This week Chris Deacy is joined in the studio by Charlie Tidmas to discuss the films; Weekend, Beasts of the Southern Wild, Brokeback Mountain, and The Iron Giant.
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00:00 [Music]
00:14 Hello and welcome to Kent Film Club.
00:16 I'm Chris Deasy and each week I'll be joined by a guest from Kent to dive deep into the
00:20 impact certain films have had on their life.
00:23 Each guest will reflect on the films which have meant the most to them over the years.
00:28 And every week there will be a Kent Film Trivia where we quiz you at home about a film that
00:32 has a connection to the county.
00:34 And now let me introduce you to my guest for this week.
00:38 He is a screenwriter and filmmaker who works with the BFI and BBC as well as a recreational
00:44 ice hockey player with the Medway Eagles.
00:47 He is Charlie Tidmouth.
00:50 Great to have you on the programme Charlie.
00:52 Thanks for having me.
00:53 Now you've chosen as your first film Weekend.
00:56 Yes, I love this film to bits.
00:59 It's one that I think has had probably the most impact on all of the stuff that I make.
01:04 It's something that has stayed with me ever since I first watched it and I recently got
01:09 to watch it again at the Curzon down in Canterbury and it was just so nice to see it on the big
01:14 screen again.
01:15 Now tell me a little bit about it because obviously I don't know your choices in advance.
01:19 So for anybody who hasn't seen this film give me a little bit of the context.
01:23 So it's this wonderful, intimate, gentle film about two men who meet over a weekend and
01:30 fall for one another and spend this really lovely sort of mundane time together and really
01:36 build this beautiful connection between each other.
01:39 And then there's without giving too much away, there's kind of a deadline on their time together.
01:43 And so it's just this beautiful exploration of intimacy and masculinity.
01:49 And it's just lovely.
01:52 And you saw this on the big screen.
01:53 Now did you watch it, was there a large audience because you mentioned that this film you had
01:58 seen before, is that right?
01:59 So this was a second plus visit.
02:03 Yeah, I know.
02:04 I saw it years and years ago I think at the BFI Southbank where it was a huge packed out
02:12 audience and Andrew Hay's film, I mean recently with All of Us Strangers, he draws huge audiences
02:19 and so watching it again at the Curzon, it's a smaller cinema, it's a smaller audience
02:23 but it's that bit more intimate and it feels a lot more interactive and lovely in that way.
02:28 Yeah and I remember this was showing now that you mentioned All of Us Strangers because
02:31 of course that came out just a few months ago and this film was quite largely revisited,
02:37 I think it was showing on one of their Monday night series.
02:39 So having seen All of Us Strangers as well which is a very ethereal, almost like a ghost
02:44 story film about modern alienation and relationships, do you find that there are similar sort of
02:49 strands running through both of these films?
02:51 Yeah, absolutely.
02:52 I think definitely the way that Andrew Hay plays with spaces is certainly something that's
02:56 really interestingly explored in both films.
02:59 They're both sort of set in some kind of block of flats, one being really kind of high end,
03:04 fancy and empty and the other being more working class, lived in, comfortable and the way that
03:11 those spaces impact the relationships that go on between them is a really interesting,
03:16 there's a real dissonance between the two films in that way but definitely the exploration
03:20 of intimacy and male connection and the ways in which queer relationships build very quickly
03:26 is something that I think Andrew Hay is just a master at exploring.
03:30 Yeah because I certainly found that with All of Us Strangers because it was set in the
03:33 1980s but also told very much from the point of view of how foreign the past seemed to
03:39 be.
03:40 Tell me a bit about Weekend in that sort of lens, when is it set, is it a contemporary
03:43 set film or does it also play with issues around the past?
03:46 I mean yeah so it's definitely a contemporary set of its time, I think it's 2011, maybe
03:51 wrong, I think it's pretty much around then but it's very much of that time and even sort
03:56 of re-watching it, costumes, props, phones, things like that age things very quickly but
04:01 it does still feel like it draws on really contemporary issues, particularly around the
04:06 ways in which men are able to express emotions and feel connection with one another and so
04:11 there is a little bit of looking back at the past but most of it is kind of in that moment
04:16 exploring that microcosm of time.
