On this week’s show, Stuart Rayner and Leon Wobschall pay tribute to Sir Bobby Charlton after his recent death, reflecting on his career and life and the wonderful legacy he leaves behind, both on and off the pitch.
Elsewhere, our team assess the promise shown at Hull City under Liam Rosenior, the issues that Darren Moore needs to tackle at a stop-start Huddersfield Town and the positive start made to the season by Barnsley under Neill Collins,just a few months after their oplay-off final heartache against Sheffield Wednesday at Wembley.
And, in a new addition, Stuart and Leon pick out their team of the week and their star player of the week
Elsewhere, our team assess the promise shown at Hull City under Liam Rosenior, the issues that Darren Moore needs to tackle at a stop-start Huddersfield Town and the positive start made to the season by Barnsley under Neill Collins,just a few months after their oplay-off final heartache against Sheffield Wednesday at Wembley.
And, in a new addition, Stuart and Leon pick out their team of the week and their star player of the week
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SportsTranscript
00:00:00 [Music]
00:00:11 Hello and welcome to the latest edition of Football Talk from the Yorkshire Post,
00:00:14 where we will be discussing some of the latest talking points from the world of football
00:00:17 with members of our football writing team.
00:00:19 On this week's episode, we're joined by Chief Football Writer for the Yorkshire Post, Stuart Rayner,
00:00:23 and Football Writer for the Yorkshire Post, Leon Wattrell,
00:00:25 to discuss all of the latest developments affecting our local clubs.
00:00:28 Don't forget you can keep up to date with all the football news across Yorkshire and beyond
00:00:32 by logging onto our website at yp.sport@nationalworld.com,
00:00:36 as well as checking out our various Twitter feeds, the main one being @ypsport.
00:00:41 If you search for Yorkshire Post Sport, Yorkshire Post Football, or even Sheffield Sport on Facebook,
00:00:46 you can find us there as well.
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00:00:52 or email us directly with a subject matter as footballtalkpodcast@yp.sport@nationalworld.com.
00:00:59 YorkshirePost.co.uk
00:01:01 As mentioned earlier in the intro, this week we're joined by Chief Football Writer for the Yorkshire Post,
00:01:05 Stuart Rayner, and Football Writer for the Yorkshire Post, Leon Wattrell.
00:01:08 Good morning, guys.
00:01:09 Morning.
00:01:10 Morning.
00:01:11 Now, before we get into the analysis of this week's action,
00:01:14 I don't think we can allow the passing of Sir Bobby Charlton to go unmentioned.
00:01:19 Sir Bobby Charlton was not only a magnificent footballer,
00:01:22 but he was also a great ambassador for his club and football in general.
00:01:27 Stuart, I saw that you had a comment piece on him in the Yorkshire Post.
00:01:32 Would you like to share your views?
00:01:35 Well, I think one thing that strikes you is it's 50 years since Bobby Charlton, as he was then,
00:01:42 played top-level football, and yet I suspect that on the day he died, pretty much,
00:01:49 well, certainly most British adults would have known who he was.
00:01:54 You know, his legacy lived on so long, and, you know, obviously it's always a sad time
00:02:05 when somebody like that passes away.
00:02:07 As you said there in your intro, not just a great footballer, but a really well-respected person
00:02:16 and human being.
00:02:19 But, you know, I think there were quite uplifting moments about it,
00:02:26 and it's been quite nice this last week to go around football grounds which weren't closely associated
00:02:34 to Bobby Charlton, and hear fan bases singing his name.
00:02:40 You know, I was there at Rotherham on Wednesday night, as was his brother Tommy,
00:02:45 and I would hope that he and the rest of the family took a lot of solace from hearing
00:02:53 Rotherham and Coventry City fans singing 'There's Only One Bobby Charlton' that night.
00:02:59 And another thing, you know, when somebody like that dies, it's nice that you sort of get an opportunity
00:03:08 to revisit their lives.
00:03:11 There'll be television programmes about them, you know, there'll be radio shows, podcasts,
00:03:18 full of memories about him.
00:03:20 There'll be people searching YouTube to watch some of his great goals, and, as I said,
00:03:26 most British adults will have known that Bobby Charlton was a great footballer.
00:03:32 Many of them will have learnt a lot more about him this last week, you know,
00:03:36 seen just how good some of his goals were, heard some of the stories about the player he was.
00:03:42 I think that's the nice thing about what's obviously a very difficult time for all the people,
00:03:50 whether they knew him or not, who loved this great man.
00:03:55 Yeah, I'd echo what Stuart says. I think it's twofold really.
00:04:00 I mean, he was obviously a little bit too young to remember watching him,
00:04:07 but all the footage you see, he's got that patent of that driving midfielder,
00:04:14 powering forward with a sledgehammer of a shot as well.
00:04:20 I mean, obviously a world-class footballer, and in his time he got plenty of personal awards
00:04:28 alongside winning everything, winning the European Cup in '68 with United.
00:04:38 So, you know, a player of, you know, a regarded...
00:04:43 The term world-class is overused, but it certainly applies with Sir Bobby.
00:04:51 In terms of the sixes in his area, he was up there with the Esebios and Franz Beckenbauer and Pelé.
00:05:02 He belongs in that path.
00:05:05 And then there's his individual story as well.
00:05:11 A humble Northeasterner, a modest guy, self-effacing,
00:05:17 and everybody knows what he went through in 1958.
00:05:23 It's just hard to still, now all these years on, fathom what he actually went through.
00:05:31 People he grew up with coming through at United,
00:05:37 taken away from him, and he's had to carry that burden for the rest of his life.
00:05:47 It probably even touches a guilt as well, you know, his friends died and why did I survive?
00:05:52 That sort of thing.
00:05:55 You just can't comprehend what he went through.
00:06:01 To rebuild his career as well from that time, reach the top of his profession,
00:06:07 is staggering and all power to him.
00:06:12 I think I read somewhere on Sunday, and I totally agree with it,
00:06:18 it's almost like a little piece of England that sort of died as well.
00:06:22 He stood for as a human being, being modest, self-effacing,
00:06:27 no sort of grandstanding or showing off in his character or make-up.
00:06:37 Some probably would have done, wouldn't they really, but that wasn't what Sir Bobby was all about.
