Graham Bean joins us from Dublin to discuss Scotland's match against Ireland on the final weekend of the Six Nations.
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00:00 Hello and welcome to this episode of the Scotsman Rugby Show.
00:05 My name is Mark Atkinson, Sports Editor, and I'm joined by our Chief Rugby Writer, Graham
00:10 Bean, who is in Dublin ahead of Scotland's final Six Nations match of the year against
00:15 the Irish.
00:16 Graham, good morning.
00:17 How are you?
00:18 Morning, Mark.
00:19 Very well, thank you.
00:20 Settled in Dublin, looking forward to the game.
00:22 Excellent.
00:23 I imagine Dublin's quite a busy place this weekend, not just for the rugby, but St Patrick's
00:27 weekend as well.
00:28 Yeah.
00:29 It's a huge weekend in Dublin.
00:31 A sense of anticipation, both for rugby and, as you say, St Patrick's Day weekend.
00:36 So, it's a popular event.
00:38 It's certainly very busy in the town centre.
00:41 Good, good.
00:42 That doesn't help Scotland, does it?
00:44 The date of this match and what's on the line for the Irish as well, a potential title
00:50 win on St Patrick's weekend.
00:51 Yeah, it all seems to coincide, doesn't it, for Ireland?
00:55 They seem to have these big weekends built around St Patrick's Day and usually do quite
01:01 well off the back of it.
01:03 But yeah, I think it's an extra motivation and certainly helps the crowd get well lubricated
01:09 beforehand, I think.
01:11 Absolutely.
01:12 Both teams come into this match on the back of defeats last weekend.
01:17 Both teams were announced yesterday.
01:19 Ireland are unchanged, but Scotland have had a couple of alterations.
01:22 Can you talk us through those?
01:24 Yeah, just the two changes.
01:26 I mean, Gregor Townsend was keen to point out he wasn't about to make wholesale changes
01:32 because on the back of that disappointing performance against Italy, he highlighted
01:38 the good that had gone before in the wins over Wales and England and the good performance
01:44 against France as well when they were very unfortunate to lose.
01:48 So he's just made two changes.
01:51 Most interesting one being at Inside Centre where Stafford MacDowell comes in for Six
01:55 Nations debut.
01:56 He's got one cap previously, which was against Italy last summer in the World Cup warm-up
02:01 game.
02:02 But this is a huge match for him and a real reward for the way he's been playing.
02:06 He's been excellent for Glasgow over the last couple of seasons.
02:10 And Gregor Townsend says he's in for, well, first and foremost, the way he's been playing,
02:15 but also because I think he poses more of a physical threat than maybe Cameron Redpath,
02:20 who played at Inside Centre against Italy.
02:23 He expects it to be a really tough physical battle against the Ireland centre, Robbie
02:29 Henshaw and Bundy Aki.
02:31 And he feels that Stafford MacDowell is better equipped to deal with that.
02:35 He's also a real try scoring threat.
02:37 He's been good for him for Glasgow.
02:38 He's got three tries over the last couple of games, manning the match in both of them.
02:44 I think he's 26 now.
02:47 He's been captain Glasgow a lot this season in the absence of Kyle Steyn and has really
02:51 taken on that responsibility and deserves this chance, I think.
02:59 The other change is at Scrum Half, with Ben White returns as expected.
03:03 Gregor has arrested him last week, felt he just played too much rugby and brought George
03:09 Horn in for this late game.
03:10 But White's back and will start again with Horn on the bench and Ali Price dropping out
03:17 with the 23.
03:18 But they're the only two changes to the starting 15 that are made for this game.
03:22 As you say, Graeme, that's an indication that Townsend is reasonably happy with how the
03:27 team has performed in this tournament.
03:30 Therefore, it is important, despite Ireland being pretty warm favourites to win here,
03:35 that Scotland bounce back to firstly vindicate what Townsend's done with his team selection,
03:42 but also just stop any doubts creeping in that progress is being made?
03:47 Yeah, definitely.
03:49 It is a show of faith in this team and they really need to reward him.
03:58 This is by far the toughest game Scotland have got in the Six Nations this year and
04:03 Townsend said they have to deliver our best performance of the season to get anything
04:08 from it.
04:09 It's nine defeats in a row Scotland have had against Ireland and that World Cup match
04:15 still very fresh in the minds, where Scotland lost 36-14.
04:19 It could have been a lot more.
04:22 It looked, you know, the way the game started, it was running away from Scotland from about
04:28 the 20th minute and it did look at one point that they could be absolutely ripped apart
04:34 before they pulled off a slight second half revival.
04:38 Yeah, Gregor Townsend said yesterday Scotland will need to score at least 20 points to have
04:42 any hope on Saturday.
