Stefan Molyneux
  • 10 months ago
"What are your thoughts on college girls who repeatedly post bikini photos on their instagram, you know the college girl who rarely posts a photo where her cleavage and belly and thighs aren’t exposed, do you think these woman have done something immoral by engaging in this behaviour or would you say there is nothing wrong with the display of the human body and anyone who finds it immoral should find the guilt within themselves as they are the ones who perceive this display as sexual because there is at least objectively speaking nothing inherently sexy or immoral about the human body?"

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Transcript
00:00 Well, well, good morning everybody. Hope you're doing well. February the 1st, 2024.
00:05 Freedomain.com/donate to help out the show. I'd really, really appreciate that.
00:08 Question from Freedomain.locals.com. What are your thoughts on college girls who repeatedly post bikini photos on their Instagram?
00:16 You know, the college girl who rarely posts a photo where her cleavage and belly and thighs aren't exposed.
00:22 Do you think these women have done something immoral by engaging in this behavior?
00:26 Or would you say there is nothing wrong with the display of the human body and anyone who finds it immoral should find the guilt within themselves as they are the ones who perceive this display as sexual because there is, at least objectively speaking, nothing inherently sexy or immoral about the human body?
00:41 Boy, that's a tightly packed series of questions or statements.
00:48 And... sexy or immoral?
00:53 So, what's interesting, of course, is you talk about the human body and then you talk about college girl bikini photos, cleavage, belly, thighs, and so on.
01:05 So, the question, I think, around sexual display is very, very interesting. It's very interesting.
01:15 The societies that tend to be doing the best in terms of expansionism at the moment tend to be those that restrict the female display, right?
01:23 It doesn't have to be all the way to, you know, full body coverings, but, you know, there is that kind of restriction.
01:29 And the question is, why?
01:32 Well, the closest thing, of course, and I've used this analogy before, so I'll keep it brief, but the closest thing for men to understand is if, as a man, you post endless pictures of you in a private plane, you in your Maserati, you in your very expensive outfits and so on, you do all of this on social media, in public, or whatever.
01:57 And everywhere you show up, you've got the champagne room and you're drinking Dom Perignon and, you know, more wine for my friends, there's nothing but the best, that kind of stuff, right?
02:08 Well, that's a kind of sexual display of excess resources, right? Of excess resources.
02:15 Now, if you did that, if you continually, and it can also occur if you are very, very muscular and you shave your body and then you wear these muscle tees that expose your, you know, half your nipples and all that kind of stuff, right?
02:31 So, if you, as a man, display excess money, excess strength, excess status and so on, then it's going to be pretty hard for people to get to know you, right? To sort of get to know you as a person, because they're kind of blinded by the status.
02:52 They're kind of blinded by the status.
02:55 So, as a man, you have a choice, right? Let's say that you're very wealthy. As a man, you have a choice.
03:01 Do you display your wealth and gain attention, but at the expense of trust in the connection, right?
03:11 There's the easy and there's the challenging, right?
03:16 And the easy is, like sugar is easy happiness and learning to appreciate veggies and meat, whatever, right? And all of that.
03:26 Sitting on the couch is easy. Exercise is often, you know, it's a little dull and it's not something you would do if it wasn't good for you or anything like that as a whole.
03:35 I mean, like weights or whatever, right? I don't necessarily mean running around.
03:39 So, there's the easy and there's the hard.
03:41 So, for a man, it's easy to gain attention and it's easy to gain a female attachment, so to speak, by displaying wealth and status, right?
03:53 So, there was a radio host from long ago. He had a very big show in California and I think he did some online stuff.
04:02 I'm not sure what he's doing now, but of course, his name is Tom Likus.
04:05 He himself, he was married and divorced, I think three or four times. He was kind of obese, balding.
04:12 You know, he himself would say like, I'm not an attractive guy, but he was, I guess, relatively wealthy.
04:19 He was relatively famous and he slept with tons of women.
04:25 Now, this is his claim. I don't disbelieve him, but I think he had a thing for the fine Hispanic females.
04:34 But he would say, he would say basically, yeah, the women are just responding to my money and my fame.
04:41 And of course, we all know the groupie phenomenon. This happens in the music world.
04:48 Of course, this happens in the sports world.
