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00:00 Nick Richards, as you said, Mark Williams has been out now for pretty much since we
00:04 last recorded and a really mercurial injury. It was listed as a lower back contusion. Contusion
00:12 normally means like when someone has been hit there, like so that normally means like
00:16 bruised generally. And then he's just not been able to go. He's been listed as doubtful
00:21 basically every single game. Interestingly, Rod Boone wrote an article today at the Shell
00:26 Observer and there's some interesting quotes in here, which I just thought I'd quickly
00:29 read because this is obviously linked to Nick Richards starting. He said, and this is after
00:34 the Toronto game, "I went to the locker room, got an MRI, got a CT scan, dealing with a
00:40 strain or whatever again. I've just been trying to get back, but yeah, it sucks just to be
00:45 watching. I'm doing everything I can treatment wise." And then in terms of what he has to
00:50 do before he comes back, he says, "I have to get through some practices, some two-on-two
00:55 stuff at practice, shooting around. It's just going to be like a whole day's thing. It's
01:00 not just going to be get up and go." He said, "I feel like I have a pretty good pain tolerance,
01:06 but right now I just can't. I can't go right now." Which those last two lines sound like
01:13 he's not close if I'm being really honest. This isn't like, yeah, I'm going to be back
01:18 in the court anytime now. I'm feeling a lot better. This is, there is a strain, which
01:24 is more worrying than I think the lower back contusion that was initially listed. And when
01:29 you talk about seven foot guys with lower back strain issues, that's extremely worrying.
01:35 So obviously the CT scan was clear. That's the good news, but backs are very, very complicated
01:40 things and I just hope this is a muscle tweak and not more something more complex because
01:48 the last thing the Hornets need is a seven foot big, who's their starter, who might or
01:52 may not be available here and there due to a back injury. So I just thought interesting
01:57 news to share linked to this Nick Richards return. But over that time, Nick Richards
02:03 has had the opportunity to start. Someone who I once dubbed before the season, the best
02:08 back of center in the NBA. We might revisit that take in just a few minutes here. What
02:14 have you made of the Nick Richards starting experience?
02:17 All right. So we'll start this off on a positive note because from what I've gathered from
02:25 your comments and from what I have in my notes, a lot of this is not going to be overly positive,
02:31 but I do think in his 11 games that he has started in the last month or so, he has proven
02:39 himself to be one of the better rebounders per minute or production wise at his position.
02:46 He is in the 68th percentile and defensive rebounding percentage for cleaning the glass.
02:50 He has double digit rebounds in six of those 11 games. He's very impactful on the defensive
02:55 glass, obviously uses his size well and is at least a physical guy that can carve out
03:00 some space if he wants to and is willing to battle on the glass, especially. There's not
03:05 a lot that gets by him on that end. You don't really see him like getting beat for rebounds
03:09 necessarily unless...
03:10 I don't know. I saw Nurkic giving him a...
03:15 Right. Nurkic is a bit of a different story because the guys like that are just very...
03:20 Obviously the Hornets just have proven again and again to not be able to handle guys that
03:24 are just going to impose their toughness and physicality on them.
03:28 A real question about that, just on that. You're right. Time and time again, Steven
03:33 Adams, Valanchunas, Nurkic, anyone who is big and strong, Embiid, they just... You're
03:40 right. They can't. I don't think that's necessarily something that Mark Williams, even when he's
03:46 healthy, projects to be a solver of. He is not a big, strong center who's going to grab
03:52 every rebound.
03:53 This is a major issue. We talked about general softness and stuff before, but at some point,
04:00 this front office... Well, not this front office, the next front office will need to
04:06 address that. I'm not ruling out that even though Mark Williams looks great and has shown
04:12 some flashes, that there isn't other ways that maybe you look to upgrade that center
04:16 position and you still bring Mark Williams along slowly.
04:19 If you want to go and start competing next year, I don't think Mark Williams is going
04:22 to be able to... The Mark Williams-Nick Richards combo will be able to deal with those guys
04:28 every single game, even next season. That's just something I just want to flag just for
04:33 the moment. I think that's something the team needs to consider.
