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00:21 Today's show, I'm joined by Patrick Ippino from the Oakland Warriors Podcast.
00:26 Patrick covers the Warriors, he's part of the Fans First Sports Podcast Group family
00:30 as well.
00:31 Patrick, I know it's early over there on the West Coast, but
00:33 thank you for joining me.
00:34 >> Thanks for having me, man.
00:37 I'm looking forward to talking how to divvy up this Warriors team.
00:41 >> [LAUGH] Well, I mean, just talk a little bit about that.
00:44 It's been quite a season so far.
00:47 It seems like there's a report every day so far that I think Sham's just said the
00:50 other day that everybody is available apart from Steph.
00:53 There are constant reports about Draymond Green potentially being moved,
00:57 Andrew Wiggers potentially being moved, Moses Modi, Jonathan Kamingrasking out.
01:02 What a whirlwind of a season you've had, it's only just January.
01:05 >> Yeah, and last season was such a lost season after the Draymond punching of
01:12 Poole, and they kind of gaslit the fan base saying, it's not a big deal.
01:17 But then at the end of the season after they got eliminated,
01:19 they all talked about, Steve Kerr talked about how, yeah,
01:22 it was a big deal, and the chemistry was blown.
01:26 But this season we thought it was gonna be way better.
01:29 They started off six and two, and they had the quote unquote best
01:35 starting lineup net rating the last two seasons, and
01:38 they just needed to shore up the bench.
01:39 But then all of a sudden that starting lineup was not the same.
01:43 Everybody except for Steph kind of fell off.
01:46 Looney, Clay, Wiggins fell off, and then Draymond has been suspended for
01:50 like 19 games, so he kind of abandoned the team.
01:53 And now they've had a couple injuries with Gary Payton II and Chris Paul.
01:59 So they're a little strapped for guys, and it's all just gone downhill.
02:05 Jonathan Kaminga, who I really like, and
02:10 I wanted him to get more playing time last season over Anthony Lamb.
02:15 But- >> I mean, that's understandable.
02:17 [LAUGH]
02:19 >> Same with Moses Moody, he didn't play at all.
02:22 That dude played in the Western Conference finals in 2022, and
02:26 then pretty much couldn't crack the rotation last season.
02:30 And then in the playoffs, he plays over Lamb and Kaminga, which is just odd.
02:35 So I think there's a lot of frustration with the Warriors, and
02:38 right now it just seems like after two big blowouts,
02:40 they got booed at home two games in a row, and they deserved it.
02:46 It's the first time people said they've gotten booed during this Steph Curry
02:50 dynasty era, at least the championship era.
02:52 And I don't blame them for wanting to make moves.
02:56 I've had my opinions on who they should move and who I wanna keep.
03:00 But right now, it's like, you just throw your hands up, like, okay,
03:04 Mike Dunleavy, he made moves over the summer, let's see what you got.
03:08 He has little equity with the fan base, at least with people like me, and
03:13 I wanna see what happens.
03:15 Now, you mentioned a few guys.
03:19 I still don't think Steph would ever let Klay or
03:23 Draymond get traded without them wanting to leave.
03:27 And who knows where it's at right now,
03:29 because I think they wanna see what they got with Draymond.
03:32 But let's face facts, Draymond Green, as much as I've appreciated him, and
03:37 he's been kind of our lovable underdog for a long time, [LAUGH] you're counting on
03:42 the guy who blew up the chemistry to come back and rescue the team.
03:45 So it's a little ironic.
03:46 >> Not quite so lovable anymore, just an underdog, right?
03:49 >> [LAUGH] Yeah, I mean, kind of a front runner, actually.
03:52 But it's kind of ironic, and you're messing with the basketball gods,
03:58 if you believe in such things, and you're tempting fate.
04:01 So that's where we stand right now.
04:05 >> Yeah, and obviously, what do you think the Warriors are trying to achieve?
04:10 By saying everyone is available, putting that out there,
04:13 fire Shams, whether that's, you imagine that comes from some of the Warriors.
04:18 We're talking about a retool here, right?
04:20 We're talking about still trying to compete, still trying to build around Steph.
04:24 We're not talking about a rebuild, just to confirm that, correct?
04:28 >> Absolutely, they're trying to figure out how to get back into contention
04:33 with this team.
04:33 They will never, at this point, they're not gonna be top four,
04:38 but if you look at the West, what the Warriors are looking for.
04:43 And from my perspective, it's like when you have this quote unquote championship
04:47 DNA, you just wanna get into the tournament.
