First Ministers Questions - Thursday January 25 2024
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00:00 I apologise to those I was unable to call. That concludes General Questions.
00:04 The next item of business is First Minister's Question Time.
00:07 At question number 1, I call Douglas Ross.
00:09 During the pandemic, Nicola Sturgeon made Government decisions over WhatsApp. She was
00:18 ordered by the United Kingdom Covid inquiry to retain those messages. The former First Minister
00:24 promised to provide them. She said, "I have nothing to hide." But we now know that she
00:31 deleted them all. She broke promises to grieving families. She may have broken the law. Does the
00:40 First Minister accept that it was completely wrong and utterly scandalous for Nicola Sturgeon to
00:45 delete those messages? Before I answer Douglas Ross's question of substance,
00:54 I say at the offset, given that this is the First Minister's question time before holocaust moro
01:00 day, that it has now been more important to remember the victims of the holocaust and,
01:03 indeed, the genocides that followed. Together, we remember the millions of lives that have been cut
01:08 short with the utmost cruelty and brutality. The freedom and dignity of every citizen relies on
01:14 our willingness to defend each other's human rights and to stand up against cruelty and
01:18 violence everywhere in the world. It is a responsibility that we share equally.
01:22 It is the responsibility of all of us to remember the holocaust and, of course,
01:26 to pay tribute to the survivors of those atrocities.
01:29 So, ahead of holocaust moro day on Saturday, my thoughts today—and I hope that my thoughts
01:35 every day—should be with those who were affected then and those who are affected still.
01:49 Let me come to the issue of substance. I will start this exchange, as I have started exchanges
01:54 on this issue in recent weeks and months, by giving first and foremost an unreserved apology
02:01 to those families who were bereaved by Covid in relation to our handling
02:05 of the issue of informal communication, such as WhatsApp. As an organisation,
02:11 on the issue of WhatsApp messages, we did not handle the request in a way that gave families
02:17 who have been bereaved by Covid confidence. In fact, we did quite the opposite. They have asked
02:22 for nothing unreasonable. They have asked for answers and for the truth. I will certainly
02:26 do that when I appear in front of the inquiry later today.
02:31 Douglas Ross is asking me about Nicola Sturgeon. Of course, Nicola Sturgeon,
02:35 I believe it is now being confirmed, will appear in front of the Covid inquiry next week. She will
02:40 answer for herself. When it comes to any decisions that are made, as power records
02:46 management policy does, whether they are made over WhatsApp, over email, over telephone call
02:53 or any method of communication that is used, it is so important that those points are then
02:58 uploaded to the corporate record. I will end on this point. We have handed over 28,000 WhatsApp
03:08 messages, including mines. That is in stark contrast to the Prime Minister.
03:13 I fully associate myself with the First Minister's remarks ahead of Holocaust Memorial Day
03:20 on Saturday. I ask a very simple question. What did he feel about Nicola Sturgeon deleting
03:26 those messages, and we heard nothing? While Nicola Sturgeon led the cover-up and the secrecy,
03:34 she was not alone. The then Deputy First Minister, John Swinney, also deleted his messages. Is it
03:42 telling that neither of them can be in the Chamber today? While they deleted messages,
03:49 let us look at some of the messages that we have seen. The chief medical officer,
03:53 Professor Gregor Smith, reminded colleagues in a WhatsApp chat to delete at the end of every day.
04:00 Ken Thompson, the former Scottish Government director general, wrote,
04:05 "I feel moved at this point to tell you this chat is FOI recoverable."
04:10 He went on, "Plausible deniability is my middle name."
04:14 A message from the national clinical director, Jason Leitch, said,
04:18 "WhatsApp deletion is my pre-bed ritual."
04:21 He also said, "Just my usual reminder to delete your chat, particularly after we reach a conclusion."
04:30 From politicians to civil servants, they sought to destroy evidence. Does not this show a culture
04:37 of secrecy running through this entire SNP Government?
04:40 Douglas Ross talked about a culture of secrecy, but we handed over 28,000 messages and 19,000
04:50 documents. The former First Minister did 250 media briefings, taking questions from journalists
05:01 day after day. That hardly rings true of the accusations that Douglas Ross is making
05:06 of a Government that was hiding from scrutiny. Far from that, every single day,
05:11 the former First Minister was standing up and taking questions.
05:14 There are many members wishing to put questions in this session.
05:21 It will make it far more likely that members will be taken if we can hear one another.
05:28 For all the accusations that the former Deputy First Minister is throwing at the
05:32 former First Minister—they will give evidence to the inquiry; I do not intend
05:36 to prejudge that or put words in their mouth—I assume that those same accusations ring true
05:43 for his colleague the Prime Minister, who has not handed over a single WhatsApp message.