04:50 You want to take a bath? This is a sort of famous scene with this sort of eye-wateringly attractive female in the Pink Floyd's movie, The Wall,
04:58 with shaggy-haired boomtown rats guy, Bob Geldof.
05:04 So, you can get a female attention, female lust. You can get sex by being wealthy and famous.
05:14 Either or, I guess the two sort of, I mean, if you're famous, you're usually wealthy.
05:18 But if, let's say that it's your money that the women are attracted to, that is, attracting women with money is like eating a bunch of sugar.
05:29 You get an instant high. It's instantly pleasurable, but it rots you.
05:34 It rots you out in the long run because you're saying, like the me plus stuff, right?
05:40 You won't be interested in me, but how about my money? You won't be interested in me, but how about my fame?
05:44 You won't be interested in me, but how about my status?
05:46 Now, of course, the man can say, look, the money is part of who I am. I shouldn't be ashamed of it.
05:51 And I earned this money. Let's say you earned it and didn't inherit it, just to make the steel man case as strong as possible.
05:57 I earned this money. I'm not going to be ashamed of making money and I'm going to enjoy spending it.
06:03 And money is part of, I'm proud of it. It's part of who I am.
06:06 It's a reflection of my work ethic or my risk-taking abilities or entrepreneurship or whatever it is, right?
06:12 Okay. And the money is a reflection of who you are and it's not dissociated or detached.
06:19 But there is always going to be something eating away inside of you, which says, are you interested in me or my money?
06:25 Are you here for me or my money? I mean, this is a great fear of men, right?
06:31 I mean, women have their own fears, which we'll talk about. But are you here for me or my money?
06:36 Tom Wolfe's novel, The Man in Full, explores this with a guy who's not particularly attractive, but very wealthy.
06:43 And he has a very attractive wife and then he loses his money in the saddlebag scene.
06:49 He loses his money. And what happens with his, what happens is his marriage, right?
06:54 Are you here for me or are you here for the money?
06:57 And again, I know there's a bit of a mind-body dichotomy here.
07:01 If you earned the money, good for you, man. Fantastic. I got no issue with that.
07:05 As long as you earned it honorably. So, if you've earned the money, the money is a reflection of you
07:11 and it is a part of your nature and the two aren't entirely separate.
07:16 But in the inevitable vicissitudes of the ups and downs in life,
07:19 you cannot pair bond with someone who's not there primarily for you.
07:24 Pair bonding is when you share virtues.
07:29 And again, the money is not entirely detached from your virtue.
07:32 You work hard, there's some virtue in that. You were honorable, you kept your promises,
07:36 you provided value, you know, I mean, you created jobs, you hopefully created a positive working.
07:41 I mean, there's virtues in that. So again, I'm not trying to detach the two.
07:45 I'm not a sort of money is the root of all evil kind of guy.
07:48 Greed for the unearned is the root of all evil, but not money itself.
07:52 So, because this is why the vows, the marriage vows, I just talked about them yesterday,
07:58 I guess the marriage vows are for better or for worse in sickness and in health, right?
08:02 We're in or we're out of the money, with you always, as the song says, right?
08:06 Because yeah, listen, surprise, surprise, shock value, there are ups and downs in life, right?
08:12 I mean, Bill Gates obviously is richer than God, but, you know, as far as I understand it,
08:19 his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein was one of the things that caused his wife to leave him, right?
08:25 So, there's ups and downs in life, and especially with sort of cancellations these days.
08:31 So, if I'd been a single guy when I was sort of the height of my prominence,
08:37 and some woman had gotten together with me because she just really loved the fact that I was somewhat famous
08:44 and recognized and all of that, and so then if I got canceled, would she be like,
08:50 "No, I'm going to move on to the next influencer," so to speak, right?
08:53 That's sort of an interesting question. It's an interesting question.
08:57 The morals that you accumulate, the good choices you make, your soul, if you want to call it that,
09:02 your nature, it's with you. It is you. Your morals become you. You become your morals.
09:09 And that, if people are pair-bonded on your virtues, then they will actually love you more if you suffer for your morals, right?
09:19 So, let's say you have a million dollars, and some business deal goes corrupt and immoral,
09:27 and you walk away and lose half your money.
