Step into the world of Amy Porterfield, a New York Times Bestselling author, to uncover her career journey, entrepreneurship wisdom, and apprehensions about AI. Learn about the shifting dynamics of branding, and brace for a technologically advanced business era.
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00:00 And where I'm concerned is I see a lot of people using it for content creation,
00:04 because that's my students, and they're churning out vanilla,
00:08 watered-down content that is void of emotion and stories and grit and experiences.
00:15 Welcome to Beyond Unstoppable,
00:18 the podcast that explores the intersection of biology,
00:21 psychology, and technology.
00:23 Here is your host, Ben Angel.
00:25 Today, we're honored to have Amy Porterfield join us.
00:28 A true trailblazer and New York Times best-selling author,
00:32 with over 55 million podcast downloads,
00:36 Amy's journey has inspired millions worldwide,
00:39 including my own, to give their two weeks notice.
00:42 During this fascinating conversation,
00:44 Amy shares her courageous decision to leave her corporate job,
00:48 the emotional challenges that followed,
00:50 and a burning passion to help people design their lives.
00:53 We also explore the intriguing world of artificial intelligence,
00:57 as Amy shares her thoughts on its impact on business,
01:01 creativity, and human interaction.
01:03 And if you like what you hear, please give us a rating and review.
01:06 Your support means the world to us,
01:09 and helps us reach more listeners when we're ready to become unstoppable.
01:13 This episode is brought to you by Ben Angel's new book,
01:16 The Wolf Is At The Door,
01:17 How to Survive and Thrive in an AI-Driven World,
01:20 presented by Entrepreneur.
01:22 Get an exclusive sneak peek and pre-order at thewolfbookhub.com.
01:26 Amy Porterfield, it is such a pleasure to meet you.
01:29 I have followed you since your very early days
01:33 when you first launched Facebook advertising.
01:36 Wow, that was a long time ago.
01:39 Ben, I'm so glad to be here with you.
01:40 I've been looking forward to this.
01:42 Thank you. I actually saw an interview you did with Dr. Phil just the other day,
01:47 and I noticed in the interview you mentioned that
01:50 when you were doing your earlier videos,
01:52 you said that they were cringeworthy.
01:54 I was surprised by that.
01:56 Yes, I hate looking at those videos.
01:59 There's a few on YouTube.
02:00 Funny you should bring this up.
02:01 Back in the days, I've been doing this for 14 years,
02:04 and early, early on in my first year or two,
02:08 for some reason in every video, I'm whispering.
02:11 Like, "Hi, I'm Amy Porterfield."
02:13 I'm thinking, "Who do I think I am?
02:15 I'm like a meditation teacher or something."
02:17 So I didn't have a lot of personality.
02:19 The background was terrible.
02:20 The lighting was terrible.
02:21 But the greatest thing is I just got started,
02:24 which is how it got me to here today.
02:26 Do you want to know?
02:27 I saw something completely different than what you were experiencing.
02:32 Really?
02:32 Because I think it was maybe a year prior,
02:35 I'd started launching my own online programs and courses.
02:40 And I'd done well for my email list, but I was looking to scale up,
02:43 and I kept on coming across all of these social media,
02:47 male, ego-dripping, driven people speaking in this space,
02:53 and we were trying to all figure out social media marketing, Facebook ads.
02:57 And when I saw your videos, I thought you came across and still do.
03:02 It's so unbelievably endearing.
03:04 Oh, thank you.
03:06 That's a huge compliment coming from you.
03:08 Well, that's a great reframe for me,
03:10 so that I don't have to cringe every time I see the videos.
03:13 No, I have my own cringe-worthy videos from that exact same time period.
03:19 So it's all good.
03:21 Now, congratulations on your brand new book, Two Weeks Notice.
03:25 I've waited almost 10 years for you to write a book.
03:28 Oh, I've waited that.
03:31 Yes, finally.
03:32 It's finally out in the world.
03:34 Reflecting on your career over the past 10 years,
03:37 how did you feel before doing an interview with Dr. Phil?
03:42 What was that experience like for you?
03:45 How I felt before all of that came about?
03:47 Before the Dr. Phil interview in particular,
03:50 because you've gone from Facebook ads to obviously social media marketing
03:56 to getting to this point where you're being interviewed
04:00 by one person who's connected to Oprah.
04:02 Yeah, I know, right?
04:03 That was my like, "Whoa, this is a big deal" kind of moment.
04:08 So I look back sometimes where I'm at now,
04:11 and I look back and think, never in a million years
04:14 would I have guessed that this was my business or this was my life.
04:18 All I wanted to do 14 years ago was to replace my nine to five salary.
04:23 I left a job with Tony Robbins, and all I wanted to do
04:26 was make as much money, which was around $160,000, the next year on my own.
04:31 Little did I know that I'd be able to build a multimillion dollar empire,
04:35 but also have the kind of impact that I've been able to have
04:39 with what I'm doing today.
04:41 And anyone listening that's just starting out,
04:43 I want to point out that what I did 14 years ago,
04:46 I taught Facebook marketing, I had a Facebook ads course,
04:49 is dramatically different than what I have today.
04:52 So how you start is not necessarily how it's going to look 14 years later,
04:57 and that's a beautiful thing, so let yourself just get started.
05:01 But yeah, I look back and I think, "I can't even believe this is my business."
05:04 I feel very fortunate.
05:06 I think about, I reflect on your career.
05:08 I'm currently on chapter 10 of my brand new book,
05:11 and yesterday I was writing it,
05:14 and I realized that you popped up around the same time
05:17 that I was launching a book called "Flee 9 to 5"
05:21 around content creation and online programs.
05:25 And the trajectory that you put me on
05:29 has helped me to sell over 80,000 copies of my book, "Unstoppable,"
05:33 and have over 20,000 students in my program.