04:49 You don't wanna get in the playoffs, ideally not have to play too many road
04:52 games, but if you do, these guys know you just need to win 16 games.
04:57 And they've done that four times, and they've gotten close a couple other times.
05:02 So that's all it takes, and just the right chemistry to peak at the right time.
05:07 And that's just give them a chance, you know what I mean?
05:11 And then they can just turn it on a little bit and just go for it.
05:17 >> So what do you think in retooling this roster around Steph,
05:21 what do you think they're trying to achieve?
05:23 What are the major needs of this team?
05:26 Just again, so we can maybe try and match up here what Charlotte has to offer and
05:30 see if there are any kind of clearing of this area.
05:32 So what do you think the biggest needs for
05:34 the Warriors heading into this trade deadline?
05:37 >> Right now I think the Warriors are a little small up front.
05:42 I think they could use a center.
05:45 I think that, excuse me, I think they could use another wing,
05:51 to be honest, because Andrew Wiggins is just not Andrew Wiggins anymore,
05:58 which is odd for a guy without a major injury who's only 28 years old.
06:03 But I think they also need, I mean, they need what they lost with Jordan Poole,
06:09 even though I wasn't a huge Poole fan.
06:11 And what we're seeing from Poole in Washington is kind of what I expected.
06:14 They need somebody who can just score and they don't have that.
06:21 So I would say a big and a guy who can just get points.
06:29 >> Yeah. >> When Steph is getting tired,
06:31 you know what I mean?
06:32 >> Yeah, understood.
06:34 So I think from a Charlotte Hornets perspective to kind of let you know
06:37 where our situation is with this team.
06:41 The Hornets are, this is a lost season now.
06:44 There is no more trying to get back into the play.
06:45 And for me, they're going to this trade deadline, largely probably as sellers or
06:50 again, like retooling.
06:52 I don't think they're in a position they're gonna be putting picks on the table for
06:54 anybody.
06:55 But this team has some massive holes in terms of toughness,
07:01 physicality, outside shooting and veteran presence.
07:05 Those are the kind of four key strands that whenever you look at what this Hornets
07:10 team needs, they need to add that.
07:11 So I think in any trade between these two teams,
07:14 the Hornets are gonna be trying to add at least one to two of those areas.
07:18 In terms of the pieces that are off the table, I think for
07:20 Charlotte it would be the LeMellor ball, Brandon Miller, Mark Williams.
07:23 I think there'd be a very high price and Terry Rozier.
07:27 And then I have kind of Gordon Hayward in a just has to be traded type mold,
07:32 because if he's not traded, he might get a buyout and
07:34 that does help the team very little.
07:36 Or guys like PJ Washington, I think they would be open to moving.
07:43 Kind of currently like their sixth man right now, but
07:45 it's had to start games because of injury.
07:47 And Miles Bridges again, with the right deal, but he's just so
07:50 hard to trade because he has a no trade clause because of the off the court stuff,
07:54 because of no bird rights.
07:55 He's just, I think there's just too many stumbling blocks for
07:58 any realistic miles British trade and everyone else in the team.
08:02 Probably available for the right price.
08:03 You know guys like Nick Richards who's shown to be a solid, a good backup center
08:07 and a decent spot starter.
08:09 He's probably the most interesting of those other names.
08:12 But I'd say that's where the Hornets currently are.
08:15 And the reason I think the Warriors are so interesting is because there's just a heap
08:19 of names who I think meet some of those criteria.
08:22 So I'll run through them all here and I'll let you choose where you want to go.
08:27 Andrew Wiggins, we've already mentioned.
08:28 You're talking about in those finals where they beat the Celtics.
08:34 He was big physical play that small ball four was able to be like
08:38 a rebounding monster played with such level of intensity and physicality.
08:44 I remember watching that thinking, my God,
08:46 the Charlotte Hornets would love to have this version of Andrew Wiggins.
08:50 And now his stock has plummeted and we're going to talk about that I'm sure.
08:54 But he's a guy who has some interest as a negative asset,
08:59 where it's a complete reclamation project.
09:01 And I think that's the business the Charlotte Hornets have to probably be in
09:04 right now as a franchise.
09:06 So I think he has some value there.
09:08 You also have Chris Paul.
09:10 Again, the ultimate veteran experience.
09:13 The Hornets have struggled for a backup point guard for the last two seasons.
09:17 They've struggled for veteran presence.
09:19 He's went to Wake Forest, is very well respected,
09:24 still can play when he's on the court.
09:26 He's another guy I think has some value.
09:30 And then Draymond Green, probably a controversial name among some.