09:30 Now, if the woman's just there for your money, then she will love you less because you have less money.
09:37 So, walking away from a corrupt deal that's gone really south or whatever it is, right?
09:42 Whatever costs you half your money, walking away from all of that, she's going to love you less.
09:47 Dead bless money. We can roughly say she loves you only half because you had a million,
09:54 now you have half a million, she loves you half. It actually would be less because some of that,
09:59 more of that excess was disposable income that she could use, right?
10:03 So, however, if a woman is there for your virtues, if the woman is there for your virtues,
10:09 then if you walk away from a corrupt business deal and lose half your money, she will love you more.
10:16 Ooh, do you see how this works? You see how this works?
10:20 Because being virtuous will cause ups and downs in your life.
10:25 Or, I guess having lunch with someone who turns out to be James O'Keefe can give you some ups and downs in your life.
10:32 But being virtuous will give you ups and downs in your life, which is why a lot of being virtuous
10:38 is making sure that the people who are around you are around you for your virtues,
10:43 and you're around for their virtues.
10:45 So, I'm talking about men here. I know that the question was about women. I'm talking about men.
10:50 So that the men can understand where the women are coming from.
10:54 The reason I need to say that is the women already know. The women already know this stuff.
10:58 The women already know if you pop half a boob out and give people the uncanny valley of endless cleavage,
11:05 give men that, then you'll get a lot of attention. You'll get a lot of attention.
11:09 And men will pursue you, men will ask you out, men will hunger for you, men will slide into your DMs, men will...
11:17 Hunger... like the thirst, hunger, right?
11:20 The reason it's called thirst and not hunger is thirst is more immediate, right?
11:24 Three days without food, three...
11:26 Three weeks without food, three days without water, three minutes without oxygen will probably end you.
11:33 So, the reason they say thirst is because thirst is more immediate.
11:37 So, women who are posting bikini pictures, young women, attractive women who are posting bikini pictures
11:46 are arousing lust in men.
11:48 And it's lust for the flesh, not for the soul. We know that, right?
11:51 It's lust for the flesh, not for the soul. Now, of course, you could say,
11:55 "Well, but you know, nobody, nobody is... it could be that these bikini girls are really, really virtuous."
12:03 And, I mean, however much we may want to laugh at that, obviously it's somewhat technically true
12:09 that it's potentially the case that a woman who posts endless thirst traps and cleavage and
12:15 butt-floss bikini shots is also very virtuous.
12:19 It could be, I suppose, technically the case or theoretically the case.
12:23 But it's the presentation.
12:25 If you are presenting your body, then you will gain a lot of attention,
12:32 but you will never feel loved.
12:34 Bodies are common, like everyone has them, but virtues are rare.
12:40 If you want to be loved, you have to be virtuous.
12:44 But the virtuous girls are in competition with the tits-and-ass girls, right?
12:53 The good girls are in competition with the bikini girls.
12:56 And one of the reasons why female modesty was such a value in the past,
13:02 and the more religious the culture, often the more important female modesty is,
13:06 is that it is very hard, if not downright impossible,
13:12 for a virtuous girl to compete with a bikini girl,
13:15 because a bikini girl, the male gaze and the male body assumes that
13:21 a mostly naked woman around him is about to have sex with him,
13:25 because we evolved in a state of more modesty than is around now, in general.
13:33 And so the male gaze of a naked woman is in my sight, right?
13:39 Again, we don't know much about pixels,
13:40 our bodies don't really know much about pixels, the internet.
13:43 A mostly naked female body that's in my view is a woman about to have sex with me,
13:49 and so the man loses his mind, right?
13:52 I mean, literally, right? The blood flow goes to the penis and away from the brain.
13:55 The man loses his mind, judgment is impaired, and all of that, right?
14:00 And female mating proximity, which is a mostly naked female,
14:06 or I guess a completely naked female, directly in your eyesight, that's mating.
14:12 That's mating.
14:14 And in general, I'm including in this,
14:17 if you are not already in a pair-bonded relationship, right?
14:21 I mean, if you're in a pair-bonded relationship,
14:24 and some other guy's wife is around in a bikini,
14:26 that's not because you already have your pair bonding, so that doesn't really count.
14:30 So we're talking about people not in a pair-bonded relationship.
