In a special conversation with Lehren Retro, Ramanand Sagar's son, Prem Sagar, talks in detail about his father's decision to create Ramayana at that time and the difficulties faced during its production. He shares insights into how people criticized his father for choosing to make Ramayana. Watch the complete interview with Prem Sagar.
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00:00:00 Ramanand Sagar was born and sent to this Dhriti to rewrite Ramayana, not to write Ramayana.
00:00:09 One in every twelve human beings has seen Ramayana.
00:00:12 Ramayana in the world.
00:00:13 In the world.
00:00:14 By Sanumanji.
00:00:16 And dedication to what extent.
00:00:19 His makeup took 3-4 hours.
00:00:23 Then his tail.
00:00:25 Now that his tail is there, where will he sit?
00:00:28 I didn't find a single person who supported Papaji as Ramayana.
00:00:33 Really?
00:00:34 He has gone so far.
00:00:36 Someone called the secretary.
00:00:38 Get him out.
00:00:40 Someone said, go and tell your father.
00:00:43 Does anyone go from big screen to small screen?
00:00:45 What has happened to you people?
00:00:47 Are you all gone nuts?
00:00:49 The Ramayana that you made, your father and you made.
00:00:57 You know the casting was so perfect.
00:01:01 Did you have the cast at your beck and call?
00:01:04 Did they give their entire dedication to the Ramayana?
00:01:08 And is that what you wanted when you signed them?
00:01:10 That you have to be there, all there for the Ramayana when we are shooting it.
00:01:15 Or were they coming, going, doing what they want, doing 10 films and then coming back?
00:01:20 Or were they all dedicated to the Ramayana?
00:01:24 See, an actor is just clay.
00:01:29 You have to mould him.
00:01:31 He is the director's media.
00:01:33 So I beg to differ.
00:01:35 And the actor is available.
00:01:37 Then you take a star.
00:01:39 Now star and actor are different.
00:01:42 Agreed.
00:01:43 So you went for actors, isn't it?
00:01:45 Correct. That's one.
00:01:46 Second, we had a problem.
00:01:48 When Papaji had thought of Ramayana in 1976, during the making of Charas,
00:01:56 when he saw the first TV in the French Alps, he decided to shift to TV.
00:02:02 And we were all against it.
00:02:04 From big screen and a moving Mughal, you cannot do that.
00:02:07 And we wanted Ghee, Dalkar, Charas, what all, I mean, super hit upon super hit.
00:02:14 That was a learning period to make Ramayana.
00:02:17 Right.
00:02:18 We were being taught to create mass media.
00:02:20 So, but he had to make Ramayana.
00:02:22 He was born to make Ramayana.
00:02:24 He writes Ramayana.
00:02:25 I would say Ramayana cannot be written.
00:02:27 Just going off the track,
00:02:30 Sabse pehdi baar Ramayana, Shiv Bharwan ne rachna ki thi to Parvati Maa.
00:02:36 And udhar Kaag Basundi ji baitha bhai tha.
00:02:39 Toh Kaag Basundi ji ne jaayega Panchi Sabha mein kahi.
00:02:42 Udhar se Valmiki, Valmiki se Tulsi, Tulsi ne Lippi mein likhi.
00:02:46 Hain na?
00:02:47 Kyunki uss time the language had come.
00:02:49 So, Ramanand Sagar was born and sent to this dharti to rewrite Ramayana.
00:02:56 Not to write Ramayana.
00:02:58 Not to make Ramayana.
00:03:00 Ramayana toh har manu vrat mein aati hai.
00:03:03 Kaag Basundi toh chauda baar dekhte hai.
00:03:06 He is outside the globe.
00:03:07 He is seeing from here.
00:03:08 And udhar se woh dekhta hai, Ram roti kha raha hai, ro raha hai.
00:03:11 And the same sequence is repeated because he is seeing the lakli Ramayana.
00:03:15 So, Ram toh har yug mein aayegi na?
00:03:18 Har manu vrat mein aayegi.
00:03:20 So, there are 14 manus.
00:03:22 So, it's a very scientific exact kind of a thinking.
00:03:26 Vishnu avataar hoga, pralye hogi, maa pralye hogi, Vishnu ki naabi ke gaul sari srashti goye.
00:03:33 It's all a very very calculated thinking process of the whole srashti is working.
00:03:38 Because there is something called gaul, there is something called Vishnu.
00:03:42 And Ram is Vishnu avataar.
00:03:44 So, sabse bada problem tha ki the main problem around the world was yeh mukut aur mooch nahi chalega.
00:03:56 And some of them told me, tera papa 60 ho gaya, un satag gaye.
00:04:01 Really?
00:04:02 Yes.
00:04:03 Some of the biggest people in this world.
00:04:05 He gave me a suitcase, briefcase, with Ramayana pamphlets.
00:04:10 And he had friends all over the world because he was a legend, even as a filmmaker.
00:04:15 You know, people respected him.
00:04:17 Hindujas ki toh telegraph aaj bhi Arjun hai.
00:04:21 Can you imagine?
00:04:22 They were made from Arjun and Sangam.
00:04:24 What they were today.
00:04:26 Toh that's how they started their whole empire.
00:04:30 And they respect that.
00:04:32 Toh, every year, he sent me round the world, gave me a round the world ticket.
00:04:37 Main yahan se Dubai gaya, Dubai se Middle East gaya, Middle East se London, London se New York, LA, Tokyo, Singapore, Hong Kong.
00:04:49 Ek saksh nahi mila who supported Papaji as Ramayana.
00:04:55 Really?
00:04:56 Ek saksh.
00:04:58 They say, satak gaya hai, kisi ne secretary ko bulaya, bahar nikal seko.
00:05:05 Kisi ne dola, go and tell your father, koi bade screen se chote screen pe jata hai kya?
00:05:12 Kya ho gaya tum logon ko?
00:05:14 Are you all gone nuts?
00:05:16 What's happening to the Sagar empire?
00:05:18 But he had decided, jaise sar pe kafan band ke hota hai na, because he was a Ram bhakta of different intensity.
00:05:27 That I have seen.
00:05:29 Wo toh pehle se?
00:05:31 Pehle se.
00:05:32 Actually, devi bhakte, from '54.
00:05:35 Mere jo dada par dada te, wo Shiv bhakte.
00:05:39 But ye Ram bhakta kyuki wo Shiv bhakta, Ram bhakta, wo hi ki.
00:05:43 Toh Ram bhakta toh the hi, bahut bade Ram bhakta hai.
00:05:46 And he was sure ki Ramayana lani hai.
00:05:48 He was sure he'll make three.
00:05:50 Mere jitni baaki zindagi reh gahi, at the age of 60, he had decided, though he made Ramayana at the age of 70, but the age of 60 he had decided.
00:06:02 Decided to make it and he made it at 70.
00:06:04 Ya.
00:06:05 That I will make baara sampoon kala avataar Ram, sola sampoon Krishna, and shakti maa maya Durga.
00:06:16 You see, and he was sure ki main ye karunga.
00:06:20 And this was the problem.
00:06:22 And he and me had a soulmate relationship.
00:06:25 Main raat ko kabhi sota nahi tha without making him sleep.
00:06:29 Kabhi khana nahi kaha hai unse pehle.
00:06:31 Ye Pitru Rin aur Putra Dharam ka apna sochna hai.
00:06:36 Everybody, not necessary, you should follow that.
00:06:39 But mera apna chemistry hai and I have a right to live my way.
00:06:43 Because I think Pitru Rin chukai na chukai.
00:06:48 And Putra Dharam to kabhi khatami nahi hoga.
00:06:52 So even the book I have written on him is because of the same.
