A special interview with Hakim Adi, historian of Africa and the African diaspora, to go over Panafricanism, its roots and future. TeleSUR
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00:37 Hello, and welcome to Tell Us Your English.
00:40 In this case, we are from Havana, Cuba, from the Casa de las Americas,
00:45 the iconic Cuban cultural institution.
00:48 And we are pleased to greet Professor Hakeem Addy.
00:51 He is here with us.
00:53 He's a historian and specialized on history of Africa and the African diaspora.
00:58 And thank you for joining us here in Tell Us Your English.
01:02 Hakeem, we are pleased to have you here with us.
01:04 >> My great pleasure.
01:05 >> So I would like to start by asking you,
01:08 what are we talking about when we talk about Pan-Africanism?
01:11 >> Pan-Africanism is a movement, an idea,
01:16 really concerned with the liberation of Africa and the entire African diaspora.
01:22 Concerned with the unity of Africa and
01:24 the African diaspora in pursuit of its liberation.
01:30 So it arose out of the conditions of colonialism,
01:34 enslavement, racism, and so on.
01:37 And really became an established movement at the beginning of the 20th century.
01:41 >> So in your studies, in your book, you cover, well,
01:48 you've done a whole history from the development,
01:52 the origins and development of Pan-Africanism.
01:55 And I would like to ask you about the particular significance that
02:00 the countries in this region, from the Caribbean and
02:03 also other regions from South America, like Brazil, for example.
02:07 What can you tell us about the importance that this region of the world has played
02:12 in the broader picture, the broader history of Pan-Africanism?
02:16 >> Well, particularly from the Caribbean, a country such as Haiti,
02:21 which is in the news at the moment,
02:22 played a very important part in the development of Pan-Africanism.
02:27 We could say that the Haitian Revolution itself was a Pan-African act,
02:31 in the sense that Africans from many parts of the continent who had been
02:36 kidnapped, enslaved, taken to the Caribbean, organized themselves,
02:40 spoke different languages, but came together in unity to overthrow
02:45 the entire slave system, to defeat the armies of Britain, France, Spain, and so
02:49 on, liberate themselves, and then create a haven for other Africans.
02:55 And a symbol of the independence of all Africans,
02:59 a symbol of African liberation, African freedom.
03:02 So countries like Haiti have played a very important role, and
03:06 then people from the countries of the Caribbean and Latin America have also
03:11 played a very important role in the development of Pan-Africanism.
03:16 For example, somebody like Marcus Garvey in the 1920s played an important role.
03:21 There have been many others drawn from this region,
03:25 from the American continent, as well as Africa and other parts of the world.
03:29 >> You've just mentioned that Haiti is, of course, in the news.
03:34 It has been for quite some time, and particularly in this month.
03:38 Do you have a read on the ongoing crisis that the Haitian people
03:44 are currently going through and its links to this initial moment that you
03:49 pictured as a first Pan-African revolution?
03:54 Is there a link between the two instances in history?
03:57 >> Well, there's certainly a link in the sense that the big powers,
04:02 initially France, and then more recently the United States,
04:06 have tried to stifle that liberation, stifle that independence.
04:11 And many of Haiti's problems today are the direct result of the intervention of,
04:16 we can say, US imperialism, as well as the other big powers, France, Canada, and
04:21 others, who have created the very conditions which exist in Haiti today.
04:26 And having created the conditions,
04:27 they say that they wish to intervene to change those conditions.
04:33 But the essence is that they've created the problem and cannot solve it.
04:38 And it should be left for the people of Haiti, with their friends, of course,
04:43 to solve the problems that are facing Haiti today.
04:47 >> And Professor Hakeem, one of your areas of study has also been
04:53 the link between Pan-Africanism and communism.
04:56 I wanted to ask you about that link.
04:59 First of all, about your desire to explore that relationship between the two.
05:05 What drew you to that link?
05:07 >> Well, often things have been presented in such a way that it would
05:13 appear that there is a division or a difference between these two movements.
05:20 But Pan-Africanism is concerned with the unity and
05:25 liberation of Africa and its diaspora.
05:28 Communism is concerned with the liberation of the workers,
05:33 the toilers of all countries.
05:35 And so there's a clear interconnection between the two.
05:40 And particularly in the early 20th century when many people from the African diaspora
05:45 in the US and the Caribbean as well as in Africa were looking to find ways
05:50 of affecting their liberation, they were greatly inspired by the communist movement.
05:56 And particularly by the events that had taken place in Russia,
05:59 then the Soviet Union.
06:01 They said to themselves, if the people of Russia, the ordinary workers and
06:04 farmers of Russia can liberate themselves,
06:07 then this has got to be a good thing for us.
06:10 And perhaps we can liberate ourselves by following a similar example.
06:15 And of course they were encouraged and inspired by the creation of
06:21 the communist movement, the communist international, which then tried to assist
06:26 and intervene in those struggles in Africa, the Caribbean, and other places.
06:30 And encourage that unity and encourage people to struggle for their liberation.
06:36 But in collaboration with the struggles of people of all countries.
06:42 So I think that's the connection between the two movements.
06:44 >> And do you believe that, can we think Pan-Africanism
06:52 as being inherently anti-imperialist?
06:56 Or are there different ways of approaching, or
07:00 have there been different ways of approaching the idea of Pan-Africanism?