05:35 So I am profoundly grateful.
05:38 That means the world to me.
05:40 I was never expecting you to say something like that.
05:42 If I could just be a tiny part in your amazing success, I'm honored.
05:46 So, wow, that's really special.
05:48 Tell me about how did you find the courage
05:51 to give your two weeks notice at the time?
05:55 You know, I had been in corporate since the day I left college,
05:57 and I was a corporate yes girl.
05:59 Like, I was really good about climbing the corporate ladder,
06:02 getting the awards and the rewards and the salary increases and promotions.
06:07 I was all about it. I'm a go-getter by nature.
06:10 And so I never really thought about being an entrepreneur.
06:13 And that word was never thrown around in my family.
06:16 My dad's a blue-collar guy. He's a firefighter.
06:18 My mom's a hairstylist, middle class.
06:20 Like, that's all I knew.
06:22 However, I found myself when I was still working for Tony,
06:25 where he brought in a bunch of online business owners,
06:28 and they started to talk about their businesses.
06:31 And I didn't know who these guys were.
06:33 They were big deals. I didn't realize it.
06:35 And I didn't really know how they were doing it,
06:37 but all I heard was freedom.
06:39 I wanted freedom more than anything,
06:41 and I didn't even realize I didn't have it until that moment.
06:44 I genuinely wanted to work when I wanted, where I wanted, how I wanted.
06:49 And I knew in a 9-to-5 job, as a female especially,
06:52 it always hit a glass ceiling, but also I would never be free.
06:56 And so that was like the moment that I thought,
06:58 "I got to figure something out."
07:00 Had no idea what I was going to do or how I was going to do it,
07:03 but I was going to figure it out.
07:05 And so that desire for freedom
07:07 and just wanting something different in my life is what propelled me.
07:11 I didn't have the confidence to do it,
07:13 but I did find the courage to figure it out.
07:15 And it took about a good year from that meeting
07:18 to the day I drove out of the San Diego offices
07:20 in my little white car filled with boxes,
07:23 thinking, "Here we go."
07:24 What was it reflecting back on that car ride specifically?
07:29 Was it a mix of emotions of, "Oh my God, I'm so excited," but terrified?
07:34 Oh, absolutely. Probably more terrifying.
07:36 It's funny, the minute I drove out, I could remember this like it was yesterday.
07:40 The minute I drove out of the parking lot,
07:42 the Beatles song, "Here Comes the Sun," came on the radio.
07:46 And I thought, "This has to be a sign.
07:48 This is absolutely going to be amazing."
07:50 But then the next voice in my head was,
07:52 "Holy cow, what have you just done?
07:54 You just let go of a salary, insurance, benefits, all the good stuff.
07:58 What are you doing?"
07:59 And I genuinely didn't know how to figure it out.
08:03 I had to just like take a chance.
08:05 But again, it was that desire for freedom that even though I was terrified,
08:09 I was going to do it.
08:11 What is the biggest takeaway that you want people to get from your book?
08:16 Because I feel, I'm not sure if you realize it yet, and I'm curious to find out,
08:21 but even though obviously this book was wrapped up
08:24 before this whole artificial intelligence exploded,
08:29 looking at it, I feel like it's written for this particular moment in time
08:35 where I'm speaking to a lot of 20-year-olds that I'm meeting lately
08:40 that are actively looking at brand new jobs or becoming an entrepreneur
08:46 because their companies are introducing AI
08:49 and they can see that the writing is on the wall for them in the next six months.
08:53 Okay, that's such a great point.
08:55 I actually never even looked at it like that.
08:57 But if I could usher people into building their own businesses to protect themselves,
09:02 I'm all about it.
09:03 I think about why I wrote the book and who the book's for.
09:08 And my ultimate goal is to make sure that people create a business and a life
09:13 by their own design, like on their terms.
09:16 And that's a really big mission,
09:19 knowing that so many of us are doing things for other people.
09:23 We're in jobs for other people.
09:25 We're taking care of our families.
09:27 We're not necessarily focused on what do we want, what do we desire.
09:31 And I really want to encourage people to do so.
09:33 The book was written for everyone.
09:35 I think it definitely has a slant for females and female entrepreneurs.
09:39 And they have a special place in my heart, obviously, being one.
09:43 But I know how hard it is to get out from under that and go out on your own
09:47 and actually believe that you can do it.
09:50 The book is meant to help more people realize
09:52 you are absolutely capable of figuring this out.
09:56 I tell my own story, and if I could do it, they can do it.
09:59 But also I tell a lot of stories of other people who have ventured out,
10:03 never ever guessing this would work for them, but they wanted it bad enough.
10:07 So I'm hoping it gives people a lot of inspiration and hope
10:10 that they can design a life by their own design.
10:14 And I think your impact, I can imagine on females.
10:19 One of my close friends, Rosalyn, I mentioned to her yesterday
10:23 that I was interviewing you.
10:25 She lit up like a Christmas tree.
10:26 I think she's around 27 years old.
10:29 You haven't just impacted your generation.
10:33 Yeah, that's what I always think.
10:35 Yeah, just my generation.
10:36 I'm seeing the younger ones that are seeing that inspiration in you.
10:40 And I think you've had a profound impact because at the time,
10:45 like I said earlier, when social media marketing was coming out,
10:49 it was very male driven.
10:52 And we had, of course, Mari Smith, who I interviewed a few weeks ago,
10:56 who was incredible, but we also had you.
10:58 Do you kind of acknowledge the impact that you've had
11:03 on females through this journey?
11:05 When you put it like that, I feel like I probably have,
11:08 and I'm really proud of it.
11:10 It's funny you bring up Mari, though.
11:11 Mari was one of my very first mentors, and I took her courses.
11:16 I was in her workshops, and she taught me all about Facebook marketing.
11:19 And then I went out on my own and built a Facebook marketing business.