00:06:56 Kapil Sharma's show was also the same.
00:06:58 Yeh der se yeh sari chingari aayi hai, you know.
00:07:02 So coming back to Ramayana, he came to me, "Piram kya karein?"
00:07:10 I said, "You sure?" He said, "I am very sure. I have to do it. I have been born."
00:07:16 Akshay ke naam bhi Ram Anand tha, which was not a coincidence.
00:07:22 And the first time he saw Sagar, Varun Devta in Bombay, he called himself Sagar.
00:07:27 Meri mummy ka naam Leela tha, Ram Leela.
00:07:30 Abhi wo jib shishu paida hua tha, uska jab naam sanskaran Ram Anand hoga tha,
00:07:34 to kisko pata tha ki yeh shishu Ramayana banayega.
00:07:37 So it was not a coincidence, it was a divine, you know, union.
00:07:42 Destiny.
00:07:43 Destiny, not destiny. It was a planning. It was a divine planning.
00:07:48 Yeh atma ko bheja gaya tha, kyunki humari jo Sanatan Dharam ki jo values thi,
00:07:54 wo dilute ho rahi thi. And Ramayana mein pollution aaya gaya tha.
00:07:59 Doose nazar ke log, kyunki Ram was difficult to digest for anybody else.
00:08:06 Because he was Maryada Purushottam.
00:08:08 Ideal man, ideal father, ideal son, ideal king.
00:08:12 Aisa purush ho na, Adi purush, Maryada Purushottam.
00:08:17 To he, matlab Maryada Purushottam is not acceptable to perhaps many other mankind living here.
00:08:26 So Ramayana ko pollute kar diya gaya, Ram ban garega Sita ko, hai na?
00:08:32 And things like that.
00:08:34 And Papaji was conscious of it.
00:08:36 And he wanted to even change Ramayana according to what he thought was right.
00:08:41 And he also took lot of priestly liberty.
00:08:44 Coming down to casting, to he came to me, Prem kya karein?
00:08:48 I said, don't worry Papaji, we'll make a test marketing.
00:08:53 Hollywood mein kya karte hain, ek film jab ban jati hai,
00:08:57 to usko ek chhute se kasbe mein, Panvel mein, Karjat mein, Khopoli mein,
00:09:02 Raat ka, 9 baje ka show chalu kar dete hain, you know, nahi film ka.
00:09:07 And the full unit is there, the editor, the director, the actors, the music director,
00:09:14 and sab baith ke dekhte hain ki kaun susu karne gaya,
00:09:17 kab taaliyan baji, kab siti baji, what are the clap track, you see.
00:09:21 And they come and re-do the film and then release.
00:09:24 Okay, to wo test audience ke saath?
00:09:26 Test marketing, you know.
00:09:28 To I said, we'll test marketing.
00:09:30 I said, Papaji, ek writer, great classic writer hai, Somdev Bhatt,
00:09:36 usne 3000 saal pehle Ramayan jaisa hi subject likha tha,
00:09:41 Betal 25i, 25 stories a Betal.
00:09:44 Kahaniya bhi waise hain, moral bhi waise hain, characters bhi waise hain, dresses bhi waise hain,
00:09:50 hai na, hum Vikram Betal banatein.
00:09:53 He said, the idea is good, but isko back kaun karega?
00:09:57 Because Vikram Betal was the first of his kind on TV.
00:10:01 Absolutely, absolutely.
00:10:03 You know, costume, yeh wo hi set a trend.
00:10:05 Yes.
00:10:06 And yeh sab magic, vijayik and you know all that.
00:10:09 Absolutely.
00:10:10 Yeah, special effects and all.
00:10:12 It was a forerunner to Ramayan.
00:10:14 To Mr. R. S. Agarwal, unhone abhi abhi apni ek company shuru ki thi, Himami.
00:10:20 To mere dost the, kaafi kareeb the.
00:10:23 We used to say, Sheru Sharikat.
00:10:25 And he was founder of Ayurveda.
00:10:27 So we both had common interest, you know.
00:10:30 To I went to Agarwal saab and said, sir, ek kuch karte hain society ke liye,
00:10:37 let's bring Vikram Betal, because that will bring again lot of goodness to mankind.
00:10:43 Yes, yes.
00:10:44 You know, lot of moral value.
00:10:45 Yes.
00:10:46 And storytelling.
00:10:47 Absolutely.
00:10:48 And fascinating storytelling.
00:10:49 Correct, correct.
00:10:50 It will be fun, you know, for kids.
00:10:52 And umrum beech da, I said, Prem, good idea.
00:10:55 But Prem, mere pad as present paise nahi hain.
00:10:58 Main shuruf ek lakh rupiah dunga.
00:11:00 I said, done.
00:11:01 He got shock of his life.
00:11:03 Tu ek lakh mein 30 minute banayega kaise?
00:11:06 You know.
00:11:07 I said, sir, that is my problem.
00:11:09 Cameraman I did, lighting I did, direction I did, special effects I did.
00:11:16 Underwater city 75 rupees mein ki.
00:11:19 Mahakaal ka mandir garage mein gaya.
00:11:22 The whole Vikram Betal was shot in Sagar Villa.
00:11:26 Okay.
00:11:27 Can you beat that?
00:11:28 Wow.
00:11:29 It's not a joke.
00:11:30 It's not a joke.
00:11:31 Kume se girna, wo do aadmi paani ke liye kharu hote the, Deepika uthi, takkiye pe girti the,
00:11:37 do aadmi paani splash karte the, kume ka paani gire.
00:11:41 And camera will not shift.
00:11:44 Can you imagine we had practically 12 to 18 scenes per episode and shot everything in one day.
00:11:53 We used to shoot 23 minutes in one day.
00:11:55 Wow.
00:11:56 Yeah.
00:11:57 Because of planning.
00:11:58 I used to take a month to plan my sketches and everything.
00:12:02 And then, Vikram Betal became a hit.
00:12:05 Vikram, Betal, Betal.
00:12:08 Yes.
00:12:09 Jo market ke sabji wale the, wo chaar bhaj aayake Sagar Villa ke baad hartaal karte the,
00:12:16 aurte sabji khareedne nahi jaatite the, bache school, matlab theherne nahi jaatete the,
00:12:21 mother pe jaye.
00:12:22 Yes.
00:12:23 Then he was sure.
00:12:24 Then he said, tufan aaye, kuch aaye, you know, Ramayan je mukund mukund chalega.
00:12:32 Hain na?
00:12:33 Right.
00:12:34 So, you will see everything of Vikram Betal is Ramayan.
00:12:38 Is Ramayan.
00:12:39 Vikram is Ram.
00:12:40 That is Arun Goel.
00:12:41 Arun Goel.
00:12:42 Arun Goel to Vikram became Ram.
00:12:43 Yeah.
00:12:44 The Prince Lakshman.
00:12:45 Ji.
00:12:46 Fir the Yogi Ravan.
00:12:47 Ji.
00:12:48 Fir the warrior Veerwar Dara Singh Hanuman.
00:12:49 Ji.
00:12:50 Fir jo Raja tha, wo Meghnath.
00:12:51 Yes.
00:12:52 Hain na?
00:12:53 Yes.
00:12:54 And jo Princess thi, wo Deepika Sita.
00:12:55 Deepika.
00:12:56 And unit also.
00:12:57 Editor Subhash Sekhar.
00:12:58 Okay.
00:12:59 You know?
00:13:00 Ravindra Jain.
00:13:01 Yeah.
00:13:02 So, everything was Ramayan.
00:13:03 Vikram is Ram.
00:13:04 Vikram is Ram.
00:13:05 That is Arun Goel.
00:13:06 Arun Goel.