00:06:44 I think as well, something that probably touched on as well,
00:06:47 I've sort of read and probably is important more so in the context of Manchester United,
00:06:54 in the difficult times in the late 80s, probably the start of the 90s,
00:06:59 that Alex Ferguson endured, he was by all accounts Sir Bobby was probably one of two others,
00:07:06 but that was about it, with rocks solid and Stalwalt in the back towards Sir Alex
00:07:13 and saying it'll tear, we'll get things right, and standing full square behind him.
00:07:19 What a decision that was in the context of United and for English football.
00:07:26 Alongside his massive qualities as a footballer,
00:07:32 I think just as important is to recognise his values as a person.
00:07:36 Yeah, I think that's really important, Leon, and that's the thing, as I say,
00:07:41 it's 50 years since he played at the top level, he only had a brief run in management
00:07:47 and it didn't go very well with Preston Northend, but he still managed to have such a big influence on the game.
00:07:53 After that, as you say, his support for Alex Ferguson, he set up the Bobby Charlton Soccer Schools,
00:08:00 which obviously did a lot for young kids, most notably David Beckham came through that.
00:08:06 He did a lot of work to help the Olympics come to London in 2012.
00:08:12 But I think more than anything, I think we're talking about a footballer,
00:08:16 it's probably not too great an exaggeration, it's difficult for Leon and I to say,
00:08:20 not having been born when he was playing, but we're probably talking about a footballer
00:08:25 on a not dissimilar level to Messi and Ronaldo. But I think, you know,
00:08:32 Leon's already mentioned Manchester United a couple of times, I've mentioned David Beckham there,
00:08:37 he's very closely associated with Manchester United, we know they're a Marmite football club,
00:08:42 but still there's a universal respect for him and I don't think it's just because he did what he did for England,
00:08:49 I think it's those human qualities that we've already mentioned.
00:08:53 The fact that he was so humble, the fact that he did clearly just love football,
00:08:58 he wasn't a perfect human being because there's never been a perfect human being,
00:09:03 but we've heard so many good stories about how he was so good to fellow professionals,
00:09:10 to members of the public, just enthusiastic about football, keen to see all footballers do well
00:09:17 and make the most of their potential, and to have all those qualities and still have the competitive spirit
00:09:24 to make yourself one of the best footballers in the world.
00:09:28 Leon and I were both born in the 70s and for people our age growing up,
00:09:33 Bobby Chant was just a name synonymous with football and what was good about football
00:09:39 and I think that's why he's probably hit a few people quite hard the last week,
00:09:45 even though he's basically been really hidden from public view for the last couple of years
00:09:51 because of the horrible illness he's had with his dementia, it still comes as a bit of a shock
00:10:01 and it still hits you a bit because he's just one of those figures that you just always associate with the game
00:10:09 and with the good things about the game. It's sad that he's gone but as I say,
00:10:15 it's nice that people have been reminded that you can be a genuinely nice guy and a top footballer as well.
00:10:22 You just think of Bobby and he's obviously been to hundreds of dinners and posh do's,
00:10:30 things like that, but you just get the image of him, he would have been never happier
00:10:34 when he could put a mix on the training ground with Manchester United players
00:10:39 and particularly in the night as you'd see pictures of him at training sessions with Sir Alex Ferguson
00:10:47 and that just seemed to be Bobby, didn't he? A working class lad who was totally in love with football,
00:10:58 games and not all the modern day trappings of it and getting pats on the back every five minutes.
00:11:06 He was a footballer man, he seemed never happier than when he was in the surroundings of his club
00:11:16 and the next generation of footballers coming through and you listen to the comments of the likes of
00:11:26 Beckham, the Neville brothers etc. and it's clear to see that he was a massive influence upon them
00:11:37 in the background and he'll have been delighted at the stellar careers that they have.
00:11:43 And now we turn to the main body of the podcast and this week we saw the return of league football
00:11:51 to the Wotherham United game against Ipswich Town being called off due to the weather
00:11:56 before playing out a 2-0 victory against Coventry City. Leeds United pulled off an amazing second half
00:12:02 comeback to claim all three points against Norwich City which was followed by a 1-0 defeat
00:12:07 against Stoke City which was incredibly frustrating. Sheffield Wednesday's search for their first win
00:12:12 of the season continues after their defeat at Watford which was followed by a disappointing 3-0 defeat
00:12:18 against Plymouth Argyle. Middlesbrough claimed a late 1-0 victory over Birmingham City and followed it up
00:12:24 with a 2-1 victory over Norwich City. Doncaster Rovers claimed a 2-1 victory over Tranmere Rovers
00:12:32 and we also saw Bradford City have to share the points in their 1-1 meeting with Wrexham.
00:12:38 Harrogate Town claimed a valuable 2-1 victory over Colchester United before falling to a 4-1 defeat
00:12:46 at home to Mansfield Town. Now let's start in the Premier League with Sheffield United who fell to a
00:12:54 2-1 defeat when they hosted Manchester United. The Blades fell behind in the 28th minute before
00:13:00 Olly McBurney levelled the score from the penalty spot six minutes later. However the visitors retook
00:13:06 the lead with less than 20 minutes left and claimed all three points. What was your assessment of the game
00:13:13 and where can the team improve ahead of their game against Arsenal Stewart?
00:13:17 I think one encouraging thing for Sheffield United, we've seen them play a few of the division's big guns
00:13:28 this season. You can argue whether Manchester United are one of those right now, the form they're in,
00:13:32 but nevertheless, you know what I mean, high profile clubs. And we've seen them play very defensively
00:13:39 frankly. We've seen them on part with Bust against Manchester City, it was pretty similar against Tottenham.
00:13:45 Hit them both with a clever council tap but nevertheless quite a necessarily negative game plan.
00:13:53 But this time against Manchester United they were a lot more positive. They were the better team frankly
00:13:59 for the first half hour until Scott McTominay scored. And you know one of the interesting facts
00:14:07 about it was it was forced on them by injuries but they switched to a back four to a 4-4-2.
00:14:14 Obviously Sheffield United for a long time now we've sort of associated with back threes
00:14:21 but they look good for it actually. Hamer and McAtee playing out wide in the midfield
00:14:28 got into the game quite a lot. It seemed a good way to have both of those in the team
00:14:34 without losing too much defensively. They looked solid but they were a lot more ambitious
00:14:40 than they'd been in those games. And Paul Higginbottom said after the game that it was something
00:14:46 he'd been considering regardless of the injury that came to Ahmad Hodic which forced him.
