Joe Nicholson is joined by Mark Lovell from the Pilgrims Podcast to preview Saturday's match between Sunderland and Plymouth at the Stadium of Light
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00:20 Hello and welcome to the RAW podcast brought to you by the Sunderland Echo. My
00:27 name is Joe Nicholson and we're back for another preview podcast ahead of
00:32 Sunderland's championship match against Plymouth at the Stadium of Light. So to
00:37 preview the game we are joined by Mark Lovell from the Pilgrims podcast. Mark
00:42 what's the mood like at Plymouth heading into Saturday's game at the Stadium of
00:46 Light? Alright Joe, yeah thanks for having me on. Well unusually for any away
00:53 game we are flying up to the north. Obviously we were involved in a really
01:00 tough cup tie in midweek against Leeds really inclement weather never got as
01:08 wet as I did on Tuesday. That was a real drenching and the players really left
01:13 everything out there. So we're taking this as seriously as possible allowing
01:19 as much rest for the team flying up which doesn't always happen for a club
01:25 of our size. So the players will be well rested we'll have a few new fresh legs
01:33 in midfield especially so we will give this our best shot and see how we go. We
01:40 are unbeaten under our new coach Ian Foster in 90 minutes. We lost in extra
01:47 time to Leeds of course which you may have been watching on the BBC and yeah
01:52 you know we've got nothing to lose on Saturday that's for sure. Yeah it's gonna
01:58 be interesting to see how it all pans out. You mentioned that game against Leeds that
02:03 was on on Tuesday night wasn't it and Plymouth were only able to name six
02:08 substitutes but I understand there's gonna be a few players coming back in a
02:10 few plays that were cup tied maybe a few that I think were injured or were kind of
02:15 given had personal reasons for missing the game as well so what sort of shape
02:19 are they coming into the game against Sunderland this weekend? Yeah those fresh
02:23 legs I was talking about so you see Adam Foreshaw ex of Leeds coming into
02:29 midfield another Leeds loney who couldn't play against his parent club
02:33 in midweek Darko Ghiabi they will be in midfield you'd have to think possibly
02:39 Alfie Devine who was cup tied he's on loan from Spurs yeah there's there's
02:46 others that were missing for personal reasons maybe Mikel Miller so we have
02:51 fresh legs to freshen it up which we will need because we were flat out on
02:55 Tuesday. Yeah of course that game went to extra time and it was the
03:00 first loss that Plymouth have had since the appointment of Ian Foster
03:04 who came in on the the 5th of January and since then in the league won two
03:09 games drawn one and then had those two cup ties against Leeds so has there been
03:14 a noticeable change since he's come in or still obviously early days but kind
03:19 of how has he done since he has come in and what is there any kind of any major
03:22 changes that he's made to to get those results? Well I hope I don't regret these
03:26 words but we seem to be better organized and less likely to ship horrendous
03:32 pathetic goals we have better shape we're defending better when we don't
03:38 have the ball he was a very renowned England coach out of possession coach so
03:46 he's he's stamped his authority on the team already maybe we're not playing as
03:50 expensive expansively maybe we're not as open but that can only be a good good
03:56 thing because we you know when the old manager Stephen Schumacher left for
04:02 Stoke which Sunderland fans will know all about because they lost Alex Neil
04:06 like that all of a sudden we were a little bit you know we were a little bit
04:10 worried you have to say and then we lost Finn Azaz he was recalled by Villa
04:17 and then Salterborough and he's been one of our best players this season this is
04:22 no mistake and then you know we were losing players and the squad was Fred
04:28 Bear but we have been able with the help of Ian Foster to stabilize the ship and
04:34 we're we're looking good now to avoid relegation that's for sure mm-hmm yeah I
04:39 think it's eight points clear now is it Plymouth are clear of the the relegation
04:43 zone of QPR who were 20 seconds so certainly the last two wins in recent
04:47 weeks have really helped them but in Ian Foster is a he's a former England
04:52 under-20s coach isn't he is is there even a feeling that he might even be an
04:55 upgrade on Stephen Schumacher as well as Schumacher did at Plymouth obviously
04:59 getting them up it's looking that way he's certainly you know you know reshaped
05:05 the squad going forward and he has great connections with the England you've set
05:08 up and you know we have this defender as well Ashley Phillips who looks who looks
05:13 just a total classy defender you'll see him on Saturday yeah as it stands at the
05:21 moment we might have this might be okay we might have got ourselves an upgrade
05:26 because he certainly he's a very astute operator and obviously this is his first
05:33 chance at you know in charge of a professional team at this level but it's
05:40 looking good that's for sure and you see Schumacher's results at Stoke and yeah
05:46 it's it's obviously not always a given that Foster would have stepped into his
05:52 shoes so astutely yeah still early days of course but the last time Sunderland
05:58 plays Plymouth back in November I think Plymouth were playing like a 4-3-3
06:03 formation under Schumacher I was just kind of looking at their recent matches
06:06 it looks like they maybe switch to to a back three again and wing backs and is
06:10 that how kind of Foster has set the side up recently yeah most definitely away
