In the third episode of 'Billboard Unfiltered,' Billboard staffers Damien Scott, Carl Lamarre and Trevor Anderson discuss the turmoil regarding Diddy’s physical assault video & sexual assault allegations, how this will affect his legacy, debate whether Lauryn Hill’s singular album is the “best” and more.
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00:00 Gotta take a moment also to feel for Cassie because, you know, I'm sure she didn't expect this to come out at this moment at this time.
00:06 The shit that Lauren has been able to get away with for 25 years because of one album.
00:12 I also think God's plan was just a monster of a song.
00:16 In one of these, his career is dead. He drops the biggest song of his life.
00:19 First topic we're gonna get into today.
00:25 Last week, CNN got some footage, video footage from 2016 stemming from a physical altercation between Diddy and Cassie.
00:35 Where Diddy, it looks like, kicked her, shoved her, dragged her in a hotel.
00:41 This is coming from the lawsuit from months ago that came out 2023.
00:46 And now we got video evidence supporting the claims.
00:50 Day after Diddy came out with an apology, did it directly name Cassie because of the lawsuit.
00:57 But, you know, a lot of outrage, obviously. Curious to hear reactions, thoughts on the situation at hand.
01:04 It's terrible. One of the worst things I've ever seen.
01:06 Yeah, you know, there were rumors that this was happening.
01:12 The most puzzling part of just the past few weeks to me has been Diddy's actions.
01:22 Him going on Instagram, posting messages to the effect of, you know, the truth will come out.
01:30 And, you know, he's tired of people lying about him and enough's enough.
01:36 And then we see this video and it just makes him seem crazy.
01:42 Yeah.
01:43 I don't know in what world you know that this is not only out there, but just you know that you've done this.
01:55 And your reaction is to say enough's enough. People are lying on me.
01:59 Soon the truth will come out. And the truth came out and it was devastating for him.
02:05 It was nasty.
02:06 It was terrible.
02:07 It was nasty. Trubb?
02:08 Yeah, I mean, there's no way you can look at this and not just be just like horrified.
02:13 And, you know, I've seen people, of course, read about a lot of the allegations and the suit that came out and, you know, people sharing it.
02:18 But, of course, when you see it, you know, I mean, it's right up there.
02:21 I think I think I mentioned to you like the Ray Rice video, you know, when you really just like even with Quavo and Sweet, like just one of those videos that's going to go down.
02:29 It's like this infamous thing. And I mean, you see, of course, you know him.
02:32 I mean, he's in the towels. You can see how quickly she's running for, you know, maybe just in that split second.
02:38 You know, that's our only sort of way to get out. Of course, you see what happens.
02:41 I mean, and that's just sort of one glimpse.
02:44 Of course, you can't we can't say, you know, what happens before or after this is a repeat pattern or whatever.
02:49 But just even that alone, that's like confirming, you know, all these things.
02:53 And like Dave said, I mean, the fact that.
02:56 You know, obviously, it's happened eight years ago, so you probably think it's not going to see the light of day if nobody's found the tape by now, it's not going to come out.
03:01 You settled this suit. So this whole chapter you probably thought was closed.
03:06 And I mean, like, again, just to say like, oh, the truth's out there, you know, I'll be exonerated.
03:12 You know, it's all going to come. You know, it's all don't believe any of this that's going on.
03:17 I mean, I don't you know, it's. I mean, it's just so hard to wrap your head around.
03:22 And yeah, I think he's I mean, absolutely cooked in.
03:25 I've got to take a moment also to feel for Cassie, because, you know, I'm sure she didn't expect this to come out at this moment.
03:31 At this time, you know, obviously it's going to generate a lot of support and sympathy and empathy for her, which, you know, of course, is a good thing.
03:38 But you never know how she's feeling, having to sort of relive this moment.
03:41 And now the whole world's talking about it. I mean, I want some sort of ironically, of course, here we are discussing it.
03:46 But, you know, you just hope that she's dealing with it, you know, as best she can.
03:50 Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I look at it to your point with Cassie, man, like.
03:55 For black and brown women just in general, there's been a thing recently where it's like, yo.
04:01 When they speak, oftentimes it's just silent.
04:06 Yeah. You know, and sometimes you need some allegations or not allegations.
04:11 You need some proof to cement those claims.
04:15 And it's unfortunate that it took these lengths for people to now give her the sympathy.
04:20 Yeah. You know, and it makes me wonder specifically, you know, hearing the claims, you know, about Huff.
04:27 Like you think about the Cuddy shit, you know, with him allegedly blowing up Cuddy's car.
04:32 You think about him dangling that person from the balcony, you know.
04:38 So like now it makes you really.
04:40 He's turning out to be the person we all thought Suge Knight was.
04:43 Which is crazy.
04:45 Which is crazy.
04:45 Crazy.
04:46 Y'all thought that Joker Halloween costume was just, you know.
04:49 It's pretty terrifying.
04:50 People thought, you know, it's a little too close.
04:52 Yeah. I grew up with this guy as an idol of mine.
04:56 He was the most successful, you know, musician, mogul.
05:02 He dictated culture for a long time.
05:05 And as you grow up, you start hearing these things.
05:08 You start to question, you know, him.
05:11 You start to question the art that's made.
05:13 You start to question a lot of things about him.
05:14 And now for me as someone who came up as such a fan of Bad Boy and Bad Boy artists.
05:22 Now it's tough for me to really remain a fan at all.
05:30 You know, it's tough for me to.
05:32 I don't think you can erase the music that was made.
05:35 But it has broken my connection with Diddy in the way that I once had it.
05:42 To that point.
05:43 As a fan.
05:43 Because cancel culture is so swift and strong nowadays.
05:47 I mean, we've seen it with R. Kelly, obviously.
05:50 You know, in some cases it happened with Chris, where he's still combating, you know,
05:56 cancel culture in some degree.
