Jack & Dan's co-owner Jeff Condill joins Talking Zags to break down Gonzaga's shooting struggles and more with Dan Dickau and Adam Morrison
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Talking Zags, episode 11 for Gonzaga Nation.
00:10 I'm one of your two hosts, Dan Dickow,
00:12 alongside Adam Morrison.
00:14 We bring on a special guest each week
00:17 to talk about some of their experiences,
00:19 but also talk about the current makeup of Zags
00:22 and the most recent outcomes of games.
00:24 So today's guest, from back in the 80s,
00:27 sorry to date you there,
00:28 JC, Jeff Condell, a great shooting guard back in the day.
00:32 So first off, Jeff, thanks for joining.
00:34 - Thank you, thanks for having me.
00:36 - Absolutely, well, Mo, we'll get started
00:39 talking about the game.
00:40 You were there calling it.
00:41 JC, I'd love to get your take as we get going,
00:44 'cause I'm sure you watched it intently
00:46 like you do every game.
00:47 I watched it from the TV on my couch on Rewind, on Record,
00:52 and it didn't seem to have the pop down the second half
00:57 to really climb back into the game.
00:58 Mo, what did you see?
00:59 - Yeah, and obviously a very good UConn team
01:02 that kind of checks a lot of boxes,
01:07 defensively, offensively.
01:08 They were holding teams to 39%.
01:10 That's what we ended up shooting.
01:11 They were shooting 51% from the field,
01:13 33 from three, which was great,
01:16 plus 14 on the glass,
01:17 and all of those statistical advantages
01:21 that they've had on other teams,
01:22 playing a really good non-conference schedule,
01:25 showed up at the first half.
01:26 We couldn't run our offense.
01:28 We had no rhythm.
01:30 If it wasn't for Nemhart early,
01:32 we'd have been down 11-0.
01:33 He's the first guy to score the first six points.
01:36 It was kind of an uphill battle.
01:39 I mean, like I said, the Klingon kid is fantastic inside.
01:43 I think he outplayed Graham E.K. by a mile.
01:47 Their shooting guards were great.
01:50 Spencer was great, hit three threes in the first half.
01:53 They had big guys off the bench
01:55 that were pick-and-dive guys.
01:56 I mean, it was just really a struggle
01:58 for us to get any rhythm.
01:59 I thought we did a good job hanging in there.
02:02 It could have been a 15-20 point first half,
02:05 but 11 was a uphill climb going into the second half.
02:10 - Yeah, I thought they made a run.
02:11 I think it was down 10 with about 4 1/2, five minutes,
02:14 and then UConn got a lob dunk,
02:15 and then that was kind of the it.
02:18 So, JC, you watch all the games.
02:20 You've been around the program for quite some time.
02:22 You have a lot of inner knowledge, inner working knowledge,
02:26 'cause Coach Pheu and staff have been around
02:30 for quite some time.
02:31 What do you see when you look at this year's ball club?
02:34 - You know, I like the club.
02:35 I liked them from the beginning.
02:36 Obviously, a couple of losses here
02:38 have shown some of their weaknesses, and they're young.
02:41 They're young still, as we can see.
02:43 You know, I think they're fun to watch.
02:45 They're lacking confidence from the three,
02:47 which Adam mentioned earlier before we got on air,
02:50 and I think if things don't get going right,
02:52 that's gonna hurt us a little bit.
02:54 You know, if they clamp down on Hickson and stop him,
02:59 the other guy's gotta step up and get some shots.
03:01 And Graham had a tough game,
03:03 first tough one I've seen him have.
03:05 - Yeah, I think a lot of it has to do
03:07 with just the size of Klingen.
03:08 I mean, I think he's 7'2", 7'3".
03:11 Did he look all of that in person, Mo?
03:13 - Yeah, he was Zach Eady size, maybe a little bit shorter,
03:17 but that just big body moved his feet really well.
03:20 It's a tough matchup for anybody.
03:22 They just do a good job of spacing the floor, too,
03:24 surrounding him with shooters, so you can't front,
03:27 you can't overhelp on the perimeter and dig down.
03:31 He sprays it out.
03:33 So it was just a tough matchup for any ball club.
03:37 I mean, they've had really good wins.
03:39 The only losses is Kansas at home,
03:41 and they only lost by four.
03:43 It was just kind of a bad matchup for us, to be honest.
03:46 You know, that first half, like I said,
03:49 if Nembhard's not rolling, we don't have a chance.
03:51 There's a great stat going into the second half.
03:54 We score in the last play,
03:56 and then we score on that back door
03:58 to start the second half.
03:59 We did not make a consecutive field goal in the second half.
04:02 - Is that right?
04:03 - Did not make two field goals in a row.
04:05 - Yeah, you're not gonna win a lot of games doing that.
04:07 - Shot 30% in the second half, two for 12 from three.
04:12 Didn't take as many,
04:13 but our three-point struggles are evident.
04:18 It's just really difficult to be able to play.