04:37 Even going forward, those matchups, they're always going to struggle with, but the other
04:42 matchups where the centers are more mobile, versatile, better shooters, more perimeter-based
04:47 is also not a good matchup for this center combo right now. With what you've gotten out
04:53 of Nick as a starter, you've seen it last year, this year, at any time in his career,
04:58 I feel like you can tell that he's not a very skilled offensive player, does not process
05:04 the game quickly at all, is a good rib protector, defensive rebounder, and off-ball lob finisher,
05:12 cutter, dunker spot guy, which is pretty much a good fit for a low-usage backup role and
05:18 a spot starting role.
05:20 If you are somebody that, like we just said, doesn't think that this center rotation is
05:25 cut out for playoff success right now, I think Nick is the player that you want to consider
05:32 moving, at least before Mark, because Mark shows significantly more potential on both
05:36 sides of the ball than Nick does right now.
05:38 But also because he's on a pretty team-friendly contract, even for the negatives that we just
05:43 said, $5 million a year is pretty good for a guy that can at least give you 15 minutes
05:48 and is going to finish efficiently and get some rebounds. There are other teams that
05:53 will value this, it's just clearly not working for the Hornets right now.
05:59 He hasn't been bad if you just look at the box score, but A, obviously they've lost 10
06:04 games in a row, so nothing is really working for anybody.
06:07 I honestly think his lack of utility and versatility at the 5 is one of the biggest reasons why
06:16 they are losing these games. He just hasn't grown as a player, really. He's gotten better
06:24 at things he was already good at, which does help. That's why he is capable of being that
06:30 backup spot starter, low usage guy. He's just not going to elevate your team in any way,
06:37 and the Hornets are a team that need people that are going to elevate them in the rotation
06:41 right now.
06:43 Players that don't do that are just going to look really out of place. I've seen Israel,
06:49 All Hornets former contributor, has posted multiple clips on Twitter of Steve Clifford
06:54 screaming at Nick Richards to step up, set screens on time, roll to the rim on time.
07:02 There's a clip that he posted, if you turn your volume up all the way on your phone,
07:07 you can hear Steve Clifford go, "Nick! Nick! Set the fucking screen!" Nick is in his fourth
07:14 season. These types of things just cannot be happening from players that you rely on
07:22 to be consistent contributors. If you're a guy that plays 12 to 15 minutes off the bench,
07:27 that's fine, but Nick is supposed to be one of your top six or seven guys right now.
07:33 If that's what you're having to coach, if you're the head coach, you're having to worry
07:36 about all these things on the floor, if you're having to tell your center to set a screen,
07:43 that means you're coaching the very first hurdle of a 24 mile marathon hurdle race.
07:51 There are so many more complexities, intricacies that you're having to coach against, your
07:56 help defense and everything like that. But if you're having to worry about someone setting
07:59 a screen, no wonder we see some of the more complex stuff that the team struggle with.
08:06 Nick has played 2000 minutes in his NBA career and has every physical advantage to be a good
08:12 screen setter and it just hasn't happened. At a certain point, what are you going to
08:20 expect it to improve and when are you going to get other players that are good at those
08:24 things to be able to take him off the court in situations where it's not working, which
08:27 has happened many times, especially early in the season. But even now, when he's the
08:33 only center that they have to rely on, really, that's not on a two way contract.
08:37 Well look, you look at the stats, the real stats and they're perfectly fine. As a starter,
08:41 29 minutes per game, he's at 9.4 points, 8.3 rebounds, 1.3 blocks, 69% from the field,
08:50 2.5 fouls per game. You look at that and you go, "That's all right." But I'm also going
08:55 to tell you, if you play any seven foot NBA basketball player, 29 minutes per game for
09:02 10 games in a row, they will put up points and rebounds. It's just something that centers
09:07 have always done because a lot of their points don't always come from necessarily skill.