04:18 Because what Andrew Hay was able to do really well in All of Us Strangers is that sense
04:23 that back in the 1980s where a lot of it is set, the sort of relationships that he's able
04:28 to have today couldn't have taken place and of course I remember the 1980s, I remember
04:32 the whole sort of grounded in the Pet Shop Boys, the Christmas number one from that year,
04:35 there's all those sort of things that sort of feel both real and present but also distant
04:39 at the same time.
04:40 So in the case of Weekend, is he also dealing with those similar issues around alienation?
04:45 Yeah, absolutely.
04:46 I think there's a real thread through the film of the fact that he exists within these
04:51 straight friendship groups, you know, who have families and kids and he is moving through
04:56 those spaces but not really feeling at home there and not feeling the kind of connection
05:01 that he wants in those kind of spaces and in those friendships.
05:04 So that's where the power of this relationship comes in is that it offers him a real opportunity
05:09 to be seen and to be really authentically himself and that's again something reflected
05:14 in All of Us Strangers.
05:15 It's just a really, really lovely look at how these relationships develop.
05:20 And do you sort of feel when you're watching this, because obviously there were others
05:23 there, was this the sort of film that people were finding that they could identify with
05:28 it, it could even possibly transform them, there was this sense that this film had allowed
05:32 them to express themselves in the way that they want to do?
05:34 Yeah, absolutely.
05:35 I think that's totally accurate.
05:37 I mean it's really interesting watching it for the first time back then and then watching
05:41 it again, you know, I've watched it many times since, but watching it again recently on the
05:44 big screen I realised that I'd actually switched which of the characters I'm most sort of aligned
05:49 with.
05:50 And so I think that's something that I've noticed personally but I think audiences as
05:53 well will notice as they get a bit older they start to kind of side with a different character
05:58 in that, yeah.
05:59 Fantastic.
06:00 Well it's time now to move on to your second chosen film, Charlie, and you've gone for
06:03 Beasts of the Southern Wild.
06:07 Yes.
06:08 I think it's possibly the best film ever made in my opinion and I know that's a huge claim
06:16 but I think it's so beautiful and so well made, you know, I can't see anything wrong
06:22 with it personally.
06:23 I love it to bits.
06:24 So when did you first see it and why has it lasted in a way that other films perhaps haven't?
06:31 That's a great question.
06:32 I don't actually know when I first saw it.
06:35 It must have been when I was at uni or something and just really trying to find different films
06:40 to look at and different films to engage with.
06:42 I think it stuck with me because it has such a fantastic way of building emotional impact
06:48 into this sort of bizarre, mad world that, you know, can't exist but could exist and
06:54 it's all very, very strange and beautiful and just the way it explores community and
07:00 particularly communities under pressure from sort of outside forces.
07:06 It's just brilliant.
07:07 It's genius.
07:08 And in terms of genre, because some of the best films cross genre, how would you categorise
07:13 Beasts of the Southern Wild?
07:14 Oh wow.
07:15 That's a great question.
07:17 I think it's maybe a social realist fantasy.
07:20 I think that's probably where I'd land it but again, there's comedy, there's drama,
07:25 there's all sorts in it and that's why it's so great.
07:27 Yeah, I mean also, as soon as you said that I was thinking things like Pan's Labyrinth
07:30 but also could be sort of construed in that sort of way.
07:34 But tell me a bit about, you saw this on the small screen, on the big screen?
07:39 I've never seen it on the big screen.
07:41 So I think that's something that I'm really eager to do.
07:46 It's finding a screen that will do it but I think every time I watch it I make a point
07:51 of headphones on, noise cancelling, have to be able to hear every part of this because
07:56 I mean the music and the sound design is beautiful and the visuals are so stunning.
08:02 I think seeing it on the big screen would be just perfect.
08:06 Is it the sort of film that you can share with other people because I found this, when
08:09 there are films sometimes that really impact you, there's a part of you sometimes that
08:13 really wants to say to other people, look at this, it's a hidden gem.