04:21 When you can't get to an effective field goal percentage,
04:24 you know, to the people watching,
04:26 like if you shoot a bunch of threes,
04:29 you don't have to be necessarily 40%,
04:32 which is great for a team.
04:33 But if you can get to effective field goal
04:35 where it's like you're taking twos that are at 48%,
04:38 then if you can get to good,
04:40 you can go 10 for 22,
04:44 or you can go 10 for 25.
04:45 That's still decent.
04:47 We're not even at the good spot from three.
04:50 And that's what, we're not expecting this team to get elite,
04:53 but we're not even good at shooting threes yet.
04:56 And that's not a knock.
04:57 It's just, we have enough sample size
04:59 that we gotta tell it like it is.
05:00 - Yeah, in the NBA, typically you look at 20 games
05:03 as a sample size.
05:04 In college, you gotta look like eight to 10 games
05:06 before you really know who you are as a team.
05:09 I think there's only one game
05:10 they've hit more than 10 threes.
05:12 And I can't go back and think of any Gonzaga team
05:16 that hasn't had multiple three-point shooting threats.
05:19 You were a deep three-ball threat, although--
05:22 - They didn't have a three.
05:23 - They have a three-point line back there, JC.
05:25 - The imaginary line.
05:27 - The imaginary line, yeah.
05:28 I had to go to Europe to find that little line.
05:30 But yeah, it was different back then.
05:33 But we still had fun and did our thing,
05:36 not to the extent and the level that these boys have come in.
05:40 - So talk a little bit about when you watch it
05:43 as a good shooter yourself,
05:45 are they good shots in the rhythm
05:47 and the flow of the offense?
05:48 Are they forced?
05:49 - Oh, I think they're getting good looks.
05:51 I don't think guys are forcing a bunch of them.
05:53 I mean, when you got space
05:56 and you're looking at right down the line,
05:57 they're passing the ball pretty well,
05:58 especially in and out.
06:00 They're getting good looks.
06:01 They just gotta step up and hit 'em.
06:03 I mean, it's a lot like Michigan State early.
06:04 They lost a bunch of games early
06:07 and they couldn't find a three.
06:08 Hopefully our guys can, I know they're working at it
06:10 and I know they're putting in the time.
06:13 They just gotta make a few and feel good about themselves.
06:15 I think.
06:17 - Yeah, I think it's one of those deals where,
06:19 they say in the NBA and it's true
06:21 in high level college basketball to make or mislead.
06:23 All of our actions are high level actions,
06:27 obviously to get shots and they're just not dropping.
06:30 Now, can they change that?
06:31 Absolutely.
06:33 It's not like we're doing five out space
06:34 and dribbling and taking bad ones
06:36 like we seen with Syracuse
06:37 or those Pine Bluff teams that we play
06:40 that are just don't run anything to get your guys good shots.
06:43 Now, are they all strip wide opens?
06:45 No, but we just, we've had multiple games
06:49 where it's been like this,
06:50 UW 0 for 9 in the second half from three.
06:54 We scored one field goal in the last eight minutes
06:57 during that game.
06:58 And then like I mentioned, no consecutive field goals
07:02 in the second half against the UConn team,
07:03 you're gonna get buried.
07:04 So I thought defensively, we were pretty good
07:07 holding that team to 76.
07:08 They're at 84 a game about, 84 to 87 if my memory serves.
07:13 So defensively, I thought we were okay.
07:15 We won the glass, I think we were plus six.
07:17 They were plus 14.
07:18 So we did that job.
07:20 But also I said it in the first half on my broadcast,
07:22 like, oh, we won by six on the glass.
07:24 The first half it's like, yeah, they shot 70%.
07:27 (laughing)
07:27 They're taking it out of the net.
07:28 - Nothing to get.
07:29 - Yeah, so there's nothing to get,
07:31 but Coach Hurley's done a fantastic job.
07:34 They look like they did last year
07:35 and they lost three guys to the NBA
07:38 and they look just as good with the same pieces,
07:41 shooter, great big man.
07:44 You know, defensively, if you're watching the game,
07:48 do you notice how we're running,
07:49 slowly we're running our actions towards the half court.
07:52 You know, our dribble handoff stuff
07:53 and our high ball screen stuff was out of 35 feet.
07:56 They were just denying our guards
07:58 and we couldn't turn the corner.
07:59 So we had to go to our pressure releases with Anton,
08:02 who's a fantastic player,
08:04 but he ends up being our primary ball handler
08:06 in the half court.
08:07 He's more of a cut and spray out threes,
08:10 you know what I mean?
08:11 So they did an excellent job of just denying
08:14 and taking away our perimeter players
08:15 and it was really tough.
08:17 It was a tough watch, but it was also a tough match.
08:20 This is a really good basketball team.
08:21 We have to give them some credit
08:22 that this is like a legit Final Four contender.
08:24 - Yeah, no, I think UConn's legit Final Four.
08:27 They could repeat again,
08:28 which hasn't happened in quite some time.
08:30 When you look at Gonzaga's three losses,
08:33 the two against, so UConn and Purdue
08:37 were ranked in the top four, top five.