00:13:07 So, everything of Vikram Betal was translated into Ramayan.
00:13:11 So, the same cast, same unit, same crew, everything is the same.
00:13:16 And that is how you got your cast for Ramayan.
00:13:18 Correct.
00:13:19 At the same time while selecting the cast, I had a very, aaj bhi Sunil Lehri ko yaad
00:13:28 hai, meri cabin mein.
00:13:29 Sunil Lehri who played Lakshman.
00:13:31 He came to my cabin, you know, my assistant brought him.
00:13:36 I said shirt utaar.
00:13:37 He says Prem, I felt very funny.
00:13:38 Yeh hani mat ke shirt utaar, iski iraadi kya hai?
00:13:39 Aur un dinne mein shirtless was not in fashion.
00:13:40 No, but I wanted to see his torso.
00:13:41 That's right.
00:13:42 That's right.
00:13:43 Because he has to go where?
00:13:44 No, the actor ka jo body hai, that's a part of, uska haath kaisa hai.
00:13:45 We selected Dharmendra for aankhen because his hand was so big.
00:13:46 You needed that torso.
00:13:47 Yes.
00:13:48 So, I said, "Dharmendra, I want to see your torso."
00:13:49 He said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:13:50 I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:13:51 He said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:13:52 I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:14:16 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:14:23 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:14:24 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:14:25 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:14:26 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:14:27 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:14:28 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:14:29 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:14:30 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:14:31 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:14:32 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:14:33 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:14:34 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:14:35 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:15:00 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:15:07 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:15:11 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:15:12 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:15:13 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:15:14 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:15:15 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:15:16 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:15:17 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:15:18 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:15:19 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:15:20 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:15:21 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:15:22 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:15:43 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:16:05 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:16:28 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:16:55 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:17:03 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:17:14 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:17:36 And I said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:18:02 And he said, "No, I want to see your torso."
00:18:31 When you made the Ramayana, what kind of dedication did you put into it as in not just the making
00:18:39 of the Ramayana but was there a lot of discipline being observed on the sets?
00:18:43 See unless you do samarpan, samarpan means you give yourself up completely.
00:18:53 No questions asked, no reason, you leave the ego, you leave the self.
00:18:59 Then only can a Ramayana which Papaji made be made.
00:19:04 And that was not only Papaji, everybody had to do that.
00:19:09 If you will notice when Papaji made Krishna, he didn't take Arun Gopal because that image
00:19:16 was of Ram.
00:19:17 So he had, as in a new boy who had only done Adi Shankaracharya.
00:19:24 So Ram, if you will do it with a star or something, then his image is fixed.
00:19:31 That is also a problem.
00:19:34 The characters of the texts, if they are pure, we started with Arun Gopal in Badal.
00:19:43 And from Badal we picked him up for Vikramaditya.
00:19:47 Vikramaditya to Ramayana.
00:19:49 So all, just dedication of Dara Singh, I would say his dedication was to what extent?
00:20:04 His makeup took 3-4 hours.
00:20:10 It was, you know the rubber had to be molded and galvanized and all that.
00:20:16 At that time there was no prosthetic.
00:20:19 So fixing his makeup, matching it and all that.
00:20:22 We are talking about 50 years ago.
00:20:24 We are speaking about 30-36 years ago.
00:20:28 At that time it was not there.
00:20:31 Then his tail.
00:20:33 Now if the tail is there, where will he sit?
00:20:38 It's easy to say.
00:20:40 He can sit on the chair with the tail.
00:20:43 There was a special stool made for him, in which there was a cut from behind.
00:20:47 He could sit on it.
00:20:49 You see, all the problems he had.
00:20:52 Once the mold was applied, where will he eat?
00:21:00 And he had done his makeup 3 hours before.
00:21:03 So for about 8-9 hours the man could not eat anything.
00:21:08 What was his dedication?
00:21:10 And Papaji's dedication was also amazing.
00:21:13 Because he worked like a madman.
00:21:16 If there was a scene at night, where the dialogue had changed,
00:21:21 he would get up at 3 o'clock and say, "Hey, wake everyone up.
00:21:25 Why? We have to shoot in an hour."
00:21:28 So the camera would be on at 4 o'clock.
00:21:31 It was a 24-7 process.
00:21:34 Because all of you stayed there at Umar's house.
00:21:36 There was no alternative.
00:21:39 You think it could be made without that?
00:21:42 It was not possible.
00:21:45 So all of you lived in Umargaon and you lived with the Ramayana 24/7.
00:21:52 It was more than lived with the Ramayana.
00:21:56 It was only Ramayana.
00:21:58 And all the time we were only with Ramayana and things like that.
00:22:03 And what miracles we used to have.
00:22:07 I remember that four buses came from Vijaywada.
00:22:12 Really?
00:22:14 Yes. We did not sleep for two days.
00:22:18 We took the kids to see the Ram.
00:22:20 60-80 people.
00:22:22 Oh my God.
00:22:23 But such a human angle.
00:22:25 We did not drink water.
00:22:27 The kids did not drink milk.
00:22:29 And we did not have a single room in Umargaon.
00:22:31 Where did we keep them?
00:22:33 We kept them outside the studio in the buses.
00:22:36 We organized the mattresses, food, water.
00:22:40 Ultimately that is also a human angle.
00:22:43 Of course.
00:22:44 And you would have busloads of people coming there.
00:22:47 Yes.
00:22:48 And VIPs.
00:22:50 Rajmata Sindhiya came.
00:22:52 Now that half an hour or one hour that went, we are working 24/7.
00:22:58 Right.
00:22:59 I don't have that one hour for a VIP.
00:23:02 That's correct.
00:23:04 It was a massive problem.
00:23:07 Time management, people management.
00:23:10 It's all to the production.
00:23:12 Right.
00:23:13 We had about 8-9 people, actors, who were paid monthly.
00:23:18 Okay.
00:23:19 They were not paid per role.
00:23:21 Okay.
00:23:22 Their get-up changed.
00:23:23 "Chal tu aaj Brahmin man jaa, chal tu aaj."
00:23:25 Okay.
00:23:26 Yeah.
00:23:27 Right.
00:23:28 So ek ek aadmi ne kuch 10-10 roles kiye which you never called.
00:23:31 Yes. Because you just changed the look so much.
00:23:33 You just changed the look.
00:23:34 The biggest problem was monkey army.
00:23:37 Bandar sehna.
00:23:38 Yes.
00:23:39 I would not say, sorry for the word bandar, vanar sehna.
00:23:42 You say vanar sehna.
00:23:44 Abhi sabzi aapko 500 vanar sehna chahiye, can you imagine how much time it would take to
00:23:51 do a makeup of theirs?
00:23:53 Yes.
00:23:54 It would take you 6 days to do a makeup.
00:23:56 So how did you manage that?
00:23:58 Secret.
00:23:59 Secret?
00:24:00 Batana man.
00:24:01 After 36 years?
00:24:03 Phir bhi kya hota hai, special effects jo hote na, I never like to discuss.
00:24:09 Because at that time you couldn't have this computerization where you can just multiply
00:24:13 and figure out.
00:24:14 No, no, no.
00:24:15 Bharati aisa nahi hai.
00:24:16 I am a special effects specialist also.
00:24:19 Right.
00:24:20 Special effects agar janta ko pata chal jaye na, they lose the impact of reality.
00:24:26 Correct.
00:24:27 It's like a magician if you know his trick, then the world will be…
00:24:30 Correct.
00:24:31 To batana nahi special effects, batana, you know usko batana bhi aur nahi bhi batana.
00:24:36 Abhi just to tell you, we used to call them goti bandar.
