Mark McMahon is joined by Jordan Cross to discuss the latest goings on at Fratton Park
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00:00Hello and welcome to this latest edition of Pompey Talk. My name is Martin McMahon and
00:06joining me today to discuss all the developments of Pompey is our sports writer, Jordan Cross.
00:12Jordy, welcome. Thanks for your time here. Let's get straight into it. There's a lot
00:18to talk about. Yeah, the retain list. What was your thoughts when it was released on
00:23Wednesday?
00:25It's every time the retain list comes out, it's a brutal time of year, isn't it? And
00:35particularly on this occasion, given off the back of the club's success, it's particularly
00:42jarring that on Sunday, these people are being feted, but quite rightly, for their outstanding
00:50achievements this season, they're heroes. Some of them will go on to be legends. We've
00:58got a hierarchy when we use these terms, haven't we, Mark? You've got your players, you've
01:03got your stars, then they become heroes. We try and differentiate between heroes and legends,
01:10which are the top 1%. You're Alan Knight, you're Jimmy Dickinson. So I think legends
01:17is often overused. But amid a championship winning team, I think we've got a couple of
01:25legends heading towards, between heroes and legends, I would say, in the scowl. And that
01:29being Marlon Pat, the captain, and Sean Raggett, the longest serving player, to come through
01:35such adversity and face the challenges he has at Pompey. And yeah, we all know what
01:44the punchline to that fantastic story is. So it was always going to be emotive. I think
01:49it's fair to say, I saw the terms brutal, people shocked, and people talking in those
01:57kind of terms in the aftermath of the release list coming, when was it, Wednesday evening.
02:06If you're fortunate enough to have some perspective on it, as we are, it's not quite as jarring,
02:12I think, in our hearts of hearts, we saw a lot of this coming. But there was still some one or
02:17two people going in I wasn't completely certain about. And so yeah, there's still one or two
02:23surprises. I think it's fair to say, and I totally understand why people would say they're shocked,
02:27people picking this up. I think we use shocked in our headline and some people say they weren't.
02:32I think, fair enough if you weren't, but there's certainly a lot of people that were and I think
02:36it was totally justified to use that kind of terminology because it is brutal. It's the
02:40reality of where they are. And what I said in the aftermath of that coming out was, it is
02:47desperately sad and disappointing to see some of these players go. But what it does do is speak
02:50about Pompey's ambition and what they think the requirement is now moving forward to raise the
02:55bar in terms of the quality of the squad in the championship. Yeah, no, definitely ambition is
03:01what comes out of it a lot of it, just what their plans are. We'll go into that in a bit. But Pompey
03:09were ruthless. There's no bones about it. They were ruthless here. Were you surprised just how
03:13ruthless it was? Burnham Alley, what, six members of that squad are definitely not going to be here.
03:19Joe Morrell and Zach Swanson makes it eight. That's a big chunk of your squad, isn't it?
03:26No, I think that John Massino, as he said himself, it's a hard time to go through his
03:33conversations, but it's very matter-of-fact about it, John. It's a necessary evil. It's
03:38something that needs to be done. And he knows about where he wants his club to go. The club
03:43wants to go in a direction headed, and it's a consequence of that. And was I surprised how
03:51ruthless? Not really. I mean, but just, you know, we're going to talk about the decisions. I think
03:57I thought Sean Raggett was coming. I think a lot of people thought that Sean Raggett was coming.
04:01Even himself, he went into it, as John said, with his eyes open and realising probably what was
04:06going to happen. I thought one of the right backs would be kept on. I wasn't quite sure which one
04:13it would be. I know there's that sort of situation with Zach that Swanson would go on, but I thought
04:17there'd be a certainty about one of those. There's certainly not that at the moment. And the one
04:23which we can get into a bit later, but on the surface of it,
04:27was Joe Morrell. I thought his option would be taken up. Now, there's some mitigating
04:33factors in that, and I understand, with a bit of context, why that would be the case. And I think
04:38that was the same for Joe as well. So we wait to see how those pan out. But they're the areas
04:45mainly. But I mean, I've said such a swinging amount. I don't think it was too many other huge
04:50surprises. Obviously, emotive stuff and people wanting Raggett to stay, Rafferty to stay.
04:56Etc. Thinking, you know, Joe Morrell, Swanson's options would be taken up. So, yeah, I can see
05:02why there were surprises there. And I don't forget some of the youngsters as well. You've
05:04got Haji Minoga, lots of that as well. Harry Duke-Wright, Josh Dockery, incredibly unfortunate
05:10young lad to get his contract and get injured. But it's, as I say, just underline the ambition.