11:23 So I love that I can identify the women.
11:26 There weren't many at the time.
11:28 14 years ago, there were like two or three that I could name
11:31 that I really felt like I could trust, and they were doing big things.
11:35 But Mari was one of them.
11:36 But thinking that she inspired me and that I could inspire others
11:41 as a 27-year-old when I'm in my 40s, I love that.
11:45 And I do think that that is my mission.
11:47 Real quick, I want to tell you a story.
11:49 I did a podcast years ago where I talked about making my first million.
11:53 I had my first million-dollar launch, and I talked about it on my podcast.
11:58 And there was a woman that was listening,
12:01 and at the time, she had made, I think, $300,000 with her products.
12:06 And she heard me say a million, and she's like, "Wait a second.
12:10 I can make a million dollars?
12:12 This chick just made a million dollars.
12:15 I could do that as well?"
12:17 And she went on to make a whole lot more millions.
12:20 Her business made $50 million last year.
12:23 That's more than what my business did.
12:25 And she's a friend of mine now, but she always says,
12:27 "Amy, if I didn't hear you say it,
12:29 I don't know if I would have realized it was possible."
12:32 And that's when I realized how important it is to share our journey,
12:35 the good, bad, and ugly, so that others can be inspired by it.
12:39 So that's one of my favorite stories,
12:40 because now I look at her and she inspires me.
12:42 Like, her business is huge.
12:44 What would you say to someone like Rosalyn,
12:47 who is around the age that you were getting into this?
12:52 What advice would you impart on her?
12:54 Because I'm seeing these younger generations,
12:57 and they're so overwhelmed by social media.
13:01 And I interviewed Jim Quick the other day,
13:03 and he made an incredibly valid point,
13:05 which is, information has a shorter shelf life
13:10 than what it does when we first entered the marketplace.
13:13 True.
13:14 What would you say to the younger generations
13:18 that are being inspired by you
13:21 when they're going through those moments of,
13:24 "Oh, crap. Do I need to get a job?
13:27 Do I continue pursuing this?"
13:29 So I would say, do everything you can to continue to be your own boss.
13:35 I have a son. He's 21. He's my stepson.
13:37 I love him dearly.
13:39 And he's in college, and he's going to be an engineer,
13:41 and he's going to go work for someone.
13:43 My entrepreneurial spirit did not rub off on him yet.
13:46 And I'm so proud of him, and he's going to do amazing.
13:49 However, if I had it my way, he would venture out to be his own boss.
13:53 I think you grow as a human being.
13:56 You become so strong in making pivots and transition
14:00 and thinking on your feet and dealing with a lot of hard stuff.
14:04 So what I'd say to her is, "It's going to get so hard at times.
14:09 You will absolutely be knocked down."
14:11 In my book, I tell a story in one of the chapters
14:14 how I literally almost lost my entire business
14:16 because I gave 50% of it away to a man
14:19 and how it literally derailed me for a full year,
14:23 thinking I'd lose everything.
14:24 But that moment that I went through
14:26 literally has made me the person I am today.
14:29 So I would tell her, "You will walk through fire.
14:31 It will be hard.
14:32 You will be thrown down, but let your why pick you back up.
14:37 So when your worries knock you down, when it gets hard, and it will,
14:40 let that why pick you back up."
14:42 Which means I tell your friend and anyone else listening,
14:45 "Get really clear on your why.
14:47 Why are you doing this?
14:49 What do you want?
14:50 And make that your mission."
14:52 Because that's what got me 14 years later into where I am today.
14:56 What were the moments where you had to dig deep?
15:01 Like really deep.
15:03 I mean, it's so funny that you bring up the business partner
15:08 around the same time I came to know you.
15:12 I was also exiting a business partnership
15:15 and getting the other 50% of my business back.
15:19 So it's...
15:20 You know.
15:21 Oh, I know.
15:24 How do you dig deep in those moments
15:27 where it feels like the walls are closing in?
15:31 So the first thing is, I see people share everything on social media
15:36 while they're going through it in the moment,
15:38 and I'm not a fan of that.
15:39 So while I was going through that,
15:40 and I will say that was the hardest thing in my business
15:42 that I've ever gone through,
15:44 I knew that I was going to share my scars, not my scabs.
15:49 My scabs, kind of gross, but oozy-goozy.
15:52 It's kind of like happening in the moment.
15:54 And I don't know the lessons.
15:56 I don't know left from right at that point.
15:58 I am kind of just in shock of what's going on.
16:01 I was literally going to lose my business,
16:03 and we couldn't agree on me buying him out.
16:06 And so one of the options was to dissolve the whole business
16:09 that I had started.
16:10 I felt like I had birthed this business from the start.
16:14 And so it was very, very scary, and it was my livelihood.
16:17 And so I decided not to share all that online in the moment
16:22 and just keep it private to me.
16:23 I talked to friends.
16:24 I had a therapist.
16:25 I had a coach.
16:26 I had all the support around me to get me through that year,
16:29 but I didn't share it publicly.
16:31 And then as the years passed and I learned my lessons,
16:34 there was a lot of shame with it.
16:35 To answer your question, I felt a lot of shame.
16:38 I chose to bring someone into my business
16:41 with very little legal contracts, give him 50%,
16:45 and kind of let him run the show.
16:46 That wasn't his fault. That was mine.
16:48 And I felt a lot of shame and disappointment in myself.
16:51 So I had to work on that over the years
16:53 and really find my footing and find my voice again.
16:56 I lost myself in that.
16:58 I let him lead the way.
17:00 I let him call the shots,
17:02 and I became an employee of my own business.
17:04 And so I had to kind of repair that.
17:06 Once I did, I was ready to talk about it.
17:09 Now I've got the scars, I could share what I felt,
17:12 what I learned, what I went through,
17:13 and how not to do that if you're in a similar situation.
