Join us as we discuss Sustainability and Travel with an esteemed group of panelists. Cofounder of AFAR, Joe Diaz; Global Sustainable Tourism Council CEO Randy Durband; Shannon Guihan, The Travel Corporation’s Chief TreadRight and Sustainability Officer; and Anita Mendiratta, Special Advisor to the Secretary General of the United Nations World Tourism Organization will all weigh in during a conversation moderated by Annie Fitzsimmons, AFAR Advisor and Luxury Travel Editor.
———
CONNECT WITH AFAR
Afar.com is a digital and print magazine that publishes travel tips, guides, news, and stories: https://www.afar.com
Get updates on the latest articles, travel news, and more from AFAR by signing up for the AFAR newsletter: https://afar.com/newsletters
Follow AFAR on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AfarMedia
Follow AFAR on Twitter: https://twitter.com/afarmedia
Follow AFAR on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/afarmedia
Follow AFAR on Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/afarmedia
———
CONNECT WITH AFAR
Afar.com is a digital and print magazine that publishes travel tips, guides, news, and stories: https://www.afar.com
Get updates on the latest articles, travel news, and more from AFAR by signing up for the AFAR newsletter: https://afar.com/newsletters
Follow AFAR on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AfarMedia
Follow AFAR on Twitter: https://twitter.com/afarmedia
Follow AFAR on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/afarmedia
Follow AFAR on Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/afarmedia
Category
🏖
TravelTranscript
00:00:00 So thank you guys for being here today. Again, as I said, you know, it's just nice to be back on a far live. We have the most incredible group of panelists, which I'll get to but I wanted to first say a few words about our topic, which is sustainability
00:00:13 unpacked, which came from our co founder Joe Diaz who's on this call.
00:00:17 And one attendee sent in a comment before today's session that said I would really like to focus on the how we take action we continue to talk about this topic but we need to talk about the next steps of how and I so agree with that and that's my goal
00:00:32 for this conversation.
00:00:34 For a long time, especially luxury travel there's been a narrative that is glorified more more more right like how many bottles in the bathroom Can you bring home and how big is the convention center and, you know, flying in cheeses from from France
00:00:47 or Austria for the $800 dinner, and that conversation has completely changed it did before COVID but definitely now.
00:00:55 We want to have fun, right so if it's not good for the consumer it's not good for the company it's not an either or.
00:01:01 Because if you're a sustainable traveler that's the best kind of travel so and I'm coming at this probably like a lot of you on this call someone who cares a lot purpose driven a lot of the time deep curiosity obsessive researcher but not an expert, which is why
00:01:15 we have these wonderful people on the call so I usually introduce myself but I'd love to just let you guys introduce yourselves for quickly before we get started.
00:01:24 Can I start with Randy who's it's 2am for Randy, so it's only 1am. Oh 1am. Okay, yeah yeah yeah yeah.
00:01:35 I'm in Korea, that's why it's 1am everyone so yeah so I'm Randy Durbin GSTC CEO I've been in traveling tourism next month will be 40 years.
00:01:47 I spent more than a quarter century with tour operators, more than 20 years at TALC tours left as an executive vice president wore a million hats there.
00:01:58 I'm also president of traffic or luxury tour operator. So my world is knowing outbound tour operators during that time I worked on.
00:02:06 I was on the board of directors of European tour operators Association is involved in passive Pacific Asian Travel Association us to a mta CTC.
00:02:15 I operated travel on all seven continents, and then I had a second career, about a dozen years ago I decided to take my knowledge of the business of travel and my passion for sustainability.
00:02:28 And now I make less money work this as long hours and just as much stress to try to make the world a better place so here I am. We appreciate all you do. Thank you.
00:02:39 Anita.
00:02:41 My name is Anita mentor author, I am very proud to be a tourism and development practitioner author diplomat, and an honor presence, I run my own little business called Anita mentor auto and associates I'm London base so I'm relatively near many of our
00:02:57 partners around on that are on today. And I've been working in the industry for about 25 years professionally and living across all continents, alongside I'm very blessed to be the special advisor of the Secretary General of the UNW to who sends
00:03:12 me a lot of emails he knows that we are on this session today, and Annie he's very grateful that we're taking the time to pause and really unpack a word that has become in so many ways overused over traded and under understood, we can say, and most
00:03:28 recently the firm has been working non stop and trying to help businesses leaders government and corporations, trying to understand how do they actually work through the short, medium and long term decision making around covert 19, and its impact.
00:03:44 So that's been the, I was going to say nine to five but it's been more 24 7365.
00:03:50 And I'm really grateful to be on boards from Saudi Arabia to South Africa, and which allows me to compliment Shannon who's about to introduce herself on a recent international award that she was given by the WTTC this week for her leadership and sustainability
00:04:07 and members I'm allowed to bust you and call it out.
00:04:26 Shannon award winner.
00:04:30 Thanks so much, Anita. And so my name is Shannon Guillaume and I'm the chief tread right and sustainability officer for the travel corporation. That is a family of 40 plus brands including Kentucky Trafalgar red carnation hotels you know world, and so on.
00:04:48 And I started in the industry when I was 16 so we can guess at the math, and I've never left I've grown up as a guide.
00:04:58 See kayak guide bike guide. And I have worked with tour operators globally summer on the call I see Kathy's here so I started and grew up at Butterfield and Robinson for a while and then moved around to other tour operators.
00:05:13 However, my master's is in tourism and environmental management. And I grew up in a place in East Coast Canada and Newfoundland where there was a real shift from fisheries over to tourism.
00:05:26 And in fact it was a mad dash so I watched tourism happen without any planning and that's really why my focus has remained in sustainable tourism development, my former destination consultant and now I set the strategic approach to sustainability
00:05:45 and the travel corporation. In addition to overseeing our philanthropic efforts at the tread right foundation. Oh, amazing. Thank you guys and Joe I'll let you introduce yourself and then kind of open us up with how we got to this conversation and why is
00:06:02 sustainable sustainability so confusing.
00:06:05 Yeah, I'm really excited to spend this time today I'm Joe Diaz co founder of afar, and, yeah, I think the fact that we're even getting to have this conversation means that we're able to pull ourselves up a little bit from the, you know, traumatic and incredible 1516
00:06:29 that we've had, and that we've experienced in this industry so the fact that we're able to kind of look at the long term again and begin thinking about, you know, those most important things is something that I'm just grateful for.