05:17And they've got to be fair about where the club are going and the realism about these people
05:22being involved moving forward. The two that stood out then, we've already touched on,
05:27were Sean Raggett and Joe Rafferty. Do you think they could have done a job in the Championship?
05:33Would they have been happy that maybe it'd been, say, second choice to maybe, yeah, I know Raggett
05:39played second choice to Regan Poole, not flat this season to his injury. But would they have
05:44been satisfied with playing that? Their kind of overthrowing role? Is that part of the decision
05:49making process? Possibly. You know, Rafferty's operated in the Championship. Could he do it
05:55now? I think he'd probably argue he could. But I think maybe that's where there's a slight
06:01disparate assessment between the club and him. I think people might be looking to improve
06:07themselves and looking for a bit more dynamism down that right flank moving forward. Sean Raggett,
06:14until he was given the chance, you won't know. But I think what Sean Raggett is,
06:18is an ounce you won't get better at League One level. And he's shown that. He's just been
06:25absolutely phenomenal and continuing proving people wrong. And I've written about it so many
06:29times over the years. I remember getting that flak and I was kind of going out on a limb and
06:32getting flak myself for backing Sean Raggett a few years ago because he's not everyone's cup of tea
06:37on the ball. But Pompey have a defined idea of where they want to go in terms of the way they're
06:42playing. They've got four contracted centre-backs who, if you look at their profiles, are very
06:45different to Sean. And it's going to be probably factoring clearly into the thinking about what
06:54happened there. Obviously, you know, these are everyone's love and appreciation of it.
07:00But I can see that. I think they could probably, both personally, think they have
07:05belief they could do it. Hopefully that's a motivation for them moving forward to prove
07:10Pompey's assessment that they can't, which is ultimately what's being said there. Prove that
07:15wrong. There will not be players who won't be short of offers, but I think that's a fair thing
07:21to say, won't it? Both of them will be in demand this summer. I think it's almost, you can almost
07:27go as far as saying that Sean Raggett could be the free agent at League One level. And, you know,
07:34he would be the ultimate. Joe Morrell as well. I mean, they're all going to be coming from Pompey
07:39the way they are. Joe Rafferty, they're all outstanding free agents and a consequence of
07:45Pompey stepping up. What it does do, and I think this gave some solace to the, you know, over the
07:52decision making process. I think there's probably a belief that Sean Raggett could go and get a
07:56three or four year contract somewhere. A very good club next season. Joe Rafferty won't be
08:03short of options. I can think of some clubs, you know, the rumours are going around already,
08:07there's some big clubs stepping up into League One with big budgets, you know, big profile clubs,
08:13shall we say, without naming names, and some clubs with ability to spend, not just one of them,
08:21there's going to be a couple that might be looking to splash cash and be amongst even the bigger
08:27budgets at League One level next season. These are the sort of people, players that can hopefully get
08:33themselves set up quite nicely off the back of, you know, being able to get a new club this summer.
08:40We probably could have dedicated this whole episode to Sean Raggett and Joe Rafferty League
08:45in all honesty, but time is obviously critical for us, so we need to move on. What about Joe
08:51Morrell and Zach Swanson, that situation there? Pompey obviously had options in both of them,
08:57and turned those options down. What's your reading into that, or what is the
09:02general consensus to that there, Tactic? Well, if you start with Joe, Joe was the one that,
09:10as I say, probably if I had to pick one that was the most, you know, eyebrow-raising decision
09:16it would have been Joe, because I think, you know, he's an international footballer who's
09:20shown he can operate at the, you know, the very highest level, so I know he's had the
09:25Championship, but not have been a problem for Joe. I don't think that's argued by Pompey either,
09:30I think they know he could definitely operate at the Championship, and I think there's hope that
09:35he still could, he still could as a Pompey player next season, but Pompey have to kind of,
09:42when they're looking at where they're going, what they have available in terms of the transfer and
09:48playing budget kitty, they have to look about what they've got, what they want, and get as
09:54much value as they can, or perhaps it's maybe Pompey looking at maybe getting a little bit more
10:01value, bang for their buck, maybe that's perhaps more reading of that situation,
10:08there's no doubt about what Joe Morrell can do, so that would be, yeah, looking at,
10:14they've got to protect the club, the player's got to protect his side, and yeah, and it's got to,
10:20I think the phrase would be, you know, right for all parties, I think was John Massino's phrase,
10:24so that's that one. Zac Swanson, it's pretty clear to me, and you know, I'm not portraying,