05:48 If the accusations that he is making against Nicola Sturgeon and the one that he is throwing
05:56 towards the former Deputy First Minister do not hold true for the Prime Minister,
06:03 who has not handed over a single message, that is not just political opportunism;
06:08 it is breathtaking hypocrisy.
06:10 Douglas Ross, that is just riseable and embarrassing from the First Minister.
06:17 Look at the facts here. Nicola Sturgeon destroyed all of her messages. She did that deliberately,
06:25 but some have been recovered from other people.
06:28 This morning's Covid inquiry session with Liz Lloyd, Nicola Sturgeon's former chief of staff,
06:33 has revealed that Covid decisions were unquestionably made on WhatsApp. There are
06:39 many examples in her evidence, but let us take one. With just two hours to go before a statement
06:46 in this Parliament, Nicola Sturgeon said on WhatsApp that she was not sure what to do
06:51 about the number of people at weddings and funerals. Her chief of staff replied,
06:56 "I think as we have only just put them up, we just leave it. I think we stay at 20."
07:02 Therefore, a Government decision to stay at 20 was taken over WhatsApp.
07:08 Hamza Yousaf has previously said that the Scottish Government did not routinely make decisions
07:17 through WhatsApp. Did the First Minister mislead Parliament when he said that,
07:22 or did he not realise that Scottish Government policy—
07:25 Members, we must hear one another.
07:30 I am happy to repeat this to SNP Members who seem to want to drown this out.
07:35 So, did the First Minister mislead Parliament when he said that, or did he not realise
07:40 that Scottish Government policy was being made on the hoof over WhatsApp?
07:45 WhatsApp is a communication application rather than a decision-making tool.
07:53 Each Minister is supported by a private office. This team, of course, compromises private
08:02 secretaries and ministers of staff. A private office records the specific decisions of ministers
08:08 for the official record. Members are laughing—that is from the Scotland Office.
08:12 Of course, when we ask them for Douglas Ross's WhatsApp messages, which they refuse to release—
08:18 Members!
08:18 So the point here is, of course, that WhatsApp is not routinely used.
08:25 Members!
08:25 Douglas Ross literally read out my quote. It is not routinely used. If it was used to make
08:31 decisions, then, of course—
08:33 Members!
08:34 Well, they are getting up in arms over what Douglas Ross has said.
08:37 First Minister, I am sorry, but I cannot hear a word that you are saying. That will be the case
08:43 for those who are visiting the Parliament today. I ask all Members to remember the requirement to
08:50 conduct our business in an orderly manner.
08:52 Because the truth is, it is inconvenient for the Conservatives here. It is very,
08:56 very simple. If decisions were made over WhatsApp, they would have to be recorded. Otherwise,
09:03 how on earth would they be actioned? They are then recorded on the corporate record
09:08 and taken forward. All salient points and all key decisions.
09:11 Let me go back to the point that I made in response to the very first question that
09:15 Douglas Ross asked. I believe that there are challenges in relation to our use of WhatsApp.
09:19 It has not been, frankly, the Government's finest hour in relation to handling those requests. I
09:24 put my hands up to that, unlike, of course, other Governments. That is why I have commissioned
09:31 officials to deliver an externally led review—not a Government review, but an externally led review—into
09:36 the use of mobile messaging apps and the use of non-corporate technology in the Scottish Government.
09:42 That should take particular account of our interaction with statutory public inquiries.
09:48 When it comes to being transparent, I go back to the point that I made. The Government
09:52 handed over 28,000 messages and 19,000 documents. I, as First Minister of the Government, have
09:58 handed over my WhatsApp messages. That is in stark contrast to the UK Government,
10:03 to the Prime Minister, who has refused to hand over a single message and, of course,
10:07 took the inquiry to court only to lose.
10:09 There was so much in that. I am not sure what the First Minister was speaking about—my
10:21 own WhatsApps. I provided my WhatsApps from my time as a Government minister to the Covid inquiry,
10:26 and they are there on the record. Unlike senior nationalists, I did not delete mine.
10:31 The evidence that we have heard today is, quite frankly, shocking. It confirms that
10:38 pandemic decisions by the SNP were made for political purposes.
10:43 Well, they are saying what? The education secretary is saying what on earth?
10:51 Nicola Sturgeon's chief of staff talks of making "purely political moves" on public health to
10:59 "start a good old-fashioned ramy" with the UK Government.
11:04 In another handwritten note, she says that she is going to look at "political tactics",
11:14 calling for things that we cannot do. Hiding revelations like this must have been the reason
11:22 that the SNP Government destroyed so much evidence. The First Minister, the Deputy First
11:27 Minister, the national clinical director and the chief medical officer all deleted their messages.
11:33 Discussions and crucial decisions have vanished. A top-down culture of secrecy was rife throughout
11:39 this entire Government. It looks like the most senior figures have engaged in a deliberate
11:44 cover-up. Now it has been confirmed that the SNP made some crucial Covid decisions for purely
11:51 political reasons. Is Humza Yousaf ashamed that the SNP Government made purely political reasons
11:58 during the pandemic? Is that not the ultimate betrayal of the public, who sacrificed so much?