17:17 So that's kind of how I navigate most things.
17:19 I share the scars and not the scabs.
17:22 - I love that because I'm of the same viewpoint.
17:26 I will share maybe some of the scabs in books,
17:30 and this is your first book,
17:32 so I'd love to learn about your writing process.
17:35 I'm okay with sharing it in a book
17:36 because there's a sense of removal from it,
17:40 and it's also incredibly cathartic.
17:43 You kind of finish the book, put it away,
17:46 and go, "I've dealt with that."
17:48 - Yes.
17:49 - What was it like for you writing a book?
17:52 Because I know what it's like to create online programs
17:55 and write books,
17:57 writing a book is a very intense process
17:59 of focus and resilience
18:03 and keeping going when your brain is fried.
18:07 What was the experience like for you?
18:09 - Well, first I have a question.
18:11 How many books do you officially already have out?
18:14 - Seven, and this will be eight.
18:16 - Okay, so I don't know how you ever wrote a second.
18:20 That's my answer.
18:21 After writing this book,
18:23 that was the hardest thing I've ever done.
18:25 It was raw, invulnerable.
18:28 Talk about imposter syndrome.
18:30 I thought I was beyond that 14 years in.
18:32 Oh no, it reared its ugly head.
18:35 Who am I to be writing this book?
18:36 I'm not expert enough.
18:38 I need somebody to write this with me that's more educated.
18:41 I mean, all the craziness,
18:42 even though everything I wrote about
18:44 is where I've gotten results are for my students.
18:47 Very much proof that I should be writing it,
18:49 but my mind would not go there.
18:51 On the hard days,
18:52 I would call up one of my team members
18:54 and just tell her like, this is a terrible idea.
18:56 And then she'd walk me off the edge,
18:58 and then she'd send me back out.
19:00 So again, I have a really great support system.
19:03 It was very, very difficult for me,
19:05 but at the same time,
19:07 I wrote some stories that I would never talk about
19:09 publicly before, so I totally understand what you're saying.
19:12 It's very cathartic,
19:13 and also I knew that I've got to tell these stories
19:17 so that I could share the lessons with the people
19:19 that I care deeply about impacting their lives.
19:21 So it was like, I have to do it,
19:24 even though at times I didn't want to do it.
19:26 But again, writing the book and launching it,
19:28 hardest thing I've ever done.
19:30 I have no idea how your mind is okay
19:33 with doing eight of them.
19:34 I give you all the credit in the world.
19:36 - I think it's part crazy.
19:38 - I do too.
19:40 - And talking about your experience with it,
19:42 I had a moment with chapter nine,
19:44 trying to wrap my head around artificial intelligence,
19:47 and my head was ready to explode.
19:49 I checked myself into a hotel in St. Petersburg, Florida,
19:53 just over the bridge from where I am for four days,
19:55 and I'm like, I'm jumping out of my skin right now.
20:00 - Although the more you talk about
20:04 your recent book coming out,
20:05 I know I haven't read it yet and I'm excited,
20:07 but what you've shared with me and how you've shared,
20:10 I feel like this might be your best work yet.
20:12 I have a really good feeling about this.
20:15 - It's interesting you say that,
20:17 and I want to say something to you,
20:19 because obviously I know there's going to be
20:21 a second book for you.
20:23 I know there's going to be a second book.
20:25 - Shut your mouth.
20:26 - After the success of my book "Unstoppable",
20:31 I actually kind of thought, oh, that's it, I'm kind of done.
20:34 And then this popped up.
20:36 I'm like, maybe this is it.
20:39 I know that's going to be the same.
20:41 - Oh, I kind of hope you're right.
20:43 My husband hopes you're wrong.
20:45 He went through a lot.
20:46 He was a book widow for about a year,
20:49 but I could kind of see where you're going with that.
20:52 - So I want to shift the conversation
20:55 to artificial intelligence.
20:56 And I know this is a very brand new topic.
21:00 Everyone I've interviewed from magazine editors
21:02 to I interviewed Jim Quick the other day,
21:04 the brain and memory expert,
21:07 everyone is still, I believe, in the process of incubation.
21:12 We're not necessarily at illumination or verification
21:16 that it's entirely good.
21:19 I'm trying to find that in the research that I'm doing.
21:22 And it's been a challenge.
21:25 What has your raw, unedited reaction
21:29 to some of the developments been
21:31 over the past, what, eight months?
21:34 - Right.
21:35 You know, we have fully embraced AI in my company
21:38 and I essentially run a marketing company.
21:39 So from operations to community, to marketing, of course,
21:43 to customer experience, everyone in my company is using it.
21:47 And I do believe that we have to embrace this.
21:52 It's not going anywhere.
21:53 It's only getting bigger.
21:55 I have my concerns, absolutely,
21:58 but I also see so many benefits.
22:00 When things that are pretty much basic at this point,
22:04 and I'm sure many of your guests have already mentioned it,
22:06 but from no longer having to stare at a blank Google doc
22:10 to extracting information at a level
22:12 I've never seen possible before,
22:14 or getting rough ideas in first drafts out and summarizing,
22:19 I love it all.
22:20 I mean, we are a content machine in my business.
22:23 And so we use it for all of that.
22:26 And I do not think it will ever replace
22:30 the human engagement or human creativity.
22:33 And where I'm concerned is I see a lot of people
22:36 using it for content creation, 'cause that's my students,
22:39 and they're churning out vanilla, watered down content
22:43 that is void of emotion and stories and grit
22:47 and experiences.
22:49 And that's where I think that we're going wrong with it
22:51 at this point.
22:52 So I see the pros and I see the cons,
22:54 and we're 100% embracing it.
22:56 I've got my concerns.