10:30you know, John Massino, I think, I've just written a story sort of saying he's a Championship
10:35performer, you know, Championship potential, you've got Championship quality, we all know the
10:41problem with, and question mark over Zac Swanson is the injury problems he's had, I think he's had
10:4740 appearances, a lot fewer starts in two years at Pompey, yeah, that's not all down to
10:55injuries, by the way, that's, you know, him fitting in and obviously the form of Joe Rafferty as well,
11:00but he's had two missed, you know, three months in two seasons now, each season, so a total of six
11:06months with this groin issue that's hampered him, when he's come back in, I mean, I always
11:14seem to be giving Zac Swanson man the match when he plays. Forrest Green, he came in, you know,
11:22plenty of occasions, so I don't think anyone's, you know, doubting what Zac can do, and again,
11:28remember Zac Swanson before Massino came in at Spurs in the FA Cup, outstanding display there,
11:34and obviously, you know, as a lad coming from Arsenal, would have been under the spotlight
11:37there and thrived in that situation, so no one, no one, least of all John Massino, is doubting
11:43what Zac Swanson can do. It's just trying to potentially look at protecting the club's
11:49corner, I guess, because of the injury issues and maybe structuring a deal with that in mind,
11:55I think that's pretty clear for all to see for Zac. For me, his perspective, he can, you know,
12:01he's a good player, good young player that a lot of clubs will be interested in and Pompey know
12:04that they're, the same with morale, that there's going to be, particularly morale, I bet he can get
12:09some big offers, you know, really big offers at the top end of League One, that they're going to
12:13have people that are interested in them, so it's whether they can come to an agreement about how
12:18much being a part of the championship journey with Pompey factors into it, or them setting
12:24themselves up with some decent deals elsewhere. At the minute, I'm sort of thinking, and Terry
12:30Devlin isn't a right back by any stats, at the minute, Terry Devlin would be Pompey's only right
12:35back option. Does that make that decision even slightly more bizarre? I don't want to use the
12:40word bizarre, but Birmingham, they're getting rid of two right backs. Finding one right back this
12:45season to compete at the championship level would have been tough. Finding two is going to be even
12:49tougher, isn't it? Yeah, well, look at left back, I mean, I saw it sort of broadly, is that that
12:56maybe, obviously, but Conor Ogilvie's wanted, they've offered a new contract, got Jack Sparks
13:01there. Now, I see Pompey going out and getting another left back, and ultimately, probably,
13:08we'll see how it goes in pre-season, but one of those two competing, and maybe one of those
13:15moving out on loan in the longer term. So, yeah, and you look at profiles, don't you?
13:22Save it was Conor Ogilvie that was kind of preferred over the two. He's a robust defender
13:28that defends more, can get up and down, but he would then pair him with someone like a flying
13:32machine, wouldn't you, that you try and recruit. So, again, that's what I thought Pompey would
13:37like to do. They say they kept Joe Rafferty more of the sort of robust, you know, not quite as
13:42quick as some of the options that you can get in full back or wing back positions, and going out
13:47and doing, getting, recruiting a young, exciting player in that department. So, that's how I
13:54thought it would go, and perhaps that, yeah, that's, that's how I thought, you know, certainly
13:58it was going to be the pitcher left back, for example.
14:02How do you see the morale, the Swanson situation,
14:04concluding? Are you anticipating both of them being there next season?
14:08Oh, God, I've put you on the spot. Do I just say what I really feel here, or do I just
14:18with a, yeah, politician's answer? I think that Zach Swanson, in my heart of hearts,
14:23I think that Zach would more than likely go elsewhere. Joe, morale, with what he could
14:33earn, yeah, that's, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if neither of them are here next season,
14:40if I'm honest. I mean, to not, to not take up options, and then, you know, to renegotiate
14:45how they'd feel about that, and what they've got available to them. Yeah, I think that,
14:51yeah, that obviously puts a big question mark over them. Joe, you know, we'll see what happens
14:56with that one a bit more so, because obviously, he can perform a championship, they both can
15:02perform a championship level. But yeah, just trying to get a bit more of a hang on,
15:06read on Joe, and I can totally commit to that one. But yeah, probably gun to my head. I think
15:11you know, when that situation evolves like that, it's probably a good chance that players move on.
15:17Right, fair enough, yeah. Well, quickly on then, Lee Evans, again, were you surprised by that,
15:23there? Evans showed enough throughout those couple of games he played near the tail end
15:27of the season. He's a quality player, but obviously probably didn't get exactly what
15:32they were wanting, or maybe they don't think he's, listen, what's your thoughts on that, Darryl?