08:39 In the UW game, I think there were three
08:41 of their final 18 from the field with six turnovers.
08:44 You've seen the ascension of the program.
08:47 You're around watching a lot of the games
08:49 at Jack and Dan's where the diehards go.
08:52 What's the sense when you listen to people at the bar?
08:56 - You know, everybody's got an opinion,
08:58 which is nice sometimes.
09:00 And other times you just, you smile
09:02 and you shake your head and you say,
09:03 okay, that's a good idea.
09:05 You know, there's a lot of naysayers.
09:07 There's a lot of people who still have a lot of faith.
09:08 I mean, I think that, like we all said,
09:12 if they don't shoot a little bit better,
09:14 I mean, Mo said they played defense hard
09:16 in the second half.
09:16 I thought they played the whole game pretty hard defensively.
09:19 You know, they went to the glass, but we shot it so bad.
09:22 There's gonna be a lot of opportunities also.
09:24 But I think everybody has a little faith in the staff
09:28 and in the history.
09:29 What they've done here the last 23 years is remarkable.
09:33 And somebody had a little article in the paper
09:36 the other day, I think it was Meehan saying,
09:38 "We got time to sharpen our skills a little bit
09:40 "in the WCC, not that it's a dog,
09:42 "but we'll have some time to get better
09:44 "and feel good about ourselves before we jump back
09:46 "into what is Kentucky, our next big one on the road."
09:49 And that'll be a big one.
09:50 Watch them this weekend.
09:51 So, you know, we got faith.
09:54 We're not jumping off any cliffs
09:57 and thinking we're done and it's over.
09:59 It's just a couple losses.
10:01 It's just, we're not used to them.
10:02 - And they're good losses.
10:03 - Correct.
10:04 - A loss is never good, but they're against good teams.
10:06 And you clean up a couple things
10:09 and it is a one-two possession game against Purdue.
10:12 You clean up some turnovers, make a shot, you beat U-Dub.
10:15 The UConn game is the only one I really feel,
10:18 and you guys gave me your take,
10:19 that they were truly out of early.
10:21 - Yeah, no, the game was out of hand early.
10:24 It was just a complete mismatch.
10:27 I mean, this team, not this team,
10:29 but Gonzaga last year was 15 and five at one point
10:31 and everybody said, "This guy is falling."
10:34 Once we lost to LMU and we ended up going
10:36 in the lead eight.
10:37 So I think the biggest difference from last year's team
10:40 to this year's team is a true go-to guy.
10:43 And that's what we're still trying to find.
10:45 Graham E.K. has been fine at stretches,
10:47 but there's been times when he hasn't.
10:49 Same with Nolan Hickman.
10:50 Nolan Hickman's had only two games
10:52 where he's scored under 10 points.
10:54 So he's had a fantastic season moving off the ball.
10:57 Nem Hardt's had two really good games
10:59 and he's had some not so great games.
11:01 You know what I'm saying?
11:01 But like, who do we throw the ball to down the stretch?
11:04 Who's a guy that can at least create foul pressure
11:07 and get us some thrust towards the rim
11:08 and create plays for others?
11:10 That's the difference from last year's team,
11:12 who had losses.
11:13 I mean, we got our tails kicked last year by Purdue
11:15 and everybody's, "We can't play."
11:16 Then we lose to LMU at home.
11:18 Oh my God, we lost to WCC.
11:20 - Right.
11:21 - But that's the biggest piece for me.
11:23 Obviously the shooting piece is concerning
11:25 because of the sample size,
11:28 but we could throw it to Drew Timmy last year
11:30 and then Julian could get hot
11:32 and he's having a fantastic-- - And make a big shot.
11:35 - And make a big shot, exactly.
11:35 - And that's the thing, we've had a few
11:37 where we were still in reach, even UConn,
11:39 if we made a couple of big ones
11:40 where I don't think there were four shots.
11:42 There was a couple in there.
11:43 It's like, boom, we get this one and then get a stop
11:45 and get the crowd back in.
11:46 - Yes, exactly.
11:47 It was in the building where you get a couple stops
11:50 and you get that three and everybody's on the edge of this.
11:52 Ah, shit, you know, it's one of those.
11:54 - Exactly.
11:55 - And it was just consistently like that.
11:57 So it was frustrating to watch,
11:59 but like I said, that UConn team is built
12:02 like they were last year, man.
12:03 Like it's just, they switch everything,
12:06 they defend the rim,
12:07 and then they know how to get their big guy the ball,
12:09 but it's not just dependent on throwing it to him
12:11 and playing slog, you know what I mean?
12:13 It's multiple actions.
12:15 They turn the corner, if not, they spray it out, whack.
12:18 We made critical mistakes, though, in that first half.
12:21 They ran that flex action to Spencer.
12:23 We go under, removed, they flare, like, remember the flex?
12:27 Whack. - Switch counter.
12:28 - Switch counter.
12:29 And then we had one poor Braden Huff
12:32 who's had a fantastic season.
12:33 We were in our 30 press or one, two, two.