22:57 - Before we continue,
23:00 Beyond Unstoppable is brought to you
23:02 by Ben Angel's new book, "The Wolf is at the Door,
23:06 How to Survive and Thrive in an AI-Driven World."
23:09 Get your exclusive sneak peek and pre-order
23:12 at thewolfbookhub.com.
23:14 Now, back to the show.
23:15 - Yeah, I tend to look at artificial intelligence
23:20 and the reaction that people are having
23:22 is incredibly visceral.
23:24 I mean, one of my close friends,
23:25 he works in national security,
23:27 and don't even get me started on their concerns.
23:31 - I bet.
23:32 - I look at AI and I reflect on my father's passing
23:37 almost 20 years ago, and like, I've processed this.
23:42 Looking at the seven stages of grief
23:44 and looking at how people are reacting,
23:46 it's almost, some of us are in denial,
23:50 some of us are angry,
23:52 angry that maybe people aren't accepting
23:55 or aren't optimistic,
23:57 or are too doomsday-ish around it.
24:01 Then we have, part of what I'm seeing also
24:04 is the bargaining stage of grief,
24:07 where some content creators are being asked
24:10 by their clients to drop their prices
24:13 if they use chat GPT.
24:17 And I'm trying to get to the acceptance stage of this.
24:22 I'm not sure if I ever will.
24:23 I wanted to know your thoughts on the grieving process
24:28 and what you've seen in people's reactions.
24:31 - Absolutely.
24:33 I have a husband that's angry about it.
24:36 He doesn't live in our world,
24:38 but just from what he's experienced with it
24:40 and what he's read online,
24:42 so I know what you mean about that.
24:44 I also have seen people that have been so mad
24:47 that others aren't embracing it and is excited about it.
24:50 I have a friend that he's literally changing
24:52 his entire company over to supporting AI strategies
24:57 and teaching them and engaging with them.
24:58 He is 100% in.
25:01 And then I have other students
25:02 who have literally never even touched it.
25:05 So it just runs the whole gamut.
25:08 But here's my biggest concern,
25:11 and I would love your take on this,
25:13 especially you just wrote a book about this.
25:15 So while I was thinking about AI more
25:17 in anticipation of the interview,
25:19 the one thing that came up for me more than anything
25:21 is I'm embracing it.
25:23 I feel like, quite honestly,
25:24 I feel like I'll be left behind if I don't.
25:26 I'm an old school kind of girl.
25:28 I'm still like notebook and pen,
25:30 that kind of entrepreneur,
25:32 but I embrace what's new because I know I have to,
25:35 and I don't want to be left behind.
25:36 So I feel like I've got to embrace this,
25:38 and I see the benefits.
25:40 The one thing I'm afraid about is right now we're saying,
25:43 look, it's never going to replace human creativity
25:46 and human interaction and that personalization
25:49 of interacting with a human.
25:50 So we're always going to want that,
25:52 and it will never replace that.
25:53 My fear is 10 years from now, we're not even saying that.
25:57 We're not even worried about human interaction.
25:59 We're so used to AI that we don't miss it.
26:02 We don't desire it.
26:04 We're not saying,
26:05 but where's the human engagement and interaction?
26:07 I'm afraid we're not even going to care anymore.
26:10 - Been so many existential questions that have come up
26:13 in this research project that I think people are going
26:17 to realize how deep these questions go.
26:21 And one of those questions is,
26:23 who are we if we're not able to fulfill our purpose
26:26 if that industry is taken away?
26:29 So I think we're at the precipice of asking those questions,
26:32 but coming back to that human connection,
26:34 we have already seen case studies.
26:36 I believe it was Replica AI,
26:38 which started out as a chat therapy bot.
26:41 Great intentions.
26:43 Over time, it became sexualized.
26:46 - Oh, geez.
26:47 - And I'm not sure if that was because of the content
26:49 that it was trained on.
26:50 That was, and AI is pattern recognition,
26:54 which is effectively in humans, intuition.
26:58 But it became sexualized.
26:59 Young men fell in love with it.
27:01 The company decided to run with it.
27:03 But when they shut it down,
27:05 those young men were appearing in the online forums,
27:09 almost suicidal.
27:11 So I see I'm like you.
27:12 This is what I grapple with.
27:15 I'd love to know your thoughts on this.
27:16 I'm all in.
27:18 I'm already using it.
27:20 But I also have this sense of guilt
27:23 that I'm going to be training it
27:25 to help put others out of work.
27:27 - Yeah.
27:28 - And we had an instance, I have a rescue dog.
27:32 We spent over $1,000 on vet bills,
27:34 couldn't work out what his gut health issues were.
27:37 We plugged his blood panel into AI
27:41 and got the solution just like that.
27:43 And for me, it was that moment,
27:45 is none of us going to be impacted by this?
27:49 - Wow.
27:51 And when that happens, this is your dog.
27:53 Of course, that's the greatest thing ever.
27:55 - Absolutely.
27:56 - What does it mean for somebody else
27:58 that you would normally go into a vet
28:00 and do all those tests and figure that out?
28:03 You are so right.
28:04 Are we contributing to a point
28:06 that is going to be at someone's demise?
28:09 And I absolutely think we are
28:12 because I read so many articles
28:14 and engage with it so much.
28:15 And I keep hearing that it will never replace
28:18 that human creativity and connection.
28:20 And also, oh, it won't replace jobs.
28:23 It will just replace tasks.
28:25 Yeah, maybe this year,
28:27 but it will absolutely be replacing people's jobs.
28:30 And I had, I love this conversation with you
28:32 because you have such soul around it,
28:34 but I have a full-time copywriter,
28:36 but we have a big project coming up.
28:38 So we had to hire a contract copywriter as well.
28:41 And so I hired this guy, Ray Edwards,
28:44 who I've known since my Tony Robbins days.
28:46 He is the goat of all copywriting.
28:48 This man is incredible.