15:38You digging yourself a hole there? No, I'm not, no, not really, not really surprised. Evans came,
15:45he's come in, he's come back off the back of a serious injury, he's proved himself now.
15:50From his point of view, he's come from a short-term deal and he will say, look, I'm back,
15:55you know, in prospective clubs now, you know, there's no, you know, I can now kick on and he
16:00won't be short of takers. Profile-wise, I think he was quite similar to Marlon Pack.
16:05Yeah. Maybe that was a factor. But when, yeah, when they came in, which game was it,
16:12was it the Derby game? No. Yeah, it was a Derby game. Yeah. They looked really good in some
16:19factors, those two next to each other, because they were both spraying the ball that really,
16:22you know, they're intelligent players. And then on the other side of the coin,
16:27and he would do this to most people, by the way, then Corey Blackett-Taylor just steamed through
16:30the middle and left them both for dead and Derby scored. And Corey, as I say, Blackett-Taylor does
16:35that to 99% of the people, but it was just kind of like, yeah, we're not got too much
16:39pace in the middle of those two, have we, kind of thing. So, profile-wise, you know,
16:43it's a yin and yang. But so, no, I think he came in, he's great around the place. He's a,
16:49you know, experienced player, big character. You said he's a leader. He was just what Pompey
16:56needed, as much for off the pitches on it. But, you know, now with Pompey going back up and,
17:01you know, looking at what they need and midfield will be certainly in that department in terms of
17:05improving. I just think they're looking for slightly different things moving forward.
17:11Let's get Alex Robertson back. Who would you take out? Lee Evans or Alex Robertson,
17:15moving forward? Oh, Alex Robertson every day of the week, like, yeah. We'll get on to him,
17:19don't you worry. Don't you worry. Save your thoughts on that for now. But yeah, moving
17:25forward, let's think moving forward, like 12 players potentially leaving, if you include
17:30Morrell and Swanson. That's a big turnaround, isn't it? For, yeah, a team going up to the
17:36Championship. How big of a risk is that there, Jordy? Yeah, it's a substantial one. But I think,
17:44again, like it was last season from the season before, if you go from the season before with
17:48Cowley, where there was hardly anyone there, there was a big, big, big turnaround. It was
17:52slightly more developed this season. And then, again, you've got more of the fundamentals in
17:57place now. I think, is it 18 contracted? I think I've just counted in total. So, that's
18:02substantially more. Rest assured, though, you're looking at, I mean, you can look at it. I think
18:08John has kind of said that he's broadly happy with the front line. But slight question mark
18:13over where he sees Sadie. He plays deeper. Then you look at a striker there. I think you'd probably,
18:19even with four centre-backs, you wouldn't be surprised to see a fifth come in.
18:22Left-back, centre midfielder, backup keeper, definitely need wingers,
18:29probably two or three wingers, maybe a ten. How many is that? You're probably getting up to eight
18:35or ten there, aren't you? Let me count them up. Two right-backs, of course. So, you're looking
18:41at double figures again. But then if you look at the squad, then next season in the Championship,
18:48nine subs for a start. Yeah, yeah. People are thinking about that, don't they?
18:5320 straight off, isn't it? So, you're going to need more of a squad than you did this season.
18:58You're going to probably need another couple on top. So, you're getting up to probably 26,
19:0228 for the squad next season. Yeah. I'm going to ask you about ambition in a bit
19:08in the Championship, but you've just went through the whole squad there. There's going to need
19:14improvements. What are the key positions you feel Pompey need to improve on? Not just replace
19:20the players that they have, but they need to improve on to make themselves competitive in
19:25the Championship? Oh, that's a really good question. Really good question. Obviously,
19:32right-back. We need two right-backs. Not that it's a key position. I think centre-backs...
19:39I'm talking a fit Regan, Paul, in there with the other guys. I think McIntyre's got a
19:44potential. Big, big potential. I think Connor Schott-Nessie, we've seen what he can do.
19:48Riley Towler, by the way. I mean, what a lad. What a superb lad he's been. Great for the club.
19:54Hardly played this season. Three starts in the league. Plays well. Fantastic well-mounted match
19:59in the final game. Doesn't agitate. So, I wouldn't be surprised if they got Riley out on loan,
20:04but a development loan. Not one where you're getting a loan to get rid
20:08and then getting another centre-back in. So, that's one area. But, yeah, I think the main
20:15areas for me, really, would be the sharpen-up in the middle of the park. But the big area,
20:21really, is out wide. Wingers. We're going to need wingers at the moment, aren't we?