05:58 To Damien's point, Trevor, do you think, are you done playing anything Bad Boy related?
06:04 Or Puff related?
06:05 Is it time to kind of close the door?
06:09 I still play Mase, I think.
06:11 Biggie, yeah, yeah.
06:12 Biggie and Mase.
06:12 But no way out.
06:13 It's over, I think.
06:15 You know, I was thinking about this yesterday, because I mean, I was trying to think of like,
06:20 okay, what is Diddy's legacy going to be like?
06:22 What is the future going to be?
06:23 Obviously, this is a huge part of the story, you know, whenever the full Diddy tale is,
06:29 you know, written from start to finish.
06:31 But I am curious to see, you know, when people talk about, you know, art versus artist and
06:35 this and that.
06:36 And of course, R. Kelly came up as probably the most, I don't want to say a parallel in
06:41 terms of what they did or what happened.
06:44 But just this huge celebrity that, you know, we've had this giant reckoning on that, you
06:48 know, we'll see what else, of course, comes out to light with Diddy and some of these
06:50 court cases and things like that.
06:52 You know, it'd be interesting, because R. Kelly, like, I guess between R. Kelly and
06:58 Puff, certainly with Kels, the music is so hard for a lot of people to, you know, go
07:03 with just because it feels to them like...
07:06 Well, it came out that he wrote some of the songs about the things he was doing.
07:09 Right, I mean, it's like, you know, it's literally like they're semi-autobiographical.
07:12 "You're Not Alone," I think was further, yeah.
07:14 Yeah, "You're Not Alone," I mean, you know, "AJ Number to Number," all these things that
07:17 are, you know, these breadcrumbs that people feel like you can't even listen to an R. Kelly
07:20 song and not have that same context.
07:23 With Puff, obviously, you know, his catalog is not autobiographical in that same way.
07:28 So I'm curious to see if people can separate, you know, especially the classic hits from,
07:33 you know, from the situation and if that's gonna change.
07:37 And of course, he's so intertwined with a lot of other artists with, you know, his On
07:40 Biggie records, you know, he's got his own, you know, his own stuff collaborations with
07:44 Usher and this and that.
07:45 I mean, but then even think about some of the women he's worked with, like a Lil' Kim,
07:48 a Mary J. Blige, you know.
07:50 Total.
07:51 Total.
07:51 Yeah.
07:51 You know, and I think it's very important to say to the viewers as well, as crazy as
07:57 this may sound, Puff has not been charged.
08:00 I mean, well, yeah, you know, so he is still legally outside and innocent, you know, while,
08:08 you know, court of public opinion obviously has their feelings, but it's important to
08:12 note that he has not been charged with anything.
08:14 But I will say, you know, sort of on that Kelz/Diddy parallel, you know, Kelz does have
08:21 still to this day a core group that's not leaving him.
08:25 Right.
08:25 You know, the music is too good, you know, he was my soundtrack of my life.
08:30 Diddy, I don't think has that same kind of shored up support where it just feels like…
08:34 I think Diddy worked with people who have that type of support, like Biggie is one who
08:39 people are, you know, steadfast fans of.
08:42 Yeah.
08:43 But I think people can sort of, you know, they can keep the Biggie and discard Puff.
08:47 Yeah, I think we're going to see that put to the test.
08:50 You know, my favorite, I think everyone who knows me, who knows this about me, my favorite
08:56 rap album of all time, I don't think it's the best rap album, but my favorite rap album
09:00 of all time is Harlem World.
09:03 That's just my favorite rap album.
09:05 When it came out, you know, it was a good time in my life when it came out.
09:10 You know, he was like the hottest rapper in the world.
09:12 Bad Boy was on top of the world.
09:16 Yeah.
09:16 That album, to me, has a special place in my heart.
09:20 So it's… now I'm like, now I have to reckon with this, with these two sides of
09:30 this, you know, do I just keep it as… because it's a Mase album and Mase is one person,
09:37 he has no involvement in this.
09:39 But it's funny you say that, right, because somebody like Mase has proven already to be
09:43 distancing himself…
09:45 Tried his hardest.
09:46 …from Puff.
09:46 Tried his hardest, ran away.
09:48 Yeah, and you know, with the cam… a lot of artists now, I mean, 50 has been like the
09:53 main antagonist for Puff, where he's just cooking them.
09:56 Allegedly, Netflix was the highest bidder in purchasing that documentary 50 made about
10:02 Puff, but along with 50, I mean, all the artists have been either speaking against Puff or
10:07 just on the topic in general.
10:09 We saw Cam'ron on CNN doing the shameless plug.
10:14 Looking ridiculous.
10:14 Looking ridiculous.
10:15 Looking ridiculous.
10:16 But I thought even with that situation, Cam made some valid points after the interview
10:22 where he was like, "Yo, y'all brought me on CNN to bring a man down, why not just
10:30 talk about anything positive?"
10:31 And to talk about positive about that man, bro.
10:34 Oh, he meant as far as not even with Puff, he was just saying in general, like, "Why
10:38 can't y'all just hit me up to talk?
10:39 Why y'all just hit me up to talk about another man's downfall?"
10:43 Sure.
10:43 But hence why he was being a dickhead that entire interview.
10:47 If you…
10:47 Yeah, I saw it.
10:48 …promoting some libido shit…
10:50 I think Cam, just to speak to that for a quick second, Cam is now… he now is a part of
10:56 the media.
10:57 Right.
10:57 He has a platform on which he has talked about Diddy.
11:01 He's famous.
11:03 With Mace.
11:03 And Mace is right there.
11:04 Yeah, yeah.
11:04 With a person who has had extremely intimate relationships and business dealings with this
11:12 person.
11:13 It makes all the sense in the world to call someone like Cam'ron on, someone who speaks
11:20 his mind, is not afraid to say what he thinks.
11:21 As proven.
11:22 As proven to come on CNN and to talk about it.