00:06:43 Yeah, how did we get here, I think you know part of it is just thinking about reflecting on our last year, you know, travel essentially shut down for us in the middle of March, and a lot of the questions were around what do we do, you know, and it was everybody
00:07:04 trying to figure out what to do.
00:07:06 And he just so proud of you for realizing that the industry just needed to come together everybody was so isolated and and confused and uncertain and so just even having the idea to have these afar lives where you could get the industry together to talk about topics
00:07:26 that are important to the industry important to us and create a sense of community has been phenomenal so thank you for creating this forum for us, you know, think about the last year we went from, you know, I feel like as an industry, really excited about where we are going to completely
00:07:45 stopping.
00:07:46 And so, the, the, the tack that I think afar took was instead of thinking about what can we do a lot of time went into thinking about what can we be.
00:07:59 Who do we want to be, how do we want to feel, what's the kind of company that we want to create coming out of this, and we saw all these insane tragic things happening.
00:08:13 From the George Floyd episode and everything that we've seen with racial injustice and inequality to just the impact that this virus has had not only on all of us but especially those that are, you know, poor disenfranchised
00:08:42 and disadvantaged, and so that has that was something that we really took to heart.
00:08:50 We saw the fact that governments started to talk about, and you're hearing about it now more just the regulation that could be coming down the pipe, because of the impact that climate change is having on all of us we saw threats like travel shaming,
00:09:09 that's going to continue to become even more real especially as issues around sustainability and climate change become sharper.
00:09:19 So we started asking ourselves the question like how can we become better stewards I know that's a question that a lot of folks listening in today want to know, like, how you know, not only what but how do we do this and so you know the steps that we, I think
00:09:36 that we started to take was realizing one.
00:09:41 We need to do more, as far as always been about using travel as a way to transform the self, you know, using an open mind and a curious spirit to really sit at the proverbial kitchen table with people and use travel as a way to transform who we are.
00:09:55 So we started to ask our questions how do we become better stewards, how can we use that transformation to go further, and the answers that we kept coming up with is, we need to do a better job leveraging that transformation to take care of the planet, and to take
00:10:11 care of the communities in which we're living working and playing.
00:10:16 So, first thing we did was we decided we want to become a public benefit company so far this year incorporated as a public benefit company responsible and not just to our shareholders, but to all stakeholders, where we're going to be measuring the impact of our work
00:10:34 and we're reporting that to all stakeholders. We evolved our mission and our vision to not only incorporate the ideas around transformation to the self, but how do we make an impact, how can our travelers continue to make an impact in this world.
00:10:51 We evolved our edit calendar to really align around our mission and vision.
00:10:55 We started working with DEI consultants and experts because we took a look around our house and we said, we need to do a better job at diversity, especially with our management team and create more opportunities for diverse voices to come in and be representative.
00:11:15 We also started looking at how we hire. That's what we're and that's kind of the exciting part now is we get to start hiring again. And so being able to do that with a fresh lens and evolved lens is exciting to us.
00:11:31 We also started looking at our own efforts, reaching out to folks like the GSTC. We saw the incredible work that Randy and Roy and their teams are doing. We said, we need to be able to help travelers understand this in better ways.
00:11:48 I myself and Greg and Roy have been on calls every week for basically the last year really talking about this. We created an incredible advisory board that is going to help even more.
00:12:03 That's really the first house that we did. It's getting our own house in order so that we can contribute in a powerful way. I do think sustainability is confusing. I want us to get into that.
00:12:14 I think with Afforents, it always starts with a mindset. We've been curious about the world, open-minded, willing to get outside our comfort zone a little bit and stretch ourselves.
00:12:24 Now we really realize that this mindset is about stewardship. It's similar to the Patek Philippe advertisement that we all see. You don't own the watch. You merely take care of it for the next generation.
00:12:40 That's really where we're headed.
00:12:43 Thank you, Joe. That's brilliant branding by Patek Philippe, by the way. I think all of us at Affarents have seen that firsthand because we also had a little more time this year.
00:12:53 A lot of us have been really busy, but all of us on this call have talked about we've had time this year to focus on this.
00:13:00 I want to start by asking, talking about my bubble tea with the plastic straw. Plastic straws have been something that have taken over the sustainability conversation in a way because it's been good branding.
00:13:15 We all know that they're bad, but we also know that their significance is overweighted. I wanted to ask each of you to dive right into the specifics. What is your plastic straw? What is the thing that you wish that would get that type of branding and significance
00:13:32 that would actually make a real difference?
00:13:35 I can start with Anita.
00:13:39 I like how we're all avoiding eye contact.
00:13:43 That's a big question. I know, but I want to get right into it.
00:13:46 My plastic straw, aside from the fact that I don't fundamentally believe that we need straws to begin with, whether it's plastic, pasta, bamboo, or paper, I don't think we need the straws.
00:13:55 Why is sustainability a choice?
00:13:58 That's what I struggle with. Fundamentally, why is it a choice? Because I loved what you were saying, Joe, about needing to really stand up and take a position on this. Because my argument is always, it's not what should we do?
00:14:10 How can we not? That's what I struggle with. That's my straw.
00:14:16 Yeah, and I love, I mean, you told me on our call too, you're like, "Well, what's the opposite of a sustainable company? Not in business." Right? That's like, yeah.
00:14:24 Shannon, what about you?
00:14:26 You know, mine's not terribly dissimilar, sadly. So I took a look at the questions you sent me this morning. Useful, thank you. And what frustrates me is how we continue to say, well, what makes a sustainable traveler versus just anybody?
00:14:44 So I don't know why we need to differentiate the way in which we behave at home and in our own communities from the way in which we do so when we travel. And I would really like us to get beyond that.
00:14:55 Because what I think it does is it prevents a barrier for people to recognize that sustainable tourism or sustainable travel is only complicated because of that word that makes people's eyes glaze over.
00:15:07 It's really, it ought not be that much more complicated.
00:15:10 Yeah, agreed. And Randy, what about you?
00:15:14 Well, Anita took mine as well. But let me take a different tack then. Short flights, short stay flights bother me.
00:15:28 You know, just before the pandemic, we saw globally the flight shame movement really growing. It came out of the Nordic countries, trickled down south through Europe, and it was jumping oceans to other developed countries.