09:35 I still think he would be someone who would, again, bring intensity,
09:38 physicality, defense, which a lot of things I talked about the Charlotte Hornets
09:42 needing.
09:43 This is all a bit of an asterisk if he's in a mentally stable place,
09:47 which I don't think we know the answer to that right now.
09:51 But I think those are the three names that jump out to me.
09:54 Look, Hornets fans, I can tell you right now, Patrick,
09:57 are gonna be clamoring for Jonathan Kaminga.
10:00 But I just don't think the Warriors are gonna trade him.
10:02 And if they do, I don't think the Hornets are in the business of giving up
10:05 the assets that they're gonna need.
10:06 And probably the same, I'd say, with Moses Moody as well, but
10:10 maybe to a lesser extent.
10:12 So my view went to the veterans on the Warriors rather than the young players.
10:18 And yeah, I'm happy to go whichever one of those you think is most interesting.
10:22 >> Yeah, I mean, I think that it's funny cuz Draymond is good friends with Bridges.
10:30 And that'd be great.
10:31 >> Yes, Michigan State alum, both of them, aren't they?
10:33 And yeah.
10:35 >> Yeah, and I mean, it's, I mean, let's go Wiggins.
10:41 And I mean, Wiggins and Chris Paul are completely viable.
10:45 I think those are two names that if guys get traded,
10:48 those are two that are way up front because Chris Paul's expiring contract.
10:53 And because Wiggins has fallen out of favor, as you said, so
10:57 we could talk about that.
10:58 >> Yeah, okay, with Wiggins, here's my question.
11:03 He's obviously not the same player he was this year.
11:05 Do we ever know what exactly happened with Andrew Wiggins taking time away from
11:10 the team?
11:11 Cuz it always seems like since that moment, he's never been the same player since.
11:16 And I don't know if his downturn this year is,
11:19 is it just he's in the system isn't fitting him?
11:23 Is it just a bad year?
11:25 Or is there something that we think has fundamentally
11:28 changed with Andrew Wiggins from that moment?
11:30 >> Well, we all know his reputation before coming to the Warriors, right?
11:35 Like a guy who, number one pick, didn't live up to it and
11:39 was better suited being a second fiddle.
11:41 He came to the Warriors, became third fiddle in those finals and
11:45 that playoff run.
11:47 He became overall their second best player during that.
11:51 And now he just he completely fell off and we don't know.
11:57 Like people have hypothesized what happened or
12:00 what the family issue was last season.
12:03 And I haven't heard anything reported that's official, so
12:08 I'm not gonna conjecture about it, you know what I mean?
12:11 But it was everything you could imagine, right?
12:14 So this season, there was no chatter about any issues with him physically.
12:20 Some people, when he started off poorly, thought that he got a busted rib in
12:25 the Lakers series, and maybe he hadn't fully recovered.
12:29 But there's been absolutely no chatter, it's been several months since then.
12:33 And one of my issues with some of the local media and
12:37 just people like the Warriors is that everybody's asking
12:42 Klay Thompson or talking to him.
12:46 And I know it's Klay Thompson, he's a bigger deal with the Warriors than Wiggins.
12:49 But asking Klay Thompson, or talking to him about his shot selection,
12:53 hunting shots, decisions, chasing his past or whatever.
12:58 But no one's addressing why Andrew Wiggins is not living up to this.
13:04 I mean, Andrew Wiggins will be 29 in February, and
13:08 he doesn't have any major injuries in his career.
13:13 And I'm like, man, I bet you Klay Thompson, I would kill for
13:17 Klay Thompson to be 28, 29 and have no major leg injuries.
13:20 I mean, that's when he was at his peak, right?
13:22 So I just don't get it.
13:24 And I wonder sometimes does Wiggins get a pass because he has his reputation or
13:28 because he just chooses to be quiet, no one bugs him about it.
13:32 But that's what is somewhat frustrating about it because it's like,
13:37 can someone just, is Steph going behind the scenes being like,
13:40 get it together, try harder, what's the deal?
13:44 Some people just said he's not in shape, he came in not focused.
13:50 But nothing has been really said and
13:53 I don't know if the Warriors are protecting him or-
13:56 >> It is a real mystery box situation,
13:58 it seems.
13:59 >> Yeah, yeah.
14:00 >> Obviously, the offense clearly hasn't been there.
14:02 Has it been a downturn on the defensive end as well this year?
14:06 >> No, he's picked it up.
14:08 He was terrible to start the season, but he's been better.
14:11 Offensively, he's given it a shot more and
14:16 Kerr pulls him if he's not hitting it, but he's still good on the ball defense.