08:16 But there's also a part sometimes that you like to have it as your own space.
08:20 You don't want somebody else to give it the sort of critique that you don't think it warrants
08:24 because you know it means far more to you than somebody else who might not be interested
08:30 in it.
08:31 Let them not watch it.
08:33 So where do you stand in that respect?
08:35 Is it a film that you've been very good at showing off to other people?
08:38 Yeah, I think so.
08:39 Particularly where I lecture, I have students, I like to make sure that they're aware of
08:44 it or even the short film related to it, I think it's Glory at Sea.
08:50 I think it's such a great option to show in terms of having a really authored voice, saying
08:57 something, having a real specific perspective and approach to storytelling that is unusual,
09:03 it's exciting, it's doing something new.
09:05 And so I'm really up for sharing it and if someone criticises it, that's their problem,
09:10 I love it.
09:11 When was the last time that you watched it?
09:13 Last time I watched it was about, I want to say about two months ago.
09:17 I was going through my letterboxd and I was looking at what's something I've really enjoyed
09:22 in the past and I thought I haven't seen that in a while, I'll put it on and I watched it
09:26 and again it was just an immediate five stars, perfect, can't argue with it.
09:30 Yeah and do you sort of look at other people's reviews of this sort of thing?
09:33 Because I always find that I'm interested in other people's perspectives, often quite
09:37 bespoke, quite different perspectives sometimes from one's own.
09:41 So are you interested in the way that this has interested other people?
09:46 Yeah, I mean I've never sort of sought out the reviews but it's always when I screen
09:51 it or when I talk about it, other people will raise their perspectives and it's really interesting
09:55 to be able to kind of dig into what landed for me, what didn't land for other people,
10:00 that kind of stuff's really fun.
10:01 I don't take it too personally.
10:03 And I have to ask as well because obviously you're screenwriting, now why would this be
10:07 a film that you'd be interested to show your students?
10:09 Is it sort of the template of the ideal sort of way that maybe you'd put together a film
10:14 screenplay?
10:15 I mean yeah, in terms of story it's perfect.
10:18 It does exactly what you need it to do.
10:20 It hits all the beats, it kind of, you know, character, genre, all of this stuff is really
10:24 sort of playfully sort of used in this story.
10:28 And I think the stuff that I really want to get across to students with it is that kind
10:33 of sense of it's really clearly authored, there is a voice behind this story, it's doing
10:38 something exciting, it's trying something different and that's the kind of stuff that
10:42 makes work stand out.
10:43 That's the kind of stuff that students and young people and anyone looking to get into
10:46 film should be looking to do is finding that thing that makes them stand out.
10:50 So it's the perfect way of showing them, you know, here's something great.
10:52 And have any of them then gone on to watch it and told you afterwards, you know, has
10:56 it sort of really hit the mark?
10:58 Yeah, no, absolutely.
10:59 I mean, particularly with the short, I have the opportunity to screen that in front of
11:02 them and then discuss it with them afterwards.
11:04 And so that's really fun.
11:06 You get to really kind of dig into the things that work and didn't and, you know, why that
11:10 doesn't necessarily land or why it does.
11:12 With the feature, yeah, I have definitely had emails from students who've, you know,
11:15 I like to put together a list of here's some stuff you might want to consider watching.
11:18 And that's one that always comes back with, wow, I wasn't expecting that.
11:22 And that's, you know, what more could you want from a film?
11:24 Absolutely.
11:25 Well, that's about all the time we have for this first half of the show.
11:28 However, before we go to the break, we have a Kent Film trivia question for you at home.
11:35 Dartford-born director Andrea Arnold has won the Cannes Film Festival jury prize three
11:40 times for her films Red Road, American Honey and what is it?
11:45 A) Wasp B)
11:47 Wuthering Heights or is it C)
11:49 Fish Tank?
11:50 We'll reveal the answer right after this break.
11:53 Don't go away.
12:06 Hello and welcome back to Kent Film Club.
12:09 Just before the ad break, we asked you at home a Kent Film trivia question.
