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00:00:00 [music]
00:00:30 Great day to you ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Press Hour.
00:00:34 It is official and global that Cameroon and Canada are the two bilingual countries in the world
00:00:43 with two official languages, English and French, applied in their various national activities, programs and daily interactions.
00:00:57 But how is bilingualism practiced in Cameroon? Is it actually in theory or is it in practice?
00:01:05 That's going to be the crux of the matter on Press Hour today.
00:01:10 And you can imagine that we usually go in just for those who are experts in each topic we choose for Press Hour.
00:01:19 And today we have our own Eugene Ndi, Eugene Ndi, who is the publisher of Newswatch newspaper.
00:01:30 He is also the editor-in-chief. Eugene, welcome to Press Hour.
00:01:35 Thank you, Kilian. It's a pleasure to be on the program for the first time this 2024.
00:01:42 It's a pleasure to be on the program with respected panelists, co-panelists, to talk about this very important subject.
00:01:51 I think we live here in reach, but I want to also apologize to our televiewers that my voice is not the best, so they would also understand.
00:02:01 I think that I like the voice the way it is. It should have just taken its maximal sound position,
00:02:08 but where it is, as I listen to you, I think our viewers are getting a very good voice from you.
00:02:14 Don't just be worried about that voice because it is good for broadcast.
00:02:19 Then meet Thambe Agbor, Teddy Thambe Nkwere, who is the principal of Government Bilingual High School Yaounde.
00:02:31 Many people call it ESOS, but the official appellation of that school is Government Bilingual High School Yaounde.
00:02:39 We are pleased to have you on our set today, sir.
00:02:42 Thank you. It's my pleasure to be here.
00:02:46 The pleasure is shared. We're going to go over to someone who has been on Press Hour several times.
00:02:54 Kenneth Chow is a linguist and he is an official translator in the ministry in Yaounde.
00:03:05 We thought that we should bring people like you to give us the experience of a ministry.
00:03:12 We're just taking your ministry as a focal point, if you like, a point of contact for those who use those words when they speak.
00:03:20 So you're going to give us exactly the situation, the experience in the ministry. You're welcome.
00:03:26 Thank you, Mr. Killian. It's always a pleasure sitting on this panel, especially with you as an on-call person.
00:03:35 Concerning the topic, I think it's a very interesting topic we are discussing today.
00:03:41 Actually, I don't know whether you want me to start answering the question or to greet the Taylor viewers first.
00:03:48 You can greet us and then we'll go into the answers later on.
00:03:52 Thank you very much for being here.
00:03:55 Paul Anchang is a political analyst. In everything that happens, there is policy before you have any other thing.
00:04:06 So you're going to tell us exactly what policy is there for bilingualism to work in Cameroon from a political point of view.
00:04:14 We are always pleased to have you because your interventions are always incisive. You're welcome.
00:04:21 Thank you. Thank you very much, Killian. Thank you to CRTV.
00:04:23 Happy Sunday to all the Taylor viewers throughout the national territory.
00:04:27 It's a very sensitive topic as well because, just like you rightly said, Cameroon and Canada are one of the bilingual countries existing in the world.
00:04:33 So we'll talk about the political aspect of it as well. I'll be able to share my thoughts about it, the political aspects,
00:04:40 and what covers the policy not only, but also the multiculturalism that comes with that.
00:04:45 Exactly. And that is very important.
00:04:47 Somewhere into the program, we are going to welcome two students, Sinje Meyu Paul, who is a Form 5 student,
00:04:57 and Ayagma Asala Ingrid, who is a student of Temenaw, which is equivalent to up six in the English subsystem of education in our country.
00:05:09 We're going to get these two students in the course of the program to know exactly what they have in their schools as bilingualism in practice.
00:05:17 Here comes Emanuella Vemnuy with Press Review, telling us exactly what the press talked about in the week that just ended. Emanuella.
00:05:34 The heart of Africa beats in Cote d'Ivoire as the country of the elephants plays host to the 3/4 Africa Cup of Nations.
00:05:42 Newspapers in Cameroon are keen with latest happenings around the football event.
00:05:47 The dawn puts forward the anticipation and challenges of the Afghan, whose opening ceremony the Herald Tribune delineates as colourful.
00:05:56 Yet an unconvincing Lions begin the competition on a bad footing in the Guardian Post with a draw against Guinea on Afcon, opening the Advocate,
00:06:06 a performance the Sun newspaper describes as a 10-man Guinea holding Lac Loster Cameroon to one-all draw.
00:06:13 To the voice, the Lions roar to draw with Guinea on the dogs.
00:06:17 The interest of Cameroon Tribune is in how the Indomitable Lions can solve Senegal's equation in their second day of playing a competition
00:06:26 where underdogs defy expectations and punish perceived giants in the post-weekend.
00:06:32 The voice presents Cameroon vs Senegal match as leadership battle of the Lions.
00:06:38 A Lions affair according to Cameroon Tribune which ends with the Indomitable Lions disappointing again in the Guardian Post losing 3-1 to the Taranga Lions of Senegal.
00:06:50 Then Bishops of Cameroon denounce widespread corruption, poverty and insecurity in eco-outlook.
00:06:58 Municipal update is more precise that the Bishops denounce rising poverty and terrorism at the end of their confab in Mawo
00:07:06 during which Catholic Bishops wept for Cameroon in Newswatch lamenting overgrowing poverty and atrocities in northwest, southwest and far north regions
00:07:16 while calling for greater justice and condemning same-sex marriage.