14:22 And I always say, I heard someone, I think it was Bill Simmons,
14:27 conjecture that the Warriors should trade Kamenga and Wiggins in a package for
14:32 Siakam, and I'm like, of course you do.
14:35 Because those are the two most athletic dudes on an athletic wasteland.
14:41 And they would have nobody to play athletic wings or
14:46 to defend on the perimeter or point of attack, so he still got that.
14:51 >> Yeah, okay, interesting about Wiggins.
14:53 Onto Chris Paul, where are Warriors organization at with Chris Paul?
15:00 Obviously, he was a vehicle to kind of move out Jordan Poole.
15:04 And I think from what I understood, he started the year quite well.
15:08 But do you still think, again, you talk about size, scoring guard,
15:13 another wing, center.
15:15 It doesn't sound like this team is in desperate need of maybe what Chris Paul
15:19 can give, is that fair?
15:21 >> The problem with Poole last year was that he was just a turnover machine,
15:26 still is.
15:26 And what the Warriors had problems with were non-step minutes.
15:32 So when Steph sits, they were minus.
15:35 And Chris Paul was supposed to solve that, and he did, to some extent,
15:40 because the bench was better, they were better than the starters.
15:44 But now that he's hurt, and he's out several weeks, I mean-
15:49 >> Four to six weeks with a hand injury, and
15:51 that's from about early, kind of mid-January.
15:54 So we're talking about after the trade deadline.
15:55 He's not gonna be back till well after the trade deadline here.
15:57 And the Warriors don't really have that much flexibility for
16:00 getting in the playoffs, right?
16:02 >> Yeah, so when you're talking about where the Warriors are right now, and
16:06 you gotta make a deal, he's just a trade ship that you have to put out there
16:11 because it was expiring, to try to get somebody from maybe
16:16 a rebuilding tanking team or something like that.
16:19 >> Yeah, okay, and the Draymond side, just finally to touch on briefly.
16:26 It sounds like maybe you're more willing to move Draymond personally, but
16:30 you think it's more unlikely because Steph would be reluctant to go that route.
16:34 >> I do, I think he'd be reluctant because Draymond does so
16:40 much for him on offense, and he's just a cog on the defense.
16:44 So I think that's a non-starter,
16:50 unless when he comes back, he gets suspended again or he does something.
16:55 And it's just too far.
16:59 >> Okay, and then the salary cap situation for Golden State in the summer,
17:03 what is that looking for?
17:04 Are they looking to kind of shed costs, do you think, for this summer?
17:09 Is that something that's motivating them right now?
17:11 Again, just to understand whether they're looking to take back money or
17:14 looking for expirings.
17:16 >> Yeah, the Warriors are always going to look to shed, right?
17:21 And Klay Thompson's deal is up.
17:24 He was originally rumored to be looking for a max, but he doesn't.
17:29 I mean, he can't, he's not going to get that.
17:31 But they're way over, they're a second apron team,
17:38 and they're not going to be able to sign anybody outright.
17:41 So everything right now is going to acquire a player, it's going to be trades.
17:47 And not just now, of course, but down the road.
17:51 That's how you're going to make it work.
17:53 >> So let's maybe move on to some potential trade talks then.
17:58 So the first name I'm going to offer up is Gordon Haywood,
18:02 who is on an expiring 30 plus million dollar contract.
18:07 So he meets that threshold of freeze up money for the Warriors going forward.
18:13 Look, I understand Haywood has a checkered health history, and
18:18 that is going to reduce the value in any Haywood trade.
18:20 I completely understand that.
18:23 He's hurt right now, the calf strain should be back probably in around a week.
18:26 So should be playing again before the trade deadline.
18:29 But he is someone who I think could fit well into a Steve Kerr system.
18:32 He has a high passing IQ.
18:34 He can shoot the ball, he can score in the mid post.
18:37 He gives you a scoring wing,
18:39 which some of the needs that you're talking about.
18:41 And he's expiring going into next summer.
18:44 He's a win now player, he's a guy who you're not waiting for him to develop.
18:48 I think he would come in and contribute and could possibly see someone who could
18:52 resign in Golden State after the season if he has a good time there.
18:57 And do you think he matches any interest and
19:01 what kind of packages built around Gordon Haywood,
19:04 do you think would potentially be of interest?
19:06 >> I think Gordon Haywood, I think he helps in that, like you said,
19:15 the passing and the scoring element, he probably would fit.
19:18 He's not the sexiest name for Warriors fans because they've already shown that
19:23 they're pretty slow and they're getting older.