12:13 Dartford-born director Andrea Arnold has won the Cannes Film Festival jury prize three
12:18 times for her films Red Road, American Honey and what?
12:21 I asked, is it A) Wasp B)
12:24 Wuthering Heights or C)
12:26 Fish Tank?
12:27 And now I can reveal to you that the answer was in fact C)
12:31 Fish Tank.
12:32 Andrea Arnold actually trained at the PAL Lab workshop in Kent and joined Screen South
12:37 on their 2004 trade mission to Los Angeles.
12:42 Did you get the answer right?
12:44 Well it is time now Charlie to move on to your next chosen film and you've gone for
12:49 Brokeback Mountain.
12:51 Yes, I love this film to the degree that I actually have it tattooed on my leg.
12:57 Literally?
12:58 Yes, very literally tattooed on my leg.
13:01 It had a really profound impact on me when I watched it particularly around the kind
13:06 of looking at masculinity, queer masculinity and sort of tender and gentle masculinity
13:11 and it's something that has always, always stuck with me and it's just the most beautiful
13:17 film.
13:18 Yes and I remember watching this at the cinema and of course it almost won Best Picture,
13:21 it won Best Director, it didn't win Best Picture, that went to crash and at the time
13:25 there was that question, is Hollywood quite ready for a same-sex relationship film?
13:31 And maybe at the time they weren't.
13:33 I don't know if that was almost 20 years ago now.
13:36 Yes, I think it opened a huge amount of doors for other filmmakers and other works to be
13:42 made and that's why I think it's such an important film.
13:45 I appreciate people often criticise some of the representations of a queer relationship
13:50 and things like that in it and I think absolutely the criticism is in a lot of cases valid but
13:55 what it did for the sort of landscape for queer filmmakers is just incredible and it's
14:00 made the industry that much more open and comfortable for queer filmmakers to enter
14:05 into and for those stories to be told so I think you kind of have to take the rough with
14:10 the smooth there, it's just done amazing things.
14:13 And what worked so well is that it wasn't drawing attention to itself, it was a relationship
14:17 film and it could have been male and female, in other words it wasn't drawing attention,
14:22 it was the compassion, it was the authenticity of the relationship, they were male but it
14:26 didn't draw attention to itself and it felt very naturalistic and actually a very, very
14:31 universal film and one which I think really impacted a lot of people.
14:36 Yeah, I think that's absolutely right.
14:39 The way that it was approached and the way that the storytelling transpires, I think
14:44 it's just such a, it's understated but it's important that it is because there were films
14:49 made at the time and prior to that that were very challenging and difficult and not necessarily
14:55 approaching these kinds of relationships from a compassionate perspective and so bringing
15:00 in this story and having those two young actors who were very young be that brave and kind
15:05 of willing to stand out there and put themselves on the line and their careers on the line
15:09 to tell this story is just, you know, I think that's really important, that's the kind of
15:14 filmmaking that I think really, really matters in terms of what we're making at the moment
15:19 and at that time, it's that storytelling that is willing to go to challenging places to
15:24 make sure that there's a pathway for other people moving forward.
15:28 Yeah, absolutely because as you were speaking there, I was just reflecting on the genre
15:32 of the Western and loosely it is a Western but it's also a Western that's very differently
15:37 configured to a traditional one where you wouldn't have the foregrounding of intimate
15:42 personal relationships, whether heterosexual or homosexual and I think that also makes
15:47 this film stand out but oddly that it was only five or six years into the 2000s, into
15:52 the 21st century, to have a film that actually did something that looking back now feels,
15:58 you know, what took it so long, what took Hollywood so long to get to this juncture?
16:04 Yeah, it's a funny one, I think the industry is known for being a bit slow to catch on
16:10 to, you know, things as they should be and, you know, we still see it today that there
16:15 are issues that, you know, the industry could be a lot better at addressing but I think
16:19 particularly with Brokeback Mountain it's such a standout and there's kind of, there's
16:23 almost a pre and a post Brokeback in the industry now and you can see it in the works that were
16:28 made and are being made and that's, you know, that's why I think it's so important.