00:14:54 We'll never know what would have happened if he were fit but maybe there's just a little bit
00:14:59 of a blueprint there for how they can improve and take things on.
00:15:06 We talked on the last podcast about how Wolves was the really big game coming up. Arsenal
00:15:12 is the last game before that. We were saying last week they needed to use these two games
00:15:18 beforehand to really get in good shape mentally for Wolves. Well I guess tactically as well.
00:15:24 I think that was a positive for them. Even though Sheffield United got back into it with
00:15:34 Oli McBurnie's injury, I think once McTominay scored Manchester United took a lot more confidence
00:15:40 and in fairness took control of the game. McBurnie's injury which he was carrying even
00:15:46 when he scored his penalty certainly didn't help. So by no means have Sheffield United's
00:15:54 problems been solved with that performance but it was just a little pointer perhaps as
00:16:01 to the way to go in future. They do need to start picking up points. They're not going
00:16:08 to stay up by points deductions for other teams. They have to take things into their
00:16:17 own hands. They have to start picking up points. Yes it's true to say that we'll be saying
00:16:23 next week they're always going to struggle to get something out of Arsenal just like
00:16:27 we've been saying about Manchester United this week but somewhere along the line they
00:16:32 have to start picking up wins because already teams are starting to pull away from them.
00:16:39 Yes you look at the predicament they're in and this is often the way with a side who
00:16:49 are clearly struggling and it was always going to be a struggle wasn't it? Having touches
00:16:56 of injury misportion that could so much do without. At the minute I just think you've
00:17:03 got to be pragmatic and the main thing is just trying to somehow keep in touch with
00:17:09 the team who are fourth from bottom. Obviously at the minute it's Luton and United play them
00:17:19 over Christmas and that'll be a huge game. Just to keep the fingers crossed that they're
00:17:27 still going to be in the game as we get into the depths of winter. Obviously huge games
00:17:36 against Wolves and Chips to Burnley as well. You just think for their own sake they're
00:17:47 going to have to dig out a win pretty soon or else it will become psychological on the
00:17:56 top of everything else when you go in this long without a victory. There have been some
00:18:04 half decent performances along the way that have had touches of luck have gone against
00:18:08 them alongside the injury problems. One or two heavy beatings including a huge defeat
00:18:17 obviously. You just hope for their own sense of well-being and Paul Higginbottom's as well
00:18:25 that they can dig out something from somewhere because obviously it was a pretty characterful
00:18:34 spirited performance and several ticks in the boxes against Manchester United. But no
00:18:40 points again and they're taking a lot of punishment.
00:18:44 I mentioned the points deduction earlier. There's been reports this week that the Premier
00:18:50 League is going to ask for Everton to be deducted 12 points because of financial fair play regulations
00:18:57 and all that sort of thing. But that's something that's going to drag on. I don't think we're
00:19:03 going to know at the very least until the second half of next season if that's being
00:19:09 resolved. I think it might not even be resolved this season. So it's not something that Sheffield
00:19:15 United can bank on but I guess it's another slight encouragement. But ultimately as we
00:19:22 both said they need to start taking things into their own hands and picking up points.
00:19:27 We can make excuses for this game and that game saying they weren't expected to win this,
00:19:33 they weren't expected to get points out of that. They just have to get points from somewhere.
00:19:37 We did highlight Wolves the other week as a big opportunity but they can't pick and
00:19:44 choose. If Arsenal are slightly off it and they have a bit of that bad luck repaid or
00:19:54 if Arsenal get some freak injury or something like that they've got to pounce on it and
00:19:58 take the chance. If they don't get the chance they've got to move on to the next game and
00:20:02 take it again. But the one encouraging thing about that Manchester United game was they
00:20:08 are still fighting. That is one thing you can always say about this group. They are
00:20:14 a group of fighters but fighting alone doesn't get you by in the Premier League. You don't
00:20:21 survive in the best league in the world by just fighting. You've got to have quality
00:20:25 as well. They need to find a bit more from somewhere because it's looking like it will
00:20:34 be a very grim season if they don't.
00:20:36 Obviously there are starting to get similarities with the last time the World Cup was won a
00:20:43 few years ago. Regardless of the teams who play them, they've probably got 10-11 games
00:20:51 now until the turn of the year. In crude terms they're probably going to have to win at the
00:20:57 very least two or three of them. Possibly three or four to give them some sort of fighting
00:21:04 chance. If they can get a few wins in this spell up until January then there is a little
00:21:12 bit of hope to hopefully readdress things in the winter window to give themselves a
00:21:18 snip. But to do that they're going to have to get at least for me two or three wins,
00:21:25 three really, just to give themselves a fighting chance or the narrative of the season will
00:21:32 be there before January.
00:21:34 Next we turn our attention to the Championship and Hull City who fell to a 2-0 defeat when
00:21:40 they hosted Southampton. This was then followed by a 2-0 victory when they paid a visit to
00:21:45 Birmingham City. This sees the Tigers sitting just outside the playoff spots on 20 points.
00:21:51 With Liam Rossini's men in the position that they are now, do you feel that he'll be pleased
00:21:56 with the team's performances, Liam?