00:15:39 I think that's a real risk to the entire travel industry is flight shame and the carbon emissions of aviation. It's our Achilles heel.
00:15:48 Everybody in the whole industry needs to take that money seriously because destinations, hotels, tour operators, everybody, we're still largely tied to aviation.
00:15:59 And if we're going to get at that, we can't have a mistake like in the US, the Black Lives Matter movement moved to defunding police.
00:16:07 What an incredible oversimplification that damaged its own cause. You can talk about police reform, but defunding.
00:16:14 So to me, flight shame has the potential also to go in this radically wrong direction where there'll be a pushback against it and say, these crazy hippies don't want us to fly at all.
00:16:25 So I think that's a real risk to the entire travel industry. And I think that's a real risk to the entire aviation industry.
00:16:32 I think that's a real risk to the entire aviation industry. And I think that's a real risk to the entire aviation industry.
00:16:39 So we have to reduce that carbon with more fun, more business, whatever. And so what airlines don't want to hear me say this, but we have to have less volume and longer stays, more authentic stays on leisure travel.
00:16:56 Business and leisure, you can't separate them anyway. People after a conference, after a meeting, they suddenly turn to leisure travelers.
00:17:01 You can't separate them as much. So that's my plastic straw. Length of stay. Amortize the flight.
00:17:08 Yeah, we're talking a lot about that, of course, on the edit side too, right? Longer stays and weeks. I mean, I don't want to go anywhere anymore for two days, right?
00:17:16 Even living in Europe. So, and Randy, I would love you to kind of tell us, I mean, you're considered, the GSTC is considered to be the gold level standard in the industry for ratings.
00:17:26 Can you just give an overview of that? Why you're considered the gold standard?
00:17:31 Well, because nobody can touch us in terms of our inclusivity, creating our standards and revising them.
00:17:37 We follow the ISIL Alliance standard setting code, which is a whole rule of public consultation.
00:17:44 So we were created in 2007 by UNEP and UNWTO.
00:17:48 They had gotten together in 2005 to give us the one sentence definition, sustainable tourism, that still stands up today.
00:17:54 And then they said, we need a longer definition. So they created us. So we're not in the UN system.
00:17:58 We're a nonprofit. UN Foundation set us up as a USA 501(c)(3) nonprofit.
00:18:05 So we're distinct from the UN system. But our process of developing our standards and revising them cannot be touched in terms of inclusivity.
00:18:16 So when people really look at that, they say, OK, we have in our directory more than 180 standards for hotels and sustainability alone.
00:18:25 But many of them are written by one person or a committee of three or whatever.
00:18:29 Nobody, nothing comes close to ours in terms of, again, a global process.
00:18:34 It's inclusive. Thousands of calls go out for input from public sector, private sector, academia, NGOs.
00:18:40 Anybody on this call can go on our website and sign up for future consultations.
00:18:44 So that's why we've condensed massive input from a highly inclusive group, including disadvantaged people.
00:18:52 We make an effort to go after, go beyond the digital divide to get input.
00:18:56 So nothing can nothing can touch that.
00:18:59 I just want to comment on that, because I know when when Greg and I were thinking about, you know, the the roadmap that we wanted to follow,
00:19:08 we saw there was so much confusion out there, lots of different standards, lots of different types of approaches.
00:19:13 I mean, over 250 certifications within travel.
00:19:18 It's mind blowing and mind numbing. And then we came across this criteria, the GSTC criteria for hotels, for tour operators and for destinations.
00:19:30 And they really opened our mind to the breadth of what sustainability really means.
00:19:37 And I think that's that's my plastic straw, is that I think when we use the word sustainability, most of us run to this idea of green, you know, of eco, of just focusing on the environment.
00:19:55 And those things that I brought up earlier, those observations, those things that are happening around us in our world, all of those play a role in sustainability.
00:20:06 If we continue to have, you know, police rip people of color out of their cars and execute them in front of cameras, you're not I'm sorry, you're not going to live in a sustainable world.
00:20:21 That community will not sustain itself.
00:20:23 So there's, I think it's our opportunity and our challenge to really help customers, purchasers of travel, travel advisors, understand that sustainability covers such a breadth, you know, from not only taking care of the planet, but taking care of the communities, taking care of your employees.
00:20:47 And so I just think GSTC has done a really phenomenal job of helping to create a roadmap for all of us to follow there.
00:20:55 Yeah, and I think, Joe, I think in the industry, we're finally wrapping our heads around that it is more than environmental, right? But I think on the consumer level, we haven't.
00:21:03 Right. So I think, you know, making sure the environmental, economic, social, all of those aspects are how we're selling and talking to consumers of travel, like you said.
00:21:13 Can I just quick add something there?
00:21:15 Yeah, yeah, please.
00:21:16 So people have said to me in the last year and a half, why don't you put health safety in the criteria?
00:21:21 Why don't you put dignity, equity, inclusiveness in the criteria?
00:21:24 And it's like, ding, ding, ding, they're all there.
00:21:26 It's all there. Just read them.
00:21:28 Social elements are in the criteria.
00:21:30 Cultural elements. We followed that 2005 UNEP and UNWTO definition and use that as our platform to have four pillars of sustainability.
00:21:40 It's all there, a holistic approach.
00:21:43 Can I just jump in for a second on this because I love the fact that Randy's on this call and I was digging into Afar before and getting prepared for here and looking at your principle of helping travelers get deeper and richer and more fulfilling in their
00:21:57 experiences of travel. And Randy said he said something really important and one thing I love about the fact that again you're stopping and having an hour spent talking about what is sustainability.
00:22:07 And Joe said rightly, spiritual sustainability is part of how we create a better future. It's not just economic, social, cultural, environmental, it's ethical sustainability.
00:22:18 You're absolutely right. I just want to rewind those slightly because if there's one thing Mother Nature has taught us this last year by grounding us and that's 4 billion travelers by air and 16,000 commercial flights at the peak of the pandemic.
00:22:33 It's the importance of aviation, and I want to go back to something Randy said, we cannot stop aviation. Our issue is not addiction to aviation, our issue is addiction to carbon emissions.