12:35 They throw it to the middle to a non-skill guy,
12:38 and he goes over to help.
12:40 Boom, they throw it to Spencer in the corner, whack again.
12:42 And then it's just like, yank.
12:43 But those are the things I don't think people are seeing
12:47 is if you want to be in these games,
12:49 you can't make those critical errors
12:52 that are basketball one-on-one errors.
12:54 They're just simple.
12:55 You can't go removed on Spencer.
12:57 You got to lock and trail.
12:58 You don't over help strong side corner.
13:00 I mean, we tell our sixth graders that,
13:03 you know what I mean?
13:04 And it's the easiest shot in basketball.
13:05 So that stuff, if we clean up,
13:08 we're going to have a chance to be
13:10 in some of these bigger games.
13:11 But this team's still good.
13:13 I mean, we're eight and three,
13:14 what, at 15th in the country or something like that.
13:16 - Yeah, ranked 15th in the country.
13:16 - Is that what came out today?
13:17 - Yeah, it came out.
13:18 - Which is where we should be, I'd say, you know, right now.
13:21 - I think it's fair. - With how we played.
13:22 Yeah, exactly.
13:23 - And I still think this is a legit
13:24 second weekend possibility team.
13:26 - No. - Sure.
13:27 - Absolutely.
13:28 - I ran into people like, oh, what's wrong?
13:30 Kind of like what you were alluding to.
13:31 They're still really good.
13:32 The bar has just been set so high for so long.
13:35 - Right.
13:36 - You take a loss here or there
13:37 that maybe people aren't anticipating or expecting,
13:41 it can be a shock to people's system.
13:43 You've been around for some time.
13:46 You saw the initial ascension.
13:48 - Yeah.
13:49 - When you look at it,
13:50 how big of an amazement do you have
13:53 about what this program's done?
13:56 - Oh, it's remarkable.
13:57 I mean, you look at it when we were there.
13:58 I mean, Adam, you were coming down
14:00 I think shooting at halftime.
14:01 When all the kids, they'd roll the balls out,
14:03 we'd go back in the locker room
14:04 and the kids would go out and there'd be six or eight balls
14:07 and they'd be shooting or they'd bring their own to the game.
14:09 That's how many guys we had in the stands.
14:10 So you look at that to where it is now, it's unbelievable.
14:15 But just the slow growth, you know,
14:18 with Dan Munson and Fitz and given Dan
14:21 and his guys the opportunity to, you know,
14:25 play a little bit looser to score,
14:27 to get moving a little bit.
14:28 And then obviously when Dan took over
14:30 in the big move in the '99, I think it was,
14:33 it's just been awesome.
14:35 You know, you look at the excitement back then
14:37 when everybody was, you know,
14:38 falling all over themselves
14:39 just to get a look at these guys.
14:40 And can you believe it?
14:41 And the national press as it was, you know,
14:43 we were nobody's back then, you know,
14:45 I think we went down to Utah and got beaten.
14:48 And I T was at the first round of the tournament when we-
14:51 - Oh, the '95 year?
14:52 - Was that the '95 year?
14:52 - Yeah, it was Joe Smith, I think.
14:53 - Yeah, Joe Smith got us, exactly.
14:55 Yeah, and so, and that was exciting.
14:57 He's all get out and then we go in and we, you know,
14:59 win a couple of rounds and then we get beat by Florida
15:01 and it's like, holy cow.
15:02 And then we don't stop, you know,
15:04 it's like, when's it going to stop?
15:05 Well, it doesn't look like it's going to stop anytime soon.
15:08 And take your hats off to the guys over there, you know,
15:11 from the administration on down,
15:12 doing what they need to do to keep reloading.
15:15 And in this time where the money thing
15:17 and all the new stuff coming up and keeping relevant, so.
15:20 - The coaching has been so consistent with Coach Fu.
15:25 We've talked about his evolution as a coach
15:28 in attacking on offense and changing things defensively,
15:33 but he's been the constant.
15:34 He's been the standard bearer.
15:36 You played for a couple of really good coaches,
15:39 but you've also been around a lot of good coaches
15:42 at Jack and Dan's at lunchtime.
15:44 What was that?
15:45 What did they used to call that?
15:47 And how influential do you think those meetings
15:49 with some of those coaches were for Coach Fu
15:51 early in his time?
15:52 - I think they were influential.
15:53 I mean, you got, you know, Coach Munson Don, the big Munson,
15:57 and then you had Jud Heath out in there
15:59 probably every Wednesday or Thursday, you know,
16:02 and they'd sit down in the front and Jack would, you know,
16:05 give him a what's up and give him his two cents worth.
16:07 And it's gutsy to walk into the tavern at lunch
16:10 and try to have a real meeting with everybody who thinks,
16:12 you know, they're the number one.
16:14 You know how that is.
16:15 And, you know, they played in high school
16:18 and their dad was a coach, so they obviously know.
16:20 But they'd-
16:21 - Good way to put it.
16:22 (laughing)
16:24 - They sat and they hammered a lot of things out.