14:32 Men.
14:34 So a man views a near-naked woman in his direct visual sight,
14:39 when he's single or not pair-bonded, as imminent sex,
14:45 or at least significant flirtation.
14:49 And the reason why we've generally told couples to not have sex until they get married
14:56 is because you want to pair-bond on virtues
14:59 before you finish the pair-bonding off with sexual activity.
15:03 So, of course, women know that the woman who flashes her body in a butt-thong bikini,
15:12 that she is going to get massive amounts of male attention and resources, right?
15:17 I mean, I'm sure you've seen this meme online of an average-looking guy with a giant fish,
15:23 and he gets like no comments and views,
15:25 but a woman in a bikini top with a small fish gets hundreds of likes and views.
15:34 So if there are women out there flashing their bodies around,
15:39 the virtuous women can't compete,
15:41 because virtue is more soft and subtle, and of course long-lasting,
15:46 whereas the immediate lust provoked by mostly naked women
15:50 is visceral and deep and mammalian and hormonal,
15:55 and, you know, it's sugar versus more subtle and refined flavors.
16:00 You know, it's stadium rock versus classical.
16:04 It's sitting on the couch versus exercising.
16:07 Immediate benefits, immediate stimuli, as opposed to longer-term, healthier benefits.
16:14 So it's not that it's immoral to post bikini pictures.
16:21 It's not a violation of the non-aggression principle.
16:24 However, it is a confession of the belief that virtue won't attract a man.
16:33 Now, this could be because the woman doesn't possess virtue,
16:36 and therefore has to resort to flashing boobs and butt,
16:39 or it could be because she has virtues, but, you know, in this race to the bottom,
16:43 she just doesn't get any attention.
16:45 I mean, take a sort of silly example.
16:47 If we say, "Oh, here's a woman who has boobs and butt out in a tight bikini.
16:54 How many likes, right? How many shares?"
16:56 Or, "Here's a woman who is reading to the blind in a conservative outfit."
17:01 I mean, that's a bit of a cliche virtue, but, you know, whatever it is, right?
17:04 Serving food to the homeless or whatever, right?
17:07 Going to church, whatever, right?
17:10 So, in a conservative outfit, here's a woman doing some good in the world.
17:14 We all know, as do all women, we all know,
17:18 which is going to get more likes, views, shares, right?
17:22 I mean, can you imagine setting up a competitor to only fans called goody-two-shoes,
17:28 or only virtues, where women fill themselves doing good deeds in conservative outfits,
17:35 and then men can view these videos.
17:38 So, they can either view videos of a woman putting a pickle up her ass,
17:41 or they can view videos of a woman doing good deeds in her community.
17:51 Lust does not lead to stable families, right?
17:55 Because the only thing that leads to stable families are shared virtues,
17:59 because we can only pair bond on virtues,
18:01 and virtues are strengthened by adversity, whereas lust is diminished by adversity.
18:06 If a woman is only with a man because he's wealthy, if he loses his money,
18:10 she's not with him anymore, so there's no stability in that.
18:13 If a woman is with a man because he's virtuous, and he loses his money in pursuit of virtue,
18:17 she loves him even more.
18:19 Because the virtues, our virtues we can control,
18:21 some of the financial ups and downs in life are a little bit beyond our control.
18:26 You've probably seen this meme of this woman who has, like, broke up with her boyfriend
18:29 because her boyfriend was just, "Oh," she's like, "All you did was,
18:33 I'm breaking up with you, all you do is sit around in 2014 talking about your stupid bitcoins."
18:37 And then in 2022, when bitcoin was up, or 2023, she's like, "Hey, how you doing?"
18:44 So, she's there for the resources.
18:46 So, when women gain male attention through lust, they cannot pair bond,
18:52 they cannot create stable relationships.
18:56 And the man, there's no sin in posting.
19:01 It's not immoral to post bikini pictures.
19:04 The immorality in general is what the bikini pictures lead to.
19:08 So, if a woman is putting her sexual persona front and center,
19:14 boobs and butt, right? Or whatever it is, right?
19:16 She's putting her sexual persona front and center, she's flashing her body.
19:20 Then the man, if he says, "Listen, I'm just here because you're hot,
19:24 I don't care about you as a person. In fact, I get that you don't really believe in virtue
19:28 because you're flashing your flesh." No, he can't say that.