00:07:20 Happening at a time the Boye Diocese hiccup finds rest.
00:07:24 Bishop Bushu backtracks, Bishop Bibi backpedals, writes the Advocate.
00:07:30 A reconciliation also reported by the Sun newspaper that quotes Bishop Bushu as saying he regrets if he ever created an impression to undermine Bishop Bibi's authority.
00:07:42 By doing so Newswatch sees a new dawn in Boye Diocese as Bishops Bibi and Bushu find peace and opt for unity.
00:07:52 Government is then reported in search of over 899 billion CFE funds for the construction of Phase 2 of the Yande-Dwala Motorway in the Hera Tribune.
00:08:02 At the same time a whopping 748,000 tonnes of petroleum products are envisaged for import by government during the first quarter of 2024 in Cameroon.
00:08:14 In municipal updates, challenges which government warns to tackle by pursuing inclusive growth and competitiveness as announced by the Minister of Finance during the launch of the state budget in Mawa in The Guardian Post.
00:08:28 Another challenge to deal with remains that of the CDC's salary arrears which stands at 35 billion CFE in the horizon and thus BIA's order for government to stop ostentatious use of state funds in the post-weekender could be a way out and boosting the resilience of Cameroon's economy another option.
00:08:50 But for this to happen municipal updates sees ghost town in North West and South West is toppable just when the median evaluates five years of Dien Ngu Tich as Prime Minister with beta suite balance sheet.
00:09:04 The Sun newspaper reports that the Secretary General and Commissioners of the Bilingualism Commission are in standoff but the extortions from citizens seeking to establish ID cards and birth certificates preoccupies Newswatch the most.
00:09:21 A gendarme officer then kills a pregnant woman at security control post in Okoyong in the horizon. Industrial shipyard workers threaten yet another indefinite strike action in the post.
00:09:35 There is good news for UPC supporters in municipal updates as worrying UPC factions battling to reconcile ahead of future elections and as voters register on electoral lists, Nintjo accuses a lack of plot to favour BIA in the horizon yet early candidates for 2025 presidential elections are making their intentions known.
00:09:59 Thank you very much Emanuella ladies and gentlemen if you are just tuning in this is Press Hour and we are broadcasting live from Studio 4 in the Production Centre, Mbala 2, Yaoundé of SIA TV.
00:10:21 Our topic for today is Bilingualism theory or practice in Cameroon. Article 1 sub 3 of the Constitution of Cameroon that is our fundamental law talks about the equal status of French and English as official languages but there have been complaints on how this is practiced.
00:10:47 Many other text laws are there, policies have been made, so many of them pushing Cameroonians to practice English and French as two official languages of equal status in all its aspects.
00:11:06 But we are questioning today on Press Hour, is it actually theory as the text say or it is translated into action practice within the daily activity interventions of Cameroonians. That's what we are talking about and we are not going to introduce the panelists again we did that before.
00:11:30 We are just going to ask this question around the panel, the first one beginning with Eugene Ndi simply is there a problem of practice of English and French as two official languages in Cameroon having equal status and value.
00:11:51 Yes, thank you, Kili and thank you for giving me the pride of place. I think there is a big problem of bilingualism practicing English and French like you said in your introduction. The two languages are supposed to have equal status in our country but we have this impression that we are in a semi-monolingual country where one language is taking precedence over another.
00:12:17 I say so because as I am a journalist and we work most often with official documents and most of these official documents the only thing you see in English is Republic of Cameroon, Peace, Work, Fatherland, the content remains in French.
00:12:32 For instance, as an English speaking journalist who has been working in English you see it remains only in French. Sometimes it is issued in French and maybe after an outcry it is translated and the translation sometimes also is a problem.
00:12:49 So I want to say that the two languages do not have equal status as it is supposed to be as stated in the constitution. The constitution even says that the official languages will be English and French. In French they will say Anglais et Francais. So if you want to go alphabetically you see that English is supposed to be first.
00:13:14 So you want to bring a new problem?
00:13:16 No, I am not bringing a new problem.
00:13:19 Which one comes first should not even be the problem because we would have been creating a problem by solving what we want to solve today.
00:13:25 The one that is even mentioned first has been relegated to the background. For instance, let's have one example. When the head of state is speaking to the nation, for instance, he begins by speaking in French.
00:13:45 Those who do not understand French or those Cameroonians who are of English speaking, they have to wait for like say 15 minutes for him to be done. Then they bring in an interpreter.
00:14:00 If the two languages had equal status, the head of state would ensure that he too can switch from English to French and that too would be telling people that this is our country and that we have to be making efforts in doing that. It has not happened to the best of my knowledge.
00:14:17 In addressing the nation at the end of the year, the head of state has addressed people exclusively in English. It happened in Bamenda, it has happened in Boya. He speaks good English. If you want I can give you copies of those instances.
00:14:37 I was in Boya and I was in Bamenda during the 50th anniversary of the armed forces. I think that is when we are seeing.
00:14:43 Long before that in 1985, he spoke English. In 1987, he addressed people when he went there. That is what we are asking for. If he goes to the North West today, he should speak in English and French.
00:15:02 To me it is not about going to speak English and French or English in the North West. He is the head of state and the father of the nation. So he should be able to preach by example.
00:15:14 His speech is translated.
00:15:16 That is what I am saying.
00:15:18 I am giving you one instance. It is not like it is done, now it ends, they go and translate the text and bring it after some time. It is just one sequence.