11:25 Yeah.
11:26 And I don't know, I think if you're going to go on there when they're talking about
11:30 a person who's done such heinous things such as Diddy and you act in the way that
11:35 you act, that's just a bad look for rap as a whole.
11:39 But you also gotta remember, this is Cam.
11:42 I get it's Cam.
11:43 Think of the 60 Minutes interview, you know how this dude operates, man.
11:47 With Anderson, with Bill O'Reilly.
11:50 Bill O'Reilly was like 20 plus years ago.
11:53 The producer should have vetted a little better.
11:54 Absolutely.
11:55 To know what you're walking into.
11:56 Bill O'Reilly was like 20 plus years ago, bro.
11:58 To know what you're walking…
11:59 And has this dude matured?
12:00 Obviously not.
12:02 Exactly.
12:02 Obviously not.
12:03 We'll never call Cam again for this.
12:05 Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
12:06 Yeah, he and Abbey, that's done.
12:07 But I think, I felt bad, it's like, come on, bro.
12:10 You're gonna do that to Abbey?
12:12 That Abbey, I will say, the one thing else, I've never heard Silas so loud in a show.
12:17 Oh, she's disgusting.
12:18 Like the whole, like her whole side, I mean like you could hear, I'm sure you could
12:22 hear a pin drop, the producers was, it was just very like, okay, I'm gonna try to…
12:25 There was definitely someone in the control room like, what?
12:28 Absolutely.
12:29 Yeah, it was just like…
12:30 But I think now like going full circle back with Mase, I did find it interesting when
12:34 Cam said, and he said it before on the Is What It Is podcast that he hosts with Mase,
12:39 that when Mase went, or when Cam was coming up, Mase didn't bring Cam to Puff.
12:47 He made it a thing to bring it to Biggie.
12:51 And this was over 30 years ago.
12:53 And Cam always, he was like mad at Mase for that.
12:56 25, 30, yeah.
12:57 He was mad at Mase because he was like, you got this deal, why can't you help me out?
13:02 Right.
13:02 And it didn't come out until recently that Mase was like, I wasn't gonna push you
13:06 in that situation, bro.
13:07 Which is crazy.
13:08 That's what we call a real friend, man.
13:10 Which is crazy.
13:11 And the high side is crazy.
13:13 This guy…
13:14 At the time, the foreside from Mase.
13:16 Yeah, that was the word, the foreside is crazy.
13:18 I mean, it's both, you know, when it all gets revealed, it's like, oh wow.
13:21 It's crazy looking, all this, like, I remember like the Bad Boy documentary on Apple,
13:26 that Diddy and Kim Porter produced.
13:30 And there were things in that documentary that I couldn't believe he left in.
13:34 Because I'm like, you produced this thing.
13:37 There's a part of the documentary where he says something to the effect of,
13:41 the only way people leave Bad Boy is like through Jesus or in the dirt.
13:47 And it's like, no one was like…
13:52 Everybody said, oh, cool.
13:52 You probably shouldn't say that, that sounds terrible.
13:54 There's a part where D-Dot's trying to convince an artist…
13:56 That's sociopath shit, man.
13:58 There's another part where D-Dot's trying to convince an artist to come perform at the
14:04 reunion show.
14:05 And the artist is like, I'm a changed man, I found God.
14:08 And he's like…
14:09 Wasn't that…
14:10 He's like, no, he's like, it doesn't matter if you found God.
14:12 Like, Diddy wants you there.
14:13 And he's like…
14:13 Wasn't that Craig Mack?
14:14 Yeah, it was Craig Mack.
14:14 Yeah, Craig Mack.
14:15 RIP.
14:16 He's like, I can't do that, you know, I found God.
14:19 And D-Dot's like, God will forgive you.
14:24 And it's like, looking back at all these things, it's like…
14:27 I know he hasn't been charged with anything.
14:32 No.
14:32 But yeah, it's all…
14:36 I believe in everything.
14:36 I believe everything.
14:38 It's pretty damning.
14:38 It's tough not to believe everything that is alleged.
14:41 Yeah.
14:42 Which…
14:43 Yeah.
14:45 Yeah.
14:45 Well, let's go to a lighter subject.
14:49 It may be lighter, you know, for me, but I'm still gonna get in this bag real quick because…
14:55 Apple!
14:56 Oh, no.
14:57 Okay.
14:58 Put out their what?
15:00 Greatest 100 albums of all time.
15:02 They finally whittled it down to the top 10.
15:06 We'll give you guys the notable R&B/Hip-Hop picks.
15:10 This was not just R&B and Hip-Hop.
15:15 Oh, yeah.
15:15 This was all…
15:16 This was 100 albums.
15:17 All genres involved.
15:18 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:19 Every genre imaginable.
15:21 I'm just…
15:22 I could give them the straight rundown, actually.
15:24 I'll do that.
15:25 Yeah, just do the top 10 as it is.
15:27 So, number 10, Beyoncé, "Lemonade."
15:30 Number 9, Nirvana, "Nevermind."
15:31 Number 8, Amy Winehouse, "Back to Black."
15:33 7, Kendrick Lamar, "Good Kid, Mad City."
15:36 6, Stevie Wonder, "Songs in the Key of Life."
15:39 5, Frank Ocean, "Blonde."
15:41 4, Prince and the Revolution, "Purple Rain."
15:43 3, The Beatles, "Abbey Road."
15:44 2, Thriller, Michael Jackson.
15:47 And number 1, Lauryn Hill, "The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill."
15:51 Who wants to go first?
15:52 I'll just say that, one, it's crazy that…
15:58 And I don't know, I have to go back and read this.
16:02 Did they say that there are any parameters that they're keeping these picks within?
16:08 You know what's so crazy when it comes to these lists?
16:10 Cats, especially on social media, they never say what the criteria or the parameters are.
16:15 Right.
16:15 They're just like, "Here's the fucking list."