19:31 It's the falsehood, "Oh, you're wonderful, you're so funny, you're so great, blah, blah, blah."
19:35 But it's all just penis talk to get the woman's legs apart.
19:39 Pry the Y open with falsehood is one of the fundamental strategies of men.
19:44 And yeah, you might have sex, you might get laid, but you do it through falsehood.
19:51 And then what happens is your sexual life becomes intertwined with lying.
19:57 And of course, women do it too, right? I mean, there's some tall, dark, and handsome guy
20:02 and they just say, "Oh, he's so sweet and he's so funny and he really cares about me
20:07 and he's just great and wonderful and loves his mother."
20:10 Like, they just make up stuff. "No, he's tall, dark, and handsome." Or whatever, right?
20:13 So, lust leads to lying. And lying leads to resentment.
20:20 Because if someone is... I mean, I don't know if you've ever had the situation in life,
20:24 I can think of a couple of instances in my life.
20:26 I don't know if you've ever had the situation where somebody's just lying to your face and you know it.
20:31 Somebody's just lying to your face and you know it.
20:34 Well, imagine that for six months or a year.
20:38 Somebody's with you because you're hot, but they have to tell you that they love you
20:42 and you're great and wonderful and this and that and the other.
20:44 And you know they're lying, you know they're just horny.
20:47 You know they're lying, you know that they're only claiming to love you when it's just lust.
20:50 You know they're only claiming to respect you when they're just horny.
20:53 And resentment and rage builds up.
20:56 And of course, we can see that as female body displays have increased,
21:02 so also has female rage, anger.
21:06 As female body flashing has increased, female contempt for males has also increased.
21:15 In this way, feminism and body display are bound together.
21:21 They're wound in together.
21:23 Because feminism says, "Yeah, you should be free, do whatever you want, you can flash your boobs and butt."
21:30 Or it happens because the consequences of sexuality have diminished through abortion, the pill,
21:35 and treatments for STDs and so on.
21:37 And so women flash their bodies because they're liberated,
21:41 and then they end up disliking men because men are lying to them as to why they're with them.
21:47 I mean you can see this in the old HBO show Sex and the City, as a continual process.
21:52 These women flash their bodies all the time and then end up disliking their boyfriends.
21:58 Of course they do.
21:59 Because the boyfriends are like, "Hey, you're so wonderful, you're so great, I love you, blah blah blah."
22:03 It's like, no, they're just flashing sexual availability, provoking male lust,
22:07 and then the men have to lie about it.
22:09 And then the women have to pretend that they believe the lies.
22:11 But then the women are always choosing the men based on looks,
22:14 but then they have to pretend that they're choosing the men based on their virtues.
22:18 So lust leads to lying, and lying leads to relationship instability.
22:24 Now of course the purpose of sex is the having and raising of children.
22:29 And so sex should lead to stability.
22:32 But sex that's based on lust, sexual activity that's based on lust, leads to hostility and instability.
22:39 And of course unwanted pregnancies historically, and sexually transmitted diseases, and so on.
22:46 And so lust leads to social breakdown.
22:51 Because lust denies the ability to pair bond, because the only pair bonding is virtue.
22:58 So it's not that it's a violation of the non-aggression principle to flash your body on social media.
23:07 It's sort of like, is it bad to go into a bar?
23:12 No, it's not bad to go into a bar.
23:15 Is it bad to go into a bar if you're a raging alcoholic?
23:19 Yes. Yes, because it's the beginning of the dominoes that lead to you.
23:23 Like, you know, if you're a raging alcoholic,
23:25 you have to leave everything with drinking culture behind you. Friends, bars, like everything, right?
23:29 This whole Sam Malone stuff is just made up nonsense.
23:32 So, is it bad to have a light beer? Not particularly, I don't think.
23:38 Is it bad to have a light beer if you're a raging alcoholic?
23:41 Yes, because it leads, where it leads, right?
23:44 Is it bad to have lust?
23:46 No, I mean certainly in a pair bonded relationship with a virtuous partner, lust is a beautiful thing.
23:52 Lust is part of the pair bonding that keeps you together.
23:54 But lust is a side dish. Lust is a dessert. It cannot be your meal.