00:15:30 His speech is good and fine. You and I are saying the same thing. His speech is translated. That one is different from him speaking to the people and switching from one language to the other.
00:15:42 That is what I am saying.
00:15:44 We have understood you.
00:15:46 At the level of the head of state, as much recently as I can understand, we have not seen that from policy makers like the president of the senate, the president of the national assembly. We have not seen that.
00:15:57 But these are people we look up to. So they are supposed to start by preaching, by using this example.
00:16:04 It is true that the translation comes afterwards. It may even come simultaneously. But what about somebody who is watching them, who does not have access to the documentation?
00:16:17 Yes, what the text says, the text actually talks about bilingualism and says it has to be, when we look at the 2019 text on bilingualism in Cameroon, that follows what the constitution says.
00:16:34 We see some of the missions says, guarantee the right of every citizen to obtain information and official documents in the language of their choice.
00:16:46 Guarantee the simultaneous publication and dissemination of legislative and regulatory instruments in both official languages.
00:16:59 Meaning being of equal value. So concerning what we have talked about, the speech of the head of state, it respects this text.
00:17:08 It respects the text because it is done simultaneously at the same time. It does not mean that he should speak English as if he was. I speak, I say one word in English, I say one word in French.
00:17:20 Perhaps you did not understand.
00:17:22 No, I understood you. You were perfect. But in what concerns the head of state, if his speech is translated simultaneously and you get it, I think it respects this text that I have read.
00:17:36 I am talking about dominance of French over English.
00:17:39 No, I am not against that point. Did I say I was against that point? I did not say that. That is why we are, I am talking about the simultaneousness of what you capitalized on.
00:17:50 That is the head of state's speech and I have quoted the law here to you. You want me to read it again and I will read it to you?
00:17:56 No. No.
00:17:57 Okay, you understood it very well.
00:17:58 I understood.
00:17:59 We are going to go to someone who understands policy. He has said that some points he has made we cannot question them. But in terms of policy, I have read what the text says here, just speaking from what he mentioned there to clarify a situation.
00:18:16 Let us say that in terms of policy, everything he put in place for bilingualism to be the way it is supposed to be in Cameroon.
00:18:24 Sure. Let us just be very clear. In terms of policy, policy is action. Action that is proposed and put in place. So there is a legislation that has been put in place and adopted by Parliament.
00:18:33 So in terms of the policy itself, it is one of the best policies that we have. As we know, most people know that Cameroon and Canada are one of the bilingual countries in the world.
00:18:40 Cameroon has one of the best policies on bilingualism actually.
00:18:43 But I also think people back at home should be able to be cognizant of the fact that there is a difference between enthusiasm and policy. And I think that my honorable guest, also panelist from Newswatch, is a little bit more enthusiastic, as I would say.
00:18:57 I also recall that the Minister of Secondary Education rarely speaks French. She speaks English all the time.
00:19:02 Which is bad.
00:19:03 No, it is not bad. What happens is that, let us just be clear, you have to speak in a language that is your predilection, which you are comfortable with.
00:19:10 Now, if you are comfortable with English and you are capable to be able to explain your policy, explain your work, then you should speak in English.
00:19:18 If you are comfortable to be able to speak in French, you should be able to speak in French, because you are Cameroonian and we have a bilingual character.
00:19:25 Now, the policy that the nation has is supposed to be able to follow with it.
00:19:29 Now, the aspect I think you would be looking at in terms of politically would be what is the level of integration or what is the level of application of bilingualism within the country, within institutions or within the educational system.
00:19:44 Now, you can rightly see that most people in Cameroon, and I would rightly say, and I think people would contradict that, most Cameroonians prefer to send their children to Anglophone-speaking schools.
00:19:54 So, you would not say that there is an anti-English sentiment. There is a pro-English sentiment because we know that the majority of countries in the world, in terms of integration, in terms of competency, revert towards English more than French.
00:20:08 So, I think, and in terms of a level of policy, the policy is there, the actions are being proposed, the actions are put in place, institutions are actually being put in place, the Bilingualism Commission since 2017.
00:20:18 Now, the question would be in terms of integration, in terms of application, in terms of visibility, because from a political standpoint, I would say that you as a journalist are saying that in terms of visibility and in terms of impact, where you are on the field to be able to report, maybe in terms of the communication, whether it be the communication cells, the information in a technical capacity is not being provided in adequate English for you to be able to reproduce that information to inform a larger number of people.
00:20:46 Now, I also do think that at the level of integration, at the level of application and visibility, there is an issue of technicality, where do you have the right competent translators? I think we have a translator here.
00:20:57 Yes, we will come to that while we invited him. But before we go to the translator, we also have the principal of the first bilingual high school in Cameroon, if I'm not making a mistake, the Government Bilingual High School Yaoundé, which many people call, simplify around the nation's capital as a school.
00:21:26 I think we have the translator as a source, but actually, Mr. També is here. Tell us, what's the level of practice? Do you first of all confirm the appellation of your school official? And then, what's the level of practice of bilingualism in your school? You can react to the former speakers and then answer this question.
00:21:48 Thank you so much, Mr. Kilian. I want to believe that there are problems in every society. There are problems in every sphere of life. But let's ask ourselves questions. What is my contribution to ensure that those problems should find solutions? I want to believe that the state has taken all necessary measures to ensure the implementation of bilingualism nationwide.
00:22:16 We have the 2019 law on official languages. The state has the sole responsibility to ensure the effective implementation of bilingualism, which implies that each ministerial department needs to take appropriate measures for effective implementation and supervision.