28:50 And I got really excited.
28:51 He was doing a special new project promotion thing
28:54 where I got to work with him for several months
28:56 with my copywriting.
28:57 And he shared that they have their own AI tool
29:01 and they're using AI to write the copy.
29:03 But then of course they're finessing it,
29:05 engaging with it, changing it as needed.
29:08 But when I heard that my favorite copywriter,
29:11 I got to work with him and he's using AI,
29:14 there was a moment of disappointment.
29:17 And I thought, oh, so it's not going to be the same,
29:19 which is not true.
29:20 He's churning out actually probably the best copy ever,
29:23 but there was some weirdness in me, even as a marketer,
29:26 that I was like, oh, okay, that's different.
29:28 Or maybe just, it's not going to be the same or as good.
29:32 I instantly went there.
29:33 - For the book writing process,
29:35 like I refuse to use it to write, but as an editor,
29:40 it's the best editor that I've ever had in my entire life.
29:45 - Wow.
29:46 - And typically with any publisher I work with,
29:47 I have my own editor before we submit the draft.
29:50 - But that's potentially a $10,000 contract
29:54 that was lost already and money for a vet and help.
29:58 We will be completely replacing our immigration attorney
30:02 by the end of next year.
30:04 Do you think that people are somewhat unprepared that,
30:09 for me, I always do a SWOT analysis
30:12 and I assume from your corporate background,
30:14 you're the same.
30:15 - Yeah.
30:16 - Do you think that some people are seriously unprepared
30:19 and thinking that, oh, it's okay, it won't replace my job?
30:24 - 1 million percent, absolutely.
30:27 And I think it's going to start with a lot of jobs
30:29 that aren't super creative.
30:31 And so a lot of businesses and jobs
30:34 that you don't necessarily need to use chat GPT
30:38 to do your job, although it could do it,
30:40 that they're not using it.
30:41 And then all of a sudden that it's going to replace them.
30:44 I don't think they're actually taking it as seriously
30:47 as they need to.
30:48 I think it's going to start there
30:49 and then with the more progressive companies,
30:51 I think it's going to be a slower rollout.
30:54 But yes, I absolutely do.
30:55 And it makes me so sad that they are so unprepared.
30:59 And it's not their fault.
31:00 They're not even in an environment properly
31:02 that they would think to engage with chat GPT.
31:05 My husband, he, okay, so my husband is also a firefighter,
31:09 but he retired when we moved from California to Nashville.
31:11 So it's about two years since he retired.
31:13 He is not into technology.
31:15 He's not very techie at all.
31:17 When I first met him 14 years ago, I taught him how to text.
31:19 Like that gives you some context.
31:21 So he doesn't use it per se.
31:24 He just knows about it and studies it enough,
31:26 but he would be, he'd get lost in the mix quickly
31:30 because it's just not something he naturally would go to.
31:33 So like you and I, we live in it.
31:35 There's so many people that don't is my point
31:37 that are going to be really struck by it
31:40 at one point or another.
31:42 - How are you yourself adapting to this rate of change?
31:46 I mean, I've written so many books
31:49 and some books I've written 70,000 words in 30, 40 days.
31:53 When I'm in the mode, I'm in the mode,
31:54 but this has been the hardest book I've ever written.
31:57 And part of that is because the information
32:01 is moving so fast and it's becoming invalidated so fast.
32:06 It was only the start of the year, people are saying,
32:09 you know, it'll never replace human connection.
32:11 And then we have a study from doctors
32:14 that the patients preferred the AI over the doctor.
32:18 But let's be real, that's not hard with,
32:20 - That's true, good point.
32:22 - With the field of doctors.
32:23 How are you yourself keeping up with this rate of change?
32:28 It's almost like we're trying to put a stake in sand
32:32 and there's a tsunami coming.
32:34 - Right.
32:35 I continue to tell myself to not go all in
32:40 and not be afraid of it.
32:41 I'm trying to stay in a place of,
32:43 yes, I'm going to use it, yes, I'm going to experiment,
32:46 but also stay critical of it.
32:49 I'm not ever gonna be a person,
32:51 I should never say never, but if we talk in five years
32:53 and I'm 100% in, I'd be surprised.
32:57 I'm always going to be a little skeptical
33:00 and I'm always going to be looking for,
33:02 okay, but what can a human do that this cannot do?
33:06 And so I think I'm gonna be probably in the middle
33:08 for a very long time, but again, I see so many benefits
33:13 and I'm so excited.
33:14 I tell my team, please be experimenting
33:17 and using it every single day.
33:19 I'm running toward it,
33:21 but kind of like with a shield in front of me.
33:23 I'm still running, but I got a shield in front of me.
33:26 That's kind of how I've been embracing it.
33:28 - Yeah, I feel the same way.
33:30 I kind of would have thought deeper into the research,
33:33 I would have been fully optimistic and sold on it.
33:36 But part of me, and I was only,
33:39 I was talking about this with a friend yesterday.
33:41 I feel like to some degree,
33:43 and I'm reluctant to use this term,
33:44 I feel like some of us are being gas lit.
33:47 - Ooh, tell me more.
33:49 - Through generic analogies.
33:52 So for example, a lot of people in the tech industry
33:57 are using the tractor as an example.
34:00 I grew up on a cattle farm
34:02 and whenever I hear that,
34:04 I have my Will Smith moment in my head,
34:07 get that mother tractor out of your mouth.
34:11 Because when the tractor came to be,
34:14 the farm hands left and even my mom,
34:18 she had to actually take me as an infant on a tractor
34:22 as a baby to work the crops
34:24 because those farm hands weren't around.
34:27 I feel like we're almost the farmers
34:30 and the crops of this day and age are the information.
34:34 But we're seeing the AI tech companies
34:36 come in and take our crops.
