NASCAR President Steve Phelps sits with Forbes Senior Writer Jabari Young at Nasdaq MarketSite for an in-depth conversation around the business of NASCAR, and the future of the sport.
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SportsTranscript
00:00 If you like auto racing, you will love the business
00:02 conversation we have coming up.
00:04 And it features the president of NASCAR himself, Steve Phelps.
00:08 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:10 Hello, everyone.
00:11 I'm Jabari Young here at the NASDAQ market site Forbes Talks.
00:15 And we are here with NASCAR president Steve Phelps.
00:18 Steve, thank you so much for joining.
00:20 I mean, this is a beautiful-- this is your first time
00:22 at the NASDAQ as well, right?
00:23 And so we're happy at Forbes.
00:25 We're able to bring you to the NASDAQ.
00:27 And thank you for coming all the way up from Daytona.
00:29 And then you were in Connecticut,
00:31 and now making your way to New York.
00:32 Appreciate the time.
00:33 My pleasure.
00:34 Great to be here, Jabari.
00:35 Absolutely, absolutely.
00:36 I mean, listen, 2024 season, right around the corner,
00:38 the 66th annual Daytona 500.
00:42 It's your sixth year as NASCAR president, right?
00:44 And I know you've been around the sport and the organization
00:46 for such a long time.
00:47 But what is it like being president now?
00:49 I mean, I'm sure you got it packed now,
00:51 going into your six.
00:53 Well, for starters, it's humbling being
00:56 the president of NASCAR.
00:57 I really-- I reflect on nearly six years.
01:03 And it's been quite a journey.
01:06 I think the cool thing for me is I started as a fan.
01:10 And that fandom, obviously, I've been in sports a long time.
01:13 I was at the NFL for a while, and Wasserman,
01:15 and been at NASCAR almost 20 years.
01:19 But being the president's a very-- I got a great job.
01:22 I got the coolest job on the planet.
01:24 I love it.
01:24 You got the coolest job on the planet?
01:25 I think so.
01:26 Really?
01:26 Roger Goodell, Adam Silver, nobody?
01:28 You got the coolest job.
01:29 For me, anyway.
01:30 For you.
01:30 For them, I would imagine they're feeling the same way.
01:33 Absolutely.
01:33 Absolutely.
01:33 So much to get into.
01:34 And I definitely want to retrace those times when you were a kid,
01:37 right?
01:38 Growing up in Vermont, watching NASCAR.
01:40 But again, 2024 season, Sunday, February 18, the Daytona 500.
01:45 What stands out about Daytona?
01:47 I know I love it.
01:47 Never been there before.
01:48 Want to go.
01:50 But it is this--
01:51 Going to get you there, for sure.
01:52 I'm going to come, Steve.
01:53 I'm on camera now.
01:54 You got me, right?
01:55 I know in conversations we've had in the past,
01:56 I've said it, but now I'm going to come.
01:58 I'm stuck.
01:59 On the record.
02:00 Absolutely.
02:01 Absolutely.
02:01 I mean, but this race is always one of the premier sporting
02:04 events of the year.
02:05 It may not get the hype like the Super Bowl gets,
02:08 or maybe the Game 7 and NBA Finals of the World Series,
02:11 but it is its own thing.
02:12 I remember when I was first getting into NASCAR,
02:14 when I was working at my previous location,
02:16 and I was really just geared into the sport.
02:18 Had a chance to visit the Dover track,
02:20 and I fell in love with it.
02:21 My daughter fell in love with it.
02:23 I was mesmerized.
02:23 I go around telling people all the time,
02:25 you know what my favorite daughter's sport is?
02:27 It's auto racing.
02:28 I lie to you not.
02:29 It is.
02:29 She loves the vibration.
02:30 She loves the noise.
02:31 She loves it.
02:32 And what kid doesn't like racing?
02:33 But the Daytona 500, this is the premier event.
02:36 Why is it so big, and what all these years still
02:39 stands out about it?
02:40 I think for us, just the history of what the 500 represents.
02:45 The facility's special.
02:46 It's iconic.
02:47 Daytona International Speedway.
02:50 The World Center of Racing, as we call it.
02:53 And then there's just something about that event
02:55 specifically.
02:57 So if you think about the start of NASCAR 76 years ago,
03:00 this will be our 76th season.
03:04 Big Bill France, Bill Sr., he started NASCAR.
03:10 They first started racing on the beaches of Daytona Beach.
03:13 And then he built Daytona International Speedway
03:17 in the late '50s.
03:18 And there was nothing like it at the time.
03:22 So 2 and 1/2 miles, 31 degree banking in the corners.
03:26 It is a spectacular show.
03:29 And so think of 40 cars, inches apart, three wide,
03:36 all the way back.
03:37 And the speeds are incredible.
03:39 NASCAR itself is a very sensory experience.
03:43 But when you race at Daytona, more than any other track
03:46 except for Talladega and Atlanta now,
03:49 they're so close together.
03:52 And you're going 200 miles per hour.
03:54 And you're kind of at the mercy of whatever
03:57 is happening beside you, behind you, and in front of you.