19:25 And with those injuries, Haywood is older than his age.
19:31 He probably to me just on paper would be more helpful to the Warriors than,
19:35 well, not defensively.
19:38 He wouldn't help the Warriors defensively.
19:40 I was gonna say he'd be better than Andrew Wiggins, but
19:42 I don't necessarily think the Warriors would spend any of their draft, sorry,
19:46 their trade capital on Gordon Haywood.
19:50 Just because if you take Wiggins, if you try to move him and Chris Paul,
19:55 they're gonna try to get probably somebody from another team that
20:01 helps them more specifically in their needs.
20:04 I mean, Haywood can score and that's one thing in particular.
20:08 But I mean, I could see lineups where he would work, but
20:14 I just don't know if he would be the guy that the Warriors would be like, okay,
20:19 let's move so and so to put us over the top or closer to contention.
20:28 >> So this comes down to what the team see Wiggins as his value, right?
20:31 Because you could argue like Andrew Wiggins right now and
20:33 say four more years of this at that price.
20:36 He is a negative value contract and Gordon Haywood gives you a route out of that.
20:40 But it doesn't sound like from what you said that the Warriors are quite at
20:43 that point yet.
20:44 They are hoping that this is a blip, a dip.
20:47 They would be open to trade.
20:48 I think Tim Kawakimi reported today that he thinks they will trade Wiggins.
20:53 But you think there will be a bigger fish would be the return than rather just
20:58 a good player who gives salary cap relief.
21:01 You think they would be pursuing something, yeah, a little bit more impactful.
21:05 >> I do, I do.
21:09 To be honest, if you told me right now there's nobody else that wants
21:12 Andrew Wiggins, I would potentially make that deal.
21:17 But it might give them a better chance to get to the postseason, but
21:21 I don't know if it would help them.
21:23 But I just don't think it's something that would move
21:27 the needle all the way to where the trigger would get pulled.
21:34 >> Okay, and then if we're talking about for the Chris Paul side, obviously not for
21:38 Wiggins, but you're talking about Chris Paul, that does get the team a lot bigger.
21:43 Right, obviously you lose the back of point guard, but
21:46 Gordon Haywood would be able to come in.
21:48 And assuming that he is back in a week because he's due from his calf injury,
21:52 he'd be able to come in and play immediately in the next four to six weeks,
21:56 which Chris Paul could not.
21:57 Do you think there would be any interest there for
22:01 a Haywood Chris Paul swap in that sense?
22:03 >> Again, I think that the Warriors-
22:12 >> You give me the truth,
22:14 you don't feel you need to clarify this.
22:16 >> Again, in a vacuum maybe, but
22:22 honestly I think Warriors fans would be like, are you serious?
22:25 You got Gordon Haywood with these trade assets?
22:29 Again, I think they'd be willing to package Chris Paul and Andrew Wiggins and
22:36 maybe one of their young guys if they can get a shot at somebody better.
22:40 >> Someone major.
22:40 >> You know what I mean?
22:41 >> Okay. >> At other teams.
22:43 I mean, the names that get tossed around are the ones you,
22:46 just I'm sure you've heard them.
22:47 Gosh, I mean, fans get- >> Murray, those type of people.
22:55 >> Yeah, and people talking like Jared Allen and I'm like, is he even on the block?
23:00 Just fans making stuff up, but just guys tossing stuff out there to fit specific
23:06 needs and the one thing that is that Hayward is just older and slower and
23:11 that's not what the, the word would probably get shredded for
23:13 getting an older, slower player.
23:17 >> Okay, understood.
23:18 So I'll hand over to you.
23:21 Are there any potential players or moves that you think that you can see between
23:25 the two rosters that make any sense?
23:27 >> Let's see, so,
23:31 [LAUGH] which I would try to make a small trade for
23:36 Nick Richards, to be honest.
23:40 >> Yeah, okay.
23:42 >> Yeah, yeah, cuz- >> Which is understandable.
23:44 He's a seven foot screen, rim dive center, sets really good screens,
23:49 would be something Steph Curry I'm sure would enjoy.
23:52 Offensive rebounder, rebounds really well, block shots,
23:56 like is limited in what he will do, he can't really pass at all.
24:00 He's not a great processor of the game, that would always be my worry with
24:03 the Warriors, like in the dribble handoff situation, he's pretty limited.
24:07 But for a team that needs size and physicality and interior presence,
24:12 I can understand him being somewhat of interest, yeah, I get that.