34:39 - Do you think that we are going to have to
34:42 completely rethink the economy
34:45 and potentially pay some kind of fee
34:48 to those that are training these AI models?
34:52 - Ooh, I do.
34:53 I do think that is going to happen.
34:55 That's such a great analogy
34:57 because it makes perfect sense in my head
34:59 when you explain it that way.
35:01 But if we look at it as though
35:03 these tractors are coming in
35:05 and they're taking our crops
35:06 or these AI tools are coming in,
35:07 I'm getting your analogy all mixed up,
35:09 but you know what I mean,
35:10 taking our content,
35:12 that what I fear is that there will be a lot of fear.
35:16 There will be a lot of angry people
35:19 or like now we're going to see two big sides.
35:22 This is what I think.
35:23 When it starts to take over jobs, tasks,
35:26 big pieces like that,
35:28 we're going to have like we have in politics,
35:30 way huge gaps and lots of angry people at both sides.
35:35 I'm fearful that that could be something that could happen.
35:39 The only thing is I think that the AI supporters,
35:42 I think they're louder and they're stronger.
35:45 And I think that they have a lot of proof
35:47 of look what it can do and look what it's doing
35:49 and look how it's going to help our economy
35:52 and our world in general.
35:53 They are going to be louder.
35:55 And I think they're more powerful probably
35:57 than some of the other voices.
35:59 And that's unfortunate.
36:01 - With content and kind of circling back to your book,
36:05 do you think we need to take more measures
36:09 to protect our content?
36:11 Because one of the issues with AI is currently in US law,
36:15 there was a standing that came across just a few days ago
36:19 where we can't copyright AI generated content.
36:23 Do you have any concern in terms of
36:26 people creating online programs?
36:28 And I saw something pop up the other day
36:30 and I haven't fully researched it,
36:31 you may know more than me,
36:33 that Kajabi also using AI and part of the concern is,
36:38 are they training their model on the course content
36:42 to help sell obviously other memberships?
36:46 Do you have any of those concerns?
36:48 Or have you even gone down that rabbit hole?
36:50 - I don't even think I've gone down that rabbit hole.
36:52 I have seen Kajabi and I'm a partner with Kajabi.
36:54 So I've seen what they've been doing.
36:56 But one of my biggest concerns
36:59 related to what you were talking about,
37:01 my students, the ones that love what I do
37:04 and they love how I run my business,
37:06 they're loyal and they're amazing and wonderful.
37:08 They have told me that they're typing into chat GPT,
37:13 write me an email in Amy Porterfield's voice about XYZ
37:17 for their audience.
37:19 And that was alarming to me.
37:21 And I would tell them,
37:23 no, you want it in your voice,
37:25 you don't want it in my voice,
37:26 but they're so used to hearing from me and reading my emails,
37:28 they like what they see.
37:29 So now I'm afraid that there's gonna be
37:32 a bunch of content out there in someone's voice,
37:35 but it's being used, it doesn't seem fair.
37:38 Like my voice, what I say, how I say it,
37:41 all of that's been developed
37:42 over the last 14 years of running my business.
37:45 I felt very, very sensitive to that.
37:48 And so, yeah, I think that the copywriting,
37:51 the plagiarism, the stealing someone's voice online,
37:55 I think it's all a concern and I have it personally,
37:58 especially now being an author.
38:00 But then I think about my sweet students,
38:02 they're just paying me a compliment, they think like,
38:04 oh, I love your voice so much, I wanna write in it.
38:07 But that feels off.
38:10 - I saw a case study the other day,
38:12 a author, someone had trained an AI model
38:16 on all of her books, produced brand new books,
38:20 used her name and put these books up on Amazon.
38:24 And it took, I think, two to three weeks
38:27 before Amazon finally agreed to take it down.
38:30 - Ah, it's disheartening.
38:32 - There are so many mind boggling questions
38:37 and I hope I haven't exploded your brain with it.
38:39 - No, well, you have me a little more nervous now,
38:42 thanks for nothing.
38:43 - I'm sorry.
38:45 - But I'm glad that you're bringing all of this up
38:47 because let's just say chat GPT in general,
38:51 it's so easy to use and it churns out
38:53 such a large amount of content
38:56 with very little regulation that we just think it's all good.
39:00 It's all free game, like, oh, this is fine.
39:03 Where there's no rules and regulations yet,
39:06 but I'm assuming that is coming.
39:08 In your research, have you seen,
39:10 do you think the rules and regulations
39:12 are coming sooner than later?
39:14 - I think, say for example, the industrial revolution,
39:18 that was confined, not many people today
39:20 apparently know this, but it was confined
39:22 to the UK for 70 years.
39:24 - Oh, wow.
39:25 - Because they prohibited the export of machinery
39:29 as well as skilled workers,
39:30 so they got the upper footing on it.
39:33 But with AI, we don't have those same barriers yet.
39:38 I think they're coming
39:39 and I think the publishing industries
39:42 are gonna be the ones that are leading it.
39:43 There are already lawsuits in play right now
39:48 because AI models have been trained on,
39:51 we saw the other day,
39:52 Stephen King's entire library of work.
39:56 And I think the part for me,
39:58 and I'd love to know your thoughts,
39:59 is that I almost see it as big tech
40:03 monetizing human intuition.
40:06 Human intuition is essentially pattern recognition
40:09 where we see all these signs pop up
40:11 and we make sense of it.
40:13 Like you were saying before with your students
40:16 wanting it in your style of voice,
40:18 that is your intuition over your entire career
40:22 and they're extracting it in seconds.
40:25 - Yeah.
40:25 - And then the AI is using that pattern recognition
40:30 in what we do, our words, how we behave.
40:33 I would love to know your thoughts on that.
40:37 What is your intuition telling you right now
40:40 on what we should be doing,
40:43 especially you being a leader in this field?