04:01 The racing's spectacular.
04:02 And then it's just a patriotic opportunity
04:06 for people to celebrate this country
04:09 and celebrate NASCAR and auto racing.
04:11 So I love the Daytona 500.
04:13 We start out with our biggest race of the year,
04:15 unlike stick and ball sports that
04:17 finish their year with their biggest events.
04:20 For somebody who's never tuned in,
04:21 what would you tell that person?
04:23 That they love racing, because who doesn't love racing?
04:26 Any time you go to an arcade, what's
04:28 one of the first games you go to?
04:29 The race car game.
04:31 But what do you tell someone who's maybe never consumed
04:33 the Daytona, never consumed NASCAR, but they watch this
04:36 and they could be curious about what it's like?
04:38 Yeah, I think for us, we want to--
04:42 to your point, we're going to get people
04:44 to put NASCAR in their consideration set.
04:47 And if we're able to do that through things like the Netflix
04:50 show, that full speed that's come out,
04:55 and it's just a kind of a love letter to NASCAR
04:59 and what happened in our playoffs last year,
05:01 and showcasing these personalities
05:04 and incredible racing.
05:06 And it's just--
05:08 I think it's different than what people think it is.
05:11 So when you go to Dover with your daughter
05:13 or any other race, or watching on television,
05:16 it's a very--
05:18 the experience itself when you go in person is different.
05:22 And we always say, hey, if you go to one NASCAR race,
05:24 you will be a fan for life.
05:26 And I believe that to be true, because the experience
05:29 is unlike anything else.
05:30 It's a very family, community, very patriotic.
05:38 And then there's the noise and the visual excitement
05:42 that comes with it, and touching all the senses.
05:45 You can smell it, see it, feel it.
05:47 You can touch a car, as long as you're not touching it too hard.
05:51 But it's just a great sense of community.
05:53 It is.
05:54 It really is.
05:54 I'm telling you.
05:55 Every time-- Dover got rained out last year, so I couldn't go.
05:58 And now, the year before that, the race
06:00 got rained out a little bit.
06:01 And so we spent halfway.
06:02 So I'm praying for good weather this year.
06:05 I know.
06:05 Dover's had a couple of tough years.
06:07 Yes.
06:07 I'm praying for good weather.
06:08 Monday finishes are no fun.
06:09 They're not.
06:10 They're not.
06:11 And so I got to maybe switch it to Dover.
06:12 We had four of those last year.
06:13 Absolutely.
06:14 I got to switch it to Dover.
06:14 And we're really close for a fifth, which
06:16 is our Chicago Street Race.
06:17 Yeah.
06:18 But listen, you see the excitement, even I, right?
06:20 And I'm not a hardcore NASCAR fan,
06:22 but I am a fan, have around the sport.
06:25 Maybe that is why the TV execs decided to give you
06:27 all a 40% bump as far as media rights.
06:30 That's no surprise.
06:31 Again, you re-upped $7 billion with the new partners
06:35 bringing in Amazon now, Warner Media still,
06:38 TNT Sports rebranded, Fox and NBC stick around.
06:42 I heard you say in plenty of interviews
06:44 how it was important that you have a good mixture of all
06:48 of those, broadcast, streaming, and cable.
06:52 Is that where the ecosystem is now,
06:54 where you must make sure that you have a little bit of both
06:56 and not maybe put too much towards streaming?
06:58 I think so.
06:58 I think it's a nice balance for us.
07:01 So our current partners that we have for our 24th season,
07:05 Fox in the first half, NBC in the second,
07:07 they clearly wanted to come back.
07:10 And we wanted them back.
07:11 So the incumbents, they essentially
07:13 gave up inventory, both of them, that we could create what
07:17 we'll call the summer series.
07:19 So Amazon with five, and then Warner Brothers Discovery
07:23 or Turner Sports, TNT Sports with five as well.
07:28 And then practice and qualifying might sound boring,
07:32 but huge numbers come and watch practice and qualifying.
07:35 So that will be on Amazon for the first half of the year
07:37 and on TNT and Max on the second half of the year.
07:40 And I think it's important.
07:43 You're kind of hedging your bet.
07:45 I think no one really understands
07:47 what's going to happen with the cable universe.
07:49 Streaming is clearly here to stay.
07:52 We thought Amazon was the right partner.
07:55 They are a force.
07:57 And I think you see what's happened with the NFL.
07:59 And I think people are surprised how well they've
08:03 done on the NFL.
08:04 And I think that Amazon Prime Video and the sports world
08:09 will have a long, long history together.
08:13 We're thrilled that they're here.
08:15 We think we had a great mix.
08:16 And then we actually have a fifth media partner, The CW,
08:21 who will do all the--
08:23 Partly owned by Paramount and Warner,
08:25 so it's a good media mix that you have there.
08:29 We're really excited about what 25 is going to be for us.
08:31 Absolutely.
08:32 We'll bridge in 24 to get to 25.
08:35 And we're in a phenomenal year this year.
08:36 I'm not trying to get ahead of myself.
08:37 No, no, no.
08:38 Listen, we've got an election year to get through.