00:22:38 If we have to ask questions, we should begin with ourselves. Because if you take someone who walks on the street and complains about dirt, he himself throws dirt. And so, he should be the first. And so, I want to believe that in our nation, each and every one of us, in our respective spheres of action, we should endeavor to take action to ensure the status of the place.
00:23:02 Cameroon is a state of law. And it is entirely defined in that law, in law number 2019/019 of 24 December 2019. Every decision has been taken. And so, let each ministerial department take measures for that.
00:23:24 That's at the level of policy. Now, we're talking about practice.
00:23:29 Practice. I would want to talk about bilingual high school here one day. But before I go into that, since our country is a state of law, let me draw our imaginations back to the law on orientation of education in Cameroon.
00:23:47 Take article 15. It stipulates that our educative system is organized in two subsystems. One, English, and the other, French. Through which, the national option of biculturalism is reaffirmed.
00:24:07 In this same article, it further stipulates in the second paragraph that the two subsystems of education co-exist, each conserving its specificity in methods of evaluation and certification.
00:24:30 Now, in conformity to decree number 2012/267 of 11 June 2012, on the organization of the Ministry of Secondary Education, the Ministry of Secondary Education has the responsibility in drawing up and implementing government policy with regards to secondary education and teacher training.
00:24:59 Now, in the accomplishment of her missions, she has at her disposal a private secretary, general inspectorate of services, general inspectorate of teaching, a central administration, external services, I can talk about the regional division of the center, and funding.
00:25:22 Now, she has schools. One of them is yours. Take yours as a case in point.
00:25:32 That's where I'm coming.
00:25:35 Because I will not be questioning you on what's happening in the ministry now. That's just what I wanted to ask you because you stayed so long there and I wanted to ask you, are you sure that users of that ministry will say when they go there today, they have services in English for those who need English, and those who need French, they get the same services that they have.
00:26:00 That ministry, we are not trying to take it as one out of, we're just saying in all the ministries, that's just an example. What happens in your school?
00:26:11 Now, our school is peculiar. Before I let you know what happens in our school, I would like the public to know that in the general inspectorate of teaching, there are inspectorates in charge of pedagogy, and there is one of them which is in charge of the teaching and promotion of bilingualism.
00:26:33 In FAS, the teaching and promotion of English to the French subsystem, the students of the French subsystem, and the teaching and promotion of French to students of the English subsystem.
00:26:46 And now, in Bilingual High School, Yaoundé, there are four options of bilingualism, measures of implementing this policy. The first, English is taught to students of the French subsystem.
00:27:05 This is the case of GHS Ngusu, in Yaoundé. Now, French is taught to students of non-bilingual Anglo-Saxon institutions. For instance, GHS Atiyala, in Baminda, or GHS Bukuanga.
00:27:27 There is a third option, where we have bilingual schools with the coexistence of the two subsystems, in which both students and teachers, in fact, the entire members of the entire educative community, interact in the two official languages.
00:27:46 Now, there is a fourth option, where we have, in pilot institutions, we have the special bilingual education program, or Programme d'Education Bilingue, Special, introduced for students successful at the placement test.
00:28:04 These students, the overall success is that, at the end of the seven-year course, they become perfect bilingual Cameroonians.
00:28:19 You've graduated the first batch already?
00:28:21 We have lots of them. Annually, we graduate batches. And those who are now in the process...
00:28:28 Have you followed them now?
00:28:29 Of course we do! We would not want to maybe blow our trumpet, but I think that...
00:28:34 No, you have the trumpet here. Blow it. Tell us.
00:28:36 Yes, we have students. We have students here. One who is in Terminal, who is in the French cultural background, and who can express herself in English.
00:28:48 Okay, we have them here.
00:28:49 We have one who is in the English system, and who is... So, these examples...
00:28:54 We're going to have them when the time comes. Let me go to a translator who is a linguist, who is a translator in the Ministry.
00:29:05 What happens, that texts come out, mostly like Eugene said, what we know, reality is we have them in French, and sometimes we have them in English, and sometimes we don't even have them at all in English.
00:29:23 Whereas, we read the texts, and it said, "The official languages of Cameroon shall be English-French. The official languages of Cameroon shall be equal in value.
00:29:37 The law shall apply to all national public institutions and regional and local authorities. There is no exception."
00:29:47 What happens, that we get texts in one language?
00:29:51 Okay. Thank you very much, Kilian. But I think before I get to that question, let me start behind.
00:29:57 Because there are some very interesting things that I said, which I want to react to, and I have to contribute to equally.
00:30:03 The first issue, the first question was actually whether the policies were actually tailored to impact the society, for it to be practiced.
00:30:16 I think, coming to that, the issue we have in Cameroon is not an issue of policy. The political analysts will agree with that.
00:30:27 We all agree.
00:30:28 We always have very good policies. If we want to talk about the policies, the first of all, the first thing is, we have it in the constitution, the first article.
00:30:36 The first article is the topic sentence. That's how you get into it.
00:30:39 Article 1, sub 3.
00:30:41 Exactly. So it is there. It is there. Then secondly, secondly, you have translation services in all state institutions.
00:30:52 Then what happens?
00:30:53 I'm coming. You have, the government spent a lot of money, has invested a lot, in training and employing translators.
00:31:03 You know those who started this, the translation, they were trained even out of the country, before we ever even had a national translation school.
00:31:11 Yes, they were trained out of the country, on government sponsor, and they were brought back unemployed.