16:17 Because as people who make lists, the criteria and the parameters are very important.
16:21 We put that in the intro.
16:22 Yeah.
16:22 But internally, when we're coming up with these things, it's like,
16:25 when we're making these picks, everything has to be run through this filter or this lens.
16:32 It's tough for me to…
16:34 Well, see, I'm saying, sorry, it seems like it's Apple Music's editorial team,
16:40 plus they had some artists and industry professionals.
16:43 I'm not sure how many, of course.
16:44 Is there a cutoff year? Is there since Apple Music has existed?
16:49 I mean, it's definitely older.
16:50 If you're going back to The Beatles.
16:52 Yeah.
16:52 The Beatles, I saw Aretha Franklin was on there, so it's probably rock and roll era, 1950s.
16:58 Interesting.
17:00 To me, Songs on the Key of Life is one of the best albums ever made by anybody.
17:04 It's tough for me to believe that anything besides Thriller is in the same category as
17:11 Songs on the Key of Life, so that was a weird standout to me.
17:16 I love Lauryn Hill.
17:17 I bought that album three times.
17:21 I bought it once, I bought it twice for my sister.
17:24 I bought it once on cassette tape for her and once on CD, and I bought it for myself on CD.
17:29 That album's not better than Songs on the Key of Life.
17:31 That album's not better than Thriller.
17:34 It's tough for me to believe that a group of people came together
17:40 and said, "This is the best musical product ever."
17:46 Ever.
17:48 Yeah.
17:49 Regardless of genre.
17:51 But, okay, so you're saying Thriller, Songs on the Key,
17:54 so you think Lauryn should be five instead of one?
17:57 One is a big thing.
18:01 I would still just love to know the criteria.
18:03 That's the thing that trips me up.
18:05 I mean, I'm sure it's just best.
18:08 Best, okay.
18:09 I mean, it is best.
18:10 If it's best, then I say I disagree.
18:12 Songs on the Key of Life is-
18:15 But it's not out of pocket.
18:18 To be in the top 15?
18:21 No.
18:21 There are plenty of other worst number one choices.
18:25 I feel like-
18:27 It's not blasphemous.
18:29 Well, I just feel like a lot of...
18:30 Because I remember when NPR did their...
18:32 I think they did a list a couple years ago of the 100 best albums by women.
18:35 Laur was number one.
18:37 I mean, so the critical sort of list favor for this album is very strong.
18:43 And I think it usually goes down as a pretty consensus pick to be
18:46 certainly a top 10 on most people's list, probably a top five.
18:50 It feels very safe.
18:52 That's what I was going to say.
18:52 It feels very safe.
18:53 It feels like an album that a lot of people, their knee-jerk reaction is, "Yeah, this album's
18:58 amazing," and Lauryn Hill's is amazing, which she is, and the album is amazing.
19:03 It's an amazing album.
19:04 But at that level, we're talking about of all time.
19:08 So in reality, every album on that list should be amazing.
19:12 All 100 albums should be perfect, like damn near perfect to somebody.
19:20 And as much as I love that album, that album is not...
19:24 That's not a perfect album.
19:26 There are, especially if you talk about the context of it, right?
19:29 The fact that people came out later and were like, "Lauryn stole my credits.
19:33 She did not produce that album by herself."
19:35 She still can't even perform the original live.
19:36 There's a lot that goes into the decision making there that is very puzzling to me.
19:42 And yeah, I'll just leave it at that.
19:46 I'll say that to me, "Songs in the Key of Life" is the best album.
19:51 If we had to pick one from that 10, I would go with "Songs in the Key of Life."
19:56 I'm a bit calmer now, in the sense that when I saw the list this morning, I was pissed, man.
20:04 Because I was pissed, but I was glad, because it's a full circle moment for Cardi B.
20:10 And it gives her a roadmap.
20:13 Got an issue.
20:14 It gives her a roadmap.
20:14 You had to bring in Cardi B.
20:16 It gives her a roadmap and a blueprint.
20:18 I'm going to tell you.
20:18 Yeah, let me listen.
20:20 Because again, Lauryn Hill has released one fucking album.
20:25 Two albums.
20:26 One solo album.
20:28 She has an unplugged album.
20:30 One studio album.
20:31 I'm not going to fuck out an album.
20:33 Unplugged is fire.
20:33 It's fire.
20:34 It's fire.
20:34 What are you talking about?
20:35 I'm going to include the unplugged album.
20:36 You just said it's fire.
20:37 Okay, we'll say one studio album.
20:38 She has two albums.
20:40 One studio album.
20:40 Thank you.
20:40 One studio album.
20:41 I love unplugged, by the way.
20:42 Cardi don't even have a unplugged.
20:45 Not yet.
20:45 But the point I'm trying to make is-
20:50 Yo, that Cardi B unplugged.
20:51 I'm just trying to-
20:52 Cardi B, now we fucking fired.
20:53 Now we fucking fired.
20:55 The shit that Lauryn has been able to get away with for 25 years because of one fucking album.
21:03 Great album, though.
21:04 So-
21:05 Just saying.
21:06 But do you see-
21:07 The same shit with Frank Ocean.
21:09 What did it block him at?
21:10 2015?
21:10 16.
21:11 16?
21:11 16.
21:12 That brother hasn't dropped since.
21:14 I don't put Frank in the same bucket as Lauryn.
21:18 But listen, these kind of lists, they emboldened.
21:21 They make artists be like, "You know what?
21:22 I ain't got to do shit."
21:24 But 25 years and she ain't put-
21:26 She said maybe last week because she was with her son, "Maybe I might drop a second album."
21:31 25 years later!
21:32 25 years later, you see how problematic these lists can be now?
21:37 So I'm sorry.
21:38 I don't-
21:38 All right, go ahead, Trevor.