16:32 Not only is it a beautiful, you know, fantastically made film, it also matters in the kind of
16:37 timeline of filmmaking.
16:38 Yeah, and I'm aware also of Catholic film critics as well who pointed to the universality
16:43 of the story, the tenderness and the fact that that actually is a far more important
16:47 way through to this than dealing with some of the controversy that may have prevented
16:52 it from winning the Academy Award for Best Picture.
16:55 But it's one of those films I think that people will look back on and say, you know, that
16:58 was the film that didn't win but, you know, like Goodfellas and Dances With Wolves, I
17:02 think Brokeback Mountain probably is in that kind of, that sort of mindset.
17:07 Yeah, absolutely.
17:08 I mean, it's, you know, it's the awards that you don't win, they matter as much as the
17:13 ones that you do and I think, you know, we see it even now, you know, films and actors
17:19 and actresses will, you know, be snubbed, so to speak, or, you know, not get the recognition
17:25 that we think they deserve.
17:26 But ultimately, you know, those films and those performances will stand the test of
17:30 time.
17:31 You know, people still watch those films, still feel really emotionally impacted by
17:35 what they've seen and that's, you know, 20 odd years later and it's still having that
17:38 impact.
17:39 I think that's all you can ask for, really.
17:41 Yeah, and do you think the film was groundbreaking at the time and still groundbreaking now or
17:46 do you feel that actually, you know, Hollywood has tended to be far more accepting of the
17:51 sort of narrative that this film, certainly when it came out and certainly in terms of
17:56 its genre as well, did feel very different from anything that, say, Clint Eastwood had
17:59 done before?
18:00 Yeah, I think it's definitely, you know, at the time it was very, very groundbreaking.
18:03 I think now we're in a completely different space with the industry and the kinds of films
18:07 that are being made and the representations of masculinity and queer masculinity are
18:11 getting a lot more nuanced and interesting in that way.
18:14 But I think, you know, there's something to be said for a film that, you know, 20 years
18:18 ago essentially changed the industry and still makes people feel something.
18:22 That's incredible.
18:23 Brilliant.
18:24 OK, well, thank you very much.
18:25 And it's time to move on to your final chosen film.
18:28 And you've gone for perhaps a change of genre, The Iron Giant.
18:32 Yeah, I thought it'd be remiss of me not to include some form of animation in my top four.
18:38 And it's, you know, and thinking back to which animations have really made me feel something
18:43 the most, I think The Iron Giant is just, it's great.
18:46 It's a really great film.
18:48 I think the style of animation is really lovely.
18:51 And the story that it's telling is just, yeah, it's great.
18:54 It's also one of the last films that I saw in the 90s.
18:58 And it's the Ted Hughes adaptation, isn't it?
19:00 Yes.
19:01 Yeah.
19:02 And tell me a little bit about this film.
19:03 So you've gone for animation.
19:04 Yes.
19:05 And it's so it's the boy who has a relationship with a non-human character.
19:08 Yeah.
19:09 So The Iron Giant itself is essentially a weapon.
19:13 And the whole sort of story is looking at how someone or something that is a weapon
19:18 can learn to be something else and to kind of grow beyond what it is supposed to be.
19:24 And I think that's such a wonderful message for young people in particular, who are more
19:28 likely to be watching this kind of thing to have is that, you know, you are not what you
19:32 believe you're destined to be.
19:33 You can be anything.
19:34 And you can, you know, you can make that choice.
19:36 And to have a film that's telling them that is great.
19:39 Because I started by saying this is a different sort of film because in terms of in terms
19:43 of genre, it probably is.
19:44 But actually, it's not really that different from Weekend or Brokeback Mountain because
19:47 it's dealing with those questions there about relationships that are maybe not the obvious
19:52 ones in terms of portrayals.
19:54 This is a boy having a relationship with something other, something different and has the tenderest.
19:59 And it's a beautiful love story, but it involves an animate and an inanimate object.
20:03 Yeah.
20:04 And I think, you know, I think platonic and, you know, those kind of relationships are
20:09 just as important in our lives.