00:24:41 Ye marbles hoti hai na, goti.
00:24:44 We used to call them goti bandars.
00:24:47 Ye sukha hua nariyal leke na, usko centre se kaat ke, to we would make their mouthpiece.
00:24:52 Usko aada karte the, one foot.
00:24:55 Uske beech mein dhaga baante the, uske beech mein marbles lagate the.
00:24:59 To we could do.
00:25:01 Okay.
00:25:02 You know.
00:25:03 Aisa pakad leke tha, you don't need to do the action na.
00:25:06 Oh, right, right.
00:25:07 To chalo goti bandar, tayyar ho jao.
00:25:10 Ready sir, dota bandar ready, dita baana ready.
00:25:14 Okay.
00:25:15 So this was all practical production problems which you don't realise.
00:25:19 That's right.
00:25:20 You see.
00:25:21 Itne scenes karne, war scenes karne.
00:25:24 And imagine, 16 January 1987 ko humko okay mila.
00:25:31 And 26 Jan, 25 January was the release.
00:25:35 Tumko das din ki lead thi.
00:25:37 That's right.
00:25:38 Abhi das din ki lead mein aap ramayan kaise bana sakte hai?
00:25:42 Unless there was a divine intervention.
00:25:45 That's right.
00:25:46 Koi bimar nahi pada, koi.
00:25:48 And characters dhoondne.
00:25:50 Jise last day aa gaya, Sugreev mein mile.
00:25:55 Oho.
00:25:56 Abhi Sugreev ka character has to match Hanuman's character.
00:26:00 Yes.
00:26:01 And abhi second Dara Singh kaun se pehda ho?
00:26:04 Right.
00:26:05 Dara Singh ki jo chhati thi, jo look tha.
00:26:08 Abhi Sugreev has to match Dara Singh no?
00:26:12 Bhilkur.
00:26:13 Pure Hindustan mein kaun se Sugreev dhoonde hai hum?
00:26:16 Bahut dekhe, akhade dekhe yeh Shivaji Park mein, akhade udhar dekhe, bahut dekhe, Worli
00:26:22 mein.
00:26:23 Oh Sugreev, and shooting is on the head.
00:26:26 And every week it has to be released.
00:26:28 Right.
00:26:29 23 minutes have to be done that way.
00:26:31 You cannot say ki mereko Sugreev nahi mila, main ekata.
00:26:34 Correct, correct.
00:26:35 You can't, you have to not.
00:26:36 Public electricity, powerhouse ko aag lagate thesi, agar ramayan bandh hoti thi.
00:26:42 Chhodo by dropping it.
00:26:44 Agar power off ho jata hai, they would burn the electricity houses in Jammu and others.
00:26:50 That was the madness of ramayan.
00:26:53 Ramayan, yes.
00:26:54 You see.
00:26:55 Hum raat ko 2 ja 3 baje, Umargaon ki wo samundar aur surya ke bechme jungle hai.
00:27:01 Jungle mein ek sequence kar rahe the.
00:27:04 Light yeh thi, yeh tha, camera tha.
00:27:07 And thakhe, choor ho ke, you know, koi 3 baje ho gaye, raat ko pitch da.
00:27:12 Papa ji ne bola pack up.
00:27:14 Toh unhone lights off ki.
00:27:17 Suddenly humne dekha, horizon se ek jala giant kind of aadmi khara ho gaya.
00:27:24 Arey hum log, we were so frightened.
00:27:29 Ki kaun aa gaya, bhoot aa gaya, pret aa gaya, koi aatma aa gaya, koi upar se koi devta aa gaya.
00:27:35 Kya yeh hai kya?
00:27:37 And pin drop silence, 50-100 people are just looking.
00:27:42 And wo bhaag raha hai, jangla mein aamare teh.
00:27:45 It was a moment to remember.
00:27:48 And papa ji ke koi 10 feet door se usne ek chhalaag maari.
00:27:53 And papa ji ke charm pe gir gaya.
00:27:56 And papa ji ke pair pakad di.
00:27:58 Usne main light, main main lighten on kar di.
00:28:01 Toh he was a solid human being.
00:28:04 Toh papa ji ne bola, toh kaun hai bhai?
00:28:07 Kehte hai, main Sugreev hoon.
00:28:09 Oh my God! Complete stranger.
00:28:13 Kehte hai, tu Sugreev kaise hai?
00:28:15 Kehte hai, saath main Indore se hoon, main pehlwan hoon, main Ramayan dekha hoon.
00:28:20 Toh mujhe laga, I have to play Sugreev.
00:28:22 Toh main Sugreev banke aagaya.
00:28:24 This is not a short of a...
00:28:27 My God, this is a miracle.
00:28:29 Miracle. Toh boli, tu dialogue bol sakta hai.
00:28:31 Kehte hai, akhade mein hum log gaaliye mile dete hai, you know.
00:28:35 Teri toh yeh.
00:28:36 Kehte hai, tu aise hi bol.
00:28:38 We had to put that mask with him.
00:28:40 And the entire dialogues have to be dubbed.
00:28:43 Ravan se baat kar raha hai ki, Ravan tu kya samajhta hai.
00:28:48 They are all, you know, the language of the...
00:28:50 Of the akhada.
00:28:52 Akhada. He is speaking and he is enjoying.
00:28:54 Okay.
00:28:56 And Sushen Vaid.
00:28:58 Yes?
00:29:00 Sushen Vaid.
00:29:02 You know, after serial...
00:29:04 Yeh wo paan wala tha, Indore mein.
00:29:06 Oh, okay.
00:29:08 Used to sell paans.
00:29:10 Uske baad uski paan ki dukaan became a legend.
00:29:13 Ki iska paan khayenge toh hum bimaadi theek ho jayegi.
00:29:17 Acha.
00:29:18 Tu acha, because of Sugreev.
00:29:20 Because he is Sushen the doctor.
00:29:23 Doctor.
00:29:24 Vaid.
00:29:26 He was Ravan's Vaid.
00:29:28 Tell me little bit about Ravan.
00:29:31 And your Ravan was just perfect.
00:29:34 Arvind Trivedi?
00:29:36 Yeah, we picked up Arvind Trivedi.
00:29:39 We have a long history with him.
00:29:41 We were making a Gujarati film, Veer Mangala Walu.
00:29:45 With his brother.
00:29:47 What was his brother? He was a big star.
00:29:52 He was like Amitabh Bachchan of Gujarati films.
00:29:55 And we gave Arvind.
00:29:57 Then I picked him up for the first film as a director I did.
00:30:01 I made him Hema Malini's father.
00:30:04 In Hum Tere Aashiqui Hai.
00:30:07 Then I picked him up for Vikram Bita.
00:30:13 And there I realized, I didn't have to tell him
00:30:17 ki kaunsa mantra se tantrik yogi ka mantra usse karna hai.
00:30:25 Om Aindey Nishiniklinglinglinglingidraaksh.
00:30:28 Namaha.
00:30:29 So he knew the mantras and everything.
00:30:32 And I realized this man in depth is much more than what appears as an actor.
00:30:40 He has total Vedantic knowledge.
00:30:45 You know he knew the stuti of Ravan by heart.
00:30:51 Really?
00:30:52 Yes.
00:30:53 Ek rehearsal nahi ke.
00:30:55 We recorded it.
00:30:57 Because it was written by Ravan himself.
00:31:00 But we didn't have to tell him.
00:31:03 Dada radi dada dada dada dada dada dada.
00:31:07 He knew it by heart.
00:31:10 That was Ravan.
00:31:12 And that action of his.
00:31:15 You know.
00:31:17 And the way he walked.
00:31:19 The way he carried himself.
00:31:21 Because Ravan was not some villain in a den.