12:06 I reject the charge in its entirety. We had, and published regularly, the four harms
12:19 approach that we took in relation to decisions that were made in relation to the pandemic.
12:25 Every single day, I can say with confidence that our overarching priority was always to
12:31 keep the people of this country safe. Did we get every decision right? Absolutely not. We will be
12:42 rightly questioned about that in the UK inquiry and the Scottish inquiry. I know our motivation.
12:48 Every step of the way was to ensure that we kept the people of this country safe. Was that not,
12:56 in stark contrast, a UK Government holding parties in number 10, holding parties in the
13:04 Treasury? Was that not the obscene spectacle of the then Prime Minister flagrantly breaching the
13:10 rules while the loved ones' families could not go to their loved ones' funerals? Throughout all
13:17 of that, Douglas Ross has not had the decency to apologise once.
13:23 On Saturday, which is the Holocaust memorial day, we will mark the theme "Fragility of Freedom",
13:33 a day when we pause, reflect and remember all those who have been victims of genocide,
13:38 but also a moment to pause and reflect on those who still strive to live with peace,
13:44 with dignity, away from conflict and without prejudice.
13:49 What has been revealed at the Covid inquiry this week has rightly shocked people across Scotland.
13:54 The attempts to subvert the inquiry and to breach freedom of information laws is, frankly,
13:59 a betrayal of the trust that people put into this Government. WhatsApp messages were deleted
14:05 on an industrial scale, the former First Minister using a private Scottish National Party email
14:10 address for Government business, and officials openly joking about breaking the law while the
14:16 Covid pandemic tore through our country. The culture of cover-up started with the First Minister
14:22 and extended down to the senior civil service. In June, when I asked Humza Yousaf whether
14:29 all requested emails, texts and WhatsApp messages would be handed over in full,
14:34 he responded in this Parliament without equivocation, "Yes." Now that we know that that
14:39 was not true, was the First Minister knowingly misleading Parliament, or was he so out of his
14:45 depth that he did not know what was going on? Of course we did hand over what we had.
14:52 Twenty-eight thousand messages that we have have been handed over. For those officials,
14:57 or indeed former Ministers of the Government, who do not have WhatsApp messages,
15:02 they will have to account for that in front of the inquiry. But Anas Sarwar cannot say that there
15:07 was deletion on an industrial scale when 28,000 messages have been handed over to the Covid
15:13 inquiry. He cannot say that he had been leading that from the top when he had handed over all
15:18 of the WhatsApp messages that he had, and no doubt in a couple of hours' time he will be questioned
15:23 about them. Anas Sarwar is absolutely right, as is Douglas Ross, to ask questions about
15:29 our informal communications. There is nothing wrong in that. But to suggest that somehow
15:34 there was a cover-up, I frankly do not believe that even the public agree with Anas Sarwar,
15:41 nor Douglas Ross. Why? Because the public looked at this Government, questioned this Government,
15:46 saw that this Government had a First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, who stood in front of the
15:52 cameras every single day— Let us hear the First Minister.
15:55 —every single day and took questions from journalists and from Members of this Parliament
16:01 more than 250 times. That is hardly the measure or the mark of a Government that was trying to
16:08 avoid scrutiny. I think that the First Minister must live in a parallel universe. The First
16:14 Minister at the time deleted every WhatsApp message. The Deputy First Minister at the time
16:18 deleted every WhatsApp message. The chief medical officer at the time deleted every WhatsApp message.
16:24 The national clinical director at the time deleted every WhatsApp message. If that is not
16:28 deletion at an industrial scale, I do not know what planet Humza Yousaf lives in.
16:35 The First Minister gave an unequivocal commitment to Parliament, but on his watch,
16:39 ministers and officials failed to comply with do-not-destroy notices. Key evidence has been
16:44 deleted and deliberately misleading statements have been given to the press and the public
16:49 on his watch. One specific issue that I raised with Humza Yousaf was the use of private SNP
16:54 email accounts to conduct Government business, which they have repeatedly denied. Evidence
17:00 to the inquiry this week has blown that claim out of the water. When I asked Humza Yousaf in November
17:06 whether all emails, be they Government or party emails, would be handed to the inquiry,
17:11 again he said this in this Parliament. As for any other form of communication,
17:16 including any other email address, it is my full expectation that that is handed over.
17:22 He is First Minister and leader of the SNP, so I ask him whether any emails from SNP accounts
17:29 have been handed to the Covid inquiry and, if so, how many.