00:22:47 And that's the difference. Because if we stop aviation, a it's travel and it's trade. So if we want to have avocados on our dinner tables in London, and December, we need to recognize that the important thing is that the aviation industry,
00:23:03 we've got 60 plus million jobs if we ground those flights so I've always with this whole thing about flight shaming. It's always been my, especially as a diplomat has been my Achilles heel, because we need to separate the two without aviation, we are going
00:23:18 to economically, socially, culturally and environmentally do damage.
00:23:23 If we don't invest which the aviation industry is doing heavily into green investments around carbon emissions and replacement, then we're in trouble. And that's why they've made commitments towards 2030 and 2050.
00:23:37 And I think we're clear that when we look at developing the future of tourism in a way that is genuinely sustainable, a critical part of that is making sure that significant investment goes into sustainable aviation.
00:23:51 Because if you look at island states around the world. If you look at destinations, they don't exist without aviation so aviation is our primary artery destinations around the world are all opening up their borders creating vaccination certificates, but until
00:24:07 the flights are reopened travelers can't get there. That's just the reality. So I just want to make sure that we don't make aviation, a part of the problem it's part of the solution.
00:24:19 It's the emissions that are the problem so I just wanted to see that. Definitely. And that's actually a great, I wanted to throw it to Shannon now because it reminds me that, you know, the travel corporation you have 42 brands underneath you and you announced
00:24:33 last week that you're going to be carbon neutral by 2030, but as part of that you know as Anita said with the carbon emissions and the airlines.
00:24:40 You've invested in to carbon removal projects, can you talk about that and why you're investing in that technology which is so important. Yeah, sure. There's, there's two things I just wanted to add to what Anita was just saying, because I wholeheartedly
00:24:55 and there's a couple questions that I saw come through.
00:25:00 I think the trouble is with sustainability and the consumer is they think a very tactical approach so they think I'll avoid my straw and I'm doing my thing. But I think it's, that's dangerous, because what we need is a full systems approach to systemic transitions.
00:25:17 And we need to be not to see and encourage and be encouraged by aviation transitioning to disabled aviation fuel and other technologies that are out there.
00:25:29 You know, that's doing everybody a great great great disservice so I think it's just important not to hone in on one soapbox, if you will, but but look at what needs to happen within the system that we all live in.
00:25:42 Yes.
00:25:44 I think that's, that's critical.
00:25:46 With respect to your question though the carbon removal projects that we've announced so we put out last week, a climate action plan, it's a five point plan that addresses the way in which we will reduce as we transition towards a low carbon economy
00:26:01 and I say we buy all of our multiple offices are are all of our red carnation hotels all of our ships so we are a big machine.
00:26:11 So, we are, we have been measuring our carbon footprint for quite a long time, our own assets and that on our trips through tools that we have built.
00:26:21 And we are working on reduction so all red carnation hotels property will be run on renewables by the close of the year, we have our wonderful Keidra in Botswana that's just launched.
00:26:32 And we run on about, I believe it's 85% solar, so we're employing a tactical approach to reducing our carbon emissions.
00:26:43 We are employing some offsets, however offsets are an interim solution for us with offsets are effectively paying somebody else to avoid the emissions that you're going to employ.
00:26:53 So it's a topic of great debate certainly everyone has very heated opinions on what to do, my opinion is that if we do nothing, then we're in the wrong.
00:27:03 So, let's start there. However, carbon removal is really interesting, it's, there's there's there's multiple new technologies coming up in it effectively pulls carbon out of the atmosphere and stores it permanently, which to me is very, very, very exciting
00:27:20 because the reality is the world is not just going to stop producing the amount of carbon that we've all grown accustomed to, in order to support our lives, rightly or wrongly.
00:27:29 So by removing it from the atmosphere we have a real opportunity. The two projects we're supporting our US based not for profits, one is Project Vesta, and their pilot project is in Hawaii, and they're using olivine, which is a volcanic mineral.
00:27:45 They're expediting the national natural process of the waves to crush the olivine and they're spreading it on the seashell.
00:27:53 It then enhances the ocean's capability to capture carbon, which it does so permanently. So they reckon if their solution is successful and it's based on 30 years of science, were they to put it on 2% of the sea floor, that would pull the entirety
00:28:10 of carbon emissions per annum out of the atmosphere. So that's, even if they're a little bit right, and I, I'm confident that they're quite right. It's really exciting.
00:28:20 The other project is Green Wave, based out of the Northeast run by a fellow Newfoundlander, interestingly, and it's kelp farming, and they're using kelp from their farms to enhance the soil capability or the ability of regenerative farms to sequester carbon
00:28:38 without the harmful nitrous oxide byproduct.
00:28:42 Wow.
00:28:43 I know it's a lot happening.
00:28:46 What's the other bottle you told me about, by the way, when we talked?
00:28:50 Yeah, Lark.
00:28:52 Lark.
00:28:53 Everyone should know about this.
00:28:54 Lark is, it's a, it's, it uses UV to filter your water. So I, just before COVID hit was sort of, they're not cheap, so I was purchasing them for the families so we can be fine when my kids always seem to need water somewhere.
00:29:10 LARQ.
00:29:12 LARQ.
00:29:13 Amazing. Well, Randy, I wanted to ask you specifically about the supply chain, which of course, Shannon, all of us on this call are involved with, but it can actually be a significant part of the cultural experience as well.
00:29:25 But what can we be doing and thinking about when it comes to making the supply chain for travel companies more sustainable?
00:29:33 Yeah, I think the supply chain is extremely important because travelers, market research shows globally that travelers are more and more concerned with sustainability, but yet at point of purchase they hardly act, you know, because I think, let's face it, you know, when we all buy travel we're thinking price, we're thinking what's kind of the product, the destination, the hotel that speaks to my self identity.
00:29:54 And then just, you know, when Joe was talking about the breadth and the holistic element of sustainability, it's hard to balance all these things. I really think the, I think the traveler is counting on the businesses to do the right thing.
00:30:08 Businesses don't want regulations. So I think business just needs to get a whole lot better. And I think that supply chain development is really a key piece to it because when you're contracting the services of other people, you know, a tour operator, a corporate travel division, when they're contracting hotels, hotels can, there's a lot they can do to operate more sustainably.
00:30:29 The land transport provider can choose hybrids and electric vehicles or the cost of EVs have come down dramatically. And so, you know, we need those kinds of targets, you know, internally in a business to say four years from now we're only going to use clean energy buses.