04:47 It is a tough, it's a very, very tough ask.
04:50 He also said Ireland have been virtually unbeatable at home over the last two years, during which
04:55 time they've been the top two in the world all the way through.
04:58 So if Scotland were to win it would be, I think, the best result of the times they've
05:03 ever produced as head coach over the seven years he's been in the job.
05:08 Absolutely.
05:09 But does that mean then that most people will accept the result is probably going to be
05:13 a defeat against this Irish team?
05:15 It's the manner of how Scotland bounce back and play that we're looking at.
05:19 Well, yes and no.
05:20 I mean, I think England showed last week that they're not invincible, you know, albeit that
05:26 England were at home.
05:27 But I don't know.
05:28 I mean, there's no reason why Scotland should be going in there with any sort of inferiority
05:35 complex, but it's just such a tough physical battle for Scotland.
05:41 And have they got the power up front to deal with Ireland?
05:46 I don't know.
05:47 I'd love to see it, but you've got to be slightly sceptical.
05:53 True.
05:54 In your piece today, though, you did mention as a positive that Undertowns in Scotland
05:57 have snapped long losing runs in England, in France and in Wales.
06:04 So this team has shown it can break the trend.
06:09 Let's talk about one man who's going to have a milestone moment, regardless of what happens
06:12 on Saturday.
06:13 Xander Fagerson, the prop, make his 67th cap against Ireland and that will make him outright
06:20 the top cap holder for a Scottish prop.
06:23 That's right.
06:24 Yeah, he takes, he would move one clear of Ewan Murray tomorrow, 67th cap, which is a
06:33 massive achievement for Xander Fagerson, who's still only 28.
06:38 So you look at WPNL playing on until he's 37, I think he is now.
06:46 Xander Fagerson could have another eight, nine years ahead of him.
06:51 So who knows how many caps he could win.
06:53 But he's a hugely important player for Scotland and it's a great achievement to become their
07:01 most cap prop of all time.
07:04 Is Xander Fagerson a little bit of an unsung hero in the Scotland team?
07:06 Because unlike a lot of props, he can last a long, long time in a match.
07:11 He's got good stamina, good longevity.
07:14 While he's in a couple of moments in a Scotland shirt in terms of yellow cards, ultimately
07:18 he's always picked and he's always a very solid person in the Scrums, isn't he?
07:23 Yeah, he's an absolutely vital cog for Scotland.
07:27 If they didn't have him, they'd be in a terrible position because it's such a specialised position,
07:33 tiehead prop.
07:34 And with WPNL struggling this season with an ongoing neck complaint, it's really brought
07:41 home how important he is, having to play a whole 80 minutes sometimes, which is a big
07:46 ask at this test match rugby and the toll that must take.
07:53 But yeah, he's hugely important for Scotland.
07:56 Yeah, of course, we're sitting here not of a gloomy complexion, but we're muted a little
08:01 bit.
08:02 But Scotland can technically still win the Six Nations, although it's fanciful to say
08:07 the least.
08:08 Can you talk us through the permutation Scotland would require to win the title?
08:12 Yes, I've tied myself in knots a bit with this over the last few days.
08:16 But yes, it requires a 77 point swing against Ireland.
08:24 So that's how far they are ahead of the points difference.
08:27 So Scotland need to beat Ireland, get a bonus point, deny Ireland a bonus point.
08:32 But the margin of victory has to be 39 points to overcome this kind of 77 points swing.
08:41 So that would put Scotland above Ireland, but then they'd have to hope that England
08:46 didn't beat Scotland's points total.
08:48 So that would mean them not beating France with a bonus point.
08:53 I think that's right.
08:54 Yeah, you've nailed that first time as well.
08:57 It is complicated and it's very, very fanciful, isn't it?
09:01 Yeah, I think Scotland would be happy with a last minute one point margin of victory
09:07 over Ireland.
09:08 And anything above that we'd bite your hand off for.
09:13 But yeah, yeah.
09:14 So your final captain's run of the Six Nations, Rory Darge, being put up again for press today?
09:20 I believe it is, yes.
09:22 He's been sharing co-captaincy with Finn Russell through this campaign.
09:28 But Rory Darge seems to be getting the lion's share of media duties.
09:34 So yeah, we'll be due to speak to him this afternoon down at the Aviva Stadium.
09:38 So interesting to see what he's got to say.
09:40 Absolutely.
09:41 Well, Graeme, I'll let you get on.
09:42 Thank you very much for joining us.
09:44 We'll have all the latest Scotland and Ireland news on the website and also in print across
09:49 the weekend.
09:50 Thank you for joining us and we'll speak again soon.
09:52 Bye for now.
09:53 Thanks.
09:53 Thank you.
09:54 Thank you.
09:55 Thank you.