08:39 Right?
08:39 There's a lot of stuff that's got to happen in 2024, Steve.
08:42 So let's hope we can get to 2025.
08:44 But here again at the NASDAQ market site, when you-- again,
08:47 feeding off that conversation about media rights,
08:49 when you look at the landscape, what do you see?
08:51 We just was talking about Amazon.
08:53 I've been impressed with them.
08:54 When they first got into the NFL, it was a little bit sticky.
08:57 I mean, the streaming was a little bit--
08:59 but they've gotten better.
09:00 And now you hear that they are getting into the RSM business.
09:03 And it only makes sense.
09:05 We know what geofencing is.
09:06 And they know where their consumer is.
09:08 And it only makes sense, I thought, for a very long time
09:10 that Amazon's in.
09:11 But when you look at the media landscape,
09:12 having just come off a media deal, what do you see?
09:15 Well, I would say, in a word, the media landscape last year
09:20 and now is challenged.
09:22 And we've seen that.
09:23 There are-- I mean, the PAC-12 doesn't exist today
09:28 because of the media rights market
09:30 and how difficult it was.
09:32 And that's hard because it was--
09:36 up until 18 months ago, it was a very frothy market.
09:40 It just was.
09:41 It was white hot.
09:43 And the rights fees were going up and up and up.
09:46 So for us, in a very difficult market,
09:49 five of the top six largest deals in sports media
09:53 last year were ours.
09:55 And we're proud of that.
09:56 And I think it speaks to where the sport is.
10:01 Right now in sports, it's really must-have versus those
10:05 that are not must-have.
10:05 So premier properties like ours are
10:08 able to drive significant fees.
10:12 And if you really are not in that kind of rarefied air,
10:16 it's difficult. You're going to make difficult decisions
10:18 on distribution.
10:19 There will be difficult decisions on money.
10:21 And what is it that you want to do?
10:23 And what is most important to your property?
10:26 So for us, the next seven years of these media rights partners
10:31 that we have, these partnerships,
10:34 we need to make sure that we continue to grow the sports.
10:38 Attendance up for us.
10:39 Ratings are strong.
10:41 I think we're going to have the best year we've had in a decade
10:46 in '24.
10:46 I really believe that.
10:47 I think the ratings are going to continue to increase.
10:50 We had 50% more sellouts last year
10:52 than we had the year before.
10:53 We are a sport that continues to innovate and being bold.
10:59 That's leading to successes.
11:00 And we need to continue to do that.
11:02 I know NASCAR is very private with their attendance figures.
11:05 But if you can give me an average or an estimate
11:07 as to how the attendance has been over the last two years,
11:10 what would that number be?
11:11 I think last year we were up 8% across all NASCAR Cup Series
11:16 properties.
11:17 I think we'll see--
11:18 8% from the previous--
11:19 --from the previous year.
11:20 I think we've budgeted another 7% up this year.
11:25 We had 12 sellouts last year.
11:29 We had six the year before.
11:30 We are going to have more.
11:31 We've already announced--
11:33 Daytona 500 sold out 2 and 1/2 months ago.
11:36 Our race in Iowa, which will be the first time we've
11:38 raced in Iowa in a Cup race, that sold out.
11:41 Our championship race will be sold out probably by March.
11:47 You can feel that momentum coming.
11:48 And when you go to the racetrack,
11:50 it has an energy level that we just haven't seen in a decade.
11:54 And every year, you can feel it getting better and better
11:57 and better.
11:58 So it's exciting.
11:59 Take me back.
12:00 You grew up in Vermont.
12:01 And a young Steve Phelps at age five
12:04 saw your first NASCAR race.
12:06 Speed Racer was your favorite show.
12:08 Why Speed Racer?
12:10 I'm not really sure.
12:12 Maybe it was that love of racing.
12:14 And so my brother and I was a year older,
12:16 and we'd watch Speed Racer.
12:18 So yeah, I went with my dad.
12:20 He took us to our first NASCAR race, a small racetrack
12:26 in Milton, Vermont, called Catamount Stadium.
12:30 And my dad, who was from Vermont,
12:32 and actually the town that was in Milton, Vermont,
12:34 that's where he was born.
12:35 And so he was nice enough to say, hey, you're
12:37 going to root for these two guys who were from Milton.
12:40 And I'm like, I'm not rooting for them.
12:41 I'm rooting for the white number five car, like Speed Racer.
12:43 And he's like, no, you're not.
12:45 I secretly did.
12:46 I just didn't tell him.
12:49 It was-- I love NASCAR.
12:51 I've always been a big NASCAR fan.
12:54 It kind of gets in your blood.
12:56 And so for me, I certainly approach my job as what it is.
13:01 It's a business.
13:03 But I think if you look through that fan lens,
13:06 I think it's a good perspective to have.
13:09 And so I try to do that in all the decisions that we make.
13:12 Well, we have something in common,
13:13 because when I was young, too, I also wanted to be a fireman.
13:15 I heard the trucks.
13:17 I saw them.
13:17 Oh, that's cool.
13:18 I wanted to be a firefighter.