20:27What have we got? We've got Paddy Lane, we've got Callum Langley. Whether you play Callum
20:31Langley, see him as a tenner or someone out wide. And you're going to need additions there. So,
20:37I think you're going to need two, maybe three, wingers. And that's the place that really needs
20:44good attention. Obviously, we'd love one of them to be Abu Kamara. That's why we all want to be
20:51Norwich City supporters and get him up into the Premier League. Because I think in the
20:54Championship, if you're Norwich, why would you let Abu Kamara go in the Championship?
21:00You'd want to keep him, wouldn't you? You'd either want to sell him for a load of money,
21:04or you'd play him in the Championship. So, Premier League, I don't think that would be
21:09the case. That would be a big bonus for Pompey. Strikers, I know this has been a bit of a bone
21:15of contention off the back of our story and Massino saying he's happy. Yeah, I think Colby
21:21Bishop deserves a crack in the Championship. People disagree. 40 goals, clearing 20 goals
21:28in the last two seasons. Cassini-Yenge, look what he could be. He could be anything,
21:32and he could be anything in the Championship. He does what he does last season in the Championship
21:36for me. And Christian Sadie, yeah, he can be the development of what he has been and coming in and
21:44impacting games. But yeah, maybe deeper. If you put Christian as a 10, then maybe another attacking
21:51option. And profile-wise, maybe something young and a bit pacey. A bit different to what we've
21:55got up there at the moment. But as I say, I think that's a lower priority for Pompey. Certainly,
22:02that's the vibe I get from speaking to people anyway. So yeah, I've gone through the positions,
22:08but yeah, if you hadn't answered your question, I think wingers are going to be huge for Pompey.
22:12Blazer can actually beat them. Dembele, we've mentioned this week, is someone who, and I've
22:19got to try and get this story in the right context as it comes across as a transfer story. I think
22:24what's being said is that my understanding is that if someone like Dembele becomes available,
22:29Pompey, bite your hands off for him. I'm not saying that there's a deal that's been done
22:35there or there's been talks taking place. It's just like if Dembele, who will be, is the epitome
22:40of what Pompey are trying to look at. So it just gives readers an inkling of where Pompey are in
22:47terms of the profile the players are looking for. And that is an exciting one for me, Dembele.
22:51That's the epitome of someone who can step up and do something in the championship.
22:55And there'll be no shortage of takers for him. If he was to go to a Premier League club and
22:59hopefully you could get him on loan. His club in France are pushing hard for the, for the
23:04Champions League. So is he going to fit in there? Would it be another loan? These are all questions
23:09that haven't been answered by the way. So it's a long way off, but it just gives people an inkling
23:15of where Pompey are looking and the kind of quality. And that to me is very exciting.
23:21So you've mentioned, you've said profile twice there, it's passed a minute or two. Has the
23:27profile a player Pompey are after changed because of now their championship status?
23:31Or is it very much no, but the quality of that profile goes up?
23:37Oh yeah, you've got, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's what you've said in the, yes, the profile is,
23:43the bar has been raised. It's an evolution of the same policy. That's where it's at.