16:27 You know, they really pushed that,
16:29 the defense that Coach Munson senior, you know,
16:33 the zone kind of a three, two matchup
16:36 and would talk about it.
16:38 And then, you know, Jud was always in with his man to man
16:40 and pushing it.
16:41 But I think it just gave him a perspective
16:42 from guys who had won, you know,
16:44 and won on the highest levels
16:45 and coached the highest athletes who'd been out there,
16:48 some of the best ever play.
16:49 And I think if you don't take that in as a coach,
16:52 you know, you're missing a great opportunity.
16:55 And to have that here in Spokane, you know,
16:57 at Jack and Dan's at lunchtime,
16:59 pretty neat for Fuey and for him to take advantage of it.
17:02 And Dan also, you know, for his time.
17:04 - I have a good Heathcote story.
17:07 So I was, I think it was after my rookie year,
17:10 Jud would go up and play golf at Wandermires,
17:13 my home course.
17:14 Bob Ross is the owner still.
17:17 And I go in there one day
17:19 and usually like Bob would,
17:20 all right, if I was with a buddy, like,
17:22 hey, can I hop off on nine or 10 just to get going?
17:25 And he knew I'd play fast.
17:26 So go out there one day, it's really busy.
17:28 And I don't go in to see Bob
17:30 'cause I know he's probably gonna say no.
17:31 So I just go on 10.
17:33 He comes running out there and it's Heathcote
17:35 and his buddy's behind.
17:37 And he's like, hey, stop.
17:38 He's like, you're gonna get me killed.
17:40 Jud's right behind me.
17:42 So I say, oh, it's coach Heathcote.
17:43 I'm like, all right, I'll, you know, I'll wait, of course.
17:46 And he's like, oh, hey, Adam.
17:48 And he's like, how you doing coach?
17:50 You know what I mean?
17:50 He goes, hey, thanks to you.
17:51 I had to watch 82 really bleeping NBA games
17:55 and then teed off and that's all he said to me.
17:58 Thanks coach.
17:59 You know what I mean?
17:59 He was like, good to see you.
18:00 But yeah, he was like, thanks a lot, buddy.
18:02 But yeah, Jud was funny.
18:04 He was legendary.
18:05 I'm a, I like to play poker.
18:07 There's all, everybody has a story of him
18:08 in his poker game.
18:09 They used to do whatever,
18:10 any fannies or whatever it was, but.
18:12 - Oh yeah, I've heard of the day.
18:13 - Jud was awesome.
18:14 He was a crotchety old man.
18:15 And I mean that with all due respect,
18:17 but he had all the jokes and it was just like,
18:20 turn your recorder on when he's telling you a story.
18:23 - Pay attention, right?
18:24 - Yeah, it was hilarious.
18:25 - You got any good Jud Heathcote stories then?
18:28 'Cause I'm sure you've heard plenty.
18:29 - I've heard plenty, but I think he played a lot of handball
18:32 and he was quite good back in the day.
18:34 And a buddy of mine, Scott McIntosh played with him
18:36 and as Jud got older, he moved less and less.
18:39 And he'd sit basically in the middle of the court.
18:42 And if you weren't running around him,
18:44 it'd get frustrating.
18:45 And the story goes, Scott, he's like,
18:48 for crime and he sakes Jud,
18:50 if you were a fricking bird feeder,
18:51 the birds would shit all over you.
18:53 (laughing)
18:54 And Jud's barking, you just handle your end.
18:56 And so that was the story.
18:57 And I asked Jud about it and he just smiled.
19:00 - Yeah, I remember it was open gyms.
19:03 Coaches couldn't, supposed to watch open gyms.
19:07 And you occasionally played with our group still,
19:10 but the coaches would be up top watching
19:12 at the old Martin Center.
19:14 - Yeah, but occasionally Jud would come watch
19:17 and they would put a, one of the managers
19:19 would put a folding chair right at half court.
19:21 And he'd cross his leg and he'd just be sitting there
19:23 watching the games like this.
19:25 And I remember, I didn't know him too well at the time,
19:28 but I shot a pull up three in transition.
19:31 He stood up and started yelling at me, cursing at me.
19:35 - No kidding.
19:36 - In the middle of open gym.
19:37 And I'm like, okay.
19:40 And I don't think I shot a transition pull up three
19:42 the rest of the day when he was there.
19:44 I just, but it was--
19:46 - That's what you're supposed to do.
19:47 Yeah, in open gym.
19:48 - Now it's, yeah, now it's everybody shoots those.
19:50 It's funny.
19:51 - Yeah, you test your skills, but you know what?
19:53 He coached Magic Johnson, he coached some of the greats.
19:56 I think I need to take that constructive criticism
19:58 and roll it. - No doubt, no doubt.
19:59 Jud.
20:00 - So, you've been around and seen many great players
20:05 along the time here at Gonzaga.
20:08 And you've played with one of the all-time greats in John.
20:10 - Right.
20:11 - What, in your eyes, separated John
20:14 from being a really good college player that was unknown
20:17 to then allowing him to have one
20:18 of the greatest careers ever?