00:21:58 I think on the one hand there's a fair bit to be pleased about. You look at Hull this
00:22:04 time last year they were without a manager and just outside of the relegation zone. He's
00:22:12 approaching his first year in charge and he's done some sterling work. He obviously built
00:22:20 the foundation, made them harder to beat and dragged them out of trouble. Now it's on to
00:22:27 the next step. An important win in midweek against Birmingham coming off the back of
00:22:33 the game against Southampton at home on Saturday which I actually covered. Very frustrating
00:22:41 from a Hull perspective. They've been hard to beat at home and I think they've not been
00:22:48 hard to beat prior to Saturday at home. I think it was something like April 1st when
00:22:52 Burnley beat them. So difficult to beat on home soil but the number of draws that were
00:23:00 creeping in and talk about the lack of roof and finishing off teams and obviously showing
00:23:08 a lot of good play offensively going forward but you need to match that up with weight
00:23:15 and goals and they've been suffering from that in some regards. Hull not floating like
00:23:24 a butterfly but sort of stinging like one almost. He spoke afterwards with Senior about
00:23:33 getting that balance and being a little bit pragmatic between maybe shoring up his side
00:23:39 a little bit and then obviously they've got quite a lot of the flare players, the Scott
00:23:45 Twine, the Philly Jeans and just getting that happy medium. It was a little bit self-inflicted
00:23:51 in the end against Southampton but they switched off right at the death and Southampton got
00:23:57 to win them in the fifth minute of stoppage time. So the talk about not being beaten at
00:24:02 home for so long, it starts to flip around doesn't it? People are looking at it thinking
00:24:07 well we've had six home games with only room one. They're not looking at the fact that
00:24:13 they haven't been beaten. So yeah I think an important game going to Birmingham and
00:24:19 I think in terms of the team selection as well it was interesting to see the way that
00:24:24 Messina would go and he brought in another central defender, he brought in Sean McLachlan
00:24:32 and he was with Alpy Jones and Jacob Greaves. I don't know what Stuart thinks, I quite
00:24:42 like those three when they're together they're what I'd probably call proper defenders
00:24:49 and you've got a good defensive base there for me. It clearly worked for me from a defensive
00:24:57 sense going to Birmingham and getting a clean sheet and getting a good three points and
00:25:02 the form on the road has been decent. I think they've won about four or five games away
00:25:08 from home, the stats are right up there defensively and the fixed to right itinerary has it that
00:25:19 they're at home straight away on Saturday so if they can beat Preston then they can
00:25:28 start addressing that thorny issue of getting more home wins and start on a run again hopefully
00:25:34 because the home numbers aren't great and maybe holding them back a little bit. But
00:25:40 I think in the round in the greater scheme of things Hull are doing pretty well all things
00:25:47 considered. They made some smart buys in the summer, Liam de Lapp I know he missed a couple
00:25:55 of chances against Southampton last weekend, also scored as well it's got to be said.
00:26:03 He's shown a bit of character in netting in the game at St Andrews, he's a young player
00:26:10 with a lot of talent, energy, drive, I like the look of him. Jadon Filiagin as well, he
00:26:15 brings quite a few offensive gifts to the table although I think he'll need to push
00:26:20 up on his defending a little bit given his part in one of Southampton's goals. He's an
00:26:25 exciting player, Scott Twine as well. They're a good, confident, watchable, talented side
00:26:33 going forward but it's that little bit of consistency at home if they can piece together
00:26:41 a few more wins and sort that out a little bit you think they'll be in business.
00:26:48 I think Leon's hit the nail on the head there really. Liam Rossini's been there about a
00:26:55 year now and he's built a really good foundation and what some chairmen don't seem to realise
00:27:04 is if you want to build a foundation for something good, something that will last, it will take
00:27:09 you that sort of time. The next thing is to take it on to the next level and just build
00:27:17 on it. There have been frustrating games, particularly at home where they've drawn and
00:27:23 you've felt like they should win but what Rossini is trying to do is stuff that will
00:27:31 take time. If you'd said to most Hall fans in the state they're in when Shotaro Abeladze
00:27:39 got sacked, when Andy Dawson was caretaker manager last season, that this time next year
00:27:45 you'll be only outside of the play-offs on goal difference, you'd have definitely taken
00:27:50 that. I think there's a lot of good there. They've obviously spent a bit of money on
00:27:57 players like Filigena but Leon mentioned those three centre-backs, they're all players who've
00:28:04 been coached not just by Rossini but Grant McCann and Abeladze as well to turn them from
00:28:10 League One defenders into really high-quality championship defenders. I think Hall are doing
00:28:19 a lot of things right and who knows, I hope not, but maybe this might be a season where
00:28:25 they go close and just fall short and it takes another year for them to get to exactly where
00:28:32 they want to be. But the point is this is a carefully done building process. Although
00:28:38 they've got money they're not throwing it at quick fixes. I think they're trying to
00:28:44 do things the right way and as Leon says they're a good team to watch because of that. I think
00:28:51 it's just a case of putting faith in Rossini, putting faith in the people running the club
00:28:56 because I think most Hall fans would recognise that they're by and large doing that the right
00:29:01 way and build on this foundation that has been laid. It's just a lesson in patience
00:29:12 in a sport where all of us, let's be honest, that includes journalists, fans, chairman
00:29:17 everyone, can be short of patience at times but I think they're gradually working in the
00:29:22 right direction.
00:29:24 Absolutely, I totally agree with that. It's nice and relatively settled now at Hull. We've
00:29:33 touched on the home form, a little bit of an issue there but it's not a massive issue
00:29:37 is it? Let's be honest. It's important to rewrite where they were at this time. Last
00:29:45 year there'd been some scattergun recruitment. You watched them and didn't really know what
00:29:51 they stood for in terms of playing style and it didn't look a really together and coherent
00:30:01 side. Now they are really, aren't they? They're offering quite a bit going forward, just need
00:30:07 to brush up a little bit in the game management and being a little bit more ruthless at the
00:30:15 sharp end of the pitch. If they're in this sort of position when it gets to January,
00:30:21 there should be a lot of optimism among Hull supporters and I don't think they'll have
00:30:26 to necessarily do that much in the January window as well. Maybe one or two here and
00:30:33 there but they've got most things in place really. They've got some very talented players
00:30:39 going forward. They've got a decent understanding at the back and I mentioned earlier, I do
00:30:49 like it when the three of them are in there and Stuart's right to say they've played together
00:30:54 for a wee while now and they know each other's games and there's a bit of understanding.
00:31:02 So, yeah, I think Hull just need to be a little bit mindful with their home form but carry
00:31:09 on regardless and get themselves in a decent position for the new year and if it's around
00:31:15 where they are now, all well and good.
00:31:18 There's different ways to run a football club, there's different ways to play the game but
00:31:24 clubs could do a lot worse than looking at what Hull City have done and trying to copy
00:31:29 a bit of that. They're going about things in a very good way and they're the sort of
00:31:35 club, Rossini's the sort of coach, Ilijali's the sort of personality that you want to see
00:31:41 do well because as we say, they're trying to play entertaining football, they're trying
00:31:46 to get fans involved with the ticket prices and all this sort of thing. You'd rather see
00:31:52 a team succeed that way than in some of their less attractive ways, let's put it that way
00:32:01 in an ideal world. But it will test the patience at times because football's never that straightforward
00:32:09 but personally I've got a lot of faith that Liam Rossini can be a successor at that football
00:32:15 club and there will be the odd wobble but I think it's just a case of sticking with
00:32:23 it and they'll get the rewards I'm sure.