17:32 To answer Anas Sarwar's question, the point, which I think is fundamental, is that the use
17:39 of a non-Government email address, such as an SNP email address, does not exempt official
17:44 correspondence from freedom of information requests. For example, if there is a freedom
17:48 of information request about a particular issue or a particular document, that is not subverted
17:54 because it is sent to an SNP email address. Therefore, it should be handed over.
18:00 I can give an absolute guarantee that, when it comes to my SNP email address,
18:04 no Government business was conducted over it. Of course, in any private communication application
18:11 that I have, messages have been handed over. Not only have I handed over WhatsApp messages,
18:18 but I have also handed over private DMs on my private Twitter account.
18:26 The permanent Secretary for Justice has made it clear to every single Minister and every
18:31 civil servant that, regardless of the method of communication that is used, we must comply with
18:37 the Public Records Act 1998, with freedom of information request legislation and with a
18:41 mobile messaging policy. I go back to the point that I made to Douglas Ross that, regardless of
18:46 the method of communication that is used, whether it is an SNP email address or otherwise, any
18:51 decisions that are made must be recorded in the corporate record and the salient points must be
18:56 recorded as well. We will continue to comply fully, as I intend to do in a couple of hours'
19:01 time, with the UK Covid inquiry. This is meant to be a Government that he is in charge of and a
19:07 party that he is in charge of, but he cannot answer for anybody else in Government or his party and
19:12 only goes back to his own messages and emails. This is not just about the inquiry; it is about
19:18 how this Government operates. This is a party that, over the past 17 years in Government,
19:23 has created a culture of secrecy and cover-up, a culture that goes from the First Minister
19:29 down. The SNP believes that it is one standard for it and another standard for everyone else,
19:35 because somehow the rules do not apply to the SNP. It has abused the trust that the people of
19:41 Scotland put in it. If it will not take my word for it, maybe it should listen to Caroline Stewart
19:47 of the Scottish Covid Bereaved. She said this. "I trusted them. I felt him and Nicola Sturgeon
19:55 were honest and trying to be open with us and to find out that that was all just a facade.
20:01 I don't understand how they can hold their head up high."
20:07 How can the First Minister ever expect the people of Scotland to trust her or her party
20:12 ever again?
20:13 Always through the chair, please, First Minister.
20:15 I will always leave the verdict of trust to the Scottish people. That is why we will comply with
20:23 not just the UK inquiry but the Scottish Covid inquiry, which we instructed. When it comes to
20:29 transparency, that is why we have handed over 28,000 WhatsApp messages—that is transparency.
20:34 When it comes to what this Government has done across a range of portfolios, whether it is the
20:42 duty of candour or the patient safety commissioner, that is transparency. Whether it is public
20:47 inquiries and instructing them, that is transparency. Whether it was the former First Minister
20:53 standing up in more than 250 media conferences, that was transparency. Taking questions from
21:00 this chamber on multiple occasions—dozens of occasions—that is transparency.
21:06 I will end where I started my response to Douglas Ross. When it comes to those
21:12 families who have been bereaved by Covid, first and foremost, our responsibility is to them. I
21:18 can promise them that when I appear in front of the inquiry, I know that they will not just want
21:22 warm words; they will want to see and hear truthful answers to straight questions. That is what I
21:28 intend to do when I appear in front of the inquiry in a couple of hours' time.
21:31 We have many members wishing to put questions to date, as the member would expect. I would be
21:37 grateful if we could keep our questions and responses concise.
21:41 I associate the Scottish Greens with the First Minister in Anas Sarwar's remarks ahead of
21:48 Holocaust memorial day. Will the First Minister provide an update on how the Scottish Government
21:53 will continue to protect tenants in the private rented sector after the expiry of the rent cap
21:58 under the Cost of Living (Tenant Protection) (Scotland) Act 2022?
22:01 The Scottish Government has led the way, far ahead of any other part of the UK,
22:07 in protecting private tenants against rent rises and eviction during the cost-of-living crisis.
22:12 We are absolutely committed to supporting tenants when those protections end on 31 March 2024.
22:20 That is why, yesterday, regulations were laid that will, subject to approval of course of
22:24 this Parliament, temporarily amend the existing rent adjudication process for a period of 12
22:30 months. That will help to protect tenants from excessively large rent increases that could be
22:35 experienced if there is a move back to open market rent in a single step, while enabling landlords
22:41 to continue to reinvest in our private rented sector. The Minister for Tenant Rights has
22:45 written to the Lead Committee with further details.
22:49 Thank the First Minister for that answer and for highlighting that the emergency rent protections
22:53 in Scotland have been far ahead of anything else in the UK. A lead role that Scotland will continue
22:57 when long-term rent controls are introduced in the Housing (Scotland) Bill very soon.
23:00 Some tenants watching today may be receiving rent increase notices right now, which are well
23:05 above the 3 per cent cap. Will the First Minister reassure tenants that the rent cap remains fully
23:10 in place until 31 March and that any tenant receiving a cap-busting rent increase notice
23:15 before then should challenge that rise? What is the Scottish Government doing
23:19 to make sure that tenants know about and are able to use their rights?