00:30:48 And if you put the word out to your supply chain that, you know, we're going to give you time to transition, you know, it'd be unreasonable to give an expectation to say we need this immediately. You work with your suppliers, you set meaningful targets.
00:31:02 And you give preferential contracting in the bidding process to say, you know, we want our land transport greener. We want our hotels greener. And we have the power to make everything on land far greener. As challenging as the aviation thing is, and I wish we could get to cleaner energy aviation sooner, we'll get there.
00:31:21 But we're not going to get there as quick as any of us would like. But we're there. The technology supports everything we do on land to be clean and green today.
00:31:32 But we got to push it. And again, I just don't think we can put the onus on the traveler because I'm happy to see that more travelers are enlightened now than a year and a half ago before the pandemic.
00:31:44 But is the massive travelers, the massive society suddenly that enlightened? I rather doubt it. And I think that businesses have to just get very serious.
00:31:54 It's not recycling in their own office. It's who are they contracting with? And this is where, you know, we've had long discussions, Joe and Greg and I, about supply chain development because we've got a very rigorous system in place.
00:32:06 And I think we need to let the markets know that TUI Group, one of the largest travel companies in the world, is using Royal Caribbean at the ports and destinations.
00:32:13 They're doing preferential contracting to land operators at the ports based on MSC Cruises has followed that and the whole CLIA movement.
00:32:20 We're kind of doing that at ports, all aside from whatever other issues exist and ships.
00:32:27 But I think that in supply chain development, you set targets, you can do it. All volunteer operators can set targets.
00:32:34 We're going to have X number of hotels properly certified, not just certified, well certified.
00:32:40 Because that's a whole issue, too, of just the quality of certification is quite uneven. And that's an area we're working on.
00:32:45 So, yeah, supply chain development, I think, is huge.
00:32:48 And I'm going to ask you all at the very end for your favorite resources. But now I did want to mention there's a TED Talk.
00:32:53 Is that his name? If you see. Yeah.
00:32:57 This is the L.A.Y. Yeah. It's talked about just how, you know, how to.
00:33:02 It's just fascinating. I think 18 and a half minutes. Well worth your time.
00:33:05 That talks about the supply chain in a very impactful way.
00:33:09 And I turned to any of it because we're doing that in tourism.
00:33:13 What WWF has done successfully for a quarter of a century and other sectors in the Jason Clay discussion is how they do it on biodiversity.
00:33:20 But it lays out their model. Yeah, we're applying that. And that's what many of you know, WWF, especially USA and Germany chapters are working on these issues and working with us on these issues.
00:33:33 Yeah, I need to just quickly, if I can ask, building on what Randy said, which is so important, and it goes to a word that Shannon used earlier, which was systemic, because what we found as well is that there are interdependencies that must be recognized now.
00:33:49 With governments opening up to domestic tourism and regional, it's not about the tourists, it's about supply chains, because when you open up tourism, they're all the direct and indirect supply chains and sorry, Shannon, I'm going to potentially make you go a little
00:34:01 bit pink. Two of the people that have really touched my heart in this last, even before COVID.
00:34:08 One of the dangers of working in sustainability is people don't like leaving, not just a carbon footprint but an ego footprint, and Shannon and Brett Tolman suffer from that very badly.
00:34:19 No credit for what they've done, but what's been amazing is that tourism was growing so quickly, the concept of sustainability was a choice, we'll get to it when we have time, we're growing, we're growing, we're growing, exactly as Randy was setting about
00:34:32 the cruise, etc. And Mother Nature is like, okay, you want time out to think about these things, you're grounded, and we've been grounded for a year.
00:34:40 And what I found is that there's a significant difference between sustainability initiatives and interventions, and even before COVID-19, Travel Corporation, which I've had the blessing of working with the Tolman family for over a decade and with
00:34:55 the industry Treadwright, they imposed interventions to their supply chains before COVID-19, making it very clear when it came to water bottles, carbon emissions, the whole situation.
00:35:07 And that was imposed on their supply chains, which was brilliant because it's basically the beauty as Randy says is that if we want business to do it, why? Because they offer scale, a scale which the individual traveler cannot.
00:35:22 What was fascinating was two nights ago, when Brett was on stage at the WTTC summit on a sustainability panel and Shannon I'm sure you saw this, and it's all online still so please I strongly encourage people to watch it.
00:35:34 It was fascinating, he was in his zone, because everyone's talking about what they're going to do when the world opens up, what they're going to do. And here's Brett just, we've done this, we've done this, we've done this across all of the businesses.
00:35:47 And it's almost he had this great energy about him of, why are you people talking about what you're going to do? Just do it. And he's always had that and then he turns to Shannon to just make it happen. I don't know how you do that Shannon.
00:36:01 The point being that when it comes to sustainability, this is not about initiatives that we weave into our business. These are interventions that we're going to define our business going forward.
00:36:14 And exactly as Randy said, this is something travelers are going to be demanding. This is not an additional what it was pre COVID, I will consider responsible businesses more important. No, no, this is now an expectation.
00:36:28 So it's we as the industry that needs to readjust to the mindset of the travelers and the travel world, or we are going to lose out significantly but I love what what's been done with Trav Corporation and Treadwright, because they've been walking the talk
00:36:45 before people even started talking.
00:36:48 Absolutely. On their website. I love it. It says we have a plan. So, and Joe I wanted to ask you with what Anita said, I mean, can you talk a little bit more about why sustainable travelers are so important because I know you have some background on that.
00:37:03 Yeah, I mean you know it's interesting I mean, just even the stat that we saw coming out of the Economic Times and Porter Novelli study from 2020, you know, 79% of consumers are changing their purchase preferences, based on social responsibility, inclusiveness,
00:37:22 and environmental impact. So we're seeing that, you know, at the broad side of things.
00:37:29 But, you know, at a far we do focus on the modern traveler you know conscious discerning global citizen travelers that really seek out experiences that align with their values.
00:37:41 I think that's a big part of what we're trying to do is make sure that we're giving them information and inspiration that allows them to make purchase decisions that align with the things that we believe in.
00:37:54 We've been doing a lot of research this year really trying to understand the mindset and it's really helped us understand what modern travelers are looking for how they want to travel, what they want to prioritize what they expect from businesses and tourism
00:38:11 and these are travelers that we see are about three years ahead of the mainstream, so we're able to put our fingers on the pulse of the future by listening to this group of the world's, you know, best travelers, and we're seeing several things.