21:39 Your complaint is that, first of all, Lauryn Hill got a-
21:44 Like, robbed the bank and nobody-
21:47 Like, if she puts out this album and people like it,
21:50 enough to where they'll pay to see it on the 10th tour-
21:52 25 years.
21:52 The 20th.
21:53 The 20th.
21:54 I'm not knocking it.
21:54 I'm not knocking it.
21:55 But it sounds like you-
21:56 I'm not knocking it.
21:57 I'm just saying-
21:57 Why the take back?
21:58 Because it sounds like you was knocking it.
21:59 All I'm saying is, Cats can't complain why somebody like Lauryn or Frank does not drop
22:05 regularly because-
22:06 Why not?
22:07 Because we-
22:09 Bro, we pedestalized them so much-
22:11 To this point-
22:11 We do what?
22:12 We put them on a pedestal-
22:13 That's not a word.
22:14 But I'm not-
22:15 It was a word today!
22:16 We put them on a P-D-E-Live.
22:18 Just because you say this album is amazing.
22:20 P-E-D-Live.
22:21 We put them on a pedestal to where Cats don't feel like they gotta drop regularly anymore.
22:26 You're calling this album-
22:27 Yo!
22:28 Fuck it!
22:29 Why do I need to put out music?
22:30 Why do I need to put out music?
22:32 That's like saying like when-
22:34 There was a period of time where Stevie was winning-
22:37 He won-
22:37 He was nominated-
22:39 3 out of 4 album of the year.
22:40 Album of the year.
22:41 Three years in a row.
22:43 Stevie ain't number one.
22:43 There was like-
22:44 I forgot-
22:44 3 out of 4.
22:46 I forgot who the artist was.
22:47 I forgot who the artist was.
22:48 The one who at the end of that speech, in the year that he didn't win, he was like,
22:52 "Thanks Stevie Wonder for not putting out an album."
22:54 Amazing.
22:54 And then Stevie came back the next year and won.
22:56 And then guess what?
22:56 That right there-
22:58 Stevie ain't number one.
22:59 But this- I'm talking about this is back in the 70s when he's like on top of the world.
23:04 He's murdering everything, killing it, dropping fire album after fire album after fire album.
23:11 He doesn't drop one year.
23:13 Paul Simon wins.
23:16 And he says what?
23:18 He says, "Thank you."
23:18 Yeah.
23:19 The whole industry took notice.
23:20 He's like, "If Stevie wanted this, Stevie could have had it."
23:24 And Stevie said, "I'm gonna sit back."
23:26 And then he went right back to the studio and was like, "Here's another one."
23:29 But guess what?
23:30 New artists out there, listen, follow the Lauryn Hill route.
23:35 Follow the Frank Ocean route.
23:37 But let's-
23:38 Wait, no.
23:39 Follow the Prince and the Stevie Wonder route.
23:43 But let's also pause and say-
23:44 Look, what you're saying is not easy.
23:48 Absolutely not.
23:48 You're telling all these-
23:49 No, no, no.
23:50 Follow the Lauryn Hill route.
23:51 I'm gonna say this-
23:52 Go make a classic record.
23:53 Exactly.
23:53 Exactly.
23:54 No, no, no.
23:54 Go make an album.
23:54 You put all your energy-
23:55 Go make an album of the year winning, genre defying album.
23:59 You put all your energy-
23:59 And just go do that.
24:01 You put all your energy-
24:02 That's all you gotta do, and you can chill.
24:03 You put all of your energy-
24:04 Then you can drop loosies and features.
24:05 You put all of your energy into that debut album and look at the fucking success and the rewards out of it.
24:12 25 years later, I could still perform.
24:16 I don't even gotta perform the actual tracks.
24:18 I'll give you some rendition and shit because I'll get sued if I actually try to do the original tracks.
24:24 And y'all still will fucking come to the concert.
24:27 To Trevor's point, I think-
24:28 I could come late.
24:29 I could come late as hell.
24:30 Time out.
24:31 I gotta say this.
24:31 But actually, people are mad at her for coming late to these shows.
24:34 They're not, man.
24:35 Yes, they are.
24:36 Anybody like, "Oh yeah, Lauryn, let's go."
24:39 I'm saying when they get on stage, they hear Bob and they be like, "Yo, that show was kinda-"
24:43 Last year, what was it with the Fugees, right?
24:44 The Fugees-
24:46 The reunion tour.
24:46 They didn't even do the whole tour.
24:47 Yeah, that was-
24:48 Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
24:49 Like, "Hey, it was still sold out. I saw it on Boxscore. It's still top 25, you know what I'm saying?"
24:56 But you're missing the part where these people make genre, as Trevor said, genre-defining music.
25:03 These people made amazing, amazing albums.
25:07 So guess what? I hear you, and that's why Frank Ocean got away with a bullshit performance at Coachella.
25:11 Hey, I'm not-
25:13 Did he get away?
25:13 "Clear, he's number five on the music."
25:18 Those things have nothing to do with one another.
25:19 Those things have nothing to do with one another.
25:22 He's still revered.
25:23 His album is revered.
25:24 The album is revered.
25:25 You can't-
25:26 Listen, I don't think-
25:27 God forbid, when you cross-call Lamar and Clear, you are dead.
25:31 Everything you did, your family, everything is like-
25:35 God forbid.
25:36 Frank Ocean was to pass today.
25:37 What the-
25:38 He's going to be etched-
25:39 How the fuck did he get here?
25:39 He's going to be etched as an all-time GOAT.
25:44 Off of what? Two projects?
25:46 He's not going to be in the same category as Prince.
25:48 Well, Frank will definitely-
25:51 He's not.
25:51 I mean, Frank-
25:52 To us, the new kids, remember, you got kids saying Playboi Carti's a GOAT right now.
25:56 Bro.
25:57 This is a lot of hedging in this conversation.
26:00 I'm just saying, bro, you talk about future March Madness-
26:04 Yeah.
26:04 Being an all-time thing, which we're going to get into.