23:22 I can confirm that the emergency rent cap remains in place until the end of March,
23:28 so any rent increase notice that is issued before 1 April is very much subject to that cap,
23:34 even if the increase will not apply until after that date. If a tenant receives a rent increase
23:40 notice above that, they should refer it to Rent Service Scotland, and rent will be set
23:45 in line with the cap. I fully agree that tenants need to know
23:49 and know what their rights are and how to act on them. That is why a national renters'
23:55 rights marketing campaign will launch very soon, and it will highlight existing rights
24:00 and the changes when the emergency measures end. That will include online guidance and tools to
24:07 help people understand how the changes affect them specifically. The Government has taken
24:12 very clear and bold action to support people through the cost crisis. We are determined
24:18 to build on that, and our forthcoming Housing (Scotland) Bill will set out proposals for
24:22 longer-term reform of the rental sector. We are committed to working not just with tenants—that
24:26 is crucial—but with responsible landlords and other key stakeholders to ensure that the
24:30 legislation delivers reform that works in reality.
24:38 The SNP's green rent cap has not only failed to tackle the housing emergency
24:42 but has exacerbated it. Rents in Scotland have increased by more than 14 per cent,
24:46 despite the SNP's green rent cap. As a result of the cap, Scotland is the only part of the UK
24:53 where the number of properties sold by landlords has gone up.
24:57 That ill-thought-policy has hindered mobility, caused enormous price hikes when people move,
25:03 and has reduced the availability of housing by driving landlords out of the market.
25:08 Does the First Minister agree that his Government's interferences in the market
25:13 have been nothing short of a disaster? Will he scrap the cap?
25:17 That is the most Conservative contribution that I think I have ever heard in this chamber. How
25:24 dare the Government interfere in the middle of a UK Government's cost-of-living crisis
25:29 to help tenants because of the economic damage that they have caused? How dare we
25:35 have the temerity to protect renters because of the economic vandalism of Pam Gosal's party?
25:42 Her contribution does not bear the reality or the facts that we look at.
25:50 First Minister, if I might stop you there, I am aware of members who are clearly having
25:55 a conversation with one another across the aisles. That was totally unacceptable during
25:59 First Minister's questions. Please continue.
26:01 Of course, it does not bear the reality that we look at the facts. The latest Scottish landlord
26:05 register data shows that the number of registered properties for rent in Scotland between 22 August
26:10 and 23 November has increased. We will work with responsible landlords and tenants and other
26:18 stakeholder groups, but I will never make an apology for making sure that we are on the right
26:24 side of this argument.
26:25 Kaukab Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
26:30 The new rent adjudication rules are welcome, empowering private tenants to challenge any
26:36 unreasonable rent hikes. However, for that proposed transition to work as intended,
26:41 tenants need to be fully informed of those rights. Can the Scottish Government expand
26:46 on how it intends to ensure that both renters and private landlords across Scotland understand
26:53 the system that will be in place from April?
26:56 I absolutely agree with that. It is vital that both tenants and landlords are made aware
27:02 of the changes that will come into place from 1 April. Tenants need to understand their rights
27:06 and how to act on them. That is a crucial part of the changes that we are making to the rent
27:11 adjudication process, and we are working effectively in practice. That is why we are working,
27:15 as I mentioned in response to Ross Greer's question, on a range of awareness-raising
27:22 activities and provision of clear guidance to support people through that transitionary period.
27:26 A national renters' rights marketing campaign will launch very soon, and we are also working
27:31 on an online rent increase calculator to assist landlords and tenants in establishing
27:37 what rent could be charged from 1 April, should it be subject to adjudication.
27:41 To ask the First Minister whether he will provide an update on the Scottish Government's
27:48 latest engagement with the UK Government regarding the status of the Grangemouth refinery.
27:54 Last week, the Energy Secretary chaired the first meeting of the Grangemouth Future Industry Board,
28:00 which includes representatives of the refinery, its workforce and the UK Government. I am
28:05 encouraged that the UK Minister of State for Energy, Security and Net Zero responded positively
28:11 to Neil Gray's request to consider any proposal that supports a long-term and sustainable future
28:16 for the Grangemouth industrial cluster, recognising its strategic national importance
28:22 to the economy of the whole of the UK. My Government is committed to exploring all
28:27 options to extend the life of the refinery and bring forward new transition projects at pace.
28:32 I also welcome the UK Government's support of the Tata Steel plant in Wales,
28:36 and I look forward to constructive dialogue on a similar package being available for Grangemouth.
28:41 The Cabinet Secretary for Energy, Connectivity and the Islands has written to the UK Government
28:44 to seek a further discussion.
