MUST WATCH: John Kennedy Ruthlessly Interrogates Witness Over 'Price-Fixing' Claims

7 months ago

At a Senate Banking Committee hearing on Wednesday, Sen. John Kennedy (R-LA) questioned witnesses about alleged price-fixing by corporate grocery stores.

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Transcript

00:00 Thank you, Madam Chair. Interesting questions. Mr. Maxwell, you're a farmer, is that right?

00:09 Yes, Senator.

00:10 Excuse me. You used to be a farmer or you still are?

00:14 Yes, Senator, I grew up on a farm. I'm a fourth generation Missouri farmer. My brother does

00:21 most of the farming. I do this activity more. I do have degrees in ag economics and a law

00:28 degree, but I still actively farm. I've got over 100 ewes on the farm. We have hogs production.

00:38 We're kind of the diversified traditional family farm type operation. Lease out some

00:43 of the land to the neighbor boy.

00:47 America was born on a farm. Thank you for that.

00:52 Thank you, Senator.

00:54 Ms. Hatch, you talked about in order to commit a crime, you have to have means, motive, and

01:07 opportunity. Is that right?

01:10 Yes, sir.

01:13 You have suggested that it's not an optimal situation to have, well, strike that. Let

01:22 me just get after it here. What crime are you accusing the four major food companies

01:28 of?

01:29 Price gouging, sir.

01:33 You think they're price fixing?

01:35 In some cases, absolutely.

01:38 Name the four companies that you are accusing of price fixing.

01:43 In the grocery sector or more broadly?

01:45 The four you've been talking about.

01:48 Name me every company that you think is price fixing in violation of the antitrust laws.

01:55 The most recent example that I think is worth considering is Agristats.

02:00 If you don't mind, we'll come back and do the examples. Name me the companies that you're

02:05 accusing of price fixing.

02:07 The first one is Agristats, which the Department of Justice has sued for price fixing.

02:12 Who else?

02:13 In the grocery sector, we've got Walmart, we've got Kroger.

02:17 Walmart is price fixing.

02:20 No, I haven't accused them of price fixing.

02:21 You just did.

02:22 No, what I've said is that they are able to expand their markup.

02:26 All right, let me start over here. Price fixing is a serious crime, Doc. You can go to jail

02:34 for that. I want to be sure I understand your testimony. Who are you accusing of price fixing?

02:41 Yeah, look, what my testimony clearly states is that-

02:44 Tell me which companies you're accusing of price fixing. You said some were price fixing,

02:50 and I want to know which ones. I may report them myself.

02:55 The company that's absolutely under investigation by the DOJ-

02:57 Which ones are price fixing?

02:59 I think the Federal Trade Commission and the Department of Justice should take a close

03:02 look at the four major grocers. They should take a close look at the four major meat packers.

03:07 If you're just answering my question, which companies are price fixing?

03:12 Tyson is a great example.

03:14 Who?

03:15 Tyson, the large meat packer.

03:16 Okay, who else?

03:17 The big four meat packers are all currently under-

03:19 Who else? That's one. Who else?

03:22 Like I said, I think looking at the four major grocers makes sense in this setting.

03:25 Which four are price fixing?

03:27 Walmart, Albertson's, Kroger.

03:28 Walmart's price fixing. Wait, wait, wait. Let me-

03:30 I didn't say they were. I said taking a look.

03:31 You just said they were. You can't come here and say and imply they're price fixing and

03:37 then say they're price fixing. That's a serious allegation. You can be sued for defamation.

03:42 I said we should take a close look at the companies-

03:44 Now, let me go back. I want to be sure I understand your testimony. Are you telling me right here

03:51 today that you're accusing Walmart of price fixing?

03:54 I'm not personally accusing Walmart of price fixing. I am suggesting that-

03:56 Who are you accusing of price fixing? That's a serious charge.

04:00 Neither my written testimony nor my oral testimony makes explicit legal claims.

04:04 So you're not accusing anybody of price fixing?

04:07 No, I have pointed out that the Department of Justice is currently looking at price fixing

04:11 by Agristats.

04:12 Why won't you answer my question? Who are you accusing of price fixing?

04:16 I'm pretty sure I have answered your question.

04:18 No, you haven't. Just tell me the names of the companies one by one. What's the first

04:22 company that you're accusing of price fixing?

04:24 I've mentioned Agristats is currently-

04:26 Agra what?

04:27 Agristats.

04:28 All right, who's number two?

04:30 I said Tyson's is currently under investigation for price fixing.

04:33 Tyson's is price fixing.

04:34 Yeah.

04:35 Who's number three?