09:12 It's normally from the benefit of others and Nick Richards fits this mold exactly. He's
09:16 not someone who's generating, he's someone who grabs a rebound or essentially gets a
09:21 dump off or an alley-oop at the rim. I want to take you back to 2012-13 to the Bobcats
09:27 chase. Byron Mullins, the Charlotte Bobcats traded a second round pick for Byron Mullins.
09:34 And Byron in that year, 27 minutes per game, averaged 10.5 points, 6.5 rebounds and half
09:41 a block per game. And you could look at that and go, "Byron Mullins, that's not too bad."
09:48 But you just have to look at like, yeah, but he got minutes and he got shots. And after
09:53 that, he was basically out of the league within a season. It doesn't matter what stats you
09:58 put up, especially in the modern NBA, this offensive NBA. I feel when I watch the games
10:04 now that stats seem to mean less and less, and I'm trying to focus on the eye test more
10:09 and more. And I agree with you. The eye test for Nick has just been like, you don't feel
10:14 him out there. You feel like he's a step late, that the other team are playing with him,
10:20 like at center in terms of getting him to bite on things. And even if you compare his,
10:25 those points, those numbers I gave before, it was 9.5 points, 8 rebounds, 1.3 blocks.
10:31 That was in 29 minutes per game. These are his numbers off the bench in 17 minutes per
10:36 game. 8 points, 6 rebounds, 1.2 blocks. So he's scoring a point more and grabbing three
10:44 more rebounds in another 12 minutes. That is not the impact I think you would expect
10:49 to see. Especially when, again, you're playing with, I know you're playing against better
10:54 players, against starters, but you're also playing with better players who are able to
10:57 get you looks. So for me, it's just been, it was an opportunity where Nick really could
11:04 have made a case to show that he's a starting level center in this league, like other kind
11:10 of backup centers have done when they've got that opportunity. Naz Reed got that a little
11:14 bit last season in Minnesota and now he's back to a bench role, but you know, he could
11:18 start on 15 teams in the NBA. And he just hasn't quite taken that. And like you say,
11:25 it's just cemented that he's fine as a 15 minute per guy night, perfectly solid, not
11:30 going to kill you. We'll have nights where he looks good, but it's just too inconsistent.
11:37 The Denver game that we referenced earlier is probably his best game of the season or
11:41 at last last month, 12 points, 15 rebounds, three blocks, three assists. Thought he played
11:46 Jokic really well on both ends. And you look at that and you go, there's the formula for
11:52 what the good looks like. But we just don't see that consistently enough. And if you want
11:56 to start in this league, you have to be able to play consistently. And he's just not able
12:01 to impact the game in enough ways on both ends on a consistent basis.
12:05 I will also say, I talked about my quote, which was, you know, best backup big in the
12:13 league. I think I might say top three in preseason.
12:18 I think you're right. I think we settled on Al Horford and Nas Reed being the two that
12:22 were better than him. Like I want to add, I want to, I want to own my L's and the Hornets
12:28 have got a lot of L's and this is one that I'm going to own. I went back through the
12:32 list and I've decided to do my backup center re-rankings. Nas Reed is still there, Al Horford
12:39 still there. I believe we had Rob Williams actually there as well. Who I know he's injured
12:43 this year. We're not going to see him, but we had Rob Williams. I'd have those three
12:46 still. I think I would also probably add Walker Kessler has been coming off the bench for
12:51 Jazz. Isaiah Hartenstein is now starting for the Knicks, but was a backup. I would probably
12:56 add him in there. I would actually maybe even add Mo Wagner for the Orlando Magic. He's
13:00 been really, really good this year. And Onyeka Kongu is right around where Nick is, probably
13:06 similar to Mo. So we might have to re-do that to a top 10 backup center in the league, which
13:13 isn't nearly as impressive as what I initially said. But look, he's still got time to turn
13:18 this around. This is the first time playing against starting level players. It's an adjustment
13:22 for him. This is not us writing Nick Richards off, but we're just saying that I don't think
13:27 he's really taken the opportunity with two hands that he could have done.