23:48It's the same Pompey aren't all of a sudden going to go and sign experienced 30, you know,
23:53Premier League players, or it's still the same policy firmly in place. Players that can
23:58be, you know, being recruited now, they can be recruited because they can be developed
24:01as assets and perform at the next level. It's slightly changed in January, quite right too,
24:07because it went into, let's get over the line. Let's get the players that we need to get up
24:10this season. That's where you see people like Lee Evans come in. But now it's definitely,
24:15it's definitely just an exciting raising of the bar of that profile. So for example,
24:21Dembele being a great, great person you could speak about. He had a great loan out in League
24:26One this season. He made a big impact. He then goes back and if he goes out on loan, his next
24:33loan is going to be to the championship. Or if not, he gets a move to the Prem. So that's now
24:38someone that's in Pompey's sights that wouldn't have been beforehand. I've used the example of
24:43Magoma at Bolton, who's gone from Brentford, ripped it up in League One. He may even go back
24:51to Brentford and feature at Premier League level. But if not, he doesn't come back to League One,
24:55does he? Alex Robertson, if he had a full season, I mean, where would he be? The sky's the limit
25:03for him. As it is, he had an outstanding half a season. I still think his next loan is the
25:07championship when he goes out again. So if we'd Pompey not gone up, these players would have been,
25:12forget it. As it is now, that's the evolution of where Pompey, in terms of loans, for example,
25:17where they're going. And again, players have become available to him as a result of the level
25:24that they're standing at. I think a question that's on everybody's lips then, how do Pompey
25:30afford this then if they want to remain sustainable? What is the budget? Is it going to just
25:36automatically double from what they're currently operating on? Or do Pompey still need to be smart
25:41with their money and be cute with their signings? How can they make this leap and make a success out
25:48of it? Yeah, well, I mean, no one's hiding from the fact that what is effectively in and around
25:55the top six budget, which got pushed in terms of transfer fees and is in and around top six,
26:02I would say. But it was definitely going up last season. Where does that get you in the
26:09championship? That gets you right at the bottom. So Pompey, you have to probably multiply that by
26:16a couple or a few, their playing budget in the championship. Fortunately, there's obviously
26:23going to be revenue streams coming in and an increase in TV money, for example. It's going
26:29to be many, many times what they were, what it was in League One. Obviously, there's a new deal
26:33coming in as well. So there's going to be a sharp intake in that. So yeah, Pompey's got a very
26:40intelligent sort of way, manner of operating in a sustainable fashion. Now, people kind of
26:47get wrapped up in sustainable as a break-even model. But that's not the case. And Pompey
26:53will operate with losses in the championship. They've operated with losses at the moment.
26:57But when that's being sustained by the owners putting in money as equity and not
27:05ramping up the debt of the club, that's a good thing. And that's why we've got much to
27:11thank the owners for. I did the story with John this week, and if you look at it,
27:15it kind of answers your question. It goes into a lot of depth about the way Pompey operates
27:19sustainably. What they've done, the owners have put money in and looked to build on the
27:25infrastructure. And effectively, the revenue of the club covers the wages. Now, that can happen,
27:34obviously, with money, the income's going up. And hopefully, we'll look at where the revenue
27:39streams come. But obviously, just from TV and money alone, that sharply goes up in the
27:44championship. That gives Pompey leeway to then say, okay, if your revenue equals your wage bill
27:49broadly, then the rest of the money that's being put in, for whatever reason that was to stop
27:55one day, we're not going to crash and burn into a Derby County or a Reading or whoever. It's still
28:01sustainable. And that buzzword is sustainable. So Pompey can go up and it will be able to
28:07increase substantially, you would have thought, on the basis that a transfer fee has been another one.
28:12Once you pay a transfer fee, you can put that money in. That's not going into
28:18your wages, is it? So you can go out and pay money for players or do the training ground or
28:23spend 12 million on Fratton Park or pay half a million pound for a player or whoever much it is.
28:29That's still sustainable if you're getting a couple of what's going out of the club in terms
28:33of your wage bill. So I think that's very, very, as a sports writer, should we say,
28:40not Kieran Maguire, that's kind of broadly the model of being a financial expert. But in a nutshell,
28:48hope it made some sense. Well, okay then, let's move on from that subject then. What about the
28:54loans? Some very successful loans this season, Alex Robertson, Abi Kamaru, Tino Andrian. I get
29:02the impression Joe Massino likes Tino Andrian and wants him back next season. I've not written a
29:07story yet. Do you reckon Pompey will be? I know at the end of every season, there'll always be a
29:16story. Yeah, we're interested. We want to keep them. Is that the same this season or is there a
29:21wee bit more depth to that they're interested this year? In particularly, all the loans. Well,
29:27let's say Alex Robertson, what's the chances of Pompey getting Alex Robertson back next season?
29:31Yeah, I'd be hopeful. I've been very optimistic and I've put it to John Massino this week.
29:42Oh no, was it? No, it was before that actually. It was before. It was off the back of winning the
29:47league. We spoke about Alex Robertson and obviously being around and he obviously loved
29:52the club. He's come back from those games for Shrewsbury and then the title games and
29:57it's fantastic. He's obviously got an affinity with Portsmouth and he's there at Bolton and
30:02you don't have players doing things like that unless there's a connection there. And I know a
30:07lot of Pompey supporters have collared him and sort of taken optimism for the fact that he said,
30:12yeah, I'd love to come back next season. But as John Massino quite rightly said in a laugh when
30:16he said he bought some last-minute tricks, that's my question. I said, no, the fans are optimistic
30:20because Alex is saying to them that he wants to come back. He said, well, yeah, if you're being
30:25cornered in the concourse at Bolton, I don't think you'd be saying no, are you? Exactly.