28:45 I thank the First Minister for that response. It is indeed heartening to hear that the UK
28:50 Government is now open to giving support to the vitally important chemical cluster in Grangemouth
28:56 in my constituency. There is the potential for the refinery to move quickly to a biorefinery to
29:02 utilise forced sustainable aviation fuel—in other words, a just transition for workers right now.
29:10 That would require support from the UK Government in terms of its policy barriers
29:15 surrounding the Hefa cap. What indications, if any, are there that the UK Government realises
29:21 potential, is willing to take the necessary steps and is acting in the best interests of Scotland
29:27 for this vitally important national asset?
29:29 Michelle Thomson is absolutely right. There is a huge opportunity
29:37 in relation to that transition to net zero for Grangemouth. It is clear, however, that there
29:43 are serious regulatory barriers to which Michelle Thomson has already spoken to,
29:48 to the owners of Grangemouth to develop those opportunities, such as SAF—sustainable
29:54 aviation fuel. The company has made clear that a major barrier to that immediate investment—I
29:59 stress again that it is an immediate investment—in a biorefinery at the site is the UK Government's
30:04 proposed SAF mandate and the Hefa cap that Michelle Thomson mentioned. That requires action
30:12 from the UK Government, and I believe that action should be immediate and urgent. Grangemouth's
30:17 hard workers and the wider community cannot be left at the mercy of the UK Government in action.
30:23 The Scottish Government wants to secure the best possible future for Grangemouth.
30:27 The key powers in that area lie, regrettably, at Westminster. We will continue to push it
30:33 to make the necessary changes to ensure that it plays a key role in powering Scotland's drive
30:38 to net zero. I hope that all members can get behind the request that we have made
30:43 to the UK Government to help to transition Grangemouth and its workers.
30:48 To ask the First Minister, in light of the Scottish Government's plans to open the first
30:57 SAF drug consumption room in Glasgow later this year, what assurances he can provide that other
31:02 areas of drug policy, including spaces for residential rehabilitation, will not be deprioritised.
31:08 It absolutely will not be deprioritised. Drug deaths are a public health emergency,
31:14 and we remain absolutely committed to investing an additional ÂŁ250 million in our national mission
31:20 to reduce harm and deaths caused by drugs. We will continue to take a person-centred approach
31:25 to address the wider needs of some of our most vulnerable people. We have been clear
31:29 in our commitment to support the establishment of a safer drug consumption facility in Scotland.
31:34 To give Annie Wells a hope and a sense of reassurance, funding was earmarked in the
31:37 national mission budget in the knowledge that Glasgow might need to proceed quickly,
31:41 following the Lord Advocate's position. No existing drug and alcohol services
31:46 will therefore be affected to fund the pilot. We remain absolutely committed to expanding
31:51 residential rehabilitation capacity by 50 per cent by the end of this session,
31:55 and that includes the expansion of Beechwood house in Inverness, which I am pleased to say
31:58 broke ground this week. That will add much-needed capacity in the Highlands when it opens in October.
32:03 Residential rehabilitation is a vital way of not just helping drug users beat addiction
32:13 but of helping them to get their lives back. Yet the most recent figures show that people's
32:17 starting places in those facilities fell to their lowest in more than two years.
32:22 We know that there are fewer people addicted to drugs, so why have those receiving that kind of
32:27 help reduced? Can the First Minister assure those vulnerable people that his Government will not
32:33 oversee further reduction in places? First, we have maintained the drugs budget for 2024-25,
32:41 which is in the face of significant cuts to our resource budget over the past couple of years.
32:48 In terms of the expansion of residential rehab, investment in the 77 capacity projects combined
32:54 provides an increase of 172 beds by 2025-26, boosting the current rehab capacity in Scotland
33:01 from 425 to 597—far from being a cut, that is an increase of up over 40 per cent.
33:08 As I said, we have progressed work on safer drug consumption facilities,
33:12 we are continuing to widen access to life-saving naloxone, and we are continuing to drive the
33:17 implementation of the MAT standards. On the safer drug consumption facility, which Annie
33:22 Wells mentioned in her first question, I am pleased that we have got to this position. It
33:26 would have been far easier and quicker if the UK Government had approved it in the first place.
33:31 Paul Sweeney, the safe consumption pilot in Glasgow is a critical part of our effort to
33:37 tackle the drug death crisis in our country, but we need many complementary tools in that toolkit
33:42 to address the crisis effectively. The Turning Point 218 centre in Glasgow, which supports women
33:47 in the justice system with a number of critical issues, such as problematic drug use, is set to
33:52 close next month due to funding cuts. How can the First Minister say that other drug policy
33:58 interventions are not being compromised when his Government is allowing a well-established and
34:02 effective lifeline service in Glasgow to close? As I did in response to a question from Pauline
34:10 McNeill a couple of weeks ago in relation to Turning Point 218, I know that it is an excellent
34:15 service. Local decisions are made in relation to funding, and our discussions with Glasgow City
34:22 Council have made it clear that if that service has to close, it is already ensuring that the
34:28 appropriate service provision is available for the women who are impacted.