00:32:27 And now we turn our attention to Huddersfield Town who were able to overcome QPR in a 2-1
00:32:34 victory to give Darren Moore his first win as Terriers boss. This was then followed by
00:32:40 a disappointing 4-0 defeat when they went head-to-head with Cardiff City. How important
00:32:46 is it for Darren Moore to get that first victory on the board and how should the Terriers look
00:32:51 at the last two results, Stuart?
00:32:54 Well it was a really curious one because if you'd asked me a couple of days ago how important
00:33:00 was it for Darren Moore to get that first victory on the board, you'd say well it's
00:33:04 vital of course, it changes the whole mindset of a football club, it just instils belief
00:33:11 and all this sort of thing. But on Tuesday there was very, very little evidence of that.
00:33:17 I mean admittedly they went behind to a second-minute own goal so that very quickly changed the
00:33:25 balance but they played with the confidence of a team that looked like it had lost its
00:33:32 last 10 games, not a team that had won its last game. There was just a real timidity
00:33:38 about them, there was a real flatness about the crowd. I don't think they have bought
00:33:45 into what Darren Moore's trying to do. There were so many times when they were frustrating
00:33:53 the crowd, passing the ball around the back because either they didn't have the belief
00:33:59 to play that slightly riskier pass or the players in front of them weren't giving them
00:34:05 the options to play that pass. The defenders were really standing off players, I mean that's
00:34:11 how that first goal was created, standing off Josh Bowler, allowing him to get a cross
00:34:18 in and then Michael Hellick not being close enough to Callum Robinson to actually block
00:34:23 the back heel that came its way. They just looked really, really short on confidence
00:34:29 for a team that had only lost one of its last eight games. Admittedly there have been a
00:34:34 few draws in there but it was one of those where I'd seen them against Chiffa Wednesday
00:34:43 when they were very timid and you could say they let an out-of-form team off the hook
00:34:49 perhaps with a 0-0 draw but at least they were solid enough defensively. I haven't seen
00:34:56 them that often this season and to look at the results and then contrast that with the
00:35:03 performance and the mood of the place was quite telling. It maybe gave you an indication
00:35:09 that those results perhaps being a little bit deceptive, certainly that the fans think
00:35:15 those results have been a little bit deceptive. I just think Darren Moore's got a lot of work
00:35:21 to do to just put some belief in that team, particularly I would have thought when they
00:35:27 concede early goals because it seems that when they do concede an early goal, I mean
00:35:31 the point about conceding in the second minute nowadays with the way games last that means
00:35:36 you've got more than 90 minutes to make up just a one goal deficit but there seems to
00:35:42 be a pattern that when they concede early they often lose quite badly and they need
00:35:48 to shake that, they need to, he just needs to get more belief into them somehow because
00:35:55 they're not, they were way off their potential last night, on Tuesday night. They're not
00:36:02 the most talented squad in the league by a long shot but neither are they as poor as
00:36:08 they played on Tuesday evening because really they were woeful in terms of their, I say
00:36:15 they're defending their timidity on the ball, he needs to get into their heads and get them
00:36:20 so much better because they've got a big game coming up at Leeds United on Saturday and
00:36:25 if they, regardless of result, if they don't show up on Saturday and they put in a performance
00:36:30 of that level then the fans will rightly be furious.
00:36:34 Yeah, I sort of look at Huddersfield and it's sort of run to the end of the year and it
00:36:43 just, not for the first time, it looks a bit of a time where they're going to have to dig
00:36:48 in a little bit and hopefully chisel out a few wins. Obviously Darren Moore's been brawling
00:36:54 for the long term but in the here and now I had a look the other day and I think the
00:37:03 three points better off than they were at this stage last year so that's not a real
00:37:08 lot is it, considering it was a season which was pretty well a season long battle against
00:37:17 relegation. The worry for me with Huddersfield is that they've got one or two injuries at
00:37:25 the minute, if they get a couple more, say a Jack Radony or a Mikkel Helle, some of the
00:37:33 big players, there just looks deficiencies in that squad underneath. That's not disrespecting
00:37:40 a lot of the players there, it's just they haven't got those championship miles on the
00:37:47 clock and I think it will be, I mentioned January earlier, I think it could be of key
00:37:54 importance to Huddersfield, especially if they're in this similar area of the table,
00:38:01 just above the relegation zone, they're going to have to do some work. They didn't do a
00:38:09 great deal in the summer, I think they only bought in four or five players and a couple
00:38:13 of players on loan, Bergson came in on loan. In terms of the main buys, Ben Wiles aside,
00:38:23 that's pretty much about it. They brought a back-up keeper as well in Maxwell. But they
00:38:30 look aside to me, look a bit short in terms of the squad options, in terms of that championship
00:38:38 mouse. For me it's a big time in the season, a big test of the metal and character going
00:38:47 into Leeds after what happened in midweek and not too many people saw that coming to
00:38:53 be fair. It looked a decent-ish game after getting the three points against QPR, Cardiff
00:39:00 and Soda, had a pretty good start to the season but one or two signs that they were fading
00:39:06 off a little bit. So that was a real shock to the system and a big test for them at Leeds.
00:39:12 I suppose if they need any incentive they might want to take a look at how Sheffield
00:39:18 Wednesday approached it at the end of the summer. You saw a thing at Huddersfield, trying
00:39:26 to take on Leeds, they might get their fingers burnt a little bit. I think the bigger picture
00:39:32 is they've just got to provide themselves with some results to lift confidence in the
00:39:41 start to the winter. That was a bruising result in midweek, I think it's six points out of
00:39:47 18. It's got Darren Moore and we've spoken about it before in the podcast. The fear was
00:39:54 that if there weren't enough results early on, you get the music in the background saying
00:40:01 'why did we get worn out?' It's not as simplistic as that but that will be there, won't it?
00:40:08 Stuart's right to say that psychologically it will be an important game for them on Saturday
00:40:15 at Leeds United.
00:40:17 I think the thing that alarmed me, and maybe I'm reading too much into one game, but Leon's
00:40:24 right, there isn't much depth in that squad. But that's the reality. There isn't much quality
00:40:31 but that's the reality of how much they had to spend in the transfer market in the summer.