26:06 Kids don't embrace that.
26:07 The kids, nah, they're not going to embrace Prince.
26:10 But the kids don't embrace anything that-
26:12 But I'm just saying, you know-
26:13 Yeah, I'm saying-
26:14 Time changes everything, man.
26:16 I think that there's-
26:17 You say time changes everything.
26:18 We sound very old talking about the kids.
26:19 Yeah, there's-
26:20 Time changes everything.
26:21 The kids don't like what adults like.
26:23 That's just the fact of life.
26:24 But there is a world in which Lauryn Hill, when it's all said and done,
26:34 has an amazing album.
26:35 But is she in the same category as Aretha Franklin?
26:41 Is she in the same category as-
26:43 So you're saying the album-
26:45 I think the subject-
26:46 Of course, tops a lot of album lists.
26:48 The catalog's limited to where she can necessarily-
26:51 The catalog?
26:51 Does the career-
26:51 You think of best artists of all time because there really was no-
26:55 I don't think so.
26:56 Switch up, no chance, you know.
26:57 I think if they were to do artists, I don't think she would be up there.
27:04 I don't think Lauryn gives a shit.
27:05 Well, that's a whole different conversation.
27:07 I'm just saying, I'm not giving a shit about the number one album.
27:10 She was out there also, you know.
27:12 I mean, they brought it to her, shit, I went too.
27:14 I'd be out there choosing too.
27:16 All I'm going to say, Cardi, this gives you hope, baby.
27:18 Oh my god.
27:18 Because you know what this is?
27:19 He's all this just to-
27:20 In 10, 15 years, when we do it, when there's another list that comes out
27:23 and you're able to sit with Invasion, because what, we on what, year six?
27:29 I cannot believe all of this is over Invasion of Privacy.
27:31 Every 16 years, you know, we'll see what the standing of that album.
27:37 But you're acting like people are saying Invasion is not like-
27:40 No, no, no, but I'm saying it's going to climb that.
27:42 Same way how Miseducation, after some time, you know, the value went up.
27:46 So why does that give Cardi hope?
27:47 She don't got to do shit.
27:49 She don't got to do shit, just show up.
27:50 This is insane.
27:51 Just show up.
27:52 This is an insane argument.
27:53 Just show up, that's all I'm saying.
27:54 I wish you could pull up the photo of Lauryn Hill at the Grammys with the art full of the trophies.
27:59 Lauryn Hill, what's it saying?
28:02 Lauryn Hill crawled.
28:03 So Cardi B could walk.
28:05 Oh my God.
28:06 That's all I'm saying.
28:07 Oh my God.
28:08 That's all I'm saying.
28:09 Oh my God.
28:10 I love Miseducation, by the way.
28:13 Skits, some of my favorite skits of all time, man.
28:16 You know?
28:17 Some of your favorite skits?
28:19 Yeah.
28:19 That's why you like it?
28:20 I thought it was genius, the storytelling.
28:22 I mean, yeah, but what about the songs?
28:24 We're going to go out on the streets with a camera, a camera and a microphone.
28:28 All of us.
28:29 And we're going to ask people.
28:31 Of all ages.
28:33 We're going to ask people, because we're right across the street from the library.
28:36 Of all ages.
28:36 Mad people, mad tourists from all over the world here.
28:39 We're going to-
28:39 Do a poll.
28:41 One episode, we're going to go outside, we're going to ask people, what are your thoughts
28:45 on Cardi B's debut album, Invasion of Privacy?
28:48 I'm sure 97% will be good.
28:51 97% will be good.
28:52 I cannot wait to hear what people say.
28:54 If y'all were at the, real quick before we jump to the next topic, if y'all were at the
28:59 MSG show last night, the Megan Thee Stallion show at the Garden.
29:02 We're on it.
29:03 Yeah, let us know.
29:04 What a fucking moment.
29:06 And I will say this, you brought out Cardi B, the pop.
29:09 I'm sure.
29:09 I've had people text me and say, "Yo, bro, I ain't going to watch you.
29:13 We need another album."
29:13 That pop set it all.
29:15 And she was so fucking off beat.
29:16 So fucking off beat.
29:19 Cass ain't care.
29:22 I ain't care.
29:23 I think you're conflating a number of points to make an argument that Cardi B doesn't have
29:27 to release another album.
29:28 But we will get back to that.
29:30 We'll get to that.
29:30 Because we're going to have an entire episode dedicated just to that.
29:35 I'm going to tell Cardi to come to Billboard, I feel it.
29:37 Yo, come through, Cardi.
29:38 Please, come through.
29:39 Please.
29:40 We your biggest supporters.
29:42 Karl is your biggest supporter.
29:44 I like you.
29:46 They trying to clean it up, but Karl is your biggest supporter.
29:51 They trying to clean it up.
29:52 You know what?
29:52 Just shout out.
29:54 Yeah, just.
29:55 So continuing with List Week, Spotify released their 100 greatest rap songs of the streaming
30:00 era.
30:00 We'll go through the top 10.
30:02 The streaming era is when to when now?
30:04 20, I would say 2015.
30:06 I think 2015 is the general kind of accepted start of it.
30:08 Yeah.
30:09 It's 2015 to present.
30:10 Obviously, streaming was around a couple years before that.
30:12 But I think for most people, that's kind of when it started to take hold.
30:15 Yeah.
30:15 Like 2015, 16, kind of.
30:17 Well, I guess it has to be 2015 because, spoiler, what's coming up?
30:21 Yeah.
30:21 All right.
30:22 So we'll start with the top 10.
30:23 10 through one, work our way down.
30:26 These are all rap?
30:27 All rap.
30:28 OK.