00:31:16 So meaning that the policies are there.
00:31:18 Then, the issue, to come to this question now, why some documents may not always, the issue, the implementation, down, is at personal level.
00:31:29 And that is why, despite all those good policies, there is some special impetus that is required for it to be driven across effectively.
00:31:38 Then there is a technical issue too. The technical issue is, when a document is conceived, there is always a difference between the time of conception of a document, and the time it is converted into the other language.
00:31:51 Those conceiving the document, the service, the structure that is conceiving the document, will take all the time.
00:31:56 You know what it means to conceive a document. They take all the time.
00:31:59 And when it is time for the document to be translated into the other language, maybe they misconceive it and think that the process will just be like, that the translation is like a photocopy machine.
00:32:12 That they will just take it there, and then within 10, 4, 5 minutes, it is ready.
00:32:17 Which is not always the case.
00:32:18 And then, those, the services are...
00:32:21 That we agree.
00:32:22 Yes.
00:32:23 It's a whole document. What about a simple communiqué? Simple communiqué.
00:32:27 Communiqué should not be a problem to the translation service.
00:32:32 Communiqué should be a matter of, as an expert, as a professional, a simple communiqué should not take hours, days, and sometimes it never comes out.
00:32:43 Yes, so I was trying to say that it all depends on the level of the individual who wants to implement it.
00:32:49 The person who has to sign that release, if the person wants to sign the two versions, everything will be done for the two versions to be ready at the same time.
00:32:58 If the first version is submitted to the signatory authority before the second version, then the authority may be obliged to just sign while waiting for the second one.
00:33:13 And where it is signed while waiting for the second one, the second one at the end may not even have any value.
00:33:18 Even those who are supposed to work on that second one may not even have that zeal again to work because they are coming on a document that is already public.
00:33:25 Mr. Abgo really stated, and I have the same documents here, that government is supposed to ensure the effective translation into action, not translation of text, of the policies.
00:33:42 So when it happens like that, why is there no follow-up, like sanctions, if it's not on press, the EUGENE will not come and complain?
00:33:54 But we should complain to those authorities.
00:33:57 So I was, you know, I started by saying...
00:34:00 And we have a commission, a national commission, for the bilingualism and for the promotion of bilingualism and multiculturalism.
00:34:08 How many people care to go up to them to complain?
00:34:11 I was actually driving at that.
00:34:12 You know I started by saying that what we lack here is not policies.
00:34:15 The problem is translating those policies into effective action, not only action, but effective action.
00:34:21 And that is where the principal started by saying something, that we should always ask ourselves, what contribution do we make at personal level, to see that those policies are driven across.
00:34:32 So the issue here, if you look at the commission, just give me that one minute.
00:34:37 If you look at the commission, for example, the commission is there, it is a consultant, it is an advisory organ.
00:34:43 Only an advisory organ.
00:34:45 And that is why, me, knowing that it is an advisory organ, why should I spend time going up there to complain, knowing that it will end at the level of a complaint, and they can only maybe give their own impressions about the complaint I've given.
00:34:55 If the commission were empowered, were given some power to be able to take action, to be able to draw the attention of certain institutions who are not implementing that policy,
00:35:05 if they could do something beyond just being an advisory organ, then we would be going a step further.
00:35:11 But the fact, as long as they remain an advisory organ, you know...
00:35:15 I will stay with the commission, after that we are going to leave the commission alone.
00:35:21 We are just leaving it alone to continue with the discussions, not like saying that the commission is not completely involved in the discussion.
00:35:28 If you create a commission, political analyst, it is like you buy a dog to watch over enemies around your house.
00:35:37 Right?
00:35:39 That dog should bark to signal, even if you didn't give it the right to bite.
00:35:47 The dog should bark each time there are enemies around.
00:35:51 Do you think that the commission is barking if it doesn't have the right to bite?
00:35:55 It should bark enough.
00:35:57 I think...
00:35:58 For the owner to know that, yes, there is something wrong.
00:36:02 I think the commission is barking, barking very loud actually.
00:36:06 But I think also we are forgetting one issue in the implementation, is the visibility.
00:36:10 I think the linguist, the translator here pointed out effective.
00:36:15 And I think in that part, in effective and policy, sometimes there is a margin, and in that margin there are errors.
00:36:21 I'm just talking about it as a political analyst.
00:36:24 When you talk about policy and action, you are talking about the management of people.
00:36:27 And when you are talking about the management of people, you have to also look at the multiculturalism aspect of it, where the ethnicities of the people.
00:36:33 We are talking about a bilingual character of a nation where 80% is French, in terms of origin.
00:36:38 But we are looking at the other 20%, which we will look at maybe say the two regions to understand that is the anglophone subsystem.
00:36:44 Now, let's move our rounds and move forward into political aspect where we are talking about the technicality of the documents that are being released.
00:36:51 You realize that at a certain point, that's why we were able to say that decentralization is very important, NASLA is very important.
00:36:59 Because at a certain level of administrative policy and implementation, you need technical experts.
00:37:04 That's why you have common law. That's why you have the OHADA.
00:37:07 So in a sense that I think there is a competency issue where sometimes those who come from the French subsystem and want to be able to translate,
00:37:15 sometimes do not have the adequate staff in terms of the English subsystem to be able to perfectly technically translate.
00:37:22 Now, the translator talked about something where when there is a first version that is released,
00:37:26 and we can attest to it to understand that there has always been a law where the state has been trying to say we have to be careful with what's on social media.