00:40:38 But if you told me that a squad with Jonathan Hogg in it, with Matty Pearson in it, with
00:40:44 Mikael Helic in it, with Tom Leeds in it, albeit he's been injured and not played many
00:40:49 minutes, under Darren Moore. If you told me a squad with those players, this is something
00:40:53 I referred to when Neil Warnock came in, would be mentally weak, that would worry me. That
00:40:59 should be the one given with that squad. For all the other deficiencies, there's some tough
00:41:04 characters in that squad. They looked fragile that night. They looked too easily beaten
00:41:11 by what was a bit of a fluke, you know, backheel bouncing off Matty Pearson going into the
00:41:17 goal. Just looked to do too much damage to them psychologically. And I say with the players
00:41:24 in that squad, that shouldn't be happening. They should be tougher than that. You know,
00:41:30 the flip side of having such a difficult game against Leeds United on Saturday is that if
00:41:35 they win it, that could do huge amounts for their self-belief. But from somewhere, they
00:41:42 need to do a better job between the ears, frankly. Because the other deficiencies are
00:41:51 kind of unavoidable, at least until the January transfer window opens. But that is the sort
00:41:59 of squad you should really want to have rolling their sleeves up for you with characters like
00:42:06 that in it. And you know, I say they got stuck in and they were very resolute at Sheffield
00:42:15 Wednesday in that game. It's not that they haven't got it in them, but it just seemed
00:42:19 to be too easily knocked out of them on that night. And I hope that was just a one-off.
00:42:26 But for me watching it, it was quite an alarming thing to see on the night.
00:42:31 I think as well with these three game weeks, they do test you mentally, physically and
00:42:38 in terms of your options as well. When there are deficiencies in the squad, it just makes
00:42:45 it that bit harder, doesn't it? He's tried to freshen things up a little bit against
00:42:52 Cardiff, but it just didn't work, did it? I suppose the good thing in some respects
00:42:58 is you look at November and it's pretty much Saturday until the end of the break as well.
00:43:05 But they've got a few weeks where it's Saturday to Saturday happening at Huddersfield now.
00:43:09 And maybe that'll give them that bit of extra time on the training ground. Just looking
00:43:20 at what Huddersfield have got at the minute, they're one of the clubs that three game weeks
00:43:26 look to be a bit of a problem and it's hard to get consistency.
00:43:34 That's an excellent point by Leon. Just to back that up, I saw them lose 4-0 at home
00:43:40 to Norwich the last time they lost 4-0 at home. And then straight after that, they had
00:43:45 a Saturday-Saturday week and they won both those games. They beat West Brom and Rotherham.
00:43:50 Perhaps they should have taken more into account that very good point about three game weeks.
00:43:58 That is definitely a factor. You just wanted to see them grit their way through it a bit more.
00:44:06 I think that was the thing for me. But as Leon says, that is partly a consequence of
00:44:13 how short they've left themselves as a squad. And again, relying on these characters who
00:44:21 have got that sort of toughness in them. But inevitably, because of their age, it's harder
00:44:27 for them to reproduce their best form twice in 90 minutes.
00:44:34 So hopefully next week we're sat here and you're saying to me, "What were you fussing about?"
00:44:42 Just on the night, it was quite striking and quite alarming.
00:44:47 I think they'll probably be grateful for small-med mercies to it in the respect that it's a toughen-up game.
00:44:53 Whenever you go into LNR, West Yorkshire, Derby, they have had a day extra to prepare them.
00:45:03 Obviously, their squad options are stronger than Huddersfield, but they've got the end of the wedge in the respect that
00:45:14 they were the last game on against in the Wednesday night programme and they're there.
00:45:20 And they're first out on Saturday lunchtime. But given what they've got in their armoury,
00:45:27 Huddersfield won't be reading too much into that. Leeds have got the depth to bring top championship players back.
00:45:40 Huddersfield will at least be glad that they've had the day's preparation time after a hammering like that.
00:45:51 Darren Moore should at least be happy with that.
00:45:55 And he knows a thing or two about recovering from poor non-defeats as well, of course.
00:46:00 True enough.
00:46:03 Next we turn to Ligue 1 and Barnsley, who had to settle for a point after playing out a 1-1 draw when they welcomed
00:46:09 Leighton Orient to Oakwell. Even though they salvaged a draw, they also went down to 10 men when substitute Sam Cosgrove
00:46:16 was sent off for two bookable offences. This was then followed by a 3-0 victory when the Tikes welcomed Shrewsbury Town.
00:46:24 What did you make of the two results and how did they approach their upcoming game against Fleetwood Leon?
00:46:31 I think first of all, there was, you've got to say, a bit of karma for Barnsley. Not just Neil Collins, but his predecessor
00:46:41 Michael Dock, who laboured long and hard about the fact that Barnsley were getting the thin end of the wedge in terms of penalty decisions.
00:46:50 It had almost become a bit of a running joke. I think they only got one last season and that was, I can't remember,
00:47:00 I think it was at Forest Green and I think it was either missed or they scored at Rheabhan, I can't quite remember.
00:47:07 In terms of penalties at Oakwell, I know that they got one in the cup last season against Prew, because I covered that game,
00:47:14 but they hadn't until Tuesday night's game against Shrewsbury, they hadn't had one at home in the league for, I think it was March 2022,
00:47:25 which is something like, I think it was 33, 34 games. So, crikey, it's a long time between drinks, wasn't it?
00:47:33 They had a dodgy penalty awarded against them at Lake Norie for a bit of context on Saturday, a handball against Jamie McCar which looked a bit of a soft one.
00:47:47 On the flip side, they had a bit of a soft one themselves on Tuesday, a drive from Barry Cotter, it was a ferocious drive and it hit the arm of Carmel Winchester,
00:48:00 the Shrewsbury player, and it didn't look too much intent there. It did look harsh and obviously Barnsley in their position,
00:48:07 they're not going to look a gift house in the mouth given the lack of penalties they've had.
00:48:12 So, a little bit of rub of the green there and also, ironically enough, a few minutes later there was an incident at the other end,
00:48:22 having seen a replay, you'd see them giving when a Shrewsbury player, his shirt was tugged by Maile Di Ravinji
00:48:33 and that could have been a penalty very easily for Shrewsbury. Barnsley go up the other end and score, make it 2-0 and that was pretty much the game.