30:28 Juice WRLD, Lucid Dreams, Pop Smoke, Dior, Sheck Wes, Mbamba, 8, 7 Travis Scott, Sickle
30:37 Mode, 6, Migos, Bad and Boujee, 5, Future, March Madness, 4, Lil Uzi Vert, XO Tour Life,
30:42 3, Drake, God's Plan, 2, Cardi B, Bodak, Yellow, Kendrick Lamar, number one with Fall
30:49 Right.
30:50 Thoughts?
30:51 I think you give your thoughts because you--
30:53 Yeah, no.
30:54 Because you talk about--
30:55 I mean, I don't want to just make this a Cardi episode, you know what I'm saying?
30:58 But--
30:59 You think it was Cardi Rob?
31:00 No, I wouldn't give Cardi one.
31:03 I probably would go with--
31:05 I thought XO Tour Life was really a moment.
31:10 And I think it was like the apex of the SoundCloud era.
31:13 Yeah.
31:14 You know, because the SoundCloud generation, man, that was a moment of R.I.P.
31:18 XXXTENTACION.
31:18 R.I.P. XXXTENTACION, Juice WRLD.
31:22 Kodak Black.
31:24 Kodak Black, Trippie Redd.
31:25 Yeah.
31:26 And that song itself was really the pinnacle in the heart of what that whole era was really
31:32 made of.
31:33 Well, talking about the streaming era, I have to read what they wrote.
31:36 And shout out to Carl, amazing dude.
31:40 Great dude.
31:42 Cherry, by the way.
31:44 Cherry, not this Carl.
31:46 Good brother, though.
31:48 He-- I know he's worked really hard on this, and he's been doing this thing over there.
31:54 When I think about eras, I think about what defines the era, not in terms of the music,
32:01 but what does this mean for the product that was created by the artists who were involved
32:07 in it.
32:08 For me-- and I'd love to hear your guys' opinion on this-- the streaming era, to me,
32:12 is defined by an explosion in access.
32:17 So a number of artists were able to produce things and distribute things in a way that
32:25 they weren't before.
32:25 We were able to have access to things in a way that we weren't before.
32:29 There were new mechanisms for people to get that music.
32:33 So I think of Spotify's Rap Caviar, all these playlists that allowed people to more easily
32:41 digest the music.
32:43 It took over radio.
32:45 So when I think about that, yeah, I think about Exo Tour Life, because I think about
32:50 mixtapes kind of going away, even though they're still there.
32:53 But the idea of them just being completely digital, ephemeral, just streaming completely.
33:00 You brought up SoundCloud, the idea of these artists uploading things themselves, blowing
33:07 up like Juice WRLD, and then figuring out the back end and the business afterwards.
33:13 A lot of those guys did that.
33:15 So to me, thinking about that and what all that entailed, yeah, I'd probably go with
33:21 Exo or I would say March Madness, just because I just remember that song being everywhere.
33:27 That was the era in which future became future.
33:32 That was that beast mode.
33:35 That was that mixtape era.
33:36 Yeah.
33:37 I also think God's Plan was just a monster of a song.
33:40 God comes off of a beef.
33:46 Everyone thinks his career is dead.
33:48 He drops the biggest song of his life.
33:50 That was everywhere.
33:51 So yeah, I think I would go with Exo if I had to pick one.
33:55 But All Right was definitely a moment.
33:58 It was the world, well, the country seemed to be on fire.
34:03 Kendrick drops this album that everyone is kind of perplexed by, but interested in, intrigued
34:09 by, and then nestled in there, he has this really bright gem of a song that is radio
34:19 ready, but still combative in the way that people needed it to be, spoke directly to
34:24 the top.
34:25 Everyone's like, "No one makes music anymore that speaks about what's happening."
34:28 And Kendrick was like, "Here you go.
34:29 Here's a protest song."
34:32 So not mad at it, but I think I would probably go Exo.
34:37 Okay.
34:37 Trub?
34:39 I don't know if I have necessarily a pick that I think would be the best one, but I
34:46 do actually, I was thinking about your point that it's interesting for me that a lot of
34:50 these songs are the breakthrough or debut songs for a lot of these artists, because
34:53 it does feel like, I think exactly to that point about the streaming era opening the
34:59 gates and sort of democratizing things in a way that people were really hoping would
35:03 happen.
35:04 We kind of saw it a little bit in maybe the Crank That kind of era or something, but it
35:08 really took hold obviously with SoundCloud, with some of the, I mean, obviously now it's
35:12 through TikTok and all these kinds of things where, whether it was a dance challenge, whether
35:16 it was some viral meme, I remember first watching it on the charts, of course, it's like, I
35:21 felt like every two months, some sort of random rap song, whether it was Panda or Juju on
35:27 that beat or-
35:28 Oh, Panda.
35:29 ... you know, Lucid Dreams or something like this where it's like, "Wait, who is, okay,
35:33 who is this?
35:33 Where are they coming from?
35:34 What's going on here?"
35:35 So the fact that that stuff was not only able to resonate just for those artists, but really
35:39 go global, I think is one of the craziest changes that we've seen come out of the streaming
35:44 era.
35:44 Right.
35:45 And then you have, of course, like Lucid Dreams, you have Bodak Yellow.
35:47 I remember Bodak Yellow was one of those few times that I guess I felt like a lot of people
35:53 I knew, and people who don't even really watch charts like that, they were very interested
35:58 like, "Can Cardi really do this?
36:00 Can this love in hip hop, she has this song, it's kind of bubbling."
36:04 And you hear it, it's such a People's Champ kind of record.
36:06 It's kind of like what happened with Kendrick and I Like Us, where people were like, "This
36:10 is really going to happen."
36:12 The way the chart and just the culture discussion intersected in that kind of week was absolutely
36:17 crazy.
36:17 I remember being in an edit meeting and when I announced like, "Oh, Cardi's going to be
36:21 number one, Bodak Yellow this week," people clapped.
36:23 They were really just like, "We did it."
36:27 And it's like, "Wow."
36:29 "We did it, Drew."
36:30 I mean, really had that kind of feel.