13:19 But listen, you grew up, and you went
13:21 to the University of Vermont, Boston College
13:23 after that to get your business degree.
13:25 And you start working at American Home Products,
13:29 where you were in charge of the Chef Boyardee brand.
13:32 And I'm like, wow, this was the guy
13:34 that was getting me to buy all of these freaking ravioli
13:37 cans, huh?
13:38 You were the guy that was--
13:39 what was that time like for you when you were--
13:41 It's a pretty sexy brand.
13:42 It really is.
13:44 I think it was a great opportunity for me
13:49 to learn marketing on the brand side.
13:53 I was there for three years, and then I
13:55 went to Guinness for a little bit,
13:57 and then started the NFL deal.
13:59 But listen, working on the Chef Boyardee brand--
14:03 it was a billion-dollar brand at the time.
14:05 And cutting your teeth in what it
14:08 was to be a brand marketer, that was really important.
14:12 And I learned a ton.
14:14 And that really helped me.
14:17 I wanted to get in sports my whole life,
14:19 because I thought it'd be really cool, because I love sports,
14:22 I love participating, I love watching.
14:24 And then I had an interest in business,
14:26 and so I thought, hey, I can combine and do
14:29 this sports marketing.
14:30 I didn't even know what that meant, honestly.
14:33 But it seemed to have worked out OK.
14:36 But yeah, right here in the city.
14:38 Absolutely.
14:39 685 3rd Avenue.
14:40 Yeah, well, listen, not too many people
14:42 can say that they've spent a lot of years in NFL.
14:44 And before you go to Washington, that's
14:45 where that time was spent.
14:47 But I noticed-- and talk about that in a minute,
14:49 because I really want to get your opinion on leadership
14:51 pipelining.
14:51 But you hit a wall in the NFL, where
14:55 no longer your trajectory was done,
14:58 and you wanted to do more.
15:00 Take me at that process.
15:01 How do you get over that, and how do you talk yourself maybe
15:04 to not staying?
15:05 Because a lot of times, I think, maybe as an employee,
15:07 you get to a place, you look around,
15:08 you can't go anywhere, you've got to stay.
15:10 But how does a Steve Phelps get out of that?
15:13 Yeah, so when I left the NFL, the last seven years
15:15 I was at the NFL, I ran their corporate marketing
15:18 or sponsorship group.
15:20 And I loved it.
15:21 I loved working at the NFL.
15:24 That badge, that shield, and what it represents,
15:28 it is the pinnacle of sports in this country.
15:31 And it's hard to leave, because it's not that I didn't work
15:39 hard, I did work hard.
15:41 And every day, I brought the energy level
15:44 to try to make it better.
15:46 With that said, I thought I could do more,
15:48 and I wanted to do more.
15:50 So I made the difficult decisions.
15:52 Like, you know what?
15:53 I need to start to look at other opportunities.
15:55 And Casey Wasserman had called me,
15:58 and I thought that was the right thing to do.
16:01 And I went and talked to Roger about it.
16:04 He and Casey are good friends.
16:07 And I made the difficult decision
16:10 to leave, which was the right decision for me in hindsight.
16:14 It was the right decision at the time, but clearly it was.
16:17 And I was with Casey for a year.
16:19 I love Casey Wasserman.
16:20 He's a great businessman, a really good guy.
16:25 And then NASCAR came calling, and I said, you know what?
16:29 I love myself some NASCAR.
16:30 I'm going to go.
16:31 That's really--
16:31 Yeah, and I did.
16:32 Did Speed Racer pop back up in your head
16:34 when you got the call from NASCAR?
16:35 I don't think, more just NASCAR fan.
16:38 And that's kind of a neat deal.
16:40 And I think, if you think about my background
16:42 in that kind of marketing, sponsorship,
16:45 what better place than at NASCAR?
16:48 Because we love ourselves some sponsorship at NASCAR.
16:51 Absolutely.
16:52 Which is great.
16:52 It's representing brands on the cars,
16:59 as officials at our facilities.
17:03 Sponsorship is kind of the lifeblood
17:06 of what it means to be a NASCAR.
17:08 So here you are in 2005, where you get to NASCAR,
17:12 and you quickly find yourself elevating, right?
17:14 Chief Operating Officer, Chief Marketing Officer.
17:16 And in 2018, you get promoted to president.
17:19 And again, working your way up the ladder.
17:22 What advice would you have for that individual that maybe
17:25 is starting off in a company in 2005,
17:27 like you were at NASCAR, trying to work their way up
17:30 to a president's position?
17:31 How do you get there?
17:32 And what advice would you give that person that maybe wants
17:35 to follow in your footsteps?
17:37 For me, everyone's different, right?
17:39 And everyone has their own management style,
17:42 their own leadership style.
17:45 For me, at the base of all of it was really the work ethic
17:51 that was really strong.
17:53 And so when I started American Owned Product,
17:55 I made a pact to myself that I was not going to be outworked.
17:58 Was it over Chef Roy D when you made the pact?
18:00 It was.
18:00 It was, OK.
18:01 It was, yeah, the chef.
18:03 And that was important.