00:31:25 No Ravan was a highly intellectual man.
00:31:29 Knowledge.
00:31:30 Balke I don't know how many people know that.
00:31:34 Or maybe it is a dant kathay.
00:31:37 Maybe it is real.
00:31:39 Jab Ram udhar paunche unhone Shiv Bhagwan ki pooja karni thi.
00:31:43 To unhone Shivling banaya.
00:31:45 Hai na?
00:31:46 To isliye Ram Ishwar.
00:31:48 Hai na?
00:31:49 To Vishnu Bhagwan ka avtaar hai.
00:31:55 Uska purveet kaun ho sakta hai?
00:31:58 See the problem is as a maker.
00:32:01 As a sensitive maker and as a very deep kind of a thinker maker.
00:32:06 Abhi Ram ka purveet kaun hoyega?
00:32:09 That is where Ravan.
00:32:12 Ravan comes.
00:32:13 Yes.
00:32:14 Because nau gray ko control karta hai.
00:32:17 Shani ko paed mein rakhta hai.
00:32:19 And Shiv Bhagwan ka bhakt itna hai ki pura Kailash utha leta hai.
00:32:25 Yes.
00:32:26 To he was a different.
00:32:28 And koi dhanav thora hi tha.
00:32:30 To rishi putra tha.
00:32:31 No.
00:32:32 Uski mata bhi dakshini thi.
00:32:36 To Ravan one of the biggest scholars.
00:32:40 Yes.
00:32:41 Pure ved unko yaad the.
00:32:43 So the Ramayan is you know everybody is talking about how Ramanand Sagar and your Ramayan
00:32:51 is continues to be the ultimate.
00:32:54 I had asked once Papaji in his very those moments when he would reveal his inner thought.
00:33:05 His soul level thought.
00:33:07 Ramayan had become a big hit.
00:33:10 And it has become already a.
00:33:13 I asked him Papaji ye Ramayan kab tak chale gaye?
00:33:17 Called me and said, "Prem yeh 50 saal tak iska replacement nahi ho sakta hai."
00:33:25 He had that vision.
00:33:27 For 50 years nobody will be able to repeat.
00:33:32 So jab Corona ke baad firse jab isne world record kiya.
00:33:36 I remembered Papaji how much.
00:33:39 I said my God what a foresight he had.
00:33:43 What a vision he had.
00:33:46 And he was made and born to be.
00:33:48 You know when he was born in Nehruwala Chandramouli.
00:33:51 Really?
00:33:52 Shiv Bhagwan ka naam.
00:33:54 And Shiv ne pehle rakshna ki.
00:33:56 Naam sanskaran mein Ramanand ho.
00:33:58 And jab pehli baar Mumbai me aaye unhone kabhi samundar nahi dekhaata.
00:34:03 Varun Devta ke darshan nahi kiye the.
00:34:06 Just imagine somebody who has never seen the sea.
00:34:11 And see such a mass of water.
00:34:14 Aapne lake dekha hai, aapne nadi dekhi hai.
00:34:18 But to see the sea.
00:34:20 It's a killer in your mind you know.
00:34:26 That is when he decided.
00:34:28 And you know with a little hesitancy he went to Charni Road.
00:34:33 And Charni Road ki queen necklace hai na.
00:34:36 Uma Fatwal ke saath mein.
00:34:38 He stood there and he prayed to Varun Devta ki yeh Kuber nagri mein accept me.
00:34:44 I have come to this new city.
00:34:46 Please give me a place to stay.
00:34:49 Which is Mumbai.
00:34:50 Mumbai has never refused anybody.
00:34:52 Always given it a place.
00:34:53 Ek tidal wave aaye.
00:34:56 Poori Belpuri stalls cross krte main road tak aaye.
00:35:01 Mene aaj tak nahi dekha hai.
00:35:03 In my 80 years of Mumbai.
00:35:05 And zoom krte hui.
00:35:08 He said my name will be Ram Anand Sagar.
00:35:13 Before that he was Ram Anand Bedi.
00:35:16 Because his mother's side was Bedi.
00:35:20 Then he was Ram Anand Kashmiri.
00:35:22 Because he was Kashmiri.
00:35:24 His forefathers were from Kashmir.
00:35:26 1830 se.
00:35:28 And they were Chopra's.
00:35:29 He was Ram Anand Chopra.
00:35:32 His great great grandfather Lala Shankar Das was the Nagar Seth.
00:35:37 During Gulab Singh's time.
00:35:40 Gulab Singh is the first king, Sikh king who took, who bought Kashmir from the Britishers.
00:35:49 You see.
00:35:50 75,000 Nana Shahi.
00:35:56 The coins.
00:35:58 You know.
00:35:59 So from that, Nagar Seth was the richest man.
00:36:03 So he came from that kind of a backdrop.
00:36:05 And you feel he was born and placed on this earth to make the Ramayana.
00:36:12 To rewrite the Ramayana.
00:36:13 I don't feel it's a fact.
00:36:16 If you join all the Kaddis.
00:36:18 While I was living and while we were together.
00:36:21 It may not have occurred to me.
00:36:24 But now seeing the effects.
00:36:27 Because I can't think of any serial or any movie.
00:36:31 Which records after 33 years.
00:36:34 It cannot be.
00:36:37 His hard disk never used to finish.
00:36:40 29 films he wrote.
00:36:43 16 he produced and made them into hit.
00:36:46 After that 2000 hours of television software.
00:36:51 You think it is possible for a human disk to do that?
00:36:55 So his disk, his megabytes were totally different.
00:37:00 Tetrabytes.
00:37:01 Yeah, tetrabytes.
00:37:02 And to make Ramayana, to get 65, 650 million viewership.
00:37:09 Is it possible by a human being?
00:37:12 And then after 33 years to get another 70.
00:37:16 So he was sent to this Dharti.
00:37:20 And he faced a lot of hardships.
00:37:24 All the characters of Ramayana.
00:37:26 Whether it was Kakai or Mantra.
00:37:29 He had a stepmother who used to beat him.
00:37:34 And you know on all that kind of stories.
00:37:37 His mother died of drug addiction at the age of 26.
00:37:40 When he was just 5 years old.
00:37:43 And he has gone through a lot of selling shows.
00:37:47 Cleaning trucks, becoming a peon, clerk.
00:37:50 He has seen every aspect of Ramayana character in his own life.
00:37:57 Because he had to portray them.
00:37:59 Some villain, some good, some sacrifice.
00:38:02 Some giver, some Bharat, some Lakshman, some Kakai, some what is it to be a mother.
00:38:12 So like a person has to do a PhD.
00:38:16 So he was sent, he was made to struggle, he was made to face all these kinds of things.
00:38:31 So that he could put those characters in real life.
00:38:35 Then he was a journalist.
00:38:37 At the age of 16 he wrote his first story.
00:38:40 In Pratap College magazine, Pritam Pratiksha.
00:38:46 Which has shades of Krishna and Uddhav.
00:38:53 It's Uddhav and Krishna's story at the age of 16.
00:38:57 And the editor said this is not yours.
00:39:00 He said no it is mine.
00:39:02 They had a fight.
00:39:03 Then finally the editor wrote, I am not responsible for the originality.
00:39:07 At the age of 16.
00:39:09 And in 1950 he made a big flop film, '51, 'Meman'.
00:39:16 Usme there was a song, "Bina do Sita Mata ko diya Ramne ghar se nikaal."
00:39:23 The one one.
00:39:25 Prit Dhawan song.
00:39:26 Now that beat was there.
00:39:28 Of making a romance.
00:39:30 In one of his short stories where the lady, the heroine is washed away in Ravi River to
00:39:38 the Pakistan side.