24:17 >> Yeah, and what is contracts, five mil, so it's not like a big trade,
24:22 but it's somebody that, I mean, I think that he would probably,
24:26 what I liked about him is when I saw him last season,
24:30 when I played against James Wiseman.
24:32 I mean, in that first game in Charlotte,
24:36 where the Hornets beat the Warriors at the beginning of 2022,
24:41 or the 2022, 23 season, he bodied.
24:44 >> I remember, that was the peak of the Hornets season,
24:47 that was literally the best single moment of last season.
24:51 So I remember that game exactly.
24:54 >> Yeah, and he bodied Wiseman and I was like, come on.
25:00 And so while Nick Richards may have some flaws,
25:04 the Warriors could use some just guy at the end of the bench.
25:09 And I don't know if he would be necessarily better than maybe a Trace
25:14 Jackson Davis for the Warriors, but because Trace Jackson Davis does a lot more.
25:19 But just to have some size, he may not be the ideal person that Warriors fans and
25:24 media are looking for.
25:25 But if we're talking about somebody that fills a need that is potentially
25:30 available, I would be like, sure, I like that guy from last season,
25:35 put him out there.
25:36 Just play centers, teams with bigs, give us six fouls and
25:41 just rebound the ball and try to play some defense.
25:46 So I think- >> Yeah, and we've said in our podcast
25:50 before, Nick Richards is probably a top five to eight backup center in the NBA.
25:56 That's kind of how we pitch him.
25:58 And I know Warriors fans might have seen a lot of him, but
26:00 he's perfectly respectable.
26:02 And he gives Golden State something that they didn't really have in their other
26:06 center options.
26:07 Like even Trace Jackson Davis, Kevin Looney, they are much smaller guys and
26:11 he's much more size, which could be useful.
26:15 I guess, what do you see on the Warriors roster?
26:18 There's two names that jump out to me.
26:19 Gary Payton, I'm not sure how you feel about him,
26:23 not someone we've talked about a lot.
26:25 And probably Moses Moody, again, seems to be very popular from what I can see
26:31 among fans, but maybe less so with the coaching staff.
26:35 Those are the names that jump out to me, but
26:36 is, yeah, what were you thinking with Nick Richards?
26:39 >> I would love to give you Gary Payton.
26:41 [LAUGH] I mean, the guy's injured again, and
26:46 he's a bit injury prone at this point.
26:48 And, but I also think he's one of Steph's favorite guys on the team.
26:54 And he does fill a need, the point of attack guy when he's healthy.
26:57 So that would be who I offer up.
27:04 But I don't think Moses Moody is,
27:08 I don't think they would move Moody for Richards at all.
27:13 The Warriors do like him, the fans like him.
27:16 And that whole thing with them chanting Moody's name was because they like him,
27:22 but also because they disapprove of some of Kerr's decisions and rotations.
27:30 So I don't think, he is potentially, of course, to be had.
27:37 But again, I think they would try to package him for a bigger fish overall.
27:44 But 100%, I think I would swap Richards for Payton,
27:50 because you're either getting some size to protect the rim a little bit,
27:54 or you keep the guy who's point of attack.
27:58 So it's a tough one for the Warriors in that respect,
28:02 just gotta look at what they need now.
28:05 >> So I'd probably opt against that deal for Charlotte.
28:10 I'd consider it, right?
28:12 If it wasn't for Payton's health, then it would be more interesting.
28:16 I mean, he is a really good veteran presence.
28:18 That guy's been through a lot in his NBA journey, been out the league,
28:22 all the way to the finals.
28:24 He is probably one of the best defenders in the NBA when he is healthy.
28:28 And he's learned a way to play without the ball,
28:30 especially in Golden State, and brings that really well.
28:34 And the Hornets probably had a smaller size version of Gary Payton last year in
28:39 Dennis Smith Jr., and he made a real impact on the team.
28:42 So I do think there's value there.
28:45 The things that scare me away are his health history, right?
28:49 Whereas Nick Richards has been somebody who's been pretty available.
28:52 He's 31 years old, Nick Richards is 26, and
28:55 Nick Richards is signed for another year.
28:58 So if you're doing a stock up, stock down here,
29:01 I think Nick Richards is continuing to build.
29:04 Gary Payton feels like with the injury and age, he's beginning to dip.
29:08 And for me, I wouldn't quite pull the trigger.
29:11 Although Gary Payton's skill set specifically would be of interest to add
29:15 to the Hornets, I just think that Nick Richards is a, yeah,
29:20 I don't think that deal quite makes sense.
29:22 If the Hornets were one defensive guard away from being a playoff team,
29:27 then yeah, maybe, but they're so far away, it seems strange to kind of
29:31 give away a player for an older guy who is on a shorter contract.