18:04 And that-- listen, I'm not the smartest guy on the planet.
18:09 I know that.
18:10 But I'm not going to get outworked.
18:12 And then really it's just the relationships that you build
18:17 was an important part of that too.
18:18 So if I say I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it.
18:21 And I think that people saw that I was sincere.
18:24 I cared about them and cared about the business.
18:27 And you combine those two things.
18:29 And that is, I think, a significant part
18:33 of my success.
18:34 So I think there's no--
18:37 different people have different ways
18:38 to get to wherever they're going to get to.
18:40 So no two people are alike.
18:42 Again, leadership style.
18:43 My leadership is I want to lead from the front.
18:46 And I want people to see that I'm not
18:50 going to ask them to do something I wouldn't do myself.
18:54 And I have.
18:55 And that's an important part.
18:57 Absolutely.
18:57 Yeah.
18:58 We're going to be disruptive.
18:59 We're going to be bold.
19:00 We're going to do things our authentic way.
19:02 We're not the NFL.
19:03 We're not the NBA or NASCAR.
19:06 Those were the words you told me in 2001,
19:09 when me and you spoke.
19:10 And when you get promoted to president in 2018,
19:15 who would have ever known that you would have to face what you
19:17 have fought the country, the world, in March 2020 on out?
19:22 But I know you guys were in an interesting time.
19:24 You had banned the Confederate flag.
19:25 You were going through some turmoil.
19:27 Look back at 2020.
19:29 Where has NASCAR gone?
19:30 Where is it at?
19:31 And where is it going now?
19:34 Yeah, I think-- so the previous fall,
19:37 we had merged with our sister company, which
19:39 was a public company that owned the 12 racetracks.
19:41 Yes.
19:41 International Speedway, right?
19:44 Yeah.
19:45 International Speedway Corporation.
19:46 That's correct.
19:47 And so we merged with ISC in October of 2019.
19:53 And as the calendar flipped to Jan 1 of 2020, I'm like,
19:57 I've got to put these two companies together.
19:59 It's going to be super difficult. That's
20:01 going to be the number one most difficult thing
20:03 we're going to face in 2020.
20:05 Well, not so much.
20:06 Yeah.
20:08 March 13th happens.
20:09 We shut down in Atlanta, which is where
20:11 we were racing that weekend.
20:13 And then my SEMER team and I, following Monday,
20:16 we started to build a plan to be the first sport back
20:21 to competing, which we were.
20:23 And so mid-May of 2020, 72 days after we had shut down,
20:29 we went to Darlington Raceway, and we raced.
20:33 And then three days later, we raced again.
20:36 And then five days later, we raced again.
20:38 And that was the start of it.
20:41 And so we were the first sport back to competing,
20:43 major sport back to competing, during COVID,
20:46 and the first sport back to competing
20:49 in front of race fans, which we did in June of that year
20:52 on a limited basis.
20:54 But it was really the events of June 2020
20:57 that I think will forever change the trajectory of where
21:01 the sport goes, right?
21:04 And it has changed it, which was--
21:07 and the stance we took on social justice,
21:09 we banned the Confederate flag in that same month.
21:13 What had happened around Talladega and Bubba Wallace
21:17 and the noose that was found in the garage, which ultimately
21:23 had been there before.
21:24 We didn't know that at the time.
21:25 But it really-- what has happened to this sport,
21:29 you can point to June of 2020, where the success that we've
21:33 had since that time and our efforts in diversity, equity,
21:37 inclusion, and being true to that mission
21:40 has led to significantly more fans, younger, more diverse,
21:45 more women.
21:48 So just from a fan base standpoint,
21:50 that's working from an ownership base, right?
21:52 Michael Jordan, Pitbull becoming owners of the sport.
21:59 The corporate base continues to change.
22:01 We are in a different place than we were.
22:04 And I think if you look at the single most important thing
22:09 that happened in the sport, obviously when it was founded
22:11 by Bill Sr., I actually think June of 2020
22:15 will change for us.
22:18 I think it's actually the second most important thing.
22:20 And then you combine that with a COVID world
22:22 and what we were able to do with the pandemic
22:24 and getting back to racing.
22:25 It was a very, very important year for the sport.
22:29 And I'm proud of what my team and I were able to accomplish.
22:33 And importantly, not just NASCAR,
22:35 but our race teams, the racetracks we don't own.
22:39 You really had this coming together
22:41 of an entire sport that made that work, which was--
22:48 it was scary times, for sure.
22:50 Absolutely, when you think about that time, Steve,
22:53 and you look, and we've had some success
22:55 and then it feels like we're reneging,
22:57 and you hear diversity, there's war on diversity.
22:59 When you look at where we are as a country,
23:01 do you feel that there's war on diversity?
23:03 And if it is, how does NASCAR go about it
23:06 where you guys are fighting back saying we're not
23:08 going back to where we were?
23:10 We are not going back.
23:11 I say it right now, we're not going back to where we were.
23:13 Our whole thing is about being welcoming.
23:15 Yeah.
23:16 Welcoming environment, we said in 2020.
23:18 Absolutely.