00:38:28 One, you know, they're actively planning travel more than others. They're actively spending more on the travel that they're going to be doing and doing than others.
00:38:39 And they're, they're louder, they're more influential, they're influencing their peer groups more than other types of travelers. So, this is a mindset it's an approach.
00:38:52 I think it's one that is going to be extremely important for the industry to listen to. One, because this is a wave that's only going to continue to get bigger and more powerful as younger generations increase their spending power and increase their disposable income.
00:39:10 It's also such an opportunity is, you know, we've lost a lot of great people in travel in the last 15 months. We've seen, you know, flight to other industries because travel is just shut down. We're now at a period, even before COVID, you talk to CEOs and major companies in our industry
00:39:30 and they're scared that they're not going to be able to hire enough people to fill the positions that they need. That's even, that's even stronger now. And so, in order to be able to attract the right people back to our industry, these are the, these are the things they're looking for too.
00:39:47 Young, bright, creative minds want purpose-driven businesses that believe in making the world a better place by strengthening the communities where they're working, playing, and living and taking care of the planet.
00:40:01 So that's, so it's on both sides, right? It's attracting the right consumers and the consumers that we want in our destinations because the more the right travelers that we have in our destinations, the less we're going to hear about the shaming that's happening or local organizations saying, "No, no, no, we don't want these people here. No, no, no, we don't need a tourism board."
00:40:24 You know, all that stuff is just creating havoc for us. So it really is, like Shannon was saying, it's systemic, it's comprehensive, and, you know, we need to be thinking about all sides of it.
00:40:36 Well, and so, and with that, Joe, you're so right, but I wanted to ask you, Shannon, you know, getting very specific, how does a hotel or a tour company like yourself, how do you, when you're planning, let's say, a local experience, how do you make sure that it isn't voyeuristic or contrived, right?
00:40:53 That's a great question. I am also just going to add one thought to it. I think Joe just gave a really beautiful business case, and thank you for that, but, and you say about all sides, and I would agree. So there's sort of, you know, consumer demand, need to attract quality, young, diverse talent, but let's not forget that there's also the health and sort of
00:41:21 happiness, if you will, of a destination. And I think that this is critical, and I don't, I don't, I don't, the business case for sustainability, that's another plastic straw for me. If you ask me to tell you the business case, I won't at this stage of my career, I'm just, I don't have it in me anymore, you should know it.
00:41:43 So I appreciate you doing that, Joe. But also, destinations, we also have to think about this as quality control. There's destinations that simply aren't going to be able to take tourists because of wildfires, because of all the things that are happening in result to our, you know, overuse of resources. And I think that when you do, and when you must look at the business case, travel cessation and the avoidance of future travel cessation, either globally or at a destination-specific level, also needs to be included in there, because that is,
00:42:12 you know, that needs to be a very strong business motivator. So consider, consider sustainability quality control, if you will, for lack of a better way to put it. I get, I get heated. This is my soapbox, the business case.
00:42:26 Yeah.
00:42:40 I mean, I think that's a great argument, because people just aren't there yet. You know, and you talk to either GMs or owners, and that's not where their head is. And one of our first editors said to us when we were creating Affar, he goes, Joe, you gotta walk people through a front door that they understand and feel comfortable with.
00:43:00 And so we figured out, Shannon, the best way to shift that, you know, and that's just something that's, I guess, you know, for all of us, how do we, how do we do that?
00:43:10 Yeah, it's fair. And I'm in a privileged position that I recognize that in, to my executive, it's not why, it's how. So, you know, perhaps, perhaps that's just my vantage point and that I should recognize the privilege of that.
00:43:27 But I also appreciate how. And I think that's, that's your question, Annie, how.
00:43:33 Yeah, how, how do you create experiences? How do you, I mean, your plan, you have 11 steps, like you're looking at the office, the offices to the local experiences, like how do you do that? Or how, what's a takeaway that people listening, they can do it in their own lives, kind of take what you're doing?
00:43:50 I think there's tons of takeaways. I think where we get, we get caught up is we see sustainability or responsibility or transformative or eco or regenerative or etc, etc, call it what you like, and our eyes glazed over.
00:44:04 And it's a real shame because what we don't see are the tactics. And I think if we had a tactics approach as tour operators and travel businesses, this would be much easier.
00:44:15 We would understand our impact, understand what's impacting us as a business and what we can do to positively affect change on that issue, be it food waste, biodiversity loss, you know, carbon emissions.
00:44:27 So if we looked at it as a tactic, tactical approach, reduce your food waste, employ AI to do such, then it's less terrifying, frankly, even if you just took a little bit of the elephant at the time.
00:44:39 And how do you, how do you use AI to tackle food waste?
00:44:43 We use a program called Winnow, currently employed at all of our London based properties, and it is a pretty cool waste bin.
00:44:54 And it measures the trash that you put in, you, whomever puts it in uses a little screen to identify exactly what those items are.
00:45:05 And it has a report so that you can help adjust your ordering. So it's helped us reduce food waste substantially, almost 50% in some cases.
00:45:13 And a lot of people don't know that food waste is a massive, massive contributor to climate change. So it's a tactic, and it's less terrifying than the worst.
00:45:23 Definitely. Well, Anita, will you?
00:45:26 Food waste is the third largest, food waste is the third largest contributor that you can identify after China and the United States economies.
00:45:32 Wow.
00:45:33 Think about that.
00:45:34 Food waste.
00:45:35 Is this not the magic of the conversation? Again, Annie and Joe, thank you for having the conversation.
00:45:42 It goes back to what Annie and I talked about, and Joe, you and I talked about in the past, is language. The biggest barrier to sustainability is the word sustainability, because it's firstly, it's very untouchable.
00:45:54 Secondly, it's become very judgmental. So exactly to Shannon's point, whether it's sustainable tourism or responsible or transformational or regenerative, it's become a badge, and it's become fashionable.
00:46:07 It's very much like vegan versus vegetarian versus pescatarian versus non, you know, eat protein, it's, it's become judgmental.
00:46:17 And so, it's, it's pushed people apart, rather than brought them together. I mean when Shannon talks about food waste and going through that process and I can technically see one of their hotels from where my flat is.