20:20 - You know, he's got an inner drive, which you guys know.
20:23 You've seen him whenever he laces them up,
20:27 he's got a different look in his face.
20:29 And whether you see it when he walks out, it's there.
20:34 And, you know, I really hadn't,
20:36 I knew it competing against him.
20:38 You know, he came back from his brother's wedding reception,
20:41 was married the day before when I came to campus in '83
20:45 for an official visit and, you know, and practice,
20:49 as it were, and he drove back.
20:50 He's like new guy on campus, you know, transferring a year.
20:53 He's got a year under his belt.
20:55 And he showed up with the sole purpose to kick my ass
20:58 for 40 minutes or 50 or however long we were going to play.
21:01 That was his sole purpose.
21:02 And we still work out regularly now, three days a week
21:05 when he's in Europe now visiting the kids.
21:07 But he looked at me the other, you know, a month or two ago.
21:11 He goes, that was my goal every day,
21:13 every day when we worked out,
21:14 whether it was off season from the NBA,
21:16 whether it was that I'm going to make you understand
21:18 who's a better player here today,
21:20 whether I got any in or none in or a few, that was his goal.
21:23 And I think that kind of focus,
21:25 I mean, I went to win every day, don't get me wrong.
21:27 And I think I did a pretty good job
21:28 of going to win every day and competing and giving it all.
21:31 But I don't know that I looked like I'm going to make sure,
21:33 Dan, if we're playing today,
21:34 that you don't get it up past half court
21:37 for that goal to say, that's what I'm going to do to you.
21:39 And you know, you played an Adam against the best of you
21:43 in the top league there is, it's a little different.
21:45 And, you know, and you guys have played enough with John
21:47 when he could still play, you know,
21:49 when still in the league where he's bringing it.
21:52 And it's going to be not just a little Sunday league,
21:54 but whenever he's playing,
21:56 whether he's trying to teach somebody or he's in,
21:59 he's focused, he's on, got one thing.
22:01 And that's improving himself too in the process.
22:05 - How do you think that approach has rubbed off
22:07 on the program all these years later?
22:08 'Cause I remember when I first got to Gonzaga,
22:12 I'm like, I had a chance to learn from John,
22:15 talk to him, watch him, work out with him as things went on.
22:18 How has he kind of, his approach rubbed off on the program?
22:22 - I think it had to have, throughout the years,
22:24 obviously when he was still playing in a huge way,
22:27 'cause he could show as much as he would tell you.
22:29 And, you know, and you guys having a chance to talk
22:31 and there's tricks in this game and things you learn
22:34 that, you know, being in the league that John
22:36 and I have talked about, just getting ripped
22:38 when you're like, what the heck just happened by a guy?
22:40 And the guy looks at you like, you know,
22:42 hey, don't let that happen again.
22:44 And you're like, well, what the hell just happened?
22:46 You know, I'd like to know,
22:47 but it's a simple little thing where they've been,
22:48 somebody taught them, you know, the Gary Patens
22:51 or whoever that may be, the guys ahead of you,
22:52 the Ricky Greens for John and the Sunday league
22:55 that he had in, and I don't think it's still going.
22:58 It maybe it is not to the extent,
23:00 but just there's been a couple of stories written about it,
23:03 just you're going there to play and get better.
23:05 And just that attitude and the guards that have come
23:07 through you guys, obviously, and moved on.
23:10 But even the big guys, just seeing,
23:12 seeing that there's a little different,
23:14 it takes a little bit more, you know,
23:16 and with our success in the league right now,
23:18 it had to have rubbed off.
23:19 I mean, it had to have something,
23:20 not I'm not saying it's John, you know,
23:22 I know guys are like, oh my God, without him.
23:23 And I'm like, you know, he's with us, he's part of it.
23:27 It's got to have something to do with it, you know,
23:28 and guys bringing guys like you and you guys competing
23:32 at that level and teaching it to the next guys.
23:34 - So talking about guards,
23:36 obviously Nemhard was a great transfer,
23:39 or one of the bigger transfers in the portal.
23:41 Then Hickman moved off the ball
23:43 and they played heavy minutes.
23:45 Have you watched the Kranjovic kid much,
23:47 a little bit, the backup, the kid from Croatia?
23:49 - I haven't seen a lot of him now.
23:50 I have been in practice, right.
23:52 - Okay, so I want to take your take then, Dan,
23:55 is how much do you think his injured hand,
23:59 I don't think has it come out that it's broken yet,
24:01 but I know it's injured, injured.
24:03 How much do you think it's going to hurt down the stretch,
24:05 just not having a third guard,
24:07 even though he wasn't playing heavy minutes,
24:09 but like a bona fide third guard?
24:10 How do you think that's going to hurt us?
24:12 - I think it's huge.
24:13 I personally was hoping they were going to get him
24:16 into the rotation a little sooner,
24:17 even like not for 20 minutes a game,
24:20 but you get him a five minute stretch in the first half.
24:23 If he plays well,
24:24 then you give him another five in the second.