00:39:40 And when she comes the father refuses to accept.
00:39:43 Was Sita not being accepted and Sita Pariksha.
00:39:48 Agni Pariksha.
00:39:50 So everything in his life he experienced.
00:39:55 And then he was shown how to make mass media communication.
00:39:59 He made super hit films.
00:40:01 Because Ramayana had to have such a viewership.
00:40:04 It had to go to mankind.
00:40:06 It had to go to the universe.
00:40:08 So it was all a learning process.
00:40:11 Chandramouli, Ramanand, Ramanand Sagar, Leela, Ram Leela.
00:40:18 So how do you attribute that?
00:40:22 How do you explain this?
00:40:24 And similarly in his life he met a lot of people, saints, tantrics, big big.
00:40:34 Like in 1942 when he got TB, our Kul Purohit, Nityanandji, he was a tantric.
00:40:41 I have experienced his tantric power personally.
00:40:45 And he told him looking at his kundali, oh in 80, somewhere in 80s, he will make Ramayana.
00:40:54 When he was 25.
00:40:56 Meaning Ramanand Sagarji was 25 years old when it was predicted that he will make Ramayana in 80s.
00:41:05 Yes.
00:41:06 He had got TB.
00:41:08 He was given up for dead.
00:41:11 You see.
00:41:12 He was sent to Tangmar Sanatorium.
00:41:16 It was a one way street.
00:41:20 Actually all that Papaji lived, he learned in the TB sanatorium.
00:41:27 He learned the philosophy of Sakshi Bhav, witness living.
00:41:34 Karta hote bhi darta ho na, darta hote bhi karta ho na.
00:41:39 You are a witness and you are living, you are living and you are a witness.
00:41:43 It is witness living.
00:41:45 That was his whole life.
00:41:47 He lived like that.
00:41:50 That's my thinking.
00:41:52 Being with him, you know, Sakshi Bhav.
00:41:56 Now there he was given up for dead.
00:41:59 Sanatorium was a one way street.
00:42:01 There was no cure.
00:42:02 Log aate the, unka hota tha, aaj lottery daalo, aaj kal kaun merega.
00:42:08 So one dead body would go and the next day they would, then they would celebrate.
00:42:13 And neither he gaya dekh gaya, ho gaya ho gaya, kal gaya.
00:42:17 So, and he, you know, he was in Sanatorium.
00:42:21 And there he started writing a column.
00:42:25 He said, "I am dying theek hai, let me leave something ki how to live."
00:42:32 So, there was a magazine called Adave Mushrik in Lahore.
00:42:40 And that time Lahore had all the intellectual giants, you know, like, like Krishan Chander,
00:42:47 Monto, Faiz Ahmed, Faiz, hai na?
00:42:51 And all these kind of literary giants, Rajinder Singh Dedi.
00:42:56 And he started writing this column.
00:42:58 And started sending it to the editor, unknown guy.
00:43:03 The editor, even he read the first, you know, the clip which he sent.
00:43:10 He said, "A dying man is showing how to live."
00:43:14 Look at the irony.
00:43:16 Irony.
00:43:17 I would say paradox.
00:43:19 River chalta hai toh kya sound karta hai, what is life?
00:43:24 Badal aata hai toh kya hai?
00:43:26 Jo mruti hoti hai, kya mruti hoti hai?
00:43:28 You know, he is defining philosophy through death and witness living.
00:43:34 And that column became a super hit.
00:43:37 And unknown to Papaji, in the literary world, he had become a star.
00:43:40 And he is there in the sanatorium.
00:43:42 And he is dying there.
00:43:44 You know, so he didn't know that this has happened to him.
00:43:50 There was one man next to his room.
00:43:53 Wo room mein doon hai, do do ja teen teen aadmi hai the the.
00:43:58 Toh he was given up for dead.
00:43:59 It was only how many days more he will live.
00:44:02 Because of that he said, "chalo aur cheezein try karte hai, jaise homeopathy try karte hai, yeh karte hai."
00:44:07 So there was a vaid in Tangmarg.
00:44:10 So he went to this vaid.
00:44:13 And that vaid knew he is going to die.
00:44:15 So the vaid used to bully him.
00:44:17 "Shakkar peeske de deni, dal chini de deni."
00:44:21 And just to make him psychologically feel, "Oh I have taken the medicine."
00:44:26 And that guy became alright.
00:44:29 That vaid got a shock.
00:44:32 He says, "How did?"
00:44:34 He says, "I don't know, you give me medicine, I become alright."
00:44:37 "I am living in sanatorium, they are giving me a pinchet."
00:44:40 He says, "Hold on. Tell me what you do the whole day."
00:44:45 So karte karte pata chala, he was so fed up with life,
00:44:50 there was a sugarcane field, there was a parapet wall.
00:44:54 He used to go and sit there, he used to pluck the sugarcane, eat the sugarcane,
00:44:59 and sing a song written by Kedar Sharma, you know, sung by KL Sehgal.
00:45:05 "Dukh ke din ab beetat nahi, na koi tera na koi mera, hai charo aur andhera."
00:45:14 So vaid said, "Take me there."
00:45:17 And he sat on the same place, he plucked the sugarcane fully from the roots,
00:45:25 and there he found a 12 foot long black cobra dead.
00:45:30 So it was the cobra poison which was coming through the sugarcane,
00:45:34 and this guy got cured.
00:45:37 And there is a possibility that Papaji got cured because of something like that.
00:45:44 That I am not able to... but he told me this story, so this, you know.
00:45:50 So he got cured.
00:45:52 And he was coming down the Tangmarg,
00:45:55 Tangmarg 6000 feet pe, nichi aana padta hai, 4000 feet pe.
00:46:00 And saamne se goda aa raha tha, he was on a horse.
00:46:04 They both stopped, they both looked at each other,
00:46:07 they both got down, they came face to face,
00:46:11 and that stranger on the other side, he says, "Ramanand?"
00:46:16 Papaji got a shock of his life.
00:46:18 He looked at him, he says, "Krishnachandar?"
00:46:21 He says, "Yes."
00:46:23 He couldn't believe that Krishnachandar is in front of me, such a big writer,
00:46:28 and I am an unknown guy.
00:46:30 So Krishnachandar and he became great friends.
00:46:33 Then he took him to Shalimar in Pune, then he brought him to Bombay,
00:46:37 and he respected Krishnachandar right up to the last.
00:46:40 Even in Hamrai, Krishnachandar wrote the screenplay dialogue.
00:46:44 He never forgot his friends and people who, you know.
00:46:47 So he became alright.
00:46:49 And that column, Maut ke Bistar se, became a big hit column.
00:46:54 You were talking about a prediction that was made when he was at the sanatorium.
00:46:58 Correct. That is what I am trying to tell you.
00:47:00 After he came back, my grandfather, Lala Dhinanath,
00:47:07 he was concerned and worried, so he brought the Kulpurvayat.
00:47:12 Now, Kulpurvayat, Nityanandji was also a Tantrik.
00:47:17 I will just tell you a personal incident between me and Nityanandji.
00:47:22 Me and Anand were there, and you know how kids are,
00:47:27 they want to do the oddest thing, no?
00:47:30 So he says, "Baccha hai log, kya khaoge?"
00:47:33 So Anand looked at me and said, "Aadu khayenge."
00:47:38 Now in Bombay, how do you get an aadu?
00:47:42 You understand by aadu, no?
00:47:44 Aadu is a pear kind of a fruit.
00:47:49 In Kashmir, you get it, it is yellow in colour.
00:47:54 So I said, "Aadu khayenge."