34:31 To ask the First Minister what action the Scottish Government plans to take
34:38 in response to the reported rise in attacks on prison guards and weapons found in prisons.
34:44 The Government and the Scottish Prison Service recognise the importance of providing
34:50 a safe and secure environment for those who live and work in our prisons by adopting a
34:56 zero-tolerance approach towards all violence. Although the SPS reports an increase in the
35:01 recovery of weapons in prisons, that is likely to be a result of the positive impact of the
35:06 mitigations that have been put in place to detect, deter and reduce the availability
35:11 of contraband across the prison estate. The rise also highlights the professionalism of our prison
35:17 officers' ability to identify and manage both risk and threat. Although every act of violence
35:23 towards staff is absolutely to be condemned—I am sure that we will be united on that—those
35:28 acts of violence towards staff have reduced by 28 per cent over the past four years.
35:33 Pauline McNeill
35:34 I thank the First Minister for that answer. Prison guard attacks have more than doubled
35:39 in seven years, with nearly 4,000 weapons discovered in the past 10 years.
35:44 Those include home-made weapons such as knives made from razor blades that are melted into
35:49 toothbrushes. Phil Fairlie from the Prison Officers Association said this week that the
35:54 trend is growing at an alarming rate and coincides with an increase in assaults
35:59 on staff and prisoners. We are heading towards record high population numbers
36:04 and have more members of organised crime gangs inside our prisons than ever.
36:09 I agree with the First Minister that we have a high regard for our prison guards and the work
36:14 that they do, but does he agree that they should not have to fear going into work? Indeed,
36:21 prisoners themselves should not fear being in prison. What discussions has the Scottish
36:28 Government had to ascertain why those home-made weapons are circulating? Is the First Minister
36:35 concerned that the increase may be symptomatic of severe overcrowding in Scottish prisons?
36:41 Those are all excellent questions from Pauline McNeill. I will try to address
36:46 them, and if there is further information that the justice secretary can send to her,
36:50 I will ensure that that happens.
36:52 On overcrowding in our prisons, I do not disagree with what Pauline McNeill said. Our prison
36:57 population is far too high, and a number of efforts are going into reducing that. Our numbers
37:02 in remand and the female prison population are far too high. The justice secretary and I have
37:10 spoken about a range of actions over a number of months to try to reduce the pressures. It is not
37:15 a silver bullet, as Pauline McNeill would understand, but there are a range of actions
37:19 that we can take. I agree with her that reducing the prison population is necessary.
37:23 On the actions that we are taking in relation to weapons and contraband in prisons,
37:28 again the justice secretary will furnish her with further details, but we are investing
37:32 in technologies such as RAPI-scan machines and other technology such as body scanners,
37:37 and so on, to try to detect that contraband coming into our prisons.
37:43 The last point that I would make to Pauline McNeill is that she is absolutely right to say
37:47 that we must place value on those who work in our prisons. I am pleased that the SPAS partner,
37:58 Trade Unions, has overwhelmingly accepted the latest pay proposal. That is a two-year deal
38:00 that delivers a salary increase of 10 per cent for the majority of staff, with those on the low
38:05 salaries benefiting from an increase of more than 12 per cent over the period of the pay award.
38:11 Every one of us should continue to praise the efforts of our prison staff right up and down
38:17 the country for the fantastic work that they do. I move to general and constituency supplementary.
38:22 I call Christine Grahame.
38:23 First Minister, in a written answer to me this week, and following Westminster scrutiny of the
38:31 ex-cell bully dog regulations, it appears that there are estimated 50,000 of the 150,000
38:40 ex-cell bully-type dogs in England and Wales. Extrapolating those to Scotland would mean
38:46 between 5,000 and 15,000 dogs. Given those numbers, what help is there now for existing
38:54 and mainly responsible owners to identify whether their dog fits that breed type?
39:01 What concerns does the First Minister have of an influx of welfare charities? What concerns
39:07 does he have that vets in Scotland may find themselves euthanising perfectly healthy dogs?
39:13 There are legitimate concerns that are raised by Christine Grahame. I know that she has put on
39:18 record her concern and opposition to the actions that we are having to take. I understand and am
39:25 willing to continue to have conversations with Christine Grahame about the approach,
39:29 because I still believe that the Scottish Government's "Did Not Breed" is the right
39:32 approach. Unfortunately, we have had to respond to an unannounced decision that was made by the UK
39:39 Government without any consultation with the Scottish Government whatsoever.
