 because her music is so different
33:58 and has sort of changed so much
34:00 in the past 17 years or whatever,
34:03 that I'd fight anyone to listen to all of her albums
34:05 and not like any of them.
34:07 I just, I don't think it's possible.
34:10 I'd love to have someone tried it,
34:12 but I mean, I mean, I wouldn't believe you.
34:14 - Yeah.
34:14 I think it's totally valid that people can,
34:16 I've seen some criticisms of her most recent album
34:18 where people are just talking about how much they dislike it
34:21 and they dislike it for X, Y, Z reason.
34:22 And you know what?
34:23 It's an opinion.
34:24 You're allowed to have your own opinion.
34:25 Your opinion is valid to you.
34:28 I don't have to agree with you,
34:29 but I can accept that you think that way.
34:31 But I think with the Taylor Swift thing,
34:33 the Edith's tour in particular,
34:35 if you, I'm the type of person
34:36 that I will go along to any sort of show
34:38 if I get an invite, if I have a ticket, I'll just go.
34:40 I don't really care if I know the band,
34:41 if I don't know the band.
34:43 I like listening to new types of music.
34:45 I like listening to all sorts of stuff.
34:47 And as you say, Taylor Swift is one of the people
34:50 from her debut, she's changed.
34:51 Her music has changed so much creatively.
34:54 You can hear different influences.
34:55 You can hear the different genres
34:58 that she dips her toes into.
34:59 And she has almost every type of song under her belt now.
35:03 And I think, but the sheer just production
35:05 of the years tour,
35:06 the journey, it's not just,
35:10 I've seen people compare it to a stage production
35:12 and I'm very much agreeing with that.
35:13 It's the emotional kind of journey
35:14 that you go on throughout with it.
35:15 Even if you don't know that many Taylor Swift songs,
35:17 there's gonna be at least two or three in there
35:19 that you're like, "Oh, this one."
35:21 And you're gonna be like, "Yeah, okay, I get that."
35:24 But it's just, I don't understand how you could go
35:26 and be in a crowd full of people
35:28 who are having a great time
35:30 and you are not having,
35:31 and you're like, paying attention and listening
35:33 that you wouldn't have like a little bit of,
35:36 okay, okay, kind of give a moment.
35:38 And it's okay if you don't wanna ever go back
35:40 to like listening to her.
35:41 You don't have to, like, it's not,
35:44 she's not actually a cult weird as much.
35:46 Some people like to say she's not.
35:48 And it's just, I think it doesn't make you cooler edgy
35:53 if you don't like Taylor Swift.
35:55 You're allowed to have that opinion,
35:57 but you're also not allowed to be,
35:59 rude about people who don't share that opinion.
36:02 And it's, I don't know.
36:06 I just think that she's someone who inspires
36:08 a lot of opinions in a lot of people.
36:10 And maybe not all of them positive,
36:13 but I think that someone who maybe has never listened to her
36:17 and is like, "Well, what is going on?"
36:19 There's lots of different songs specifically
36:22 that you could listen to and it might help you understand,
36:24 but it's okay if it doesn't.
36:26 If it's not for you, it's not for you,
36:27 but just be a little bit kinder
36:30 when you think about it, I guess.
36:33 - I agree.
36:33 Let people have their fun.
36:34 If people like something, they love something,
36:36 let them do it.
36:37 And it feels like a good place to end.
36:39 What a beautiful moral lesson for our time.
36:42 Thank you very much, Dave and Lauren.
36:46 Brilliant.
36:47 We'll probably still be talking about this
36:50 for the next few weeks.
36:51 So sorry, we won't record those conversations,
36:54 but we hope everyone enjoyed at least this one.
36:57 Bye.
36:58 - Cheers, bye.
36:59 (upbeat music)
37:04 (upbeat music)