00:37:34 Which means that there is the advent of social media, which means that when communiques are released, the first impression stays.
00:37:43 Which means that the backtracking of that in a political standpoint has lesser importance than actually the effective message that was being communicated.
00:37:53 I would not feel like that we go to the social media. If you do not give a gap, your document will not get to social media.
00:38:00 Immediately you have information to give, don't wait for social media to get the information before you start coming from behind to start accusing social media.
00:38:10 We have information we should set. So we are going to complain to complete this national commission with you, Eugene.
00:38:20 They should back enough, they should take initiative.
00:38:25 Yes, Kilian, thank you very much. The national commission, like Mr. Achoo said, is doing, is backing, according to him.
00:38:37 I know that the commission has people who are members who have some integrity and who are willing to change.
00:38:46 But as the political analyst will just say, there is a difference between having a policy and then implementing it effectively.
00:38:57 And Mr. Achoo just confirmed that effective implementation depends now on the individual.
00:39:02 I see. I will not go to interview a public servant, a state employee, and then he tells me "je ne parle pas français".
00:39:14 Then I will go and report to national commission knowing that they will not be able to do anything to that person.
00:39:19 Because it is an advisory body, as we agree. You give an advice, and the person you advise can take the advice as well as he cannot take it.
00:39:27 As long as we continue making it an advisory organ, if I am supposed to come here and speak in French, and I come and speak in English,
00:39:37 and you report me to the national commission, they will have nothing to do to me.
00:39:41 Until you give them powers that they can sanction somebody.
00:39:47 If Kilian is appointed general manager of CRTV, I come and say...
00:39:52 I am not saying that you are. If you are appointed, and then I come with a microphone to interview you about your plan of action,
00:40:01 you should be able to say that in French. It should not be like our own Anglophone minister who will say "no".
00:40:07 No. You are a state functionary. You should be able to speak to the state.
00:40:12 You don't say "je ne parle pas français". Arrogantly, "je ne parle pas l'anglais".
00:40:16 No. Nobody condones that, Eugene. But let me advise.
00:40:22 We have all of this happening on a daily basis. If we cannot report to the national commission, it will be a waste of time.
00:40:29 Let me show you how it is not a waste of time.
00:40:31 They don't have sanctions. They cannot sanction the person.
00:40:34 So for me, that goes through it every day. I cannot waste time going there.
00:40:38 Eugene, let me translate. I am not saying that I am perfect. What you are saying in other words is that if I send someone to come and take a message from you to me,
00:40:52 you will probably not give the message because the person is not me to treat the message.
00:40:59 If the commission has been put in place, go report because the commission writes reports.
00:41:05 If you report to the commission, the commission reports to the authority under which it is placed, your complaint will go up there and I think that is the spirit of that commission.
00:41:16 Implementation, as he said, will still depend on the individual who receives it.
00:41:20 So it is somehow a waste of time. What I am saying is let the commission be given the powers to sanction.
00:41:27 The moment they know that they have powers to sanction and people know, they will not be there.
00:41:33 Unfortunately, as we saw in the press review, members of the commission and the secretary general are spending their time fighting the raps of our huge resources that are given to them.
00:41:44 Just one minute, Mr. Ntambe has not said anything on that and we are going to move forward.
00:41:51 I just wanted to say that the various administrations have been stratified and so every administrator who gives instructions should follow up to ensure that it is implemented.
00:42:05 And that is so if each and everyone can do this, there would be no problem.
00:42:11 I have been at the bank, I say same, at one of the bankers and one of the personnel could not receive me because he said he does not understand that.
00:42:21 And I said, do you know that there is a law and I told him if he cannot receive me, then he is not authorized to sit on that seat.
00:42:30 And I said, if you don't receive me, then I have to talk to the head of this service.
00:42:34 And he had to do it. So each and every one of us has a role.
00:42:39 The various administrations, when they give instructions, they should follow up, supervise, ensure that the instructions that have been given are.
00:42:47 I think that is what we should do, Eugene.
00:42:50 I just wanted to compliment something the principal just spoke, you know, and I would want to add that he empowers his discipline masters.
00:42:59 And the respect and the fear the students will have for the discipline master will start with the authorities he is giving the discipline master.
00:43:08 If the student knows that going to the discipline master, there won't be anything, the student will never go to the discipline master to report.
00:43:14 So when you empower the discipline master, he will take action.
00:43:17 Another first contribution I wanted to make concerning the commission is I would have loved that 15-man panel of members of the commission to be enriched with people we have known in that area of bilingualism.
00:43:36 You know that the commission is a creation of yesterday and there have been so many actions taken by the government to ensure effective implementation of bilingualism.
00:43:48 And we knew big names that were in those structures.
00:43:51 We know that the presidency has always had a translation unit, which has been doing wonderful work.
00:43:55 We know that there is never a monolingual version of the National Gazette.
00:44:03 We have people who do those things. So they have been working on that and we would have expected people who have been experienced in that area to feature among the members of the commission, which I don't think is the case.
00:44:16 The principal said something, he talked of the inspectorate or what I say, inspector coordinator of bilingualism.
00:44:22 That's a post that exists in the ministry and those are people who have really been working and boosting the promotion of bilingualism.
00:44:28 Those are names that would have featured there too. So that we should have people who are coming in, who are continuing what they have been doing.
00:44:35 But we have the impression that the commission actually has people who are actually starting.
00:44:40 For us, it's a continuity.
00:44:42 Everyone in that commission has a solid base, probably not the type of base you want.