29:36 Who, let's be honest, Gary Payton will have no interest in being in Charlotte once
29:39 that contract comes to an end.
29:40 So I think for that reason,
29:43 I would need more draft capital coming back with Gary Payton.
29:47 And I don't know if there's, to be honest, like you say,
29:50 if it would make sense for both sides.
29:53 >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that is perfectly, perfectly legit.
29:59 Let me ask you, you said that the price for Rozier would be pretty high.
30:04 What would the price be?
30:05 Because just Rozier is like a score, he's small.
30:10 I don't think he's particularly good defensively, but
30:13 he doesn't necessarily fit the Warriors, but he does score.
30:19 So I'm just curious from a Hornets perspective, what that would be.
30:23 >> Yeah, I mean, look, Terry Rozier's averages this year are better than
30:27 Carey Irving's and Damian Lillard's.
30:29 If you look at them, I'm not saying he's better than both those players, but
30:33 this season, he's been playing particularly well.
30:36 He has been the Hornets on ball defender for the point of attack,
30:40 while also being the primary ball handler to create for others.
30:44 While also being the clutch guy to carry them down the stretch and
30:48 to score during games.
30:48 He's had to do everything this season and he's done it remarkably well.
30:52 He signed for another three years.
30:54 He's the leader of the team in terms of being like the culture setter.
30:57 He's valued, I think, more by this front office and coaching staff than he
31:03 generally is valued around the league, because he's a 6'1" scoring guard,
31:07 is basically how people view him.
31:09 So I think he means a lot to the Hornets more than others,
31:13 which is why I say I think his price would be high.
31:16 I would say you're looking at a, for the Hornets specifically,
31:20 they'd have to be really blown away for an officer.
31:23 Something like two first round picks.
31:25 Again, I don't think trading Rozier in a Wiggins deal would be something,
31:33 again, you're trading someone whose stock is going up versus someone whose stock
31:36 is going down and that could look really bad in six months after that trade.
31:44 >> Draymond Green for Terry Rozier, now that's interesting.
31:47 >> [LAUGH] >> Me personally, I don't even know.
31:55 I'd consider it.
31:56 I would consider it.
31:57 I think this would be one where I'd wanna speak to Draymond to be like,
32:00 if you come to Charlotte, Draymond, you're not gonna retire here.
32:03 Are you gonna come here and buy in or
32:07 do you just hate the idea of this from the start?
32:10 Cuz this team just needs, I know he has his flaws, trust me.
32:15 I know he's a little bit strange, Draymond Green.
32:18 But equally, he holds everybody accountable.
32:21 He sets a physical tone.
32:22 Him and the Mellow Ball in the dribble handoff actions could be so
32:28 exciting and interesting to see.
32:30 I've long thought Draymond Green,
32:32 if things ever went south in Golden State, could be interesting.
32:36 So yeah, I don't know if you think that's something,
32:40 I don't think the Warriors would consider that for a second.
32:43 But as a Hornets fan, I think some Hornets fans would reject it as well.
32:47 I'd actually be open to it.
32:48 >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, Warriors fans would not be happy with that.
32:54 And I think it just doesn't make basketball sense on the court, right?
33:01 To get like- >> Moller, where's the fence again?
33:05 >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I was just curious,
33:07 cuz how other teams perceive their own players and whatnot.
33:13 So I don't know, that's interesting stuff.
33:16 >> Yeah, well, it doesn't sound like we've been able to find a deal
33:21 that would work.
33:21 I was hoping Gordon Hayward as an expiring, not the player so much, but
33:26 his money flexibility would, and a bit of a scoring would maybe be of interest for
33:32 Paul or Wiggins, but it doesn't sound like that's gonna be getting done, like you say.
33:36 It might be maybe one of those things where if other deals don't get done and
33:39 the deadline is ticking down, then maybe it's something the Warriors circle back to.
33:44 Is there, it's on the table, but it's not their first choice,
33:47 it's their plan C, D, or E.
33:49 Do you think that's kind of a fair summary?
33:51 >> I think it is fair, because if everything else falls out and
33:58 if by the trade deadline come February 8th, Wiggins hasn't turned it around.
34:03 If the only thing left on the table is get off his contract,
34:07 then I can see that being a potential, but just to have someone.
34:12 But I think what the Warriors have with Wiggins is that, he did it before,
34:17 and he's still good defensively, and we're gonna need that.
34:22 So it might be a tough pull if you're getting weaker defensively.