00:47:57 You know, just to see ki yeh both samaste hai na,
00:48:03 you know Bharti, he did like this, and there was an aadu in his hand.
00:48:08 In Bhartiya building, in a 12 foot by 12 foot room,
00:48:13 where we five brothers used to stay,
00:48:16 he said, "Yeh lo bachche aadu khao."
00:48:19 That was his power.
00:48:22 Once, when Papa ji was in very deep financial problems,
00:48:28 he had come home, another miracle.
00:48:32 So he says, "Nityanand ji kuch problems hai, kuch chamatkar dikhao na."
00:48:40 He used to call him Ramanand.
00:48:43 "Ramanand, tu likh tera sawal."
00:48:47 So Papa ji took a piece of paper and wrote something,
00:48:50 "Kuch ko band kar, table kar rakh de."
00:48:53 He kept the glass on the table.
00:48:55 After a little time, he said, "Pick up the glass,"
00:48:58 and the answer was written.
00:49:01 This is not make-believe.
00:49:04 I'm sorry, people may think it's a myth.
00:49:07 No, this is seen.
00:49:09 So I am not going to budge from what I have seen.
00:49:13 So Nityanand ji was of that level.
00:49:15 And he had predicted that.
00:49:17 After he came back from TV, my grandfather brought him.
00:49:21 "Ki is ladke ka dekho future kya hai, mar jayega, jiyega, kya hoga iska?"
00:49:27 And he laughed at him.
00:49:29 He said, "In the 80s, he will make Ramayana,
00:49:32 and he will become an international figure."
00:49:34 "Kis baat ki fikar hai, why are you worried?"
00:49:38 Then you remember Moula sahib, yeh dasnambari ka pita?
00:49:44 He was an astrologer.
00:49:47 Madan Moula's father.
00:49:50 Rajagopal was totally bugged by astrology.
00:49:55 He wouldn't move without Moula sahib's doing.
00:49:59 Without this astrological guidance.
00:50:02 He was very close to Moula sahib.
00:50:04 He used to tell him, "Yeh kar, wo kar, yeh actor le, yeh kar."
00:50:08 Apni industry mein yeh sabh hota hai because of the uncertainty.
00:50:12 Toh Moula sahib ne Papa ji ke se bhi bahut karib the.
00:50:15 And Papa ji also respected him a lot.
00:50:19 Because unmein vidya the.
00:50:21 There is no doubt about it.
00:50:23 Even right now I know a fellow comes from south.
00:50:28 Again this is not a myth.
00:50:30 He has Kanprasht Vidhi.
00:50:33 Just going off the track.
00:50:36 His name is Kishore Pandit.
00:50:38 He comes to meet me.
00:50:39 Just sitting there.
00:50:41 They come and tell in his ear.
00:50:43 Everything.
00:50:45 Ki mere jeevne 10 rupee ka note hai.
00:50:47 Uska yeh number hai, he'll tell you.
00:50:49 Wow.
00:50:50 Matlab these things exist.
00:50:52 Aisa nahi hai ki these are.
00:50:54 So Moula sahib had also.
00:50:56 So Moula sahib saw Papa ji's kundli and he realized ki Ramanand Sagar will make a spiritual,
00:51:03 some kind of a mass media.
00:51:06 Which will create havoc in the whole world.
00:51:09 But he didn't know which one.
00:51:13 So he started Yogeshwar Krishna.
00:51:17 With Shashi Kapoor as Krishna.
00:51:22 And you know, and Raj Kapoor came.
00:51:25 LK Advani came to give the clap.
00:51:28 In Matlab studio.
00:51:30 I was there.
00:51:31 I was there.
00:51:32 Moula sahib and he predicted ki in 80s he will make something on Hindu spiritualism.
00:51:41 Which will create a sensation around the world.
00:51:44 The only mistake he made was he said he'll make Krishna and not Ramayana.
00:51:49 Calculation mein kahin pe.
00:51:52 In 1980, I'm sorry, 1970 Bharti, you won't believe.
00:51:58 Papa ji gave me my first break in Lalkar as a director of photography.
00:52:05 I got the gold medal and silver medal.
00:52:08 And Satyajit Ray told him ki if you don't pick him up I'll take you in Berlin.
00:52:13 So he was forced to give his son.
00:52:15 Otherwise he was a very rigid, strict, you know, yeah.
00:52:21 As a father he was rather very strict ki nahi.
00:52:24 You have to start from zero, work it up.
00:52:26 And then if you deserve you'll get.
00:52:28 But I don't know, he gave me Lalkar at the age of 27.
00:52:32 Which was hardly anything.
00:52:34 To be a DOP at 27.
00:52:38 And I was very touchy.
00:52:40 It involved this northeast region story.
00:52:45 So udhar north light hoti hai.
00:52:48 And wo Naga lands mein unke ghar kaise hoti hai.
00:52:51 So even Papa ji wanted to see the location.
00:52:54 So we both decided chalo jalte hain.
00:52:56 I had said I'll see my lighting.
00:52:58 I'll create special lights for Lalkar.
00:53:00 Which will give that bounce lighting feeling.
00:53:03 You know I created bounce lights and things like that.
00:53:06 To udhar gaye to hamara distributor tha Shankarlal Goenka.
00:53:12 He owned all these theatres in Shillong and Guwahati.
00:53:16 To humko Kamaksha Devi le gaye.
00:53:18 Humne pooja bhi ja ki.
00:53:20 Bhara ananda hai.
00:53:22 By itself Kamaksha.
00:53:24 I made some beautiful photographs.
00:53:26 Of that I still have that.
00:53:28 Suddenly ek ladki peechhe se hai.
00:53:31 And she tapped me and she says.
00:53:33 Ek sadhu baba hai wo aapko milna chahta hai.
00:53:36 So I went to Papa ji.
00:53:38 Papa ji yeh keh rahe hai.
00:53:41 To Papa ji said chalte hain.
00:53:43 And we started walking.
00:53:44 We looked back that girl disappeared.
00:53:46 Normal laga tha.
00:53:48 He might have got lost in the crowd.
00:53:50 Hum gaye we faced the sadhu.
00:53:54 He had a very unusual piercing eyes.
00:53:59 And he was different.
00:54:03 He was not normal.
00:54:06 Kept looking at Papa ji.
00:54:08 Kept looking at Papa ji as if he is sending some kind of waves.
00:54:12 He is sending some kind of spiritual cleansing.
00:54:15 Or changing his mindset.
00:54:18 This is my interpretation after what all has happened.
00:54:22 And Papa ji kept looking.
00:54:24 He says baba koi seva hai.
00:54:26 Not speaking.
00:54:28 Koi some message for me.
00:54:30 Not speaking.
00:54:32 And we left.
00:54:33 I looked normal.
00:54:34 I looked normal.
00:54:35 And we forgot about it.
00:54:37 This is 1970.
00:54:39 Now we cut to 1983, 84 or 85.
00:54:45 After about 10-15 years.
00:54:48 Papa ji wanted to make a small film called Kohinoor with newcomers.
00:54:53 So with camera and junior artist and actor, new actor.
00:54:57 We went to Haridwar.
00:54:58 We parked ourselves there.
00:55:00 And we were shooting around Rishikesh and things like that.
00:55:04 And it started raining and thundering and big storm.
00:55:08 And we were on the banks of the Ganga.
00:55:11 And these lady actors, they were shivering.
00:55:15 So didn't know what to do.
00:55:17 There was nothing.
00:55:18 No house.
00:55:19 Nothing.
00:55:20 So Papa ji looked down next to the Ganga Maiya river.
00:55:23 Next to Ganga Maiya.
00:55:24 Ek sadhu ki jhumpdi thi.
00:55:26 Nihap ek havan chal raha tha Agni Dev.