00:44:46 Exactly.
00:44:47 Well, we have heard you. We are going to listen to some Cameroonians, samples, and the question we asked them was what they think of the practice of bilingualism in Cameroon.
00:45:02 [Music]
00:45:20 In my opinion, it's a 50/50. The weight is more on Anglophones to speak French and Francophones seem a little more comfortable and expect Anglophones to learn French.
00:45:35 But the few who are doing it, are doing it very well.
00:45:39 When we come to the schools, you realize that the French parents have their children in English schools, which boosts the bilingualism.
00:45:48 So in a short while from now, we will have very many Cameroonians who are very bilingual.
00:45:54 Cameroonians are not really bilingual. But I think some parents usually take good initiatives, like in the Francophone section, by sending their children to the English, Anglo-Saxon education to study English.
00:46:11 But in the parts of the Anglophones, I don't really know. I don't know. But I for one am an Anglophone. I can speak both languages.
00:46:21 I can give it a score of 75% that bilingualism is practiced in Cameroon. And in Jumping Jacks, I can say our children are bilingual.
00:46:30 It's an Anglo-Saxon school, but French is being taught in all the classes, from nursery to class 6, at least four times a week. So with that, it enables the children to be fluent in English and in French.
00:46:43 Through education, with the Anglophone, you can learn the French language as you go to school.
00:46:50 Secondly, the Francophone can equally learn the English language as they go to school.
00:46:54 And you can equally learn through business, right? This is a business place. So we encounter the English person and the French, just by exchanging language, we communicate.
00:47:13 Yes, that vox pop was done for us by Delphine Kwanchwa, a journalism student here in the newsroom at Mbala II in Yonge.
00:47:28 I have two students here with me, Sinje Meyo-Poul. Yes, Sinje Meyo-Poul is from five students in the English subsystem of education.
00:47:50 I am going to improvise a question and ask you, how is this practice? Is there a real practice in your bilingual school?
00:48:07 [Sinje Meyo-Poul speaks in French]
00:48:28 [Sinje Meyo-Poul speaks in French]
00:48:38 [Sinje Meyo-Poul speaks in French]
00:49:04 [Sinje Meyo-Poul speaks in French]
00:49:14 [Sinje Meyo-Poul speaks in French]
00:49:37 Okay, just to tell you that that is Sinje Meyo-Poul, who is a form five student in Government Bilingual High School, Yaoundé, who is English speaking.
00:49:50 And to my left, to the extreme left of the set is Ayangma Asala Ingrid, who is a student of Terminal, equivalent of Up 6 in the English subsystem.
00:50:05 I am going to ask you this question in English and you answer in English.
00:50:15 Yes, that is it. Ayangma Asala Ingrid, tell us, what are the particular problems you face in your school practicing bilingualism?
00:50:31 Thank you, Mr. Director, for giving me the floor. My name is Ayangma Asala Ingrid Sandra. I am in Terminal, equivalent of Government Bilingual High School, Yaoundé.
00:50:42 We are facing problems in our school relating to bilingualism because in every domain we have problems.
00:50:53 So, the first problem is that it is a true difficulty for French students to learn the English language.
00:51:06 But this problem is not real, it is not...
00:51:13 It hinders your progress.
00:51:16 Because I am a student of Terminal, in the Francophone system, and I am doing bilingualism since I am in 6th grade.
00:51:27 Ingrid says that there are difficulties, but Sandra says that there are none.
00:51:34 Sandra, can you tell us, even in school, she says that there are difficulties, in school you say that there are none.
00:51:41 She says that there are difficulties, but that it is not so considerable.
00:51:47 But you have not even seen the difficulties, you have spoken of things in a perfect situation.
00:51:55 It is true that the word "perfect" is a little bit elevated, but I am from the Anglophone sub-system, and we always learn French, so continually, so it is not really a difficulty for us in the Anglophone sub-system.
00:52:14 But for the Francophones, it is where they will find a little difficulty in learning English, but we are already used to it.
00:52:23 Yes, Ingrid, what do you think that can be done to solve the little problem that you have?
00:52:30 There are already many solutions relating to the problem.
00:52:35 For example, we have the best teacher in English.
00:52:39 Give credit to that teacher, who is that teacher's name? What is the name of the teacher?
00:52:44 Mrs. Bayek.
00:52:46 Mrs. Bayek, she is my best teacher of English.
00:52:49 In the bilingualism sub-system, since I am in CISIUM, I was a typical Francophone, but now I am able to talk in English and French.
00:53:01 Thank you very much.
00:53:02 Now, I am the president of the Journalism Club, and I know that some students are facing several problems, but now, with the help of our teacher and our principal, it is easy now to manage the two languages.
00:53:23 For example, in the Journalism Club, we have students of OPASIX, we have students of TEMNAL, we have students of CISIUM, we have students of French.
00:53:32 From all the levels.
00:53:34 Yes, from all the levels, and they interact.
00:53:37 Thank you very much. You should be proud of these students.
00:53:41 It is a call that we have been given. We have been called as heads of institutions, as deputy heads, as senior discipline masters. We are demanded to effect a positive change to ensure that the objectives of the intuitive system is attained.
00:53:59 And so, we are just playing our role. And that is why I want to emphasize that if each and everyone has to play his role or her role, everything is going to be fine.
00:54:08 I want to also believe that this is an opportunity for us to explain to parents, whose students always succeed in the special bilingual education program.