30:32That is a genuine, you've got a genuine affinity. But what John was getting at is ultimately,
30:37it's Man City that have a big say on things as well, isn't it? And where are things to pan out
30:41for Alex Robertson and where does he go top end championship or does he go to someone who
30:49has just come into the division? Where's the actual next step for him? Pompey have got a
30:53lot going in their favour, I'd say, but it won't be clear. And as will be the case of all the
30:57loans as well, it's kind of, you've got to, even with the optimism that you have, put a question
31:02mark on it because you know how it works. The players, the loans don't come out when you come
31:06back and the transfer window opens, does it? Or players come back for pre-season training. They
31:10always go late in the window because managers assess their squads and look at what's available.
31:15They know what's going to, what happens. They might, a player they've got earmarked to go out
31:20might start ripping it up in pre-season and surprise you. And then he comes back into your
31:24plans and all these impungable injuries and things like that. So they tend to always happen late. So
31:29a lot can happen between now or June when the window opens and the end of August when these
31:34loans tend to develop more. So, yeah, I think I'd be broadly optimistic with Alex Robson.
31:39Abby, I thought was kind of covered with the fact that, you know, you want Norwich to get
31:43promoted and that improves that one. And then hopefully they don't cash in on him. I don't think
31:48they would. Tino Andreen, a good one again to pick up on because he's come back, he's a great
31:54lad. All the preconceived ideas about players coming from clubs, big Premier League clubs and
31:59being through the academy system and being cocky. He's the antithesis of that. He's just such a
32:06lovely, nice, warm lad of Tino. He's had a horrible, horrible run of injuries, but he came
32:12back. Even at the end of the season when I spoke to him, he sort of said, oh, after Pompey paid my
32:17wages, I felt like I had to come back and really put it in and put myself out as a debt to them.
32:22He felt like, and he was impressive. You could see he was at the bit between his teeth at the
32:26end of last season and this season. So he came back and he's really good. Some good performances,
32:31I think second half at Bolton, you know, and other performances when he came on at Fratton Park.
32:37I think there could be a deal to be done with Tino. I really got the vibe that if they can,
32:45again, structure it in such a way, which I think they did this season, whereby you cover yourself
32:51off with his injury record. Yeah, so I don't think there's any questions about his quality.
32:57I think Tino's operated in the Championship before and those Pompey fans who've watched
33:01him this season would know that he could operate in the Championship again for sure. So, yeah,
33:07I'd be optimistic. Miles Pitt-Harris, again, like what I said about Tino and the other lads,
33:13he's not what you think he is. He's a good egg and quite a nice character.
33:19Has he done enough? And Pompey fans have taken it to his heart with his
33:26genuine sentiments to the football club, how he's really embraced being here and being a part of
33:32things. He's really become quite popular and more popular than probably a lot of people
33:39would have anticipated. His form, variable, come in, man of the match against Port Val,
33:45some dropped off a bit, but then came back. And as John Massino said as well, I think they're
33:50really pleased as a loan spell with Miles. Does that get him back here? I'm not quite sure. But,
33:56yeah, good, good loan spell, good, good lad. And yeah, part of a title winning squad, isn't it?
34:04Yeah. Listen, I've got three more questions to ask. So, appreciate your time here. Let's talk
34:11about players who remain under contract at Pompey, but may still leave. Is that a possibility
34:19this summer still? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, that depends on a number of factors.
34:27What happens with recruiting? Can Pompey get their targets? Do
34:32options become available to them, open the door to other players potentially leaving? There's
34:37certain imponderables and what you probably look at there is then if they do, it does pan out,
34:42then you might well see a contracted players get an opportunity to move on. And I think they've
34:48said this, John Massino said that himself, will be revisited. Or if not, if they remain under
34:54contract, potentially then move out on loan. So, you can think of people like Ben Stevens,
35:03you know, his contract wasn't around too much this season in terms of football.
35:08What happens with Jack Sparks? Absolutely revelation if he assists this season. I don't
35:13think I've seen a player fall back with a delivery quite like him at Pompey. Matt Taylor maybe,
35:20since Matt Taylor off the top of my head. Absolutely outstanding, but does he make the
35:25step up to the Championship? You know, that would be assessed in pre-season. So, there's a number
35:31of players that fall into that category in terms of contracted that will be revisited, I think.
35:37Okay. What about the pressure on Rich Hughes then? Obviously, he's come in to Pompey,
35:42he's done a magnificent job. It all starts again, doesn't it? People start judging them now from
35:46this window onwards, like, so there's a lot of pressure on his shoulders. Oh, it is. I think,
35:52yeah, talk about credit in the bank. I mean, wow. I mean, he's not, you know, pressures,
36:00he's not got the pressure of, like, a couple of foul transfer windows behind him, has he?