00:48:46 So, there'll be relief and a sense of maybe the clock was round at last after getting the penalty and I think more importantly,
00:48:57 we've spoken about Hull with their home form and Barnsley's form has been patchy this season.
00:49:07 I think they were so good in the second half of last season, I think they won 8 or 9 in a row and going into the game on Tuesday,
00:49:16 they'd lost four of the first six and a few questions being asked and to be fair, with respect to Shrewsbury and respect also to the side that Barnsley play on Saturday at home in Fleetwood,
00:49:30 they're the games that if you are serious about being among the movers and shakers at the top of the division in League One,
00:49:37 you've got to negotiate and win and Barnsley were good at that last season amongst other things.
00:49:44 So, it was pleasing on that count, a professional performance against Shrewsbury,
00:49:53 there was some good stuff going forward in the first half, the second half was a bit more game management and seeing it out.
00:50:00 So, it was a step in the right direction, if they can get a win against Fleetwood on Saturday,
00:50:06 we'll quiet any talk about the home issues for the time being.
00:50:14 It was a good night for Barnsley, Oxford in second place, they slipped up, so that gaps down a little bit.
00:50:24 I think all things considered, they're in a decent place, very strong away from home at the minute.
00:50:34 All things considered, great start for Neil Collins, but I think in their evolution, looking forward,
00:50:44 looking at the wins this season, they haven't really had a scout in inverted commas.
00:50:51 They've played a few of the bigger sides, but other sides tipped to do well in League One and they've come up a little bit short.
00:50:57 I think the Peterborough game at home, they were beaten, Paul Smith as well.
00:51:04 I think that's going to be the next step for Barnsley, they've got an away game at Derby not too far down the line.
00:51:14 I think they're doing pretty well and he can be pleased Neil Collins after coming in relatively late in the summer,
00:51:26 but he didn't have too much preparation going into the season.
00:51:29 Barnsley lost one or two big players as well, they've got that out of the system.
00:51:34 Other players, and they've still got plenty of quality there, especially in midfield.
00:51:39 One or two of the summer signings are stepping up as well.
00:51:44 I think if you look, really, since the back-to-back defeats they had at the end of August against Peterborough and Oxford at home,
00:51:53 if you look at their record since then, it's pretty good.
00:51:57 Well, it's better than pretty good, it's very good.
00:52:00 There's been a couple of defeats in their draw at Leighton Orient, but by and large,
00:52:06 for a League One side playing a lot of those three game weeks that we just talked about, it's been pretty consistent.
00:52:14 We talked about the time it has taken Liam Rossini to lay a foundation at home.
00:52:22 Obviously, Neil Collins had most of that foundation laid for him by Michael Duff,
00:52:28 but nevertheless, any new manager needs a bit of time to get to grips with things.
00:52:35 Like Duff last season, it's been quite impressive how quickly Collins has got to grips with this team
00:52:43 and got it performing by and large, I think, how he would like it to.
00:52:48 As Leon says, there's still milestones to be achieved, but we have to remember this is October in Season 1.
00:52:57 As Leon said, not even a full pre-season for Collins.
00:53:02 I think there's always things you can strive to do better.
00:53:06 There is if you're Manchester City, never mind if you're third in League One.
00:53:10 But I think the general direction of travel for Barnsley at the moment is very good.
00:53:17 Again, if you'd have said to Barnsley fans in the summer, "You're going to lose Michael Duff,
00:53:26 but in spite of that, you're going to be third in League One by the time the Knights start drawing in,"
00:53:33 I think you'd take that every day of the week.
00:53:37 As I say, of course there's still things to work on, but they're in a good place right now.
00:53:47 I think as well, just to quickly say that I have mentioned that Barnsley have not yet beaten some of the better sides in League One.
00:53:59 I think it's important also to say, whether Stuart agrees with me or not,
00:54:03 it doesn't look as strong this season as League One.
00:54:07 Again, we just have to look at the teams that are in there.
00:54:10 There's obviously Ipswich have gone, Plymouth, Sheffield, Wensley, three pretty big clubs at this level.
00:54:18 The overall strength, even the year before, I remember off the top of my head,
00:54:24 I think Plymouth missed out on the playoffs with about 79 points or 80 points.
00:54:29 That was another strong group.
00:54:33 There's one or two decent sides here. I've mentioned Peter, Rupert, Portsmouth, Oxford, you know, Bolt as well.
00:54:40 But I think in terms of the overall strength, it's not as strong as it was last year.
00:54:45 Even a big club like Derby, they're having issues, aren't they, at the minute.
00:54:49 So, if all things considered, Barnsley can get through, talking about January again,
00:54:54 get to January and not have too many bumps in the road. They've had a few in the past, unfortunately.
00:55:00 But if it's reasonably steady and they have a decent run on the injury front,
00:55:09 they've had a little bit of an issue this week with Liam Roberts out with a finger operation.
00:55:16 So, it's tough. If there's not too many issues in that regard and they can have a steady window,
00:55:22 I wouldn't say they're eschewing for the top six, but I think they'd be pretty disappointed if they didn't get in.
00:55:29 Yeah, I think we talked before about that division being a division of two divisions, if that's not using the same word too often.
00:55:36 But as Leon said, with the teams leaving, there's probably as many big names in their division this season.
00:55:43 But as you just alluded to, Derby aren't punching their weight.
00:55:47 Wigan and Reading, with all their financial problems and the points deductions that have come with it,
00:55:53 they're not the force you might expect them to be if you just looked at their name.
00:55:57 Charlton are plodding along in the mid-table at the moment.
00:56:04 So, I do agree with Leon, it's not quite as intimidating a division as it was.
00:56:10 But even if it was, Barnsley showed last season that that doesn't mean anything to Barnsley.
00:56:17 They get on with their job and just max out and other clubs go through their soap operas.
00:56:26 So, it's quite impressive the way that they haven't been...
00:56:29 People always talk about player final hangovers and it's definitely significant.
00:56:35 But on top of that, they haven't been derailed by losing Michael Duff,
00:56:40 by losing really big players like Anderson and Kitching and James Norwood.
00:56:47 They've just kept a steady head, stuck to what they need to do.
00:56:52 And that is the thing in that division, where there's so many clubs with so much expectation on them,
00:56:57 sometimes it's the clubs that just get their head down and get on with it
00:57:01 and don't mither about the fact that they don't have the same money or the same pulling power or the same crowds or whatever it is.