00:54:19 Most of the parents in the French subsystem, whose kids come for the special bilingual education program, they believe that their children are going completely to be transformed.
00:54:33 But they need to understand that the special bilingual education program has three modules.
00:54:43 First of all, there is intensive French, which is taught to the English subsystem.
00:54:50 And there is anglais intensif, which is taught to students of the French subsystem.
00:54:55 There is the cross curricular module, which enables teachers to accompany students in non-linguistic disciplines, such as education à la citoyenneté, which is taught to the students of the English subsystem.
00:55:12 Education sportive and travel manuel.
00:55:17 Now, for those in the French subsystem, what they are taught is citizenship education, sports and physical education, manual level.
00:55:27 There is the third, which is the co-curricular module.
00:55:31 This has to do with involving extra class activities, just like those of the language clubs, which give possibilities for students to express themselves.
00:55:43 Eugene, we have four minutes left to go.
00:55:47 This is the question we are going to answer.
00:55:50 There are so many other questions we would have loved to answer.
00:55:52 What should be done to those officials, high standing, low standing in Cameroon, who do not respect the law on bilingualism?
00:56:02 I have said it before. Let there be sanctions.
00:56:06 We have been sensitizing for 60 years now.
00:56:09 We keep sensitizing, and it appears the method is not working.
00:56:14 A political analyst is here.
00:56:16 If you analyze, you see sensitization is not working because little is changing.
00:56:20 So, it is time we move from this sensitization to some sanctions.
00:56:26 Empower organs like the National Commission on Bilingualism, Multiculturalism.
00:56:31 Let them be sanctioning, so that when you are doing something, you know what awaits you.
00:56:35 Thank you very much.
00:56:36 I am not going to ask you the same question. I think you are going to elaborate on what he is saying.
00:56:40 There is another option, solution, so many people have been talking about.
00:56:46 Incentive. What should be done in that domain of incentive?
00:56:50 Yes. I think there is already something which is going to be...
00:56:53 Incentive to do so, do better.
00:56:55 Yes. I think there is already... The fact that there is a second language in any public exam is already something to motivate people to want to be bilingual.
00:57:07 But I want to suggest that let those who are given certain managerial positions, let that aspect of bilingualism...
00:57:15 Be taken into consideration.
00:57:16 Not only taken, but be given a certain level of importance, so that people who dream to ever get to certain levels should start preparing for those levels by trying to be bilingual.
00:57:27 Follow-up. Because you have been talking about implementation.
00:57:30 Sure.
00:57:31 How should follow-up be done?
00:57:33 The follow-up should be done, but I also want to make sure, as a political analyst, I would want also to be realistic, because that is part of political policy.
00:57:39 Political policy is proposed, action is proposed, but it is follow-up and it could take years.
00:57:43 We also have to consider the backdrop of the nation and the ethnic differences in the nation.
00:57:48 Which means that if you come from a Francophone family, predominantly in your family, when these students go home, they speak French.
00:57:53 So you will not necessarily have students who speak French or English at school, but go home and speak a different language.
00:57:59 Now, the parents might not be bilingual, but we are moving towards a transgenerational society where in the next 15 years, parents will be more bilingual than they used to be.
00:58:08 Now, on the enforceability aspect, because we are looking at the advisory role of the multiculturalism commission, that advisory role should be kept,
00:58:16 but the enforceability should be kept in a certain way that the portfolios of those who manage the competent personnel can then enforce the sanctions.
00:58:24 Not the fact that the culturalism commission sanctions them.
00:58:28 It can actually write, those reports can be done, and the sanctions are imputed and made at the level of the ministries where it is supposed to be.
00:58:35 Whether it be private sector or public sector.
00:58:38 Yes, and the law actually covers both public and private sector.
00:58:41 Thank you very much. We are going to continue with this topic next week.
00:58:47 We are going to dig deep and see in the various public and private institutions during the week to see whether there is actually the practice of bilingualism.
00:58:56 Some of the erroneous translations we are going to show you next week, and then we will bring more panelists here.
00:59:03 Just one word, Mr. Tambe, the National Bilingualism Day is tomorrow.
00:59:08 Your minister is going to launch it. But talking about your school, it's the first school. When was it created?
00:59:15 That was in 1973, ten years after grammar school, Moliku Boya, was created.
00:59:24 And a few years before that, when College Bilingualisation, COBA, was created. That was in 19... two years before.
00:59:40 Actually, the school is 50 years, and so we are intending to celebrate the 50th anniversary.
00:59:47 It's an opportunity which I would like to invite the former students of the institution.
00:59:51 And you invite all the panelists here. Thank you very much.
00:59:55 As we say, we are going to continue with this topic next week because the Minister of Secondary Education should be launching the National Bilingualism Day tomorrow.
01:00:05 And we have a good number of activities we cannot just sweep under the table.
01:00:09 Ladies and gentlemen, you had Eugene D. Eugene D., who is the publisher and editor-in-chief of Newswatch, a newspaper.
01:00:18 Tambe Abgod, Teddy, Tabe Nkwere, who is the principal of the government bilingual high school, Yaounde.
01:00:27 You had Kenneth Chuo, who is a linguist. Paul Anchan, political analyst.
01:00:32 We had our two girls, the students, Cindy Mayo-Paul, who is a Form 5 student, and Ayangma Asala Ingrid Temenaw, equivalent of Opsik, both students of the government bilingual high school, Yaounde.
01:00:47 Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, for your time.
01:00:50 This program will be rebroadcast on Monday at 2.30.
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