06:14 from home yeah we'll be a lot more compact and it may not be we shouldn't
06:20 be as open as we were because you know we were involved in so many goal fests
06:25 and it was great to watch great to watch no mistake but as a fan do you really
06:31 want to do you want to lose 3-2 or replay well and lose or do you want to
06:36 win 1-0 or we've just managed to get a first away win of the season at Swansea
06:42 Morgan Whittaker who's the Championship Player of the Month for January he got
06:47 the goal against his former club yeah we've played so many away games we
06:52 played really well and lost and the opposing managers said oh yeah Plymouth's
06:57 the best team to have been up here this season and it's just empty empty you
07:01 leave there empty we didn't deserve to win at Swansea but we got the breaks we
07:06 got the goal at the right time and we held on that's what we're looking for at
07:11 Sunderland you know Sunderland's gonna have a lot of the ball they're gonna
07:15 create chances we're gonna have to try and nick something which we weren't
07:20 capable of doing under Steven Schumacher we look more likely of being more
07:24 resilient under Ian Foster yeah we've certainly seen that a few times at the
07:29 stadium like where teams will come and sit deep and look to kind of hit
07:32 Sunderland on the break and I suppose Plymouth as well have players that can
07:36 hurt Sunderland, Sunderland fans will know all about Morgan Whittaker from that first
07:39 game back in November he's got an excellent goal at Home Park and just how
07:44 important has he been this season there was a bit of speculation over January
07:48 about maybe clubs being interested in him he's got 17 goals in all competitions
07:52 this season but just how important is it that Plymouth kept hold of him and and
07:56 how important is it to the team? Absolutely, paramount that we held on to
08:01 him he was yeah he's been holding our season together he is the joint top
08:06 scorer in the championship 16 goals Lazio came in with him rumoured bid of
08:11 10 million which I think Sunderland maybe can relate to Jack Clark was linked to them as well
08:18 I think they're quite similar players aren't they they both like to cut inside
08:21 onto their stronger foot yeah but Whittaker's got this you know he's got
08:25 the got the goals to show for his efforts this season 16 goals and you
08:29 know it's gonna take a lot more than 10 million euros to prize him away from
08:34 Home Park that's for sure and but he's a very unique individual Morgan Whittaker
08:39 because he could have left by now for sure if his agent was steering him in
08:44 that direction but he's a real quality young man and he loves being down
08:48 playing for Plymouth Argyle which is not always a given you know most a lot of
08:53 young players can't wait to leave at the first sniff of a big move so we were
09:00 really blessed to have him and can't wait to see how he performs at the
09:04 Stadium of Light well another player that's been playing regularly is Barley
09:10 Mumba a player that Sunderland fans will know all about came through the Academy
09:13 at Sunderland and then was sold to Norwich and has now ended up at Plymouth and has
09:17 been playing regularly this season now that game back in November that we
09:21 talked about I think he was playing as a as a left winger in kind of a 4-3-3
09:25 formation looks now like he's maybe got gone back into a wingback role so how's
09:29 he kind of done this season at Plymouth? Well he was signed as a joint record
09:34 signing along with Morgan Whittaker 1 million pounds which is unheard of you
09:39 know for us we were lucky to actually spend 15,000 pounds a few years ago on a
09:45 player so he he started off the season he scored a wonder goal against Huddersfield
09:50 on the opening day and that raised expectations to just such you know
09:56 massive massive and he couldn't really it was always going to be difficult to
10:01 fulfill those expectations you know and he's been solid absolutely fine Barley
10:07 Mumba but maybe he's just you know he's because Morgan Whittaker has been so
10:11 good his performance have come under scrutiny more scrutiny by the fans who
10:19 maybe especially after that wonder goal they're expecting that to happen every
10:24 week which is just not sustainable he's been absolutely solid really in in in
10:28 recent weeks especially under Ian Foster I think he's he's aware of his
10:33 positioning on the pitch some more he played really well against Leeds in
10:36 midweek and I expect him to have a good game on Saturday because he'll be
10:40 supported by his friends and family up in the north and he'll be looking to
10:44 impress I was watching the Sunderland 'Til I Die' documentary again and I
10:52 saw him on it I saw him jumping off the team coach on one of the away games so
10:57 yeah he has strong links to your club of course yeah obviously a third season of
11:03 Sunderland 'Til I Die' coming out as well in the not-too-distant future as well so
11:07 that's one's keeping an eye out for as well well you mentioned a few players
11:11 there but are there any other players that Sunderland fans should be looking out
11:15 for that are kind of key to this Plymouth side you mentioned their defensive
11:17 records improved in recent weeks well actually Phillips that we've got him on
11:22 loan from Tottenham he's you know he's the England under-19 captain he's you
11:28 know if he's just such an impressive athlete and already a leader at such a
11:34 young age he's one to watch if we get anything from Saturday we're gonna have
11:39 to rely on our goalkeeper Connor Hazard who stepped in for Michael Cooper's
11:45 unfortunately suffering with injuries this season Connor Hazard we signed from