24:00 Because lust alone is not stable.
24:02 And families, children, pair bonding, the healthy raising of children,
24:06 the security of society as a whole, the reduction of criminality and illness,
24:10 and again more unwanted pregnancies and single mothers and STDs,
24:14 all of that requires stable pair bonding.
24:17 And stable pair bonding is only possible in the land of shared virtues.
24:23 So, no, it's not immoral for a woman to show her cleavage.
24:27 But it leads to immorality.
24:30 Now, that which leads to immorality is not itself immoral in its nature.
24:35 But if you want to be moral, then resisting temptation is a lot easier.
24:44 Like avoiding temptation is a lot easier than resisting temptation.
24:47 So, for the raging alcoholic, to not go into the bar is a lot easier
24:51 than going into the bar and watching everyone drink and having his mouth water.
24:57 If you have a sweet tooth, as I do, then not having sugar in the place is a lot easier
25:03 than having sugar all around and repeatedly saying no to it.
25:08 With regards to affairs, it's just a lot easier if you're drawn to someone else
25:12 outside of your marriage. It's a lot easier to not go down that road
25:16 than to go down that road, have the woman half naked in front of you and then say no.
25:20 Philosophy is about prevention, not cure.
25:23 So, that which prevents the destabilization of society, that which promotes pair bonding,
25:28 that like if I'm for helping children, which is really the foundation of what I do,
25:32 if I'm for helping children, then lust erodes not just pair bonding in the relationship,
25:40 it erodes a woman's capacity to pair bond.
25:43 And we know this statistically, you can look at my video "The Truth About Sex"
25:46 for more on that. But it erodes a woman's capacity to pair bond.
25:49 She can't pair bond after a while and the stability of the family is destroyed.
25:56 So, I'm not sure what the word is for that which leads to destruction.
26:04 I mean, in the Christian world, temptation leads to sin, leads to destruction.
26:09 So, trying to found a relationship based on lust is like trying to found a healthy diet based on sugar.
26:17 Now again, nothing wrong with sugar, right? I mean, sugar is in fruit and fruit is good for you
26:21 and all of that, so nothing wrong with sugar.
26:24 But you can't base your diet on sugar, nothing wrong with lust,
26:26 can't base your relationship on lust.
26:30 So, the provocation of lust is the destruction of pair bonding.
26:34 The destruction of pair bonding is in the long run the destruction of society.
26:38 So, if you look at sort of the dominoes, right?
26:40 So, you post TNA, you get a lot of male attention, you get guys who sleep with you
26:44 but won't commit to you, you get bitter, you get angry,
26:47 eventually you maybe just marry some beta simp, you have a kid or two,
26:51 but you're unhappy, unsatisfied and you're still angry at all of the, right?
26:56 They call them alpha widows, right? The women who can get top tier men,
27:00 but only if they sleep with them, but they can't get top tier men to commit to them.
27:03 So, you're resentful, you're angry, you're upset, you're frustrated
27:05 and then you break up with your husband and then you're a single mom
27:09 and then you raise children who are more likely to be socially dysfunctional,
27:13 higher in traits of criminality and themselves, right?
27:16 So, it leads to disruption, dysfunction and destruction, right?
27:23 I mean, personally I think my wife is a great figure,
27:25 but when I met her she wore what she affectionately referred to as the tent, right?
27:30 The big baggy t-shirt. She wanted a guy to know her.
27:34 Yes, as it should be, in my humble opinion.
27:37 So, I would say that it's not immoral, but it is enormously unwise, right?
27:46 Is it immoral to eat sugar, to eat an excess of sugar?
27:51 It's not immoral, but it's unwise.
27:55 Is it immoral to not exercise? Nope.
27:57 Self-ownership, but it's unwise, extremely unwise.
28:02 So, yeah, I mean, I think that's how I would approach the topic.
28:07 And listen, I'm talking about women here as a man,
28:10 so I defer to the fairer sex and you can all let me know
28:12 if I hit the nail on the head to one degree or another,
28:16 but that would be my approach to the topic of the question.
28:20 So, of course, as always, I thank you so much for listening.
28:22 freedomain.com/donate to help out the show, join a great community.
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28:31 Alright, lots of love, take care everyone, bye!