23:18 So when you come to a racetrack, your daughter
23:21 comes to a racetrack, that you feel welcome.
23:23 And everyone, honestly.
23:25 And that's what you should--
23:26 this is supposed to be a great escape.
23:28 And so that's what sports does.
23:31 And I think our experience is a really cool experience
23:34 at racetrack.
23:36 But we're not going backwards.
23:38 We've had significant success.
23:40 And we're not trying to exclude anyone or make
23:43 anyone feel uncomfortable.
23:45 So if I'm a long-term race fans, what long-term race fans love
23:50 is to have a newbie come on property and say,
23:54 hey, who's your favorite driver?
23:56 I don't have one.
23:57 Well, this is who you should be rooting for.
23:59 Here's a beer.
24:00 Here's a Coke.
24:01 Or here's a hot dog.
24:02 That's what our community is about.
24:04 They want to have people come.
24:06 And they want to embrace that, by and large.
24:08 Listen, you're going to have bad apples anywhere.
24:10 You just are.
24:11 Absolutely.
24:12 But we're committed to it.
24:14 We're going to be committed to it for decades to come.
24:16 Absolutely.
24:17 When you look at the sport again, as a--
24:18 when I went to Dover, I'm not going to lie,
24:21 you see some Confederate flags.
24:22 They're on the outside of the property.
24:24 I can't stop that.
24:26 People, we do live in a country where we say, hey,
24:28 you are entitled to your opinion.
24:30 Comes with consequences if it's the wrong opinion,
24:32 and you speak loudly about it.
24:33 But you're entitled to it.
24:34 And my daughter asked the question.
24:36 I will tell her what it is.
24:37 But I can't lie.
24:38 Steve, we didn't have any problems.
24:40 We felt welcoming.
24:41 There were fans there.
24:42 We were having conversations.
24:43 There was none of that.
24:44 Even maybe the person who was outside,
24:46 who I didn't see, that might have been his Confederate flag.
24:49 We're at a place now where it's like, you know what?
24:50 Maybe we have to have that dialogue again.
24:53 And I feel like maybe NASCAR, it can start there.
24:55 Because again, you're showing up, and I am.
24:57 Me, I'm showing up.
24:58 And I'm like, man, this is a really crazy--
25:01 but again, we had a phenomenal time there.
25:03 My daughter always, always wants to go back.
25:07 Yeah, I find it--
25:08 going back to 2020, I think this is the part that I'm
25:14 most proud of in some ways.
25:15 And in some ways, it kind of makes you pause.
25:20 So I heard from a number of people
25:22 doing interviews or whatever.
25:23 And they say, you know what?
25:25 If NASCAR can do this, can't any company, can't any sport--
25:30 if NASCAR can embrace diversity, equity, inclusion,
25:34 or be part of the social justice reckoning, can't anyone?
25:40 And I think as a brand, it changes perceptions
25:44 of our brand.
25:45 And we're doing that all the time,
25:46 whether you're talking about D&I,
25:49 or you're talking about the race car itself, the racing itself,
25:53 schedule variation, racing in our first street course
25:57 in Chicago.
25:58 We want to be bold and innovative.
26:00 We want to be a disruptor.
26:02 And that's what we're doing.
26:03 So we get to a place where people
26:05 are thinking differently about us as a brand--
26:08 not us as a sport, but us as a brand and what we represent.
26:12 And I think for us, we're getting people
26:16 in the consideration set.
26:17 And that's all we can do.
26:19 And we get them there.
26:20 They come to the racetrack.
26:21 They watch on television or in some other form
26:23 of engaging digital, social, whatever that might be.
26:27 And that's what we need to do.
26:28 And so that's what we're going to continue.
26:30 My mom yelled at me.
26:31 She said, next year, I want to go to Dover.
26:32 So she's a fan as well, too.
26:34 Listen, a couple more things before I get you out of here.
26:36 Because listen, we are in New York.
26:38 And I want you to beat the traffic.
26:39 I don't want anybody to get stuck in this New York traffic
26:42 here at the NASDAQ market site.
26:45 Is there anything that NASCAR is doing from the leadership
26:48 pipeline standpoint?
26:49 I talked to the Cleveland Cavaliers CEO, Nick Bartlett,
26:51 who's a very good friend.
26:52 And I know the Cavs are tying in compensation
26:55 when it comes to diversity within leadership pipeline
26:58 and making sure that women get their opportunities.
27:00 Is there anything NASCAR is doing that maybe the industry
27:03 can take and mimic?
27:03 I think for us, you need to be intentional about it.
27:06 So listen, do we have a number of people who look like me
27:11 in senior leadership?
27:12 We do.
27:13 But we also have people of color.
27:15 We have women.
27:16 We are true to making sure that we are diversifying
27:22 our workplace at all levels throughout our organization.
27:28 So one of the things we do on an annual basis,
27:31 we have 36 diverse interns that work in our industry,
27:38 not just at NASCAR, but race shops, race teams, race tracks,
27:44 and at NASCAR.
27:45 And we typically will hire at least 10% of those full time.
27:53 And it's just one small way to do that.
27:55 But we've been doing that for 15 years.