36:07I mean, who would have anticipated in the time that he's coming to the club, so
36:13September 22, is it? I mean, in sort of 18 months or so, his, you know, standing is through the
36:21roof in the game. I'm sure there'll be people in football, like there is, because it is that game,
36:28but we'll be looking at what Rich Hughes is doing as John Massino. Well, absolutely no doubt about
36:34that. But they seem invested in the mission at Pompey, and that's really heartening,
36:40in Keane's special. But yeah, there's pressure on Rich, he knows the rule of the game.
36:44You're probably only as good as your last transfer window, unfortunately, yeah, in the business that
36:50he's in. But I think he's well placed to continue. And I don't think he's going to
36:59kind of revolutionise the way he's operated. I think he's just going to divert from the way
37:03he's gone about his work. I just think, as I say, that evolution of it and just moving up in terms
37:09of the profile of players that he's looking at and developing, rather than going, right, okay,
37:14we're going to all of a sudden go for slightly different profiles and change up. I think they
37:20know what's served them well so far, and I think that's well set to continue.
37:24Okay, and finally for me, I know it's early days, can't get any earlier, I suppose,
37:29but what do you reckon Pompey's ambitions are for the challenge up next season?
37:34Oh, yeah, Ipswich part two, that's totally it. I bet when they see that, they see these pundits
37:45say, well, Pompey can, the status of Pompey as a club, I mean, they can go and do what Ipswich did
37:50last season. I bet they're sort of sat there in the football office and going, argh! I'll come out,
37:57I've said it privately, I've not said it publicly, fourth bottom next season, I'll buy your hand off
38:02for it in the championship. I mean, I know it sounds kind of, not negative, but come on, just
38:10be realistic about the world that Pompey are entering. I don't know what's happened there,
38:15then people, that raises ambitions. But Pompey need to go in, they've been out of the division
38:21for 12 years, and Pompey are a very different beast to Ipswich, by the way, I should emphasise
38:25that. Look at the way, the models and what they're doing. Well, you know, I don't think
38:32Ipswich are a sustainable club, but Pompey are. That's nothing to do with differences of ambition
38:40at all. Pompey will be ambitious next season. It's exciting what they're doing, but Ipswich is
38:45a different level altogether in terms of what they... You just have a look at the spending they
38:51did in League One, like the players... Well, exactly, that's what I was about to say. What
38:55they spent to get out of League One is like way, way higher than like a lot of championship
39:04wage bills. So, and then they've gone on, okay, then they're going on, let's give them some
39:09credit as well, because obviously with the clubs in receipt of parachute payment, they're not like
39:13number one in the playing budgets in the championship, but they're very competitive.
39:17So, yeah, let's get away from that Ipswich comparison is what I'm getting at, and look
39:23at Pompey. Yeah, I mean, extreme to say fourth bottom, but can Pompey go into the championship,
39:29establish themselves, get used to a new terrain, a very different one to 12 years ago,
39:34very, very different one. The insanity that Andy Cullen talks of in terms of the championship and
39:40the money there. Can Pompey go in there and go in with a good plan, a plan that's not dissimilar to
39:49teams that went through the championship. Let's not forget about teams that have done it as well,
39:54playoff finals between the likes, you know, but Coventry getting there as well, and Luton getting
39:58out of the division, Huddersfield, not too many years ago, off the basis of decent investment,
40:04but not insane investment, and then doing it on a model where they can establish themselves. So
40:09that's what I'm looking for, for Pompey. I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to
40:12going to some press rooms with some decent food. I'm looking forward to not sitting in places like
40:19Accrington, I know they're in League Two last season, but the likes of that, and Fleetwood,
40:24freezing myself behind a desk for six hours with no press room to go into,
40:31just a place I might be able to get a little bit of warmth when the cold kicks in,
40:35and things like that. So yeah, I'm not going to get any sympathy from my viewers and listeners,
40:40am I? But I do know it's a privilege, really, and I'm very much, like everyone, looking forward to
40:48going back to the, not quite the land of milk and honey, but milk and honey minus one in the
40:52championship. Brilliant stuff, Jory. Really appreciate that there. We've covered a lot of
40:58bases there, so yeah, good stuff. Thank you all for watching. We'll hopefully be back with a
41:04couple more of these over the course of the pre-season. Stay tuned. In the meantime, thank
41:09you and goodbye.