00:55:29 So Papa ji just felt.
00:55:31 He called his assistant yogi.
00:55:33 He says go and just request sadhu baba.
00:55:36 Kuch der ke liye pana de de.
00:55:38 Once the rain goes away, we'll go away.
00:55:41 So yogi went there.
00:55:43 And he says sir hum film mannaya rahe hain.
00:55:45 Humare saath kuch striyan hain.
00:55:47 Aapke barsaat ho rahi hai.
00:55:49 He got so angry.
00:55:52 He says film mannaya rahe ho.
00:55:54 Nikal jo idhar se.
00:55:56 Took a little bit of ash.
00:55:58 Basam kar dunga tere ko.
00:56:00 That yogi to.
00:56:03 He almost fainted.
00:56:04 He ran.
00:56:06 And he was tantric.
00:56:08 And as yogi was running up.
00:56:10 Because it was about 8-10 feet down.
00:56:13 Slope you know.
00:56:15 And he was wondering we were here.
00:56:17 So he asked him.
00:56:18 Uska naam kya hai?
00:56:20 So yogi bhi bhaagta ho.
00:56:22 Wala hai Ramanand Sagar.
00:56:24 That yogi totally changed.
00:56:27 He says Ramanand Sagar.
00:56:30 Oh mayya mujhe maaf kar to.
00:56:32 Mir se galti ho gaya.
00:56:34 Unko aadhar se leke aao.
00:56:36 The whole tone changed.
00:56:39 The whole thinking changed.
00:56:41 And we went down there.
00:56:43 He is looking at papa ji like that.
00:56:45 Like you know maabal aayi.
00:56:47 And he went outside.
00:56:48 O patte tode unhone.
00:56:50 Aisa kiya.
00:56:51 Gharam paani to dala.
00:56:52 Humko pilaya.
00:56:53 We started sweating.
00:56:55 That little drink of which he had made.
00:56:57 Garmi.
00:56:59 Garmi matlab.
00:57:00 Barsaat waghara sab bol gaye.
00:57:02 Phal le aaya apne.
00:57:04 Jo jne bhiksha mein liye the.
00:57:06 Papa ji ko de.
00:57:07 Tum kao.
00:57:08 Tumko do.
00:57:09 Tum Ramanand Sagar hai na.
00:57:10 Tum Ramanand Sagar hai na.
00:57:11 Baba ji also.
00:57:12 We were all baffled.
00:57:13 You know at that time.
00:57:15 We were all baffled.
00:57:17 Papa ji ne kahne hai baba.
00:57:18 Because you can take bhiksha only once.
00:57:20 If you eat his fruit then he will remain angry.
00:57:23 So papa ji was aware of that.
00:57:25 Baba ji aapki bhiksha hai.
00:57:27 Main nahi le sakta.
00:57:28 Main nahi gharan kar sakta.
00:57:30 And he asked him ki.
00:57:33 What is it?
00:57:35 That suddenly you.
00:57:38 He said I am a film maker.
00:57:40 I make normal films.
00:57:42 So then he told us.
00:57:45 That in 1970 you had gone to Guwahati.
00:57:49 You went to Kamakhya.
00:57:51 Girl came there.
00:57:54 You met a sadhu.
00:57:56 He said that was Maha Avatar Baba ji.
00:57:58 Maha Avatar Baba ji lives between Badrinath and Kedarnath.
00:58:04 He is 500 years old.
00:58:06 There is a bubble.
00:58:08 And once you go inside that bubble you don't age.
00:58:11 So har har shyaam ko Badrinath ki aarti ke liye aate phir chale jaate.
00:58:17 And Yoganand's biography of a yogi has been mentioned.
00:58:21 He can be at two places at the same time and all that you know.
00:58:25 Toh darshan tab dete hai jab somebody has to do some.
00:58:30 Maha.
00:58:32 Is tarah ka kaam which will change society or which will change you know.
00:58:36 So then he gives darshan.
00:58:39 Baba ji is to lay.
00:58:41 He says par mirko karna kya hai?
00:58:43 Kehte hai woh toh Baba ji bata sakte.
00:58:45 That I can't tell you.
00:58:47 Baba ji milenge kahan?
00:58:49 Kehte hai woh Badrinath Narayan temple hai.
00:58:51 Udhar jab pooja hoti hai toh aate hai.
00:58:53 After sometime we went to Badrinath.
00:58:55 After 3-4 months we went to Badrinath Narayan.
00:58:57 And prasad leke baar nikal rahe hai.
00:58:59 Prasad gir gaya toh ek aadmi nahi aake haath se pagda.
00:59:04 And prasad kha gaya.
00:59:06 And Baba ji ko dekhta raha hai.
00:59:08 And smiled karke le.
00:59:10 So didn't know.
00:59:12 Sore dekh baar nikle the Ram Baba mil gaya.
00:59:15 Bole Ramanand?
00:59:17 Bole haan.
00:59:19 His name was also Ram Baba.
00:59:21 Maavatar Baba ji the tumko darshan deke gaye.
00:59:23 Achha.
00:59:25 Because unhone mere paal message chhoda hai.
00:59:29 Tumko Ramayan banani hai ye film film chhod do.
00:59:32 And TV mein jaa.
00:59:34 Okay.
00:59:36 Now how do you explain this?
00:59:38 So you, your dad and the Ramayan you made was ordained?
00:59:43 Absolutely.
00:59:45 I have no doubt about it.
00:59:48 You said second opinion.
00:59:50 The very fact I have put it in my book.
00:59:53 His biography.
00:59:55 I wouldn't do that.
00:59:58 If this were not facts.
01:00:01 So that is why the Ramayan that is associated with Ramanand Sagar
01:00:07 is at a level by itself.
01:00:10 Spiritual level.
01:00:11 It's on a spiritual level by itself.
01:00:13 No comparison with anything.
01:00:15 I remember at times, ek din shooting mein
01:00:18 dialogues didn't come.
01:00:20 Went to him.
01:00:22 Kya toh main kya karoon.
01:00:24 Aayi nahi raha hai.
01:00:26 Like writer's block.
01:00:28 Toh kya karenge.
01:00:30 Hanuman ji aake mujhe bataayenge.
01:00:32 And the dialogue came.
01:00:34 Hanuman ji ne aake mujhe bataaya.
01:00:36 He had that kind of belief.
01:00:39 Belief and some connection.
01:00:42 Ek Karnataka circle se murti liya hai Hanuman ki.
01:00:45 Outside the temple.
01:00:48 Library mein rakhte the.
01:00:50 Pushte the.
01:00:51 Ki main boli hai.
01:00:52 Abhi tu bata.
01:00:53 He would get his dialogue.
01:00:54 Things like that.
01:00:56 Toh he was sent here to make Ramayan.
01:01:01 To bring the lost tenements of Sanatan back.
01:01:05 To today's youth.
01:01:07 And to change the sanskriti of Jeevs in Bharat.
01:01:15 And bring Sanatan back.
01:01:17 And that is why it stays unparalleled.
01:01:20 It will never have.
01:01:22 The other day somebody asked me,
01:01:24 will you make a Ramayan?
01:01:25 What will you make?
01:01:26 I said, I'm sorry boss.
01:01:28 I will never make this Ramayan.
01:01:30 It's a classic of a different level.
01:01:32 Can Mona Lisa Di read and can Raja Ravi Varma read?
01:01:36 Not possible.
01:01:38 Thank you so much Prem.
01:01:40 Jai Shri Ram Bharat.
01:01:41 Lovely talking to you.
01:01:43 Jai Shri Ram to your viewers.
01:01:45 Thank you.
01:01:48 (Music)