00:46:30 That's just good business sense to identify where do you need to order and what do you need to cut back on so that's just smart. And that's what I think is lovely that we take the word sustainable, and it's, it's not the Messiah.
00:46:43 It's just good common sense. And it's the same thing when it was, you know, the issue about over tourism, it's always about it's this and this and this over tourism is a consequence of two things.
00:46:54 Bad management, absolutely, but also bad manners. What the hell gave a tourist, any of us the right, just because we have a cell phone, a passport, a credit card and a ticket, the right to walk into someone else's home without knocking.
00:47:08 And that's where the humility we've had in the last year of recognizing the blessing of tourism and the impact of when all these little SMEs shut down. That's where the mute the word community has taken over a new definition, sustainability is gone into
00:47:24 the social and economic and spiritual realms that it didn't before. So that's where I always think one of the challenges of sustainability, we really over sophisticate this conversation, this is the stuff our parents taught us don't forget your manners, eat
00:47:39 everything on your plate, and be kind.
00:47:42 And I don't know how we lost that in the process.
00:47:46 Fascinating how we can just keep it kind of simple, even like I think about like the last year with COVID, you know, it's like, wash your hands, wear a mask, stay six feet away from people like just do those things we would be better off and it somehow we like to create
00:48:03 a bubble, you know, and pick apart little things but it's, it's being able to understand also the totality, the totality of costs and benefits like you mentioned about flying, you know, yeah, of course there is a cost to that, and we have to recognize that cost
00:48:23 is a cost that we still in 2021 have not been able to price in externalities for all the things like emissions and the like, we're not, but we also have to realize that by getting on that plane, we have an opportunity to really make a change or an impact in the place
00:48:41 so not only measuring the cost, but also understanding the impact so that we can have a conversation about the total, the net, you know, did that create a net positive benefit, did we try to minimize the costs, recognizing that we're going to incur that.
00:48:59 Did Harry and Megan flying the private jet, was the impact bigger? We talked about that.
00:49:04 Right. That's, um, I wanted to ask we had a question come in actually from our editor in chief would love to hear from the panelists about the potential of public private partnerships, because we have a number of DMOs listening in. Randy, would you like to open with that,
00:49:19 the potential of public private partnerships to make sustainability, more effective and impactful.
00:49:25 Well often when people talk about public private partnership they're talking about some kind of contractual relationship but I'd like to talk about something that we find very successful when the DMO and the public agency provides incentives for sustainability dangles
00:49:46 a carrot rather than a stick, you know we talk about the human psychology of reward is better than punishment.
00:49:54 We just little Costa Rica has had a hotel certification, sustainability certification scheme for quite a while it's very sophisticated program it has five tiers.
00:50:04 When a hotel goes up a tier on that they get a 20% discount on international promotion so to get their little piece of a booth that ITV Berlin or marketing or whatever.
00:50:16 And it's successful what a cool thing and it drives behavior so we advise governments, you know, we're doing a lot of that and by the way I have to say some encouraging news is that we're a little under sun underfunded NGO and we've been busier than ever
00:50:30 during the pandemic, because one positive that we've seen is that governments have taken the pause to do more planning and development on sustainability than ever before.
00:50:40 So that's, there's some hope in that regard, but that type of that type of program or the where the public sector is encouraging providing workshops to the private sector on not just why but how to operate more sustainably and then creating some
00:50:56 kind of reward mechanism and be very successful.
00:51:00 And Anita I mean I wanted to ask you, where are you getting the biggest pushback when you're advising at the country level.
00:51:06 You know when it comes to public private partnerships or other things. It's interesting and it's, it's an important question I appreciate your asking it the biggest pushback I get is when people refer to government and blame government and accused
00:51:22 of blaming government and that's why I keep saying that the one fundamental difference of this crisis compared to anything we've gone through in our generation, aside from the fact that it's completely democratic.
00:51:33 It's, it doesn't care about geography boundaries age income religion nothing. It's invisible. And so it's hit people at a primal level. And so it's not about a government official.
00:51:45 It's about everyone that's human, whether they're leaving a country or they're leading a business, everyone is human. And what's been remarkable and that's why my business has been bursting this year simply from an advising point of view, everyone has been
00:51:58 scared. Mother Nature gave us a huge fright with the first wave, the second, third and fourth waves, in addition to the fact that the virus is mutating and people don't understand the science which is a pity is the fact that it's a lot of its negligence exactly what
00:52:12 we've been doing is keep your hands clean put your mask on and keep a distance and we'll be able to get through this. The biggest challenge I'm finding when it comes to government to your point, and the pushback is when it's looked at for government
00:52:25 to solve it. One of the silver linings of this entire crisis has been the fact that everyone recognizes government can't fix this business can't fix this. Everyone has to fix this together.
00:52:36 This is the most cooperative collaborative creative time we've ever seen in our careers, where people are coming together to find solutions, because the interdependencies are clear.
00:52:47 So what I often find is the starting point is people need to get angry they need to vent, and they'll blame government, but government's human, and everyone is doing the best they can.
00:52:57 So, blow off the steam one needs to, but then please come back and sit around the table again so we can start having the conversations to move us all forward, because unless everyone gets through this.
00:53:08 No one gets through this. Yes, I have a little steam I need to blow off on this because I just saw this news, the other day and it was really disappointing to me.
00:53:19 We were talking a little bit about Canada, before 10 he started coming on to the call and being a little bit slow on the vaccination side but I just saw that Canada just released their, their budget.
00:53:31 And we know that indigenous tourism in Canada has been a huge focus it's where the tourism board has put a lot of time and energy.
00:53:41 And indigenous tourism according to the, you know, according to ITAC, which is the Indigenous Tourism Association of Canada and Keith Henry, see, talk to him and you know that those communities have been completely devastated by the lack of travel, the lack of
00:53:57 dollars coming in.
00:53:59 They asked for $60 million to get them back on their feet.
00:54:06 And the Canadian government came back and granted them two and a half million dollars.
00:54:12 Like these kinds of things like where is that disconnect you know and that to me just it does it drives it drives me a little nuts. When you've got a tourism board that is completely focused on this spends a lot of time trying to do this, but then you've
00:54:26 got a government that for some reason has made a decision to fund a fraction of a percent of what really needs to be done to help get these people back on their feet and where, what is that you know and how do we think about that.
00:54:42 I'm delighted you've blown off that steam you've hit something really important which actually builds on part two of the question that Annie asked me.