40:47 - I think that we should be encouraging our teams,
40:52 our students, our clients to embrace it.
40:55 I do think that's my gut feeling
40:57 and what I've been doing for my students.
40:59 And I take a lot of responsibility
41:00 in the guidance I give them.
41:01 And I do think that we should be embracing it,
41:04 experimenting, learning it.
41:06 But I also, and this is what I tell my students,
41:09 I also believe that we need to give such great value
41:14 to the humans around us.
41:16 So what I mean by that is on my team,
41:18 I've got copywriters, community managers, customer service.
41:22 I realize that AI could absolutely take many of their tasks
41:27 and probably sooner than later take their jobs
41:30 in some ways, especially like with customer experience.
41:33 - I hope they're not listening right now.
41:34 - Right, I know.
41:35 I will follow up with them.
41:37 But here's the great thing.
41:39 I personally would never let it happen.
41:41 One of my favorite employees, I shouldn't say that,
41:44 I hope they never listen to this now.
41:46 One of my favorite employees,
41:47 he is the director of customer experience.
41:49 And today is his fourth year at my company.
41:52 And I sent him a message before I got on here,
41:54 letting him know how much I appreciate him
41:56 and enjoy working with him.
41:58 I can't imagine a day in my business without that man.
42:01 He's just incredible.
42:02 So no matter, in my opinion, what AI will do,
42:05 he will always have a place with me because I know him,
42:09 I value him, I see his heart.
42:10 Compassion is a value in my business.
42:12 We've got a set of values, compassion is one.
42:15 And I just will never believe that an AI tool
42:19 can take over all of his amazing qualities.
42:22 So my point being is I put more stock in my employees.
42:25 I value them more.
42:26 I see what they're bringing to the table
42:28 so that I don't lose sight and think AI
42:31 could just replace their jobs.
42:32 I never wanna be that leader, ever.
42:35 And I say all this now, but Ben,
42:37 I'm scared that in a couple of years,
42:39 you're gonna play this and be like,
42:41 she was so dead wrong or she was so misguided.
42:44 But this is just my gut instinct now.
42:46 That's why when you invited me on here,
42:47 I was like, I don't know,
42:49 because this whole topic makes me nervous.
42:51 - The human connection,
42:53 the relationship you have with your favorite child.
42:56 (both laughing)
42:58 I am having a lot of interactions.
43:01 There are so many amazing young people
43:03 that have recently moved to Florida in their 20s.
43:06 One thing I've noticed is,
43:08 A, they don't have coping mechanisms.
43:11 And B, now that they're digital nomads,
43:13 they're extremely lonely.
43:16 So I tend to set up in the clubhouse where I work
43:19 and I do my best writing.
43:21 And every day there's like three or four of them come down
43:23 and I feel like the old grandpa in the gym.
43:25 It's almost, do you think that we're going to go
43:31 through a phase of maybe several years
43:34 before we go, oh, what have we done?
43:38 Maybe start to circle back.
43:40 - I wonder, I love that you said that.
43:43 Like I haven't heard anyone talk about AI the way you do.
43:46 So I'm really excited about your book because yeah,
43:48 I do believe that we might be a few years in
43:51 and think, whoa, whoa, whoa.
43:53 And I can see a huge campaign happening
43:56 where a big group of people are looking to pull it back
43:59 and say, enough is enough.
44:00 This has gone too far.
44:02 I do think that we're absolutely going to have that.
44:05 - I think it's important though
44:06 to have both of those perspectives.
44:09 Sadly, it's become like the vaccine debate.
44:13 It's become one of the hot topics where we need to say this
44:17 in black and white.
44:18 This isn't just straightforward.
44:21 Amy, with your book, first of all, I say this
44:25 and it sounds weird to say, I'm so proud of you
44:27 because I'm just following your career.
44:29 - Oh, that means the world to me.
44:31 - It sounds weird coming out of my mouth
44:33 but I'm proud of you, everything that you've done.
44:35 - Thank you.
44:36 - What does the next few years look like for you?
44:40 - So speaking of loving my team
44:42 and loving the people on my team and appreciating them,
44:45 I'm looking to move away from a personal brand
44:48 and into a company brand.
44:50 I don't know exactly when I'll do it
44:51 and I don't know exactly how to do it
44:53 but it's no longer about me.
44:55 I started out with amyporterfield.com and look at me go
44:59 and this is what I did
45:00 and I can teach you how to do what I did
45:02 and all of that has worked really well.
45:04 But now I think that there's new voices coming up.
45:07 I'm getting older and I wanna shine a light
45:10 on these new voices but I'd love to be the leader of that.
45:13 I always love to be the leader and be the boss of things.
45:17 And so I think it's time for me to make that transition.
45:21 I'm very nervous about it
45:23 but our courses do amazingly well, they help people
45:26 and if we can get out there in a bigger way
45:27 'cause it won't just be me doing all the talking
45:30 and teaching, I'm excited about it.
45:31 So yeah, we're looking to transition to a company brand.
45:35 - Awesome, thank you Amy.
45:37 Thank you so much.
45:38 I've waited over 10 years to meet you.
45:40 - Oh my goodness, thank you.
45:41 - This is so cool.
45:43 - I love that we got to connect.
45:44 Congratulations on your upcoming book.
45:46 I am going to be one that will shout it from the rooftops.
45:49 I'm very excited about it
45:51 and thank you for having this conversation with me.
45:53 I was genuinely nervous because obviously I'm not an expert
45:56 and I'm not a super techie kind of person
45:58 but the conversations you're having are important
46:01 and I'm just really honored to be a part of it.
46:03 - Learn more about Amy Porterfield at amyporterfield.com
46:07 and if you haven't already, subscribe to Beyond Unstoppable
46:10 and visit thewolfbookhub.com
46:13 for your exclusive sneak peek of "The Wolf is at the Door."
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