24:26 If he doesn't play great in the first,
24:27 you give him maybe a two minute stretch,
24:29 see if he's kind of rejuvenated himself.
24:32 We both as young players have been through that before.
24:35 If you don't play, if you play well,
24:37 you get another chance.
24:38 If you don't, you're not probably going to play
24:39 in the second half, but I think that was important.
24:43 And unfortunately now with the injury,
24:45 he's not going to be able to do that.
24:46 And so are they going to be stuck
24:50 with a seven man rotation for sure,
24:52 going into middle of the WCC play before,
24:57 I mean, how much time is he going to have
24:58 to earn Coach Fuchs' trust, to earn his teammates' trust,
25:01 to pick up the small tweaks that happen
25:04 once you get into league and the adjustments?
25:06 - Yeah, I think it'll move Stromer over
25:08 to like the third ball handler responsibility.
25:12 And then you got to think June's going to get more time
25:14 to take minutes away from Stromer
25:16 to be able to do that backup guard spot.
25:18 But it definitely was a weird injury
25:20 that apparently happened in shoot around.
25:23 I always liked this game, but I don't see everything.
25:26 I don't see how he can defend or things of that nature.
25:30 So like when he's not playing, I always go, okay,
25:32 they're obviously seeing something in practice.
25:34 This is not just a, I'm not playing a guy,
25:36 I did not play him.
25:37 But it'll be fascinating because I mean,
25:40 if you look at Nembhard and Hickman's minutes,
25:43 they got to be in the 38s, 37s.
25:45 And if they're lower, it's because we have had
25:47 the Eastern Oregons, the Pine Bluffs, right?
25:50 So they're in the true bigger games.
25:52 They're playing almost 40 minutes a night.
25:55 Now, I always had the thought process,
25:59 and it's like, well, there's like six TV timeouts,
26:03 you should be all right.
26:04 But at some point, that wear and tear
26:07 and that length of a playing time
26:08 or a longer stretch can make a difference.
26:11 And maybe that's the reason we're not scoring
26:12 as much from the perimeter, especially in second halves,
26:15 like we referenced the UW game and obviously this last game.
26:18 But I think his injury is big
26:20 just because you don't have the option.
26:22 Even if you weren't going to use the option,
26:24 you don't have it.
26:26 So it'll be interesting to see how Coach Pugh
26:29 kind of tweaks that or moves June into that spot,
26:34 or if he tells Dusty, all right,
26:36 we're going to play you three guards,
26:38 even though you're already playing at the same time.
26:41 One of you will sub, June will go in,
26:43 and then we'll just kind of rotate one, two, and three.
26:45 You get what I'm saying?
26:46 So it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.
26:49 - The interesting one, I think, is,
26:51 I didn't know this until recently reading an article,
26:54 but Brayden Huff played point guard in high school.
26:55 - Oh, that's interesting.
26:56 - No kidding.
26:57 - Yeah, so I'm curious if maybe they use
27:01 kind of a point forward because, I mean,
27:03 he could score on the interior,
27:05 but his strength as of now is kind of those threes,
27:08 pick and pop, trail threes, he's got soft touch.
27:11 If you're having issues bringing a ball up against pressure,
27:14 have him be your pressure release
27:16 and bring it up and enter it,
27:17 because most of this stuff
27:18 is continuity ball screen stuff anyways.
27:20 They can make a small adjustment,
27:21 hit and he gets into something.
27:23 - Yeah, it'd be interesting.
27:25 - When you look at the Ben Gregg minutes,
27:30 I think he's been a big energy guy off the bench.
27:34 - No doubt.
27:35 - But I keep wanting more,
27:35 and I think he's on the verge of a big breakout.
27:38 He had a good game against USC.
27:41 He hasn't quite gotten maybe that 18, 19, 20 point game
27:44 that I think he's capable of.
27:46 What type of mindset is necessary
27:50 to finally break through that from your experience?
27:52 - I think he's just got to get in
27:54 when he makes a couple shots early,
27:56 'cause he's always affecting things with his hustle.
27:58 He's in the rebound and he's in slapping at balls.
28:00 He's got five fouls to give
28:03 and he usually uses a good three or four of them
28:05 in his minutes if he's playing.
28:07 But it's that confidence.
28:10 When he strokes a first one or gets himself a tip in
28:13 and the energy thing going,
28:14 then his energy is definitely contagious on that team,
28:18 and they need that, I think.
28:21 Nolan doesn't have a lot of expressions.
28:23 He's very just stone-faced, to be honest with you.
28:28 And I think they need the big man in the middle, Graham.
28:33 He's got the same.
28:34 He's not a real expression guy.
28:35 I think they need somebody to fire things up a little bit.
28:38 Dusty seems to have a little bit of emotion when he's going.
28:41 Obviously, Anton does, and he's kind of the constant.
28:44 I don't think they can expect 28 out of him a game.
28:47 Maybe.
28:48 In league, I think he'll get it loosened up a little bit,
28:50 but I think the big man, Greg, I think he brings a lot.