27:58 But it's really, again, you need to be intentional about it.
28:01 We are.
28:01 And why is it important?
28:03 It's important because it makes us better, right?
28:06 Diversity of thought, just getting different opinions
28:10 about how people think differently
28:14 about certain situations.
28:17 And that leads to more success.
28:19 And so we've had a lot of success.
28:20 I think that's a big part of it.
28:21 We're only as good as our people, honestly.
28:24 Absolutely.
28:24 And listen, you guys do a great job showing up every year,
28:26 too, at the National Association of Black Journalists
28:28 conference every year.
28:28 You're there.
28:29 I see your logo.
28:30 And so thank you for that.
28:32 Whereas we have this conversation,
28:33 ready to wrap it up.
28:34 It's coming during Black History Month.
28:36 And now, obviously, NASCAR has its own history.
28:39 Black drivers, Ellis Bowie Jr., Charlie Scott,
28:41 Wendell Scott, amongst the first black drivers.
28:44 And now we have Bubba Wallace.
28:46 You mentioned Michael Jordan, who is really not associated
28:49 with the NBA anymore, but more associated
28:51 than NASCAR nowadays.
28:52 He was at the All-Star Game that year,
28:54 but people didn't see he was at Daytona 500 first.
28:57 Got on a jet and came back.
28:59 But listen, you want to see more black drivers.
29:02 I know I want to see more black drivers
29:04 because my daughter, in that very pit,
29:06 we were behind the scenes.
29:07 And she's looking.
29:08 And she's, dad, that's Bubba Wallace.
29:10 And her eyes lit up.
29:12 How can you go about doing that?
29:13 How can we start to lure more people of color, black drivers,
29:16 maybe even more women, into the sport?
29:18 Well, we've had a program that's almost 20 years old--
29:20 I actually think it's 20 years old this year--
29:23 called Drive for Diversity.
29:25 And it gives people of color and women or girls
29:30 the opportunity to get behind the wheel.
29:33 And it's successful.
29:34 We've had three high-profile drivers
29:37 at our Cup Series that are all winners.
29:39 Kyle Larson, who was a champion, Bubba Wallace, and Daniel
29:42 Suarez all come through that program.
29:45 And we've got folks that are going through it right now.
29:48 The class is picked for this year.
29:50 And it's a jump start for them to get behind the wheel
29:55 and get what we call seat time.
29:58 But it's important.
30:00 So we've got a pipeline of young men and women
30:04 who are coming through that program that
30:07 are getting opportunities.
30:08 Young man Raja Karuth, who races in our Crafts and Trucks
30:13 Series.
30:14 And great young man.
30:16 He's going to be a star.
30:21 Bubba's fantastic.
30:22 And I was so proud of how he carried himself
30:27 in 2020, which was brutal.
30:30 The attacks that he underwent, he did it with grace
30:37 and courage.
30:37 Yeah.
30:38 Yeah.
30:38 We talk about diversity of thought.
30:40 I want to get your diversity of thought.
30:41 Again, we switched.
30:42 One of the big deals, switching it back to business,
30:45 was the WWE Netflix deal.
30:47 I know you guys have shows on Netflix coming.
30:49 When you see that deal and bringing it
30:52 full circle in the business, what are we seeing
30:54 and what does that signal?
30:56 No, I think it's great for all sports.
30:59 And so obviously, that's sports and entertainment
31:02 in the mix of the two.
31:03 But having Netflix getting into that space,
31:07 really for the first time, because they haven't really
31:09 been in there in sports per se.
31:12 Obviously, their follow docs and whatnot, their docuseries
31:15 are tremendous.
31:18 And we are excited about ours.
31:21 Full speed is just a really--
31:23 it's awesome.
31:23 Well, anywhere in your new media deal,
31:25 does it say anywhere that Netflix can possibly
31:27 come in as a live partner?
31:28 So we have opportunity.
31:30 So the great news is that we have the deal with Amazon.
31:33 We're doing a-- we did a show with them.
31:37 Or they did a show with us last year around Garage 56,
31:40 and a project that followed our next gen car going to Le Mans,
31:44 the 24 Hours of Le Mans last June.
31:47 So that would be a really cool thing that's
31:48 going to happen sometime probably in May or June.
31:53 But yeah, listen, content's huge.
31:55 We just opened a brand new productions facility
31:58 in Concord, North Carolina, outside of Charlotte,
32:00 next to our R&D facility.
32:02 It's going to be amazing for two things, live event production
32:06 as well as content creation.
32:08 It is a world class production facility.
32:11 And we're going to have some really cool content that's
32:14 coming out of that building.
32:15 When you say content, and we talk about Netflix,
32:17 speaking of that, there is another competitor on Netflix
32:20 by the name of Formula One.
32:21 Right now, they're up to three events in the US.
32:24 I would anticipate that they were increased.
32:26 They own a media company in the US, right, in Liberty Media.
32:30 Any concern that Formula One is on the US territory,
32:33 and they're invading NASCAR's turf?
32:36 This is business, and I'm sure--
32:38 but is there any concern, or is there--
32:40 there's more-- there's a lot of room to go around,
32:42 and you can maybe get both parties?