04:36 I've also said that I think the Department of Justice and the FTC should take a close

04:39 look at the-

04:40 Who's number three?

04:41 Major grocery retailers.

04:42 Who's number three? Is Walmart price fixing?

04:44 I think that they should take a look at this.

04:45 Is Walmart price fixing?

04:47 They should take a look at it.

04:48 Is Walmart price fixing?

04:50 I can't currently answer that question. I said that the Department of Justice-

04:52 You won't answer that question.

04:53 No, I said that-

04:54 How about Albertson's? Is Albertson's price fixing?

04:55 The Department of Justice and the Federal Trade Commission-

04:57 Is Albertson's price fixing?

04:59 Should take a close look at that.

05:00 Is Albertson's price fixing?

05:01 Again, I think the Department of Justice should take a close look.

05:04 You don't want to say.

05:05 No, I mean, look, I'm not at the FTC. I'm not at the DOJ.

05:08 Yes, ma'am, but you've accused me-

05:09 My job's to-

05:10 You've accused these companies of breaking the law, and I think that you ought to have

05:14 the courage to say in front of God and country what you believe. Now, you either do or you

05:19 don't.

05:20 Look, I believe that when companies get larger and larger and larger-

05:23 I understand what you believe, but I understand your waffling.

05:24 It becomes easier and easier-

05:25 Your waffling.

05:26 And easier to coordinate-

05:27 You're like a bank catfish, okay?

05:30 It's easy to coordinate price hatred-

05:31 Dr. Antoni.

05:32 -when you're large and there are fewer companies.

05:33 Dr. Antoni.

05:36 I think it's been well established that if we discovered life on Mars tomorrow, Joe

05:47 Biden would send it money. To what extent has his deficit spending contributed to inflation?

06:00 And do you know of any of these companies? Would you care to accuse someone of a crime

06:06 here today? And if anybody else would, just let me know. If somebody is price fixing,

06:13 I want to know. I'll report them myself, and I'm going to want to see your evidence. Otherwise,

06:20 you subject yourself to defamation. But let me go back to my original question. What was

06:27 it? Mars? Was it Mars or Jupiter? I forgot. Is the amount of money that President Biden

06:33 has insisted on spending contributed to inflation? Duh. What's your answer to that?

06:39 Well, Senator, regarding the price fixing, I have no evidence because there is no evidence

06:43 of that, so I can't provide that to you. But to answer the hypothetical on Mars, absolutely

06:49 that would add to inflation. And yes, the deficit spending under this president, but

06:55 really under any president, it doesn't matter that it's Joe Biden in particular in the White

06:59 House doing it, if any person did what he did, it would have the exact same effect,

07:06 which is this massive run up in prices. Because again, it's not that things are more valuable,

07:11 it's that the dollar is worth less. So it takes more dollars to buy exactly what you

07:15 used to. And if you look at, again, the Biden administration's own data, these aren't my

07:20 figures, these are figures from the Biden administration. They show that prices paid

07:24 by businesses and prices paid by consumers have gone up almost exactly the same, about

07:30 19% during his tenure. And so this idea that somehow the prices that consumers, that you

07:37 eye, that all of the people that you represent are paying are somehow the cause of anything

07:43 other than costs simply being passed on to them, the data simply don't support that.

07:48 Okay. And that's you, Doc.

07:55 Excuse me. No evidence, no, I'm not accusing anyone of price fixing.

08:03 Are you a lawyer by chance?

08:04 I'm sorry?

08:05 Are you a lawyer by chance?

08:07 Oh, no, I'm not. Just an economist.

08:09 Okay. What happens if you accuse somebody of price fixing and they didn't do it?

08:16 I probably don't want to be that person.

08:19 You got good insurance?

08:20 Yeah. No, I'm not. Not doing that.

08:23 Okay. Go ahead.

08:26 As far as the fiscal stimulus stuff, that's a standard economic model. And you can go

08:34 back and look, multiple people, Olivier Blanchard is one, some of the upper bound estimates

08:41 on how big the shortfall in demand was after COVID and the shutdowns. So like one of the

08:48 largest upper bound estimates that I've seen is about $680 billion, just the COVID package

08:55 of 1.9 trillion. That's already almost three times the size of that. So that's.

09:00 You want to go now?

09:05 Sure.

09:06 All right.

09:07 Let the record reflect that the Senator from Louisiana is far more loquacious than the

09:12 Baptist preacher.

09:14 And that's a high standard. Senator Warnock.

09:18 Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

MUST WATCH: John Kennedy Ruthlessly Interrogates Witness Over 'Price-Fixing' Claims

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