20:10 And to have something like this where young people can see what is actually a really healthy
20:15 relationship and a really healthy friendship between Hogarth and the Iron Giant.
20:21 I think that's just it's a really great template for them to have.
20:24 And it's such a it's such a fun film as well.
20:28 It's kind of it's quite dark and it is quite, you know, sad and scary in parts.
20:32 But it's fun and there's real kind of light shown in dark times.
20:37 And I think that's I think that's great.
20:39 Yeah.
20:40 All sorts of political allegories as well in terms of the you know, when the story was
20:43 yeah, the inception of it.
20:46 But tell me about when you first saw this.
20:47 Now, I'm guessing you were fairly young when you perhaps saw it.
20:50 And is it a film that's sort of grown up with you over the years?
20:53 Yeah, absolutely.
20:54 I mean, I think I was maybe four when this came out, which is, you know, is probably
20:59 slightly young to be watching it.
21:01 You know, those days it was VHS, watch every film you can.
21:05 And and I think it's one that, you know, I still have now on DVD.
21:08 You know, I love to keep a hard copy of films I love.
21:12 And it's it's just a story that no matter what age you are, you can still take something
21:16 from it.
21:17 That, again, is something that I really love in a film is where you can watch it again
21:20 and go, oh, now with this little bit more perspective, I understand this a bit more
21:24 and it makes me feel a slightly different way.
21:26 But I still really liked what I was watching.
21:28 And isn't that you may find this also through your screenwriting as well, that sometimes
21:31 those films that cross genres, subvert genres or maybe through a children's film, which
21:36 ostensibly it is, you know, there's something in there also which as an adult you still
21:41 find important enough all these years later to sort of see this as as quite seminal.
21:46 Yeah, I think, you know, all films, generally speaking, have something to say.
21:51 They have an argument that they're making.
21:53 And whether it's a kid's film or an adult's film, you're always going to find that message
21:57 because the filmmakers put it there.
21:58 And it's just about, you know, as you get older, it's you have a different relationship
22:02 with that message and what it means to you and how it impacts how you think about the
22:05 film and life.
22:06 So it's one that I think has a really wonderful, clear message.
22:10 And so that's, I think, why it stuck with me is because it's really clear and it's really
22:14 fun.
22:15 And you use it with your students as well.
22:17 Is the screenplay here one that you tend to, you know, particularly flag up?
22:21 Do you know, I've never used it with students.
22:24 I think maybe maybe I think it's because sometimes when animation looks a little bit dated and
22:30 a little bit older, you can start to see young people sort of switch off a little bit, which
22:34 is, you know, it's a bit of a shame.
22:36 But, you know, maybe maybe moving forward, that's something to use.
22:40 Yeah.
22:41 Yeah.
22:42 So when I saw this in 1999 in Swansea in South Wales, interesting that I probably wasn't
22:47 thinking in 25 years time, we'll be talking about the way that the animation may have
22:51 faded.
22:52 But do you think that is a problem?
22:53 I think, you know, I mean, they've released a kind of one of those ones where they sort
22:58 of slightly tidy it up.
22:59 I don't see it being a problem.
23:01 I think, you know, if we look back over the history of animation, there's some some crazy
23:04 techniques that were used.
23:07 There's some crazy approaches to it.
23:08 And I think, you know, as long as you're invested in the story, as long as you sort of go, it's
23:13 like when you try and show, you know, an 11 year old a black and white film and they go,
23:18 oh, just just wait, just get over it.
23:20 It'll be fine.
23:21 You'll enjoy it.
23:22 And after, you know, five, 10 minutes, they do settle into it.
23:23 And I think it's the same thing with with films like The Iron Giant, where, you know,
23:27 we're 20 odd years past it coming out, but it's still impactful in its own way.
23:31 Brilliant.
23:32 Well, I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today.
23:34 Many thanks to Charlie Titmuss for joining us and being such a brilliant guest.
23:39 And many thanks to you all for tuning in.
23:41 Be sure to come back and join us again at the same time next week.
23:45 Until then, that's all from us.
23:47 Goodbye.
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23:56 (dramatic music)