36:31 She did it, B.
36:32 Everybody was really rooting for this thing to go all the way.
36:35 I think that list is probably, I mean, honestly, God's Plan is probably the one that kind of
36:41 made me go, "Hmm," for a minute because I don't know if it's really among, I don't know,
36:46 Drake fans, even casual Drake listeners, I'm not sure that's people's favorite Drake song.
36:52 Obviously, I don't know if it's because it's set up that year because that 2018, we know
36:57 was just-
36:57 That was a run.
36:57 I mean, absolutely one of the biggest years that anyone's ever had in terms of streams,
37:01 charts, album discussion.
37:03 You had that come, "Nice For What," "In My Feelings," all the other random.
37:08 We were talking about "Yes, Indeed," "Look Alive."
37:13 I mean, all those things that we almost forget.
37:15 Those were massive hits and it's like they weren't even the top five songs they had that
37:20 year.
37:20 So that one kind of threw me for a little bit.
37:22 And then, yeah, I do think the point about "Alright" is probably, but of course, what
37:28 Kendrick means to this era is obviously he's so intertwined with the past 10 years of music.
37:34 I think back to that Grammy performance where it was the sort of prison-
37:39 Yeah, that was good.
37:41 And especially at a time when I think a lot of people think that there's no real live
37:44 performances, award shows don't have that kind of moment.
37:46 And I know it wasn't in the past three or four years, but that's one of the ones in
37:49 the past 10 years where it's like, "Oh yeah, I remember he did something with that and
37:54 he took that song to a new level."
37:56 And if you wanted to try to pretend like it's not really about, it's just about feeling
37:59 good and everybody's like, "No, this is what this song is about."
38:01 We're all gonna be alright.
38:02 We're like, "No, no, no, no, no."
38:03 We're not gentrifying alright.
38:05 Can I pose you guys this question?
38:07 Because I do think of the streaming era, as you guys were both saying, as where the focus
38:14 and the emphasis really was on singles, hence why the playlists are booming the way they
38:20 are.
38:21 Because of these singles booming, has that affected the overall quality in how artists
38:27 view projects today?
38:30 Probably.
38:32 Probably.
38:33 I think Drake and Kendrick, out of that list, are probably the two most traditional artists.
38:44 Could have Future in there.
38:45 Yeah, and Future.
38:46 I think there's a new age of artists who don't look at albums in quite the same way that
38:55 we did.
38:55 Don't look at them as a singular thought in the way that we're used to experiencing them.
39:04 You see, I think, a whole lot of Red.
39:09 It's an album by name, but what is that?
39:16 What conjoins all of these songs?
39:20 I have no idea.
39:22 I like a lot of them, but what's the thing that holds it together outside of it just
39:29 being released together at the same time?
39:32 I don't know if they think of albums in that way.
39:36 Also, you can have a career, as we've seen, with just a song.
39:41 You don't need to have that album anymore.
39:43 You can just have that one fire record that just catapults you, and then you make a couple
39:51 more songs so you can perform something when you go on the Rolling Loud stage, and then
39:56 that's it.
39:57 It's a little nine minute set.
39:59 I think to that same point.
40:02 One of the nice things about singles is that they're able to react so quickly.
40:05 You see artists nowadays, they can make a single in three days.
40:10 Clearly, what we saw with Kendrick and Drake, and of course, I know everybody got that kind
40:14 of infrastructure, but it's way more accessible than it ever was before.
40:18 It's funny, I think on the flip side, the talk so much about albums, and as soon as
40:24 somebody puts out a single, the first question, "Okay, where's the project?
40:27 Where's the full thing?"
40:28 I think we put so much more pressure on, "You better come with a good album," because, "Hey,
40:35 we're here today, but we ain't gotta be here tomorrow."
40:38 "Oh, I like this song."
40:39 It's almost like we expect that people can't follow up in a weird way.
40:43 We want them to, I think, especially, I'm not saying people root against them, but it's
40:48 almost like the default is, "But I just don't..."
40:50 I won't be surprised when this album comes out and it's not gonna happen.
40:54 I think because we see so many.
40:55 To your earlier point, we see so many new artists now that pop up out of nowhere.
40:58 We have no idea where they came from, never heard of them before.
41:00 They were on the TikTok challenge, or they made a TikTok video, and now they're charting.
41:05 Our only barometer is, "Can you make an album?"
41:14 Or, "Is this a flute?"
41:16 Did you just luck into this kind of thing?
41:18 Yeah.
41:18 So that's our...
41:19 It's kind of like our defense mechanism to be like, "Before I become a fan of yours,
41:24 can you do this?
41:26 Wow.
41:26 Or are you just here for this thing?"
41:27 Yeah.
41:28 And part of that also is we put so much pressure on things like first week numbers and all
41:33 these kind of metrics that are quick to say, "Didn't work.
41:37 Didn't happen.
41:37 Knew it."
41:38 You know what's crazy though?
41:40 I think of somebody like Ice Spice, who's kind of just been doing her own thing with
41:44 the singles and the features.
41:45 I know she put out the EP, but it's almost been two years since she popped off and she's
41:51 have yet still to drop a debut album.
41:54 Crazy.
41:54 So just being able to turn out these kind of singles, these hit singles and features
42:01 with such regularity to high success, it's kind of like...
42:05 But even that is pretty rare.
42:08 Yeah, very rare.
42:09 Very rare.
42:09 That she is someone able to pump out top 10, top 20 singles pretty regularly.
42:15 And I think that sort of helps alleviate the worry about the album.
42:19 It's like, "Okay, her quality is pretty consistent.
42:22 We know she can..."
42:22 So there's no concern about like, "Oh, you're just going to be a one single artist and off
42:29 to the graveyard."
42:29 Dig it.
42:32 Well, guys, appreciate y'all for kicking it with us.
42:35 Join us next week for another fresh episode of Billboard Unfiltered.
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