28:55 I don't think he can guard a real big guy,
28:58 but he can definitely compete in there and play hard.
29:01 But their whole thing from the get-go,
29:03 if they got to hit some shots, it's a whole new team.
29:06 - Absolutely.
29:07 I think that solves a lot of things.
29:08 I mean, making shots covers up some deficiencies
29:13 that you may have, but two for 12,
29:17 and then we talked about the 0 for 9
29:19 in the second half of the G-Dub.
29:20 If we make two shots against U-Dub and get that win,
29:23 we're talking, "Well, we've only lost
29:24 "to two top five teams," you know what I'm saying?
29:26 So the narrative would be a little bit different.
29:28 - Well, they'd probably be ranked, you know, 15 is great.
29:31 20 years ago, we'd, "Hey, we're ranked 15.
29:33 "This is unbelievable."
29:34 I think it's the longest streak of being ranked.
29:36 I think it's like 171 weeks now
29:39 I think Guns N' Roses has been ranked.
29:41 But yeah, it's like if you do win that U-Dub game,
29:44 you're probably ranked eighth right now.
29:46 That U-Conn game would have been like five versus four.
29:49 - And on the road at the U, that's a great win.
29:52 And our record against the Pac-12's been crazy.
29:54 I didn't know that until I saw it
29:55 in the stats against USC
29:57 of how well we've performed against them.
30:00 - Hey, I wanna ask you about,
30:01 you're the owner of Jack & Dan's,
30:03 one of the best sports bars in America.
30:06 - Appreciate that.
30:07 - Yeah, I've been to plenty of sports bars across country,
30:10 and it's right up there with them.
30:12 What is the atmosphere really like?
30:14 'Cause I've never been there on a game night.
30:16 - Yeah, you guys are working.
30:17 - I usually am at the arena doing our prep,
30:19 run the game, and then I just head straight home.
30:21 But I've heard it's bonkers.
30:23 Explain it. - It's a lot of fun.
30:24 I mean, we get, it's a lot of the,
30:26 the kids kinda come and go
30:28 when they're in late night after a game.
30:30 Pre-game, we've got a lot of the season ticket holders,
30:32 a lot of folks who wanna come in
30:34 and see if there's any tickets available
30:36 for the game from out of town.
30:37 - Is that a great way to find out, scalp tickets?
30:39 - I don't know about scalping.
30:40 We give a lot of tickets away.
30:41 And I mean, especially with some of the pine bluff
30:43 in these games where the season ticket holders
30:46 don't want 'em, they'll drop 'em off to a big guy,
30:48 our manager, and be like,
30:48 "Hey, make sure somebody enjoys 'em."
30:50 And we give 'em away.
30:51 People get an opportunity to go see a game.
30:53 That's what we're after.
30:54 But it's a lot of the same faces.
30:56 And as the games start coming into the league
30:59 and they start mattering a little bit more,
31:00 it's a lot of fun.
31:01 And then most of us take off, we go to the game
31:05 as a season ticket holder myself.
31:07 And then after the games,
31:09 you gotta leave a little early during a good win
31:11 to make sure you get your spot back.
31:13 But it's a lot of energy.
31:14 Everybody's pulling in the same direction.
31:16 A lot of alumni are in there.
31:17 And so a lot of people, the neighborhood folks,
31:21 they've been there for 30, 40 years,
31:22 supporting everybody when they weren't any good.
31:25 And that generation is kind of slowing down,
31:28 but their kids grew up there and their Zags.
31:31 And so when everybody's pulling in the same direction,
31:33 everybody's rooting for the same team, it's fun.
31:36 - I remember driving Nevada Hamilton on the way home
31:40 during the Final Four run a couple of years back.
31:43 Did you guys have an outdoor beer garden going?
31:46 - Yep, we had a big screen going.
31:47 - 20 foot screen?
31:48 - Yeah, a LED screen a buddy of mine has for advertising.
31:51 And he figured out a way to get it through the computer
31:55 to broadcast the game.
31:57 And the weather was beautiful, still getting dark early.
32:00 So we had a ball out there,
32:01 everything except for the victory.
32:03 - Yeah.
32:04 - Yeah.
32:05 - That's good, man.
32:05 Thanks for coming on.
32:06 - Appreciate it.
32:07 - Yeah, good talking to you.
32:08 - Yeah, well, JC, I know you're one of the biggest
32:10 Zag fans out there.
32:11 I know a lot of people, as you mentioned,
32:12 the Jack and Dan's look to you for your opinion
32:15 behind the bar about the current state of affairs.
32:17 So thanks for sharing it with Adam and I.
32:19 - No, thanks for having me.
32:20 Very enjoyable. - Glad to have you here.
32:21 - Merry Christmas to both of you.
32:22 - Yeah, Merry Christmas.
32:23 - Merry Christmas to you as well.
32:24 For Talking Zags, Adam Morrison, myself, Dan Dickow,
32:28 JC, Jeff Condell has been our guest on episode 11.
32:32 (upbeat music)
32:35 (upbeat music)