34:27 >> And would you say CP3 is ahead of Wiggins in the pecking order?
34:30 So you say that even less likely for CP3?
34:33 >> I think CP3 is just,
34:37 his contract is part of a package,
34:43 that's what it is.
34:46 It would be a sweetener, and it would just be, I think it's almost equal,
34:52 because of the circumstances of his contract and his injury.
34:57 But if all things being equal, I think it would wanna keep Chris Paul over
35:03 Andrew Wiggins to some extent, if their contracts were the same and
35:07 they were both healthy.
35:09 >> Interesting, okay.
35:10 I'm still dreaming of Chris Paul ending his career in Charlotte,
35:13 doing the Tony Parker one year deal in Charlotte.
35:16 And then he can sail off into the veteran sunset as a player.
35:20 And even someone as Chris Paul, I've thought about this over the years,
35:24 being in a front office or a coaching role,
35:27 he's one of the wisest basketball heads there is.
35:31 He can rub his teammates up the wrong way,
35:33 we saw that in a couple of stops, right?
35:35 But that's because he holds people accountable,
35:37 which again is just something this Charlotte Hornets team lacks.
35:40 But Patrick, I think we've probably come to the end here of our mock
35:44 trade discussions.
35:45 I'm a little bit good, we couldn't get a deal done.
35:48 I was hopeful of this one, but- >> Yeah, yeah.
35:51 >> Can't force these things.
35:52 I understand the Warriors have their sights set much higher on players
35:57 probably that are more impactful than what Charlotte can probably offer.
36:02 >> Yeah, I forgot to ask about PJ Washington, but that's for another day.
36:05 >> He's available, he's available.
36:07 But PJ Washington for Andrew Wiggins, that works straight up.
36:12 I had that one written down on my sheet, but
36:14 the way the conversation went made me think, again, the hope for
36:19 Wiggins is to turn into something bigger than a rotation stretch for.
36:23 >> I would actually do PJ Washington over that, I would do that trade.
36:30 >> Really?
36:31 >> [LAUGH] Yeah, maybe I haven't watched enough PJ Washington,
36:34 maybe you're down on him, but- >> No, I'm not.
36:39 >> He's younger, he doesn't have an injury history.
36:44 Obviously, he's three year declining contract Washington, so
36:47 16 this year goes down to I think 13 in his final year.
36:50 Is a complacent small ball five play four, but he's not a wing defender, right?
36:56 That's probably like he's very much more of a front court player than a wing guy.
37:01 But I mean, Washington for Wiggins,
37:04 that's a very interesting one of your Charlotte.
37:07 I would strongly consider that.
37:11 Again, this comes down to Andrew Wiggins,
37:14 what is going on in that head of his?
37:16 I would have to do my background research Intel, and
37:21 if it all turns out to be good for Wiggins and that we think this is just a blip,
37:25 then I would do that Washington for Wiggins deal.
37:27 But if that background isn't great, if there's worries about,
37:31 does he really love basketball, has he lost the love of the game?
37:34 Then I would probably shy away from it.
37:37 >> Yeah, yeah, like you said, for the Warriors,
37:41 he doesn't give them anything on the perimeter.
37:45 They lose a point of attack guy, they get less athletic.
37:48 And it's not like PJ Washington is 6'10", 7'0".
37:52 >> No, 6'8", 6'7", 6'8" on a good day.
37:56 >> Yeah, so I think with him, just for me, it's like the frustration with Wiggins and
38:02 whether or not he's going to turn it around.
38:06 I would potentially pull that trigger if nothing else came to fruition.
38:12 So that would be the trade I would green light with.
38:15 >> I think that's the one we're closest on.
38:17 I think that's the one of all the ones we've talked about.
38:19 I think that's what we're closest on.
38:20 A reclamation project for Andrew Wiggins.
38:24 He brings you an on ball defender for the wing.
38:26 Yeah, that's an interesting one.
38:29 It would be background Intel dependent, but that's interesting.
38:33 Well, that's a good one to finish on, Patrick.
38:36 I'm glad you brought that one up before we finished out there.
38:39 Tell the people where they can find your podcast if they want to get more Warriors
38:42 news.
38:42 >> Yeah, you can find it on YouTube at youtube.com/OaklandWarriors.
38:48 You find me on the socials @OaklandWarriors as well.
38:52 >> Great.
38:54 Well, Patrick, thanks a lot for your time.
38:56 If there are any trades, anything that happens with the Warriors in the future,
39:00 we'll definitely have you back on here.
39:01 >> Sounds good, man.
39:03 Thanks for having me.
39:04 >> Thank you.
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