32:44 I think it's the latter.
32:45 I actually think about--
32:46 if you think about where motorsports was in 2018--
32:49 Yeah.
32:50 --in this country, it was in trouble, right?
32:53 NASCAR wasn't-- we weren't doing well.
32:55 We kind of hit the bottom, and now we've bounced back up.
33:00 IndyCar struggling, F1 struggling.
33:03 And since that time, it's all elven.
33:05 NHRA struggling.
33:06 It's all coming up now.
33:08 And so we celebrate their success.
33:11 And we think the more that motorsports
33:13 is successful in this country and worldwide,
33:16 because we've got a huge opportunity for us worldwide.
33:20 So what we need to do, in my opinion,
33:22 is we need to make sure that we are doing the things that
33:25 grow our business.
33:26 They're going to worry about their own business,
33:28 and they're going to.
33:29 We're going to worry about our business.
33:31 Because they are-- whether people consider them
33:34 to be a competitor of ours or not,
33:37 all sports and entertainment is a competitor to us.
33:39 So we need to make sure that we're taking care of business
33:42 and making sure that our product is the best product can be.
33:47 What happens at venue with the race day experience
33:49 or the race weekend experience is as good
33:51 it can be, that our production is world class.
33:55 All these things that really make our business go,
34:00 we need to do.
34:01 So for us, every day we wake up, and every day I wake up,
34:05 and I go to what we call our North Star, which is,
34:09 are you going to grow the fan base?
34:11 That's what we need to do.
34:12 Because if we grow that fan base and engage that fan more,
34:17 then ultimately what happens from a financial standpoint
34:20 is going to take care of itself.
34:22 We have to nurture the existing fan we have,
34:25 and we have to bring new fans into the fold.
34:27 And fortunately, that's what we're doing right now.
34:29 I'm a new fan.
34:30 And so you're telling me that maybe one day,
34:32 a big giant Vegas event, Formula One on one night,
34:34 NASCAR together, it's a big party.
34:36 Big auto racing party.
34:37 Perhaps.
34:38 We're in discussion with a lot of different racing series
34:41 about partnering.
34:42 Partnering, right?
34:43 That's what you do, is partner.
34:44 You did it with the sponsorship when
34:46 one to many, right, bundling partners.
34:48 I'll get you out of here on this, man.
34:50 Jim Collins, good to great.
34:51 I'll always love the good to great question.
34:53 And I was going to go marketing, but I'll
34:55 do this, the difference between a good NASCAR
34:58 driver and a great one.
35:01 Well, I think it's just honestly,
35:04 as Kevin Harvick would say, you can't make a slow car go fast.
35:08 You just can't do it.
35:09 Doesn't matter what kind of driver you are.
35:12 Like every other sport, the margin right now in NASCAR
35:17 is so razor thin that the differentiator is actually
35:21 the driver's talent, himself or herself.
35:24 And that's really what it is.
35:25 And so I don't know the what.
35:29 If I did, maybe I'd do it.
35:30 But I don't, because I can't do that.
35:34 Well, your favorite race car driver, your favorite, right?
35:37 Maybe what does that individual do
35:39 that you notice is great that maybe is the difference?
35:42 Well, listen, we had our Hall of Fame induction
35:46 a couple of weeks ago.
35:47 And one of the inductees was Jimmy Johnson,
35:50 so one of the greatest race car drivers in NASCAR history
35:53 with 83 wins, seven championships, five
35:56 championships in a row.
35:58 He is a generational talent.
36:01 We actually have generational talent right now in NASCAR.
36:04 I just can't tell you who it is.
36:06 That would seem like there would be some favorites.
36:08 But these guys are world class athletes.
36:12 And people don't understand that.
36:13 The demands of what it takes from a G4 standpoint,
36:17 being in a race car for four hours,
36:19 it's 140 degrees in that car.
36:21 These guys are athletes.
36:23 And they may not be 6'8", 280, but they're fine-leaning, too,
36:32 and athletes.
36:33 And they put their life on the line
36:35 every time they go into a race car.
36:36 They do.
36:37 Yeah, well, listen, a media partner
36:38 doesn't pay NASCAR $7 billion if they wasn't athletes, right?
36:41 So definitely so.
36:42 Steve Phelps, thank you so much for the time, man.
36:44 It's a pleasure.
36:44 Glad you were at the NASCAR for the first time
36:47 right here at the NASCAR market site.
36:49 I've been by it thousands of times.
36:51 Yeah, but you've never been in.
36:52 How you been in?
36:53 You were sitting down.
36:54 Great conversation.
36:55 And listen, I will get down to Daytona.
36:58 I don't know who it'll be this year, because I'm not through,
37:00 and I can't just get on a jet and do it.
37:02 But I will get down to Daytona.
37:04 You have my words.
37:05 Thank you so much.
37:06 Appreciate it.
37:06 Thanks, Jabari.
37:06 Appreciate it.
37:07 We'll see you guys here at the NASDAQ market site.
37:09 Jabari Young at Forbes.
37:10 We'll see you next time.
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