00:57:08 If you just concentrate on what you've got and making the most of it,
00:57:13 that's what Barnsley have been very good at in a lot of the recent seasons, let's put it that way.
00:57:20 And it looks like being a strength for them again.
00:57:23 And just quickly, I think it's worth giving the board some credit. They've had some stick in the path, from me included.
00:57:31 Quite a few of their appointments, in terms of the head coach, haven't been particularly joined up.
00:57:39 You've sort of been there scratching your head and the likes of...
00:57:44 Without singling out, but I'll say him anyway, Mark Shot.
00:57:47 That just didn't seem to make sense after Ismail went right to us as well.
00:57:53 You sort of start scratching your head a little bit.
00:57:55 This one looked a bit joined up, didn't it?
00:57:59 And all credit to them for that and credit to Neil Collins as well.
00:58:03 In his first job in England, he's made a nice start, assisted by John Stead.
00:58:12 And they've shown plenty of promise.
00:58:17 And now finally, before we go, we turn to our new section where I'll be asking Stuart and Leon for their player and team of the week.
00:58:26 So let's start with Stuart first. Which team caught your eye this week?
00:58:31 And then we'll go to Leon to see which player caught his attention.
00:58:36 I think for me, in terms of the team, it's got to be Middlesbrough.
00:58:40 I saw Middlesbrough at Sheffield Wednesday in mid-September.
00:58:46 And they looked, all the things I was saying about Huddersfield before, like Sheffield Wednesday,
00:58:51 they just looked utterly bereft of confidence.
00:58:54 They were having a really difficult start to the season.
00:58:57 They were having that play-off hangover, perhaps, that I just talked about.
00:59:01 Although, to be fair, they'd ended the season generally a bit poorly and maybe it was that carrying over.
00:59:07 And they just looked in a bit of a bad way and they haven't looked back since.
00:59:11 They've won seven games on the trot since, in all competitions.
00:59:16 They're only outside of the play-offs on goal difference.
00:59:21 I said it earlier in the podcast, I'll say it again, it just shows that at times you just need to show a bit of patience.
00:59:29 I think Michael Carrick needed to show he could get through it at a difficult time.
00:59:35 It's a massive feather in his cap that he's just kept his nerve.
00:59:41 He's not an easy man to foster, Michael Carrick.
00:59:44 Stuck to what he believed in.
00:59:47 And Middlesbrough look a completely different prospect now.
00:59:52 They look like the team I think we all expected them to be in August.
00:59:58 It's taken them maybe six weeks into the season or something like that.
01:00:03 But now they are the Middlesbrough we kind of expected.
01:00:08 And it's great to see the way he's turned things around.
01:00:12 I think you look at Middlesbrough at the start of the season, you could labour the point at them that maybe they threw one or two of the new signings in a little bit too quickly.
01:00:26 They've got quite a few project players, if you like, the Selvares of this world and Morgan Rodgers.
01:00:32 They were bloodied early and they had it tough in the first month or so.
01:00:38 It's not that unusual, isn't it, when you're not really a championship, acclimatised player.
01:00:45 They have had the issues there, but fair play. They've sort of come through that.
01:00:54 I think the impressive thing as well is they're having quite a few injuries to contend with as well.
01:01:00 There's a big signing in respect to the summer window in Lewis O'Brien.
01:01:07 He's going to be out for the first spell with an ankle injury.
01:01:11 Darrell Lennarton's out at the minute. Tommy Smith has got a bad injury as well.
01:01:16 There's talk of him not being available for the rest of the season.
01:01:20 Riley McGree as well. Obviously, they've got this momentum. I think that win against Southampton was a huge win, wasn't it?
01:01:30 Just to get them rolling again after the Sheffield Reds' draw, getting that first win.
01:01:38 Some of these players that struggled at the start of the season are finding their legs a little bit.
01:01:44 Now we come to you, Leon. Which player has caught your eye in particular this week?
01:01:52 I'll probably say more because I was there on Tuesday. I had to put my hand up for De'Vante Cole.
01:01:59 I thought he was a real... A lot of players got applauded last season for Barnsley.
01:02:08 They shared the load. Mads Andersen, Liam Kitchen, Luca Connell who was tremendous.
01:02:15 I think it's important to remember as well that he's got to come back into play for Barnsley.
01:02:21 De'Vante Cole was a real success story last season. He's getting to that age now.
01:02:27 That seniority is 28, 29. I always had this tag of being a bit of a journeyman going from club to club.
01:02:37 He showed the sporadic elements of his potential but struggled for consistency.
01:02:44 He's really found a home at Barnsley. 16 goals last season. He got into double figures for this season.
01:02:53 We're still in before the clocks go back. That's no mean feat.
01:02:58 He scored a lovely goal. He started and finished a really polished move.
01:03:03 Excellent assist for the second goal. He totally hoodwinked Shea Duncliffe, Shrewsbury's captain who was at Sheffield Wednesday for a time.
01:03:14 Made him look a bit of a mug and pretty unselfishly set up Callum Stiles.
01:03:20 He's just looking a really good all-round player at the top of the game and a leader as well.
01:03:29 He showed some lovely touches in his league play. His decision when to press was very good.
01:03:39 I think the responsibility is sitting well on his shoulders.
01:03:45 I suppose the element in the room is the fact that his contract is up next summer.
01:03:53 One or two clubs had a look at him from what I can gather at the end of the summer window.
01:03:59 If Cole does carry on as he's doing, you'd expect some more concrete interest in January.
01:04:06 Barnsley's squad is decent but a little part of me worries if they do lose it with respect to what they've got.
01:04:15 In terms of the squad, he looks to be the one player that they would struggle to lose at the minute.
01:04:21 Hopefully not. Hopefully he can carry on in the vein that he's been doing and he can stay at Barnsley.
01:04:29 He looks happy and a focused player. He was outstanding in midweek.
01:04:36 He's looking a real leader and it's been great to see his progress over the last season and a bit.
01:04:42 I think that's the big word, isn't it? Leader.
01:04:46 We mentioned all the players that have been sold to have lost Luca Canel to this illness as well.
01:04:51 The ten goals just spell it out. It's the way he's stood up and taken leadership that's so impressive.
01:04:59 Great to see. Long may it continue.
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