07:04 >> Pan-Africanism is a broad movement.
07:07 In my book I say it's like a river with many different streams and currents.
07:13 Broadly speaking, yes, we could say it is a movement opposed to colonialism,
07:18 opposed to racism, opposed to imperialism.
07:21 But of course some people, some organizations take slightly different
07:26 routes to that liberation, slower routes we could say.
07:31 For example, today we have a Pan-African organization such as the African Union.
07:37 The organization of the countries of Africa in particular, but
07:41 which also includes the diaspora.
07:44 The African Union was established ostensibly as a bulwark
07:50 against imperialism, against neoliberal globalization.
07:54 But of course because of the actual situation in the world, it's very
07:57 difficult for those African countries, the governments of which are tied
08:02 to the imperialist system of states in one way or another, to actually
08:07 operate in a united and organized way for
08:11 the benefit of all the people of Africa and the diaspora too.
08:15 So you have there a contradiction, a Pan-African organization attempting
08:20 to develop that unity, attempting to affect that liberation, but in a very slow way.
08:26 And continually impacted by,
08:33 so I say, the big powers, the imperialist system of states.
08:36 So that contradiction exists.
08:38 >> And of course, when you studied the relationship between Pan-Africanism and
08:44 communism, you focused your research on the decades of the 20s and
08:48 30s and the 20th century.
08:52 But we're here in Havana, and I cannot avoid to ask you about Cuba and
08:59 its role in this broader picture of what you're studying as Pan-Africanism.
09:05 Thinking Cuba as not only a country in the Caribbean that has brought about and
09:12 sustained a socialist revolution, but it has also made concerted efforts of
09:17 supporting and continue to this day to do concerted efforts of supporting
09:21 the struggles of the people in Africa and the African continent.
09:25 So what is your read on Cuba?
09:26 >> Well, Cuba has been and continues to be a very, very important country.
09:33 Unique, really, in the world in this period and in the previous period.
09:39 So a great inspiration to those people within Africa,
09:44 in other parts of the Caribbean, globally, to the African diaspora.
09:49 An example of the possibility of liberation.
09:52 And then as you hinted, also played a very important role in the liberation
09:57 struggles in Africa, particularly in places like Angola, Mozambique, Guinea.
10:01 A very important role in the final elimination of the apartheid regime in
10:07 South Africa.
10:08 So Cuba has that role, and I think certainly in the time of Fidel,
10:13 it saw its positioning, its involvement in Africa
10:18 as if you like connecting the struggles of Cubans,
10:22 many of whom have African heritage, with the struggles in the African continent.
10:27 But I think it remains, perhaps more importantly today,
10:30 it remains an example of what a small country can do.
10:34 Even though blockaded by the biggest imperialist power in the world,
10:39 it can still exist, it can still make progress despite all the difficulties and
10:45 so on, and I think the most important thing about Cuba today is it shows us
10:50 an alternative, because the big powers continually present
10:56 the view that there is only their imperialist system of states.
11:00 There's only neoliberalism, there's only the capital-centered system.
11:04 But Cuba shows that there is another way, and even under that blockade of
11:10 so many decades, that there are great possibilities.
11:13 And one imagines if there wasn't that blockade, what kind of country Cuba
11:17 would be, it would be an even greater example to the rest of the world.
11:21 >> So Professor Addy, in closing, I would like to ask you about how you view
11:27 the world, the current world, in which the global South has been striving
11:33 to encourage relationships between, besides other countries,
11:38 also countries in the African continent and the Latin American continent,
11:42 the Caribbean region.
11:44 For example, here in Havana last year was the G77 and China Summit,
11:49 that in which many African leaders participated and talked about the
11:53 importance of relations between Latin America, Caribbean, and
11:58 the African continent.
11:59 How do you view this possible connection, this present for
12:02 the global South in the view of what we've been talking about so far?
12:06 >> Potentially it's very important.
12:09 In fact, the first time I came to Cuba was for a G77 meeting.
12:14 I remember it very well.
12:15 Fidel spoke and gave this, what can you say,
12:21 very inspiring speech about the world being like a ship.
12:27 And he essentially said in that analogy, unless the peoples of the world came
12:33 together and took over the ship, it would sail into an iceberg.
12:38 So I think that image is very important.
12:40 Yes, the relations between governments are extremely important, but
12:44 also the relationship between peoples of the world.
12:47 The peoples of the global South finding ways of coming together,
12:52 organizing themselves, uniting to change the world.
12:55 Because as we're seeing with Haiti, for example,
13:00 sometimes the countries of the South are a bit confused about where their
13:05 interests lie or where the interests of their people lie or
13:08 where the interests of the people of the countries of the global South lie.
13:12 So the involvement of the people unleashing that,
13:17 the human factor you could say, is so important.
13:21 And finding ways of doing that, which countries like Cuba or Venezuela or
13:26 Brazil or Colombia and others can play a very important role.
13:32 But as I say, always utilizing the strength, the unity,
13:37 the possibilities of the people themselves to change the situation.
13:41 I think that's the key thing.
13:43 >> Professor, I would like to thank you on behalf of Teluser English for
13:48 joining us for this great conversation.
13:52 It's been a pleasure to have you here with us.
13:54 >> My pleasure, thank you.
13:55 >> And like this, we come to a close on this great conversation with Professor Ady.
14:01 and stay here with Teluser English, stay with us.