39:43 We are, and Siobhan Brown, the Minister for Animal Welfare will have her way right to
39:46 in relation to all the issues that Christine Grahame raises. We have to think about the
39:52 impact on owners and, of course, we also have to think about the potential impact
39:56 on animal rehoming centres as well as the veterinary profession. All those issues are
40:03 being considered as we progress these matters at pace.
40:11 Following the SNP-Green Government's latest budget, NHS Highland has been forced to put
40:16 development of the much-needed and already delayed replacement for the Belford hospital
40:19 in Fort William on hold. The current building will be 60 years old next year, and patients,
40:24 staff and pretty much everyone, except clearly the Scottish Government, recognise
40:28 the urgent need for a new hospital. Can the First Minister tell me when the people of Lochaber,
40:33 who have been campaigning for decades for a new Belford, will get the new hospital that
40:38 they have been promised? We will, of course, provide this Chamber with an update on our
40:44 capital projects, including health capital projects. I say to Jamie Halcro Johnston that,
40:50 in the face of a real-terms cut not just to our resource budget but a 10 per cent cut to
40:57 our capital budget over the coming five years, we are continuing to ensure that our NHS gets
41:02 a pay uplift—a very stark contrast to a Conservative UK Government that has prioritised
41:08 tax cuts for the wealthy over prioritising spend in its NHS.
41:12 The First Minister will be aware that the A9 North has been closed several times recently,
41:22 cutting Caithness off from the remainder of the mainland and specialist maternity services.
41:27 The First Minister also knows that the Regmore maternity unit cannot cope, leading
41:32 to women being asked to leave the unit with nowhere to go and 100 miles from home as their
41:38 labour progresses. Despite that, the Scottish Government has paused Caithness's health redesign
41:45 and the Regmore maternity unit redevelopment. Therefore, I ask the First Minister to revisit
41:51 the downgrade and to continue the redesign so that women who require specialist maternity care
41:57 are never again abandoned.
41:58 The member raises very important points. I have been involved in the issue when I was
42:08 the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care and know it well. The member is absolutely correct
42:13 that refurbishments and construction to Regmore are much required and much needed.
42:22 The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care has outlined the very challenging position
42:29 in relation to capital projects due to the cut that we have experienced
42:32 in the capital budget from the UK Government over the next five years.
42:37 I confirm to the member that no final decisions have been taken on individual projects in NHS
42:42 Highland. We absolutely remain committed to the reinstatement of consultant-led maternity
42:47 services at Dr Gray's hospital, and any decisions made in relation to Regmore redevelopment
42:52 will have no impact on the overall plan to return consultant-led services to Dr Gray's
42:57 by 2026. Notwithstanding all that, the member's points are important and crucial,
43:03 and that is why we are keen to update Parliament as soon as we can on our capital infrastructure
43:07 projects.
43:08 Will the First Minister provide an assurance that, although budgetary pressures mean that
43:14 the Scottish Government is not currently able to commit to the Empire, Slavery and
43:18 Scotland's Medium Steering Group's suggestion of ÂŁ5 million for its work, which includes
43:22 bringing forward plans for a dedicated space to address Scotland's role in empire, colonialism
43:26 and historic slavery, that that has not been ruled out for the future and that consideration
43:32 will be given to allocating such a facility in my Greenock and Inverclyde constituency,
43:36 given its links with the transatlantic slave trade?
43:38 The Scottish Government has allocated ÂŁ200,000 in this year's budget to support the on-going
43:45 work related to Empire, Slavery and Scotland's Museum recommendations. We will all work towards
43:51 the recommendations published by the steering group. We will support the building of an
43:56 effective, resilient organisation that contains the necessary skills to identify and acquire
44:01 additional funding streams to allow that crucial work to progress and develop over the coming
44:06 years. The location of any facility remains to be determined, but I hope that Stuart McMillan
44:14 will take some comfort from the reassurances of the importance that we place on the Empire Museum.
44:19 It is over three years since SNP Ministers cancelled the new Eye Pavilion hospital
44:29 replacement in Edinburgh, a decision that the former First Minister agreed to U-turn on during
44:33 the 2021 Holyrood election, pledging to build a new hospital during this Parliament. Will he
44:40 keep that pledge to patients in Edinburgh and the south-east of Scotland?
44:43 There is no doubting that the Eye Pavilion hospital needs to be built. We need to replace
44:50 the current infrastructure, so there is no doubting across any political party that that
44:55 has to be done. I go back to the point that I made to Stuart McMillan's colleagues. We are
44:59 having to take forward capital spending projects in the face of high inflation in terms of
45:04 construction costs, but a 10 per cent cut to our capital budget over the next five years is
45:12 being imposed on Scotland by the Conservatives. Miles Briggs has every right to ask us about the
45:18 progress that we are making. I hope that he will use any influence that he has with the UK
45:22 Government to tell them to reverse that capital cut, which is having such significant impacts
45:27 on our budget and on health infrastructure right up and down the country.
45:30 Thank you. That concludes