00:54:51 We are not dealing with the travel and tourism crisis here, we are not dealing with an economic crisis we have a healthcare and humanitarian crisis. And unless that is dealt with every single part of the economy, including travel and tourism is going to suffer.
00:55:05 So, what you said was so important show in terms of, you know, they reduce the budget dramatically. Where did the money go to then that wasn't going to go to tourism, because the government's point of view is unless they contain the virus.
00:55:20 Every industry is going to be brought to its knees for the longer. So you're absolutely right and that's where what governments need to do is be extremely transparent right now in.
00:55:30 And we're not giving you this, it's because it's going there right at the beginning of this crisis the UNWTO, we stepped back and said, who and I care we're going to stand beside you, you take the lead right now.
00:55:44 And when it's safe to open up, then we're going to start pushing the restart of tourism and we kept the whole travel tomorrow initiative going, because it wasn't about tourism between March and June July last year.
00:55:57 So you're absolutely right and vocalizing your question. If the money is taken away and it's not explained why absolutely people should be furious, but when it is explained, we are taking that money away because right now we need vaccines distribution.
00:56:11 We need to take care of the indigenous people before and their health, before we take care of their visitation that you're absolutely right and that's why the communication needs to be much more open and transparent.
00:56:25 Sounds like they need to call you Anita. Yeah.
00:56:30 We only have a few minutes I wanted to kind of end with two questions I'll kind of go around Shannon I'll start with you. What resources you recommend for people who are curious and want to learn more and then also what is one thing that we can do in our own lives
00:56:43 today or tomorrow to make a difference.
00:56:48 You can deal with your kitchen in your own lives and compost and and and gut that with all the plastics that you purchase from your food and teach your kids about it so that they lecture people in the grocery store a lot like my obnoxious five year old does that you can do
00:57:05 at home and feel really good about it. Great resources. There is a wealth.
00:57:12 South Pole is our offset provider. If you're interested in offsets I would take a look at that.
00:57:20 I would take a look at Project Vesta and Green Wave to be very inspired by, you know, new technology, I would look at Tomorrow's Air another you know company that's trying to make carbon capture attainable for the average average traveler and small tour operator.
00:57:38 I don't know, send me an email, there's there's there's a ton of resources out there and I've got a wonderful team so if it doesn't work for us that doesn't mean it doesn't work and I'd be happy to share.
00:57:49 Thank you so much, Randy What about you.
00:57:54 Yeah, like what Shannon said about you know we shouldn't be separating travel and tourism for the rest of our lives, the whole planet's in trouble we have to everything we do in our whole, you know, people always ask me why should tourism be sustainable I said
00:58:06 because everything we do has to be sustainable.
00:58:09 You know, so we have to change the thinking and we have to take some personal responsibility. I would say to travelers speak up ask questions.
00:58:17 I think the resistance we get about some people in the travel industry saying, well there's not a business case, go back to Shannon's frustration I which I share.
00:58:27 Well, quickly on that. There's two things are missing about the lack of business case, well, there's many things are missing they can save money by making energy more efficiency and a whole lot of other things.
00:58:39 As I said earlier, the market research shows that more and more people care, they may not act at point of purchase, but it's not becoming a satisfaction level satisfaction that the quality of the experience now has sustainability, more and more in it,
00:58:53 people are now complaining more about when I get there, it's not sustainable and another thing that's really being missed.
00:59:00 People under the age of 35, or any culture on this planet is far more concerned I predict a tremendous tipping point, there's going to be a wave of all those 65 year old owners of businesses that say nobody's asked me for it.
00:59:14 Well, they don't ask at point of purchase but they care when they get there increasingly, the market research says that, and everybody under 35 or 40 is tuned into it so you're going to wake up one morning seven years from now or seven months from now,
00:59:27 and you're going to wake up and you're going to see a wave. And I think that people travelers have just been too quiet, they should ask, you know, train yourself to ask at point of purchase.
00:59:36 Yeah, what are you doing a sustainability read the fine print read the labels, read the labels in the supermarket like Shannon said but read the labels on the website of what the travel providers are doing more people ask the more it changes right like organic
00:59:49 food or rice cauliflower, things like that. I need to ask nicely. Yeah.
00:59:56 So, what are your resources and what we can do today, resources, and I keep it pretty simple for myself for travel and tourism UNW to and WTC no question about it in terms of aviation, a tag is fantastic as they translate aviation into the benefits
01:00:13 exactly as is being said by Joe trade and travel.
01:00:16 In terms of consumer changes in mindset including and travel and tourism and beyond that your monitor is outstanding.
01:00:24 They I use them as a primary resource and the world economic forum in terms of country competitiveness, so I try to keep it really simple and use those as my common basis.
01:00:34 So primary resources and an SDR obviously for hotel and forward keys for searches.
01:00:40 What can we do now just be grateful wastage happens when we take things for granted, just be grateful, whether it's what we do what we eat what we wear how we live where we go.
01:00:51 It's a blessing it's not a right.
01:00:55 And Joe What about you and then we'll close this up. I mean to answer the second question first I think it is about empowering ourselves through education, you know, taking the steps to educate ourselves first.
01:01:09 I took the GST CST T p for 20 course, this past year on sustainability, I thought that was excellent. I recommend people who are curious about it should invest the four weeks to do it.
01:01:23 I think from there, that was a great jumping off point into a lot of different places for me but other books that I thought were really good in terms of just changing and shifting my paradigm donut economics.
01:01:37 I think the book, anything by Danelle Meadows, you know limits to growth, her approach to systems thinking, I think is, is also great Schumacher small is beautiful.
01:01:49 Another one of just helping us understand the mindset that we've been talking about today. We just came out with our next issue of afar we've listed all of our new Vanguard in there and these are people that are using their work to make travel, a force
01:02:05 of a lot of great things with the new the new Vanguard.
01:02:12 And, you know, become a become a member of GST see that's an easy way to stay plugged in.
01:02:20 It's, it's not expensive they make it very inclusive. And it's just an easy way to stay plugged in and travel to travel corporation hotels like Ashford Castle.
01:02:32 Yes, please. Yes, please. Yes. Okay, thank you guys so much I think I got to 20% of the questions but really appreciate your time and Randy go to bed and yeah, we'll see you next time.
01:02:43 Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you.