11:50 Celtic for 150 grand and he's been solid we we need to rely on him to have a good
11:56 game if we're going to get anything from Saturday that's for sure he's been he's
12:01 been he's been decent this season that's for sure we usually just ask our guests
12:05 as well just how much have you seen of Sunderland this season obviously they
12:08 played that game at home park back in November but how much have you seen of
12:12 them and kind of what have you made of their season so far going into this game
12:15 well Sunderland's a club obviously I've watched like I said the Sunderland
12:22 till I die documentary studied all that Sunderland always huge expectations you
12:29 know most clubs Tony Mowbray would probably be still there and the fans
12:34 would be still very happy that he is still there obviously the board took a
12:39 different direction I'm not sure you know from afar it looks like Michael
12:44 Beale is struggling for acceptance among the the common fan results it's all
12:54 about results you know if Beale can get those results going and get get the fans
12:59 on side you know playoffs have to be the expectation for a club like Sunderland
13:09 absolutely we with what happened in midweek and you know the the energy
13:16 levels we're gonna be you know a point would be would be great for us you know
13:21 obviously we beat we beat you at home park you you had a lot of the ball you
13:28 had chances you didn't take your chances we had quality on the day we we took our
13:34 chances and that's what's you know end of the day if you can do that you're
13:37 gonna have a chance in this league and we've got players like Morgan Whittaker
13:40 the joint top scorer in the championship who couldn't who can make a difference
13:43 mm-hmm yeah yeah unfortunately that's been kind of although Sunderland are
13:48 sitting in a strong position only a point outside the playoffs that has been
13:51 kind of a familiar theme sometimes where they've had a lot of ball a lot of the
13:54 ball created chances but haven't been able to to take those chances but what's
13:58 kind of the expectation now at Plymouth we mentioned earlier that are now eight
14:02 points clear of the relegation zone is it still just to stay up or are they
14:05 trying to maybe build on that push for a top half kind of what's the thoughts
14:09 among the fan base I think we'd be very happy just to have a very stress-free no
14:17 relegation middle of the table run of the meal season and annoy a few high
14:24 profile clubs along the way and really stabilize in the championship and try
14:30 and push on next season I think you know last last season we were champions of
14:36 League One ahead of Ipswich in Ipswich you know you can look at their place in
14:42 the table it's just it's a we're still learning in this in this division you
14:48 know so to go there to go to Sunderland and compete and enjoy ourselves that'd
14:56 be good but we don't want to be a doormat we're gonna be solid we're
15:00 gonna be organized if we can nick at the first goal anything's possible because
15:04 then the Sunderland fans will you know they're like any big club they could
15:08 turn on their side turn on their own team you know doesn't take much mm-hmm
15:13 we spoke about earlier just about how the game's going to go we usually finish
15:17 by asking our guests just for a quick score prediction how do you think the
15:21 game's going to to pan out we spoke about how probably Sunderland have most
15:24 of the ball planets or sit deeper and try and hit them on the break but how
15:27 do you think the game's going to go on Saturday it would be very naive if I
15:32 tipped an Argyle win because that would be really tempting fate so I'm gonna go
15:38 for Sunderland three Plymouth Argyle one yeah because if you know I don't like to
15:47 tempt fate you know I'm hoping I'm hoping I'm gonna win of course I'm gonna
15:54 hope that Argyle win but you know the players have the quality to do so you
15:58 know they have a tremendous spirit you know they're really close-knit group
16:03 anything's possible but I'm not the sort of person who tips an Argyle win because
16:07 that's a recipe for disaster mm-hmm yeah well as you mentioned they are flying up
16:11 so that will give them a bit of an advantage after or it'll help them a
16:14 little bit after that tough game on Tuesday but I think I'll edge towards
16:18 a Sunderland win as well I think I'll go 2-1 but I think the first goal is gonna
16:22 be very important that Sunderland played at home against Stoke a couple of weeks
16:26 ago after they'd lost against Hull and there was kind of a backlash towards
16:30 Michael Beale and if they'd have conceded the first goal against Stoke I think
16:34 things would have got a bit very tense very quickly but unfortunately for
16:38 Sunderland they got the first goal and went on to win the game 3-1 but again if
16:41 if Plymouth do score first the atmosphere could change I think quite
16:45 quickly inside the stadium lights with the first goal is gonna be important but
16:48 I'm gonna go for a 2-1 Sunderland win but we'll see what happens on Saturday
16:54 Mark thanks a lot for joining me on the latest episode of the Raw podcast and if
17:00 you like what we do here at the Raw podcast you can leave us a review on
17:04 YouTube Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts and for all the latest
17:09 SAFC news you can head over to the SAFC section of the Sunderland Echo website
17:15 for all the build-up ahead of Saturday's match we'll also have live updates
17:20 analysis and more from the Stadium of Light as Sunderland face Plymouth Argyle
17:25 so once again thanks a lot for listening to the Raw podcast
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